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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.04 15:55:00 -
[211]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 04/06/2009 15:55:12
 Originally by: Mikayla Grey
...but for most in 0.0 alliances isk/hour is very important as they dont want to spend too much time on what is generally considered a boring activity that funds their unskilled F1-F8 "PUSH BUTAN" BLOB in pvp.
Doing lvl 4's in empire is already more profitable than ratting and an activity you can more or less do afk or while you are playing another char. Removing local in 0.0 would just mean ratting got even more boring (press scan every 5 seconds) and even less profitable....BOO HOO
A couple bolded helpful edits for you.
Thank you for pointing out again precisely why local needs to go in 0.0 and losec. You want risk free? Run your L4's in empire.
**EDIT**ISK/hour=ROFL.....McEvE anyone?
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Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.04 16:20:00 -
[212]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 04/06/2009 15:55:12
Originally by: Mikayla Grey
...but for most in 0.0 alliances isk/hour is very important as they dont want to spend too much time on what is generally considered a boring activity that funds their unskilled F1-F8 "PUSH BUTAN" BLOB in pvp.
Doing lvl 4's in empire is already more profitable than ratting and an activity you can more or less do afk or while you are playing another char. Removing local in 0.0 would just mean ratting got even more boring (press scan every 5 seconds) and even less profitable....BOO HOO
A couple bolded helpful edits for you.
Thank you for pointing out again precisely why local needs to go in 0.0 and losec. You want risk free? Run your L4's in empire.
**EDIT**ISK/hour=ROFL.....McEvE anyone?
Oh you are so skilled in eve. Can i be like you? 
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Yahrr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.06.04 23:02:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Mikayla Grey
...for most in 0.0 alliances isk/hour is very important as they dont want to spend too much time on what is generally considered a boring activity that funds their fun in pvp.
How about we vote for free isk for everyone? I guess those 0.0 alliances would like that very much as the only thing I get from your post is that the isk making should be as easy as possible, preferably without risk at all, so that everything can be wasted at pvp. Well... Put a battle squad next to your mining op for security and check the eve guides for the location of the scan button. :)
Originally by: Mikayla Grey
Removing local in 0.0 would just mean ratting got even more boring...
No it would finally get exiting! Try ratting in low sec instead of 0.0 and you get the idea of risk. And as I live the low sec route (allergic to bubbles y'know) I can tell you that removing local there would make it actually less risky for ratters and mission runners as most pirates will find it way too exhausting to scan every system over and over on their roam. 
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Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.04 23:27:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Yahrr
Originally by: Mikayla Grey
...for most in 0.0 alliances isk/hour is very important as they dont want to spend too much time on what is generally considered a boring activity that funds their fun in pvp.
How about we vote for free isk for everyone?
Yea that really showed me how wrong i am.
Quote:
I guess those 0.0 alliances would like that very much as the only thing I get from your post is that the isk making should be as easy as possible, preferably without risk at all, so that everything can be wasted at pvp.
Yea smart people prefer low reward and high risk over high reward and low risk right? Ratting is not really worth it as it is.
Quote:
Well... Put a battle squad next to your mining op for security and check the eve guides for the location of the scan button. :)
Waste the time on a whole group of people and make even less isk/time. Good idea. I'll arrange this with one of the two remaining 0.0 miners. Nothing more fun that babysitting a mining op doing nothing for hours.
Quote:
Originally by: Mikayla Grey
Removing local in 0.0 would just mean ratting got even more boring...
No it would finally get exiting! Try ratting in low sec instead of 0.0 and you get the idea of risk.
Why would i rat in low sec, its not worth the time. Its not even dangerous, you just have to spend a lot of time hiding.
Quote:
And as I live the low sec route (allergic to bubbles y'know) I can tell you that removing local there would make it actually less risky for ratters and mission runners as most pirates will find it way too exhausting to scan every system over and over on their roam.
Open ombeys map or whatever and you find out where there are ratters. You can scan a system in a few seconds with a competent scanner. Do it in a cov ops and they have no chance to see you unless they waste x nr of accounts as gate scouts. |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.05 00:06:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Mikayla Grey
Boohoo.
Truth hurts.
Blob=boring.
No local=dynamic game.
So how would you feel if it was simply a local count-no further info.
Thats a fair compromise. The you will still have time to run and hide every time local spikes +1.
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awdawdwadaw
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Posted - 2009.06.05 00:49:00 -
[216]
No local works in wormholes. Not 0.0.
If one of your station systems has noone logged in someone can bring in a 500 man fleet and kill all poses without even making abludge on the map
NO
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Yahrr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.06.05 00:53:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Yahrr on 05/06/2009 00:54:57
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
So how would you feel if it was simply a local count-no further info.
Thats a fair compromise. The you will still have time to run and hide every time local spikes +1.
And our identity stays unknown. I like that. (still a total local nerf is the only good nerf  )
Ninja edit:
Quote:
If one of your station systems has noone logged in someone can bring in a 500 man fleet and kill all poses without even making abludge on the map
...and solves this too.
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Cissenei
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Posted - 2009.06.07 23:28:00 -
[218]
This is clearly an idea intended to reduce risk for PVP attackers to zero. Full surprise and anonymity every time you're in a mood to pew pew someone? It's a ridiculous idea obviously supported by people unable to effectively counter a) effort b) organization. There are alliances and corporations which care about the space they live in, which mine and rat. Forcing them to constantly spam refresh on a scanner (or worse have a buddy watching probes all the time) is such a moronic idea gameplay-wise that I can hardly believe anyone can support it.
Get a clue 'pvp hax0rs'! 0.0 with even more pointless risk added will become deserted. It will be a huge, empty wormhole with gates where random pvp in small ships happens once in a long while. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.08 16:58:00 -
[219]
0.0 in "supposed to be dangerous" shocker.
It's absurd that the intel provided by local is freely available. Scouting should be difficult, it should require practice and skill and it should be a viable career path, with competent scouts being of critical importance to any corp. Instead, with local giving free intel at the flick of an eye muscle, it's devalued to "stick an alt in that system and wait". Stupid.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.08 17:01:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Cissenei
Typical alt-post nonsense from typical POS/station-hugging alliance drone that usually responds to CTA's with "can't right now ratting in xyz" or "I would have pwn'd all if I had time to fit guns" or "those dirty gankers entering space that only a 200 man blob+carrier support can defend" ad naseum.
Again...if only a local count was displayed what is the problem?
EvE=supposedly dynamic.
Current local intel=CCP hand-holding device for those too lazy to scout/use scanner.
It is interesting to note that those against a local change are alts or from alliances with generally dismal track records (note generally kthx). You don't see the more experienced and proven combat corps against a local change (your SNIGG's, Kenny's (or whoever) and various other space conquering types).
I want the option to turn my IFF off thanks muchly  .
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.08 17:27:00 -
[221]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
I want the option to turn my IFF off thanks muchly .
Outlaws should be able to deactivate their "IFF".  |
Dramaticus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.08 22:20:00 -
[222]
drop local then boost 0.0 rat bounties by oh 500% of so
risk vs reward rite |
Dramaticus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.08 22:27:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Yonker
They get get rid of local as soon as poses in sov holding systems can track enemies.
I.e. If you own the space you can actively see who is in your space(like current local), if not you have to probe or scout the old fashioned way.
oh yeah this too |
LegendaryFrog
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.09 02:02:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Efrim Black
I think we ALL should have to scout the old fashioned way. If a mega alliance can't field one dedicated Scout/watchmen per system, then you fools deserve to lose them.
End of Story.
Listen to this nonsense. While this might seem like a reasonable demand for someone who has never been a part of a 0.0 alliance or has ever spent more than a few seconds thinking about the idea, more than a moments thought reveals how utterly flawed this concept it. This is a videogame, an interactive form of entertainment. You seriously suggest it should at all time be someone's job (or many people's jobs if since you are suggesting one per system) to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING other than stare at empty space waiting for someone to jump through a gate? |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.06.09 16:44:00 -
[225]
Originally by: LegendaryFrog
Originally by: Efrim Black
I think we ALL should have to scout the old fashioned way.
Listen to this nonsense. While this might seem like a reasonable demand for someone who has never been a part of a 0.0 alliance or has ever spent more than a few seconds thinking about the idea, more than a moments thought reveals how utterly flawed this concept it. This is a videogame, an interactive form of entertainment. You seriously suggest it should at all time be someone's job (or many people's jobs if since you are suggesting one per system) to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING other than stare at empty space waiting for someone to jump through a gate?
I agree with Efrim. I still live in 0.0, though I opted out of the alliance game a long time ago.
During my time with alliances, I spent many hours and nights scouting for group ops, fleet moves, good old-fashioned freighter runs (before freighters had jump drives we had to run them through busy 0.0 pipes and bottleneck systems just like any other ship - required a A LOT of scouting to keep the freighters safe).
I still scout today, for a small independant 0.0 corp. We have two other pilots in the corp who I consider scouts "by nature". It's what we do. If we were in the military we'd probably be scome kind of scout or sniper - the waiting is worthwhile if the goal is clear and the stakes are high enough. OUr other pilots get more focus on making things explode because we keep eyes ahead, behind, and around our fleet to ensure we are aware of incomming threats.
An organization that wants to thrive in deep space should attract high-quality pilots of various types: FCs, "grunts" (blob members), scouts, industrialits, spec-ops (small gang and covert), even public relations.
The current system has made it way to "generalized". See local > form blob > use jump-gates > blob attack > stand down.
Oh, and I can tell you that if your scout is doing nothing other than starting at the screen they are doing it wrong.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.06.09 17:03:00 -
[226]
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
Underworld Excavators
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Posted - 2009.06.09 19:09:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Gypsio III
0.0 in "supposed to be dangerous" shocker.
It's absurd that the intel provided by local is freely available. Scouting should be difficult, it should require practice and skill and it should be a viable career path, with competent scouts being of critical importance to any corp. Instead, with local giving free intel at the flick of an eye muscle, it's devalued to "stick an alt in that system and wait". Stupid.
If you own the space you should have the intel on local in ther. Not supported, the suggestion makes perfect sence, but it does not work-out gameplay-wise |
Phoebus Draco
Phoebus Ouroboros
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Posted - 2009.06.09 20:49:00 -
[228]
All local needs to be delayed. Period. This just plain makes sense for immersion purposes.
Whether or not you win the game matters not. It's if you bought it. |
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.06.09 21:05:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
The current system has made it way to "generalized". See local > form blob > use jump-gates > blob attack > stand down.
This. |
Oam Mkoll
Caldari
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.10 12:24:00 -
[230]
Originally by: LegendaryFrog
Originally by: Efrim Black
I think we ALL should have to scout the old fashioned way. If a mega alliance can't field one dedicated Scout/watchmen per system, then you fools deserve to lose them.
End of Story.
Listen to this nonsense. While this might seem like a reasonable demand for someone who has never been a part of a 0.0 alliance or has ever spent more than a few seconds thinking about the idea, more than a moments thought reveals how utterly flawed this concept it. This is a videogame, an interactive form of entertainment. You seriously suggest it should at all time be someone's job (or many people's jobs if since you are suggesting one per system) to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING other than stare at empty space waiting for someone to jump through a gate?
QFT.
Oh, sure, it would be *possible* for some 0.0 alliances to find scouts 24/7 but that role would be ZERO FUN, hardly something to be called playing the game.
Not to mention raiding being ****ty as well: jump to a system, scan, get false positives from POS-parked ships, wander around aimlessly, jump to a next system, rinse & repeat. Plus there would be much, much less stuff to shoot at as semi-carebears would hug empire stations.
---
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 16:09:00 -
[231]
Originally by: LegendaryFrog
This is a videogame, an interactive form of entertainment. You seriously suggest it should at all time be someone's job (or many people's jobs if since you are suggesting one per system) to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING other than stare at empty space waiting for someone to jump through a gate?
This being roughly 99.9% of alliance-based fleet combat (with the balance at POS's or shooting station services)....how exactly would it make it different for you?
Sorry...staring at hypnotic bubbles for hours on end as blueballs takes hold .
Remove strawman kthx.
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Cissenei
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Posted - 2009.06.10 17:49:00 -
[232]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
This being roughly 99.9% of alliance-based fleet combat (with the balance at POS's or shooting station services)....how exactly would it make it different for you?
Sorry...staring at hypnotic bubbles for hours on end as blueballs takes hold .
Remove strawman kthx.
This just in! Some people actually DO live in 0.0 sov alliances AND enjoy it AND do other things than staring at bubbles. From what I heard, we want more people of that kind, not less.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.10 20:42:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Cissenei
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
This being roughly 99.9% of alliance-based fleet combat (with the balance at POS's or shooting station services)....how exactly would it make it different for you?
Sorry...staring at hypnotic bubbles for hours on end as blueballs takes hold .
Remove strawman kthx.
This just in! Some people actually DO live in 0.0 sov alliances AND enjoy it AND do other things than staring at bubbles. From what I heard, we want more people of that kind, not less.
Current system=Rat/mine/plex/whatever with no regard to scanner or any intel beyond the ability to-once an unknown enters system: Right click-show info (or look at naughty little neutral/negative standings box) and run to POS/station while bleating in alliance intel chat for blob to form on xyz gate.
I will ask again....what is this issue with a simple local count? You can still run and hide as previous until you get an eyeball.
Or is that far too much effort?
And one wonders what the various CSM positions are here?
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Yahrr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.06.11 01:49:00 -
[234]
* sry if this is my 3rd post in 4 minutes... GGL Chrome seems to be bugged with posting here...
Funny to see one side supporting the op and even changing it to please the ones not supporting it, while the other side keeps repeating the same reason why they won't support it over and over.
Think some more about it: when would you be safer in your CNR? If the pirate jumps into local and sees only one person listed (you), or when the pirate jumps into local and AGAIN it seems empty...? What you say, that scanning a system repeatedly is exhausting, well this will be extremely true for the pirates as they are the ones who are actively searching without the help of local, while the CNR pilot only has to be smart (place can near mission gate, sit 50 away from it, and *ping* occasionally).
This subject still has my full support. Even better: remove local in all systems including high sec. People who want to talk will still talk, plus it reduces the Jita and blob lag a lot.
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Uronksur Suth
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.06.11 04:26:00 -
[235]
I'm sure this has been rebutted repeatedly, but how about in low sec local simply becomes a member count, unless you actually say something in that channel in which case you're revealed in that system for x minutes. Have cloaking hide you from appearing in local in high and low sec, unless you chat.
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Hrodgar Ortal
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Posted - 2009.06.11 08:15:00 -
[236]
Want a compromise?
Sure, how about this following the iff analogy.
Local always show numbers.
People with the iff on show up in local as it is now.
People with it turned off isn't visable apart from the total count in system.
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Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.11 11:30:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
During my time with alliances, I spent many hours and nights scouting for group ops, fleet moves, good old-fashioned freighter runs (before freighters had jump drives we had to run them through busy 0.0 pipes and bottleneck systems just like any other ship - required a A LOT of scouting to keep the freighters safe).
Thats vastly different from having dedicated accounts in cov ops on a number of gates 23/7.
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Dapto
Minmatar
Dissolution Of Eternity
Ethikos Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.11 11:45:00 -
[238]
Hell yea lets get rid of local completely, i'm sick of having 11 chat windows open and I think it should be reduced to only two (Corp & Alliance) chat windows and no fleet chat all in corp or alliance depending who's in the fleet. Oh wait what a stupid idea very much like yours |
Yahrr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.06.15 21:36:00 -
[239]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
And one wonders what the various CSM positions are here?
A well deserved *bump* to keep this on the first page (sry). And it's definitely something for the CSM to look into...
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Project 001
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Posted - 2009.06.15 22:02:00 -
[240]
Let 0.0 alliances anchor a scanning array at POS that provide local intel for that alliance only in that system. The array must sit outside of the pos, and has low shield HP and massive armor HP, allowing it to be the target of smaller gangs who want to deny intel to the victims of their raid for short periods of time.
If an alliance doesn't anchor the array, they don't have local intel in that system.
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