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Anatal Klep	Posted - 2009.03.19 20:12:00 - [91] Originally by: Jephir Edited by: Jephir on 18/03/2009 21:42:37 EVE is not graphics intensive. That is not the problem. Actually, I think it is in fleet combat with the camera zoomed in. The graphics are comparable to what I see in high-end FPSes. Quote: What is causing these issues is that EVE does not cap framerates by default. Because of this, EVE will stress video cards beyond their limit because it forces the card to pump out hundreds of frames per second. Even the most demanding games (e.g. Crysis, etc.) will not kill video cards simply because the maximum framerate is capped (usually 30/60 fps). Running EVE on interval immediate (the default option) does not limit the maximum framerate, which can easily go into the hundreds and fry video card memory. So, always run EVE on interval one. It should really be configured like this by default. This is a very plausible explanation. High FPS when docked or logging in is very suspicious. But the most telling is that setting interval = 1 seems to work well.
Anatal Klep	Posted - 2009.03.19 20:51:00 - [92] Originally by: Grez Those with an NVidia card: Update your drivers Disable PhysX Disable SLI You can set a custom profile for EVE so that on start-up it will do this for you. That' fine if NVIDIA's drivers are buggy. But what if the drivers are fine and EVE is just not using them correctly? If EVE is the problem, then this is just as bad a solution as vsync; it works by sacrificing desirable functionality Quote: More specifically, see : "Computer games often allow vertical synchronization as an option, because it delays the image update until the vertical blanking interval. This can cause lowered frame rates due to latency (the period of the refresh rate at maximum), which might be undesirable in games that require fast response (e.g. first person shooters)." Key word being delay - all it's doing is slowing down the output of your card. If vsync is off, all EVE is doing is requesting 100% of your graphics card - ANY modern game does this. I agree vsync should not be the fix because it is working for the wrong reason. To slow down the output, the card needs to slow down the processing of the inputs. That effectively caps FPS and reduces the load as a side effect. The mechanism is unsatisfactory because it precludes peak loads when needed. The question is: why is the load so high that it needs to be reduced? One answer is that there is insufficient cooling. Certain for a few machines but rare for most unless one's cat is in the habit of sleeping on the fans. Another answer is that NVIDIA's drivers are screwed up. Possible but that doesn't account for people with other cards having the same problems or that machines with NVIDIA cards can run other games than EVE without problems. Yet another answer is that CCP has one or more client bugs. Possible for large values of 'likely'.
St'oto BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA KenZoku	Posted - 2009.03.19 21:06:00 - [93] I have no problem with eve. my specs : AMD Athlon xp 64 x2 4200+ Dual XFX Nvidia Geforce 8800 GT Alpha dog edition(SLI Mode on most games) A8n-SLI Premium mobo(NForce4 chipset I beleive) 2gigs of DDR400 ram(yea complete ****e ram but does the job) onboard sound Windows XP SP2 I DO NOT RUN SLI IN EVE. Eve is the only game I do not run SLI in and I have no problems at all. The fans on my GPU may spin alittle louder then usual but so far no problems.
Professor Leech Transmetropolitan	Posted - 2009.03.19 21:11:00 - [94] I've wrecked a couple of computer playing eve. Not really a design issue with the computers but the shear number of hours running on full load. You get similar issues running programs that set the cpu at 100% for months at a time. I think I'll set interval 1 for the laptop just to get the noise level down. The change in frame rate won't have any effect for most of what I do. Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
Arfvedson	Posted - 2009.03.19 22:25:00 - [95] Alot of peoples problems can be helped with some maint on their part, and some info from them. Everyone should have some sort of temperature monitoring software on their computer where they can get to it quickly. If you dont, your sucking. The new nvidia drivers are causing problems. If it's causing a problem with you, roll it back... If your computer is doing the black screen --> restart thing. Go into control panel and tell it to show you the blue screen of death and tell us the error your getting. Physix is causing problems. If it's causing a problem for you, disable it... Right now, alot of OC (even factory OC) cards are having problems. I was getting the black screen of restart with a GTX285OC2. After setting up to see the bsod, I was getting the NVLDDMKM.SYS error like ALOT of ppl that get the black restart problem. The solution was/is I had to downlock my video card because the drivers were having problems with the oc.
Jephir Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2009.03.19 23:52:00 - [96] Again, it's not drivers or PhysX that is causing this problem. The problem is that EVE does not limit the maximum framerate that is being rendered. Don't believe me? Install Fraps on your computer, set interval immediate, and launch EVE. Both in space and in stations you can easily go into hundreds of frames per second. Excessively high framerate stresses the video card memory, often burning out the RAM chips on the video card. RAM chips are extremely vulnerable because they are not directly cooled by the video card fan, they only have heatsinks. Many laptops don't even have video RAM heatsinks because of weight or size restrictions. Updating your video card drivers or increasing fan speed does nothing because in most cases it does not cool video RAM. This is why EVE can often damage laptop computers, as the video RAM on these machines don't have large enough heatsinks, if they have heatsinks at all. Interval one solves this problem by turning on V-Sync, which in effect, caps the maximum framerate of the game. Really, everyone should run interval one, there is not a single person I know that can distinguish framerates above 60 frames per second.
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.20 01:32:00 - [97] Originally by: Haraldhardrade I have read some threads, and have tried sevral stuff. I have tried to run EVE in safe mode, I have tried to disable sound and other options regarding graphicss but nothing works. EVE always freezes my computer after a few minutes in space, the freeze also frezes the sound so the sound enters a loop. I'm fairly sure the error is with the client because all other games runs perfectly on my computer. I cant find anything in the issues thread, and a petition will mostly take a long time because of the new expansion. Anyone have similar problems? I'm having a similar issue check event viewer and see if it has anything about faulting module python25.dll
Lifelongnoob	Posted - 2009.03.20 11:56:00 - [98] Edited by: Lifelongnoob on 20/03/2009 11:56:06 thankfully ive had not crashes since the chipset driver update.... on my system AMD Athlon x2 6000+ with 3gb ddr2 pc-6400 ram and asus m3n h/hdmi motherboard with onboard 8300 gpu and 750a hybrid sli function, also an xfx 8500gt 512mb gacrd and vista x64. i can now run 4 clients from my pc and while the 8500gt gpu get a lil hot it never climbs over 85 degrees c at the mo (next week my pc will have 6gb ddr2 ram and that 8500gt card will have a Zalman dual heatpipe & fan cooling it instead of the stock xfx one so i expect a drop in avg temps there)
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.25 07:06:00 - [99] Chipset uppdate did nothing for me, and my petition could not be solved. now I must file a bug report :\| At least I can change skills. Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
Grez Minmatar Core Contingency	Posted - 2009.03.25 07:23:00 - [100] Originally by: Jephir Again, it's not drivers or PhysX that is causing this problem. The problem is that EVE does not limit the maximum framerate that is being rendered. No modern game caps FPS. Excessively high FPS is a byproduct of the game requesting 100% workload from your system, again something all modern games do. Take this example: A Geforce FX 5200 will get possibly 10 fps. A Geforce 295 will get about 250 fps. They're still both working at 100% load. I wish people would stop showing general ignorance in the area of electronics and graphics card components. They are designed to be worked at 100% load for hours an hours on end, even days. If your card has poor build quality due to a crappy manufacturer, then that's an issue with your card, not with EVE. My EVE displays up to 210 fps, yet it's never burnt itself out - because there's nothing wrong with that. I can create a small C++ program that will output in excess of 2000 fps, yet it won't burn the graphics card. God, how I wish people would stop blabbering on about what they are clueless about. --- Have a rawr on me.
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:13:00 - [101] Edited by: Haraldhardrade on 25/03/2009 09:14:51 Edited by: Haraldhardrade on 25/03/2009 09:14:03 I tried disabling PhysX but it didnt work. Would you describe Nvidia as a crap card maker? Quote: If your graphics card is overheating due to EVE, then you need to search out a adequate cooling solution. Feel absolutely free to run something like 3D mark for 24 hours and watch your machine crash and burn if it dies on EVE after a few hours or even minutes. Why does games that require more resources run perfectly on my rig, but EVE does not? I'm currently running Empire total war on max without any slowdowns what so ever. Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
Grez Minmatar Core Contingency	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:10:00 - [102] Could be that Empire is slightly more CPU dependant. Could be that the GPU ends up waiting for the CPU most of the time. Anything could explain it. --- Have a rawr on me.
Haraldhardrade Amarr Pax Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:29:00 - [103] This bugs me out, I really wnated to explore wormholes Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
Vogg Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.03.26 16:26:00 - [104] Just wanted to report that I am experiencing similar problems. On a whim, ended up re-subbing to EVE last night. After attempting to play, a few minutes the computer freezes with the sound loop. I have not tried updating chipset drivers yet, but will look into it. There is alot of good suggestions in this thread, so bumping up this thread. This is the only game I have played that has caused this. Luckily no fried video card yet though! lol! Just to give people an idea about my specs: Intel Q6600 OC'd to 3ghz 8GB DDR2 800 RAM 2x 8800GTs (Running SLI, but will attempt to disable it tonight to see if it results in any success) Thanks again for the suggestions in this thread, and if anyone else has some ideas to throw out as well, could definitely use them!
Diabito Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.26 16:51:00 - [105] Hi there I was having some problems with the game to, could not run the game, like 5 minutes then I would get a black screen and after another minute I was getting another black screen and then again and puff froze, but that hole problem was because of the graphic card. Then I changed my graphics card and another problem comes out of the blue :) This time a heating problem, only did noticed the heat problem because I changed the motherboard, was with a broken pin on the cpu cooler and was hitting 71¦. You can also test your memory's with golden memory to see if the memory is ok.
Vogg Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.03.27 17:07:00 - [106] Well, after updating chipset drivers, and turning on vsync, I was able to play the game without problems. I will try to disable vsync tonight and see if the issue occurs again. keeps fingers crossed
Miles Apart	Posted - 2009.03.28 11:27:00 - [107] You are correct that running a GFX card at 100% shouldnt cause any problems - providing it is cooled sufficiently. However, there is no point running at a framerate beyond the vertical refresh of the monitor - you wont see the extra frames! Therefore, you may be running at 210 FPS, but its unlikely you are seeing more than 60-90 of them. Those other frames are simply wasted GPU cycles. Originally by: Grez Edited by: Grez on 25/03/2009 07:26:58 Originally by: Jephir Again, it's not drivers or PhysX that is causing this problem. The problem is that EVE does not limit the maximum framerate that is being rendered. No modern game caps FPS. Excessively high FPS is a byproduct of the game requesting 100% workload from your system, again something all modern games do. Take this example: A Geforce FX 5200 will get possibly 10 fps. A Geforce 295 will get about 250 fps. They're still both working at 100% load. I wish people would stop showing general ignorance in the area of electronics and graphics card components. They are designed to be worked at 100% load for hours an hours on end, even days. If your card has poor build quality due to a crappy manufacturer, then that's an issue with your card, not with EVE. My EVE displays up to 210 fps, yet it's never burnt itself out - because there's nothing wrong with that. I can create a small C++ program that will output in excess of 2000 fps, yet it won't burn the graphics card. God, how I wish people would stop blabbering on about what they are clueless about. If your graphics card is overheating due to EVE, then you need to search out a adequate cooling solution. Feel absolutely free to run something like 3D mark for 24 hours and watch your machine crash and burn if it dies on EVE after a few hours or even minutes.
Del369 Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.28 15:03:00 - [108] Actually Eve popped my psu a few weeks ago, old pc was a non oc'd dual core 4200+ with 4gb ddr2 and a 512mb ati card, basically the there was a pop, tripped the fuse back everything else came on cept the pc, psu was well fried bought a new system the other week, put together myself, and omg 280 - 300 fps right now sitting at the 9cg gate if you can afford it, i just have to recommend this:- asrocks p45r000 mobo 8gb's ddr3 ram (ocz 12800 i think) q9550 (2.83) oc'd @ 3.2 saphire 1gb 4850 haf 932 case with 4 fans vista 64 This thing is just screaming oh yea temps right now system 31 cpu 29 hard drive 31 core 0 30 core 1 29 core 2 41 core 3 41 for some reason cores 2 and 3 (3 and 4 basically) never go above or below 41 and current fps is bouncing between 280 and 300 lol.
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2009.03.28 18:16:00 - [109] Originally by: Jephir Edited by: Jephir on 18/03/2009 21:42:37 EVE is not graphics intensive. That is not the problem. What is causing these issues is that EVE does not cap framerates by default. Because of this, EVE will stress video cards beyond their limit because it forces the card to pump out hundreds of frames per second. Even the most demanding games (e.g. Crysis, etc.) will not kill video cards simply because the maximum framerate is capped (usually 30/60 fps). Running EVE on interval immediate (the default option) does not limit the maximum framerate, which can easily go into the hundreds and fry video card memory. So, always run EVE on interval one. It should really be configured like this by default. If your card crashes because you get 300+ FPS, it is not EVE's fault. Games like Crysis do not cap your FPS, Vsync does, and in many games you can turn on or off this option, you can also turn this on and off in your drivers. Vsync was not made for capping your FPS, it was made for bringing your FPS in line with your monitor refresh rate, otherwise you can get screen tearing ( because FPS are too fast for your Monitor ). Besides that, a demanding game with low FPS stresses the GPU as hard or harder then a less demanding game with high FPS. Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2009.03.28 18:17:00 - [110] Originally by: Grez Edited by: Grez on 25/03/2009 07:26:58 Originally by: Jephir Again, it's not drivers or PhysX that is causing this problem. The problem is that EVE does not limit the maximum framerate that is being rendered. No modern game caps FPS. Excessively high FPS is a byproduct of the game requesting 100% workload from your system, again something all modern games do. Take this example: A Geforce FX 5200 will get possibly 10 fps. A Geforce 295 will get about 250 fps. They're still both working at 100% load. I wish people would stop showing general ignorance in the area of electronics and graphics card components. They are designed to be worked at 100% load for hours an hours on end, even days. If your card has poor build quality due to a crappy manufacturer, then that's an issue with your card, not with EVE. My EVE displays up to 210 fps, yet it's never burnt itself out - because there's nothing wrong with that. I can create a small C++ program that will output in excess of 2000 fps, yet it won't burn the graphics card. God, how I wish people would stop blabbering on about what they are clueless about. If your graphics card is overheating due to EVE, then you need to search out a adequate cooling solution. Feel absolutely free to run something like 3D mark for 24 hours and watch your machine crash and burn if it dies on EVE after a few hours or even minutes. This Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2009.03.28 18:24:00 - [111] See, it could be that EVE stresses our GPU's, CPU's, NB's, etc more then other games, and perhaps this is because of bad programming, can be, however this does not matter, because our graphics cards and CPU's should be able to run anything we throw at it, as long as they have proper cooling, are not clocked too high and have quality parts. Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2009.03.28 20:30:00 - [112] Originally by: Anatal Klep Originally by: joodner Soooo eve is OC Video Cards directly...is that what your saying ? Or are you saying that Direct X killed your card ? I am saying that EVE is driving cards outside their load spec. It doesn't matter whether DirectX is middleman or not. Quote: Reality is, Any software that could max out your GPU / CPU (folding software/burn in software/ benchmark software etc) would also have caused the issue had it run long enough. Yes, for any software that ignored load specs. A crash primer on HW and R-T/E... Unless CCP has written their software to overclock, overvoltage or reprogram your bios, the chances that EVE will damage your hardware are nearly non-existent. The story about running beyond load spec, is just that, a story, unless you can prove me otherwise with a link to a white paper from Nvidia, AMD(ATI) or Intel. CPU's and GPU's are made to run on max load for extended periods of time, it is not possible for software to have too heavy load on your CPU or GPU. I agree with the posters here that say that the problem is faulthy hardware or bad cooling, which is triggered by EVE online, possibly because less good programming stressed the GPU harder then before a certain patch. Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC
CyberGh0st Minmatar Ara Veritas	Posted - 2009.03.28 20:33:00 - [113] Originally by: Anatal Klep This is a very plausible explanation. High FPS when docked or logging in is very suspicious. But the most telling is that setting interval = 1 seems to work well. OMG now you are seriously talking out of your arse ... High FPS when docked or logging in is very suspicious ... lol ... Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.03.28 20:52:00 - [114] I think it's fairly well known that EvE will spin your GPU (or your CPU under the old classic client) at 100% if you don't set your preset interval to one. That said, if your hardware explodes under 100% sustained load that's not CCP's fault - consumer level equipment should be able to sustain 100% use indefinitely - the average Joe doesn't know how to monitor temps, modify advanced settings, etc and that's the person the equipment is designed for. If your CPU overheats and dies, or your GPU overheats and dies, you should be complaining to the manufacturer of your computer and/or individual items.
Athenos Sivou	Posted - 2009.03.29 04:43:00 - [115] Well thats what happens to people who use sub-standard computers, technology changes, very quickly, keep with the times, you have only yourself to blame. You should be thanking CCP, if it wasnt for them, who knows, you may still be in the dark ages and wouldnt have recieved the sign to upgrade. :)
Shereza	Posted - 2009.03.29 07:05:00 - [116] Originally by: Thorleck Originally by: Hojne Be happy your computer is still working. Mine just died during playing and after restarting computer, the gfx card was not operational. Tried it in a different computer and still black screen. I think I am the first eve player that actually got computer component destroyed by CCP. Hope your problem gets sorted. that is abviously a coincidance sofweare can not break hardware unless it overclocking sofware. and eve does not overclock anithing you card was most probably already about to die, and the strain pusshed it over the edge. You know, I'd be tempted to believe that if it weren't for one little incident. Years upon years ago I had an SNES. A wonderful tool that provided hours upon hours of pleasure and worked fine. Then I found out about some of the various bugs in Final Fantasy 3 and started exploiting them. They caused all sorts of side-effects and some of the worst were random small-scale graphical anomalies in any non-Mode-7 graphics environment. I didn't think much of it until one day I was playing the game and had the anomalies pop up without abusing a bug. Then I noticed them showing up in my other games as well, games which had been working just fine. So, the question is, what happened? Did FF3 damage my SNES, was it defective and this somehow didn't show up until I was, quite coincidentally, abusing a bug that caused the same problems with graphics, or did the system instead damage all of my games? The system being defective and futzing out in a fashion that had symptoms exactly like many of the results of bug abuse is a little too coincidental for my taste and while it ought to be hard if not impossible for software to damage hardware when the software is on a separate stand-alone unit and in ROM format it should be equally hard to impossible for hardware to damage software. So, given those three equally unlikely probabilities I choose to believe it was the software bug abuse that screwed up with the graphics in the system and based on that I submit that it is possible, though not very likely, that EVE could damage computer hardware. On a side note, when the game locks up on me it does a black screen of death that also screws with the audio fit to damage my speakers, ear bugs, and ears so at the very least it can damage peripherals and people. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
joodner	Posted - 2009.03.29 11:51:00 - [117] Originally by: Shereza Originally by: Thorleck Originally by: Hojne Be happy your computer is still working. Mine just died during playing and after restarting computer, the gfx card was not operational. Tried it in a different computer and still black screen. I think I am the first eve player that actually got computer component destroyed by CCP. Hope your problem gets sorted. that is abviously a coincidance sofweare can not break hardware unless it overclocking sofware. and eve does not overclock anithing you card was most probably already about to die, and the strain pusshed it over the edge. You know, I'd be tempted to believe that if it weren't for one little incident. Years upon years ago I had an SNES. A wonderful tool that provided hours upon hours of pleasure and worked fine. Then I found out about some of the various bugs in Final Fantasy 3 and started exploiting them. They caused all sorts of side-effects and some of the worst were random small-scale graphical anomalies in any non-Mode-7 graphics environment. I didn't think much of it until one day I was playing the game and had the anomalies pop up without abusing a bug. Then I noticed them showing up in my other games as well, games which had been working just fine. So, the question is, what happened? Did FF3 damage my SNES, was it defective and this somehow didn't show up until I was, quite coincidentally, abusing a bug that caused the same problems with graphics, or did the system instead damage all of my games? The system being defective and futzing out in a fashion that had symptoms exactly like many of the results of bug abuse is a little too coincidental for my taste and while it ought to be hard if not impossible for software to damage hardware when the software is on a separate stand-alone unit and in ROM format it should be equally hard to impossible for hardware to damage software. So, given those three equally unlikely probabilities I choose to believe it was the software bug abuse that screwed up with the graphics in the system and based on that I submit that it is possible, though not very likely, that EVE could damage computer hardware. On a side note, when the game locks up on me it does a black screen of death that also screws with the audio fit to damage my speakers, ear bugs, and ears so at the very least it can damage peripherals and people. Please, More stories like this.
Hussain Gallente Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.03.29 17:40:00 - [118] Well guys consider the following Eve rarely crashed on me before Apocrypha now its every 15 mins. I didnt change a thing regarding hardware in the meentime. And when one or two guys complain about crashes or the guys complaining have similar hardware the crashes are probbaly theirs or their hardware fault. But when a lot of guys complain and their hardware does not match.... well MAYBE thats not the problem. Look elsewere.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.06.01 10:35:00 - [119] Sorry to Necro the thread but it is the most relevant one i have found to some rather disastrous issues i had been having. I used to have a 8800GTS 640. Emphasis on used, which is to say EVE ate it. Default Interval was set and i know at one point i was rendering 170+ FPS in stations , so i can probably say the EVE was stressing the card. I now use 9600GTS 512, Default interval is 1 so hopefully v.synch will stop me from cooking my card- i expect no issues with running at refresh rate. Is it advisable to disable Phys-x or has that not shown issues with this card and EVE? Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Xelios Minmatar Broski Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.06.01 11:31:00 - [120] Furmark HWMonitor. Watch your card burn

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