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Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
   |
Posted - 2009.03.15 06:21:00 -
[1]
I have read some threads, and have tried sevral stuff. I have tried to run EVE in safe mode, I have tried to disable sound and other options regarding graphicss but nothing works.
EVE always freezes my computer after a few minutes in space, the freeze also frezes the sound so the sound enters a loop. I'm fairly sure the error is with the client because all other games runs perfectly on my computer. I cant find anything in the issues thread, and a petition will mostly take a long time because of the new expansion.
Anyone have similar problems?
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Linko22
Caldari
RosAviaCosmos
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Posted - 2009.03.15 07:15:00 -
[2]
Did you have black screen, monitor off, unfreeze in loop?
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Hojne
Gallente
Without Reason
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Posted - 2009.03.15 08:32:00 -
[3]
Be happy your computer is still working.
Mine just died during playing and after restarting computer, the gfx card was not operational.
Tried it in a different computer and still black screen.
I think I am the first eve player that actually got computer component destroyed by CCP.
Hope your problem gets sorted.
wr-public (ingame channel)
Without Reason Forum |
Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 09:46:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Linko22
Did you have black screen, monitor off, unfreeze in loop?
No sir. The screen just freeze along with the sound. Alt+cntrl+del does not work so I must pretty much pull the plug on my computer.
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
|
Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 09:49:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hojne
Be happy your computer is still working.
Mine just died during playing and after restarting computer, the gfx card was not operational.
Tried it in a different computer and still black screen.
I think I am the first eve player that actually got computer component destroyed by CCP.
Hope your problem gets sorted.
 
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
|
Thorleck
Gallente
modro
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 10:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
Originally by: Linko22
Did you have black screen, monitor off, unfreeze in loop?
No sir. The screen just freeze along with the sound. Alt+cntrl+del does not work so I must pretty much pull the plug on my computer.
dont pull the plug just hold down the power button for a few second. not a good way to shut down a machine but way better than pvlling the plug.
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Thorleck
Gallente
modro
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 10:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hojne
Be happy your computer is still working.
Mine just died during playing and after restarting computer, the gfx card was not operational.
Tried it in a different computer and still black screen.
I think I am the first eve player that actually got computer component destroyed by CCP.
Hope your problem gets sorted.
that is abviously a coincidance sofweare can not break hardware unless it overclocking sofware. and eve does not overclock anithing you card was most probably already about to die, and the strain pusshed it over the edge.
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Hojne
Gallente
Without Reason
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Thorleck
Originally by: Hojne
Be happy your computer is still working.
Mine just died during playing and after restarting computer, the gfx card was not operational.
Tried it in a different computer and still black screen.
I think I am the first eve player that actually got computer component destroyed by CCP.
Hope your problem gets sorted.
that is abviously a coincidance sofweare can not break hardware unless it overclocking sofware. and eve does not overclock anithing you card was most probably already about to die, and the strain pusshed it over the edge.
Coincidence or not, the strain was still produced by CCP software which killed it in the end. 
wr-public (ingame channel)
Without Reason Forum |
Sleepkevert
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hojne
Coincidence or not, the strain was still produced by CCP software which killed it in the end.
So you are basicly blaiming CCP for running EVE on your PC... I have news for you, you started it, well knowing it would strain your pc.
_
Add your own line! |
Marenubium
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Posted - 2009.03.15 18:35:00 -
[10]
Yeah...here it blew up a perfectly functional graphics card's GPU, just because of the default 'interval immediate'. The GPU ran over 100%.
So you're not the only one ;)
This kind of things you just dont expect, when your card works fine in other games.
Also, this 'soundloop' is the same issue i'm having.
I guess it's SSE related (processor support; check your processor specs).
1.Set the interval to 'one'; helped for a lot of people!
2.And try to disable sound?
But then again, there is some bug in the programming that makes it loop either way...
Sigh.
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Taedrin
Gallente
Golden Mechanization Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.03.15 18:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hojne
I think I am the first eve player that actually got computer component destroyed by CCP.
Hope your problem gets sorted.
I'm pretty certain that EVE has fried many other people's computers. This is because EVE never "sleeps" - meaning that it always sucks up as many CPU cycles as it possibly can which may cause your computer to heat up. While it is true that most CPUs will shut off if the heat rises too much, this will not protect you from extended periods of mild overheating. For example, my processor will shut off automatically once it hits 104C. Even though it will still run at 80-90C, this will still cause damage over time. So if your CPU cooling is inadequate, EVE will cause damage to your CPU over time.
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Drew Blaze
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Posted - 2009.03.15 18:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Taedrin
EVE will cause damage to your CPU over time.
You can pretty much say that about any other piece of software as well.
Heat is the #1 enemy for PC's/Laptops
___________________________
Secret Alt. |
Kevin Gurnhill
Amarr
Zat's Affiliated Traders
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 18:51:00 -
[13]
Eve forces my comp to reboot completely, my comp is perfectly fine when not playing Eve, it plays WoW and Guild Wars PERFECTLY
As soon as i open eve, poof comp force reboots  sometimes i can be ingame for a couple mins and it dies
Ive tried running other programs too nothing reboots me, only eve..
Pentium 4 Dual Core Processor 3.0 Ghz
1.5gb DDR2 Ram
80Gb Harddrive
NVIDA GeForce 9600 GSO Graphics Card
Any Ideas guys? -.-
-----------------------------------------------
Proud Member Of ZATS
Ooohh.... Pass THE NOOBSAUCE!! 
-------------------------- |
Marenubium
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Posted - 2009.03.15 18:55:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Marenubium on 15/03/2009 18:55:49
Originally by: TaedrinSo
if your CPU cooling is inadequate, EVE will cause damage to your CPU over time.
That goes for GPU's too...
And a possible fix is to change the interval from 'immediate' to 'one'.
At least, it did worked for me and my new card :P
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Kevin Gurnhill
Amarr
Zat's Affiliated Traders
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Posted - 2009.03.15 18:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Marenubium
Edited by: Marenubium on 15/03/2009 18:55:49
Originally by: TaedrinSo
if your CPU cooling is inadequate, EVE will cause damage to your CPU over time.
That goes for GPU's too...
And a possible fix is to change the interval from 'immediate' to 'one'.
At least, it did worked for me and my new card :P
Ive tried it on all of the intervals, and ive even got my comp in a cold place with the Cover off, still reboots -.- lol, guess its one of those things eh? -.- ive been playing eve 4 years now and i dont wanna chuck it all in becaise of a silly reboot problem :S
Comp runs (interval 1) at 75 - 85 fps, which is pretty darn good imo :) even in space :)
-----------------------------------------------
Proud Member Of ZATS
Ooohh.... Pass THE NOOBSAUCE!!
-------------------------- |
Drew Blaze
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Posted - 2009.03.15 19:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kevin Gurnhill
75 - 85 fps, which is pretty darn good imo :) even in space :)
You should be aiming to get 60 fps max.. anything over that and there's an issue you need to fix.
___________________________
Secret Alt. |
Taedrin
Gallente
Golden Mechanization Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.03.15 19:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Drew Blaze
Originally by: Taedrin
EVE will cause damage to your CPU over time.
You can pretty much say that about any other piece of software as well.
Heat is the #1 enemy for PC's/Laptops
But not all pieces of software will cause equal amounts of damage. For example, Prime95 causes a lot more heat than notepad will. Likewise, EVE will put a lot more stress on your CPU than WoW will.
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Kevin Gurnhill
Amarr
Zat's Affiliated Traders
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 19:12:00 -
[18]
I get 47+ FPS on interval 2, i Exported to Clipboard and heres the Exported text :)
Resolution: 1024x768 - Windowed: False - Audio: 0
Drones: 1 - Explosions: 1 - Turrets: 1 - Effects: 1 - Missiles: 1 - Shader: 3 - Textures: 0 - HDR: 1 - Bloom: 1
1,73187438,8423976524
2,718017237,2207502513
3,731622737,2898143933
4,717101537,7283894931
5,730049937,5224999904
6,716100837,5067680041
7,799767233,2506197756
8,683069633,3699164854
9,718678338,935397327
10,73230836,805573793
12,067279431,2798703933
12,557339227,1492365751
13,726525893,3832483566
14,72614274,4768726693
15,725766475,0520163805
16,725639175,0264577758
17,702494159,0094057243
18,714938974,8187502283
19,778223373,5035738412
21,074125258,4260218507
21,713827624,4186480247
22,670251537,1690928285
23,736089839,2749611398
24,72250337,5564548107
25,83383633,9495741531
26,685233332,559493723
27,72545338,9401462308
28,737749137,9577927784
29,724134937,4595729296
30,737108237,4852185132
31,723550337,5148711776
32,736364137,5181330783
33,722737137,5109026914
34,735602537,5163026354
35,722040937,5122240747
36,734853537,5139185155
37,721287537,5126003992
38,734328437,5155542832
39,72043637,5139246281
40,733427537,5140495616
41,719743237,511008341
42,7327337,5140194713
43,719036437,5154431297
44,732206837,5100415437
45,718297137,5166278321
46,731334937,512849942
47,717642837,5125055225
48,730700537,5121650588
49,7169637,5129079197
50,729672237,5142242695
51,716868337,5033062225
52,729644137,5154092576
53,739494937,6588548257
54,725052337,5166644245
55,738869937,4770330561
56,72895237,5353307542
57,737508137,5176761758
58,724872437,5013500281
Anyone know what this means at all? -.- lol
if so you is EPIC! :D
-----------------------------------------------
Proud Member Of ZATS
Ooohh.... Pass THE NOOBSAUCE!!
-------------------------- |
Marenubium
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 19:15:00 -
[19]
So this does not work for you?
Crap :(
One thing you might want to check is the agp controller in your device manager. I had severe problems with Nvidia / mobo chipset. But that was a via chipset.
Dont know if it works for you (intel proc)
Right click-mouse over My Computer
Properties
Hardware(Tab)
Device Manager(button)
Click [+] next to System devices
right-mouse on CPU to AGP Controller (or whatever your controller is called, mine was Via AGP)
Update Driver(button)
Select Install from a list or specific location (Advanced)
Next(button)
Select Don't search. I will choose the driver to install.
Next(button)
Select PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge
Next(button)
Finish(button)
Reboot.
Further more, downgrading Nvidia drivers worked also in many (of my) cases. Maybe 174.16/175.19 will do?
Good luck!
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Kevin Gurnhill
Amarr
Zat's Affiliated Traders
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 19:58:00 -
[20]
I have tried updating all the drivers on my comp, a couple of them updated, but one is missing, its called Parport
It comes from C:\WINDOWS\System32\Drivers\Parport.sys
Could this be a problem? :P
-----------------------------------------------
Proud Member Of ZATS
Ooohh.... Pass THE NOOBSAUCE!!
-------------------------- |
Marenubium
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 20:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kevin Gurnhill
I have tried updating all the drivers on my comp, a couple of them updated, but one is missing, its called Parport
It comes from C:\WINDOWS\System32\Drivers\Parport.sys
Could this be a problem? :P
Lol...I think it might be if you installed a printer/scanner on the parallel port...?
Looks to me this is a part of the printserver, and for parallel port use only.
It could have been removed due to malware/virus infections.
But causes it severe (system) errors? (check your logs).
Else I dont think how it would affect your gameplay... but I can be mistaken :)
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Elysarian
Minmatar
dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 22:46:00 -
[22]
The only time I get a complete lockup in Eve is when my (crap) internet is dropping packets.
Could this be the issue? (a "normal" ping won't tell you if you are dropiing packets necessarily, when my net acts up it drops around 10% which does not always show up in the 4-packet sample Windows uses by default, you need to put "n=100" w/o the quotes after the ping command)
As for people with overheating problems and the "my computer was killed by Eve" posts: you people are morons.
Allow me to elaborate:
Yes, Eve stresses hardware more than any other game I know (even Crysis, Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2).
The but is that if you are overheating while doing anything with your PC then there's something wrong with your cooling setup.
I had issues with cooling with my old case when I went to SLI that caused Fallout 3 to shut my computer down, I fixed this by buying a new case and (on inspecting my old fans and finding them full of dust) replacing all my fans with new ones.
A bit of work with a can of air, a hoover and a paintbrush can work wonders if you can't afford the cost of buying more cooling and/or a better case.
=====================================
It smells of spoon!
===================================== |
Drew Blaze
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Posted - 2009.03.15 23:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Elysarian
As for people with overheating problems and the "my computer was killed by Eve" posts: you people are morons.
Looks its Elysarian again, you must really love to put your lips on CCP's ass.
lol.. your a good troll.. this your 3rd post in the past 15min?
Your educational facts don't amaze anyone but your ego.. troll on..
___________________________
Secret Alt. |
Kevin Gurnhill
Amarr
Zat's Affiliated Traders
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 23:21:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Kevin Gurnhill on 15/03/2009 23:21:49
Originally by: Drew Blaze
Originally by: Elysarian
As for people with overheating problems and the "my computer was killed by Eve" posts: you people are morons.
Looks its Elysarian again, you must really love to put your lips on CCP's ass.
lol.. your a good troll.. this your 3rd post in the past 15min?
Your educational facts don't amaze anyone but your ego.. troll on..
He COULD have a point, my comp is like 3 - 4 Years old, its gone through a couple upgrades since then XD it was a REALLLY slow ass running one till i got more ram a new processor and GFX card ^_^ (NVIDA GeForce 9600 GSO which rocks)
I recently got fired and am currently looking for a new job, so am gonna try cleaning comp out ^_^ since i cant afford new case etc
-----------------------------------------------
Proud Member Of ZATS
Ooohh.... Pass THE NOOBSAUCE!!
-------------------------- |
Drew Blaze
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 23:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kevin Gurnhill
He COULD have a point
lol, he just called you a moron and you say he has a point? lol..
You said it..
___________________________
Secret Alt. |
Elysarian
Minmatar
dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 23:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Drew Blaze
Originally by: Kevin Gurnhill
He COULD have a point
lol, he just called you a moron and you say he has a point? lol..
You said it..
Obviously Kevin proved he is not a moron.
Cleaning out your fans really can reduce the random crashes and the like if you can't afford to update your cooling.
Apologies to anyone offended as I did not mean that everyone with cooling issues is a moron.
I just meant that anyone who blames Eve if their computer overheats is a bit thick - it's a bit like blaming a utility company because you electrocuted yourself or something.
=====================================
It smells of spoon!
===================================== |
David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
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Posted - 2009.03.16 03:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
Originally by: Linko22
Did you have black screen, monitor off, unfreeze in loop?
No sir. The screen just freeze along with the sound. Alt+cntrl+del does not work so I must pretty much pull the plug on my computer.
sadly im getting this too
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Anatal Klep
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 04:28:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Elysarian
Yes, Eve stresses hardware more than any other game I know (even Crysis, Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2).
The but is that if you are overheating while doing anything with your PC then there's something wrong with your cooling setup.
That might be true for some computers but it is definitely not true for all. It is quite possible to overdrive a graphics card on any computer to the point where it overheats. The cooling is designed based on the card vendor's specs for heat generation. Those specs assume the card vendor's specs for loading are not exceeded. IOW, you drive the card outside the card vendor's spec for loading and it can overheat no matter how well designed the cooling was. Worse, it is possible to create local hot spots on the card that will damage it even if the card as a whole does not overheat to the point where a thermal shutdon is triggered.
In Revelations there was a thread problem in the market. (I haven't been doing a lot of market stuff in Apocryha so I don't know if it is still there.) Extensive use of the market could result in card resets, thermal shutdowns, and system lockups after 1/2 - 3 hrs of extensive market use. It was preceded by a few mintues by the same flaky behavior in the market. If you checked the FPS just before the crash it would be maxed -- even if you were just sitting in a station with your market's text display. (The thread being stepped on was probably not even in the market to produce that behavior.)
I lost one graphics card because of it. Fortunately someone told me about setting vsynch = 1. That effectively put a cap on the FPS and I haven't had any problems since. (Of course doing that slowed down graphics for everything interesting.)
BTW, when I called the computer vendor's customer support over the broken card the guy asked what I was doing. I said I was playing an online game. He immediately asked if it was EVE. The vendor's position is that EVE is overdriving the cards outside the card vendor's specs. Bye-bye warranty.
Needless to say I am a bit ****ed with CCP, especially since I provided two pages of documentation on the market problem that the BHs refused to attached to a defect. [The BHs require a fixed number of steps leading to the problem or it is regarded as not reproducible. Never mind that it is clearly an asynchronous thread problem that will be inherrently unpredicatable.]
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joodner
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Posted - 2009.03.16 05:16:00 -
[29]
Soooo eve is OC Video Cards directly...is that what your saying ? Or are you saying that Direct X killed your card ?
Reality is, Any software that could max out your GPU / CPU (folding software/burn in software/ benchmark software etc) would also have caused the issue had it run long enough.
Stock cooling can be bad at the best of times, always worth it to run Prime x (number of cores) all at once, loading all avail cores up, watch the temps until it settles down, then try running some GFX/GPU intensive software / benchmark. Most times ppl will only run 1 type of test, e.g CPU or GPU but unless you really heat up the GPU and CPU at the same time you cannot recreate some of the stress moden day games can throw at your rig. By heating both up, you can tell if then the case is cooling correctly, is the air moving the correct way etc.
Heat can be a killer, but its not really the fault of any single game, just browse any game forum that has a high level of graphics, you will always get the exact same threads, XXXXXX game killed my PC. If they had been running a Burn in app or any software that stressed the hardware to the same level, the exact same thing would have happened.
Always keep all fans cleaned and run combo stress tests and monitor cooling as part of regular maintaince. (seen cusomers come in from dead PC's (yes from overheating) and 3 out of the 4 fans had sized, they never noticed it etc and were upset at the end result).
And then there is assoicated issues with under spec'd PSU.
And I run 3 x clients on 1 box here, no problems with heat or locking.... just the annoying wierd sound balance issue.
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Kendra Shouw
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.16 13:36:00 -
[30]
Dunno about other gfx cards and processors but mine coreQuad q9400 and powerColor ATI 3870PCS goes under 35C
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Maevic
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:35:00 -
[31]
Hi there
I have really similiar problem. After few seconds of play, game freezes, then the sound loops, and after few seconds I get nice blue screen saying that computer will be reboot cause there's risk of hardware damaging. (I dont know if it is important, but word 'serial.sys' was there among many strange digits;])
Im playing on samsung q35 laptop (with GMA950 integrated graphic chipset) on Win XP SP3.
I had almost no problems with that. I played Apocrypha and it was ok. Yesterday those problems occured. I dont know why now.
I think I had some cooling problem (there was a time I wasn't able to run computer after long operation, cause it was too hot). Temperature is about 90 degrees, but as I checked it is normal operating temperature.
Right now I dont think its a problem with cooling - I can start laptop, and when it's still cold, when I run eve, everything crashes...
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Anatal Klep
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:10:00 -
[32]
Originally by: joodner
Soooo eve is OC Video Cards directly...is that what your saying ? Or are you saying that Direct X killed your card ?
I am saying that EVE is driving cards outside their load spec. It doesn't matter whether DirectX is middleman or not.
Quote:
Reality is, Any software that could max out your GPU / CPU (folding software/burn in software/ benchmark software etc) would also have caused the issue had it run long enough.
Yes, for any software that ignored load specs. A crash primer on HW and R-T/E...
Graphics cards are digital HW composed of massive networks of transistors. Transistors are either "on" or "off". When "on" current flows through the transistor; when "off" no current flows, which is why they are commonly called 'gates'. For example, TTL logic floats high (logic 1) when "off". To drive the input gate to low (logic 0) one needs to tie the transistor input to ground. [My first program was on a plug board in '57 and we literally wrote 0s into the HW by connecting a ground plug to the gate input, much like telephone switchboards you see in '40s movies.]
When current flows heat is generated in the silica of the transitor and the lands of the circuit that connect transistors and power rails. Heat conduction in printed circuits is poor even with the exotic materials used today. So if even a relatively small cluster of transistors is "on" for a sustained period of time a local hot spot can develop that can damage the board. That can happen long before the heat sinks' temperatures rise significantly.
As a practical matter every graphics card in the world will be fried within a few seconds if all the transistors were "on" at once. (It is usually impossible to turn all the transistors in a massive network on at the same time, but it is very possible to turn most of them on or at least local clusters of them.) Therefore the card vendors provide two specs: one for expected heat generation based on each transistor being off about half the time, so that proper cooling can be designed; and one for loading the card, to prevent turning on too many transistors for too long or for turning on clusters of transistors for too long.
In the HW world those specs are commonly called "design rules" for incorporating the circuit into a larger system. But for a graphics card those load design rules define limits on how software applications drive the card. Thus they will put limits on things like sustained FPS or tell you not to use a tight loop that displays exactly the same pixel content.
Since all graphics card manufacturers have the same basic goals of preventing too many transistors being on at the same time, those load specs look pretty much the same. (Also, card vendors don't want to be the odd man out with load specs that are too tight lest they suffer a competitive disadvantage.) As a result all CCP needs to do is look at the load specs for 1 or 2 high performance graphics cards to design EVE's loads within those specs and EVE would probably be fine on any machine.
I'll give CCP credit and assume they did that so that the current problems are the result of bugs like those in the market where threads are stepping on each other are producing side effects that drive the cards out of load spec.
BUT THE PROBLEM IS NOT COOLING (except maybe on some El Cheapo PCs). In EVE's case cards are being overdriven and the only way to prevent that right now is to set vsynch = 1.
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Grez
Minmatar
Core Contingency
Ignition.
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 16:19:00 -
[33]
Graphics cards should be capable of running at 100% usage for 24 hours.
If your card cannot do this, seek adequate cooling in your machine. Or send back the card, as the manufacturer you purchased it off is obviously not that great.
EVE cannot push a card to 110% utilisation. That's impossible.
Again, if your graphics card is not capable of running at 100% usage, then that's not a problem with EVE. It's a problem with your graphics card.
---
Have a rawr on me. |
Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 16:37:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Maevic
Hi there
I have really similiar problem. After few seconds of play, game freezes, then the sound loops, and after few seconds I get nice blue screen saying that computer will be reboot cause there's risk of hardware damaging. (I dont know if it is important, but word 'serial.sys' was there among many strange digits;])
Im playing on samsung q35 laptop (with GMA950 integrated graphic chipset) on Win XP SP3.
I had almost no problems with that. I played Apocrypha and it was ok. Yesterday those problems occured. I dont know why now.
I think I had some cooling problem (there was a time I wasn't able to run computer after long operation, cause it was too hot). Temperature is about 90 degrees, but as I checked it is normal operating temperature.
Right now I dont think its a problem with cooling - I can start laptop, and when it's still cold, when I run eve, everything crashes...
My problem exactly, I get blue screen too. My PC is more than powerful enough to run EVE.
Intel Quad Core QX6850 3GHz @ 3.73GHz
Nvidia GeForce 8800GTX 768MB x2 in SLi
4096MB DDR2 800MHz RAM @ 1066MHz
2x 160GB 10,000RPM Raptor HDD's
1x 96GB 10,000RPM Raptor HDD
1x 500GB 7,200RPM Seagate HDD
SoundBlaster X-Fi XtremeMusic
PhysX Card 128MB PCI Edition
1000Watt Dell PSU
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Azgarreth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:54:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Hojne
Be happy your computer is still working.
Mine just died during playing and after restarting computer, the gfx card was not operational.
Tried it in a different computer and still black screen.
I think I am the first eve player that actually got computer component destroyed by CCP.
Hope your problem gets sorted.
Got the same problem, eve killed my graphic card ... eve crashed, I got a bluescreen, restarted my comp and my graphic card is broken since ... I first thought it was just my computer, bad coincidence ... I reinstalled it on another computer, got the same result after some minute of playing, I just want to say, thx CCP for killing my 2 88OOGTs :/
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David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:18:00 -
[36]
i dont think it is a graphics card issue for me
because i can play counter strike source with full details no problem and no lock ups
gpu gets higher than it does in eve
its something else in client thats causing errors
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Azgarreth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:22:00 -
[37]
It is a graphic card issue, my computer starts with weird bios report at the beginning, and when I'm at the login page it crash. I tried with another GPU and it works perfectly ...
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Marenubium
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:30:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Grez
Graphics cards should be capable of running at 100% usage for 24 hours.
If your card cannot do this, seek adequate cooling in your machine. Or send back the card, as the manufacturer you purchased it off is obviously not that great.
EVE cannot push a card to 110% utilisation. That's impossible.
Again, if your graphics card is not capable of running at 100% usage, then that's not a problem with EVE. It's a problem with your graphics card.
Please read again Anatal Klep's post...that's the 4th time I have doubts about you reading WELL.
Now this is pretty much confirmed now...
Please read again. You're too much into 'it is not possible', 'its not about EVE', etc.
Grez, and please read other posts as well.
Because with your 'it's not possible', there can't NEVER be a sollution to what a lot of people are encountered now with, can it?
And please reas these, too:
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
Originally by: Maevic
Hi there
I have really similiar problem. After few seconds of play, game freezes, then the sound loops, and after few seconds I get nice blue screen saying that computer will be reboot cause there's risk of hardware damaging. (I dont know if it is important, but word 'serial.sys' was there among many strange digits;])
Im playing on samsung q35 laptop (with GMA950 integrated graphic chipset) on Win XP SP3.
I had almost no problems with that. I played Apocrypha and it was ok. Yesterday those problems occured. I dont know why now.
I think I had some cooling problem (there was a time I wasn't able to run computer after long operation, cause it was too hot). Temperature is about 90 degrees, but as I checked it is normal operating temperature.
Right now I dont think its a problem with cooling - I can start laptop, and when it's still cold, when I run eve, everything crashes...
My problem exactly, I get blue screen too. My PC is more than powerful enough to run EVE.
Intel Quad Core QX6850 3GHz @ 3.73GHz
Nvidia GeForce 8800GTX 768MB x2 in SLi
4096MB DDR2 800MHz RAM @ 1066MHz
2x 160GB 10,000RPM Raptor HDD's
1x 96GB 10,000RPM Raptor HDD
1x 500GB 7,200RPM Seagate HDD
SoundBlaster X-Fi XtremeMusic
PhysX Card 128MB PCI Edition
1000Watt Dell PSU
Quote:
Got the same problem, eve killed my graphic card ... eve crashed, I got a bluescreen, restarted my comp and my graphic card is broken since ... I first thought it was just my computer, bad coincidence ... I reinstalled it on another computer, got the same result after some minute of playing, I just want to say, thx CCP for killing my 2 88OOGTs :/
And a lot of other people with actually GOOD cards/pc's/coolers have the same issues.
So, at this point, I say you are wrong with your 'being convinced' that 'it's not possible'.
Apparently, IT IS.
So stop saying 'it's not possible', but actually be more helpful, if you are some kind of expert here?
Thank you.
:(
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David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:12:00 -
[39]
Edited by: David Grogan on 16/03/2009 19:12:17
quick question
how many people getting lock ups have 2 graphics cards?
i have 2 gpus in hybrid sli mode
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Anatal Klep
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:15:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Grez
Graphics cards should be capable of running at 100% usage for 24 hours.
If your card cannot do this, seek adequate cooling in your machine. Or send back the card, as the manufacturer you purchased it off is obviously not that great.
EVE cannot push a card to 110% utilisation. That's impossible.
Sorry, but this is confusing utilization with loading.
Every graphics card is being run at 100% utilization so long as the desktop is displayed (i.e., the whole screen is showing something). The issue is how it is being utilized, not whether it is being utilized. Every card manufacturer provides specs on how you can load it while utilizing it. If an application violates those specs, that is known as "overdriving". Then the card can get toasted and the vendor is not going to replace it under warranty.
An obvious example is that every card vendor specifies a maximum clock rate. You can drive the card faster (some PCs actually do that) and it may well still work. But if it doesn't work properly or it gets fried in the process, don't expect to get a free replacement from the card vendor because you are overdriving it. Graphics display effects may be more subtle but the idea is basically the same.
Please re-read my previous post. There is no way the manufacturer can design the card for having every gate turned on for a sustained amount of time. The same properties that make substrates good electrical insulators to isolate current-carrying elements also tend to make them good thermal insulators as well. So the physics of integrated circuits simply won't allow that; gates have to be off at least half the time to allow heat to dispate. (They could build a card that would run with all gates on indefinitely but it would be about the size of your kitchen.) So the manufacturers have to provide design rules that will limit clock rate and display activities.
Go look at your card vendor's web site. Somewhere on there you should find specs that limit things like the maximum FPS and the maximim time you can run the card at that maximum FPS.
[Before you argue that displaying the desktop is static so the same gates are on for sustained lengths of time, let me point out that is memory. The biggest problem with memory chip design is ensuring adequate heat dissipation precisely because gates must stay on indefintitely. What fries the graphics card is the dynamics for constructing the graphical effects in the GPU, not their memory. That's because there are far fewer gates in a memory chip than in a GPU and the volumetric gate density of memory chips is orders of magnitude lower. The artwork is also much more regular in memory chips, which makes heat flow more uniform.]
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David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:25:00 -
[41]
Edited by: David Grogan on 16/03/2009 19:32:12
i believe the issue lies with using 2 gpus
if i set eve to run on my (default) 8300 gpu it runs fine but if i set it to run on 8500gt card gpu it locks up
the 8300 gpu is passive cooled and temps rarely passed 55 degrees c under load
the 8500gt is actively cooled by fan and temps rarely go under 60 degrees c and climb to 75 degrees under load before it crashes while playing eve on lowest possible settings
while playing counterstrike source set on full detail the temps reach 82 degrees c but stablises there and no lock ups occur.
im thinking new eve client doesnt like sli mode too well and this is the area in which the devs need to look at to find the cause.
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Azgarreth
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:41:00 -
[42]
I don't use SLI and I have the problem :)
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Grez
Minmatar
Core Contingency
Ignition.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 22:38:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Grez on 16/03/2009 22:40:45
Originally by: Marenubium
blah blah blah
I was replying to joodner's post. But thanks anyway.
And to reply to your statement. If there are so many people who are NOT having issues with exactly the same cards, then logic dictates that it's not EVE.
Pays to use your brain.
In regards to the person with the TWO 8800's, he might like to know that SLI is currently fubar on some motherboards for the past three driver updates. Currently, EVE does not like SLI, it will cause a BSOD.
The fault is not EVE's. Write to NVidia's driver department if you must. I know quite a few people are ****ed off with them since implementing PhysX into their drivers (iirc, that's what is causing the problem).
---
Have a rawr on me. |
David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 23:16:00 -
[44]
guys since i disabled my physx component in my nvidia drivers i seem to have stablilised my system while playing eve.... even avg gpu temps have gone down slightly
to disable your physx bit of the drivers goto start > programs > nvidia corp > physx properties and set it to disabled
see if that helps with stability
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Fiben Bolger
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Posted - 2009.03.17 02:37:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Grez
Edited by: Grez on 16/03/2009 23:00:26
Originally by: Marenubium
blah blah blah
I was replying to joodner's post. But thanks anyway.
"deleted text"
If your machine is overheating due to your card being stressed, then the problem is not with EVE, but with your cooling apparatus.
Your response here to Marenubium reads as a bit rude. I currently have a computer in the shop. The graphics card is being replaced after I downloaded the new Eve patch and it was fried. Luckily, my warranty covers it. Apple, ftw.
If this were a car there would sure as **** be a recall, and probably a lot of successful lawsuits. If it were toys made in China, there would be an international incident. I, frankly, am fed up with the notion perpetuated by software engineers that the code they write is never culpable if someone's hardware is fried by that code. The software industry is almost as lazy, greedy, and irresponsible as the banking industry. Perhaps more so.
Unfortunately for us, there is nothing in the banking industry that can immediately take the place of those failing banks. Not so, regarding software engineers and the crap they peddle. I've actually been having fun with Age of Conan. And they manage magnificent graphics without burning up any graphics cards. You have to give credit where credit is due.
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Anatal Klep
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Posted - 2009.03.17 05:37:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Grez
In regards to your logic gate switching though (I haven't made a statement to that yet, so I can only assume you were talking to someone else), a graphics card should never have all of its gate engaged - much like a CPU. It would require a direct instruction to do so, of which no instruction should ever exist.
I actually said that in my OP, to which I thought your were responding. In practice it is impossible to turn on all the gates because of inverters and whatnot in the propagation path. But it is possible to turn on at least clusters of them for sustained periods.
FYI, you can fry an ALU. Remember back in the '80s when running Dhrystones and Whetstones was the rage for comparing desktops? They actually trashed some ALUs doing that when the loops got too tight because the FPU is not speced for that kind of sustained, tightly repetitive computation of the same data. It is tough to overdrive an ALU from an application because of the nature of the instruction set but it is not that tough to overdrive a graphics card. [Recently in another thread someone said they measured 900 FPS when a chararacter was logging in! Do that for awhile and the card is going to opt for sepuku. B-)]
Quote:
Also, EVE uses DirectX to talk to the hardware, how exactly could EVE force the cards to run over their 'load limits'. I'm a software engineer, and I also take a heavy interest in graphics cards (their architecture, etc), and I have never, ever seen anything that even remotely relates to a "load limit" mentioned, or even published. Care to share an example (usually a PDF link, and only through direct channels of course, those being Matrox, SiS, Intel, NVidia, ATI)?
It doesn't matter whether DirectX is the middleman. DirectX has no knowledge of the particular card so it has no way of "protecting" the card if the application chooses to overdrive it. DirectX just passes through the requests, albeit with a lot of massaging. What matters is what the application is asking the card to do and how often it is asking.
We have different experience. I spent two decades before retiring doing R-T/E software and I've never seen HW for a hybrid system that did not have duty cycle specifications. Programs that test digital hardware have to be careful not to set too many of the same bits in successive tests (which is easy to do because it is easier to write the tests that way).
I looked at the NVIDIA site and it is pretty fluffy. I only found one paper that even mentioned a limit on clock rate! But I know such specs exist because I've used them. The closest thing I did find was "GeForce_GTX_200_Technical_Brief.pdf"
It was not very enlightening, but it did have a section on power that mentioned that worst case power consumption for full 3D graphics was 236 W. It then talked about how the card had "digital watchdogs" to balance the power to avoid that. The clear implication was that 236 W could not be sustained, which figures because that's more power than most motherboards consume on average.
Every piece of digital hardware I have ever encountered has duty cycle specifications. If you exceed those specs you are overdriving the board and it can be toasted. [BYW, I use the word 'overdrive' advisedly. Technically in HW testing it refers specifically to driving the hardware beyond its duty cycle. Any digital card can be overdriven.]
On setting vsynch...
I know what it does and that prevents the graphics card from being overdriven. So the EVE crashes, card resets, and thermal shutdowns all stop. I lost one grahics card and had such problems every EVE session starting in Trinity (none before). But I haven't had one since I set vsynch = 1. That pretty much indicts EVE as the culprit because the vsynch setting is just for EVE and EVE was running fine before Trinity. (There are other things that specifically indite thread problems in the market as being associated with the card problems.)
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Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.17 09:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Grez
If your machine is overheating due to your card being stressed, then the problem is not with EVE, but with your cooling apparatus.
Then how come I can run games with higher requirements on max settings just fine, while EVE overheats my cards? It makes no sense.
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Lastavica
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Posted - 2009.03.17 12:53:00 -
[48]
well eve does stress my laptop a lot. sometimes it really heats it up and there is no discussion is it damaging it or not.
so, after reading this thread i tried to limit fps (couse now eve is running on like 130 fps) to 60. i put interval one, and it worked perfectly. i didnt even have heat issues. yesterday.
now, fps is again going skyhigh and whatever interval i choose it just makes no difference. it just stays at 120-130.
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Maevic
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Posted - 2009.03.17 13:32:00 -
[49]
I dont have NVIDIA card and I dont have this PhysX. So I cant shut it. I have that integrated GMA950 (those on many laptops), 1GB of RAM, 2x1,66 GHz Core 2 Duo. I know that its not a very good computer for playing (but its netbook).
After I installed Apocrypha I could play EVE without any problems. It was really OK. When there were many objects on the screen I had about 10fps... but I dont really need those all explosions, beautiful graphics etc. What is important. I played it normally few hours a day.
Few days later, I installed some stuff (for example .NET framework, Civilizatin III etc... it is not important) and I started to have those problems with EVE.
So, I reinstalled drivers, cleaned registry etc but it didnt help. Im pretty sure that it is connected with drivers/dlls. I'll try to reinstall EVE.
Does anyone have any idea what to do??
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Angelsfist
Justice.
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:44:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
Originally by: Maevic
Hi there
I have really similiar problem. After few seconds of play, game freezes, then the sound loops, and after few seconds I get nice blue screen saying that computer will be reboot cause there's risk of hardware damaging. (I dont know if it is important, but word 'serial.sys' was there among many strange digits;])
Im playing on samsung q35 laptop (with GMA950 integrated graphic chipset) on Win XP SP3.
I had almost no problems with that. I played Apocrypha and it was ok. Yesterday those problems occured. I dont know why now.
I think I had some cooling problem (there was a time I wasn't able to run computer after long operation, cause it was too hot). Temperature is about 90 degrees, but as I checked it is normal operating temperature.
Right now I dont think its a problem with cooling - I can start laptop, and when it's still cold, when I run eve, everything crashes...
My problem exactly, I get blue screen too. My PC is more than powerful enough to run EVE.
Intel Quad Core QX6850 3GHz @ 3.73GHz
Nvidia GeForce 8800GTX 768MB x2 in SLi
4096MB DDR2 800MHz RAM @ 1066MHz
2x 160GB 10,000RPM Raptor HDD's
1x 96GB 10,000RPM Raptor HDD
1x 500GB 7,200RPM Seagate HDD
SoundBlaster X-Fi XtremeMusic
PhysX Card 128MB PCI Edition
1000Watt Dell PSU
I got the same problem. I bought a completely new rig for Apocrypha. I built it two weeks before the patch and it worked perfectly. I was playing EvE QR with no problems whatsoever.
Then the patch came. I installed it. And tried it. Boom.. blue screen. computer restarts and looks to be working fine. I start eve again,and suddenly I get the BSOD again..
Different error messages every time. Something about kernel, memory dump, hardware damage etc..
I run the following config:
Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 3,33GHz
Corsair Dominator TWIN2X8500C5D 4096MB, DDR2 (1066 MHz)
XFX GeForce 9800GTX+ 765M 512MB PhysX PCI-Express 2.0
2x WESTERN DIGITAL VELOCIRAPTOR 300GB SATAII 10KRPM 16MB
ASUS P5Q motherboard with integrated soundcard.
Corsair Powersupply 750W
ANTEC Twelve Hundred Ultimate Gamer Case - with more than enough cooling. (CPU and GPU runs stable at ~35degrees when fully strained.)
After the first bluescreen I keep on getting the bluescreen even when not playing EvE. It keep on happening from time to time. Not regular at all. One week ago I uninstalled EvE on my rig, and the BSOD stopped. Been running the computer with no problems at all since I uninstalled EvE. Now I'm stuck with EvE on my old laptop.. :(
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David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 18:36:00 -
[51]
to all those running nvidia sli based motherboards that are getting lock ups
yesterday nvidia released new chipset drivers dated 16 march 2009
i installed it today and so far i have not crashed yet
this seems to be far more stable then previous chipset drivers
ive ben up for over 2hrs now and no crash yet and im running 2 clients (1 per gpu) with no issues
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Feilamya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:49:00 -
[52]
My system crashed with a bluescreen today less than one minute after first login after downloading the new patch.
Whatever you have done to the client in the last patch, revert it! Downgrade to the last version, w/e. This patch is worse than the first release of Apoc.
I have a GeForce 8800 GT and I have been running EVE Premium at max details at 60 FPS for months without provblems, so there is no problem with my system.
This is also the first time in years that I've seen a bluescreen on my PC. Congratulations, CCP!
(I occasionally see them at work, but that's because my boss wants me to do evil things to our hardware...)
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David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 19:10:00 -
[53]
Edited by: David Grogan on 17/03/2009 19:11:19
what motherboard are u using?
if its an nvidia chipset update to the nforce drivers released yesterday
im running 2 ac and since the new driver i have not crashed
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 19:13:00 -
[54]
i got logfile server running and i notice alot of errors relating to the new billbaords showing up.... it doesnt seem to cause any signicant issues but i felt it was worth mentioning
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Fishweasel
Imperium Technologies
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:34:00 -
[55]
I had a similar issue that may turn out to be unrelated.
After Apocrypha patch, i had 3 days playing for about 30 mins no problem - although slightly sluggish as im using the minimum spec gfx card (a free nvidia 5200).
After 3 days, i started to get lock-ups where screen would freeze and sound would loop.
After a bit of luck, i got to close eve and my machine started acting ok again.
It turn out that some read/write errors to my hard disk had after a certain number of errors caused windows to switch my hard drive SATA controller to downgrade transfer mode to PIO.
Setting this back to SATA-100 in device manager and reboot - worked fine. Eve now runs again without freezing or crashing.
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Bo Bojangles
Interstellar eXodus
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:24:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
EVE always freezes my computer after a few minutes in space, the freeze also frezes the sound so the sound enters a loop.
This is exactly what my system does when the CPU or Southbridge chip has become overheated.
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David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 20:29:00 -
[57]
almost 5hrs now still running with 2 ac on medium shader high texture no crashes since new nvidia chipset (nforce 750a sli driver package) released yesterday march 16th 2009.
they release new chipset drivers for many of the 7 series 8 series and 9 series chipsets
if u get lockups i suggest you try this
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Elysarian
Minmatar
dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 20:35:00 -
[58]
First off: I have a pair of 8800's in SLI, I also get 900fps at the login screen.
Apart from a bit of muppetry on my part when installing my new PSU (see my thread in OOPE) - I got a wire stuck in the CPU fan, causing a thermal shutdown of my CPU, proving that AMD have fixed any issues with burning out of CPU's since the Athlon days (I have a Phenom II) - no real problems with Eve at all.
I got beer up my nose reading that post on how transistors work though...
I am an electronics engineer and have never heard anythign so badly described in my life!
Let me try to explain 2 things:
1. TTL = 5v applied to switch "on" a transistor, CMOS = 0v applied to switch "on".
2. Thermal runaway = when a semiconductor (silicon) is conducting electricity it gets warm. The problem with that is that, unlike conductors (e.g. Copper) where the resistance increases when temperature increases (positive temperature coefficient of resistance), semiconductor resistance decreases when temperature increases (negative temperature coefficient of resistance). This means that, as your gfx card or processor gets warm, it draws more current - if this is allowed to continue beyond a certain point (design threshold) the device in question with continue to heat itself up because of the extra current it is drawing (positive feedback loop) - leading to its destruction. Modern devices (CPU and GPU) have embedded temperature probes that are supposed to either shut them down or lower the clock speed if thermal runaway is a possibility.
AMD had issues back in the Athlon days with this - you could remove the HSF from an Intel chip and it would just go really slow but an Athlon would actually vapourise itself.
=====================================
It smells of spoon!
===================================== |
Julia Steaz
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:13:00 -
[59]
When Apocrypha came out, my computer stalled after two minutes the first three times I logged in. I took a picture of my monitor with a camera and posted it on a computer forum. A person replied "Your graphics card is fried."
Luckily, he was wrong. My graphics card is still working, and somehow my computer no longer stalls. But after having read this thread, I think I will stop playing Eve. I recently spent $1050 on a new computer, including $230 on a BFG Nvidia 9800GTX OC+, and I don't feel like taking the risk.
My system:
- Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
- Nvidia 9800GTX OC+
- 4GB Ram @ 1066mhz
- Asus P5QL
- 500GB HDD 7200RPM
- 600W PSU
- Antec 300 Gaming Case
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Hiro Apropos
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:26:00 -
[60]
Anatal Klep
That was the most succinct posts on Video Card usage I have ever read, and I thank you for increasing my knowledge of the hardware. Kudos.
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Julia Steaz
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:38:00 -
[61]
It's hard to believe that Eve would be so graphic intensive. I just acquired Call of Duty 4 and the graphics are unbelievable. When I logged into Eve I was disappointed at the lack of detail and realism.
Who figured it would take so much power to render a black screen with a bunch of white dots for stars.
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Elysarian
Minmatar
dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:48:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Julia Steaz
It's hard to believe that Eve would be so graphic intensive. I just acquired Call of Duty 4 and the graphics are unbelievable. When I logged into Eve I was disappointed at the lack of detail and realism.
Who figured it would take so much power to render a black screen with a bunch of white dots for stars.
That's actually part of the problem, or so it seems, CoD and other FPS games (other game genre's too) do a lot of processing on your CPU which generate interrupts, slowing down the amount of data sent to the GPU.
Eve does not have CPU overheads in-client so sends a crapton of data to the GPU and, in many cases, overloads it (or at least causes overheating in those cards that either have poor cooling, poor system cooling or crap temperature probes.
=====================================
It smells of spoon!
===================================== |
David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 22:09:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Hiro Apropos
Anatal Klep
That was the most succinct posts on Video Card usage I have ever read, and I thank you for increasing my knowledge of the hardware. Kudos.
yer he does tend to troll on about it alot
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 22:10:00 -
[64]
Edited by: David Grogan on 17/03/2009 22:11:18
7 hrs since chipset driver update and still no crash running 2 ac from 1 pc both at medium shader - high textures
(15 mins per crash pre driver update running 1 ac at low shader low textures)
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 22:14:00 -
[65]
Edited by: David Grogan on 17/03/2009 22:15:02
nvidia based pc lockups is due to 2 things in my opinion
1. physX doesnt work right --- bad driver
2. chipset drivers older than 16 march 2009 also has issues with eve
solution for me and i hope many of ye is disable physX and
update the mobo chipset drivers to the new ones nvidia released yesterday march 16th 2009... no more heating issues no more crashes
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 23:29:00 -
[66]
coming up on 8hrs non stop without a crash
defo chipset drivers is the problem --- get nvidia's newest "nforce chipset drivers" if u get lockups
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Danivon
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:31:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Danivon on 17/03/2009 23:32:14
Eve killed an 8800GTS here. I know EXACTLY why it killed the card as well. Its a combination of interval immediate and anti-aliasing in-station. Turn either one off and listen to the fan spin slower. I replaced the 8800GTS with a Radeon 4870 and the fan runs at full speed in station with interval immediate and AA on - interval one and AA turned off and you can barely hear the fan. If you look at some of the station environments they are largely composed of lots and lots of edges (minnie ones especially) and ALL of those edges are quite likely being anti-aliased by your card.
Of course the station (and most of the rest of Eve) looks rubbish without AA on but that's a different story. HDR doesn't compensate and personally I'd rather have AA than shiny reflections and really bright lighting.
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David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 23:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Danivon
Edited by: Danivon on 17/03/2009 23:32:14
Eve killed an 8800GTS here. I know EXACTLY why it killed the card as well. Its a combination of interval immediate and anti-aliasing in-station. Turn either one off and listen to the fan spin slower. I replaced the 8800GTS with a Radeon 4870 and the fan runs at full speed in station with interval immediate and AA on - interval one and AA turned off and you can barely hear the fan. If you look at some of the station environments they are largely composed of lots and lots of edges (minnie ones especially) and ALL of those edges are quite likely being anti-aliased by your card.
Of course the station (and most of the rest of Eve) looks rubbish without AA on but that's a different story. HDR doesn't compensate and personally I'd rather have AA than shiny reflections and really bright lighting.
to any ccp programmer reading this.............have the client auto choose interval one by default.............let player decide if the wanna risk a higher setting
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 00:39:00 -
[69]
9hrs running with no crash
defo new drivers fixed it
i now can run 3 ac at medium shader high texture from 1 pc
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
joodner
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 01:43:00 -
[70]
For all thoses that are crashing or worried about overheating ...
Have you run a system stress test and monitored all temps ?
e.g run Prime on all Cores and a GPU Benchmark for 2-3 hours while watching all system temps ?
Run MEMTEST ?
Now if your getting Blue screens, follow up on the errors or post the exact error code here.
I will bet that 95%+ of all Blue screens will be hardware faults or crap drivers loaded somewhere (not the main drivers norm, but a crappy chipset / printer/scanner etc that was installed ages ago and fogotten about).
If your really worried about killing any compnent in your PC , then get pro active about it, start monitoring all temps and STRESS TEST THE SYSTEM outside of EVE. Double check all fans in the case are working / cleaned of dust and gunk. Are all the fans operating the correct way ? (fronts should pull in clean air from outside. Back and top fans should be pushing hot air from inside out).
Without more information, its hard to track down and resolve any issue.
So if you crash/lockup/bluescreen...
What make / model /driver version GPU ?
What Make / Model CPU ?
What is GPU Temp IDLE ?
What is CPU Temp IDLE ?
What was Max GPU Temp in EVE before Crash ?
What was Max CPU Temp in EVE before Crash ?
What was MAX GPU Temp when Stress Testing ?
What was MAX CPU Temp when Stress Testing ?
If bluescreen, what is the error code ?
|
David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 03:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: joodner
For all thoses that are crashing or worried about overheating ...
Have you run a system stress test and monitored all temps ?
e.g run Prime on all Cores and a GPU Benchmark for 2-3 hours while watching all system temps ?
Run MEMTEST ?
Now if your getting Blue screens, follow up on the errors or post the exact error code here.
I will bet that 95%+ of all Blue screens will be hardware faults or crap drivers loaded somewhere (not the main drivers norm, but a crappy chipset / printer/scanner etc that was installed ages ago and fogotten about).
If your really worried about killing any compnent in your PC , then get pro active about it, start monitoring all temps and STRESS TEST THE SYSTEM outside of EVE. Double check all fans in the case are working / cleaned of dust and gunk. Are all the fans operating the correct way ? (fronts should pull in clean air from outside. Back and top fans should be pushing hot air from inside out).
Without more information, its hard to track down and resolve any issue.
So if you crash/lockup/bluescreen...
What make / model /driver version GPU ?
What Make / Model CPU ?
What is GPU Temp IDLE ?
What is CPU Temp IDLE ?
What was Max GPU Temp in EVE before Crash ?
What was Max CPU Temp in EVE before Crash ?
What was MAX GPU Temp when Stress Testing ?
What was MAX CPU Temp when Stress Testing ?
If bluescreen, what is the error code ?
sadly i never got bluescreens i just got freeze n sound loop until reboot.......... the new nvidia chipset and i stress chipset not graphics card, drivers work for me
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Apollo Gabriel
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 06:15:00 -
[72]
sadly my laptop video card fried. I have never overclocked it that I know of, not do I know about my video settings since I can't run eve now or anything else.
I was so excited that I passed the shader 2 test.
How can I make sure my system doesn't fry?
|
Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 06:36:00 -
[73]
Originally by: David Grogan
almost 5hrs now still running with 2 ac on medium shader high texture no crashes since new nvidia chipset (nforce 750a sli driver package) released yesterday march 16th 2009.
they release new chipset drivers for many of the 7 series 8 series and 9 series chipsets
if u get lockups i suggest you try this
thanks for the headsup mate, cant wait to try it when I finish work 
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
|
Avaleric
Amarr
SC Special Circumstances
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 08:15:00 -
[74]
The previous large update used to cause a complete meltdown when I ran EVE and another 3D application, be that another EVE or some other game. Complete stystem crash. What I did, was to send log and diagnostics files to ATI, using the analyzers they aked me to, and a couple of weeks later, a new driver came out (was Catalyst 8.2) that fixed everything.
Since EVE now is just about the only modern game that (again) can't handle anti-aliasing, I suspect the same action is required. CCP obviously use some unstandard coding or something, that the GPU people had to adapt to. Hopefully it will pan out nicely eventually, like it did the last time around.
I am contacting ATI myself today, by the way...
- Ignorance is bliss... |
Apollo Gabriel
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 15:22:00 -
[75]
I wish graphics drivers would help, my card is dead, using software to render now, at least I was able to get my work off the machine.
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Anatal Klep
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 17:03:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Elysarian
1. TTL = 5v applied to switch "on" a transistor, CMOS = 0v applied to switch "on".
LOL. Actually TTL inputs float high so one does not need to apply any voltage to get logic 1 and 0v is circuit ground so one is not applying any voltage there either.
I was talking about the current needed to drive a logic state. That current travels between transistors and it is the main source of heat because the connecting lands are much longer than the path between the power rails through the transistor itself. No current flows when the transistor is in the default logic state for the logic family. IOW, my perspective for "on" was the circuit's, not the transistor's.
Quote:
2. Modern devices (CPU and GPU) have embedded temperature probes that are supposed to either shut them down or lower the clock speed if thermal runaway is a possibility.
You explanation of thermal runaway is just one of the ways a card can suffer heat damage.
Those "probes" you are talking about are on the power rails so they only respond to overall temperature and that with substantial delay. When the OS shuts down or the card resets, it is usually responding to that overtemperature. If there are local hot spots they may not trigger a shutdown/reset at all and, even if they do, the card may be damaged before they trigger.
[Trying to predict hot spots for placing probes locally is an exercise in futility; at best an educated guess. The gate density will be close to uniform so local hot spots will depend on what gates are likely to be on most often during operation. That, in turn, depends significantly on what is being displayed.]
Also note that repeated thermal shutdowns can result in damage in the long term anyway because the card is being highly stressed each time and damage can be cummulative. (Obviously a card reset for overtemperature is an emergency, last-resort step to avoid immediate damage.) FYI, one reason that ICs are only sample tested for load testing is so the sampled ICs can be withdrawn from the lot prior to actual use. Statistically they will have shorter life than the rest of the ICs in the lot even though they passed the load test.
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Anatal Klep
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 17:34:00 -
[77]
Originally by: David Grogan
Originally by: Hiro Apropos
Anatal Klep
That was the most succinct posts on Video Card usage I have ever read, and I thank you for increasing my knowledge of the hardware. Kudos.
yer he does tend to troll on about it alot
True. I have been described in other contexts as somemone who can describe any picture in a thousand words. Its an age thing.
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Othran
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 19:34:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Othran on 18/03/2009 19:37:18
Actually this isn't new by any means. If any of you in the UK remember the summer of 2003 we hit 35C in August and back then I had a Radeon 9800 card which despite having a 20" fan pointing at it (case off) got so hot that smd caps FELL OFF the back. The card kept working to my amazement.
I think that I see the problem with Eve and anti-aliasing. It is in fact that you'd have to redesign the environments COMPLETELY isn't it? It really doesn't have anything to do with HDR does it? Its simply that it would require a MASSIVE redesign of all the station environments - in and out - and you can't do it in a cost-effective way.
THAT is the reason that Eve "doesn't support anti-aliasing" and that is the reason that Eve looks (bar the stupid lighting that blinds you) like a 6 year old game.
I await a dev response detailing why that actually isn't the reason. I'll be willing to bet that this does not happen - not on an official basis anyway.
I'm just feeling very stupid that its taken me the best part of SIX YEARS to work this out.
Edit - and before we get the "can I haz ur stuff" posts - no you can't. I will be renewing for 6 months. It would just have been very nice had I worked this out before instead of listening to the muppets :(
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BBQ
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 20:36:00 -
[79]
I think alot of the failures could be due to the lovely nVidia fiasco that befell their laptop GPU's as a large percentage of the graphics chips are used on both laptop and desktop cards with a BIOS that reports them as different versions depending on the market.
Basically nVidia told the card and laptop makers that their chip would put out 50W of power and work at a specific themperature at maximum load and the card / laptop designers added a heatsink that ran the chip a small bit away from its maximum temp at that power output. nVidia then supplied the chips BUT they actually ran at 60W of power at full load rather than the 50W specified and they could not withstand the temperature they were rated for over extended time, this means the chips overheat due to the extra power which stresses the internal connections which were already weaker than originally planned and eventually something breaks, usually after a few months or a couple of years. The fix from people like Dell and HP was to turn the fans up higher to reduce the temperature of the chip when running to offset the extra heat produced and its now lower maximum rated temp. A similar thing happened with Intel a few years back when they tried to ramp up the very old P4 chips to 3.6GHz. The power output of the chip was on the maximum line for its rated power output and caused more than 1 system to throttle itself to protect the CPU from death (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/p4,919.html), in this case the design of the chip by Intel made sure that the CPU came to no damage as it did not overheat and stayed within its rated power.
It is not possible to overload a GPU or CPU as they have a maximum rated speed (MHZ), voltage and power output (Watts). These are tested and confirmed (sometimes wrongly, see above) and these design specs are then fed to the designers so they can design cooling systems to cater for this heat, some instructions can stress the silicone more than other, in this case CCP and DirectX seem to be using some that are pretty stressful but they will still fall within the maximum power output of the chip by design, the same as above is also done with CPU's. If the designers want to save a few pennies by using a slightly smaller heatsink and gambling on the end user not using their hardware to its limits then this can cause problems.
All modern GPU and CPU chips have the ability to lower their processor speed and voltage when the load on them is reduced, this lowers their heat output and enables them to run cooler when not needed and allows the fan to slow down and reduce its noise. When they are required to do a lot of work they will again ramp up to their design speeds and the power they put out will rise towards their maximum power output (unless overclocked, over voltaged or wrongly tested they cannot exceed their rated power output). If, for any reason, the design of the cooling is relying on the chip not running at 100% of its load all the time then eventualy the chip will overheat as it saturates the heatsink and cannot transfer this power / heat to the air quickly enough.
The short version is that all chips inside a PC should operate and be cooled within their maximum rated abilities, providing cooling that cannot cope with the maximum heat output of the chip is a false economy that will save a few bucks but in the long run can cause problems. The trouble is that people like HP, Dell etc try and reduce the airflow around things like graphics cards and CPU's to the lowest amount allowed to reduce noise and cost the upshot of which is that if you install a bigger graphics card or CPU the chances are you may need a bigger or faster intake or exhaust fan to shift the extra heat it produces out of the case. Trying to cool a hot graphics card with warm air that is stuck inside a case is not good and will cause overheating.
----
God gave us a brain, he also gave us a voice.
Shame some people have yet to connect them.
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Maevic
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 21:14:00 -
[80]
Hmm anyone any ideas?? I dont have nVidia chipset in my laptop (I have that itegrated Intel GMA950 chipset). I tried to reinstall eve, still I have the same problem (computer will be shut down cause there is a possibility of damaging your stuff...)...
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Jephir
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 21:42:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Jephir on 18/03/2009 21:42:37
EVE is not graphics intensive. That is not the problem.
What is causing these issues is that EVE does not cap framerates by default. Because of this, EVE will stress video cards beyond their limit because it forces the card to pump out hundreds of frames per second. Even the most demanding games (e.g. Crysis, etc.) will not kill video cards simply because the maximum framerate is capped (usually 30/60 fps). Running EVE on interval immediate (the default option) does not limit the maximum framerate, which can easily go into the hundreds and fry video card memory.
So, always run EVE on interval one. It should really be configured like this by default.
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Apollo Gabriel
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 00:04:00 -
[82]
Good to know if I get another working laptop
I have an ATI Radeon 600 and I dont' know about the interval settings, I will pay more attention to it. I was getting the highest frame rates I had ever gotten and was very excited.
The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long...
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Maevic
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 00:09:00 -
[83]
Hmm Ive made some 'research';]
I can run Eve all normally, I can fly from station to station, thats not a problem. I see BSOD when it comes to fight. I don know why. It happends at the moment of destroying enemy ship.
After that, error KERNEL_MODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED_M occurs (took from windows event log), and eve has some problems with ntdll.dll file (version 5.1.2600.5512).
Any ideas?
|
Grez
Minmatar
Core Contingency
Ignition.
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 02:44:00 -
[84]
All interval one does is turn vsync on. EVE cannot push your graphics card faster than it is rated without over clocking it - something which it is not doing (I left ATT open the entire session today, and not once did the numbers jump).
Forcing vsync on for everyone in EVE would **** the majority off - it is not an issue with vsync, it is an issue with some peoples cards being fault and/or their cards not being cooled properly. It could also just be down to driver issues.
Those with an NVidia card:
Update your drivers
Disable PhysX
Disable SLI
You can set a custom profile for EVE so that on start-up it will do this for you.
Those with Intel chips - you are most probably having issues with overheating - GMA's are not the speediest of things, and 99% of the time they don't even bother putting a fan over the GPU - just a naff heatsink. With crappy cooling, it's still possible to overheat these.
All you are doing by setting interval one, is enabling vertical sync. Read about V-SYNC here.
More specifically, see : "Computer games often allow vertical synchronization as an option, because it delays the image update until the vertical blanking interval. This can cause lowered frame rates due to latency (the period of the refresh rate at maximum), which might be undesirable in games that require fast response (e.g. first person shooters)."
Key word being delay - all it's doing is slowing down the output of your card. If vsync is off, all EVE is doing is requesting 100% of your graphics card - ANY modern game does this.
---
Have a rawr on me. |
RunForYourLives
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 03:19:00 -
[85]
Hey everyone,
Every time I do something in EVE that involved loading (jump gate, undock, jump bridge, etc.) my computer crashes. I have uninstalled and reinstalled everything on my computer. Undates, new drives, everything. And it still does it. If im just sitting in space of docked it works just fine. This has only started with the new patch. Anyone know if they are still working out some bugs or is the new patch just F#@*ing my computer in the A$#.
|
joodner
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 03:25:00 -
[86]
Originally by: RunForYourLives
Hey everyone,
Every time I do something in EVE that involved loading (jump gate, undock, jump bridge, etc.) my computer crashes. I have uninstalled and reinstalled everything on my computer. Undates, new drives, everything. And it still does it. If im just sitting in space of docked it works just fine. This has only started with the new patch. Anyone know if they are still working out some bugs or is the new patch just F#@*ing my computer in the A$#.
How does it crash ? complete lockup or just eve crashes ?
What event log entries are associated with the crash ?
What are you system specs
What OS ?
Have you monitored the GPU/CPU temps just prior to a crash ?
|
Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 08:58:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Grez
Those with an NVidia card:
Update your drivers
Disable PhysX
Disable SLI
You can set a custom profile for EVE so that on start-up it will do this for you.
.
Cool! I hope it works
I have filed a petition, though I guess it wont be answered for weeks, possibly over a month. How do I set up a profile, I take it is with nvidia software?
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Othran
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 13:24:00 -
[88]
BBQ - have you read Charlie's explanation of the bump problem?
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/378/1004378/why-nvidia-chips-defective
For those that are still in denial you may wish to ask yourselves why Apple would post the following on their website (note the bit where Apple basically say that NVidia are liars) :
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377
Oh and Grez - you're wrong. Totally.
|
da Hawk
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 18:54:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
Originally by: Maevic
Hi there
I have really similiar problem. After few seconds of play, game freezes, then the sound loops, and after few seconds I get nice blue screen saying that computer will be reboot cause there's risk of hardware damaging. (I dont know if it is important, but word 'serial.sys' was there among many strange digits;])
Im playing on samsung q35 laptop (with GMA950 integrated graphic chipset) on Win XP SP3.
I had almost no problems with that. I played Apocrypha and it was ok. Yesterday those problems occured. I dont know why now.
I think I had some cooling problem (there was a time I wasn't able to run computer after long operation, cause it was too hot). Temperature is about 90 degrees, but as I checked it is normal operating temperature.
Right now I dont think its a problem with cooling - I can start laptop, and when it's still cold, when I run eve, everything crashes...
My problem exactly, I get blue screen too. My PC is more than powerful enough to run EVE.
Intel Quad Core QX6850 3GHz @ 3.73GHz
Nvidia GeForce 8800GTX 768MB x2 in SLi
4096MB DDR2 800MHz RAM @ 1066MHz
2x 160GB 10,000RPM Raptor HDD's
1x 96GB 10,000RPM Raptor HDD
1x 500GB 7,200RPM Seagate HDD
SoundBlaster X-Fi XtremeMusic
PhysX Card 128MB PCI Edition
1000Watt Dell PSU
same happend to me, i have a Dell XPS 1330 Laptop with Nvidia 8400...
Was playing eve, got bluescreen (hardware damage ...) and now the card is fried :(
Dell said the will send a technican to repair it.
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Anatal Klep
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 20:03:00 -
[90]
Originally by: BBQ
It is not possible to overload a GPU or CPU as they have a maximum rated speed (MHZ), voltage and power output (Watts).
Grrr. This urban legend keeps coming up again and again.
Output power is almost completely irrelevant. The output power is fully determined by what is directly connected to the output pins. Thus I could take the outputs of the board's last gates and connect them to a bank of SCRs that would pump out hundreds of amps at KVs. But the heat generated in the card itself would be unaffected. What counts is the power consumed by the card as it operates; that is what gets converted into heat. (That's also why the failsafe sensors are on the power rails, not the outputs.)
Nobody overvoltages inputs or power rails; that is a guaranteed disaster. Some computers overclock, but not very many.
The power consumed depends primarily on how many gates are being driven and for how long. That, in turn, depends on what the card is actually doing (i.e., how its inputs are being stimulated). And it will also depend on how the overdriven gates are distributed on the card (local hot spots).
That is generally not predictable for any complex digitial hardware, even with todays advanced simulators. So designers make an educated guess, add a safety factor, write a load spec for peak and sustained loads, and put some sensors on the power rails. Those educated guesses are usually pretty good so it is very difficult to overdrive a graphics card for sustained periods in normal applications. BUT IT CAN BE DONE, especially if the application software has a bug so that it is not making "normal" requests.
Quote:
All modern GPU and CPU chips have the ability to lower their processor speed and voltage when the load on them is reduced, this lowers their heat output and enables them to run cooler when not needed and allows the fan to slow down and reduce its noise.
True. But the primary purpose is to allow heat that was generated during peak load to dissipate quickly to the heat sink when the load is not as great.
Quote:
The short version is that all chips inside a PC should operate and be cooled within their maximum rated abilities, providing cooling that cannot cope with the maximum heat output of the chip is a false economy that will save a few bucks but in the long run can cause problems. The trouble is that people like HP, Dell etc try and reduce the airflow around things like graphics cards and CPU's to the lowest amount allowed to reduce noise and cost the upshot of which is that if you install a bigger graphics card or CPU the chances are you may need a bigger or faster intake or exhaust fan to shift the extra heat it produces out of the case. Trying to cool a hot graphics card with warm air that is stuck inside a case is not good and will cause overheating.
Note that outside of laptops, modern high-performance graphics cards usually provide their own heat sinks and fans. So the computer designers really can't be blamed for cooling problems any more.
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Anatal Klep
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 20:12:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Jephir
Edited by: Jephir on 18/03/2009 21:42:37
EVE is not graphics intensive. That is not the problem.
Actually, I think it is in fleet combat with the camera zoomed in. The graphics are comparable to what I see in high-end FPSes.
Quote:
What is causing these issues is that EVE does not cap framerates by default. Because of this, EVE will stress video cards beyond their limit because it forces the card to pump out hundreds of frames per second. Even the most demanding games (e.g. Crysis, etc.) will not kill video cards simply because the maximum framerate is capped (usually 30/60 fps). Running EVE on interval immediate (the default option) does not limit the maximum framerate, which can easily go into the hundreds and fry video card memory.
So, always run EVE on interval one. It should really be configured like this by default.
This is a very plausible explanation. High FPS when docked or logging in is very suspicious. But the most telling is that setting interval = 1 seems to work well.
|
Anatal Klep
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 20:51:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Grez
Those with an NVidia card:
Update your drivers
Disable PhysX
Disable SLI
You can set a custom profile for EVE so that on start-up it will do this for you.
That' fine if NVIDIA's drivers are buggy. But what if the drivers are fine and EVE is just not using them correctly? If EVE is the problem, then this is just as bad a solution as vsync; it works by sacrificing desirable functionality
Quote:
More specifically, see : "Computer games often allow vertical synchronization as an option, because it delays the image update until the vertical blanking interval. This can cause lowered frame rates due to latency (the period of the refresh rate at maximum), which might be undesirable in games that require fast response (e.g. first person shooters)."
Key word being delay - all it's doing is slowing down the output of your card. If vsync is off, all EVE is doing is requesting 100% of your graphics card - ANY modern game does this.
I agree vsync should not be the fix because it is working for the wrong reason. To slow down the output, the card needs to slow down the processing of the inputs. That effectively caps FPS and reduces the load as a side effect. The mechanism is unsatisfactory because it precludes peak loads when needed.
The question is: why is the load so high that it needs to be reduced?
One answer is that there is insufficient cooling. Certain for a few machines but rare for most unless one's cat is in the habit of sleeping on the fans.
Another answer is that NVIDIA's drivers are screwed up. Possible but that doesn't account for people with other cards having the same problems or that machines with NVIDIA cards can run other games than EVE without problems.
Yet another answer is that CCP has one or more client bugs. Possible for large values of 'likely'.
|
St'oto
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 21:06:00 -
[93]
I have no problem with eve. my specs :
AMD Athlon xp 64 x2 4200+
Dual XFX Nvidia Geforce 8800 GT Alpha dog edition(SLI Mode on most games)
A8n-SLI Premium mobo(NForce4 chipset I beleive)
2gigs of DDR400 ram(yea complete ****e ram but does the job)
onboard sound
Windows XP SP2
I DO NOT RUN SLI IN EVE.
Eve is the only game I do not run SLI in and I have no problems at all. The fans on my GPU may spin alittle louder then usual but so far no problems.
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 21:11:00 -
[94]
I've wrecked a couple of computer playing eve. Not really a design issue with the computers but the shear number of hours running on full load. You get similar issues running programs that set the cpu at 100% for months at a time.
I think I'll set interval 1 for the laptop just to get the noise level down. The change in frame rate won't have any effect for most of what I do.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven
this thread is obviously going places
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Arfvedson
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 22:25:00 -
[95]
Alot of peoples problems can be helped with some maint on their part, and some info from them.
Everyone should have some sort of temperature monitoring software on their computer where they can get to it quickly. If you dont, your sucking.
The new nvidia drivers are causing problems. If it's causing a problem with you, roll it back...
If your computer is doing the black screen --> restart thing. Go into control panel and tell it to show you the blue screen of death and tell us the error your getting.
Physix is causing problems. If it's causing a problem for you, disable it...
Right now, alot of OC (even factory OC) cards are having problems. I was getting the black screen of restart with a GTX285OC2. After setting up to see the bsod, I was getting the NVLDDMKM.SYS error like ALOT of ppl that get the black restart problem. The solution was/is I had to downlock my video card because the drivers were having problems with the oc.
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Jephir
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 23:52:00 -
[96]
Again, it's not drivers or PhysX that is causing this problem. The problem is that EVE does not limit the maximum framerate that is being rendered.
Don't believe me? Install Fraps on your computer, set interval immediate, and launch EVE. Both in space and in stations you can easily go into hundreds of frames per second.
Excessively high framerate stresses the video card memory, often burning out the RAM chips on the video card. RAM chips are extremely vulnerable because they are not directly cooled by the video card fan, they only have heatsinks. Many laptops don't even have video RAM heatsinks because of weight or size restrictions.
Updating your video card drivers or increasing fan speed does nothing because in most cases it does not cool video RAM. This is why EVE can often damage laptop computers, as the video RAM on these machines don't have large enough heatsinks, if they have heatsinks at all.
Interval one solves this problem by turning on V-Sync, which in effect, caps the maximum framerate of the game. Really, everyone should run interval one, there is not a single person I know that can distinguish framerates above 60 frames per second.
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Khlitouris RegusII
|
Posted - 2009.03.20 01:32:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
I have read some threads, and have tried sevral stuff. I have tried to run EVE in safe mode, I have tried to disable sound and other options regarding graphicss but nothing works.
EVE always freezes my computer after a few minutes in space, the freeze also frezes the sound so the sound enters a loop. I'm fairly sure the error is with the client because all other games runs perfectly on my computer. I cant find anything in the issues thread, and a petition will mostly take a long time because of the new expansion.
Anyone have similar problems?
I'm having a similar issue check event viewer and see if it has anything about faulting module python25.dll
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Lifelongnoob
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Posted - 2009.03.20 11:56:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Lifelongnoob on 20/03/2009 11:56:06
thankfully ive had not crashes since the chipset driver update.... on my system
AMD Athlon x2 6000+ with 3gb ddr2 pc-6400 ram and asus m3n h/hdmi motherboard with onboard 8300 gpu and 750a hybrid sli function, also an xfx 8500gt 512mb gacrd and vista x64.
i can now run 4 clients from my pc and while the 8500gt gpu get a lil hot it never climbs over 85 degrees c at the mo (next week my pc will have 6gb ddr2 ram and that 8500gt card will have a Zalman dual heatpipe & fan cooling it instead of the stock xfx one so i expect a drop in avg temps there)
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Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.25 07:06:00 -
[99]
Chipset uppdate did nothing for me, and my petition could not be solved. now I must file a bug report :|
At least I can change skills.
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Grez
Minmatar
Core Contingency
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Posted - 2009.03.25 07:23:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Jephir
Again, it's not drivers or PhysX that is causing this problem. The problem is that EVE does not limit the maximum framerate that is being rendered.
No modern game caps FPS. Excessively high FPS is a byproduct of the game requesting 100% workload from your system, again something all modern games do.
Take this example:
A Geforce FX 5200 will get possibly 10 fps. A Geforce 295 will get about 250 fps.
They're still both working at 100% load.
I wish people would stop showing general ignorance in the area of electronics and graphics card components. They are designed to be worked at 100% load for hours an hours on end, even days. If your card has poor build quality due to a crappy manufacturer, then that's an issue with your card, not with EVE.
My EVE displays up to 210 fps, yet it's never burnt itself out - because there's nothing wrong with that.
I can create a small C++ program that will output in excess of 2000 fps, yet it won't burn the graphics card.
God, how I wish people would stop blabbering on about what they are clueless about.
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Have a rawr on me. |
Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.25 09:13:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Haraldhardrade on 25/03/2009 09:14:51
Edited by: Haraldhardrade on 25/03/2009 09:14:03
I tried disabling PhysX but it didnt work. Would you describe Nvidia as a crap card maker?
Quote:
If your graphics card is overheating due to EVE, then you need to search out a adequate cooling solution. Feel absolutely free to run something like 3D mark for 24 hours and watch your machine crash and burn if it dies on EVE after a few hours or even minutes.
Why does games that require more resources run perfectly on my rig, but EVE does not?
I'm currently running Empire total war on max without any slowdowns what so ever.
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Grez
Minmatar
Core Contingency
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:10:00 -
[102]
Could be that Empire is slightly more CPU dependant. Could be that the GPU ends up waiting for the CPU most of the time. Anything could explain it.
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Have a rawr on me. |
Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:29:00 -
[103]
This bugs me out, I really wnated to explore wormholes
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Vogg
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.26 16:26:00 -
[104]
Just wanted to report that I am experiencing similar problems. On a whim, ended up re-subbing to EVE last night. After attempting to play, a few minutes the computer freezes with the sound loop.
I have not tried updating chipset drivers yet, but will look into it. There is alot of good suggestions in this thread, so bumping up this thread. This is the only game I have played that has caused this. Luckily no fried video card yet though! lol! Just to give people an idea about my specs:
Intel Q6600 OC'd to 3ghz
8GB DDR2 800 RAM
2x 8800GTs (Running SLI, but will attempt to disable it tonight to see if it results in any success)
Thanks again for the suggestions in this thread, and if anyone else has some ideas to throw out as well, could definitely use them!
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Diabito
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.26 16:51:00 -
[105]
Hi there I was having some problems with the game to, could not run the game, like 5 minutes then I would get a black screen and after another minute I was getting another black screen and then again and puff froze, but that hole problem was because of the graphic card.
Then I changed my graphics card and another problem comes out of the blue :) This time a heating problem, only did noticed the heat problem because I changed the motherboard, was with a broken pin on the cpu cooler and was hitting 71¦.
You can also test your memory's with golden memory to see if the memory is ok.
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Vogg
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.27 17:07:00 -
[106]
Well, after updating chipset drivers, and turning on vsync, I was able to play the game without problems. I will try to disable vsync tonight and see if the issue occurs again. *keeps fingers crossed*
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Miles Apart
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Posted - 2009.03.28 11:27:00 -
[107]
You are correct that running a GFX card at 100% shouldnt cause any problems - providing it is cooled sufficiently.
However, there is *no* point running at a framerate beyond the vertical refresh of the monitor - you wont see the extra frames! Therefore, you may be running at 210 FPS, but its unlikely you are seeing more than 60-90 of them. Those other frames are simply wasted GPU cycles.
Originally by: Grez
Edited by: Grez on 25/03/2009 07:26:58
Originally by: Jephir
Again, it's not drivers or PhysX that is causing this problem. The problem is that EVE does not limit the maximum framerate that is being rendered.
No modern game caps FPS. Excessively high FPS is a byproduct of the game requesting 100% workload from your system, again something all modern games do.
Take this example:
A Geforce FX 5200 will get possibly 10 fps. A Geforce 295 will get about 250 fps.
They're still both working at 100% load.
I wish people would stop showing general ignorance in the area of electronics and graphics card components. They are designed to be worked at 100% load for hours an hours on end, even days. If your card has poor build quality due to a crappy manufacturer, then that's an issue with your card, not with EVE.
My EVE displays up to 210 fps, yet it's never burnt itself out - because there's nothing wrong with that.
I can create a small C++ program that will output in excess of 2000 fps, yet it won't burn the graphics card.
God, how I wish people would stop blabbering on about what they are clueless about.
If your graphics card is overheating due to EVE, then you need to search out a adequate cooling solution. Feel absolutely free to run something like 3D mark for 24 hours and watch your machine crash and burn if it dies on EVE after a few hours or even minutes.
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Del369
Caldari
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.28 15:03:00 -
[108]
Actually Eve popped my psu a few weeks ago, old pc was a non oc'd dual core 4200+ with 4gb ddr2 and a 512mb ati card, basically the there was a pop, tripped the fuse back everything else came on cept the pc, psu was well fried  bought a new system the other week, put together myself, and omg 280 - 300 fps right now sitting at the 9cg gate
if you can afford it, i just have to recommend this:-
asrocks p45r000 mobo
8gb's ddr3 ram (ocz 12800 i think)
q9550 (2.83) oc'd @ 3.2
saphire 1gb 4850
haf 932 case with 4 fans
vista 64
This thing is just screaming
oh yea temps right now
system 31
cpu 29
hard drive 31
core 0 30
core 1 29
core 2 41
core 3 41
for some reason cores 2 and 3 (3 and 4 basically) never go above or below 41
and current fps is bouncing between 280 and 300 lol.
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Ara Veritas
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Posted - 2009.03.28 18:16:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Jephir
Edited by: Jephir on 18/03/2009 21:42:37
EVE is not graphics intensive. That is not the problem.
What is causing these issues is that EVE does not cap framerates by default. Because of this, EVE will stress video cards beyond their limit because it forces the card to pump out hundreds of frames per second. Even the most demanding games (e.g. Crysis, etc.) will not kill video cards simply because the maximum framerate is capped (usually 30/60 fps). Running EVE on interval immediate (the default option) does not limit the maximum framerate, which can easily go into the hundreds and fry video card memory.
So, always run EVE on interval one. It should really be configured like this by default.
If your card crashes because you get 300+ FPS, it is not EVE's fault.
Games like Crysis do not cap your FPS, Vsync does, and in many games you can turn on or off this option, you can also turn this on and off in your drivers.
Vsync was not made for capping your FPS, it was made for bringing your FPS in line with your monitor refresh rate, otherwise you can get screen tearing ( because FPS are too fast for your Monitor ).
Besides that, a demanding game with low FPS stresses the GPU as hard or harder then a less demanding game with high FPS.
Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh
Active @ EvE Online
Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom
Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC |
CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Ara Veritas
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Posted - 2009.03.28 18:17:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Grez
Edited by: Grez on 25/03/2009 07:26:58
Originally by: Jephir
Again, it's not drivers or PhysX that is causing this problem. The problem is that EVE does not limit the maximum framerate that is being rendered.
No modern game caps FPS. Excessively high FPS is a byproduct of the game requesting 100% workload from your system, again something all modern games do.
Take this example:
A Geforce FX 5200 will get possibly 10 fps. A Geforce 295 will get about 250 fps.
They're still both working at 100% load.
I wish people would stop showing general ignorance in the area of electronics and graphics card components. They are designed to be worked at 100% load for hours an hours on end, even days. If your card has poor build quality due to a crappy manufacturer, then that's an issue with your card, not with EVE.
My EVE displays up to 210 fps, yet it's never burnt itself out - because there's nothing wrong with that.
I can create a small C++ program that will output in excess of 2000 fps, yet it won't burn the graphics card.
God, how I wish people would stop blabbering on about what they are clueless about.
If your graphics card is overheating due to EVE, then you need to search out a adequate cooling solution. Feel absolutely free to run something like 3D mark for 24 hours and watch your machine crash and burn if it dies on EVE after a few hours or even minutes.
This
Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh
Active @ EvE Online
Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom
Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC |
CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Ara Veritas
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Posted - 2009.03.28 18:24:00 -
[111]
See, it could be that EVE stresses our GPU's, CPU's, NB's, etc more then other games, and perhaps this is because of bad programming, can be, however this does not matter, because our graphics cards and CPU's should be able to run anything we throw at it, as long as they have proper cooling, are not clocked too high and have quality parts.
Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh
Active @ EvE Online
Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom
Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC |
CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Ara Veritas
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Posted - 2009.03.28 20:30:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Anatal Klep
Originally by: joodner
Soooo eve is OC Video Cards directly...is that what your saying ? Or are you saying that Direct X killed your card ?
I am saying that EVE is driving cards outside their load spec. It doesn't matter whether DirectX is middleman or not.
Quote:
Reality is, Any software that could max out your GPU / CPU (folding software/burn in software/ benchmark software etc) would also have caused the issue had it run long enough.
Yes, for any software that ignored load specs. A crash primer on HW and R-T/E...
Unless CCP has written their software to overclock, overvoltage or reprogram your bios, the chances that EVE will damage your hardware are nearly non-existent.
The story about running beyond load spec, is just that, a story, unless you can prove me otherwise with a link to a white paper from Nvidia, AMD(ATI) or Intel.
CPU's and GPU's are made to run on max load for extended periods of time, it is not possible for software to have too heavy load on your CPU or GPU.
I agree with the posters here that say that the problem is faulthy hardware or bad cooling, which is triggered by EVE online, possibly because less good programming stressed the GPU harder then before a certain patch.
Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh
Active @ EvE Online
Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom
Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC |
CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Ara Veritas
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Posted - 2009.03.28 20:33:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Anatal Klep
This is a very plausible explanation. High FPS when docked or logging in is very suspicious. But the most telling is that setting interval = 1 seems to work well.
OMG now you are seriously talking out of your arse ...
High FPS when docked or logging in is very suspicious ... lol ...
Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh
Active @ EvE Online
Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom
Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC |
Kessiaan
Minmatar
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.03.28 20:52:00 -
[114]
I think it's fairly well known that EvE will spin your GPU (or your CPU under the old classic client) at 100% if you don't set your preset interval to one.
That said, if your hardware explodes under 100% sustained load that's not CCP's fault - consumer level equipment should be able to sustain 100% use indefinitely - the average Joe doesn't know how to monitor temps, modify advanced settings, etc and that's the person the equipment is designed for.
If your CPU overheats and dies, or your GPU overheats and dies, you should be complaining to the manufacturer of your computer and/or individual items.
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Athenos Sivou
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Posted - 2009.03.29 04:43:00 -
[115]
Well thats what happens to people who use sub-standard computers, technology changes, very quickly, keep with the times, you have only yourself to blame. You should be thanking CCP, if it wasnt for them, who knows, you may still be in the dark ages and wouldnt have recieved the sign to upgrade.
:)
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Shereza
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Posted - 2009.03.29 07:05:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Thorleck
Originally by: Hojne
Be happy your computer is still working.
Mine just died during playing and after restarting computer, the gfx card was not operational.
Tried it in a different computer and still black screen.
I think I am the first eve player that actually got computer component destroyed by CCP.
Hope your problem gets sorted.
that is abviously a coincidance sofweare can not break hardware unless it overclocking sofware. and eve does not overclock anithing you card was most probably already about to die, and the strain pusshed it over the edge.
You know, I'd be tempted to believe that if it weren't for one little incident.
Years upon years ago I had an SNES. A wonderful tool that provided hours upon hours of pleasure and worked fine. Then I found out about some of the various bugs in Final Fantasy 3 and started exploiting them. They caused all sorts of side-effects and some of the worst were random small-scale graphical anomalies in any non-Mode-7 graphics environment.
I didn't think much of it until one day I was playing the game and had the anomalies pop up without abusing a bug. Then I noticed them showing up in my other games as well, games which had been working just fine.
So, the question is, what happened? Did FF3 damage my SNES, was it defective and this somehow didn't show up until I was, quite coincidentally, abusing a bug that caused the same problems with graphics, or did the system instead damage all of my games? The system being defective and futzing out in a fashion that had symptoms exactly like many of the results of bug abuse is a little too coincidental for my taste and while it ought to be hard if not impossible for software to damage hardware when the software is on a separate stand-alone unit and in ROM format it should be equally hard to impossible for hardware to damage software.
So, given those three equally unlikely probabilities I choose to believe it was the software bug abuse that screwed up with the graphics in the system and based on that I submit that it is possible, though not very likely, that EVE could damage computer hardware.
On a side note, when the game locks up on me it does a black screen of death that also screws with the audio fit to damage my speakers, ear bugs, and ears so at the very least it can damage peripherals and people.
____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
joodner
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Posted - 2009.03.29 11:51:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Shereza
Originally by: Thorleck
Originally by: Hojne
Be happy your computer is still working.
Mine just died during playing and after restarting computer, the gfx card was not operational.
Tried it in a different computer and still black screen.
I think I am the first eve player that actually got computer component destroyed by CCP.
Hope your problem gets sorted.
that is abviously a coincidance sofweare can not break hardware unless it overclocking sofware. and eve does not overclock anithing you card was most probably already about to die, and the strain pusshed it over the edge.
You know, I'd be tempted to believe that if it weren't for one little incident.
Years upon years ago I had an SNES. A wonderful tool that provided hours upon hours of pleasure and worked fine. Then I found out about some of the various bugs in Final Fantasy 3 and started exploiting them. They caused all sorts of side-effects and some of the worst were random small-scale graphical anomalies in any non-Mode-7 graphics environment.
I didn't think much of it until one day I was playing the game and had the anomalies pop up without abusing a bug. Then I noticed them showing up in my other games as well, games which had been working just fine.
So, the question is, what happened? Did FF3 damage my SNES, was it defective and this somehow didn't show up until I was, quite coincidentally, abusing a bug that caused the same problems with graphics, or did the system instead damage all of my games? The system being defective and futzing out in a fashion that had symptoms exactly like many of the results of bug abuse is a little too coincidental for my taste and while it ought to be hard if not impossible for software to damage hardware when the software is on a separate stand-alone unit and in ROM format it should be equally hard to impossible for hardware to damage software.
So, given those three equally unlikely probabilities I choose to believe it was the software bug abuse that screwed up with the graphics in the system and based on that I submit that it is possible, though not very likely, that EVE could damage computer hardware.
On a side note, when the game locks up on me it does a black screen of death that also screws with the audio fit to damage my speakers, ear bugs, and ears so at the very least it can damage peripherals and people.
Please, More stories like this.
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Hussain
Gallente
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.29 17:40:00 -
[118]
Well guys consider the following Eve rarely crashed on me before Apocrypha now its every 15 mins.
I didnt change a thing regarding hardware in the meentime.
And when one or two guys complain about crashes or the guys complaining have similar hardware the crashes are probbaly theirs or their hardware fault.
But when a lot of guys complain and their hardware does not match.... well MAYBE thats not the problem.
Look elsewere.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.06.01 10:35:00 -
[119]
Sorry to Necro the thread but it is the most relevant one i have found to some rather disastrous issues i had been having.
I used to have a 8800GTS 640. Emphasis on used, which is to say EVE ate it.
Default Interval was set and i know at one point i was rendering 170+ FPS in stations  , so i can probably say the EVE was stressing the card.
I now use 9600GTS 512, Default interval is 1 so hopefully v.synch will stop me from cooking my card- i expect no issues with running at refresh rate.
Is it advisable to disable Phys-x or has that not shown issues with this card and EVE?
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
it does get progressively longer.
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Xelios
Minmatar
Broski Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.06.01 11:31:00 -
[120]
Furmark
HWMonitor.
Watch your card burn 
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.06.01 12:34:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Xelios
Furmark
HWMonitor.
Watch your card burn
Core 2 duo e6400 running at 75-78 Degrees C...idle.
Hmmm.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
it does get progressively longer.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.06.01 14:38:00 -
[122]
This thread is a prime example that people will believe any unsubstantiated BS as long as it supports their point of view and sounds 'technical'. Even better if it absolves them of being responsible for their predicament.
I noticed that CCP reset the v-sync in the graphics options to be on by default with Apoc 1.1 to save those with substandard hardware from themselves (and themselves from the gullible and ignorant).
...
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