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Meatead
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Posted - 2004.08.12 15:14:00 -
[1]
I mean really? are all minmater bs pilots just pushing their toys out of the pram because they want to be the best bs? I dont think so.
Would be nice to see a dev actually look into the balance on the t2 bs atm rather than just hiding under a rock saying there is no problem. Sure you guys are probably swamped with problems/bugs/new content/code updates etc but it is plain to see that the number of minmater actually flying tempests now is so low that unless the situation is adjusted the few remaining die hards will just learn other races bs - where is the specialisation in that? do you really just want everyone flying around in the 'flavour of the month' bs?
We are not asking to make the tempest an uber ship - or a clone of any other of the racial t2 bs - but throw us a bone here dammit - worst tanker, worst dot, least in everything.
Its any wonder that the minmater arent still slaves.
Why should minmater pilots have to train up other racial bs just to compete? the other races dont have to.
At least say you are looking into it - rather than just ignoring that there could be a problem.
If at the end of the day you still dont think there is a problem or that minmater bs are working as intended and competitive then at least you have listened and re-evaluated.
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Meatead
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Posted - 2004.08.12 15:14:00 -
[2]
I mean really? are all minmater bs pilots just pushing their toys out of the pram because they want to be the best bs? I dont think so.
Would be nice to see a dev actually look into the balance on the t2 bs atm rather than just hiding under a rock saying there is no problem. Sure you guys are probably swamped with problems/bugs/new content/code updates etc but it is plain to see that the number of minmater actually flying tempests now is so low that unless the situation is adjusted the few remaining die hards will just learn other races bs - where is the specialisation in that? do you really just want everyone flying around in the 'flavour of the month' bs?
We are not asking to make the tempest an uber ship - or a clone of any other of the racial t2 bs - but throw us a bone here dammit - worst tanker, worst dot, least in everything.
Its any wonder that the minmater arent still slaves.
Why should minmater pilots have to train up other racial bs just to compete? the other races dont have to.
At least say you are looking into it - rather than just ignoring that there could be a problem.
If at the end of the day you still dont think there is a problem or that minmater bs are working as intended and competitive then at least you have listened and re-evaluated.
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Lysender
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Posted - 2004.08.12 15:35:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Lysender on 12/08/2004 15:37:40 The Tempest is still a pretty decent shield tanker. The long range Damage needs to be looked at is all.
Edit: The cpu could use an upgrade of 50 to.
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Lysender
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Posted - 2004.08.12 15:35:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Lysender on 12/08/2004 15:37:40 The Tempest is still a pretty decent shield tanker. The long range Damage needs to be looked at is all.
Edit: The cpu could use an upgrade of 50 to.
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reaTh
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Posted - 2004.08.12 15:41:00 -
[5]
signed all where asking is to sort 1400s out abit there unusable atm where not asking for shot like this again 2004.07.08 21:41:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Nullifier, wrecking for 1171.1 damage. but atlest give use 80-90% of the tachyons dmg plz im dieing here ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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reaTh
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Posted - 2004.08.12 15:41:00 -
[6]
signed all where asking is to sort 1400s out abit there unusable atm where not asking for shot like this again 2004.07.08 21:41:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Nullifier, wrecking for 1171.1 damage. but atlest give use 80-90% of the tachyons dmg plz im dieing here ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Lysender
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Posted - 2004.08.12 15:50:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Lysender on 12/08/2004 15:52:29 I don't even use tachs, I have large lasers to L5 along with amarr BS L4. But Tempests were always known for there long range Damage and now they're nerfed. I would say 70% of the Damage of tachs would be nice. Tachs use ALLOT of Cap and 1400's use very little. Perhaps lowering the ROF instead of raising the Damage would be better. That also would off set the changes a bit.
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Lysender
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Posted - 2004.08.12 15:50:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lysender on 12/08/2004 15:52:29 I don't even use tachs, I have large lasers to L5 along with amarr BS L4. But Tempests were always known for there long range Damage and now they're nerfed. I would say 70% of the Damage of tachs would be nice. Tachs use ALLOT of Cap and 1400's use very little. Perhaps lowering the ROF instead of raising the Damage would be better. That also would off set the changes a bit.
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.08.12 16:20:00 -
[9]
It does not need a CPU boost. maybe some slight improve but only a really small one and definately not a cpu or grid boost. rather a 5.1% more damage per level instead of 5, something like that
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.08.12 16:20:00 -
[10]
It does not need a CPU boost. maybe some slight improve but only a really small one and definately not a cpu or grid boost. rather a 5.1% more damage per level instead of 5, something like that
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Zu Lu
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Posted - 2004.08.12 16:37:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hellek It does not need a CPU boost. maybe some slight improve but only a really small one and definately not a cpu or grid boost. rather a 5.1% more damage per level instead of 5, something like that
You can't deny that cpu fitting with long range set up has been nerfed on a tempest with having to use pdu's cos of cap relay nerf and having to fit cruie/siege to fire cruise missiles. Other ships got cpu changed - why not the tempest ?
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Zu Lu
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Posted - 2004.08.12 16:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hellek It does not need a CPU boost. maybe some slight improve but only a really small one and definately not a cpu or grid boost. rather a 5.1% more damage per level instead of 5, something like that
You can't deny that cpu fitting with long range set up has been nerfed on a tempest with having to use pdu's cos of cap relay nerf and having to fit cruie/siege to fire cruise missiles. Other ships got cpu changed - why not the tempest ?
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Nieda
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Posted - 2004.08.12 16:58:00 -
[13]
Lower RoF on projectiles across the border. It will help our DoT. Increase 1400's tracking a bit too. Stuff like that. --------------------------------------------- 2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage. |
Nieda
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Posted - 2004.08.12 16:58:00 -
[14]
Lower RoF on projectiles across the border. It will help our DoT. Increase 1400's tracking a bit too. Stuff like that. --------------------------------------------- 2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage. |
Jennae
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Posted - 2004.08.12 17:17:00 -
[15]
God. whats up with all these 1400's users. Am I the only one using a tempest for close range?
Anyway, I think close range A/C's need a looking at also. My current setup is either 6x800mm with missiles, or 3x800 and 3xd650s and 2 nosferatus. -(mostly gallium 800s)-
Either way, I challenged a friend in an armor tanked Armageddon, and I CANNOT kill him. We did a trial where he did nothing but run his single repairer and hardeners (exp, kin, therm), and I just pounded away at him. I used over 1000 EMP ammo and 50 cruise missiles, and didnt get him below 50%. Everytime I started to make a little bit of progress, I had to reload, and his repairer caught back up. Imagine if he was running a pair of repairers like most PvP ships do, there would be NO way I could even touch that.
When we go at it full on, I need a pair of repairers just to soak up the dmg that his megapulses dish out, and still barely cope. This doesn't seem balanced too me. I'm not gunna sit here and bash, I just don't see how this can be right, for a T2 battleship loaded for max DOT to not be able to finish off a T1 BS with only a single repairer.
Does anyone else have this problem with close range autocannons?
-My skills are Min BS 3, lrg Prj turret 4, and all other gunnery skills to 3 or 4. I know my skills aren't maxed, but I don't think a couple 5% or 3%'s are gunna make TOO big of a difference in this situation. I'm also always running a gyro II, and the rest of lows used on tanking.
Thanks, jenn
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Jennae
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Posted - 2004.08.12 17:17:00 -
[16]
God. whats up with all these 1400's users. Am I the only one using a tempest for close range?
Anyway, I think close range A/C's need a looking at also. My current setup is either 6x800mm with missiles, or 3x800 and 3xd650s and 2 nosferatus. -(mostly gallium 800s)-
Either way, I challenged a friend in an armor tanked Armageddon, and I CANNOT kill him. We did a trial where he did nothing but run his single repairer and hardeners (exp, kin, therm), and I just pounded away at him. I used over 1000 EMP ammo and 50 cruise missiles, and didnt get him below 50%. Everytime I started to make a little bit of progress, I had to reload, and his repairer caught back up. Imagine if he was running a pair of repairers like most PvP ships do, there would be NO way I could even touch that.
When we go at it full on, I need a pair of repairers just to soak up the dmg that his megapulses dish out, and still barely cope. This doesn't seem balanced too me. I'm not gunna sit here and bash, I just don't see how this can be right, for a T2 battleship loaded for max DOT to not be able to finish off a T1 BS with only a single repairer.
Does anyone else have this problem with close range autocannons?
-My skills are Min BS 3, lrg Prj turret 4, and all other gunnery skills to 3 or 4. I know my skills aren't maxed, but I don't think a couple 5% or 3%'s are gunna make TOO big of a difference in this situation. I'm also always running a gyro II, and the rest of lows used on tanking.
Thanks, jenn
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:06:00 -
[17]
hey look! over here! more tempest users whining that theyre ship isnt the best anymore!
for a long time, everyone had to use the tempest to have a chance, cause it was far and away the best ship (i didnt, cause its ugly as hell... but i had to try to never have to fight a temp, or i'd have got wasted). now its not. live with it. its not that bad. just try to adapt like everyone else has. (oh, and lowest DoT award goes to scorpion btw, not tempest.)
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:06:00 -
[18]
hey look! over here! more tempest users whining that theyre ship isnt the best anymore!
for a long time, everyone had to use the tempest to have a chance, cause it was far and away the best ship (i didnt, cause its ugly as hell... but i had to try to never have to fight a temp, or i'd have got wasted). now its not. live with it. its not that bad. just try to adapt like everyone else has. (oh, and lowest DoT award goes to scorpion btw, not tempest.)
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Sarinas
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Shimatu hey look! over here! more tempest users whining that theyre ship isnt the best anymore!
Hey look! Over here! Another clueless person who has most likely never flown a Tempest in its current state and doesn't know what he's talking about!
Quote: now its not. live with it. its not that bad. just try to adapt like everyone else has.
Yes, it is bad. I won't repeat what Meatead said. I'm not quite sure myself what exactly is wrong with the Tempest, I'm thinking it either needs a bit more CPU, or a bit more powergrid, or a somewhat faster capacitor recharge rate, nothing big in any case, but something nonetheless. This is not about making it the best, just simple balance.
Quote: (oh, and lowest DoT award goes to scorpion btw, not tempest.)
I think we're talking about T2 battleships here, thus the Scorp is right out. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain. |
Sarinas
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shimatu hey look! over here! more tempest users whining that theyre ship isnt the best anymore!
Hey look! Over here! Another clueless person who has most likely never flown a Tempest in its current state and doesn't know what he's talking about!
Quote: now its not. live with it. its not that bad. just try to adapt like everyone else has.
Yes, it is bad. I won't repeat what Meatead said. I'm not quite sure myself what exactly is wrong with the Tempest, I'm thinking it either needs a bit more CPU, or a bit more powergrid, or a somewhat faster capacitor recharge rate, nothing big in any case, but something nonetheless. This is not about making it the best, just simple balance.
Quote: (oh, and lowest DoT award goes to scorpion btw, not tempest.)
I think we're talking about T2 battleships here, thus the Scorp is right out. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain. |
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Meatead
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:30:00 -
[21]
would really like to keep the thread as clean as possible so that a dev can take us seriously.
and yes, this is specifically aimed at tweakage in balancing on all t2 bs.
Changes have occurred over the past months to nerf various things which has meant the steady decline of the tempest...in fact it almost feels like a t1 bs now - so hey, why not just make up a story talking about how minmaters have stolen the bps from their former masters for the apoc bs - and then replace apoc as the minmater t2 bs...problem sorted heh.....
.....walks away mumbling to himself
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Meatead
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:30:00 -
[22]
would really like to keep the thread as clean as possible so that a dev can take us seriously.
and yes, this is specifically aimed at tweakage in balancing on all t2 bs.
Changes have occurred over the past months to nerf various things which has meant the steady decline of the tempest...in fact it almost feels like a t1 bs now - so hey, why not just make up a story talking about how minmaters have stolen the bps from their former masters for the apoc bs - and then replace apoc as the minmater t2 bs...problem sorted heh.....
.....walks away mumbling to himself
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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:36:00 -
[23]
I think one reason they don't really do anything about it it's that they haven't _consciously_ nerfed the Tempest. So they don't see why anything's wrong with it. The problem is that when you have BIG patches that affect lots of things across the board (changes to falloff, changes to tracking, changes to launcher fitting requirements, changes to ship bonuses and powergrid ALL in one patch), stuff is bound to get thrown off balance. Balance is achieved by tuning things little by little.
Anyways, I guess the safest thing is to not specialize and always have a couple different ship skills so you can adapt to the current patch I actually have other races skills, but man I love my little junkheap of a Tempest. I love the boom the 1400's make.
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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:36:00 -
[24]
I think one reason they don't really do anything about it it's that they haven't _consciously_ nerfed the Tempest. So they don't see why anything's wrong with it. The problem is that when you have BIG patches that affect lots of things across the board (changes to falloff, changes to tracking, changes to launcher fitting requirements, changes to ship bonuses and powergrid ALL in one patch), stuff is bound to get thrown off balance. Balance is achieved by tuning things little by little.
Anyways, I guess the safest thing is to not specialize and always have a couple different ship skills so you can adapt to the current patch I actually have other races skills, but man I love my little junkheap of a Tempest. I love the boom the 1400's make.
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:37:00 -
[25]
The problem is not in the Tempest, the problem is projectile weapons.
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:37:00 -
[26]
The problem is not in the Tempest, the problem is projectile weapons.
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reaTh
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Diana Merris The problem is not in the Tempest, the problem is projectile weapons.
dam straight the temptest is fine i just that all projectile r f00ked espescially 1400s ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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reaTh
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Diana Merris The problem is not in the Tempest, the problem is projectile weapons.
dam straight the temptest is fine i just that all projectile r f00ked espescially 1400s ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Sarinas
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:48:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Sarinas on 12/08/2004 18:50:08 I'm not so sure the problem is with projectiles, actually. Last time I tried a Tempest, I had 6 1400mm guns with carbonized lead and I hit every single time against NPC battleships and cruisers. Well, using two T2 tracking enhancers, but still.
Or is the problem with DOT? 'Cause I remember it kinda sucked, but I assumed this was because I was using carbonized lead and I didn't bother to try another type of ammo. Best shot I got was a wrecking hit at 350-360 something, a couple of times, with two T2 gyros. I must say, though, that my gunnery skills are a bit lacking. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain. |
Sarinas
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Posted - 2004.08.12 18:48:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Sarinas on 12/08/2004 18:50:08 I'm not so sure the problem is with projectiles, actually. Last time I tried a Tempest, I had 6 1400mm guns with carbonized lead and I hit every single time against NPC battleships and cruisers. Well, using two T2 tracking enhancers, but still.
Or is the problem with DOT? 'Cause I remember it kinda sucked, but I assumed this was because I was using carbonized lead and I didn't bother to try another type of ammo. Best shot I got was a wrecking hit at 350-360 something, a couple of times, with two T2 gyros. I must say, though, that my gunnery skills are a bit lacking. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain. |
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