| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Zostera
Minmatar
Honour Bound
Sc0rched Earth
   |
Posted - 2009.03.28 11:25:00 -
[31]
I tentatively support this idea, however I agree with a need buff to scanning tools. So for the moment it does not get thumbs up.
One idea that may contribute is to tie this in with system scanners on a POS. The current system scanner is essentially redundant since in home systems there will be many ships in space, many of those idling in a pos. Perhaps changing the system scanner to show local in a system to the sov holders and their allies would help with this. Rational would be the scanner automatically scans and updates local with all the pilots in space.
This would retain the intel aspect for the home defence, who reasonably ought to have an advantage where is concerned.
However simply changing this would introduce a significant imbalance to the setriment of a hostile roam. Therefore buffing scanning tools would be required as well. Perhaps a "Transponder probe" could be introduced, the mechanic being that when deployed it searches for active pilots transponders in the system as a whole. This probe would not be a locator as combat probes currently are, but while deployed by a fleet member would allow visibility of local to a hostile fleet.
Two seperate mechanics that need to be balanced well. And ultimately allowing visibility of local to both. Where the benefit to PvP is concerned it removes local from systems without any Sov, unless the parties involved use a "Transponder probe".
Active scouting would be more essential, and probers more common in fleets.
Just a couple of ideas, and maybe not the best, but something to throw into the pot.
Zos
|
Maraleith
Gallente
Zephan Industries
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 11:51:00 -
[32]
A simple scenario to demonstrate why this should not be proceeded with.
You have a mining op going on in an ice belt with 10 people, an orca and a rorqual. You have scouts out and all is well. You think you are safe and that you have prepared well, but all of a sudden, 20 covert ops (force recons, black ops etc ) appear from nowhere and you start screaming as your well planned and executed little op gets torn to pieces.
Much puiblic ridicule is heaped on your shoulders by whoever.
Podded and annoyed at being bounced, you scream at the scouts, "where was my warning?" and they yell back, "we saw nothing."
Then it dawns on you. Logonski by one character; covert cyno and you were stuffed. And despite all your preparations, you really stood no chance what so ever.
Small problem perhaps anyone?
Until an instant scanning system is implemented that warns of hostiles in system AND does not drive people to distraction, proceed no further.
|
Jane Indy
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 13:18:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Jane Indy on 28/03/2009 13:18:16
I do support this for reasons allready stated in this thread 
If CCP improves and adds more scanning mechanics of course.
|
Zostera
Minmatar
Honour Bound
Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 13:18:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Maraleith
A simple scenario to demonstrate why this should not be proceeded with.
You have a mining op going on in an ice belt with 10 people, an orca and a rorqual. You have scouts out and all is well. You think you are safe and that you have prepared well, but all of a sudden, 20 covert ops (force recons, black ops etc ) appear from nowhere and you start screaming as your well planned and executed little op gets torn to pieces.
Much puiblic ridicule is heaped on your shoulders by whoever.
Podded and annoyed at being bounced, you scream at the scouts, "where was my warning?" and they yell back, "we saw nothing."
Then it dawns on you. Logonski by one character; covert cyno and you were stuffed. And despite all your preparations, you really stood no chance what so ever.
Small problem perhaps anyone?
Until an instant scanning system is implemented that warns of hostiles in system AND does not drive people to distraction, proceed no further.
Refer to my post above and it is possible to see how some changes could balance this out. Arguably it would be foolish to carry out mining ops in a system with no towers, with a tower and sov you would gain a warning from local as you currently do.
Zos
|
glitterbomb
tr0pa de elite
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 14:21:00 -
[35]
i agree with this, local needs to be changed. either to have it show blank unless someone has typed. or a 30 second delay at least.
|
Darknesss
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 14:23:00 -
[36]
yeah
|
glitterbomb
Caldari
tr0pa de elite
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 14:25:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Maraleith
A simple scenario to demonstrate why this should not be proceeded with.
You have a mining op going on in an ice belt with 10 people, an orca and a rorqual. You have scouts out and all is well. You think you are safe and that you have prepared well, but all of a sudden, 20 covert ops (force recons, black ops etc ) appear from nowhere and you start screaming as your well planned and executed little op gets torn to pieces.
Much puiblic ridicule is heaped on your shoulders by whoever.
Podded and annoyed at being bounced, you scream at the scouts, "where was my warning?" and they yell back, "we saw nothing."
Then it dawns on you. Logonski by one character; covert cyno and you were stuffed. And despite all your preparations, you really stood no chance what so ever.
Small problem perhaps anyone?
Until an instant scanning system is implemented that warns of hostiles in system AND does not drive people to distraction, proceed no further.
This is why you need ships in your op to protect your mining ships.
It would mean you need to be more on your toes. instead of having a scout 2 jumps down the pipe to give you warning. it makes the game somewhat more exciting then sitting there watching your mining lasers mindlessly and without any worry.
Its 0.0 space, it only makes sence. local should be removed from game completeley
|
Towelieban
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 14:41:00 -
[38]
|
Wu Jiaqiu
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 14:56:00 -
[39]
Supported - except we should have delayed local in ALL space.
|
Dariah Stardweller
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 16:55:00 -
[40]
Sounds like a plan.
|
|
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 17:01:00 -
[41]
With the proviso of some much improved scanning interface, OH GOD YES PLEASE DO THIS AS SOON AS YOU CAN.
At the very least to 0.0
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 17:04:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Why you people never search for a previous version of the same thread?
It was stated by the Developers that a auto updating scanner is not a acceptable solution as 50K scanners updating every 2-3 second across all of EVE (with all the information gathering that they will do) will add a unacceptable strain to the server, with consequent lag, crashes and so on.
You need to read that again more carefully. What the devs said is that the 'current' directional scanner on autorepeat is bad for the server. This statement was in answer to a "just put an autorepeat on the directional scanner" suggestion.
Obviously the number of possible results/parameters the on-board scanner produces in auto mode would need to be reduced, among other changes.
...
|
Efrim Black
Gallente
Apellon
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 17:38:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Why you people never search for a previous version of the same thread?
It was stated by the Developers that a auto updating scanner is not a acceptable solution as 50K scanners updating every 2-3 second across all of EVE (with all the information gathering that they will do) will add a unacceptable strain to the server, with consequent lag, crashes and so on.
You need to read that again more carefully. What the devs said is that the 'current' directional scanner on autorepeat is bad for the server. This statement was in answer to a "just put an autorepeat on the directional scanner" suggestion.
Obviously the number of possible results/parameters the on-board scanner produces in auto mode would need to be reduced, among other changes.
More importantly , we're not proposing an auto-repeating scanner. Only a buff to combat scanning, and or probes.
A wise man once said, you want to find someone...use your eyes.
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 17:47:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Efrim Black
More importantly , we're not proposing an auto-repeating scanner. Only a buff to combat scanning, and or probes.
A wise man once said, you want to find someone...use your eyes.
I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly here, but with a delayed Local every ship needs to have the innate ability to acquire this intel (in circumstances mainly limited by range) without having to deploy anything, fit any additional modules, or spam button presses. This ability should come from the on-board scanner.
Deployed and fitted equipment should only serve to enhance that ability.
...
|
Efrim Black
Gallente
Apellon
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 17:50:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Razin
"....with a delayed Local every ship needs to have the innate ability to acquire this intel (in circumstances mainly limited by range) without having to deploy anything, fit any additional modules, or spam button presses.
Which is why I said we also need a boost to onboard scanners, and combat scanning probes.
The two go hand in hand. Boost scanners and probes + Nerf localspy.
|
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 18:02:00 -
[46]
Originally by: glitterbomb
This is why you need ships in your op to protect your mining ships.
It would mean you need to be more on your toes. instead of having a scout 2 jumps down the pipe to give you warning. it makes the game somewhat more exciting then sitting there watching your mining lasers mindlessly and without any worry.
Its 0.0 space, it only makes sence. local should be removed from game completeley
The problem with that is the extreme boredom of sitting watching nothing to "scout" for hours. Its the most ******ed gameplay ever.
Simply speaking in such a situation attackers have all the advantages, and no drawbacks. Attackers dont have to wait. And lets not get started on cloaks that would be extremely overpowered in such a place.
All you do is force the few that actually live in 0.0 to get a iskmaking alt in empire along with the rest of you. It would be fun to run around in my recons in 0.0 but no way am i gonna do any ratting or mining in such a scenario. Then i'll stick to missions.
The only way removing local would make sense is if there is some sort of replacement tool for local that would give some of the same info.
And yea this is my sig.
Real PVP'ers only use f1. |
Efrim Black
Gallente
Apellon
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 18:09:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: glitterbomb
This is why you need ships in your op to protect your mining ships.
It would mean you need to be more on your toes. instead of having a scout 2 jumps down the pipe to give you warning. it makes the game somewhat more exciting then sitting there watching your mining lasers mindlessly and without any worry.
Its 0.0 space, it only makes sence. local should be removed from game completeley
The problem with that is the extreme boredom of sitting watching nothing to "scout" for hours. Its the most ******ed gameplay ever.
Simply speaking in such a situation attackers have all the advantages, and no drawbacks. Attackers dont have to wait. And lets not get started on cloaks that would be extremely overpowered in such a place.
All you do is force the few that actually live in 0.0 to get a iskmaking alt in empire along with the rest of you. It would be fun to run around in my recons in 0.0 but no way am i gonna do any ratting or mining in such a scenario. Then i'll stick to missions.
The only way removing local would make sense is if there is some sort of replacement tool for local that would give some of the same info.
Heres an idea, because I've been thinking on this for awhile. If we were to come up with some science skills relating to communications networks and interfacing, that would stand as a nice compromise.
It would be some extra lvl V's to train, but the idea is only the people with the right training can manipulate the comm-networks to use them for intel. Eh? The bonuses could also extend to anyone they are commanding in a Fleet. This would allow small 0.0 corps to have one hacker-scout to watch local while he plays, he keeps the gate campers and sentinels informed?
Just throwing it out there.
|
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 18:17:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Efrim Black
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: glitterbomb
This is why you need ships in your op to protect your mining ships.
It would mean you need to be more on your toes. instead of having a scout 2 jumps down the pipe to give you warning. it makes the game somewhat more exciting then sitting there watching your mining lasers mindlessly and without any worry.
Its 0.0 space, it only makes sence. local should be removed from game completeley
The problem with that is the extreme boredom of sitting watching nothing to "scout" for hours. Its the most ******ed gameplay ever.
Simply speaking in such a situation attackers have all the advantages, and no drawbacks. Attackers dont have to wait. And lets not get started on cloaks that would be extremely overpowered in such a place.
All you do is force the few that actually live in 0.0 to get a iskmaking alt in empire along with the rest of you. It would be fun to run around in my recons in 0.0 but no way am i gonna do any ratting or mining in such a scenario. Then i'll stick to missions.
The only way removing local would make sense is if there is some sort of replacement tool for local that would give some of the same info.
Heres an idea, because I've been thinking on this for awhile. If we were to come up with some science skills relating to communications networks and interfacing, that would stand as a nice compromise.
It would be some extra lvl V's to train, but the idea is only the people with the right training can manipulate the comm-networks to use them for intel. Eh? The bonuses could also extend to anyone they are commanding in a Fleet. This would allow small 0.0 corps to have one hacker-scout to watch local while he plays, he keeps the gate campers and sentinels informed?
Just throwing it out there.
Very Intriguing.
I'd like to see someone expand on this.
Reading the back stories on Fluid Comm's always begged the question...wheres the comm hackers?
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
=========================
|
Efrim Black
Gallente
Apellon
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 18:32:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Efrim Black on 28/03/2009 18:32:46
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Very Intriguing.
I'd like to see someone expand on this.
Reading the back stories on Fluid Comm's always Raised the question...wheres the comm hackers?
Yeah I'm thinking that with two Lvl Vs, (edit: two lvl V's not counting the pre-reqs)maybe a maximum of 50 names can be displayed on local, even if they don't speak.
This + a boost in strength to combat scanning (even if it's only nominal) would be very nice.
I had some other ideas about actually hacking comm-channels, but I don't think CCP would ever implement them, even if the skill requirements were insane.
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 18:34:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Efrim Black
Heres an idea, because I've been thinking on this for awhile. If we were to come up with some science skills relating to communications networks and interfacing, that would stand as a nice compromise.
It would be some extra lvl V's to train, but the idea is only the people with the right training can manipulate the comm-networks to use them for intel. Eh? The bonuses could also extend to anyone they are commanding in a Fleet. This would allow small 0.0 corps to have one hacker-scout to watch local while he plays, he keeps the gate campers and sentinels informed?
Just throwing it out there.
IMO any skill-based solution will just mean an additional required timesink. Everyone will train the new skills and we'll be back to the current situation.
I believe the solution to cloaked ships is to add a 'cloak signature' to scan results. No range or direction, just a presence in system. Maybe the 'visibility' of this signature should depend on the size and type of the cloaked ship, and its range from the scanning ship or probe.
...
|
|
|
Efrim Black
Gallente
Apellon
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 18:44:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Razin
IMO any skill-based solution will just mean an additional required timesink. Everyone will train the new skills and we'll be back to the current situation.
Well...no. Because if you lower the bonus enough, to say 10 non-speaking people shown on local, and you make the pre-requisites hard enough, then even if everyone trained up, it would still be harder to see who was where.
While the idea of cloaked sigs is novel, it would have to be impossible to pin down any of the signals - or cloaking would be pointless.
I still think there is probably a skill-based and or modular solution.
|
Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Shadow Command
Tenth Legion
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 19:52:00 -
[52]
How about only having no local in conquerable space?
________________________________________________
http://eve.drome.nl/CaodCleaner/ Help make CAOD readable. |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 20:13:00 -
[53]
Yes please!
---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 20:21:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Razin on 28/03/2009 20:25:30
Originally by: Efrim Black
Well...no. Because if you lower the bonus enough, to say 10 non-speaking people shown on local, and you make the pre-requisites hard enough, then even if everyone trained up, it would still be harder to see who was where.
How will those 10 be chosen? Seems a little arbitrary. And how hard would you make the pre-requisites? Do the high pre-requisites stop people from having capship-pilot alts? This will just become another item for the alt market.
In any case, even just 10 showing up will completely negate the delayed Local effect, as a ratter will still safe-and-log when someone shows up in Local, and a scout will show up in local to another scout or fleet, etc. Everyone will either have trained those skills themselves or have a "Local alt", in the same way as the current falcon alt.
Originally by: Efrim Black
While the idea of cloaked sigs is novel, it would have to be impossible to pin down any of the signals - or cloaking would be pointless.
Maybe the 'cloak sig' would show up at some relatively short range without giving up the direction, and that this range would vary with the ship size and type. This way makes the stand-off cloaked recon possible, but makes close approach risky.
...
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 22:27:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Efrim Black
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Why you people never search for a previous version of the same thread?
It was stated by the Developers that a auto updating scanner is not a acceptable solution as 50K scanners updating every 2-3 second across all of EVE (with all the information gathering that they will do) will add a unacceptable strain to the server, with consequent lag, crashes and so on.
You need to read that again more carefully. What the devs said is that the 'current' directional scanner on autorepeat is bad for the server. This statement was in answer to a "just put an autorepeat on the directional scanner" suggestion.
Obviously the number of possible results/parameters the on-board scanner produces in auto mode would need to be reduced, among other changes.
More importantly , we're not proposing an auto-repeating scanner. Only a buff to combat scanning, and or probes.
A wise man once said, you want to find someone...use your eyes.
This is what was proposed:
Quote:
I already said there won't be the need for constant scanner clicking. And even with real time scanner update, it's already a big step plus to being able to gank them
"Real time scanner updates" If that is not a scanner on auto repeat it is a scanner in constant use. Or it will not be real time.
Originally by: Razim
Obviously the number of possible results/parameters the on-board scanner produces in auto mode would need to be reduced, among other changes.
There is nothing obvious in this. So you want to reduce the information you get from the scanner and remove local at the same time.
Some other nice idea?
|
Vincent Gaines
Avis de Captura
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 22:44:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 28/03/2009 22:44:10
Originally by: Maraleith
A simple scenario to demonstrate why this should not be proceeded with.
You have a mining op going on in an ice belt with 10 people, an orca and a rorqual. You have scouts out and all is well. You think you are safe and that you have prepared well, but all of a sudden, 20 covert ops (force recons, black ops etc ) appear from nowhere and you start screaming as your well planned and executed little op gets torn to pieces.
Much puiblic ridicule is heaped on your shoulders by whoever.
Podded and annoyed at being bounced, you scream at the scouts, "where was my warning?" and they yell back, "we saw nothing."
Then it dawns on you. Logonski by one character; covert cyno and you were stuffed. And despite all your preparations, you really stood no chance what so ever.
Small problem perhaps anyone?
Until an instant scanning system is implemented that warns of hostiles in system AND does not drive people to distraction, proceed no further.
simple, scanning sends out a ping. you can passively scan, say 3au, and actively scan the 14 or whatever.
so when you scan, you can also be pinpointed.
problem solved.
so those covops exposed themselves scanning down your position.
|
Fearless Kill
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 22:57:00 -
[57]
not supported
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 23:09:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Razin on 28/03/2009 23:11:39
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Razin
Obviously the number of possible results/parameters the on-board scanner produces in auto mode would need to be reduced, among other changes.
There is nothing obvious in this. So you want to reduce the information you get from the scanner and remove local at the same time.
Some other nice idea?
I wrote about reducing the amount of info from ship's scanner when in auto-mode. This seemed obvious to me to allow it to work in real time over ranges of several AU and not overwhelmingly stress the server.
The manual scan may retain all it's current functionality.
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
simple, scanning sends out a ping. you can passively scan, say 3au, and actively scan the 14 or whatever.
so when you scan, you can also be pinpointed.
problem solved.
so those covops exposed themselves scanning down your position.
Good idea. Adds some complexity to the scanning system.
...
|
Pharago
Piratas Leprosos Guineanos
|
Posted - 2009.03.29 03:59:00 -
[59]
yes please
|
Maraleith
Gallente
Zephan Industries
|
Posted - 2009.03.29 07:54:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 28/03/2009 22:44:10
Originally by: Maraleith
A simple scenario to demonstrate why this should not be proceeded with.
You have a mining op going on in an ice belt with 10 people, an orca and a rorqual. You have scouts out and all is well. You think you are safe and that you have prepared well, but all of a sudden, 20 covert ops (force recons, black ops etc ) appear from nowhere and you start screaming as your well planned and executed little op gets torn to pieces.
Much puiblic ridicule is heaped on your shoulders by whoever.
Podded and annoyed at being bounced, you scream at the scouts, "where was my warning?" and they yell back, "we saw nothing."
Then it dawns on you. Logonski by one character; covert cyno and you were stuffed. And despite all your preparations, you really stood no chance what so ever.
Small problem perhaps anyone?
Until an instant scanning system is implemented that warns of hostiles in system AND does not drive people to distraction, proceed no further.
simple, scanning sends out a ping. you can passively scan, say 3au, and actively scan the 14 or whatever.
so when you scan, you can also be pinpointed.
problem solved.
so those covops exposed themselves scanning down your position.
SYSTEM/NETWORK SCANNERS
Personally, I would prefer something linked to sovreignty as a system scanner. If sov level then you can anchor a module at a tower. Make it a big power/cpu module so it cannot be on a deathstar and make it fragile. Then you can have a small gang attack the module offline it and then go on there merry way.
SOV 1 makes people in CONSTELLATION appear 10 seconds after jump cloak finishes.
SOV 2 makes people in CONSTELLATION appear instantly
SOV 3 makes people in SYSTEM appear 10 seconds after jump cloak finishes
SOV 4 makes people in SYSTEM appear instantly
That way, if you hold sov space you get some protection.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |