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Vordicae	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:16:00 - [91] DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT ! I spend god only knows how long maxing my PRojectile and piloting and engineering and other skills Needed to Fly the Tempest.. I have the BPC and the minerals in my hangar today .. do I bould it and hope the devs pay attention to this thread or spend all the rest of my time training a new race for which I don't get specific modifiers :( Damn you to hell ! ----------------------------------------------------- In space .. no-one can hear you munching crisps in the back seat of your Hauler ! ----------------------------------------------------- Show me the money
Vordicae	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:16:00 - [92] DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT ! I spend god only knows how long maxing my PRojectile and piloting and engineering and other skills Needed to Fly the Tempest.. I have the BPC and the minerals in my hangar today .. do I bould it and hope the devs pay attention to this thread or spend all the rest of my time training a new race for which I don't get specific modifiers :( Damn you to hell ! ----------------------------------------------------- In space .. no-one can hear you munching crisps in the back seat of your Hauler ! ----------------------------------------------------- Show me the money
Shade Widow	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:18:00 - [93] The guns on the tempest work I dont know what you are all doing wrong here? Are you shooting to close to far? Give me your tempests I was able to do good with one before dont see why not now. ---
Shade Widow	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:18:00 - [94] The guns on the tempest work I dont know what you are all doing wrong here? Are you shooting to close to far? Give me your tempests I was able to do good with one before dont see why not now. ---
Rob Mattacks	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:23:00 - [95] Edited by: Rob Mattacks on 13/08/2004 12:25:57 Originally by: Shade Widow Im not sure how you guys are getting such bad lucky. If I fight a npc spawn of cruisers and frigs my 720s have no trouble for hitting in the high damage range. This is with (no) tracking computer.... This thread is about the Tempest and BS's, 720mm' are cruiser guns. Anyway i too am frustrated at the current state of the Minmatar's capital ship. I am holding out atm cos i really wanna fly Minmatar ships and role-play but i have been pondering whether to train gallente/hybrid as overall their ships from interceptors through to bs seem much more useful. I also own a Typhoon and think that ship has been shafted with the recent patches. The performance of projectiles is one reason. The other is that it was given a grid boost but it doesn't compensate for the increase in grid for armor repairers and siege launchers. I used to able to run a 4x800mm 4 heavy launchers w/torps and 2 large armor repairers. Doing this now is impossible without gimping set up and even using dual 425mm's i still need an rcu and downgrading to cruise launchers is not an option i feel cos of the terrible ROF. When throw in a mwd and heavy cap booster it gets worse so basically the typhoon has taken a fitting nerf big time for close range armor tanking and long range armor tanking you can forget about really
Rob Mattacks	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:23:00 - [96] Edited by: Rob Mattacks on 13/08/2004 12:25:57 Originally by: Shade Widow Im not sure how you guys are getting such bad lucky. If I fight a npc spawn of cruisers and frigs my 720s have no trouble for hitting in the high damage range. This is with (no) tracking computer.... This thread is about the Tempest and BS's, 720mm' are cruiser guns. Anyway i too am frustrated at the current state of the Minmatar's capital ship. I am holding out atm cos i really wanna fly Minmatar ships and role-play but i have been pondering whether to train gallente/hybrid as overall their ships from interceptors through to bs seem much more useful. I also own a Typhoon and think that ship has been shafted with the recent patches. The performance of projectiles is one reason. The other is that it was given a grid boost but it doesn't compensate for the increase in grid for armor repairers and siege launchers. I used to able to run a 4x800mm 4 heavy launchers w/torps and 2 large armor repairers. Doing this now is impossible without gimping set up and even using dual 425mm's i still need an rcu and downgrading to cruise launchers is not an option i feel cos of the terrible ROF. When throw in a mwd and heavy cap booster it gets worse so basically the typhoon has taken a fitting nerf big time for close range armor tanking and long range armor tanking you can forget about really
Shade Widow	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:28:00 - [97] Well first thing 1400s werent designed to hit frigs and have trouble hitting cruisers. However if you seem to not be able to hit battleships at all? Then you must be doing something wrong ive used 1400s and its not like they cant hit a gigantic house moving towards you as long as your in the (right) range. ---
Shade Widow	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:28:00 - [98] Well first thing 1400s werent designed to hit frigs and have trouble hitting cruisers. However if you seem to not be able to hit battleships at all? Then you must be doing something wrong ive used 1400s and its not like they cant hit a gigantic house moving towards you as long as your in the (right) range. ---
Sarinas	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:33:00 - [99] Originally by: Shade Widow Well first thing 1400s werent designed to hit frigs and have trouble hitting cruisers. However if you seem to not be able to hit battleships at all? Then you must be doing something wrong ive used 1400s and its not like they cant hit a gigantic house moving towards you as long as your in the (right) range. When they hit, the damage sucks. So you use more powerful ammo but your optimal range is reduced, more than likely putting you within range of your target. So you start taking hits -- your damage, while somewhat better, still sucks, and you have trouble tanking, so you get taken down and die. Note that this is a somewhat exaggerated scenario but I feel it basically comes down to this. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain.
Sarinas	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:33:00 - [100] Originally by: Shade Widow Well first thing 1400s werent designed to hit frigs and have trouble hitting cruisers. However if you seem to not be able to hit battleships at all? Then you must be doing something wrong ive used 1400s and its not like they cant hit a gigantic house moving towards you as long as your in the (right) range. When they hit, the damage sucks. So you use more powerful ammo but your optimal range is reduced, more than likely putting you within range of your target. So you start taking hits -- your damage, while somewhat better, still sucks, and you have trouble tanking, so you get taken down and die. Note that this is a somewhat exaggerated scenario but I feel it basically comes down to this. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain.
Rob Mattacks	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:39:00 - [101] Originally by: Shade Widow Well first thing 1400s werent designed to hit frigs and have trouble hitting cruisers. However if you seem to not be able to hit battleships at all? Then you must be doing something wrong ive used 1400s and its not like they cant hit a gigantic house moving towards you as long as your in the (right) range. yes i know that but i was not talking about hitting frigs and cruisers. The 1400's hit other battleships but not as well as they used to tracking wise,the falloff has been nerfed, damage and wrecking shots has sunk, they are alot worse than they used to be sub 30km, other ships have been boosted, missile DOT has dropped, cap relays been nerfed and now much tighter for cpu with long range set up.
Rob Mattacks	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:39:00 - [102] Originally by: Shade Widow Well first thing 1400s werent designed to hit frigs and have trouble hitting cruisers. However if you seem to not be able to hit battleships at all? Then you must be doing something wrong ive used 1400s and its not like they cant hit a gigantic house moving towards you as long as your in the (right) range. yes i know that but i was not talking about hitting frigs and cruisers. The 1400's hit other battleships but not as well as they used to tracking wise,the falloff has been nerfed, damage and wrecking shots has sunk, they are alot worse than they used to be sub 30km, other ships have been boosted, missile DOT has dropped, cap relays been nerfed and now much tighter for cpu with long range set up.
Selim	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:41:00 - [103] Edited by: Selim on 13/08/2004 12:44:25 They cant hit a battleship half the time. When they do, its for measly 200 damage or so. The wrecking shots are pathetic, 800 damage? I get higher wrecks with lasers and hybrids. Which have higher damage over time. Tempest IS the most skill-intensive ship in game, it requires the most player skill intensive in addition to character skills. I trained for months to use a Tempest effectively and its just crap now. I do at least twice, if not more, damage with my apoc, can tank for far, FAR longer, and I only have the minimal skills to use it. I remember trying to kill a 500k battleship with my tempest. It was absolutely sad... I couldnt bring the guys shields down even half way. With both 1400s, and 1200s, and with EMP, Titanium Sabot (Good on guristas, supposedly) and the long range ones. Using autocannons, I burned through literally THOUSANDS of rounds before bringing the shields down. I had exhausted all the ammo in my cargo bay and had to withdraw. Projectiles working as intended? Bull. They were fine the old way, where they'd actually hit and for good damage. If 1400s missing a battleship at optimal and beyond half the time, and the other half the time doing 100 damage is your opinion of working as intended, then I rest my case. There is no getting through with you devs. If autocannons needing to burn thousands of rounds in order to kill something is your opinion of FINE... The Tempest is the worst tank out there, it NEEDS to be able to deal good damage. It has TWO damage modifiers on it yet the guns still are pitiful! It doesnt matter that the guns dont use cap! Hybrids and Lasers dont use much either, with all the skill bonuses, and they do loads more damage, per second, AND per shot. Make it better.
Selim	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:41:00 - [104] Edited by: Selim on 13/08/2004 12:44:25 They cant hit a battleship half the time. When they do, its for measly 200 damage or so. The wrecking shots are pathetic, 800 damage? I get higher wrecks with lasers and hybrids. Which have higher damage over time. Tempest IS the most skill-intensive ship in game, it requires the most player skill intensive in addition to character skills. I trained for months to use a Tempest effectively and its just crap now. I do at least twice, if not more, damage with my apoc, can tank for far, FAR longer, and I only have the minimal skills to use it. I remember trying to kill a 500k battleship with my tempest. It was absolutely sad... I couldnt bring the guys shields down even half way. With both 1400s, and 1200s, and with EMP, Titanium Sabot (Good on guristas, supposedly) and the long range ones. Using autocannons, I burned through literally THOUSANDS of rounds before bringing the shields down. I had exhausted all the ammo in my cargo bay and had to withdraw. Projectiles working as intended? Bull. They were fine the old way, where they'd actually hit and for good damage. If 1400s missing a battleship at optimal and beyond half the time, and the other half the time doing 100 damage is your opinion of working as intended, then I rest my case. There is no getting through with you devs. If autocannons needing to burn thousands of rounds in order to kill something is your opinion of FINE... The Tempest is the worst tank out there, it NEEDS to be able to deal good damage. It has TWO damage modifiers on it yet the guns still are pitiful! It doesnt matter that the guns dont use cap! Hybrids and Lasers dont use much either, with all the skill bonuses, and they do loads more damage, per second, AND per shot. Make it better.
Kalarin	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:42:00 - [105] Originally by: Shade Widow Well first thing 1400s werent designed to hit frigs and have trouble hitting cruisers. However if you seem to not be able to hit battleships at all? Are you can kill ANY BS with damage 40-60 from 800mm and 120-160 from 1400mm (Phased Plasma)? And a much of miss. Arma with 1 L armor rep can lightly compensate this "damage".
Kalarin	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:42:00 - [106] Originally by: Shade Widow Well first thing 1400s werent designed to hit frigs and have trouble hitting cruisers. However if you seem to not be able to hit battleships at all? Are you can kill ANY BS with damage 40-60 from 800mm and 120-160 from 1400mm (Phased Plasma)? And a much of miss. Arma with 1 L armor rep can lightly compensate this "damage".
Sarinas	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:47:00 - [107] Originally by: Selim I remember trying to kill a 500k battleship with my tempest. It was absolutely sad... I couldnt bring the guys shields down even half way. With both 1400s, and 1200s, and with EMP, Titanium Sabot (Good on guristas, supposedly) and the long range ones. Using autocannons, I burned through literally THOUSANDS of rounds before bringing the shields down. I had exhausted all the ammo in my cargo bay and had to withdraw. Similar story for me on Blood Raiders using 6x1400 w/ carbonized lead. I survived by having uber optimal range (~80km) and using an MWD to stay at that range. I was fighting a Shadow Sage (500k Arma) and managed to kill it without too much trouble. So I thought, yay, let's go for the bigger ones. I found myself a 750k (Apoc) and fought it for a good 15 minutes. I brought its shields down easily but then it armor tanked faster than I could damage it. I tried with more powerful ammo (phased plasma and EMP) and got owned in no time because I couldn't take the damage it was dealing. Oh, and all that was with 2 T2 tracking enhancers and 2 T2 gyros in my low slots. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain.
Sarinas	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:47:00 - [108] Originally by: Selim I remember trying to kill a 500k battleship with my tempest. It was absolutely sad... I couldnt bring the guys shields down even half way. With both 1400s, and 1200s, and with EMP, Titanium Sabot (Good on guristas, supposedly) and the long range ones. Using autocannons, I burned through literally THOUSANDS of rounds before bringing the shields down. I had exhausted all the ammo in my cargo bay and had to withdraw. Similar story for me on Blood Raiders using 6x1400 w/ carbonized lead. I survived by having uber optimal range (~80km) and using an MWD to stay at that range. I was fighting a Shadow Sage (500k Arma) and managed to kill it without too much trouble. So I thought, yay, let's go for the bigger ones. I found myself a 750k (Apoc) and fought it for a good 15 minutes. I brought its shields down easily but then it armor tanked faster than I could damage it. I tried with more powerful ammo (phased plasma and EMP) and got owned in no time because I couldn't take the damage it was dealing. Oh, and all that was with 2 T2 tracking enhancers and 2 T2 gyros in my low slots. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain.
Shade Widow	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:51:00 - [109] They must have really changed things then. I remember the tempest doing 400s on average and 1000 damage wrecks. ---
Shade Widow	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:51:00 - [110] They must have really changed things then. I remember the tempest doing 400s on average and 1000 damage wrecks. ---
Sarinas	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:54:00 - [111] Originally by: Shade Widow They must have really changed things then. I remember the tempest doing 400s on average and 1000 damage wrecks. Yeah... Not anymore. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain.
Sarinas	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:54:00 - [112] Originally by: Shade Widow They must have really changed things then. I remember the tempest doing 400s on average and 1000 damage wrecks. Yeah... Not anymore. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain.
Rob Mattacks	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:55:00 - [113] Originally by: Shade Widow They must have really changed things then. I remember the tempest doing 400s on average and 1000 damage wrecks. They have, that's what this thread is about
Rob Mattacks	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:55:00 - [114] Originally by: Shade Widow They must have really changed things then. I remember the tempest doing 400s on average and 1000 damage wrecks. They have, that's what this thread is about
Shade Widow	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:57:00 - [115] Edited by: Shade Widow on 13/08/2004 12:59:25 So it does 200 damage now? My incursus frigate does 140 wrecks with a light ion for sakes. with 800 wrecks? Is there a petition to sign? ---
Shade Widow	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:57:00 - [116] Edited by: Shade Widow on 13/08/2004 12:59:25 So it does 200 damage now? My incursus frigate does 140 wrecks with a light ion for sakes. with 800 wrecks? Is there a petition to sign? ---
Sarinas	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:59:00 - [117] Originally by: Shade Widow So it does 200 damage now? with 800 wrecks? Is there a petition to sign? Actually, the last wrecking I made with a 1400mm (w/ carbonized lead) was 350-360 something. Something between 350 and 400 anyway, but closer to 350 than to 400. My skills are a bit lacking but still... This blows hard. As for a petition, well, the devs have yet to acknowledge the issue. Several threads have been made about it and they all grew quite big, to no avail. There was a thread called "Tempest needs..." started by ProphetGuru that reached 15+ pages but I don't know where it went and can't be bothered to search for it. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain.
Sarinas	Posted - 2004.08.13 12:59:00 - [118] Originally by: Shade Widow So it does 200 damage now? with 800 wrecks? Is there a petition to sign? Actually, the last wrecking I made with a 1400mm (w/ carbonized lead) was 350-360 something. Something between 350 and 400 anyway, but closer to 350 than to 400. My skills are a bit lacking but still... This blows hard. As for a petition, well, the devs have yet to acknowledge the issue. Several threads have been made about it and they all grew quite big, to no avail. There was a thread called "Tempest needs..." started by ProphetGuru that reached 15+ pages but I don't know where it went and can't be bothered to search for it. --- I bring you joy, I bring you pain, I bring you some sunshine And some rain.
Deadflip2	Posted - 2004.08.13 13:06:00 - [119] they've held the scepter of great bss for a while, like anyone whos been about the best once they want to maintain that power --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!
Deadflip2	Posted - 2004.08.13 13:06:00 - [120] they've held the scepter of great bss for a while, like anyone whos been about the best once they want to maintain that power --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!

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