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booblop
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Posted - 2009.03.21 06:06:00 -
[1]
Was wondering what you all think the "best" marauder would be for running missions. I don't care about play style comments, just want to know which is the absolute best on paper. Which one is best for making the most money missioning.
Thanks in advance, and post away! 
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.03.21 06:16:00 -
[2]
I say the Paladin. Tachyons have wonderful damage against most targets and in my experience blow though even things like lowend gurista and angel BS with ease. Plus you can switch to pulse lasers if you have missions at very short range, and 15km pulse optimal + 14-15km web is a nice combo.
It also has a really awesome capacitor and doesn't need any pimping on the tank at all to be good.
__________________________________
 Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.03.21 07:56:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
I say the Paladin. Tachyons have wonderful damage against most targets and in my experience blow though even things like lowend gurista and angel BS with ease. Plus you can switch to pulse lasers if you have missions at very short range, and 15km pulse optimal + 14-15km web is a nice combo.
It also has a really awesome capacitor and doesn't need any pimping on the tank at all to be good.
Unfortunately with T2 Tachyons it lacks the grid to fit even a single T2 Large Armor Rep, you'll need to use a faction one. While it's worth the investment, it is a bit annoying that you'll need to add 400 million or so to the price of the ship since it can't use a T2 rep with its biggest guns.
Which is also why I don't understand why the Kronos has enough grid to easily fit a Dual T2 Large Armor Rep layout even with its biggest guns.
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Khornne
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:04:00 -
[4]
First fact ist that Marauders are PVE ships.
The Golem is the best one of those because it can adapt to any mission/plex you run in terms of damage.
It's that simple.
-- si vis pacem, para bellum
If you wish for peace, prepare for war. |
Cyhawk
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:05:00 -
[5]
There is no such thing as best in EvE. Once you figure that out, you will have a much easier time here.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
Originally by: Terianna Eri
I say the Paladin. Tachyons have wonderful damage against most targets and in my experience blow though even things like lowend gurista and angel BS with ease. Plus you can switch to pulse lasers if you have missions at very short range, and 15km pulse optimal + 14-15km web is a nice combo.
It also has a really awesome capacitor and doesn't need any pimping on the tank at all to be good.
Unfortunately with T2 Tachyons it lacks the grid to fit even a single T2 Large Armor Rep, you'll need to use a faction one. While it's worth the investment, it is a bit annoying that you'll need to add 400 million or so to the price of the ship since it can't use a T2 rep with its biggest guns.
Which is also why I don't understand why the Kronos has enough grid to easily fit a Dual T2 Large Armor Rep layout even with its biggest guns.
3% powergrid implant 4tw:
Quote:
[Paladin, Tachyons]
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
The powergrid implant runs only 20-30 mil and is therefore considerably cheaper than a faction rep. If you really want to put a grid-saving rep on the Paladin, go for the "Hauberk" or "Protest" COSMOS reps which I've seen on contracts occasionally, for around 150 mil. Those save so much grid that you can not only fit a full rack of T2 Tachs but also an afterburner!
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Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:36:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Misanth on 21/03/2009 08:37:44
Originally by: Terianna Eri
The powergrid implant runs only 20-30 mil and is therefore considerably cheaper than a faction rep. If you really want to put a grid-saving rep on the Paladin, go for the "Hauberk" or "Protest" COSMOS reps which I've seen on contracts occasionally, for around 150 mil. Those save so much grid that you can not only fit a full rack of T2 Tachs but also an afterburner!
Alot of people forget to utilize cheap implants tbh.
Either case, just want to point out that your fit is a bit overkill on tank. Mine runs with 2x CCC, the Aux Nano is overkill. I have a single rep and Marauder IV and never struggled with repping, not even AE bonus room. That means you can drop the 3rd CR you got and throw in a 2nd tracking computer.
I'm running LAR, 3x HS, with either 1+1 active + EANM or 2x EANM + DC (mission specific, or omni). Mids 2x CR, 2x TC. High, 4x Tachs, 2x tractor 1 salvager.
The Aux nano or doublerepper Paladins = abominations, tbh. Noone should ever need more tank than a single repper with Marauder IV, it's that simple.  Apart from that your fit is basicly same as I run, I'm just getting more tracking and don't lose anything I need. 
Edit; Oh and for the OP.. what's best? This:
Originally by: Cyhawk
There is no such thing as best in EvE. Once you figure that out, you will have a much easier time here.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.03.21 11:20:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 21/03/2009 11:22:14
Originally by: Misanth
Edited by: Misanth on 21/03/2009 08:37:44
Originally by: Terianna Eri
The powergrid implant runs only 20-30 mil and is therefore considerably cheaper than a faction rep. If you really want to put a grid-saving rep on the Paladin, go for the "Hauberk" or "Protest" COSMOS reps which I've seen on contracts occasionally, for around 150 mil. Those save so much grid that you can not only fit a full rack of T2 Tachs but also an afterburner!
Alot of people forget to utilize cheap implants tbh.
Either case, just want to point out that your fit is a bit overkill on tank. Mine runs with 2x CCC, the Aux Nano is overkill. I have a single rep and Marauder IV and never struggled with repping, not even AE bonus room. That means you can drop the 3rd CR you got and throw in a 2nd tracking computer.
It's overkill for most missions yeah but for those missions, the extra cap (or tracking) isn't going to complete them much faster anyway. The nano pump is actually there because I bought the ship for a very good price with both of those rigs already installed. The extra tank actually does come in handy sometimes too - on missions like the assault and serpentis extravaganza, for example.
May not be the optimal rig setup but when you get an offer to buy an intelligently rigged paladin for 700 mil, who's going to complain?
P.S. Your signature keeps accusing me of posting in the nude D:
__________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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booblop
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Posted - 2009.03.21 13:02:00 -
[9]
Quote:
There is no such thing as best in EvE. Once you figure that out, you will have a much easier time here.
I'm more than aware of this. Let me rephrase my original post.. which has the most potential to be the best? So far the Paladin? But no one has really said why. After playing with EFT with Golems, Kronos' and Paladins, the Golem has an amazing tank, but does awful damage. The Paladin with Tachs seems like it would have range issues vs. the Kronos with 425mm II's. Not to mention that a Kronos does more dps? 
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.21 13:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cyhawk
There is no such thing as best in EvE. Once you figure that out, you will have a much easier time here.
With PvE there is, actually.
Its all about isk/hour.
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booblop
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Posted - 2009.03.21 13:14:00 -
[11]
Yes, that's exactly what I want. I want to know what the best is in terms of isk/hr. 
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TimMc
Gallente
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.03.21 13:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: booblop
Yes, that's exactly what I want. I want to know what the best is in terms of isk/hr.
If you do missions in amarr space, paladin is incredible.
However, non-changable damage means that in other places its probably best to fly a Golem.
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Xapharia
WOLIMAZO INC
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Posted - 2009.03.21 13:30:00 -
[13]
Golem is just overtanked if you ask me... Planning to use this fitting once I'm done skilling for the Paladin:
[Paladin, Semi-Faction]
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
The faction mods are worth it, and a faction LAR does NOT cost 400 mill (where do you buy such overpriced items?  )
You don't need a cap stable tank either. Still have to switch targets and so on. Might have to let the cap recharge a bit between spawn aggro. You can also switch out a tracking computer for a faction web instead for Angel missions and use Gleam crystals (who needs pulse lasers)
_________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2009.03.21 13:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Xapharia
Golem is just overtanked if you ask me... Planning to use this fitting once I'm done skilling for the Paladin:
[Paladin, Semi-Faction]
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
The faction mods are worth it, and a faction LAR does NOT cost 400 mill (where do you buy such overpriced items? )
You don't need a cap stable tank either. Still have to switch targets and so on. Might have to let the cap recharge a bit between spawn aggro. You can also switch out a tracking computer for a faction web instead for Angel missions and use Gleam crystals (who needs pulse lasers)
That's nearly exactly what I use. I've got AN Heat Sinks and few other things different version of it but the layout is the same.
For the OP; It's gonna be damn hard to specify which one is best because very few fly more than one. My alt rotate Paladin/Nightmare/CNR and I don't stick to one single ship for missions. I do plan to get Caldari BS 5 for her to run Golem in certain missions (Damsel in Distress), but I believe the Paladin fits me better atm.. mostly because she runs missions for Amarr Navy and tend to get alot of long-range, em/therm vulnerable missions.
If I were running missions for Caldari, I'm pretty sure I'd use the Golem. The NPC's there tend to spawn closer in, plus the damage type would fit better. I know some people using the Kronos and loving it, the only ship I know that get constant bashing out of these is the Vargur. So I guess the real questions would be; what are you fighting, at what range.
The Paladin is great but it has its damage type limitations. Tachyons with 2 tracking comps (I have 2x shadow serp ones) never have issues hitting things even when they go in close. The only negative would be the damage type really.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.03.21 13:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Xapharia
Golem is just overtanked if you ask me... Planning to use this fitting once I'm done skilling for the Paladin:
[Paladin, Semi-Faction]
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
The faction mods are worth it, and a faction LAR does NOT cost 400 mill (where do you buy such overpriced items? )
You don't need a cap stable tank either. Still have to switch targets and so on. Might have to let the cap recharge a bit between spawn aggro. You can also switch out a tracking computer for a faction web instead for Angel missions and use Gleam crystals (who needs pulse lasers)
Hmm, funny statement imho, how is it overtanked once you get atleast 2 tps and a ab on it? Got any decent fitting?
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 989788
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booblop
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Posted - 2009.03.21 14:01:00 -
[16]
So, are we talking torpgolems? Or just the basic cruise stuff? I figured torps would be too short of range to be useful.. unless you use rigs.
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fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.03.21 14:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: booblop
So, are we talking torpgolems? Or just the basic cruise stuff? I figured torps would be too short of range to be useful.. unless you use rigs.
Not just that, Javelins make your wallet empty pretty fast.
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Dracthera
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 14:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: booblop
So, are we talking torpgolems? Or just the basic cruise stuff? I figured torps would be too short of range to be useful.. unless you use rigs.
Yes, torp Golems with missile range rigs and shooting Javelins. You can reach out to the ranges you need to take out far-orbiting rats with those plus good missile skills (which you should have anyway if you fly a Golem). And no, it's not a waste of cash to use T2 missiles in missions. You make more money than you use up because you end up running missions faster.
Apto Quod Ususfructus |
booblop
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Posted - 2009.03.21 14:56:00 -
[19]
So, 785dps (With maxed skills) and an active tank on a Golem beats 950-ish dps with a permatank on the Paladin? I'm not criticizing by any means, just trying to find justification for using the Golem at all.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.21 14:59:00 -
[20]
Vargur lololol it can change NE damage type and guns use NO CAP. It gives you SO MUCH MORE CAP to tank with it's almost overpowered.
tl;dr, Golem/pally
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.21 15:02:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 21/03/2009 15:04:40
Originally by: booblop
So, 785dps (With maxed skills) and an active tank on a Golem beats 950-ish dps with a permatank on the Paladin? I'm not criticizing by any means, just trying to find justification for using the Golem at all.
You can shoot >90% of the NPCs with T1 or CN-Torps(Range >40km). DPS with pure T2-Fitting are >1000 (without Drones).
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.03.21 15:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: booblop
So, 785dps (With maxed skills) and an active tank on a Golem beats 950-ish dps with a permatank on the Paladin? I'm not criticizing by any means, just trying to find justification for using the Golem at all.
If you are working for an Amarr Empire corporation, use the Paladin. The enemies are predominately Sansha and Blood Raiders, tasty snacks for lasers.
If you are working for any non-Amarr corporation use the Golem. Enemies will be mostly Guristas, Serpentis or Angel with relatively high EM/Therm resists allowing the Golem to easily out damage the Paladin.
All the Marauders are viable, but only the Golem can really be said to work equally well against all rats, albeit beaten by the Paladin against two pirate factions.
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Xapharia
WOLIMAZO INC
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Posted - 2009.03.21 15:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: NoNah
Hmm, funny statement imho, how is it overtanked once you get atleast 2 tps and a ab on it? Got any decent fitting?
Reason I don't like the Golem is it has crappy range with torps without T2 ammo, and even with T2 ammo it has to chase the NPCs around when they orbit outside your range. I shoot a lot of long-range BS that orbit out to 60km, and with lasers I can just go for crystals with better range if I have to. Outside torp range you also deal 0 damage, while lasers just loose a bit of their damage to gain the extra range needed to pop those pesky NPCs orbiting that structure 100km away. Plus you use up half your cargo with all the missiles you have to carry around.
What I want in my marauder is something I can roam the stars with for a day before having to go back to a station. Sure for empire missions you might do fine, with access to ammo and stations almost everywhere. Yet you constantly have to spend the isk you harvested in your missions on new ammo to be able to go on. I may have to buy a few new crystals IF I choose to use T2 crystals because of rats orbiting very close.
Do I salvage every wreck in a mission? No. I only loot/salvage wrecks and structures in range and those with potentially nice loot. I doubt you will get get a higher isk/hour ratio by slowboating around after everything is dead to every single wreck before you hand in your mission.
Here's the fitting you asked for btw, sure the tank isn't as overtanked as almost all the other fits that roam these forums with the two target painters and AB, but then it's the range...
[Golem, AB Torp]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
100MN Afterburner II
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Again switch out hardeners as needed, just me that prefers to use EM/Therm rats as base for my damage-specific tanks.
_________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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v00d003
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Posted - 2009.03.21 16:45:00 -
[24]
Edited by: v00d003 on 21/03/2009 16:50:15
Originally by: Xapharia
Originally by: NoNah
Hmm, funny statement imho, how is it overtanked once you get atleast 2 tps and a ab on it? Got any decent fitting?
Reason I don't like the Golem is it has crappy range with torps without T2 ammo, and even with T2 ammo it has to chase the NPCs around when they orbit outside your range. I shoot a lot of long-range BS that orbit out to 60km, and with lasers I can just go for crystals with better range if I have to. Outside torp range you also deal 0 damage, while lasers just loose a bit of their damage to gain the extra range needed to pop those pesky NPCs orbiting that structure 100km away. Plus you use up half your cargo with all the missiles you have to carry around.
What I want in my marauder is something I can roam the stars with for a day before having to go back to a station. Sure for empire missions you might do fine, with access to ammo and stations almost everywhere. Yet you constantly have to spend the isk you harvested in your missions on new ammo to be able to go on. I may have to buy a few new crystals IF I choose to use T2 crystals because of rats orbiting very close.
Do I salvage every wreck in a mission? No. I only loot/salvage wrecks and structures in range and those with potentially nice loot. I doubt you will get get a higher isk/hour ratio by slowboating around after everything is dead to every single wreck before you hand in your mission.
Here's the fitting you asked for btw, sure the tank isn't as overtanked as almost all the other fits that roam these forums with the two target painters and AB, but then it's the range...
[Golem, AB Torp]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
100MN Afterburner II
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Again switch out hardeners as needed, just me that prefers to use EM/Therm rats as base for my damage-specific tanks.
loose the ccc and use range rigs. This will enable you to hit any npc that orbits the 50km plus range. Loose the afterburner and replace it with a shield amp. The xl booster can be replaced with a large booster especial if you have implants.Just Remember caldari ships like to have active shields mods and implants are your best friend.BTW I can salvage and loot while I engage the enemy,so its hardly slow boating, making more isk maybe but not slow boating.
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ZW Dewitt
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Posted - 2009.03.21 17:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Gul Rashen
NPCs <42km=CN-or T1 Torps....DPS>1000(without Drones)
NPCs >42km=Javelins
90% of the NPCs have orbitranges under 40km
And lots of NPCs start out well over 40km, some even over Javelin range. If you have to wait for them to come to you or fly to them its going to slow you down.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.21 17:32:00 -
[26]
Kronos, with T2 Rigs, has been doing fine for me. Rail fit with Faction Thorium it kills out to max locking range no problems. In those few missions where neutron blasters are usefull it's just insane. The drone system is messed up but I keep forgeting to use drones anyway, so it no big deal.
I also like the Black'n'Gold paint job. |
Orlando Orleans
Minmatar
Burning Bright Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.21 18:23:00 -
[27]
I have tried the golem and the vargur and I like the vargur a lot more although I haven¦t tried a golem with javelin torps.
My vargur setup that steamrolls any mission and munches through npcs:
800mm AC T2 w/republic fleet ammo x4
Tractor beam x4
Gist B-type XL shield booster
Republic fleet 100mn AB
DG invulnerability field x2
Rat specific hardener T2 x1
Tracking comp T2
Gyrostabilizer T2 x3
Power diagnostic T2 x2
Cap control circuit x2
5 warrior t2
5 hobgoblin t2
5 hornet t2
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.03.21 20:04:00 -
[28]
God this thread is full of crap.
Post #4 got it right though, it really is that simple, *IF* you're going to use just one single ship against all rats.
Me, I use the best tool available for each given job, and they do vary a lot.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.03.21 20:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ZW Dewitt
Originally by: Gul Rashen
NPCs <42km=CN-or T1 Torps....DPS>1000(without Drones)
NPCs >42km=Javelins
90% of the NPCs have orbitranges under 40km
And lots of NPCs start out well over 40km, some even over Javelin range. If you have to wait for them to come to you or fly to them its going to slow you down.
Actually, they need to be within 40-42km for efficient salvaging anyway, so you either have to intercept them at double speed or cruise towards their wreck when they're popped. And it's rather rare for missions to have all spawns start outside javelin range, if there's something to remove while you aggro that group it's virtually no time lost.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 310474
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.21 20:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Khornne
First fact ist that Marauders are PVE ships.
The Golem is the best one of those because it can adapt to any mission/plex you run in terms of damage.
It's that simple.
This.
But, if you're really harcore about it, get a Paladin AND a Kronos, and chosse the one most adatped to your mission. That will be more effective than a Golem.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.21 20:51:00 -
[31]
Originally by: NoNah
Actually, they need to be within 40-42km for efficient salvaging anyway, so you either have to intercept them at double speed or cruise towards their wreck when they're popped. And it's rather rare for missions to have all spawns start outside javelin range, if there's something to remove while you aggro that group it's virtually no time lost.
NoNah, just curious, but which marauders do you fly these days?
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:30:00 -
[32]
Best is the Vargur.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:36:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NoNah
Actually, they need to be within 40-42km for efficient salvaging anyway, so you either have to intercept them at double speed or cruise towards their wreck when they're popped. And it's rather rare for missions to have all spawns start outside javelin range, if there's something to remove while you aggro that group it's virtually no time lost.
NoNah, just curious, but which marauders do you fly these days?
-Liang
Depends on the task... But yeah, pulses for paladin, torps for golem, rails for kronos and AC's for Vargur.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 890183
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Reapers
DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:48:00 -
[34]
ISK/Hour, then use a Golem and a Nightmare/Paladin. Paladin/Nightmare make less isk/hour than a Golem on non-blood/sansha lvl4's.
Thats about it really. Blood or Sansha Lvl4's and Paladin/Nightmare melts through them.
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Billion Isk Mission |
Xapharia
WOLIMAZO INC
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: v00d003
loose the ccc and use range rigs. This will enable you to hit any npc that orbits the 50km plus range. Loose the afterburner and replace it with a shield amp. The xl booster can be replaced with a large booster especial if you have implants.Just Remember caldari ships like to have active shields mods and implants are your best friend.BTW I can salvage and loot while I engage the enemy,so its hardly slow boating, making more isk maybe but not slow boating.
If you read what I quoted you would see why I fit an afterburner. Just tossed together a fit in under a minute so yeah range rigs might be better (used to having guns that eat cap these days  )
_________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.03.21 22:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Gul Rashen
My Paladin and Golem missiontimes against Sanshas and Bloods are ~equal. Against all others my Golem is faster.
This cant be true, not even slightly.
Paladin outruns a Golem in ANY case against BR/EOM/Mercs/Sansha/Drones.
The simple fact that you can snipe and insta Pop Frigates and Cruiser beats out the Golem already by far in terms of speed.
And i dont think we need to start talking about the price of Javs, that reduces the money a lot per mission.
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Mystafyre
Caldari
First Clan Corp
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.03.21 23:13:00 -
[37]
Originally by: booblop
Was wondering what you all think the "best" marauder would be for running missions. I don't care about play style comments, just want to know which is the absolute best on paper. Which one is best for making the most money missioning.
Thanks in advance, and post away!
Golem. Missiles. Relaxed way and most efficient. Always the optimal DPS.
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Mystafyre
Caldari
First Clan Corp
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.03.21 23:15:00 -
[38]
Originally by: fuxinos
Originally by: Gul Rashen
My Paladin and Golem missiontimes against Sanshas and Bloods are ~equal. Against all others my Golem is faster.
This cant be true, not even slightly.
Paladin outruns a Golem in ANY case against BR/EOM/Mercs/Sansha/Drones.
The simple fact that you can snipe and insta Pop Frigates and Cruiser beats out the Golem already by far in terms of speed.
And i dont think we need to start talking about the price of Javs, that reduces the money a lot per mission.
Paladin dont outrun Golem. Why to waste your main weapons to frigs and cruisers?
Missiles to BS/BC and drones to des/cruiser/frigs and you're done.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.03.21 23:32:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 21/03/2009 23:33:21
Originally by: Mystafyre
Paladin dont outrun Golem. Why to waste your main weapons to frigs and cruisers?
Missiles to BS/BC and drones to des/cruiser/frigs and you're done.
But you are done too slow. It's not a waste to pop small stuff with main guns.
I'm now down to 9 minutes of time spent out of warp in the main mission room in Sansha Pie Invasion with the Nightmare, as a personal best. Let's see your (or anyones) Golem beat that. I know my Golem can't.
Paladin might no be quite the ship the Nightmare is, when it comes to killing speed, but it should be close.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.03.21 23:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mystafyre
Originally by: fuxinos
Originally by: Gul Rashen
My Paladin and Golem missiontimes against Sanshas and Bloods are ~equal. Against all others my Golem is faster.
This cant be true, not even slightly.
Paladin outruns a Golem in ANY case against BR/EOM/Mercs/Sansha/Drones.
The simple fact that you can snipe and insta Pop Frigates and Cruiser beats out the Golem already by far in terms of speed.
And i dont think we need to start talking about the price of Javs, that reduces the money a lot per mission.
Paladin dont outrun Golem. Why to waste your main weapons to frigs and cruisers?
Missiles to BS/BC and drones to des/cruiser/frigs and you're done.
Sadly that's rarely the case they match that well. You're normally done with BS/BC's before drones even chewed through frigates. Destroyers go quick with either, and cruisers are about matchable in speed with drones or missiles - but still slow.
I guess it might work if you salvage everything, including frigates, but in that case you're normally better of with a CNR and salvageboat or something similar.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 305434
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.03.22 11:35:00 -
[41]
Originally by: NoNah
That's where mission completion and mission killing time differs. The nightmare is often faster att killing, but if you want it salvaged, it's Paladin all the way. And once you go that route, the difference between paladin and golem isn't that hysterically huge, it's still noticable, but not huge.
Aye, I get what you mean, but mission completion is the wrong term to use, surely. Not the least because we have this button to press, "Complete", which "completes the mission".
A majority (not counted 'em, just feels like a majority) of the missions just aren't worth salvaging, like, all the crappy missions. Still, I do salvage what I can on the spot sometimes, when using a Marauder. Sometimes do the ball of wrecks too, but so many of the Sansha / Blood missions I get the ships start out at too far distance to be worth salvaging.
I've been wanting to get a Paladin to complement the Nightmare, but giving up that 4th HS and the slightly better tracking & range, for 40km tractors and a cargobay, just...is something I'm hesitant to do. If you could fit 4x T2 Tachs + Hwy Cap booster on it without fitting mods, then maybe. (Those 'Ballista' tachs are a bit short on damage output for my taste, so going Cosmos is no good either.)
I do have a nice Pulse fit I could use, only 26 dps less and 13-14% worse tracking then the Pulse Nightmare, but Pulse is only better for two missions (of the ones I get), Damsel and Sansha Vengeance. That kind of expenditure for just two missions seems a bit...wasteful, to me.
When considering L5's, it's even worse, as buffer shield tanks rule supreme, well, perhaps a bit of an overstatement, but they can fit more damage mods.
Regardless, I'll probably get one sooner or later anyway. Even if it just ends up sitting beside the Rail Kronos, collecting dust.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Reapers
DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2009.03.22 14:44:00 -
[42]
Paladin vs golem is just a silly way of comparing.
For people to have fun, they can use any ship they want. I did a single lvl4 in a punisher 2 years ago (back when there used to be a lvl4 that had 2 cruisers as a enemy).
And I have done a lvl5 solo a couple of weeks ago in a hac ("Light out" lvl5 is actually is about as hard as a lvl3 mission. Lol)
If people want isk/hour - then golem and paladin/nightmare rule. Paladin/Nightmare for blood/sansha and golem for the rest. Simple maths really. If people want to play for fun - then use whatever you want.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2009.03.22 15:10:00 -
[43]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Qui Shon
Edited by: Qui Shon on 21/03/2009 23:33:21
Originally by: Mystafyre
Paladin dont outrun Golem. Why to waste your main weapons to frigs and cruisers?
Missiles to BS/BC and drones to des/cruiser/frigs and you're done.
But you are done too slow. It's not a waste to pop small stuff with main guns.
I'm now down to 9 minutes of time spent out of warp in the main mission room in Sansha Pie Invasion with the Nightmare, as a personal best. Let's see your (or anyones) Golem beat that. I know my Golem can't.
Paladin might no be quite the ship the Nightmare is, when it comes to killing speed, but it should be close.
That's where mission completion and mission killing time differs. The nightmare is often faster att killing, but if you want it salvaged, it's Paladin all the way. And once you go that route, the difference between paladin and golem isn't that hysterically huge, it's still noticable, but not huge.
This is it. That's why I alternate Paladin/Nightmare/CNR on my alt. On certain missions the loot isn't worth crap and I want range/speed. Then I use a Nightmare with Sensor Booster or AB fitted. In other missions I instapop frigs/cruisers at range with the Paladin and then kill stuff >40km so I can tractor/loot while slowboating to gates/killing the last things. In certain cases the tracking disruption is just too heavy even with multiple tracking comps/max skill so I just use the CNR.
All tested, that's how I get the best speed out of it. And I never go back to loot afterwards btw, I only loot what gets in range of my Paladin. In case of the Blockade, I get ~60-75% of the loot/salvage from the warp in. In the AE I get all salvage and most loot (cargo bay fills up). Pirate Invasion/Vengeance I kill the small crap at range and loot the BS while taking them down. In Gone Berserk I get all salvage/loot, just like Damsel in Distress. Most other missions the loot/salvage isn't worth the time and is either run by Nightmare or CNR.
But anycase, there's situations where it's perfectly reasonable to fire at frigs at range. It pulls things closer to you for salvage/loot and you don't have to come back - same time as the salvage/loot actually is worth the little extra time over the Nightmare running it.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.22 16:47:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 22/03/2009 16:54:00
Originally by: Qui Shon
I'm now down to 9 minutes of time spent out of warp in the main mission room in Sansha Pie Invasion with the Nightmare, as a personal best. Let's see your (or anyones) Golem beat that. I know my Golem can't.
Never stopped only the Main Room. My time using only Javelins + 1 PWNAGE TP and T2 BCS was 17mins for the whole Mission(warpin-warpout). Using CNs or T1-Torps for the NPCs <42km and 2 TPs+CN-BCS may boost the Missiontime 3 or 4 minutes.
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Tractory
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Posted - 2009.03.23 08:47:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Xapharia
Originally by: NoNah
Hmm, funny statement imho, how is it overtanked once you get atleast 2 tps and a ab on it? Got any decent fitting?
Reason I don't like the Golem is it has crappy range with torps without T2 ammo, and even with T2 ammo it has to chase the NPCs around when they orbit outside your range. I shoot a lot of long-range BS that orbit out to 60km, and with lasers I can just go for crystals with better range if I have to. Outside torp range you also deal 0 damage, while lasers just loose a bit of their damage to gain the extra range needed to pop those pesky NPCs orbiting that structure 100km away. Plus you use up half your cargo with all the missiles you have to carry around.
I realize that you are exaggerating to make a point but half your cargo bay full of torps is just ridiculous. I rarely undock with more than 1200 torps onboard for a lvl 4. And if range is going to be an issue, and lets be honest you should know what you are facing if you are taking a golem into a lvl 4, then just leave it docked and bring out your dusty cruise fitted CNR, im sure most golem pilots have one sat at their mission hub, and probably faction fit too ;)
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2009.03.23 09:17:00 -
[46]
Golem for sure
many dont understand that the point of the golem is to fit 2 target painters and torps and insta pop any bc/cruiser with alpha dmg. you dont need to perma tank, just enough to kill of the enemies fast, nevertheless it will easily tank 1000+ dps for several minutes.
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Rivur'Tam
the united
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Posted - 2009.03.23 12:01:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
Originally by: Terianna Eri
I say the Paladin. Tachyons have wonderful damage against most targets and in my experience blow though even things like lowend gurista and angel BS with ease. Plus you can switch to pulse lasers if you have missions at very short range, and 15km pulse optimal + 14-15km web is a nice combo.
It also has a really awesome capacitor and doesn't need any pimping on the tank at all to be good.
Unfortunately with T2 Tachyons it lacks the grid to fit even a single T2 Large Armor Rep, you'll need to use a faction one. While it's worth the investment, it is a bit annoying that you'll need to add 400 million or so to the price of the ship since it can't use a T2 rep with its biggest guns.
Which is also why I don't understand why the Kronos has enough grid to easily fit a Dual T2 Large Armor Rep layout even with its biggest guns.
YOU ARE WRONG fitting 4 neutron II's and dual lars even faction ones leaves u no grid at all no ab no cap booster, tbh i think kronos and paladin need more grid.
Originally by: Khornne
First fact ist that Marauders are PVE ships.
The Golem is the best one of those because it can adapt to any mission/plex you run in terms of damage.
It's that simple.
YOU ARE ALSO WRONG kronos and paladin are awesome pvpships the 100's of kills i've had in these ships proves it
I don't pve very often but if ur doing lv4 missions i would suspect that the golem would be the best due to its bouns but i would go for kronos its fast with an ab tanks awesome and dose great dps i guess u could fit 425's and use ur drones on the frigs.
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Paisley Snatch
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:23:00 -
[48]
I don't know about the best but I use a Torp Golem and its a lot of fun. For drone and mainly cruiser/frig missions I use the Nighthawk.
A couple corp mates use the Paladin and like it a lot too so you probably can't go wrong. I never really hear of anyone flying the Kronos. There might be a reason for that.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Reapers
DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Rivur'Tam
YOU ARE ALSO WRONG kronos and paladin are awesome pvpships the 100's of kills i've had in these ships proves it
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:40:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Misanth
This is it. That's why I alternate Paladin/Nightmare/CNR on my alt. On certain missions the loot isn't worth crap and I want range/speed. Then I use a Nightmare with Sensor Booster or AB fitted. In other missions I instapop frigs/cruisers at range with the Paladin and then kill stuff >40km so I can tractor/loot while slowboating to gates/killing the last things. In certain cases the tracking disruption is just too heavy even with multiple tracking comps/max skill so I just use the CNR.
All tested, that's how I get the best speed out of it. And I never go back to loot afterwards btw, I only loot what gets in range of my Paladin. In case of the Blockade, I get ~60-75% of the loot/salvage from the warp in. In the AE I get all salvage and most loot (cargo bay fills up). Pirate Invasion/Vengeance I kill the small crap at range and loot the BS while taking them down. In Gone Berserk I get all salvage/loot, just like Damsel in Distress. Most other missions the loot/salvage isn't worth the time and is either run by Nightmare or CNR.
But anycase, there's situations where it's perfectly reasonable to fire at frigs at range. It pulls things closer to you for salvage/loot and you don't have to come back - same time as the salvage/loot actually is worth the little extra time over the Nightmare running it.
Actually, I was running some missions on my Raven recently for purposes of gathering times in a "Drake is better than Raven at L4's" thread, and I'm starting to be of the opinion that a Raven might actually be a better mission runner than the CNR for this express reason - you have two highs for tractor/salvager where the CNR only has room for a tractor.
It'll require alot more study before I can come to any conclusions based on it. Maybe I should ask in the missions forum to see if anyone's done it already.... 
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Paisley Snatch
I don't know about the best but I use a Torp Golem and its a lot of fun. For drone and mainly cruiser/frig missions I use the Nighthawk.
A couple corp mates use the Paladin and like it a lot too so you probably can't go wrong. I never really hear of anyone flying the Kronos. There might be a reason for that.
One of my corpmates flies the Kronos for missions...
My Paladin does everything just as fast, and we do missions for the gallente :P
__________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Mercurye
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:06:00 -
[52]
What about a Vargur? I am quite keen on learning to skill up for one
Artillery plus a scripted Tracking Computer looks good ..but is it good enough? ^^
--~--~--~--~
~NOTE: Freak~ |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:17:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mercurye
What about a Vargur? I am quite keen on learning to skill up for one
Artillery plus a scripted Tracking Computer looks good ..but is it good enough? ^^
Did they boost its grid while I wasn't looking?
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Mercurye
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:20:00 -
[54]
Dont know...never had one...
I take it the grid is lacking? ^^;)
--~--~--~--~
~NOTE: Freak~ |
AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:22:00 -
[55]
Just slightly.... |
Xapharia
WOLIMAZO INC
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:28:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tractory
I realize that you are exaggerating to make a point but half your cargo bay full of torps is just ridiculous. I rarely undock with more than 1200 torps onboard for a lvl 4. And if range is going to be an issue, and lets be honest you should know what you are facing if you are taking a golem into a lvl 4, then just leave it docked and bring out your dusty cruise fitted CNR, im sure most golem pilots have one sat at their mission hub, and probably faction fit too ;)
I am considering places and circumstances where you can't simply dock up when you want in the statement about filling the cargo with torps. Some might call it risky but I find marauders to be very useful for 0.0 ratting/missions too, at which point the number of stations rapidly goes down and the ammo cost goes up rapidly.
As for the issue of range, yes you can always fit cruise on your Golem and gimp your damage nicely. As you suggest there is always the CNR, which only has 1 extra high-slot for utility, forcing you to choose either salvager or tractor if you want to keep looting/salvaging the wrecks (along with no tractor bonus). Lastly, if I moved from CNR to Golem I would also transfer all the useful faction fitting over to my new shiny ship, and most people don't want to waste time moving it back to the dust-collector for one mission.
_________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Shatner19
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:28:00 -
[57]
for the vargur:
a rcu2 plus 4 faction 1200mm guns will fit with a pretty nice tank.
optimal fitting is to use 800mm AC's since it gets a nice bonus to falloff, I think you cant get up to 60Km falloff on AC's. and dps is significantly higher.
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Rivur'Tam
the united
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:49:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Rivur'Tam
YOU ARE ALSO WRONG kronos and paladin are awesome pvpships the 100's of kills i've had in these ships proves it
I presume u are agreeing with me i think its sad that these awesome ships are wasted on mission running,
The kronos which i use, its epic it out dps a mega, out tanks a hyp,
Has a massive cargo bay for loot and cap boosters.
I've yet to come across a single bs that can break my tank or even make me use the second repper
It dose have the weak sensor strength but a falcon will jam any bs, I fit 2 med faction smartbombs that make short work of ecm drones.
Sure it will die if u get blobbed but what won't,
But in small scale pvp not much can beat it.
Plus the kronos looks awesome and it may cost as much as 7 megas but its only isk and thats easy to come by nowadays.
look here proof i use it in pvp all the time
119 kills wiv kronos
If anyone wants a fit hit me up ingame.
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EFT Warrior
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Posted - 2009.03.24 03:20:00 -
[59]
I am still confused why people insist on artillery for the Vargur. Rails and Tachs work well on the other gun boat marauders, but don't gimp a setup with bad damage and bad tracking by using artillery on a Vargur.
If you aren't using ACs on a Vargur, you're doing it wrong.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:10:00 -
[60]
Originally by: EFT Warrior
I am still confused why people insist on artillery for the Vargur. Rails and Tachs work well on the other gun boat marauders, but don't gimp a setup with bad damage and bad tracking by using artillery on a Vargur.
If you aren't using ACs on a Vargur, you're doing it wrong.
Stop now , or everybody starts using vargur :(
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Tractory
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:47:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Xapharia
Originally by: Tractory
I realize that you are exaggerating to make a point but half your cargo bay full of torps is just ridiculous. I rarely undock with more than 1200 torps onboard for a lvl 4. And if range is going to be an issue, and lets be honest you should know what you are facing if you are taking a golem into a lvl 4, then just leave it docked and bring out your dusty cruise fitted CNR, im sure most golem pilots have one sat at their mission hub, and probably faction fit too ;)
I am considering places and circumstances where you can't simply dock up when you want in the statement about filling the cargo with torps. Some might call it risky but I find marauders to be very useful for 0.0 ratting/missions too, at which point the number of stations rapidly goes down and the ammo cost goes up rapidly.
As for the issue of range, yes you can always fit cruise on your Golem and gimp your damage nicely. As you suggest there is always the CNR, which only has 1 extra high-slot for utility, forcing you to choose either salvager or tractor if you want to keep looting/salvaging the wrecks (along with no tractor bonus). Lastly, if I moved from CNR to Golem I would also transfer all the useful faction fitting over to my new shiny ship, and most people don't want to waste time moving it back to the dust-collector for one mission.
I have faction gear for my dust collecting ships too, so no need to swap fittings around ;) Personally i wouldnt call it risky using your golem to rat in 0.0, i do it all the time. This pretty much negates any arguments against torps and lack of range though as you dont get spawns out of torp range very often unless someone has pulled the place holder 100's of kms away from the belt. Trick is to use your golem in 0.0 systems near a friendly POS and jump your ammo / ship in with a carrier and loot / salvage out in the same way. 10k of torps goes an awful long way, definately more ammo than you need to fill the hold of a carrier, and for longer durations just fill an indie up with ammo before you jump out.
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Prilo Czato
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:53:00 -
[62]
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and state the (to me) obvious: personal preference way outweighs hard numbers. I love my Kronos, and though I know it would be excellent for PvP, I'm not gonna risk it at that for one simple reason: I fit it properly...
Why do all of you insist on shaving off as much as possible and only use Tech II gear? Faction/deadspace/officer mods are the only option if you plan on getting any 'real' use out of the potential in a marauder. If you're spending 7-800 mill on a marauder and tech II fit, you'd be almost just as good spending less on a faction BS and faction mods.
If you're not pimping you marauder you're doing it wrong!
[Asbestos suit]
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.03.24 10:09:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 24/03/2009 10:09:45
Originally by: Prilo Czato
If you're not pimping you marauder you're doing it wrong!
If you're pimping anything other than the gank you're doing it wrong, tbh. If T2 fits and tanks well enough, why bother spending more?
__________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Prilo Czato
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Posted - 2009.03.24 10:50:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 24/03/2009 10:09:45
Originally by: Prilo Czato
If you're not pimping you marauder you're doing it wrong!
If you're pimping anything other than the gank you're doing it wrong, tbh. If T2 fits and tanks well enough, why bother spending more?
God, err CCP, made X-type armor hardeners for a reason...
And my personal preference is a little of both gank and tank, I'm in no rush finishing the missions quickly, as I both loot and salvage as I go, which IMO is part of the role of the marauder.
And also, why NOT pimp it all over when you can? Having tried most of what EvE has to offer so far, RL and family come first, and as such, spending it all on the very best is my idea of a good time, and apart from quite a fair share it seems, I am playing a game...
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Khornne
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.24 11:31:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Prilo Czato
God, err CCP, made X-type armor hardeners for a reason...
Yes, for super-capitals. Otherwise, get out.
-- si vis pacem, para bellum
If you wish for peace, prepare for war. |
Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.03.24 11:38:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Prilo Czato
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 24/03/2009 10:09:45
Originally by: Prilo Czato
If you're not pimping you marauder you're doing it wrong!
If you're pimping anything other than the gank you're doing it wrong, tbh. If T2 fits and tanks well enough, why bother spending more?
God, err CCP, made X-type armor hardeners for a reason...
And my personal preference is a little of both gank and tank, I'm in no rush finishing the missions quickly, as I both loot and salvage as I go, which IMO is part of the role of the marauder.
And also, why NOT pimp it all over when you can? Having tried most of what EvE has to offer so far, RL and family come first, and as such, spending it all on the very best is my idea of a good time, and apart from quite a fair share it seems, I am playing a game...
How about this - from a practical point of view, you're doing it wrong. You don't have to be practical about everything, most people aren't. And there's nothing wrong with flying your ship the way you want to. But if your tank is holding, you won't improve your mission running time at all by adding more tank. It's a pretty simple concept to think about honestly. Mission NPC's aren't going to die faster because you bought teh leet complex hardeners for your ship, your Centus armor repper isn't going to start flinging missiles at the rats, and since you weren't dying previously, they aren't really helping you at all. It's different if you're spending money just to permatank, but tank for the sake of tank is equivalent to wasting your ISK. :P
How you justify blowing cash on missions ships because "family comes first", I don't quite understand, lol. How about just say that you like flying around in ridiculous mission ships, which sounds like the case. But I'm pretty sure you can be a miner and have "family come first", or a PVP, or what have you. Pimping mission ships isn't related to loving your wife. :P
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Prilo Czato
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Posted - 2009.03.24 11:45:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Traderboz
How about this - from a practical point of view, you're doing it wrong. You don't have to be practical about everything, most people aren't. And there's nothing wrong with flying your ship the way you want to. But if your tank is holding, you won't improve your mission running time at all by adding more tank. It's a pretty simple concept to think about honestly. Mission NPC's aren't going to die faster because you bought teh leet complex hardeners for your ship, your Centus armor repper isn't going to start flinging missiles at the rats, and since you weren't dying previously, they aren't really helping you at all. It's different if you're spending money just to permatank, but tank for the sake of tank is equivalent to wasting your ISK. :P
How you justify blowing cash on missions ships because "family comes first", I don't quite understand, lol. How about just say that you like flying around in ridiculous mission ships, which sounds like the case. But I'm pretty sure you can be a miner and have "family come first", or a PVP, or what have you. Pimping mission ships isn't related to loving your wife. :P
All true, I'm just saying that if you're going to buy an expensive ship, cheap fittings are a waste, a Navythron or CNR with faction fittings is cheaper and better than a tech II fitted Kronos or Golem... But, my main motivation for using x-type hardeners and such is to free up low slots for mag stabs to improve my officer 425mm rails...
That said, I feel no real need to defend my view, if it works for me that's all I really care about.
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.03.24 11:51:00 -
[68]
And I agree, it's not a bad thing to spend money on your tank if there's a purpose. Getting it to permarun, using fewer tank modules, etc. are all great reasons. It's just the people that fit more tank for the purpose of having huge EFT tank, well, they're just ****ing away ISK for no good reason, haha. Then again, it's their ISK. :P
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Altana Altusium
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:09:00 -
[69]
Originally by: EFT Warrior
If you aren't using ACs on a Vargur, you're doing it wrong.
82km falloff?! WTH, I tried the same setup using same implants in EFT and only get 70km...
At the same time, your optimal seems to be a bit low for having a RepFleetTE in your low.
Btw: there are cheaper ways to achieve the same tank on the Vargur...
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:59:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
Originally by: Terianna Eri
I say the Paladin. Tachyons have wonderful damage against most targets and in my experience blow though even things like lowend gurista and angel BS with ease. Plus you can switch to pulse lasers if you have missions at very short range, and 15km pulse optimal + 14-15km web is a nice combo.
It also has a really awesome capacitor and doesn't need any pimping on the tank at all to be good.
Unfortunately with T2 Tachyons it lacks the grid to fit even a single T2 Large Armor Rep, you'll need to use a faction one. While it's worth the investment, it is a bit annoying that you'll need to add 400 million or so to the price of the ship since it can't use a T2 rep with its biggest guns.
Which is also why I don't understand why the Kronos has enough grid to easily fit a Dual T2 Large Armor Rep layout even with its biggest guns.
look at how powerful tachyons are. Look at how ****ty rails are. It will come to you.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:01:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 24/03/2009 10:09:45
Originally by: Prilo Czato
If you're not pimping you marauder you're doing it wrong!
If you're pimping anything other than the gank you're doing it wrong, tbh. If T2 fits and tanks well enough, why bother spending more?
Pimping tank IS "pimping", as in increasing gank, as it frees up slots for other stuff. That's the way I do it at least. Though I don't "pimp" that much, I try to stay reasonable.
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Rivur'Tam
the united
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:02:00 -
[72]
Tbh u really need to use faction items on a kronos first of all to get the fit u want and ofc to give u the extra edge but i stand by my words "they are pvp ships ratting in them is a waste
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EFT Warrior
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:22:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Altana Altusium
Originally by: EFT Warrior
If you aren't using ACs on a Vargur, you're doing it wrong.
82km falloff?! WTH, I tried the same setup using same implants in EFT and only get 70km...
At the same time, your optimal seems to be a bit low for having a RepFleetTE in your low.
Btw: there are cheaper ways to achieve the same tank on the Vargur...
I threw in a soothsayer booster that gives you the 82km falloff (versus the 68km you would have with implants), and the tank is a bit overkill as is. I used crystal implants because people can't suicide you for those.
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Amarrian Cougar
Amarr
Vanguard Investments
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:28:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Amarrian Cougar on 24/03/2009 19:29:03
Originally by: Rivur'Tam
Tbh u really need to use faction items on a kronos first of all to get the fit u want and ofc to give u the extra edge but i stand by my words "they are pvp ships ratting in them is a waste
I saw your post in the other thread and checked your link. You have some very large brass ball to be using a Kronos like that and I LOVE IT. Keep up the good work and try to keep me out of your sights.
On topic:
Paladin is probably best for PvE mission running. Here is a cap stable setup that I will be using in a few days when I get my Paladin (also take into effect that it is cap stable and fitable with MY skills):
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Small Tractor Beam
Small Tractor Beam
Salvager II
Stasis Webifier II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Amarr Navy (damage specfic) Hardner
Amarr Navy (damage specfic) Hardner
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Amarr Navy Heatsink
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
x5 Hammerhead II
or
x5 Hobgoblin II
With implants and skill factored it has the following:
780 DPS
5134 Volley
300 SDE
300 RDE
Cap stable at %51 with everything running.
______________
Filing petitions with CCP is like trying to scratch your throat by swallowing razor blades. It's slow, painful and you never get the end result you wanted. |
Snutraer
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:24:00 -
[75]
[Kronos, Kronos dps]
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Armor specific Hardener
Gallente Navy Armor specific Hardener
Gallente Navy Armor specific Hardener
Dark Blood Large Armor Repairer
True Sansha Heavy Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800
100MN Afterburner II
Domination Stasis Webifier
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Auxiliary Nano Pump I
875 dps with implants and all skills to V, infinite cap.
Maybe with a good complex LAR I could remove one of the hardeners for another MFS
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.03.25 01:45:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 24/03/2009 10:09:45
Originally by: Prilo Czato
If you're not pimping you marauder you're doing it wrong!
If you're pimping anything other than the gank you're doing it wrong, tbh. If T2 fits and tanks well enough, why bother spending more?
Pimping tank IS "pimping", as in increasing gank, as it frees up slots for other stuff. That's the way I do it at least. Though I don't "pimp" that much, I try to stay reasonable.
I guess you could pimp the tank so that you can get away with a 3 or even 2-slot tank and add a tracking enhancer or two...
__________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.25 02:00:00 -
[77]
I tried pvp in Paladin, Kronos, Vargur - each ship type at least twice
Vargur drops out of the race right away. It has a great shield tank - if you are willing to spend billions of isk, but other than that, nothing special, with serious grid problems
Kronos and Paladin are both good for pvp specifically because they have something no other ship has: 90% web capability. Spend 45 mil on gallente navy web, and you got 90% 14km web.
Both ships are very similar in their bonuses and fittings. But, after close experience, Paladin comes out on top. The main reason is that, while they both do pretty much same damage output, Paladin has optimal range between 15-30 km easy, while Kronos has optimal at 4.5-12 km.
That's the main difference - triple range advantage of Paladin over Kronos. You'd think that blasters do much more damage, but I found that advantage to be very small, definitely not worth sacrificing triple range advantage
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.03.25 02:44:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Amarrian Cougar
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Small Tractor Beam
Small Tractor Beam
Salvager II
Stasis Webifier II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Amarr Navy (damage specfic) Hardner
Amarr Navy (damage specfic) Hardner
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Amarr Navy Heatsink
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
1) Never, ever, ever use gleam. It's complete trash and low refire rate on tachs + only 4 guns means that faction ammo is more than cheap enough to use all the time.
2) Overtanked, tbh, but whatever works for you...
3) You can get by with a lot fewer cap modules. If EFT says it'll only last for 9 minutes with everything running, it'll probably last forever - your guns aren't on 100% of the time, your rep probably isn't either, etc.
__________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Khandara Seraphim
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:25:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Khandara Seraphim on 25/03/2009 13:27:12
Gleam is what god uses to judge if you're ready for T2 beam lasers or not. You failed that test
AN multis are always better than close range T2 ammo. Always.
I have 3 heatsinks on mine with 3 specific hardeners or 2 hardeners and EANM with a AN Large rep and I never have any issues with cap
Also, spring for a faction web. TS web gets you uber webbing out to 14km which is huge for hitting some of those cruisers and destroyers
Edit- I've got a question of my own. 2 tractors and 1 salvager or 1 tractor and 2 salvagers? I've been using the latter but i'm not too sure which is more effective
___________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more. |
Rivur'Tam
the united
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Posted - 2009.03.25 19:09:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Amarrian Cougar
Edited by: Amarrian Cougar on 24/03/2009 19:29:03
Originally by: Rivur'Tam
Tbh u really need to use faction items on a kronos first of all to get the fit u want and ofc to give u the extra edge but i stand by my words "they are pvp ships ratting in them is a waste
I saw your post in the other thread and checked your link. You have some very large brass ball to be using a Kronos like that and I LOVE IT. Keep up the good work and try to keep me out of your sights.
yeah i use it often i love the ship i have yet to get into a fight were its been under pressure i love my shiny ships as u can see from my ships and weapons list :P
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Shatner19
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Posted - 2009.03.25 19:14:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Khandara Seraphim
Edit- I've got a question of my own. 2 tractors and 1 salvager or 1 tractor and 2 salvagers? I've been using the latter but i'm not too sure which is more effective
i think 3 tractors is best, ball it up come back with a cane with 8 salvagers. otherwise 2 tractors/ 1 salvager, if you're sitting in a marauder you should have almost maxed salvaging skills, that means getting something out of the first or second cycle, thus your time limiting factor becomes the ability to keep feeding the salvager at a fast enough rate.
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Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's
CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2009.03.25 19:24:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Rivur'Tam
look here proof i use it in pvp all the time
119 kills wiv kronos
If anyone wants a fit hit me up ingame.
I don't wanna sound like a smartass, really, but all the killmails you're on are ridiculous gank-fests, e.g. 10-15 BSes + 10-15 support versus a noobship. You can hardly call that PvP'ing for one, and second that doesn't show awesomeness of any given ship in the slightest. You could've been in a Moa for most if not all those fights and it wouldn't have mattered in the slightest.
Also, 0 (zero) losses? The best damn PvP'ers lose a ship every now and then. If your killboard proves one thing, then it's that you don't have fights, you have ganks. Not judging here or anything, but as I said that hardly proofs the PvP-awesomeness of a ship.
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Rivur'Tam
the united
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Posted - 2009.03.25 21:39:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Disco Flint
Originally by: Rivur'Tam
look here proof i use it in pvp all the time
119 kills wiv kronos
If anyone wants a fit hit me up ingame.
I don't wanna sound like a smartass, really, but all the killmails you're on are ridiculous gank-fests, e.g. 10-15 BSes + 10-15 support versus a noobship. You can hardly call that PvP'ing for one, and second that doesn't show awesomeness of any given ship in the slightest. You could've been in a Moa for most if not all those fights and it wouldn't have mattered in the slightest.
Also, 0 (zero) losses? The best damn PvP'ers lose a ship every now and then. If your killboard proves one thing, then it's that you don't have fights, you have ganks. Not judging here or anything, but as I said that hardly proofs the PvP-awesomeness of a ship.
For a start i do lose ships i just not lost any in the last 3 months and we have plenty of fights but a killmail only shows who died not how many friends was with him.
You are bit over zealous 15 bs with 15 support lol i don't think so our camps are usually from 1 to 15
i think u'll find i had plenty of small fights and solo kills with teh kronos
I'm a pirate i camp gates thats how i play and make my isk
I kill anything that don't pay i kill every noobship i see because there is no point ransoming it ,a battleship i will ransom however and more pay than don't even due to that i have many battleship kills.
I hate roaming its boring.
Roaming about for hours on end and ganking ratters with 20 hacs is no different from camping gates and i hate 200v200 fights there just a laggy mess.
By the looks of it ur new to pvp or bad at it so maybe get more experiance b4 you try to flame me even though u done it in a nice way.
I get That attitude all the time.
I have hundreds of solo kills in many ships.
I still stand with my point i use my kronos in pvp all the time and its awesome.
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Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's
CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2009.03.25 23:27:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Rivur'Tam
By the looks of it ur new to pvp or bad at it so maybe get more experiance b4 you try to flame me even though u done it in a nice way.
I get That attitude all the time.
How nice of you. Someone points out that the "proof" you presented is irrelevant so that person must obviously be a noob. Silly of me. Not all people live for killboard-whoring btw, I for one find it much more enjoyable to go roaming in small gangs (5 ppl or less) or even *gasp* solo. I don't even have an alt for falcons or scouting! Heresy!
And if I had wanted to flame you I'd have opened with something like "Yo, ****tard". But I didn't, I was merely pointing out a flaw in your so-called proof.
See, the point I was making wasn't about you either being godlike or sucky at pvp. I didn't want to condemn piracy or ganking, I think I stated that quite clearly. I said with the kind of "fights" you obviously have in your Kronos you're in no position to argue about its pvp worthiness.
Yes, for the majority of your guys' gangs I've probably exaggerated, it's more around 10-15 total. Nevertheless you're always there in way superior numbers and in way superior ships.
Originally by: Rivur'Tam
but its not a gank its a 1v1
Hahahaha no. At least be the **** honest about it. I have no problem with ganking, heck I've killed people for stupid names, bad bios and simply because I was bored. Usually, the odds were vastly in my favour when engaging. Whatever, this is EVE, you don't need a reason to pop someone. But it's still just that, a gank, not a fight.
You can't evaluate ship performance in a gank other than how fast does it lock, how high is its alpha. If you wish to present "proof" of performance, be sure that the proof contains actual evidence of performance as your proof shows nothing of the kind. As I said, in most of the fights you could have been in a Moa and it wouldn't have made a damn difference, except you would be lower on the killmails and a few others a bit higher.
So in the end you would have 100something kills in a Moa, but certainly you wouldn't come onto the forums and argue that the Moa must be a superior ship because of that, would you?
Originally by: Rivur'Tam
By the looks of it ur new to pvp or bad at it so maybe get more experiance b4 you try to flame me even though u done it in a nice way.
Really, I can't even begin to tell you how that sentence made my day :D
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Rivur'Tam
the united
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Posted - 2009.03.26 04:36:00 -
[85]
Look u can dress it anyway u want but ur trying to flame me for my play style.
I told u i used the kronos as well as nearly ever other ship i have in solo and small gang fights so i know how well the ship performs.
If u want proof u can go through thousands of kills looking i have nothing to prove to you.
Just because i camp gates 90% of the time dosen't mean i don't know what i'm talking about i have 4 chars and over 10k kills between them and i have them on killboards to prove hence my comment on ur pvp recored i guess u will say u don't post on killboards but most of eve useses bc or eve kb so ur kills would show.
And since most of ur kills on battleclinic are manually posted u have been posting them and less than hunderd kills would make u new or bad at pvp.
maybe ur genuine but i get people like u slagging me off and flaming me just for fact i have many kills and every kill i get with my nyx someone has a comment on what do u want me to do with keep it in a pos and never use it ?
I been playing this game for 5 years and i know what i'm talking about.
i posted that to show that the kronos is a useful pvp ship as someone stated that there pve ships. what has ur post added to teh thread apart from a badly discuised attempt to flame me ?
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Kentz Entrik
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.11 20:08:00 -
[86]
Getting back on topic (not to derail your angry time, and just to throw in my 2 isk) I fly vargur (PVE) mainly due to my skill set, and love it. The speed can't be matched, which is underutilized IMHO. The thing is just as versatile as a golem damage wise, can re-fit for sniping and take out those pesky long range orbiters while sitting on an acceleration gate and sipping a beer, or ac's can take out even orbiting frigates at anything over 8k range with extreme prejudice (you know, if they've got you ****ed). A point of interest: The largest gun is not always the best fit. When running artillery, I have plain old scout 1200's fit (I'm not made of money you know), and though it takes more time, it's sometimes easier than chasing them down (though that's not too much time at almost 400 mps, ab enabled). Plus, alpha strike is sometimes a thing to cause joy. I do not find this boat lacking in any way (outside of marauder specific of course) but then I tend to like the well rounded solution.
I am training for a paladin for something new, because I like the look, because I want to diversify, and gain the ability to fly a nightmare too. I can't imagine ever ditching the Vargur though, and am already kind of dreading the snail speed...
Sorry for the angry time interruption. Please proceed.
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Marzaris Onbarny
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Posted - 2009.05.12 00:11:00 -
[87]
problem with golem is the defenders, even when fired as a group the defenders take a certain amount of hip off the incomming missle, when they do so because each missle is doing 2x dmg , the defender is basicly removing 2x the amount each shot so you are making the enemy defenders better, as some missions can put you at 80 km from a baddie with three defenders in the air at a time, thats like getting hit with 6 defenders on your normal 8 cruise launchers. Golem is the easy mans maruader, the best I'd say is the minny one, personal opinion.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.12 00:20:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Amarrian Cougar
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Tachyon Beam Laser II -Gleam L
Small Tractor Beam
Small Tractor Beam
Salvager II
Stasis Webifier II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Amarr Navy (damage specfic) Hardner
Amarr Navy (damage specfic) Hardner
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Amarr Navy Heatsink
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
x5 Hammerhead II
or
x5 Hobgoblin II
Gleam, 1 HS? Fail more, cougs.
Also, no tracking mods on a tachy ship makes baby jesus cry.
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.12 00:27:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kentz Entrik
Getting back on topic (not to derail your angry time, and just to throw in my 2 isk) I fly vargur (PVE) mainly due to my skill set, and love it. The speed can't be matched, which is underutilized IMHO. The thing is just as versatile as a golem damage wise, can re-fit for sniping and take out those pesky long range orbiters while sitting on an acceleration gate and sipping a beer, or ac's can take out even orbiting frigates at anything over 8k range with extreme prejudice (you know, if they've got you ****ed). A point of interest: The largest gun is not always the best fit. When running artillery, I have plain old scout 1200's fit (I'm not made of money you know), and though it takes more time, it's sometimes easier than chasing them down (though that's not too much time at almost 400 mps, ab enabled). Plus, alpha strike is sometimes a thing to cause joy. I do not find this boat lacking in any way (outside of marauder specific of course) but then I tend to like the well rounded solution.
I am training for a paladin for something new, because I like the look, because I want to diversify, and gain the ability to fly a nightmare too. I can't imagine ever ditching the Vargur though, and am already kind of dreading the snail speed...
Sorry for the angry time interruption. Please proceed.
Um...considering that you necro'd a 2 month old thread, I don't think you interrupted anything.
This is a post. It says stuff. |
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