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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |

Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:11:00 -
[271] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:I'm not sure about who owns the content of an evemail... it can get shady.
What if a copyrighted material gets uu-encoded and sent through alliance mail? Read the 2 month old 14 page thread and you will see that was already brought up. No need to repeat the cycles. Show me in the bear... I mean, the thread, where uu-encode was mentioned. Is your left mouse button broken?
link uu-encode or didn't happened.
|

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
529
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:17:00 -
[272] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:I'm not sure about who owns the content of an evemail... it can get shady.
What if a copyrighted material gets uu-encoded and sent through alliance mail? Read the 2 month old 14 page thread and you will see that was already brought up. No need to repeat the cycles. Show me in the bear... I mean, the thread, where uu-encode was mentioned. Is your left mouse button broken? link uu-encode or didn't happened.
You are putting far too much effort into all that typing when it only takes a couple of muscles to click on page 2 or 3 and read that if you are sending something, anything, private through a unsecured email system then you deserve what comes to you. |

Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:29:00 -
[273] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
You are putting far too much effort into all that typing when it only takes a couple of muscles to click on page 2 or 3 and read that if you are sending something, anything, private through a unsecured email system then you deserve what comes to you.
Sir... again.. there's no mention of uu-encode in neither page 2 or page 3. However, my point is not about the sender "deserving" to be skunked. It's about planting copyrighted material on alliance email on purpose, hoping it will get skunked, then let RIAA/MPAA/whatever take the skunk down.
Of course, the planter could get in trouble as well... consider it a suicide gank.
PS: I'm sure alt.* newsgroups have something better than uuencode by now... I haven't been there in ages.
|

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
529
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:40:00 -
[274] - Quote
sigh...whatever. You are talking about the same subject in a different dress. But hey, if you wanna flash your ass at the general public and then blame them for taking pictures then be my guest.
Also, I like your idea of burning an entire forest to remove one diseased tree. |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2158
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:49:00 -
[275] - Quote
If you put it in an email you are subject to inteception by any number of means. Confidential documents should never be sent via email unless it is only going through a secured, on site server (and even then there are no promises).
Sending confidential information via a messaging service THAT IS PART OF A PUBLIC ONLINE GAME is not considered a secure or private method by anyone's definition. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
529
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:51:00 -
[276] - Quote
Thank you. |

Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
217
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 17:01:00 -
[277] - Quote
If you wish to be pedantic about this then in virtually all of the English speaking world * then as soon as you send a letter/send an email/make a post then the copyright for that letter/email/post now resides with the recipient.
tl;dr - send a private communication to a person/entity then the copyright of that communication belongs to them.
*mentioned because of copyright laws, which are broadly consistent for text |

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1630
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 17:24:00 -
[278] - Quote
Calling all internet lawyers. |

InternetSpaceship
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
136
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 01:12:00 -
[279] - Quote
Sometimes I forget that this game is taken so seriously by others, that they are perfectly willing to try to involved it with international law. Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.
If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.-á If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you. |

Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
164
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 02:14:00 -
[280] - Quote
InternetSpaceship wrote:Sometimes I forget that this game is taken so seriously by others, that they are perfectly willing to try to involved it with international law.
That kind of reminds me of the one that can not be mentioned... yeah it could get nasty in an international way.
|

Irya Boone
Escadron leader La League des mondes libres
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 02:33:00 -
[281] - Quote
Internet Lawyers are best lawyers of the universe(s) ... really |

Equus
Royal Order of Security Specialists Late Night Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 03:03:00 -
[282] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:You know, the whole problem is not about game related mails made public but personal information about stuff like health. The API does not filter those out. A spy would never copy/paste personal information to a public website as it holds no "ingame value" to be used.
Let me ask this: If I would post links to illegal content, like movies, and eveskunk automatic make them public. Who would be wrong? Eveskunk for making links to illegal content public? CCP for helping eveskunk retreiving the mails? The person sharing the API? Or the person sending a personal mail to his/her friends?
I have not read all of this thread, I had to stop here, and honestly, just stop, you are wrong, completely wrong. I shall now give you a real example, hmmm, I wonder if there is another large company or two out there that allow users to hand out verification codes so that those sites can garner information... I don't know, maybe a little site called Facebook...
You see, when you link your Facebook account to a webpage, or an app, or anything of the third party can do whatever they want with your information, that is why Facebook warns you and says something along the lines of: This app/page waill have access to: your contacts, your pictures, yadda, yadda. Now, if you don't read said sites privacy policy, they can pretty much do whatever they like with their scraped information. You have no legal recourse, you agreed to make it available, same thing here, YOU make your mails available through your api not CCP. If you honestly think you have legel precident sue a company like Facebook, they have much deeper pockets... and yes Facebook has had it's wrist slapped for privacy, but that usually stemmed from not making privacy options available and/or readily visible. You cannot sue Facebook because you gave out personal information. You signed away your privacy in the EULA.
Now, for the dumbest argument, "Someone can copy and paste my eve mail!!!!", seriously? So shall we sue google too? An ex copy and pasted an email I sent to somewhere else, Google facilitated her, I am sueing!!!!
Seriously, please think a little, no argument you have made holds any water, if you eve mail, email, snail mail, pass me a note, whatever, if you do not have it from me explicitly and in writing that I will maintain any privacy, you will pretty much be S.O.L. The absolute most you can do is if it goes somewhere public you can ask for it to be taken down. Unless you are hacked and your private information is quite literally stolen, you have nothing.
Please, stop giving developers a bad name, I would like to think the majority of us can use our heads.
I hope I covered everything clear enough, if not I will be happy to try and clarify. |

MadMuppet
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
494
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 03:18:00 -
[283] - Quote
http://enigmaco.de/enigma/enigma.swf
If it is important, it should be encoded and only those you trust should have the wire positions, wheel numbers and order, and three letter start codes. They should change daily or at least weekly. For special direct communications a dedicated few should have a second code book. Also false messages should be coded and know for speed to disrupt operations.
TLDR: Use an Enigma Machine, Copy paste makes this all happen very fast. If I tried to make a type of coffee that made all of you happy, and you rated it, the group score for it would be about 60 out of 100. Break into 3 or 4 coffee clusters, and made coffee just for each cluster, the scores would go from 60 to 78. The difference between coffee at 60 and coffee at 78 is a difference between coffee that makes you wince or makes you happy. |

Y'nit Gidrine
Gold Horizons Industrial
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 03:48:00 -
[284] - Quote
You know, if only there were some sort of encryption scheme which was pretty good at protecting your privacy, then we wouldn't be having this problem. |

Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
370
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 04:15:00 -
[285] - Quote
I am a space lawyer. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |

Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
166
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 04:32:00 -
[286] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:http://enigmaco.de/enigma/enigma.swf
If it is important, it should be encoded and only those you trust should have the wire positions, wheel numbers and order, and three letter start codes. They should change daily or at least weekly. For special direct communications a dedicated few should have a second code book. Also false messages should be coded and know for speed to disrupt operations.
TLDR: Use an Enigma Machine, Copy paste makes this all happen very fast.
Hum... this is interesting. The decoding mechanism could be expanded to have multiple decryption strings. Each decryption string could have hard-coded decryption flaws (like capitalize every 40th letter). Different decryption strings could be given to different corps/members. And when the message comes out on skunk, you can search for which flaw it had, thus determining the decryption key used, thus finding out the corp/member that leaked it.
|

Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp
120
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 05:04:00 -
[287] - Quote
Spymaster Bates wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it. Hi, I'd like to address something important here. The API's here aren't farmed or stolen, they are from active agents or API's given consentually. If you are mad about your alliance being infiltrated then have better recruitment standards.
but how will the Spies infiltrate if people were not lazy? |

The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:13:00 -
[288] - Quote
Heres an idea, don't use alliance mail for sensitive information you don't want spies to know. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1174
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:52:00 -
[289] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:Heres an idea, don't use alliance mail for sensitive information you don't want spies to know. Heck, most nullsec groups use out-of-game comms.
Spies still get in of course. If a line member is going to know something, so will a spy. *shrug*
The best spies record your comms and then leak it after every welp, like clockwork. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Atomic Option
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:01:00 -
[290] - Quote
No.
The APIs are provided voluntarily so there's no theft or wiretapping or unauthorized access.
The corp/alliance mails do not have an expectation of privacy.
Even 1 to 1 EVEMails do not have a legal expectation of privacy because CCP reserves the right to read them in their ToS or EULA o somewhere I'm too lazy to go look up.
People bring this **** up every once in a while, but it's all bullshit. |

dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:05:00 -
[291] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote: ... but this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact ...
Many is relative term, but in most countries public disclosure of emails is legal, then you are the receiving or sending party. In doing so you may be subject to various laws, e.g. breaking non disclosure agreements, publishing trade secrets, violating client confidentiality, etc.
Even if you live in a country where it's illegal, it can never be CCP who breaks the law. The person responsible for posting the email content, is the person breaking the law. |

Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:16:00 -
[292] - Quote
just don't use CCP-provided means of communications (in-game mails/chats) but roll your own solution (forums + IRC/Jabber).
Make your members sign a NDA and submit proof of identity (there are services that will weed out the more obvious forgeries for you) before they get access.
(While you are sorting out all the legal stuff - trademark your alliance name/logo, incorporate the alliance and run your website/services from a corporate account to prevent hijacking by some disgruntled member and make any alliance members that might create content for you - websites, propaganda, ... - sign over copyright to the alliance or at least grant the alliance an exclusive & perpetual license to the content)
You should watertag sensitive forum posts (e.g. encode the userid of the person viewing the post by replacing characters with identically looking but different characters, Unicode is awesome) to identify leaks and keep permanent logs of who was logged into which service at which time.
problem solved.
spaceships are serious business. |

Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
873
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:34:00 -
[293] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it.
Looks to me like someone wants to be a spai and never have his mailbox ccompromise his position. Anyone want to recruit this man? Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |

Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:38:00 -
[294] - Quote
Also if you have an issue with eveskunk try to contact their webhost (or ISP if self-hosted) before looking for legal recourse or CCP intervention.
Copyright & privacy arguments have been convincing enough to hosts (which generally don't like trouble of any sort) to make them shut down unauthorized mirrors of alliance forums in the past.
Eventually the website will of course end up with some host which doesn't respond to your demands/threats but until then you might be able to cause considerable trouble/costs to eveskunk. Always go for the weakest link first. |

dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
35
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:53:00 -
[295] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Also if you have an issue with eveskunk try to contact their webhost/ISP before looking for legal recourse or CCP intervention.
Contacting their internet service provider, or their hosting service, can be compared to contacting Microsoft and asking them to immediately recall every version of lookout, because email accounts can get hacked and therefore are illegal and dangerous. Most office/email/imaging software can be used to commit criminal acts involving forgery, this does not mean you can hold the companies producing the software countable for any crimes committed be the users of the software.
You can only persecute the one responsible for committing the crime. |

Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 08:52:00 -
[296] - Quote
dexington wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:Also if you have an issue with eveskunk try to contact their webhost/ISP before looking for legal recourse or CCP intervention. Contacting their internet service provider, or their hosting service, can be compared to contacting Microsoft and asking them to immediately recall every version of lookout, because email accounts can get hacked and therefore are illegal and dangerous. Most office/email/imaging software can be used to commit criminal acts involving forgery, this does not mean you can hold the companies producing the software countable for any crimes committed be the users of the software. You can only persecute the one responsible for committing the crime. nope, if we are in "bad analogy"-land then I'd rather liken it to me contacting Microsoft asking them to lock your hotmail account because it is spreading malware or sending out spam.
Most hosting providers don't want you to do anything that might potentially be illegal using their services and cave in very quickly.
If you don't believe me that this works try http://files.pleaseignore.com/forumdumps/www.pandemic-legion.com/ |

dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
35
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 09:02:00 -
[297] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:If you don't believe me that this works try http://files.pleaseignore.com/forumdumps/www.pandemic-legion.com/Nobody is talking about persecuting or suing anyone - my suggestion is to write an angry letter (or better have an actual lawyer write the angry letter in your name) to the webhost/ISP before consider any real legal actions.
http://thepiratebay.se/legal/ |

Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 09:11:00 -
[298] - Quote
you could also have linked http://jdel.eu/pandemic/index.html
Vera Algaert wrote:Eventually the website will of course end up with some host which doesn't respond to your demands/threats but until then you might be able to cause considerable trouble/costs to eveskunk. Always go for the weakest link first. just because it doesn't work 100% of the time doesn't mean it's useless to try - as I pointed out above even if you use a lawyer it's a very cheap and low-effort option compared to the alternatives. It would be stupid not to try it. |

dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
35
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 09:32:00 -
[299] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Eventually the website will of course end up with some host which doesn't respond to your demands/threats but until then you might be able to cause considerable trouble/costs to eveskunk. Always go for the weakest link first. just because it doesn't work 100% of the time doesn't mean it's useless to try - as I pointed out above even if you use a lawyer it's a very cheap (typical price for a DMCA takedown request seems to be $200-300) and low-effort option compared to the alternatives. It would be stupid not to try it.[/quote]
a fool and his money are soon parted... |

dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
35
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 09:32:00 -
[300] - Quote
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