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Koris	Posted - 2004.08.16 14:25:00 - [61] Originally by: Al Thorr Imho - CCP trumpeted the the fact that they were getting new SQL servers... - It has taken them minimum of 7 weeks tweaking to get them to work with a modicum of stability ... and yet they have been proved to be not up to scratch --- even logging on takes longer and that was a so called "patch fix" for the older hardware. I take it that CCP that you have made your bed and we are lying / paying for it ? Again imho is your epitaph gonna be "bye bye eve - good game ...crap hardware support" Regards Al THorr I agree with what your saying here the lag is much worse than it was pre-hardware "upgrade". I personally thing they did get new more powerful hardware, but I think they over consolidated giving the smaller amount of new servers more load than the previous larger amount of old ones. So you end up right back where you started and possibly save a few bucks on your electric bill.
Koris	Posted - 2004.08.16 14:25:00 - [62] Originally by: Al Thorr Imho - CCP trumpeted the the fact that they were getting new SQL servers... - It has taken them minimum of 7 weeks tweaking to get them to work with a modicum of stability ... and yet they have been proved to be not up to scratch --- even logging on takes longer and that was a so called "patch fix" for the older hardware. I take it that CCP that you have made your bed and we are lying / paying for it ? Again imho is your epitaph gonna be "bye bye eve - good game ...crap hardware support" Regards Al THorr I agree with what your saying here the lag is much worse than it was pre-hardware "upgrade". I personally thing they did get new more powerful hardware, but I think they over consolidated giving the smaller amount of new servers more load than the previous larger amount of old ones. So you end up right back where you started and possibly save a few bucks on your electric bill.
Oveur	Posted - 2004.08.16 14:27:00 - [63] I have been absent so sorry for the late reply. This situation is well known, and if it was so easy to fix, we'd have done so already. What you are encountering is a number of bugs coinciding at the same time. We have fixes for a number of the ones described here (not seeing ships, criminal flagging, new load balancing code, better handling of cached data etc.) They'll be patched in 2 weeks time, but runtime rendering and client side lag is still the biggest factor in this. We beefed up all the server hardware, and they aren't even sweating. This is software related. The Shiva client has some fundamental core changes that is already delivering 20 more frames per second on my system (15-20 in castor vs. 40-50 in Shiva). This will probably be less of an increase when Shiva is ready but at least this gives an indication of what can be done in the cleint. The time and effort of porting this back to Castor would delay Shiva even more and I'm sure you would not like that. Us being present in all the battles do not help, we'd much rather have more log server logs of it happening sent to us. Mark them with when and in what system. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Oveur	Posted - 2004.08.16 14:27:00 - [64] I have been absent so sorry for the late reply. This situation is well known, and if it was so easy to fix, we'd have done so already. What you are encountering is a number of bugs coinciding at the same time. We have fixes for a number of the ones described here (not seeing ships, criminal flagging, new load balancing code, better handling of cached data etc.) They'll be patched in 2 weeks time, but runtime rendering and client side lag is still the biggest factor in this. We beefed up all the server hardware, and they aren't even sweating. This is software related. The Shiva client has some fundamental core changes that is already delivering 20 more frames per second on my system (15-20 in castor vs. 40-50 in Shiva). This will probably be less of an increase when Shiva is ready but at least this gives an indication of what can be done in the cleint. The time and effort of porting this back to Castor would delay Shiva even more and I'm sure you would not like that. Us being present in all the battles do not help, we'd much rather have more log server logs of it happening sent to us. Mark them with when and in what system. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Stuart Ward	Posted - 2004.08.16 14:41:00 - [65] Originally by: Oveur I have been absent so sorry for the late reply. This situation is well known, and if it was so easy to fix, we'd have done so already. What you are encountering is a number of bugs coinciding at the same time. We have fixes for a number of the ones described here (not seeing ships, criminal flagging, new load balancing code, better handling of cached data etc.) They'll be patched in 2 weeks time, but runtime rendering and client side lag is still the biggest factor in this. We beefed up all the server hardware, and they aren't even sweating. This is software related. The Shiva client has some fundamental core changes that is already delivering 20 more frames per second on my system (15-20 in castor vs. 40-50 in Shiva). This will probably be less of an increase when Shiva is ready but at least this gives an indication of what can be done in the cleint. The time and effort of porting this back to Castor would delay Shiva even more and I'm sure you would not like that. Us being present in all the battles do not help, we'd much rather have more log server logs of it happening sent to us. Mark them with when and in what system. So it is a known fault with the software and yet you still refuse to compensate ?
Stuart Ward	Posted - 2004.08.16 14:41:00 - [66] Originally by: Oveur I have been absent so sorry for the late reply. This situation is well known, and if it was so easy to fix, we'd have done so already. What you are encountering is a number of bugs coinciding at the same time. We have fixes for a number of the ones described here (not seeing ships, criminal flagging, new load balancing code, better handling of cached data etc.) They'll be patched in 2 weeks time, but runtime rendering and client side lag is still the biggest factor in this. We beefed up all the server hardware, and they aren't even sweating. This is software related. The Shiva client has some fundamental core changes that is already delivering 20 more frames per second on my system (15-20 in castor vs. 40-50 in Shiva). This will probably be less of an increase when Shiva is ready but at least this gives an indication of what can be done in the cleint. The time and effort of porting this back to Castor would delay Shiva even more and I'm sure you would not like that. Us being present in all the battles do not help, we'd much rather have more log server logs of it happening sent to us. Mark them with when and in what system. So it is a known fault with the software and yet you still refuse to compensate ?
Bhaal	Posted - 2004.08.16 15:16:00 - [67] Quote: So it is a known fault with the software and yet you still refuse to compensate ? I think compensation for lost items in an MMO due to bugs is too subjective... The only thing CCP should ever worry about compensating is lost skill points due to bugs... (Not dying without a proper clone) There would be too much effort wasted on CCP's part to scan through all the damn logs to see who gets what returned etc... Everyone knows that fleet battles is not a viable option in this game, I suspect it never will be... There will be a newer, better space MMO on the market before this gets fixed in EVE... I think players just have to enter these situations at thier own risk, and if ships & modules are lost due to lag, too bad, you knew that was a possibility ahead of time... I think CCP should implement an automatic client side graphics "cheese" mode... Meaning as more players enter a system, the graphic detail is lowerd automatically to compensate for the drop in FPS, and try to maintain a reasonable frame rate... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Bhaal	Posted - 2004.08.16 15:16:00 - [68] Quote: So it is a known fault with the software and yet you still refuse to compensate ? I think compensation for lost items in an MMO due to bugs is too subjective... The only thing CCP should ever worry about compensating is lost skill points due to bugs... (Not dying without a proper clone) There would be too much effort wasted on CCP's part to scan through all the damn logs to see who gets what returned etc... Everyone knows that fleet battles is not a viable option in this game, I suspect it never will be... There will be a newer, better space MMO on the market before this gets fixed in EVE... I think players just have to enter these situations at thier own risk, and if ships & modules are lost due to lag, too bad, you knew that was a possibility ahead of time... I think CCP should implement an automatic client side graphics "cheese" mode... Meaning as more players enter a system, the graphic detail is lowerd automatically to compensate for the drop in FPS, and try to maintain a reasonable frame rate... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Stuart Ward	Posted - 2004.08.16 15:40:00 - [69] Originally by: Bhaal Quote: So it is a known fault with the software and yet you still refuse to compensate ? I think compensation for lost items in an MMO due to bugs is too subjective... The only thing CCP should ever worry about compensating is lost skill points due to bugs... (Not dying without a proper clone) There would be too much effort wasted on CCP's part to scan through all the damn logs to see who gets what returned etc... Everyone knows that fleet battles is not a viable option in this game, I suspect it never will be... There will be a newer, better space MMO on the market before this gets fixed in EVE... I think players just have to enter these situations at thier own risk, and if ships & modules are lost due to lag, too bad, you knew that was a possibility ahead of time... I think CCP should implement an automatic client side graphics "cheese" mode... Meaning as more players enter a system, the graphic detail is lowerd automatically to compensate for the drop in FPS, and try to maintain a reasonable frame rate... the thing is you don;t even have to be in a fleet battle, simply jumping to a gate thats camped by more than 5-6 frigates can cause lag enough to be dead before you even see the enemy. And thats in a fast moving frig that should be able to break the blockade
Stuart Ward	Posted - 2004.08.16 15:40:00 - [70] Originally by: Bhaal Quote: So it is a known fault with the software and yet you still refuse to compensate ? I think compensation for lost items in an MMO due to bugs is too subjective... The only thing CCP should ever worry about compensating is lost skill points due to bugs... (Not dying without a proper clone) There would be too much effort wasted on CCP's part to scan through all the damn logs to see who gets what returned etc... Everyone knows that fleet battles is not a viable option in this game, I suspect it never will be... There will be a newer, better space MMO on the market before this gets fixed in EVE... I think players just have to enter these situations at thier own risk, and if ships & modules are lost due to lag, too bad, you knew that was a possibility ahead of time... I think CCP should implement an automatic client side graphics "cheese" mode... Meaning as more players enter a system, the graphic detail is lowerd automatically to compensate for the drop in FPS, and try to maintain a reasonable frame rate... the thing is you don;t even have to be in a fleet battle, simply jumping to a gate thats camped by more than 5-6 frigates can cause lag enough to be dead before you even see the enemy. And thats in a fast moving frig that should be able to break the blockade
Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.08.16 15:46:00 - [71] Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 16/08/2004 15:50:49 Originally by: Oveur I have been absent so sorry for the late reply. This situation is well known, and if it was so easy to fix, we'd have done so already. What you are encountering is a number of bugs coinciding at the same time. We have fixes for a number of the ones described here (not seeing ships, criminal flagging, new load balancing code, better handling of cached data etc.) They'll be patched in 2 weeks time, but runtime rendering and client side lag is still the biggest factor in this. We beefed up all the server hardware, and they aren't even sweating. This is software related. The Shiva client has some fundamental core changes that is already delivering 20 more frames per second on my system (15-20 in castor vs. 40-50 in Shiva). This will probably be less of an increase when Shiva is ready but at least this gives an indication of what can be done in the cleint. The time and effort of porting this back to Castor would delay Shiva even more and I'm sure you would not like that. Us being present in all the battles do not help, we'd much rather have more log server logs of it happening sent to us. Mark them with when and in what system. Thank you very much for your reply oveur, it was something of this i was looking fore. Regarding the Logs, i was mentioning your presence, because. 1: when in battle the logger slows down client. 2: some of the Logs are bugged, in the way, they dont show whats going on. But i thank you for your reply. And congratulations of you being a father, i guees your tied up in nappies the next 3 to 4 yers, enjoy it while it last So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.08.16 15:46:00 - [72] Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 16/08/2004 15:50:49 Originally by: Oveur I have been absent so sorry for the late reply. This situation is well known, and if it was so easy to fix, we'd have done so already. What you are encountering is a number of bugs coinciding at the same time. We have fixes for a number of the ones described here (not seeing ships, criminal flagging, new load balancing code, better handling of cached data etc.) They'll be patched in 2 weeks time, but runtime rendering and client side lag is still the biggest factor in this. We beefed up all the server hardware, and they aren't even sweating. This is software related. The Shiva client has some fundamental core changes that is already delivering 20 more frames per second on my system (15-20 in castor vs. 40-50 in Shiva). This will probably be less of an increase when Shiva is ready but at least this gives an indication of what can be done in the cleint. The time and effort of porting this back to Castor would delay Shiva even more and I'm sure you would not like that. Us being present in all the battles do not help, we'd much rather have more log server logs of it happening sent to us. Mark them with when and in what system. Thank you very much for your reply oveur, it was something of this i was looking fore. Regarding the Logs, i was mentioning your presence, because. 1: when in battle the logger slows down client. 2: some of the Logs are bugged, in the way, they dont show whats going on. But i thank you for your reply. And congratulations of you being a father, i guees your tied up in nappies the next 3 to 4 yers, enjoy it while it last So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Nafri	Posted - 2004.08.16 17:33:00 - [73] what about the modem lag? Wanna fly with me?
Nafri	Posted - 2004.08.16 17:33:00 - [74] what about the modem lag? Wanna fly with me?
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.08.16 17:43:00 - [75] Oveur, Please look at this fix for a Doom 3 loading time issue; is it possible to allow us to unstuff the .stuff files with Eve into the main Eve folder so that resources aren't wasting by processing these compressed files each time something has to be pulled from them? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.08.16 17:43:00 - [76] Oveur, Please look at this fix for a Doom 3 loading time issue; is it possible to allow us to unstuff the .stuff files with Eve into the main Eve folder so that resources aren't wasting by processing these compressed files each time something has to be pulled from them? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Oveur	Posted - 2004.08.16 17:55:00 - [77] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Oveur, Please look at this fix for a Doom 3 loading time issue; is it possible to allow us to unstuff the .stuff files with Eve into the main Eve folder so that resources aren't wasting by processing these compressed files each time something has to be pulled from them? The .stuff files aren't compressed ( I don't think the pak files are either, they just use .zip to gather it all together) and as stated, this would only do a minimal increase. Not only that, the .stuff files are indexed at client startup so you would essentially be speeding up the starting up of the client, not the ingame loading. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Oveur	Posted - 2004.08.16 17:55:00 - [78] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Oveur, Please look at this fix for a Doom 3 loading time issue; is it possible to allow us to unstuff the .stuff files with Eve into the main Eve folder so that resources aren't wasting by processing these compressed files each time something has to be pulled from them? The .stuff files aren't compressed ( I don't think the pak files are either, they just use .zip to gather it all together) and as stated, this would only do a minimal increase. Not only that, the .stuff files are indexed at client startup so you would essentially be speeding up the starting up of the client, not the ingame loading. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.08.16 18:33:00 - [79] When the client is loaded does it unstuff all of the files and hold them in memory or in a cache folder? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.08.16 18:33:00 - [80] When the client is loaded does it unstuff all of the files and hold them in memory or in a cache folder? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Valorian	Posted - 2004.08.20 10:02:00 - [81] Speaking of logs missing data: At times the in-game log is missing turret (guns & missiles) shooting info, sometimes to the extent that it displays only misses (no drones used) yet the target still dies and no one else is in system. The log seems to only record what is displayed to screen; sometimes that info doesn't have time to display and so some hits/misses are ignored to display more recent hit/miss data. An NPC Corporation is not the pilot of its ships and structures!
Valorian	Posted - 2004.08.20 10:02:00 - [82] Speaking of logs missing data: At times the in-game log is missing turret (guns & missiles) shooting info, sometimes to the extent that it displays only misses (no drones used) yet the target still dies and no one else is in system. The log seems to only record what is displayed to screen; sometimes that info doesn't have time to display and so some hits/misses are ignored to display more recent hit/miss data. An NPC Corporation is not the pilot of its ships and structures!
0seeker0	Posted - 2004.08.20 11:33:00 - [83] It's clearly not all client side as you can get totaly lagged or even dropped from the server just by being near a big fleet jumping in or deploying drones. Like the time Xirt called 'drones out' and 2000 people dropped from the server ************ PMSL!!! That could work if you are getting totally battered like a domesday weapon. 3..2...1... Launch the Drones! Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware. Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
0seeker0	Posted - 2004.08.20 11:33:00 - [84] It's clearly not all client side as you can get totaly lagged or even dropped from the server just by being near a big fleet jumping in or deploying drones. Like the time Xirt called 'drones out' and 2000 people dropped from the server ************ PMSL!!! That could work if you are getting totally battered like a domesday weapon. 3..2...1... Launch the Drones! Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware. Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
voodoo	Posted - 2004.08.22 11:56:00 - [85] Bump This topic needs to stay on top. This to me is one of the most important problems to fix in the game. I've learned my lesson CCP is the master I am the servant. But how can I serve the master correctly in a fleet battle with the bloody lag. Fleet battles are really the only time I experiance any type of noticable lag. Lets keep this topic up in front of CCP's face The Blue Pills Make Me Happy
voodoo	Posted - 2004.08.22 11:56:00 - [86] Bump This topic needs to stay on top. This to me is one of the most important problems to fix in the game. I've learned my lesson CCP is the master I am the servant. But how can I serve the master correctly in a fleet battle with the bloody lag. Fleet battles are really the only time I experiance any type of noticable lag. Lets keep this topic up in front of CCP's face The Blue Pills Make Me Happy
Oveur	Posted - 2004.08.22 12:33:00 - [87] No need to bump it, you can read about the priority of client performance in my blog about it. As an example on my system, my Shiva client maxes at 62 fps, only limited by my LCD display. Castor only does about 30 fps. Lots of optimizatio left to do and lots of stuff still not in there that costs fps but this should give an indication of progress. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Oveur	Posted - 2004.08.22 12:33:00 - [88] No need to bump it, you can read about the priority of client performance in my blog about it. As an example on my system, my Shiva client maxes at 62 fps, only limited by my LCD display. Castor only does about 30 fps. Lots of optimizatio left to do and lots of stuff still not in there that costs fps but this should give an indication of progress. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
voodoo	Posted - 2004.08.22 13:29:00 - [89] Originally by: Oveur No need to bump it, you can read about the priority of client performance in my blog about it. As an example on my system, my Shiva client maxes at 62 fps, only limited by my LCD display. Castor only does about 30 fps. Lots of optimizatio left to do and lots of stuff still not in there that costs fps but this should give an indication of progress. Funtastic love to see those blogs and what you're all up too. Its also nice to keep the pressure on as well thanx for the reply and keep up the great work The Blue Pills Make Me Happy
voodoo	Posted - 2004.08.22 13:29:00 - [90] Originally by: Oveur No need to bump it, you can read about the priority of client performance in my blog about it. As an example on my system, my Shiva client maxes at 62 fps, only limited by my LCD display. Castor only does about 30 fps. Lots of optimizatio left to do and lots of stuff still not in there that costs fps but this should give an indication of progress. Funtastic love to see those blogs and what you're all up too. Its also nice to keep the pressure on as well thanx for the reply and keep up the great work The Blue Pills Make Me Happy

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