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booblop	Posted - 2009.03.21 06:06:00 - [1] Was wondering what you all think the "best" marauder would be for running missions. I don't care about play style comments, just want to know which is the absolute best on paper. Which one is best for making the most money missioning. Thanks in advance, and post away!
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.03.21 06:16:00 - [2] I say the Paladin. Tachyons have wonderful damage against most targets and in my experience blow though even things like lowend gurista and angel BS with ease. Plus you can switch to pulse lasers if you have missions at very short range, and 15km pulse optimal + 14-15km web is a nice combo. It also has a really awesome capacitor and doesn't need any pimping on the tank at all to be good. __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.03.21 07:56:00 - [3] Originally by: Terianna Eri I say the Paladin. Tachyons have wonderful damage against most targets and in my experience blow though even things like lowend gurista and angel BS with ease. Plus you can switch to pulse lasers if you have missions at very short range, and 15km pulse optimal + 14-15km web is a nice combo. It also has a really awesome capacitor and doesn't need any pimping on the tank at all to be good. Unfortunately with T2 Tachyons it lacks the grid to fit even a single T2 Large Armor Rep, you'll need to use a faction one. While it's worth the investment, it is a bit annoying that you'll need to add 400 million or so to the price of the ship since it can't use a T2 rep with its biggest guns. Which is also why I don't understand why the Kronos has enough grid to easily fit a Dual T2 Large Armor Rep layout even with its biggest guns.
Khornne Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.21 08:04:00 - [4] First fact ist that Marauders are PVE ships. The Golem is the best one of those because it can adapt to any mission/plex you run in terms of damage. It's that simple. -- si vis pacem, para bellum If you wish for peace, prepare for war.
Cyhawk	Posted - 2009.03.21 08:05:00 - [5] There is no such thing as best in EvE. Once you figure that out, you will have a much easier time here.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.03.21 08:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Meiyang Lee Originally by: Terianna Eri I say the Paladin. Tachyons have wonderful damage against most targets and in my experience blow though even things like lowend gurista and angel BS with ease. Plus you can switch to pulse lasers if you have missions at very short range, and 15km pulse optimal + 14-15km web is a nice combo. It also has a really awesome capacitor and doesn't need any pimping on the tank at all to be good. Unfortunately with T2 Tachyons it lacks the grid to fit even a single T2 Large Armor Rep, you'll need to use a faction one. While it's worth the investment, it is a bit annoying that you'll need to add 400 million or so to the price of the ship since it can't use a T2 rep with its biggest guns. Which is also why I don't understand why the Kronos has enough grid to easily fit a Dual T2 Large Armor Rep layout even with its biggest guns. 3% powergrid implant 4tw: Quote: [Paladin, Tachyons] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Large Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Capacitor Control Circuit I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Hammerhead II x5 The powergrid implant runs only 20-30 mil and is therefore considerably cheaper than a faction rep. If you really want to put a grid-saving rep on the Paladin, go for the "Hauberk" or "Protest" COSMOS reps which I've seen on contracts occasionally, for around 150 mil. Those save so much grid that you can not only fit a full rack of T2 Tachs but also an afterburner! __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2009.03.21 08:36:00 - [7] Edited by: Misanth on 21/03/2009 08:37:44 Originally by: Terianna Eri The powergrid implant runs only 20-30 mil and is therefore considerably cheaper than a faction rep. If you really want to put a grid-saving rep on the Paladin, go for the "Hauberk" or "Protest" COSMOS reps which I've seen on contracts occasionally, for around 150 mil. Those save so much grid that you can not only fit a full rack of T2 Tachs but also an afterburner! Alot of people forget to utilize cheap implants tbh. Either case, just want to point out that your fit is a bit overkill on tank. Mine runs with 2x CCC, the Aux Nano is overkill. I have a single rep and Marauder IV and never struggled with repping, not even AE bonus room. That means you can drop the 3rd CR you got and throw in a 2nd tracking computer. I'm running LAR, 3x HS, with either 1+1 active + EANM or 2x EANM + DC (mission specific, or omni). Mids 2x CR, 2x TC. High, 4x Tachs, 2x tractor 1 salvager. The Aux nano or doublerepper Paladins = abominations, tbh. Noone should ever need more tank than a single repper with Marauder IV, it's that simple. Apart from that your fit is basicly same as I run, I'm just getting more tracking and don't lose anything I need. Edit; Oh and for the OP.. what's best? This: Originally by: Cyhawk There is no such thing as best in EvE. Once you figure that out, you will have a much easier time here. -
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.03.21 11:20:00 - [8] Edited by: Terianna Eri on 21/03/2009 11:22:14 Originally by: Misanth Edited by: Misanth on 21/03/2009 08:37:44 Originally by: Terianna Eri The powergrid implant runs only 20-30 mil and is therefore considerably cheaper than a faction rep. If you really want to put a grid-saving rep on the Paladin, go for the "Hauberk" or "Protest" COSMOS reps which I've seen on contracts occasionally, for around 150 mil. Those save so much grid that you can not only fit a full rack of T2 Tachs but also an afterburner! Alot of people forget to utilize cheap implants tbh. Either case, just want to point out that your fit is a bit overkill on tank. Mine runs with 2x CCC, the Aux Nano is overkill. I have a single rep and Marauder IV and never struggled with repping, not even AE bonus room. That means you can drop the 3rd CR you got and throw in a 2nd tracking computer. It's overkill for most missions yeah but for those missions, the extra cap (or tracking) isn't going to complete them much faster anyway. The nano pump is actually there because I bought the ship for a very good price with both of those rigs already installed. The extra tank actually does come in handy sometimes too - on missions like the assault and serpentis extravaganza, for example. May not be the optimal rig setup but when you get an offer to buy an intelligently rigged paladin for 700 mil, who's going to complain? P.S. Your signature keeps accusing me of posting in the nude D: __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
booblop	Posted - 2009.03.21 13:02:00 - [9] Quote: There is no such thing as best in EvE. Once you figure that out, you will have a much easier time here. I'm more than aware of this. Let me rephrase my original post.. which has the most potential to be the best? So far the Paladin? But no one has really said why. After playing with EFT with Golems, Kronos' and Paladins, the Golem has an amazing tank, but does awful damage. The Paladin with Tachs seems like it would have range issues vs. the Kronos with 425mm II's. Not to mention that a Kronos does more dps?
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.21 13:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Cyhawk There is no such thing as best in EvE. Once you figure that out, you will have a much easier time here. With PvE there is, actually. Its all about isk/hour.

booblop	Posted - 2009.03.21 13:14:00 - [11] Yes, that's exactly what I want. I want to know what the best is in terms of isk/hr.
TimMc Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.03.21 13:26:00 - [12] Originally by: booblop Yes, that's exactly what I want. I want to know what the best is in terms of isk/hr. If you do missions in amarr space, paladin is incredible. However, non-changable damage means that in other places its probably best to fly a Golem.
Xapharia WOLIMAZO INC	Posted - 2009.03.21 13:30:00 - [13] Golem is just overtanked if you ask me... Planning to use this fitting once I'm done skilling for the Paladin: [Paladin, Semi-Faction] Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer Dark Blood Heat Sink Dark Blood Heat Sink Dark Blood Heat Sink Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 The faction mods are worth it, and a faction LAR does NOT cost 400 mill (where do you buy such overpriced items? ) You don't need a cap stable tank either. Still have to switch targets and so on. Might have to let the cap recharge a bit between spawn aggro. You can also switch out a tracking computer for a faction web instead for Angel missions and use Gleam crystals (who needs pulse lasers) _________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2009.03.21 13:39:00 - [14] Originally by: Xapharia Golem is just overtanked if you ask me... Planning to use this fitting once I'm done skilling for the Paladin: [Paladin, Semi-Faction] Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer Dark Blood Heat Sink Dark Blood Heat Sink Dark Blood Heat Sink Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 The faction mods are worth it, and a faction LAR does NOT cost 400 mill (where do you buy such overpriced items? ) You don't need a cap stable tank either. Still have to switch targets and so on. Might have to let the cap recharge a bit between spawn aggro. You can also switch out a tracking computer for a faction web instead for Angel missions and use Gleam crystals (who needs pulse lasers) That's nearly exactly what I use. I've got AN Heat Sinks and few other things different version of it but the layout is the same. For the OP; It's gonna be damn hard to specify which one is best because very few fly more than one. My alt rotate Paladin/Nightmare/CNR and I don't stick to one single ship for missions. I do plan to get Caldari BS 5 for her to run Golem in certain missions (Damsel in Distress), but I believe the Paladin fits me better atm.. mostly because she runs missions for Amarr Navy and tend to get alot of long-range, em/therm vulnerable missions. If I were running missions for Caldari, I'm pretty sure I'd use the Golem. The NPC's there tend to spawn closer in, plus the damage type would fit better. I know some people using the Kronos and loving it, the only ship I know that get constant bashing out of these is the Vargur. So I guess the real questions would be; what are you fighting, at what range. The Paladin is great but it has its damage type limitations. Tachyons with 2 tracking comps (I have 2x shadow serp ones) never have issues hitting things even when they go in close. The only negative would be the damage type really. -
NoNah	Posted - 2009.03.21 13:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Xapharia Golem is just overtanked if you ask me... Planning to use this fitting once I'm done skilling for the Paladin: [Paladin, Semi-Faction] Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer Dark Blood Heat Sink Dark Blood Heat Sink Dark Blood Heat Sink Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 The faction mods are worth it, and a faction LAR does NOT cost 400 mill (where do you buy such overpriced items? ) You don't need a cap stable tank either. Still have to switch targets and so on. Might have to let the cap recharge a bit between spawn aggro. You can also switch out a tracking computer for a faction web instead for Angel missions and use Gleam crystals (who needs pulse lasers) Hmm, funny statement imho, how is it overtanked once you get atleast 2 tps and a ab on it? Got any decent fitting? Parrots, commence! Postcount: 989788
booblop	Posted - 2009.03.21 14:01:00 - [16] So, are we talking torpgolems? Or just the basic cruise stuff? I figured torps would be too short of range to be useful.. unless you use rigs.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.03.21 14:07:00 - [17] Originally by: booblop So, are we talking torpgolems? Or just the basic cruise stuff? I figured torps would be too short of range to be useful.. unless you use rigs. Not just that, Javelins make your wallet empty pretty fast.
Dracthera Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.21 14:30:00 - [18] Originally by: booblop So, are we talking torpgolems? Or just the basic cruise stuff? I figured torps would be too short of range to be useful.. unless you use rigs. Yes, torp Golems with missile range rigs and shooting Javelins. You can reach out to the ranges you need to take out far-orbiting rats with those plus good missile skills (which you should have anyway if you fly a Golem). And no, it's not a waste of cash to use T2 missiles in missions. You make more money than you use up because you end up running missions faster. Apto Quod Ususfructus
booblop	Posted - 2009.03.21 14:56:00 - [19] So, 785dps (With maxed skills) and an active tank on a Golem beats 950-ish dps with a permatank on the Paladin? I'm not criticizing by any means, just trying to find justification for using the Golem at all.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.21 14:59:00 - [20] Vargur lololol it can change NE damage type and guns use NO CAP. It gives you SO MUCH MORE CAP to tank with it's almost overpowered. tl;dr, Golem/pally

Gul Rashen Perkone	Posted - 2009.03.21 15:02:00 - [21] Edited by: Gul Rashen on 21/03/2009 15:04:40 Originally by: booblop So, 785dps (With maxed skills) and an active tank on a Golem beats 950-ish dps with a permatank on the Paladin? I'm not criticizing by any means, just trying to find justification for using the Golem at all. You can shoot >90% of the NPCs with T1 or CN-Torps(Range >40km). DPS with pure T2-Fitting are >1000 (without Drones).
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.03.21 15:08:00 - [22] Originally by: booblop So, 785dps (With maxed skills) and an active tank on a Golem beats 950-ish dps with a permatank on the Paladin? I'm not criticizing by any means, just trying to find justification for using the Golem at all. If you are working for an Amarr Empire corporation, use the Paladin. The enemies are predominately Sansha and Blood Raiders, tasty snacks for lasers. If you are working for any non-Amarr corporation use the Golem. Enemies will be mostly Guristas, Serpentis or Angel with relatively high EM/Therm resists allowing the Golem to easily out damage the Paladin. All the Marauders are viable, but only the Golem can really be said to work equally well against all rats, albeit beaten by the Paladin against two pirate factions.
Xapharia WOLIMAZO INC	Posted - 2009.03.21 15:19:00 - [23] Originally by: NoNah Hmm, funny statement imho, how is it overtanked once you get atleast 2 tps and a ab on it? Got any decent fitting? Reason I don't like the Golem is it has crappy range with torps without T2 ammo, and even with T2 ammo it has to chase the NPCs around when they orbit outside your range. I shoot a lot of long-range BS that orbit out to 60km, and with lasers I can just go for crystals with better range if I have to. Outside torp range you also deal 0 damage, while lasers just loose a bit of their damage to gain the extra range needed to pop those pesky NPCs orbiting that structure 100km away. Plus you use up half your cargo with all the missiles you have to carry around. What I want in my marauder is something I can roam the stars with for a day before having to go back to a station. Sure for empire missions you might do fine, with access to ammo and stations almost everywhere. Yet you constantly have to spend the isk you harvested in your missions on new ammo to be able to go on. I may have to buy a few new crystals IF I choose to use T2 crystals because of rats orbiting very close. Do I salvage every wreck in a mission? No. I only loot/salvage wrecks and structures in range and those with potentially nice loot. I doubt you will get get a higher isk/hour ratio by slowboating around after everything is dead to every single wreck before you hand in your mission. Here's the fitting you asked for btw, sure the tank isn't as overtanked as almost all the other fits that roam these forums with the two target painters and AB, but then it's the range... [Golem, AB Torp] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron 100MN Afterburner II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Photon Scattering Field II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Again switch out hardeners as needed, just me that prefers to use EM/Therm rats as base for my damage-specific tanks. _________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
v00d003	Posted - 2009.03.21 16:45:00 - [24] Edited by: v00d003 on 21/03/2009 16:50:15 Originally by: Xapharia Originally by: NoNah Hmm, funny statement imho, how is it overtanked once you get atleast 2 tps and a ab on it? Got any decent fitting? Reason I don't like the Golem is it has crappy range with torps without T2 ammo, and even with T2 ammo it has to chase the NPCs around when they orbit outside your range. I shoot a lot of long-range BS that orbit out to 60km, and with lasers I can just go for crystals with better range if I have to. Outside torp range you also deal 0 damage, while lasers just loose a bit of their damage to gain the extra range needed to pop those pesky NPCs orbiting that structure 100km away. Plus you use up half your cargo with all the missiles you have to carry around. What I want in my marauder is something I can roam the stars with for a day before having to go back to a station. Sure for empire missions you might do fine, with access to ammo and stations almost everywhere. Yet you constantly have to spend the isk you harvested in your missions on new ammo to be able to go on. I may have to buy a few new crystals IF I choose to use T2 crystals because of rats orbiting very close. Do I salvage every wreck in a mission? No. I only loot/salvage wrecks and structures in range and those with potentially nice loot. I doubt you will get get a higher isk/hour ratio by slowboating around after everything is dead to every single wreck before you hand in your mission. Here's the fitting you asked for btw, sure the tank isn't as overtanked as almost all the other fits that roam these forums with the two target painters and AB, but then it's the range... [Golem, AB Torp] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron 100MN Afterburner II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Photon Scattering Field II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Again switch out hardeners as needed, just me that prefers to use EM/Therm rats as base for my damage-specific tanks. loose the ccc and use range rigs. This will enable you to hit any npc that orbits the 50km plus range. Loose the afterburner and replace it with a shield amp. The xl booster can be replaced with a large booster especial if you have implants.Just Remember caldari ships like to have active shields mods and implants are your best friend.BTW I can salvage and loot while I engage the enemy,so its hardly slow boating, making more isk maybe but not slow boating.
ZW Dewitt	Posted - 2009.03.21 17:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Gul Rashen NPCs <42km=CN-or T1 Torps....DPS>1000(without Drones) NPCs >42km=Javelins 90% of the NPCs have orbitranges under 40km And lots of NPCs start out well over 40km, some even over Javelin range. If you have to wait for them to come to you or fly to them its going to slow you down.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.21 17:32:00 - [26] Kronos, with T2 Rigs, has been doing fine for me. Rail fit with Faction Thorium it kills out to max locking range no problems. In those few missions where neutron blasters are usefull it's just insane. The drone system is messed up but I keep forgeting to use drones anyway, so it no big deal. I also like the Black'n'Gold paint job.
Orlando Orleans Minmatar Burning Bright Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.21 18:23:00 - [27] I have tried the golem and the vargur and I like the vargur a lot more although I haven¦t tried a golem with javelin torps. My vargur setup that steamrolls any mission and munches through npcs: 800mm AC T2 w/republic fleet ammo x4 Tractor beam x4 Gist B-type XL shield booster Republic fleet 100mn AB DG invulnerability field x2 Rat specific hardener T2 x1 Tracking comp T2 Gyrostabilizer T2 x3 Power diagnostic T2 x2 Cap control circuit x2 5 warrior t2 5 hobgoblin t2 5 hornet t2
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.03.21 20:04:00 - [28] God this thread is full of crap. Post #4 got it right though, it really is that simple, IF you're going to use just one single ship against all rats. Me, I use the best tool available for each given job, and they do vary a lot.
NoNah	Posted - 2009.03.21 20:19:00 - [29] Originally by: ZW Dewitt Originally by: Gul Rashen NPCs <42km=CN-or T1 Torps....DPS>1000(without Drones) NPCs >42km=Javelins 90% of the NPCs have orbitranges under 40km And lots of NPCs start out well over 40km, some even over Javelin range. If you have to wait for them to come to you or fly to them its going to slow you down. Actually, they need to be within 40-42km for efficient salvaging anyway, so you either have to intercept them at double speed or cruise towards their wreck when they're popped. And it's rather rare for missions to have all spawns start outside javelin range, if there's something to remove while you aggro that group it's virtually no time lost. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 310474
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.03.21 20:26:00 - [30] Originally by: Khornne First fact ist that Marauders are PVE ships. The Golem is the best one of those because it can adapt to any mission/plex you run in terms of damage. It's that simple. This. But, if you're really harcore about it, get a Paladin AND a Kronos, and chosse the one most adatped to your mission. That will be more effective than a Golem. ------------------------------------------



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