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RuleoftheBone
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.02 22:47:00 -
[181]
And losec too.
About time. Seriously.
And no new scanning/probing/alliance POS-based candy either.
Simply pull local...end of.
Next step....kiss POS shields goodbye and end the current shambles that is sov and hidey holes for zero risk.
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Armon Deacon
Rage Quit Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.02 22:55:00 -
[182]
 Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Odetta Harpy
no, just no.
null sec alliances get enough people raiding their space, local makes it possible to defend against them.
wait wut?
So, no more claiming 100+ systems that you really don't have the resources to defend?
No more insta-blob because of a local spike, thus encouraging small-scale PvP with roaming patrol gangs?
require active attentiveness to those allainces while operating in lawless space?
god, yes, this is HORRIBLE.
QFT I like this idea
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EvE BeliEvE project.
Can a new player compete in EvE? |
Omega87
Caldari
Griefer-B-Gone
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.02 22:56:00 -
[183]
We dont need a buff to blobs
Not Supported.
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"Nothing ventured, nothing ganked." - Me |
Cheekything
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.06.02 23:53:00 -
[184]
It'd make Eve more fun :) learn to scan guys muhahahahaa
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Omega87
Caldari
Griefer-B-Gone
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.03 00:43:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Cheekything
It'd make Eve more fun :) learn to scan guys muhahahahaa
You act like people dont know how to scan, which isn't true. Go ask all the ninja salvagers and whatnot, everyone got over the new scanning system after the first week.
Its nothing more than an iWin button for the blobs
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"Nothing ventured, nothing ganked." - Me |
BlondieBC
Ardent Industrial
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.03 01:31:00 -
[186]
get rid of local
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Mos7Wan7ed
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Posted - 2009.06.03 03:46:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 03/06/2009 03:49:34
good for big alliance pvp bad for small alliance / isk making.
when your not roaming, and your in your alliance controlled space how do you expect to defend it? how do you expect to make isk to replace loses?
with the scanning functionality now a days you have no idea when you see a ship on scan if its friendly or not. so.. your going to drop what your doing when you see a new ship and run to station, pos, or to a pvp ship? how many times a day is that new contact going to be friendly, and because you have no local you couldn't tell? how are you going to keep track of the friendly ships in local and differentiate from the new hostile ships if you have say 20 ships on your ship scanner? how are you going to do all this friend or foe detection while your trying to mine, rat, or plex?
are you going to trust someone else to do it for you and hope he doesn't go afk?
are you going to keep 23/7 gate camp up in every direction?
are you going to keep cloaked scouts up awake and on task 2-3 jumps out in every direction 23/7?
none of that helps, because that big mean alliance you asked local be removed for so you can get a fair fight, just black op jumped 30 recon/bomber gang in your best isk farming systems and are attacking members of your alliance. they are attacking at random intervals, and popping your alliance members, then cloaking. you have no way of catching them because they have brought enough dps to pop a ship before you can assist them. so now, rather then roaming and taking advantage of this local-less 0.0 you asked for... your fighting to keep hostiles at bay so your members can recover losses. the big bad alliance will be able to widdle down the will of your alliances with cloaked hostile residents on alt accounts.
so in the end, you decide its worth the risk and you set up a secure alliance only channel for friend or foe detection. you request any time a alliance member changes system they report type and name of the ship they are flying so then the person in that system is not surprised to see you there. also, you make requests when you spot new ships to find out if its hostile or not giving your position, the ship type, and name of the unknown ship in the channel.
those big alliances you hate so much and requested local be removed so you can get a leg up on.. well they have lots of alts and they just inserted a spy in your alliance and is now in your friend or foe channel. the big hostile alliance now has a total picture of what ships you have and where. this makes it even easier for the recon/bomber squads they have in your space to efficiently assassinate your members.
after a week of repeated loses with no kills of your own the industrial members can't get any mining done because they keep getting picked off being the easiest targets for hostiles to kill. then the less hardcore of your pvpers leave because they can't keep up with ship losses during pvp, the 23/7 camping and scouting they have to do, and ship loses during pve in their own alliance space. after they are gone, the hard core of the group don't have enough members to withstand a full out assault of a blob of frigs much less then that big mean alliance blob of 200 battleships they could have easily brought to your doorstep before you asked for local to be removed. guess what? you can't see them until they are inside your little sonar net of 2-3 jumps and you don't have a good idea the gang size.. just what the ship scanner picked up when you clicked refresh.
your system jammer is downed in 30 minutes and immediately after that a cyno goes up and local fills with caps. in 2 hours most of the towers your alliance owns is in reinforced, and your alliance epic fails and emo quits 0.0. mad at what has just happened you emo rage in the forum that local must be put back up immediately because you can't properly defend your own space without.
ill be there with a grin on my face saying i told you so  ...
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Aethrwolf
Home for Wayward Gamers
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Posted - 2009.06.03 04:05:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Odetta Harpy
no, just no.
null sec alliances get enough people raiding their space, local makes it possible to defend against them.
as opposed to actually having to be vigilant? or keep enough ppl in systems to defend them? umm.. patrols? probes? GATE GUARDS/SENTRIES (players not drones)?
you then wine about cloaked ships.. well they are CLOAKED for crissakes. Dont start on nerfing cloaks.. the farthest that should go is being able to determine that a cloaked ship is in system, not pinpointing it. What it comes down to is this.. if you want to claim all that space you need to work for it continuously.. its a priveledge and a reward for vigilance, not a right.
Absolutely everything is subjective. |
Mos7Wan7ed
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Posted - 2009.06.03 04:49:00 -
[189]
supporting the OP that doesn't include changes you would like to see before the OP idea is implemented is dumb.
any idea what the reward for the loss of local will counter the risk? 0.0 isk making is on par with empire lvl 4 mission running and risk on par with WH space. why would anyone bother living in 0.0?
any benefit you gain by removing local to pvp you lose to pve mining and plexing when you head home expecting to be able to replace your ships losses, because your not going to have local either.
if 0.0 doesn't completely dry up, i can see this will reduce the pvp encounter types to blobs, small recon/bombers, big bubble gate camps. the only benefit to removing of local is you can hide reinforcements either off scan range or cloaked. if you fit cloaks to large pvp ships i will be loling at your loss mails.
>a small recon gang won't attack a blob or pass through a bubbled gate camp, it will fly to hostile alliance space where the isk farming is done.
>a blob will never see the recon gang, and only engage a gate camp if they have more numbers.
>a gate camp won't see the recons or see a blob unless the blob has more numbers then get trampled by superior numbers.
the black-ops/recon/bomber gangs become overpowered and will wreak havoc in hostile space, no alliance is immune regardless their size. some smaller alliances with more space will be affected more then large alliances with fewer number of systems.
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Oam Mkoll
Caldari
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.03 05:43:00 -
[190]
Yes, great idea. Let's make life easiest for people who can't/don't want to put any effort into making any area theirs. I'm not even talking about 0.0 alliances as it's obvious. I'm also talking about lowsec/highsec corps which make a certain system or systems their home and want to keep it safe for their own operations. Having someone sit and spam scan or probes 24/7 is such a great gameplay idea.
NO WAY! Not supported.
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AncientLord
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Posted - 2009.06.03 08:40:00 -
[191]
I fully support this idea.
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Hrodgar Ortal
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Posted - 2009.06.03 08:58:00 -
[192]
No local means one thing and one thing only.
Risk free pvp for the attackers.
It would completely kill any mining not organized by huge ops fielding several wings of escorts to protect a couple of hulks and hauling ships.
If this would be implemented you would have to give all exhumers a role ability to cloak and mine at the same time to make it even remotely worthwhile to mine.
Of course the people supporting this doesn't care since I doubt any of you are actually doing anything but hunt defenseless targets of opportunity.
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Mos7Wan7ed
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Posted - 2009.06.03 09:17:00 -
[193]
I can't see a modification of the scanning system that wouldn't in one step replace a window called local to a window called scanner that cloaked ships can avoid being on. if that is how it is going to be, then save CCP some coding time and just ask them to allow cloaked ships to disappear off of local after a few seconds of cloaking witch is essentially what removing local would do.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.06.03 10:58:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Mos7Wan7ed
I can't see a modification of the scanning system that wouldn't in one step replace a window called local to a window called scanner that cloaked ships can avoid being on. if that is how it is going to be, then save CCP some coding time and just ask them to allow cloaked ships to disappear off of local after a few seconds of cloaking witch is essentially what removing local would do.
Because we want ALL ships/pilots in local to be in delayed mode, exactly as w-space works now.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Yahrr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.06.03 13:46:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Mos7Wan7ed
the black-ops/recon/bomber gangs become overpowered...
Cloaked ships will rise in price by ridiculous amounts as they get a big buff. So those pilots are the ones who have to be really aware of their surroundings as a loss for them means a big loss. A really big loss.
This while a mission runner or a belt ratter has more time to do his stuff as other people don't know that they are there until they did a scan of the system. Being probed still isn't 30 seconds work so also the ratter has enough time to scan for probes within his area. I do support the idea of making probes appear on the filtered overview as it is virtually impossible to sort 2000 scan results every minute.
I also support he idea of making gates and stations beacons, so that someone who just jumped into system by using a gate is known for 15 minutes, while someone who stays far from known objects to avoid detection gets to be like a shark in the water. I can even imagine scan upgrade modules for ships to counter the whining (auto-scan, (placeable)proximity scanners?). Mission running gets quite safe if you can just place a beacon next to the entrance gate and you should be in real panic when it's suddenly gone (did it get destroyed or did it just expire?) :).
Tbh, both 0.0 and low sec without local would boost small gangs and even solo operations for both pvp and pve.
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iP0D
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Posted - 2009.06.03 14:06:00 -
[196]
Even any consideration of a delayed local, let alone a removed local, should follow well after we actually get 0.0 populated properly again, which means making it beat the isk per hour rates of low sec and empire.
See, if you want to have it easier to gank around - which is a perfectly normal sentiment - without much effort you are going to need sizeable populations to target. Space will have to be used. If space remains virtually empty (exception being CVA and the odd cloaking raven so to speak) and groups of people with infrastructure in space (the x64 syndrome) not having to defend that against ganks but only against capital blobs ... it is going to be a very dull experience.
Be smart. Make sure there is prey in space. Then go hunting. Attempting it the other way around without any decent and competitive incentives for people to actually use space both as individuals and as organisations is a very, very, very stupid mindset.
I'm sure some old timers remember Fountain Alliance or Xetic times. People lived in 0.0, they lived from 0.0, they did not just go there for epeen slugfests while making their money ever more on level 5 and 4 mission runners, trade alts. The first dreads were built in 0.0, now people just import from empire. Even with Local you had a choice of places to gank carebears who just rolled over and died, you could cripple alliances (before those even existed as in game feature) and be entertained for weeks on end with the whining and the crying.
Just rethink it for a moment.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.06.03 14:18:00 -
[197]
Originally by: iP0D
Even any consideration of a delayed local, let alone a removed local, should follow well after we actually get 0.0 populated properly again, which means making it beat the isk per hour rates of low sec and empire.
See, if you want to have it easier to gank around - which is a perfectly normal sentiment - without much effort you are going to need sizeable populations to target. Space will have to be used. If space remains virtually empty (exception being CVA and the odd cloaking raven so to speak) and groups of people with infrastructure in space (the x64 syndrome) not having to defend that against ganks but only against capital blobs ... it is going to be a very dull experience.
Be smart. Make sure there is prey in space. Then go hunting. Attempting it the other way around without any decent and competitive incentives for people to actually use space both as individuals and as organisations is a very, very, very stupid mindset.
I'm sure some old timers remember Fountain Alliance or Xetic times. People lived in 0.0, they lived from 0.0, they did not just go there for epeen slugfests while making their money ever more on level 5 and 4 mission runners, trade alts. The first dreads were built in 0.0, now people just import from empire. Even with Local you had a choice of places to gank carebears who just rolled over and died, you could cripple alliances (before those even existed as in game feature) and be entertained for weeks on end with the whining and the crying.
Just rethink it for a moment.
I live in and from 0.0. I make my isk in 0.0, not with an empire alt. My support for this has nothing to do with the population or lack of population in 0.0. I'm not advocating this change because I'm thinking of ways to get more hunting targets.
I want this change because it makes for a better, more immersive, bigger-feeling, more fun galaxy.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
iP0D
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Posted - 2009.06.03 14:40:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
I live in and from 0.0. I make my isk in 0.0, not with an empire alt. My support for this has nothing to do with the population or lack of population in 0.0. I'm not advocating this change because I'm thinking of ways to get more hunting targets.
I want this change because it makes for a better, more immersive, bigger-feeling, more fun galaxy.
As do I, but we are exceptions to the general mindset. Keep in mind that the absolute majority of people just does not have it in them to seek danger or take risks or even look around the corner :/
We will not get more targets, we will get less targets. The big alliances don't have to defend their belts, they just care about the moons. The smaller ones have enough trouble not to end up as pets of the big boys as it is, let alone compete with them. The bulk of individual players just has zero incentive to make isk or explore or run around in 0.0 because it is much easier and rewarding elsewhere :/
That means less immersion, less stuff to shoot, less stuff to explore, less things to actually do when we log in and want our entertainment handed to us on a silver platter :P
I really wonder what it would look like if we could get licenses for brilliant agents at outposts, if we could only build capitals in 0.0 or at minimum they only could be built using some massively big local resource. If having bridges and jammers and all of that depended on people's activity (!), as opposed to static structures. If empire mission loot was adjusted for less refine yields (and crippling the economy on the side). And after a few months of luring people in then removed local :P
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.03 15:12:00 -
[199]
Die, local, die. 
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2009.06.03 16:07:00 -
[200]
I been against the "no local in 0.0" for a long time. But wormhole really shows it's working great, I'm a huge fan of it.
Definately supported.
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I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
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amarrsuit
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Posted - 2009.06.03 16:39:00 -
[201]
There is one MAJOR difference between 0.0 and WH space: Everyone knows where all the Ice/Ore belts are in 0.0. Sounds like someone wants a Night of the Long Knives against Industrials. Cheap kills FTL. I vote a huge NO!
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Cat Molina
Intransigent
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Posted - 2009.06.04 03:35:00 -
[202]
Supported.
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Simeon Whiteheaven
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Posted - 2009.06.04 04:21:00 -
[203]
No, local in 0.0 space should stay as it is now.
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GoodNDead
I.M.M
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.06.04 06:17:00 -
[204]
Edited by: GoodNDead on 04/06/2009 06:20:03
there is no real sustained pvp going on in wormholes at all, its still untested for the most part. sounds like a bunch of lazy pvpers that can't be bothered to scan down wormholes to me..
0.0 is still mostly empty witch is why you see 2-400 man alliances that have sov over 4-6 outposts and over 100 systems. there is no real reward of being in 0.0 other then sov toys and alliance controlled space, the space doesn't give you any more reward then doing lvl 4 missions do. in some regions it is even less then that =\ For all reward (chuckles) we have massively huge isk sink sov wars that waste billions of isk just for control over it.
if you take local away, you heap even more risk and give nothing for reward to keep people out in 0.0. what you do in the process, is lower risk for players that do not live in 0.0 the ability to fly deep into an alliance controlled space and cause mayhem for the people that actually live out there.
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Edrakiss
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Posted - 2009.06.04 13:27:00 -
[205]
I think a lot of people are really missing the point here. Chasing kill mails is all well and good and down right fun too. However, the ONLY sources of isk being fed into the game are rat bounties and mission rewards. If you stop this from happening you will simply see the economy overheating very very fast.
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Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.04 13:58:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Misanth
I been against the "no local in 0.0" for a long time. But wormhole really shows it's working great, I'm a huge fan of it.
Definately supported.
0.0 and wh space is very different.
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.06.04 14:05:00 -
[207]
and low sec and high sec
Pick Three:
Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.06.04 14:50:00 -
[208]
Originally by: GoodNDead
there is no real reward of being in 0.0 other then sov toys and alliance controlled space, the space doesn't give you any more reward then doing lvl 4 missions do. in some regions it is even less then that =\
I couldn't disagree more. The corp I fly with lives in 0.0 and we are not a part of any alliance. We don't participate in the claiming of space or playing with "sov toys".
We do make our ISK in 0.0. Changing local to Recent Speakers mode would not hurt our ISK making, we don't see a problem with ratting and being cautious.
Not all pilots judge reward based on isk per hour. Some of us consider fun the reward of playing a game (shocking, I know). For us 0.0 space gives infinetly more reward than missions ever could.
We can't stand empire and we'd probably not play if missions were the only option. For us the reward of 0.0 life is freedom and fun. Freedom from the mess of standings and security status issues in empire, freedom from Concord and faction police interference, and freedom to go where we please when we please.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.04 15:47:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Not all pilots judge reward based on isk per hour. Some of us consider fun the reward of playing a game (shocking, I know). For us 0.0 space gives infinetly more reward than missions ever could.
That might be true for you but for most in 0.0 alliances isk/hour is very important as they dont want to spend too much time on what is generally considered a boring activity that funds their fun in pvp. Doing lvl 4's in empire is already more profitable than ratting and an activity you can more or less do afk or while you are playing another char. Removing local in 0.0 would just mean ratting got even more boring (press scan every 5 seconds) and even less profitable. I doubt it gets more people to rat.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.06.04 15:48:00 -
[210]
No.
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