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Sky Grunthor Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:25:00 - [61] Not to bring this section of the debate farther. But could we please stop the "petty name calling" issues. I don't think I or any of FOOM started calling WOLFY or anyone else petty names...(won't go saying that categorically as I'm not omniscient) Well PERV invites it but that's their giggles. And as to those that have done the petty name calling. target them specifically instead of getting all heated up at the undeserved. So please stop acting and posting as if we have, or at least lets forgive and forget in that regard. I think all of this argument over what is fun and where the fight is in FacWar comes down to this. FOOM et all have a definition of what FacWar is. We believe its the correct one. But, EVE is a sandbox. So if its not your definition. Well, its EVE, so play by your own definition. We still reserve the right to think its wrong and that you don't get it. However, you also think we don't get it. I guess we are even there. ------------------------------------------------- Search: Sky Grunthor
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.03.25 20:13:00 - [62] Edited by: Raimo on 25/03/2009 20:17:59 Originally by: IronGoldenEagle Originally by: Mitch Taylor However in a stand up fight of blob vs blob the caldari cant seem the get the upper hand without some outside influence, be it private wardecs against big hitters or just avoidance techniques. LOL You realize in the last two POS fights in Tama you had BYDI reinforce the tower and a combined GAL and BYDI fleet showed up to kill it and died. Then in the secind you had Swigg do 75% of the work and you just manned the guns and got a spy in, and had like 2 BSs. Your a fine dude mitch but please those facts are undisputed and I cant think of anyone who helps us save the occasional neut or 2. LOL WTF? We talking about Psyflame's small POS? BYDI didn't reinforce the tower, a small WOLFY RR gang did... And about the big lolfight at our POS, I'm infuriated that it happened 30 minutes before I logged on! Sigh, "I went to TAMA and all I got was this lousy remote hull repping skillbook"! (In other words, please do it again squiddies! Oh, and I don't think Mitch was around for any of this POS business... Undisputed facts and all.) ---
Niskin Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.03.25 20:52:00 - [63] Originally by: Parmenides Elea You see thats why we're not getting any kills evil, we're just playground bullies and we're approaching FW completely wrong. We bow to the superior knowledge of FOOM, of course killboards show a slightly different picture. You do things your way (orbit a beacon for 15mins) and we'll do it our way (small gang pvp), no need to resort to name calling is there. You misunderstood the analogy, and I wasn't calling anybody any names. What I am saying is that if you want a fight, you might get one by roaming around and looking for one. However if you present your opponents with a challenge you won't have to go looking for one, it will come to you. Capturing plexes tells the other side "This system is mine and you can't have it" to which they will respond "ORLY" and then come and try to prove you wrong. It's nothing to do with bullies and everything to do with conflict. Creating conflict will bring battles to you, plexing is a way to do that. You can do whatever you want, it doesn't affect me, but it doesn't change the fact that plexing is a functional mechanic for creating conflict. Originally by: EVIL SYNNS FOOM captured a whole constellation (mostly) on their own. But couldn't hold it. And as you said your A.D.D. got the better of you. I understand.. IN FACT THATS WHAT I AM SAYING! We were in Black Rise as a forward op, in enemy territory trying to take it from them. While doing so the Gallente Militia proved that they would not or could not hold the home territory. We left Black Rise to go home and start taking back that territory. By that time the Caldari had become more organized and several corps were working together. Between burnout and A.D.D. or whatever we ended up in a stalemate and since the Gallente Militia still wasn't doing much to help we decided it was time to move on. ------------- I am the n00b that time forgot.
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.03.25 23:22:00 - [64] Edited by: Mitch Taylor on 25/03/2009 23:22:30 Originally by: IronGoldenEagle Originally by: Mitch Taylor However in a stand up fight of blob vs blob the caldari cant seem the get the upper hand without some outside influence, be it private wardecs against big hitters or just avoidance techniques. LOL You realize in the last two POS fights in Tama you had BYDI reinforce the tower and a combined GAL and BYDI fleet showed up to kill it and died. Then in the secind you had Swigg do 75% of the work and you just manned the guns and got a spy in, and had like 2 BSs. Your a fine dude mitch but please those facts are undisputed and I cant think of anyone who helps us save the occasional neut or 2. I started copying and pasting killboard links, then my kickboxing girlfriend asked me to take her for a spin in my ferrari. The Dark is Rising...
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.03.25 23:48:00 - [65] Originally by: Mitch Taylor Edited by: Mitch Taylor on 25/03/2009 23:22:30 Originally by: IronGoldenEagle Originally by: Mitch Taylor However in a stand up fight of blob vs blob the caldari cant seem the get the upper hand without some outside influence, be it private wardecs against big hitters or just avoidance techniques. LOL You realize in the last two POS fights in Tama you had BYDI reinforce the tower and a combined GAL and BYDI fleet showed up to kill it and died. Then in the secind you had Swigg do 75% of the work and you just manned the guns and got a spy in, and had like 2 BSs. Your a fine dude mitch but please those facts are undisputed and I cant think of anyone who helps us save the occasional neut or 2. I started copying and pasting killboard links, then my kickboxing girlfriend asked me to take her for a spin in my ferrari. Your dating my mother?> yeah facts are.. We attacked a small POS in tama who we knew was a caldari alt corp. We put it into reinforced (very little defense). It came out at silly time on Sunday morning. We called an alarm clock op (or in most cases a all nighter bender). About 3 hours before it came out of reinforced with all the caldari repping the guns and stuff BYDI hot dropped. However they left and logged out (we were watching them). Then the fight on the station where 27 Other Galletes and 14 WOLFY had a fight (I won't say how many, but we were out numbered) but being up all night we needed to do something. The alt corp then put up a LARGE POS with lots of guns. Which I'm pleased to announce has now been left defenseless as we have incappacitated all the guns, web, scram, neuts. And started shooting the POS. Hoping for the fight ... No fight 8-( So we will go back to shooting anything trying to rep it. Until such a time as we deem. Dem the facts about the POS. Oh yeah alt corp.. have a look in Kedama WE HAS A POS THERE TOO.. wonder what we needing that for? MOON MINING HERE WE COME \0/ will your caldari army help you defend that nice valued moon.. Lets see!
Vincent Death Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2009.03.26 00:46:00 - [66] Originally by: EVIL SYNNs I lie in bed thinking.. PLEXING OR NOT TO PLEX. Then the answer hit me HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE EMO RAGED QUIT BECAUSE THEY LOST A CEPTOR/FRIG/CRUISER or LOST A SYSTEM IN FW? very few if any. Yet the number of people I am watching in Caldari Militia Chat who a whining and crying all about Tama, about attacking a POS, about Spys. ITS HILARIOUS.. now thats why I play EVE Tbh if you can get these idiots to leave the Caldari Militia we will probably win more fights... The proper name for a social system based on political freedom is capitalism.
Flashh Gorden Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2009.03.26 09:32:00 - [67] If we had Foom on ourside right now im pretty sure the feds wouldnt own a single system in low sec. I would like to say its a shame they picked the wrong side,but since it was Fooms actions alone that forced us to be as organised as we are today we should apreciate the fact they were oppenents.
Droog 1	Posted - 2009.03.26 12:48:00 - [68] Originally by: Flashh Gorden If we had Foom on ourside right now im pretty sure the feds wouldnt own a single system in low sec. If Squids owned all of BR I'm pretty sure nobody would care. Squids have 4736 members. I'm pretty sure that if the Gallente had same numbers the Caldari militia wouldn't even be able to get into losec.
Vincent Death Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2009.03.26 14:15:00 - [69] Originally by: Droog 1 Originally by: Flashh Gorden If we had Foom on ourside right now im pretty sure the feds wouldnt own a single system in low sec. If Squids owned all of BR I'm pretty sure nobody would care. Squids have 4736 members. I'm pretty sure that if the Gallente had same numbers the Caldari militia wouldn't even be able to get into losec. Funny thing is that although nobody on your side cares you always seem to chime in whenever the subject gets brought up. But of course I don't care about your opinion which is why I took the time to read and respond to it. The proper name for a social system based on political freedom is capitalism.
Niskin Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.03.26 14:43:00 - [70] Originally by: Droog 1 Squids have 4736 members. I'm pretty sure that if the Gallente had same numbers they would still just roam up to Tama once a day, get in a laggy fleet fight and then go home *ing about lag. Fixed that for you. ------------- I am the n00b that time forgot.
Corewin NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.03.26 15:49:00 - [71] Simply stating that the number of pilots in the Caldari militia is the reason for any Gallente misgivings is a gross example of someone looking for useless excuses. Not only is the Caldari militia bloated with inactive characters and some corps filled to the brim with alts and carebears, but any number refering to active pilots on at any given time is a misrepresentation of the true number of milita members willing to do anything. I call it the "10 Percent Rule", where in at any given time only a 1/10th faction of the militia would be willing to participate in an operation. This Rule, is of course excluding those solo/plexers which have been curb stomping across space as of late. I do not think the Gallente Militia is doing badly, quite the opposite in certain encounters, however I cannot say they are doing very well either. From a Fleet vs Fleet perspective, both sides are generally dead locked. Where as, a certain level of engagment fear has gripped both sides, prompting both to do things which eliminate the possibity of a battle happening. The Gallente fleets in the "blob" category, happen only at random times throughout the week, usually consisting of only heavy tank/damage ships, which exceed the fleet size of a rapid response force, leading to the Gallente becoming bored and returning home before the counter fleet arrives. The majority of Gallente operations within the last few weeks have been imprompto carrier based engagments in Heyd, which usually end as quickly as they start when the carrier docks and the support does the same or bugs out. Caldari fleets tend to happen every night around the same times, with slight fleet size increases depending on the day of the week. More battles have been waged between pirate fleets and the Caldari, than the Gallente and Caldari this month. It is hardly a matter of convience, when many of these pirate fights have occured deep within Gallente controlled space itself. The lack of fights to be had has in some cases driven the Caldari to find other targets to try their hand in, such as POS warfare, which I would agree is a massive waste of time (and ships). However, dispite the rather extensive fleet operational time the Caldari up hold, good fights are few and far between, esspecially on the Gallente front. (Fleet fights > Ganking) but even this is a personal opinion I suppose. So hopefully it changes soon, fighting pirates is all well and good, but it doesn't give that same feeling I guess. Its been fun either way, just throwing in my two cents. -Core
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.03.26 16:01:00 - [72] Corewin, your post is complete fiction, what have you been smoking? The Dark is Rising...
Lt Mooncat	Posted - 2009.03.26 16:23:00 - [73] I thought most Complexes were just a type of Arena where new players could gather in Tech 1 Frigs and not have to worry about being slaughtered by HACs and BS. CCP have come up with a way to produce a level playing field and fair fights by limiting Ship sizes. Who holds what System is irrelevant. There are no rewards for success and no penalties for failure associated with Complexes. They really do serve no other purpose other than to get a fight. While it may be an achievement to capture Verge Vendor it does not really make much of a difference to anyone involved other than some different coloured dots on the Map. /2 cents
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2009.03.26 16:30:00 - [74] Originally by: Droog 1 Originally by: Flashh Gorden If we had Foom on ourside right now im pretty sure the feds wouldnt own a single system in low sec. If Squids owned all of BR I'm pretty sure nobody would care. Squids have 4736 members. I'm pretty sure that if the Gallente had same numbers the Caldari militia wouldn't even be able to get into losec. Sure they would, you'd just never realize they used a different entry point unless the fleet contains one of countless militia alt spies. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Antoine Lefevre Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.03.26 16:34:00 - [75] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah When I get some respect and recognition I'll be back, all I got was a lot of hate because I wanted a medal for winning a CCP sponsored contest regarding plexing for the Alliance Tournament. Hahahaha, respect and recognition for warp core stabbing plexes. If you really want to see what respect and recognition you deserve the answer is right here.
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.03.26 16:53:00 - [76] Edited by: EVIL SYNNs on 26/03/2009 16:54:27 A lot of Fiction here... Heres the way I see it, Each side thinks the other has a full and active militia, while theirs struggles to form a fleet or get a FC Each side would love to form blobs (blobs in FW > 25). However the FW lag causes people not to join up. Each side have those that plex and those that pvp. Each side has those that Only plex and those that Only pvp. Each side wants FW Missions and Plexes to be worth something, or in some way effect the other side. Each side agrees FW is an ISK sink. Each side LOVES the 5000+ War Targets they have. and not just FW its the same every where FC's rarely say "no more X's" If your side is out numbered you always fight, but the other way around they always run (thats everyones thinking, but for it to be true it has to be rubbish). so I see this as a great war. FW is GREAT, the people are GREAT! The pew pew is GREAT! The plexing needs some work (ANYONE DISAGREE TO THIS?) and I have gained a load of respect for people I never even knew existed, friend, foe and neutrals alike. I EVEN LIKE PERVS! <ITS TRUE> they crazy smack talking asses at times, but you can't knock their kill-death ratio or their plexing power. As for the status, Caldari are winning systems, Gallente are killing more (isk wise) Gallente has a higher kill/vp per member but in Eve that means nothing. But as the Caldari capture more systems it means more systems behind them can be taken back. LOGISTICS LOGISTICS LOGISTICS. Evil
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2009.03.26 20:10:00 - [77] Originally by: EVIL SYNNs so I see this as a great war. FW is GREAT, the people are GREAT! The pew pew is GREAT! The plexing needs some work (ANYONE DISAGREE TO THIS?) and I have gained a load of respect for people I never even knew existed, friend, foe and neutrals alike. I EVEN LIKE PERVS! <ITS TRUE> they crazy smack talking asses at times, but you can't knock their kill-death ratio or their plexing power. Some fun has definetly gone from war now that Ankh has returned to abuse her standings to cap plexes. I hope i'd had enough ISK to have every low-life s****in the universe to continuously harass her efforts. Damar Rocarion
Unfamed II Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.03.27 00:17:00 - [78] Originally by: Antoine Lefevre Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah When I get some respect and recognition I'll be back, all I got was a lot of hate because I wanted a medal for winning a CCP sponsored contest regarding plexing for the Alliance Tournament. Hahahaha, respect and recognition for warp core stabbing plexes. If you really want to see what respect and recognition you deserve the answer is right here. -1 keyboard +1 spilled drink +1 post count Originally by: Sandslinger of CA So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
Shalam	Posted - 2009.03.27 03:28:00 - [79] Originally by: Damar Rocarion Some fun has definetly gone from war now that Ankh has returned to abuse her standings to cap plexes. Damar Rocarion I recently joined Faction Warfare. After some indecision about fitting and which Gallente AF to chose I decided upon an Enyo for speedtanking anything above Minor plexes. I went into my first Major to test the tank, for approximately 1 minute, nothing shot at me. I seem to recall reading that if you had high Caldari standing then they wouldn't agro? (I still had about 5.0 after grinding minnie missions for a while) However after the minute passed... in come the missiles.. they have agro'd me just fine in every plex I have done since. I assume thats what you were talking about when you refer to her abusing her standings. Maybe i'm missing something.
IronGoldenEagle Orchestrated Violence	Posted - 2009.03.27 03:34:00 - [80] Agreed. Both sides whine are alot alike and theres no hate on my corps end. We like the fighting even tho is is an ISK sink and all thses guys trying to DESTROY the gallente and smacking them in local and in the forums is getting old. Smacking to get fights is perfectly legit tho
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2009.03.27 05:52:00 - [81] Originally by: Shalam I assume thats what you were talking about when you refer to her abusing her standings. Maybe i'm missing something. If you have high-enough standings, you can fly around in minor/med plexes without trouble. I tested these with an alt and had no problem grinding few plexes since I did not get shot at. However, in major plexes the NPCs seem to aggro you, at least unless you have Caldari standing through the roof. For example, me and corpie were in Tama plex when pirate rapier uncloaked. We decided to try to engage with NPC support but they did not shoot which sort of ruined our efforts. So yes, I find the standing bug really bad. NPCs in plexes should attack all neutrals and wartargets entering, no matter what.
Droog 1	Posted - 2009.03.27 12:16:00 - [82] I thought the Squids had already won the war. VICTORY Then they needed more FCs. JOIN THE SQUIDS FOR HONOUR Then they were losing. HELP Now,because they ran a few 'plexes that nobody cares about, they are winning. Go Squid militia!
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.03.27 12:59:00 - [83] Last night saw the unveiling of the WOLFY/Gallente Black Ops Fleet in Heyd. We asked for as many Bomber/ZU pilots as possible and got a fleet of 20. We sent out the zu's with they covert cyno on to go and find us a fight as we hanged around in base system. First scout reports large caldari fleet. Too large, so we move on (pirates, squids, were not picky). However the next intel was large BS heavy Pirate fleet about to jump into Heyd. So we get the cyno zu into position, and await the 3 way. Pirates warp to OMS gate, Caldari engage bait Maelstrom. And we cyno drop in 12 Bombers 100 off the gate (assuming the pirates would spread their points). We primary a Drake (calling it alphabetical) and it goes down quite nicely. Then we move on, however by now the caldari have started to shoot us.. HELLO? 30+ Battleships shooting you? Why you shooting and moving towards bombers. Anyways, the Caldari have to run (well out numbered by the pirates). And we cloak off and try and gank those running around looking to get out. We lost a few bombers (not sure if the lag why they never warped out) but its fun and a new toy for WOLFY to play with. "See a WOLFY in system, can't find his ship on scan? IS HE ALONE?!"
Parmenides Elea Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.03.27 13:02:00 - [84] Lone wolf or as part of a pack WOLFY always gets its prey To Daimoto Kurashi
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.03.27 13:58:00 - [85] Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Edited by: EVIL SYNNs on 26/03/2009 16:54:27 A lot of Fiction here... Heres the way I see it, Each side thinks the other has a full and active militia, while theirs struggles to form a fleet or get a FC Each side would love to form blobs (blobs in FW > 25). However the FW lag causes people not to join up. Each side have those that plex and those that pvp. Each side has those that Only plex and those that Only pvp. Each side wants FW Missions and Plexes to be worth something, or in some way effect the other side. Each side agrees FW is an ISK sink. Each side LOVES the 5000+ War Targets they have. and not just FW its the same every where FC's rarely say "no more X's" If your side is out numbered you always fight, but the other way around they always run (thats everyones thinking, but for it to be true it has to be rubbish). so I see this as a great war. FW is GREAT, the people are GREAT! The pew pew is GREAT! The plexing needs some work (ANYONE DISAGREE TO THIS?) and I have gained a load of respect for people I never even knew existed, friend, foe and neutrals alike. I EVEN LIKE PERVS! <ITS TRUE> they crazy smack talking asses at times, but you can't knock their kill-death ratio or their plexing power. As for the status, Caldari are winning systems, Gallente are killing more (isk wise) Gallente has a higher kill/vp per member but in Eve that means nothing. But as the Caldari capture more systems it means more systems behind them can be taken back. LOGISTICS LOGISTICS LOGISTICS. Evil I have to agree 100% with Evil here. No matter how much we moan about the enemy and the state of our own militia, the enemy is doing exactly the same. The 10% rule that someone in the Caldari militia is quite true, but it applies for all 4 militia, not just the Caldari. The only real advantage the Caldari have (ignoring the EW, as anyone can train it) is strength of numbers. The one thing I do find amusing is that recently, it appears that the Gallente are making more of an effort to plex, whereas the Caldari have suddenly started to send out massive fleets, whereas this was the other way around just a few weeks ago. I wonder if we'll start moaning about Caldari 'blobs' and they'll start moaning about Gallente 'cowards' that would rather plex than fight. I am doing more plexing than I used to, although mainly because there doesn't appear to be as many PvP fleets as there used to be. I prefer the PvP, but I'm not adverse to the plexing. The priorities might well change if there were actual consequences to holding strategic points, and this is kind of why plexing has always been a little one-sided. As I see it, the two main issues with Factional Warfare are the lag and the lack of consequence for plexing. If CCP tinker with these aspects and improve them, I'm sure we'll see much more activity. Another idea just hit me, too. In regards to the '10% active' issue, why don't we have flags we can set so that if we are ready for duty, we appear in the militia channel, whereas if we out replenishing our ISK, we don't show. That way, we would have a better idea of what resources we have available at any given time.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.03.27 14:07:00 - [86] Originally by: Droog 1 I thought the Squids had already won the war. VICTORY Then they needed more FCs. JOIN THE SQUIDS FOR HONOUR Then they were losing. HELP Now,because they ran a few 'plexes that nobody cares about, they are winning. Go Squid militia! Now that's citing precedent. However, let us remember that these are individual opinions, and I'm sure they could find forums where certain Gallente militia members have stated the same things. Let's not get hung up on lambasting the other side and try to concentrate on encouraging PvP. Just had another idea: why not have a salary for each rank within the militia, where the higher you go, the greater the wage. But the trade off is that the amount of territory held determines the percentage of that salary you are entitled to receive. In addition to this, you would only be entitled to receive a salary if you are actively participating in FW, although the measure of this would have to be debated (say either a plex captured or a kill made in the space of 1 week). I think that would encourage more PvP, although territory would have to be reset on implementation to avoid one side having too much of an advantage.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.03.27 14:43:00 - [87] Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Edited by: EVIL SYNNs on 26/03/2009 16:54:27 so I see this as a great war. FW is GREAT, the people are GREAT! The pew pew is GREAT! The plexing needs some work (ANYONE DISAGREE TO THIS?) and I have gained a load of respect for people I never even knew existed, friend, foe and neutrals alike. I EVEN LIKE PERVS! <ITS TRUE> they crazy smack talking asses at times, but you can't knock their kill-death ratio or their plexing power. Plexing does not need more rewards. It is like any other pvp but you can not get instant 'win' feeling it comes by time after all Gallente systems has turned to Caldari. Then we can say Gallente got owned. No matter if you have more kills or not. You have still betrayed your people and failed to defend you systems. Keep fighting without cause, we know what we want and you and your friends can not prevent it with your attitude. You are not making money in fw you are defending your people.
Snake O'Donell Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.03.27 15:09:00 - [88] Originally by: Ratchman The one thing I do find amusing is that recently, it appears that the Gallente are making more of an effort to plex, whereas the Caldari have suddenly started to send out massive fleets, whereas this was the other way around just a few weeks ago. I wonder if we'll start moaning about Caldari 'blobs' and they'll start moaning about Gallente 'cowards' that would rather plex than fight. I would have to say a large part of this is due to external factors that effect certain corps in the Gallente Militia. This should be changing in the next couple weeks though.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.03.27 15:24:00 - [89] Edited by: Ratchman on 27/03/2009 15:24:54 Originally by: Bad Messenger Plexing does not need more rewards. It is like any other pvp but you can not get instant 'win' feeling it comes by time after all Gallente systems has turned to Caldari. Then we can say Gallente got owned. No matter if you have more kills or not. You have still betrayed your people and failed to defend you systems. Keep fighting without cause, we know what we want and you and your friends can not prevent it with your attitude. You are not making money in fw you are defending your people. Well, you can boast that you have 'owned' the Gallente, but if there is no consequence to this, then it is a hollow boast and nothing more. We could quite easily boast that we have killed more ships over time, and that at least has some impact on Caldari resources. And if you're solely 'playing to win', you will eventually be disappointed, as there will be no end to this war (and any resolution would render the game a little less fun). Play to win, sure, but you are meant to be primarily having fun.
Parmenides Elea Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.03.27 16:03:00 - [90] Originally by: Bad Messenger Plexing does not need more rewards. It is like any other pvp but you can not get instant 'win' feeling it comes by time after all Gallente systems has turned to Caldari. Then we can say Gallente got owned. No matter if you have more kills or not. You have still betrayed your people and failed to defend you systems. Keep fighting without cause, we know what we want and you and your friends can not prevent it with your attitude. You are not making money in fw you are defending your people. ROFL you have to love roleplayers don't you. So doing something that has absolutely no effect on the game or the war other than to change the display in the top left corner of your screen is more important than actually fighting a war by killing your enemies ships? Bah you know I've grown tired of this arguement, infact I bow to your amazing victories, caldari are truely the kings of factionwar. Now we've got that over with anyone fancy a fight? To Daimoto Kurashi

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