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dont nerf the falcon, buff the other recons

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Advice Dog	Posted - 2009.03.24 23:16:00 - [1] At one point or another all of the recons have been FOTM. nos and amarr before the nos nerf, damps and gal before the damp nerf, webs and minnie before the speed/web nerf and ofc ECM as cal (which hasnt changed yet obv). Notice a pattern, ecm is a powerfull weapon of war and it should stay so in Eve. The continuing assault on ecm and ecm boats will be to the detriment of the playerbase
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.03.24 23:18:00 - [2] Do you really want a Pilgrim that can neut you from 200km or an Arazu putting a point on you from the same? Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
SkyLordUK Amarr Baptism oF Fire Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.03.24 23:23:00 - [3] this ECM nerf is long over due falcons are atm the end game for fleets as once they start jamming you from 200+km they is next to nothing ya can do about it except die to his mates now though after the patch the falcon pilot has to VERY carefully choose his jam targets to make sure he isnt instawtfbbqpwnd by the opposite fleet sitting 70km off him Sky. ---------------------------------------------- Jumping Gates is like a box of sweets You just dont know were the sour one is
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.24 23:24:00 - [4] Originally by: SkyLordUK though after the patch the falcon pilot has to get in his zealot and snipe with the rest of us
SkyLordUK Amarr Baptism oF Fire Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.03.24 23:30:00 - [5] Edited by: SkyLordUK on 24/03/2009 23:31:58 Edited by: SkyLordUK on 24/03/2009 23:31:48 Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: SkyLordUK though after the patch the falcon pilot has to get in his zealot and snipe with the rest of us what she sed too Edit: come to think of it i can do both Sky. ---------------------------------------------- Jumping Gates is like a box of sweets You just dont know were the sour one is

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2009.03.25 01:57:00 - [6] Moved to Ships & Modules. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Email

Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.25 02:01:00 - [7] ECM in Eve is a pile of tosh. I hate it and wish it had never been introduced. In every other game I play the crowd control mechanisms have some shortcomings. Either you become immune to them after being hit by them or the crowd contol effect is cancelled by damage. This means that the victims of a crowd control effect do not sit there helpless, picking fluff from their belly buttons while they get destroyed. But if you get a good Falcon pilot he can jam you from over 100km and his target has no effective response to this and can only hope that his gang mates can win without him. This is a frustrating position to be in and one that I really hope the developers do something about it.
Liang Nuren No Salvation Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.03.25 02:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Banana Torres ECM in Eve is a pile of tosh. I hate it and wish it had never been introduced. In every other game I play the crowd control mechanisms have some shortcomings. Either you become immune to them after being hit by them or the crowd contol effect is cancelled by damage. This means that the victims of a crowd control effect do not sit there helpless, picking fluff from their belly buttons while they get destroyed. But if you get a good Falcon pilot he can jam you from over 100km and his target has no effective response to this and can only hope that his gang mates can win without him. This is a frustrating position to be in and one that I really hope the developers do something about it. TBH you're effectively just asking for a different ECM mechanic - probably more akin to damps or TD's. I'm +1 to this. But for now.... this is what we have, and CCP doesn't seem terribly interested in changing it. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.25 02:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Banana Torres ECM in Eve is a pile of tosh. I hate it and wish it had never been introduced. In every other game I play the crowd control mechanisms have some shortcomings. Either you become immune to them after being hit by them or the crowd contol effect is cancelled by damage. This means that the victims of a crowd control effect do not sit there helpless, picking fluff from their belly buttons while they get destroyed. But if you get a good Falcon pilot he can jam you from over 100km and his target has no effective response to this and can only hope that his gang mates can win without him. This is a frustrating position to be in and one that I really hope the developers do something about it. This is true. Almost every other MMO has serious, clearly visible, and balanced drawbacks to CC. But I guess EVE is special. What I like even more is that the Scorp is becoming a short range "brawler", when it clearly can't tank with ECM in the mids. But I guess it should use the lows for an armor tank, since SDAs might get changed and "the low slots could be used for tanking for example". Oh the hilarity.
Solid Prefekt Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.25 02:55:00 - [10] Edited by: Solid Prefekt on 25/03/2009 02:55:21 I am soooo going to enjoy all the tears. Please keeps the posts/topics coming.
Grohalmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.03.25 03:53:00 - [11] The proposed changes in the game development forum are obviously a nerf to falcon pilots. However, what they really are is a nerf to falcon alts. It is way too easy right now, because of the range of falcons, to alt tab away from your falcon alt while he perma jams a whole gang and if they start to get close to him you have plenty of time to alt tab back and get him out. With the new changes you are gonna have to choose whether to maintain that comfortable alt-tab range but suffer a ROF penalty, or stick your alt in the fight which would be real tough for an alt tabber to do. I like the change because it will actually force people to fly the ship. Sure the Caldari are gonna whine and whine, but in the end it might just make flying it more fun. (CREDIT RONAN JACQUES)
MidnightMartyr Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.03.25 04:08:00 - [12] Can we please just get an official falcon whine thread so we don't see 20 falcon whine threads every day?
GTC seller72	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Grohalmatar It is way too easy right now, because of the range of falcons, to alt tab away from your falcon alt while he perma jams a whole gang and if they start to get close to him you have plenty of time to alt tab back and get him out. Seems to me that the easy thing to do is exhagerate the jamming abilities of the falcon.... Originally by: Grohalmatar With the new changes you are gonna have to choose whether to maintain that comfortable alt-tab range but suffer a ROF penalty, or stick your alt in the fight which would be real tough for an alt tabber to do. Actually the new changes are going to make the falcon as useless in med sized gang combat as the other recon ships. The rook however may still have possabilities using its longer range... Although why give the ranged ecm ship the drone bay and not the close range one????...
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:26:00 - [14] Originally by: Advice Dog At one point or another all of the recons have been FOTM. nos and amarr before the nos nerf, damps and gal before the damp nerf, webs and minnie before the speed/web nerf and ofc ECM as cal (which hasnt changed yet obv). Notice a pattern, ecm is a powerfull weapon of war and it should stay so in Eve. The continuing assault on ecm and ecm boats will be to the detriment of the playerbase Sure. Give us 200km damps, webs and tracking disruptors. Please.
GTC seller72	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Advice Dog At one point or another all of the recons have been FOTM. nos and amarr before the nos nerf, damps and gal before the damp nerf, webs and minnie before the speed/web nerf and ofc ECM as cal (which hasnt changed yet obv). Notice a pattern, ecm is a powerfull weapon of war and it should stay so in Eve. The continuing assault on ecm and ecm boats will be to the detriment of the playerbase Sure. Give us 200km damps, webs and tracking disruptors. Please. Give us 100% gaurenteed multi racial jammers and its a deal...
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:57:00 - [16] Its not like this is the end of ecm... Its just not -that- uber anymore. It will only be quite uber. Still better then all the other recons, so yeah go through with the nerf AND buff some of the other recons. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
Advice Dog	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Advice Dog At one point or another all of the recons have been FOTM. nos and amarr before the nos nerf, damps and gal before the damp nerf, webs and minnie before the speed/web nerf and ofc ECM as cal (which hasnt changed yet obv). Notice a pattern, ecm is a powerfull weapon of war and it should stay so in Eve. The continuing assault on ecm and ecm boats will be to the detriment of the playerbase Sure. Give us 200km damps, webs and tracking disruptors. Please. OK... thats the point you cretin, otherwise the game is simply warp in ctrl+click F1 warp out or die. ta daaaaaaa! pimp damps back to their awesomeness, get rid of the terribad NOS cap balance effect and sort TP's out to radiclly increase damage or maybe bleed over to attack systems a la overcharge. Add a few more ewar skills in to get up to the full effectiveness of the module so we havent all wasted our time training for T2 guns. Eve fixed, put the kettle on and skin up.
Polenve Caldari Death's Phalanx	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:00:00 - [18] Edited by: Polenve on 25/03/2009 10:00:59 Falcons are like hot women. Don't cry because you don't have one, just go get your own. You can't nerf the falcon. Caldari ships are in the middle of the pack on just about everything, speed, tanking, damage... This makes them the worst PVP race, especially since missiles got nerfed. ECM is the one thing that make Caldari worth training in. nerfing falcons, would make Caldari extinct in the PVP world. For all those who cry about falcons, fit an ECCM, or learn some fleet tactics to counter them.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:07:00 - [19] Caldari has lots of good ships, even if they had only craptastic ships as you say, it doesn't justify one ship being totally game breaking and shaping how everyone in eve fights. I can't understand how ppl think its ok that everyone has to change their tactics, fleet setups, fits, because of ONE ship. Ok if more ships had this impact. But we are talking about one ship that changes how everyone plays this game. It doesn't matter if its all it can do, or if all other ships of that race sucks, or if its pink and has flowers painted on it. One ship shouldn't have that affect over the game play. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:23:00 - [20] Originally by: MidnightMartyr Can we please just get an official falcon whine thread so we don't see 20 falcon whine threads every day? We've been seeing 20 falcon whines a day since ever. Why object now?
TimMc Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: MidnightMartyr Can we please just get an official falcon whine thread so we don't see 20 falcon whine threads every day? We've been seeing 20 falcon whines a day since ever. Why object now? Previously it was annoying 20 anti-falcon whines a day... now its 20 anti-nerf whines. Keep the tears coming.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.03.25 11:03:00 - [22] Welcome to the loss page of the killboard Falcons, hope you enjoy your stay. All the other Recons have already been balanced, only the ECM boats were missing. Post-QR and the speed changes the extreme ranges ECM operates at has no viable counters except for 3-4 ECCM modules and/or 100% sniper fitted BS (ie. no tank). Recon piloting (Gallente/Matar/Amarr) has always been a specialist occupation (player skill - not SP), why on Earth should Caldari keep their free pass?
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.03.25 11:27:00 - [23] hummm...? when did the curse get nerfed..? - putting the gist back into logistics
Childstar	Posted - 2009.03.25 11:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Roemy Schneider hummm...? when did the curse get nerfed..? I think they are spinning the NOS nerf as the curse nerf...
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.25 13:54:00 - [25] Originally by: TimMc Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: MidnightMartyr Can we please just get an official falcon whine thread so we don't see 20 falcon whine threads every day? We've been seeing 20 falcon whines a day since ever. Why object now? Previously it was annoying 20 anti-falcon whines a day... now its 20 anti-nerf whines. Keep the tears coming. Tears?
Azirapheal Amarr Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.25 14:56:00 - [26] Edited by: Azirapheal on 25/03/2009 14:58:26 Originally by: Grohalmatar The proposed changes in the game development forum are obviously a nerf to falcon pilots. However, what they really are is a nerf to falcon alts. i like this statement so much its getting sigged. i dont mind dedicated pilots, that have chosen to sacrifice their offensive abilities to aid their fellow fleeties. logistics pilots o7 i salute thee, command ship pilots o7 thanks for the bonuses. jamming ecm has become the "godmode" of the game. no other ecm completely shuts the enemy down. damps fail if your too close, turret destabilisers are useless at range and target painters only make you easier to hit, they dont remove your ability to do anything but sit there the number of times ive been engaging a target and even in close fights it comes up "jammed" lo and behold, the falcon ALT fking hate them Originally by: Grohalmatar The proposed changes in the game development forum are obviously a nerf to falcon pilots. However, what they really are is a nerf to falcon alts.
joshmorris	Posted - 2009.03.25 16:59:00 - [27] Edited by: joshmorris on 25/03/2009 17:00:06 Originally by: Advice Dog At one point or another all of the recons have been FOTM. nos and amarr before the nos nerf, damps and gal before the damp nerf, webs and minnie before the speed/web nerf and ofc ECM as cal (which hasnt changed yet obv). Notice a pattern, ecm is a powerfull weapon of war and it should stay so in Eve. The continuing assault on ecm and ecm boats will be to the detriment of the playerbase Actually nos was used on basically every ship... so were damps ... and speed nerf hit everybody ....... and ecm used to be very powerfull but got nerfed ages ago , Nano multispec ecm nos domi's any1 ? So just using recons as an example doesnt help the other ships it effects.
joshmorris	Posted - 2009.03.25 16:59:00 - [28] Edited by: joshmorris on 25/03/2009 16:59:53 double.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Azirapheal jamming ecm has become the "godmode" of the game. Lol. Quote: the number of times ive been engaging a target and even in close fights it comes up "jammed" lo and behold, the falcon ALT fking hate them So you havent realised nothing will change in this type of fight? Who cares about "solo" pvp anymore. What you are really ****ed at is the ability to run multiple accounts. And yea this is my sig.
Azirapheal Amarr Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Azirapheal jamming ecm has become the "godmode" of the game. Lol. Quote: the number of times ive been engaging a target and even in close fights it comes up "jammed" lo and behold, the falcon ALT fking hate them So you havent realised nothing will change in this type of fight? Who cares about "solo" pvp anymore. What you are really **ed at is the ability to run multiple accounts. partially, but at least now the falcon alt will have to be in range of my mate warping in instead of 200km away making me pick my belly button out of boredom as they chew through 30kEHP Originally by:** Grohalmatar The proposed changes in the game development forum are obviously a nerf to falcon pilots. However, what they really are is a nerf to falcon alts.
VoiceInTheDesert Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:45:00 - [31] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Azirapheal jamming ecm has become the "godmode" of the game. Lol. Quote: the number of times ive been engaging a target and even in close fights it comes up "jammed" lo and behold, the falcon ALT fking hate them So you havent realised nothing will change in this type of fight? Who cares about "solo" pvp anymore. What you are really ****ed at is the ability to run multiple accounts. It will change solo pvp in lowsec. No longer can you solo alt-tab your falcon at gates/stations to get the upper hand on 2-3 enemy ships. To me, that was the only area Falcons were truly OP since Sniper fits are so difficult to use in lowsec (no tank = dead to gate guns if not your enemies in about 10 seconds). I don't see the big deal with these changes. Falcons are being forced into range, that's all. They will still be effective, they just won't survive as many fights...welcome to the world of every other recon.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.03.25 18:00:00 - [32] Originally by: GTC seller72 Originally by: Alex Harumichi Sure. Give us 200km damps, webs and tracking disruptors. Please. Give us 100% gaurenteed multi racial jammers and its a deal... Damps only reduce lock range of a ship to autocannon/blaster range. Thus they're useless against anything but long range ships. ECM effectively reduces lock range to zero while resetting your lock timer. A jam hit means 20s + lock time before the ECM victim can do anything again. Which can vary from 1s or less to 20. So you effectively get a 20-40 second reprieve per jam. And it breaks existing locks. Damps don't break existing locks like ECM does either. Once they have a lock your targeting res damp accomplishes absolutely nothing. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Caldose	Posted - 2009.03.25 18:15:00 - [33] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Once they have a lock your targeting res damp accomplishes absolutely nothing. lol, oh so it's only after they have a lock that stat becomes useless
NullRazor Minmatar GEOSALVAGE FOUNDRIES	Posted - 2009.03.25 18:25:00 - [34] I think if these changes are going into effect, then the least they could do is give all Recons the ability to use the cov ops cloak again... along with the Stealth(not) Bomber.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2009.03.25 18:32:00 - [35] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Damps only reduce lock range of a ship to autocannon/blaster range. Thus they're useless against anything but long range ships. No, they are great unless you are daft enough to use them and then fly into a range the ship can lock you. You can "perma damp" a ships lock range or even "perma TD" its gun range and in some cases "perma web" a ship to a range they are utterly ineffective against you. Cos they cannot lock you if you are using damps and keep your range, or hit you at your range due to the TD or again get close enough to hit you if they are webbed, while you can sit back in any of the recons who use those systems and chew through them. These are gaurenteed effects and tactics that cannot ever fail in the ships that use thems optimals if those ships are used correctly, they are true "perma" effects not the exhagerations of ppl who got ganked by a gang with a falcon in it.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:18:00 - [36] Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 25/03/2009 18:37:16 Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Damps only reduce lock range of a ship to autocannon/blaster range. Thus they're useless against anything but long range ships. No, they are great unless you are daft enough to use them and then fly into a range the ship can lock you. You can "perma damp" a ships lock range or even "perma TD" its gun range and in some cases "perma web" a ship to a range they are utterly ineffective against you. Cos they cannot lock you if you are using damps and keep your range, or hit you at your range due to the TD or again get close enough to hit you if they are webbed, while you can sit back in any of the recons who use those systems and chew through them. These are gaurenteed effects and tactics that cannot ever fail in the ships that use thems optimals if those ships are used correctly, they are true "perma" effects not the exhagerations of ppl who got ganked by a gang with a falcon in it. Now with the falcons range nerf along with its str nerf because of the SDA nerf they are going to fail a LOT of jams and on even more ships than they do now as they can only actually "perma" jam ships with lower sig str than they have jam str, and those are very few now let alone after the SDA gimp. Learn to read. Base ecm strength is gonna get higher to compensate for SDA change. So falcon will probably have higher jamming strength. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
Trathen Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:20:00 - [37] Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert They will still be effective, they just won't survive as many fights...welcome to the world of every other ship. fixed _
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:34:00 - [38] Edited by: maralt on 25/03/2009 19:34:13 Originally by: General Coochie Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 25/03/2009 18:37:16 Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Damps only reduce lock range of a ship to autocannon/blaster range. Thus they're useless against anything but long range ships. No, they are great unless you are daft enough to use them and then fly into a range the ship can lock you. You can "perma damp" a ships lock range or even "perma TD" its gun range and in some cases "perma web" a ship to a range they are utterly ineffective against you. Cos they cannot lock you if you are using damps and keep your range, or hit you at your range due to the TD or again get close enough to hit you if they are webbed, while you can sit back in any of the recons who use those systems and chew through them. These are gaurenteed effects and tactics that cannot ever fail in the ships that use thems optimals if those ships are used correctly, they are true "perma" effects not the exhagerations of ppl who got ganked by a gang with a falcon in it. Now with the falcons range nerf along with its str nerf because of the SDA nerf they are going to fail a LOT of jams and on even more ships than they do now as they can only actually "perma" jam ships with lower sig str than they have jam str, and those are very few now let alone after the SDA gimp. Learn to read. Base ecm strength is gonna get higher to compensate for SDA change. So falcon will probably have higher jamming strength. I saw that...... Quote: altering either the base strength of the jammers or the ECM strength bonus of the ships so they become less required in every setup and the low slots could be used for tanking for example. But looking at the rest of the post they chose the ships as the falcon got a 25% boost. Anyway it does not change the facts in my post or the fact that ECM would still br chance based compared to the other relyable system effects. Is picking out unimportant details all you got from that post?...learn not to troll unimportant details..
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:49:00 - [39] Chance based or not it will mitigate more dps from the hostile gang then any other recon which is all that matters. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2009.03.25 20:04:00 - [40] Originally by: General Coochie Chance based or not it will mitigate more dps from the hostile gang then any other recon which is all that matters. It will be thrown on the scrap heap just like the other recons have been... when ppl consider ships for gang vs gang fighting they do not think recon unless its the falcon and thats because of its range and with that gone so is it.

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