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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.07 13:42:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Esmenet on 07/04/2009 13:42:49
 Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Ben Derindar
The current system is fine, as it provides both options for 0.0 inhabitants. If you like local, go live in known 0.0. If you don't, go live in a wormhole.
That's not quite fair. If you want to make even options, then make HALF of the 0.0 regions with local, and half without. Then people go real options. 0.0 NPC regions should be split as well.
Well, wormhole space is 0.0 as well. 
But seriously, would the differences between wormhole space as it is now, and known 0.0 with the same delayed local mechanic, be so great?
/Ben
Yes because its much easier to resupply, and much easier to roam. And you know where your targets will be.
Without local you will have some of those multiple account people sitting in cloaked ships for weeks, effectively locking down systems from ratting as there is simply no way you can defend against it. The attacker has all the advantages as he can decide when to attack. The defender have to fight against boredom.
And yea this is my sig.
Real PVP'ers only use f1. |
Justice Forever
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Posted - 2009.04.07 15:16:00 -
[152]
one of the rules of war is know where your enemy is
Not supported
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.04.07 17:10:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Justice Forever
one of the rules of war is know where your enemy is
Not supported
I was gonna say that this is so far the dumbest post in this thread and tell you that you are a dumbsh#t, but then I remembered that children also play this game.
You see, "knowing where your enemy is" is indeed one of the most important pieces of info to have during a war. Which is all the more reason why this info shouldn't be provided for no effort, instantly, and at infinite range. This is because you always have to work to get something that's worth anything. I hope that's clear enough.
It is also important to note that those who propose a delayed Local also propose that the ship's on-board directional scanner gets additional features to mitigate the issues that a delayed Local would create. Such issues include the lack of auto-update function in the current scanner, and the need for additional functionality to replace the current Local.
...
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Kalintos Tyl
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Posted - 2009.04.08 10:43:00 -
[154]
of course 0.0 carebears and blobers wont suport this idea
60D GTC - shattared link |
Yonker
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.08 13:46:00 -
[155]
They get get rid of local as soon as poses in sov holding systems can track enemies.
I.e. If you own the space you can actively see who is in your space(like current local), if not you have to probe or scout the old fashioned way.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.08 17:02:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Yonker
They get get rid of local as soon as poses in sov holding systems can track enemies.
I.e. If you own the space you can actively see who is in your space(like current local), if not you have to probe or scout the old fashioned way.
That skews the balance too much in favor of defenders and mega alliances - they already have a lot of advantages. The local nerf should primarily benefit the small guy.
It does make sense to let POS modules that improve intel, but it shouldn't be just like current local. And those POS modules shouldn't be hiding in POS shields
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Efrim Black
Gallente
Apellon
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:52:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Yonker
They get get rid of local as soon as poses in sov holding systems can track enemies.
I.e. If you own the space you can actively see who is in your space(like current local), if not you have to probe or scout the old fashioned way.
I think we ALL should have to scout the old fashioned way. If a mega alliance can't field one dedicated Scout/watchmen per system, then you fools deserve to lose them.
End of Story.
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Just fearless
Caldari
Rogue Knights of Eve
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:48:00 -
[158]
NOO!!!
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.10 00:12:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Just fearless
NOO!!!
He's "just fearless" because he knows local chat will keep him safe, give him instant info on when to hit CTRL+Q 
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Kralin Ignatov
The Colour Out of Space
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2009.04.11 18:03:00 -
[160]
not supported.
it is a great idea, but current tools and battle models do not allow for such changes to occur just yet. If CCP gaves us tools to identify which ships in system are actually piloted, and which ones are friendly / hostile, then yes. Scanning atm is already boring and annoying enough, i certainly dont fell like doing more of it. And not to mention that it would make ratting / plexing / minning in 0.0 nearly impossible, as well as too stressful, in anticipation of a waiting attack.
To put it simply, more things would have to change then just the local chat to implement this.
[thumbs down]
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Kytanos Termek
Caldari
Darkstorm Command
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.04.11 21:49:00 -
[161]
No. NO. NO.
rather than take local away from everywhere.
Make new k-space regions with no local. That way we dont have to deal with a ****storm, but it's there. And people will take it.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.04.12 00:13:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Kralin Ignatov
it is a great idea, but current tools and battle models do not allow for such changes to occur just yet. If CCP gaves us tools to identify which ships in system are actually piloted, and which ones are friendly / hostile, then yes.
That's the whole point though - we shouldn't instantly know every ship in system, who is in it, how old they are, thier employement history, and whether they are friendly or hostile.
It's absolutely awesome in a w-space system when you first pick up and unkown ship on scanner and you have to try to figure out who they are, if they have also spotted you, and whether they are friend or foe. It's far more realistic/immersive and has a deep space feel that is lacking when the local window automatically gives you an attendance roster of everyone in system.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.12 16:04:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Esmenet on 12/04/2009 16:05:19
Originally by: Ephemeron
That skews the balance too much in favor of defenders and mega alliances - they already have a lot of advantages. The local nerf should primarily benefit the small guy.
It does make sense to let POS modules that improve intel, but it shouldn't be just like current local. And those POS modules shouldn't be hiding in POS shields
Somehow i think that removing local will hurt the little guy the most.
The mega alliances are the ones that can afford dedicated scout accounts, and have the possibility to create big intel systems.
The multi account players can place their isk-generating chars in empire space and keep their pvp'ers in 0.0 like they do now, and the few that get their isk from moons wont really care either way.
Its the alliance grunts and small time players with *shock* 1 account that actually lives in 0.0 based on ratting income that will get hurt. Especially if they are in smaller alliances.
And yea this is my sig.
Real PVP'ers only use f1. |
Cyprus Black
Caldari
Elitist Jerks
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.12 18:52:00 -
[164]
I support a thumbs down option so I may use it here in this thread.
______________
Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. |
Matarella
Fremen Sietch
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Posted - 2009.06.01 18:26:00 -
[165]
/signed
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Creamster
Xenobytes
Stain Empire
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Posted - 2009.06.01 20:02:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
The net result? Small to mid scale combat consists entirely of recon gangs stumbling around blindly in the darkness and occasionally bumping accidentally into each other.
This.
Not supported
___________
In Petition we trust |
Miracle
Fremen Sietch
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Posted - 2009.06.01 20:04:00 -
[167]
signed
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Mos7Wan7ed
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Posted - 2009.06.01 20:19:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 01/06/2009 20:26:19
sure remove local or delay it.. when, ship scanning is in combination with removal of celestial beacons..
it takes about 60-120 seconds for a good pilot to scan down a target in a belt with just a ship scanner with the celestial beacons on his overview to guide his ship scanner. if he is in a recon he can jump in and spend long amounts of time in system and the others in local would never know he is there. he can then bounce from belt to belt looking for target without the other in local being the wiser. the only time they would know is when he uncloaked and pointed a ship.
if you take local away, then you'd have to take away all celestial beacons too, in order to give the people in a belt a fighting chance. taking away the beacons would require a ship be located with the use probes, giving the person with the scanning window open a fighting chance to see probes before becoming lunch.
the problem you get with that is.. huge numbers of people with even larger numbers of bookmarks. something similar to before you could warp to 0, everyone had bookmarks for gate travel and it caused huge lag in game. so it kinda makes the whole remove local a mute point doesn't it.
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Mos7Wan7ed
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Posted - 2009.06.01 20:40:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 01/06/2009 20:41:11
on the pvp side of things..
its hard enough getting a far fight with local being visible now a days.. its going to be even harder when it isn't visible.
it removes small ship pvp from the game. the small gang isn't going to know its about to run into a blob so they wont leave until they have 20-30+ players in the gang.
making ships that can't warp cloaked a big no no, it removes t1 ships from roaming gangs as well.
whats left? small gangs of roaming recons and bombers, or big 0.0 gate camps.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2009.06.01 20:59:00 -
[170]
Under the current mechanic: NO. Introduce local immediate even for WH space.
Improve the local scanner to a constant operation rather than forced spamming of scan scan scan all day long and then I'll be willing to shut off local... but not until then.
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Mos7Wan7ed
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Posted - 2009.06.01 21:23:00 -
[171]
don't be under the assumption it wont bother your alliance. this hurts big and small alliances alike.
when you aren't around killing all these people because local is gone...
you are back in your alliance owned 0.0 mining, ratting or plexing with the scanner open refreshing every 10 seconds to look for probes or hostile ships right? if you find a ship on scan how do you know its hostile? do you leave the belt or plex and ask in alliance? does that alliance chat become a huge spy tool for another alliance, thus giving away your position? how many times in an hour are you going to leave a belt or plex because a new ship was spotted in local? how do you keep track of all the friendly uncloaked and spot the one hostile uncloaked?
NO NO NO...
You PvP in 0.0 then you mission run and mine in empire then right?
what happens to the cost of minerals like zydrine and megacyte if miners cant mine the 0.0 ores? then what happens to the price of those ships and mods you fly? can you afford to fly them to get these cool 0.0 kills because there is no local?
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Solo Player
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Posted - 2009.06.01 22:07:00 -
[172]
Still not going far enough, but will support anyway.
Fear is clouding sceptics's minds in this thread. They will find a way to live without local and live well, they just don't know yet.
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Minkert
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Posted - 2009.06.02 00:56:00 -
[173]
Only Sov owners of system can see local in 0.0- /signed
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Taudia
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.06.02 13:04:00 -
[174]
Remove local now, and you have no way of telling friend from foe in any given system, or even if people outside your gang is present in system for fleet sized gangs.
I support the eventual removal of 0.0 local, once means of gathering intelligence can accomodate such conditions. If it was implemented without changes to scanning mechanics tonnes of problems arise, mainly surrounding needing visual confirmation of nearly everything since the on-board scanner and probes do not give any information about the item in question with regard to loyalty - a ship abandoned at a POS is indistinguishable from a ship in space, and your allies ships in space indistinguishable from enemies or neutrals. Additionally, ships that can currently warp cloaked become overpowered.
Not supported.
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.06.02 13:09:00 -
[175]
no...
I think there is a reason why most of the people suggesting this don't have one of the bigger 0.0 alliance/corporations under their name while posting ...
_______________
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.06.02 13:29:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Holy Lowlander
no...
I think there is a reason why most of the people suggesting this don't have one of the bigger 0.0 alliance/corporations under their name while posting ...
Yeah, the entrenched power-blocks like the intant-intel "quick rally the blob!" tool.
Down with Local! Power to the independants! 
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
FlameGlow
Legio Octae
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.02 13:40:00 -
[177]
Only for claimable 0.0 when there are tools to create blockades not requiring player gatecampers
Like maybe anchoring a forcefield bubble around the gate, like what's in some missions(but sturdier, 1 mil HP should suffice). It allows passage based on standings/password or by just blasting it to pieces(which will alert the owners by chat message in local/constellation/alliance channel)
Or maybe gate sentries, like in lowsec, 2 per sov level, attacking based on sov holder standings. Maybe medium pos guns, scram/web instead.
_____________
I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Ana Vyr
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Posted - 2009.06.02 15:11:00 -
[178]
Not supported. |
Sumnamna
Caldari
Flying Scotsmen
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Posted - 2009.06.02 20:36:00 -
[179]
NO
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Yahrr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.06.02 21:56:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Yahrr on 02/06/2009 22:00:10
I support the idea of removing local anywhere in Eve...
It only messes with the background story as it was introduced together with the wormholes. Remember the message: "Subspace communication beacon unreachable. Channel list unavailable." in your local in w-space? It hints that the other systems (at least in empire) do have these beacons. I could imagine that these beacons are placed around stations and gates, and keep track of players for 15 minutes. So if you are near a gate or a station, or have initiated contact with the beacon yourself (speaking in local), then you're known for the next 15 minutes. If you move away from beacon objects or cloak somewhere for more than 15 minutes you will be invisible to local chat again.
[flame away, I'm fitted with 95% Thermal resists :P]
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