Originally by: Furb Killer

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Lulz, you seriously think the only goal of a cov ops is to help you grief mission runners.


And all your ideas/exploits are not the way you could have kept using that cov ops pilot, but just continue thinking of new ways.

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Originally by: Rathelm

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My understanding of the war dec is it's used to take chunks of 0.0 space not to harass a mining operation of some small corporation. The fact that people want to use it for other things is fine, but I'm sure CCP didn't design it for a griefing mechanism. The fact that you claim there are no civilians is very closed minded. We're not an army.

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Originally by: Rathelm

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My understanding of the war dec is it's used to take chunks of 0.0 space not to harass a mining operation of some small corporation.

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Originally by: Tai Paktu

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For those of you saying "lol, OP is terribad at PvP," then go fight him. I'm sure he'd be more than happy to have the extra targets.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Originally by: Furb Killer

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Lulz, you seriously think the only goal of a cov ops is to help you grief mission runners.


And all your ideas/exploits are not the way you could have kept using that cov ops pilot, but just continue thinking of new ways.

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First off its lol.

Second the goal of a covert ops to remain covert (in case your as stupid as you seem, that means it has to stay cloaked).

As for your "sekret wayz, lulz" I couldnt care less. Have a nice life.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 28/03/2009 04:06:06

1. The purpose of my war decs in empire is the same as pirating in small groups in low sec or pirating in large fleets in 0.0 alliances. Fun, profit and PvP. I like solo pvp, I like hunting specific targets and its not really viable in low sec or 0.0 solo. Clearer local and more pirates / pvp'rs means much more aware targets = much fewer kills.


2. Doing so means I gain a much bigger element of suprise. However even so its still extremely hard with the 'NEW' to tackle or track down an aware target.

3. Without the element of suprise the new targets are not 'equipped' they are given a free pass to avoid combat. Being able to warp to a station for an instant dock before I even get to uncloak is not equipped. Its very bad game mechanics. They should be relying on their alliance mates if they're in an alliance to defend against a single weak player such as myself, not relying on a chat window and its poor functionality.

4. Yesterday I attacked a battleship and 2 battlecruisers in my solo battlecruiser, potentially full of consequences, luckily they panicked and I got a kill and escaped.

AS FOR ALL THE PEOPLE WITH THE NO RISK EASY KILL FAIL SAUCE POOR PVP FIT CRAP:

I am not the best pvp'r, I'm not the worst, not the best fitter of ships, not the worst. Prior to UCAM war and Privateers I had a 200 kill to 0 loss war tally, check my killboard. During UCAM I started to get ****ed off, on one occassion I suicide engaged a Raven and 2 interceptors in my Aruzu, another occasion the same cruise raven in a rax, I had 8 v me fights and engaged HACS at close range with 425mm's. I engaged the orca and hulk trap knowing they were gonna beat me in my rax and then had them pod me back to base.

Most of you dont know what your talking about. A couple do but dont wanna admit the truth and a few do and admit it. Personally I dont care either way. I'll simply keep doing what I do till Infinity or another game that provides soloers with a better experience comes out. Till then... O/

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Originally by: Shuddayomoufa

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Edited by: Shuddayomoufa on 31/03/2009 14:10:52
So, lets say that CCP give in and changes wardecs to allow the element of suprise. Here is what would happen.

Carebears corps would be wardeced all over hisec, no problem there
They would cry foul over the slaughter. No biggie, learn to PvP
Many would quit--good riddance.
The lack of easy minerals would cause prices to go up, no problem
The carebears that did not quit learn to pvp, quickly learning what skills to learn, what items to fit, what tactics to use.
Eventually, an equilibrium will be establisted, and then you will be crying that pvp is too hard.
You would have mega corps with huge mining fleets and defense fleets backing them up in hisec all of the time. Small targets would be few and far between, kinda like what you are complaining about now.
Your wardec idea would work for the short term. It would be exciting to come in and blow away a whole corp or two, but players would adapt quickly and it would only be what you want for awhile.

Eve is an evolving game.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Originally by: Rathelm

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My understanding of the war dec is it's used to take chunks of 0.0 space not to harass a mining operation of some small corporation. The fact that people want to use it for other things is fine, but I'm sure CCP didn't design it for a griefing mechanism. The fact that you claim there are no civilians is very closed minded. We're not an army.

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0.0 doesnt require war declarations, war declarations are designed to prevent concord and gate guns attacking people in high sec systems and gate guns only in low sec. They also protect against security status loss in both high and low sec. War declarations also allow podding whereas other forms of high sec combat (FW and can flagging do not).

Since the creation of a corporation or alliance is a necessary step to become war declared, the creation of that corp or alliance willingly is an acceptance of being war declared.

If a player wishes they can create a psuedo corporation in which secure channels are set up to provide for corp chat but npc corps are still used to provide immunity from pvp wars.

War decs were set up to provide corporation warfare (including grief play).

Infinity Ziona

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Originally by: Rathelm

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No I get it, it's so a corp can't hide in empire space to be safe from a struggle in null space, and as you said to preserve standing.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Rathelm

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No I get it, it's so a corp can't hide in empire space to be safe from a struggle in null space, and as you said to preserve standing.

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Wardecs have nothing to do with 0.0. They may be used due to a 0.0 war, but they may just as easily be used because of falcon.

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Originally by: Nicholas Barker

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make wars cheaper, make changing corps harder. Force carebears to have to team up with pvpers to defend themselves.

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Originally by: Dzil

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Originally by: Nicholas Barker

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make wars cheaper, make changing corps harder. Force carebears to have to team up with pvpers to defend themselves.

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There should be a flip side to this. I think Corps should have to have an empire side POS in order to declare war. Seems kinda unfair that you can wardec someone to take down their POSs, but remain relatively targetless on your own side.

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Originally by: 10k1e

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Edited by: 10k1e on 31/03/2009 13:07:45
just curious, why the alt is wasted ?
i hope you dint jump the main after it.
after all there are plenty ninja salvagers out there who scan runners.

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Originally by: Neth'Rae

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Military experts are calling this a troll.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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You are no longer a war target. You are of no interest to me. Thank you.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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His post is catagorically incorrect.

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Originally by: Rathelm

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I think CCP was smart enough to realize that if they don't provide a safe means to fight in high sec space than people will exploit high sec space in order to have an edge in null sec space.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Rathelm

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I think CCP was smart enough to realize that if they don't provide a safe means to fight in high sec space than people will exploit high sec space in order to have an edge in null sec space.

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I declare troll!

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Originally by: Rathelm

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Just as someone who writes software I know why I would have the war dec, and it wouldn't be so the original poster can hold corps for ransom. I would add it to prevent game mechanic abuse from the null sec alliances utilizing high sec as a safety region to protect their own logistics.

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Originally by: Rathelm

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Awesome my ideas are wrong, but somehow your opinions are right. What a tool.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Rathelm

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Awesome my ideas are wrong, but somehow your opinions are right. What a tool.

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I don't have an opinion on what the wardec system is meant to do, I have knowledge. That's that thing you get when, instead of just deciding how things work, you observe what is going on around you and learn.

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Originally by: Rathelm

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After all your play time you haven't formulated opinions on how things work? Seriously? Fair enough, but how something is being used and what it was intended to be used for are usually two different things. With the way people have been whining in this thread about how CCP has catered to the "carebears" I think it's safe to say the mechanics of the war dec are not intended to be used to attack carebear corporations. In the real world we call that thinking and formulating hypothesis. It's something scientists do you shouldn't be so afraid to think on your own instead of going, "well people use it this way this most be it's point."

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Rathelm

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After all your play time you haven't formulated opinions on how things work? Seriously? Fair enough, but how something is being used and what it was intended to be used for are usually two different things. With the way people have been whining in this thread about how CCP has catered to the "carebears" I think it's safe to say the mechanics of the war dec are not intended to be used to attack carebear corporations. In the real world we call that thinking and formulating hypothesis. It's something scientists do you shouldn't be so afraid to think on your own instead of going, "well people use it this way this most be it's point."

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Oh, I have opinions. But I can separate how I think things should work from how they do work. You appear to be stuck at the more basic level of how you think things do work, which is some perverse combination of the two.

The complaints in this thread are centered around a particular playstyle, however that playstyle is not the only applicable use of wardecs against carebear corps, nor is the issue at the heart of the topic relevant only in the context of wardecs against carebear corps. So, if you are going to try to infer CCP's stance on the game from these complaints, at least try to understand what the issue is.

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Originally by: Rathelm

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No you're absolutely right. The point of this thread has absolutely nothing to do with war decs or it's intended uses. I understand how war decs work. I'm not really stuck on how I think they work or how I think they should work. I'm saying that it's unlikely that CCP's intention is for people to use the war dec the way the original poster is using it. If they're intetion was this quasi-complete lawlessness that you seem to agree with there wouldn't even be high sec space with invincible cops to begin with. Anway we've had about a 10 to 20 post tangent that I've enjoyed from a discussion perspective. :) The point of this thread is it's too easy to avoid combat, and some how a 12 page thread popped up about the morality of the topic. Personally I agree with the ease of escape because the alternative is worse.

Cheers

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Rathelm

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No you're absolutely right. The point of this thread has absolutely nothing to do with war decs or it's intended uses. I understand how war decs work. I'm not really stuck on how I think they work or how I think they should work. I'm saying that it's unlikely that CCP's intention is for people to use the war dec the way the original poster is using it. If they're intetion was this quasi-complete lawlessness that you seem to agree with there wouldn't even be high sec space with invincible cops to begin with. Anway we've had about a 10 to 20 post tangent that I've enjoyed from a discussion perspective. :) The point of this thread is it's too easy to avoid combat, and some how a 12 page thread popped up about the morality of the topic. Personally I agree with the ease of escape because the alternative is worse.

Cheers

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Once upon a time there wasn't high-sec or cops
But yes, tangent over.

Ah, I don't like the ease of escape, but as some of us discussed earlier, due to the way EVE is built it's all or nothing, so there's really nothing to be done I think, as you say the alternative is, well, not what CCP are looking for anymore. Still, the 12 pages of moral outcry have been quite amusing, and interspersed with some interesting discussion it makes for a good thread.

o/

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Originally by: Rathelm

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It's like jumping in a jet fighter going Mach 3 to reach your target to jump out and run at them on foot to beat them with a club.

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Originally by: Jonas Cooke

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Lulz, you can't define or restrict a word that doesn't exist. Also, i think a five minute-old noob could tell you a covert-ops ship is ment to be covert...

Do you know how to say Obvious?

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Originally by: 10k1e

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Edited by: 10k1e on 31/03/2009 13:07:45
just curious, why the alt is wasted ?
i hope you dint jump the main after it.
after all there are plenty ninja salvagers out there who scan runners.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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2. Location agents - Location delay - Re-location delay - NOT goddamned necessary. What raging carebear dev decided it was TOO DANGEROUS (Oh Noes! they know where I yam!) to allow someone to pinpoint a players location instantly with a L4 agent? And why did he decide to make the player wait up to 30 minutes for the next location? It costs 200kish for a location, if I wanna spend 2 million to locate someone 10 times why the fek cant I?

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