EVE Search - Exploit or not? Lets get some opinions

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Exploit or not? Lets get some opinions

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Allamarr	Posted - 2009.03.27 18:22:00 - [1] I'm in a .5 system the other day mining with in a hulk.. An anathema de-cloaks as he rams into me of me and 4 seconds later his two friends lad on top of me in light cruisers with nothing but plasters and heat sinks on. I have a pretty heavily tanked hulk with a nice faction shield booster and invulnerability field II but they slice through it like hot butter and start on my friends hulk right next to me getting half way through his armor before concord arrived and killed them. Then their anathema scoops the loot and jets. My hands are tied... if i knew what they were doing I can't shoot the anathema because technically it hasn't digressed me. I cant warp off because the keeps bumping me out of alignment. And when his friends arrive i can't even use something like ecm burst to break their locks because that would affect the so far neutral anathema again and still gets me concorded. Problem... The attackers both had over -9 security status so how did they get into a .5 with a ship intacked. They didn't fly it into the system or the gate guns would have killed them. They didn't jump clone into a station and undock the station guns would have shot them. And from looking at the kill board they had no tank at all. So even if they had a friend with higher sec status bring the ships to them in a safe spot he is still an accomplice. CCP says that concord will kill the attacker and their accomplices but they left their warp in neutral anathema alive to scoop the loot. They couldn't have completed this maneuver without him yet he didn't get the same punishment of loosing their ships. So what i see as an exploit is that these two pirates got ships in a high sec system when game mechanics clearly tries to prevent them from doing this and that their accomplice didn't receive the death penalty along with them for the crime they committed. This is the equivalent of letting an armed known psychopath walk into a police station and start waving his gun around... When the innocent bystanders ask for the police to do something they say "We can't do anything till they actually shot one of you". How stupid is that.. So the psychopath shoots a civilian in the head and another in the arm before the police finally gun him down. But they do nothing to the psycho's friend who handed him the gun right in front of them... no he is free to rob the dead corpses and go on his way. So tactical exploit? Or am I just a soar looser who needs to get over it? You tell me!!
Black Otis Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.03.27 18:24:00 - [2] EXPLOIT all the way... CCP expects you too just sit there as if in front of a firing squad for anyone who chooses to attack you anywhere in high sec and if you try to defend yourself and prevent what you KNOW is about to happen they kill you instead of your would be aggressor.
Marika Sol Gallente Spazzed Out Enterprises	Posted - 2009.03.27 18:31:00 - [3] Edited by: Marika Sol on 27/03/2009 18:32:40 Exploit I've lost ships the same way and while I agree that if a person wants to sacrifice their sec status for a suicide gank thats their choice but CCP says that anyone helping them dies too but they limit that to anyone "remote repping" or something like that and ignore their accomplices who they couldn't do this without, namely the person giving them a warp in or scanning your cargo to see what it might be worth or sitting there ready to scoop the loot when their friend dies. You know if the real world the driver goes to jail along with the gun handling bank robber. Are we to imagine that in the make believe society of the eve universe people in general civilized society are that naive. And besides... whats the point of loosing sec status and having gate guns fire on you when you enter high sec if not to keep you out... and if that's the case then how can they say it isn't an Exploit for people to find a tricky way around it. And if it really is ok then what is the point of lowering sec status... just to make it slightly more difficult for them to do what they were doing anyway? If that's the case then we should all be pirates. But either way CCP shouldn't have double standards. They are just trying to keep their pirating customers coming back and buying another months subscription and making themselves into hypocrites while they are at it. If I don't bother YOU, DON'T bother ME.
Kjelthorne	Posted - 2009.03.27 18:37:00 - [4] If their standing is below -5.0, they should be KOS without retribution anywhere, anytime. In fact the gate guns should be shooting them on site. If that's not the case then it is an exploit and CCP will need to fix it. That's the POINT of being -5, anyone can shoot you anywhere.
Nephilius Caldari Grey Legionaires	Posted - 2009.03.27 18:43:00 - [5] Heck, fix the bumping would be a good start. Had some r-tard in a frigate bump me over and over, trying to get me to aggress him while I was mining. Knocked me 23km from my original point...methinks bashing a little ship into a bigger one should collapse the small one into a shape similiar to a Honda Civic ramming a train. But that could just be me. I ate a Carebear once...couldn't quit farting rainbows for a month.
Thorson Wiles Minmatar M3 Co-Op	Posted - 2009.03.27 20:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Kjelthorne If their standing is below -5.0, they should be KOS without retribution anywhere, anytime. In fact the gate guns should be shooting them on site. If that's not the case then it is an exploit and CCP will need to fix it. That's the POINT of being -5, anyone can shoot you anywhere. Pods can always get through, since NPCs won't fire on them. Buddy/Alt with Orca and good standings drop ships to the gankers at safespots. Was a big thread shortly after QR when this first happened. (This has also happened before QR with alts that just spend some extra time ferrying ships to the safespot)
Airborne Legoholic Caldari Caldari Innovative Sciences and Engineering	Posted - 2009.03.27 20:18:00 - [7] I agree completely with what you have said Allamar, Exploit 100%. This could be solved pretty simply too, all you have to do is make it so that when you steal from a can, shoot another person, etc. Anyone in your fleet goes flashy red with them. In Highsec that would mean, if you shoot me, and you have a neutral buddy sitting there in fleet, he goes flashy and gets Concorded as well. You'd also have to change the warning to "This will also cause fleet members to go global". The sad thing is there will probably be people who say: "That can't happen, because what if your in a ten man group, and one decides to go shoot someone and you all get killed for it?" I say: "Pick better friends to travel with, if they act like that without your consent, what kind of friend are they?" Anyway like I said, what you explained happens a lot, and has happened to me as well. This kind of Bull**** needs to be hampered more than it already has.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.03.27 20:32:00 - [8] yes, bumping is a silly thing, the bump effect should depend on the ratio of the mass difference, if the smaller is not even destroyed! But the other aggro thing - one shoot, all die is rubbish in my opinion. This would mean the end of fleet gangs and turn into bunches of neutral guys where your proposed aggro mechanics would fail again.
Airborne Legoholic Caldari Caldari Innovative Sciences and Engineering	Posted - 2009.03.27 20:34:00 - [9] Originally by: Robert Caldera yes, bumping is a silly thing, the bump effect should depend on the ratio of the mass difference, if the smaller is not even destroyed! But the other aggro thing - one shoot, all die is rubbish in my opinion. This would mean the end of fleet gangs and turn into bunches of neutral guys where your proposed aggro mechanics would fail again. Did you not read my part about choosing a better group of people? Sometimes what happens in eve should not be controlled by CCP, sometimes you need to use the brain you were born with and not gang with people who do stupid things that you yourself did not intend to do.
hawtalt pr0nmistress	Posted - 2009.03.27 20:45:00 - [10] EXPLOIT maybe but there is no way really to build game mechanics to fix it. If we work with your example, unless the Anathema was fleeted with the bad guys there is no way for the server to know he is associated with them so if something came in to combat this, people would just not be fleeted together. The only way to fix this is to speed up concord response on a player with outlaw status if they get into a ship... Or, you could not mine in a 0.5 near lowsec now you know this can happen or just get mates to protect you and pod the bad guys when they do it again. Then you can do bad things to their frozen corpses.

Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.03.27 20:55:00 - [11] Originally by: Airborne Legoholic Did you not read my part about choosing a better group of people? Sometimes what happens in eve should not be controlled by CCP, sometimes you need to use the brain you were born with and not gang with people who do stupid things that you yourself did not intend to do. sure I did but I dont think its reasonable solution because I guess people would rather fly unfleeted together instead of taking responsibility for others.
Allamarr	Posted - 2009.03.27 22:03:00 - [12] In my humble opinion the simple solution to this problem is... If the persons security status would cause them to get their ship popped for going through a gate or exiting a station they they should get concorded as soon as they get in a ship anywhere in that system... That way even if they get a ship brought to them by a friend or alt at a safe spot or grab it from their corp hanger at a POS as soon as they sit in the pilots seat concord should respond to that the same as they would at a gate or station. It would be the equivalent to taking the gun away from a known criminal.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.03.27 22:06:00 - [13] Edited by: Robert Caldera on 27/03/2009 22:06:07 nnnaaahhhh I would not like this, high sec should not become carebear fortress.
Mayobe	Posted - 2009.03.27 22:11:00 - [14] Edited by: Mayobe on 27/03/2009 22:11:56 Not an exploit. They came up with a plan and smuggled themselves in to execute it. Life happens. Take it up with CONCORD, not CCP. Hisec is not 'safe'. It's just policed.
Imertu Solientai Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.27 22:26:00 - [15] This is NOT an exploit, as has been clearly stated by CCP.
Allamarr	Posted - 2009.03.27 23:08:00 - [16] Originally by: Imertu Solientai This is NOT an exploit, as has been clearly stated by CCP. If that's true then you should let them know that they stated it because all they will tell me is that suicide ganking isn't an exploit not that sneaking an criminal into high sec and giving him a ship isn't and exploit. Which is what this thread is all about. It was actually one of the GM's who responded to my petition about this most recent act who suggested I start this discussion as they don not seem to currently have a stand on weather or not it is a "Tactical Exploit" So the question still remains for discussion... is the Tactic used to circumvent game mechanics an exploit or not? Therefore I request reasonable debate either for or against... not blatant references to supposed statement that either CCP never made or that their own GM's don't seem to know about.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.03.27 23:42:00 - [17] Concord doesn't provide 100% safety and they don't provide protection. Concord provides consequences. As distastefull as I find the tactics they used I would not call it an exploit. I do believe Concord should stop insurance payouts on suicide attacks to make them less profitable. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Fyzikz Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.27 23:56:00 - [18] Edited by: Fyzikz on 27/03/2009 23:56:24 Simple solution. If a character is a -.5 sec status or lower comes into high sec in a pod one of 2 things should happen. 1. Concord Pods him.. execution works (at least with Amarr.. hee hee) 2. His/Her ability to get into a ship outside of a station is revoked by concord until he/she returns to low sec system. Meaning: A. He cannot get into a ship from a pod in the game (actual in game lockout) or B. Once he Enters a ship concord is immediatly notified and begins pursuit, this would limit the pirates ability to work these game mechanics as he/she would be in a race against concord one they board the ship rather then sitting in system at some random planet getting the whole group organized. If B. then the criminal act should trace back to the player that gave them the ship should it have been removed form an Orca or an orca allowed them use of the fitting station even though they were an obvious flashy red (since they are enganged in a global criminal act boarding aship in high sec) pie rate. edit: Ohh yeah.. definite exploit
Allairn	Posted - 2009.03.28 00:54:00 - [19] Well I have to say that I have a problem with the ship that remains neutral while bumping you to keep you from warping that is an exploit as there are no consiquences. He has just taken part in hostilities against a ship and entirely avoided even a dent to his sec status. The - sec status pirates acquring ships in high sec is not, as there is no reason why they couldn't pay someone to put a ship out in space. This of course has it's risks. Unfortunantly I do not see a way to solve this issue with out making legitimate piracy impossible, one possibility is to have ships in the same fleet as those performing criminal activities to take a sec hit and not draw aggro from concord, unfortunantly they would just leave the fleet as soon as their buddies warped in. That is the main problem with most possibilities that would involve fleeting, they can be avoided by leaving the fleet.
Anton Cyldragen	Posted - 2009.03.28 04:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Allamarr They didn't fly it into the system or the gate guns would have killed them. They didn't jump clone into a station and undock the station guns would have shot them. gate and station guns do not attack people with outlaw status unless they have a global criminal countdown(which is not the same as being outlaw gcc is a 15min countdown from aggression on a neutral target) so my guess is they jumped in from low sec and warped in "light cruisers" that could get away from the gate they jumped in through b4 concord showed up to stop them. then they killed you and the stuff with the can is legit so don't bother... accept that it is not possible to program concord for every event and trying to do so would cause more problems then it would solve.

Ivy Scorn Amarr Nethro Ore Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.03.28 08:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Anton Cyldragen would cause more problems then it would solve. If they were to podkill pirats in highsec they'd have to add some 900k backup clones in lowsec in case the pirat 'forgot' to move his medical clone out of highsec. Otherwise the forums would be flooded with tears from stuck pirats
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis	Posted - 2009.03.28 10:33:00 - [22] How about adapt mofo ? And not an exploit. Please resize sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 - Mitnal lemme go for that 8 pixels - val
J Valkor Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.03.28 12:05:00 - [23] Oh man, can you shoot at people with that low of sec status in high sec without penalty? I don't see it very often but holy **** that would be fun.
Anton Cyldragen	Posted - 2009.03.28 21:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Ivy Scorn Originally by: Anton Cyldragen would cause more problems then it would solve. If they were to podkill pirats in highsec they'd have to add some 900k backup clones in lowsec in case the pirat 'forgot' to move his medical clone out of highsec. Otherwise the forums would be flooded with tears from stuck pirats so your solution is to make concord appear instantly(actually 0 seconds) and pod the outlaw thus trapping him in the low sec that he went negative in? if so that's a stupid idea. if you want concord to pod people who agress in high sec after concord destroys their ship then force them to be stuck in some random low sec pocket. that's a stupid idea because there is no difference to being stuck in some high sec station and being stuck in a dead low sec system
NightF0x Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists	Posted - 2009.03.28 22:16:00 - [25] The carebear river of tears is flowing wildly out of control in this thread. What happened is NOT an exploit. NPC's or Concord will never ever shoot a pod so they can get into a system. Just because they out-smarted you doesn't mean that they are cheaters. They had support, much like what could happen in real-life if someone escapes prison. Not everyone out there has your best interest in mind. Hi-sec isn't meant to be risk free. Every time that you undock you risk loosing your ship. You're best option now is to go back to New Characters forum and start reading on basic game mechanics. Maybe even read the Criminal forum to find out new tactics. ------------------------------------
Allamarr	Posted - 2009.03.29 00:09:00 - [26] Come on guys we are getting way off topic again. The intention of this thread is not to suggest how CCP should solve the problem if this is ever determined to be an exploit but rather simply to discuss weather the "TACTIC" used in the opening discussion should be considered and exploit. To recap: What is the TACTIC. Simple a couple of player pirates with such bad security status that they shouldn't be able to fly a ship into high sec space somehow get ships in. Doesn't matter how they did it but they are there. They now use a high security status accomplice to find them a target. Once they have the target they repeatedly bump the target out of alignment so they can't warp off while their pirate friends use him as a warp in. They then kill the intended target before concord arrives and kills them. But not all of the involved parties have their ships destroyed. Because bumping and providing a warping isn't consider and "aggressive" act by concord. So after you die and his friends the pirates die he is still there to scoop the loot and make off with it. The reason this tactic is in question: The pirates seemed to have found a way of circumventing game mechanics to get themselves ship in high sec space. I can think of a number of ways but I dont want to give anyone ideas. The point is the game clearly tries to prevent this. Also their accomplice who gives the warp in and scoops the loot was a vital part of their attack even though the never fired a shot... They likely couldn't have done it without him as their prey would have easily fled without being bumped or when they warped in at a much greater range than their 'glass cannons' could fire at. Yet this accomplice doesn't get killed by concord. Cons... It seems to many to be a clear violation of game mechanics and the GM who answered my original petition on this matter even said that it isn't decided weather or not the TACTIC is an exploit. He then suggested I start this treat so please dont go pretending to quote CCP as "HAVING CLEARLY STATED" because they have not made up their minds. Pros... Many also have the opinion that "If its possible its fair". That may be true for now but lets face it if CCP had that attitude then No One would have EVER been banned for Exploiting. So yes it is possible to exploit. So the question remains for discussion is this TACTIC an exploit?
Reina Muerte	Posted - 2009.03.29 00:26:00 - [27] Im with you Allamarr. I think this is totally an exploit. But who cares. CCP isn't going to do anything about any exploit unless it cost them money. Like the recent POS exploit. Those people where making isk hand over fist with that and no doubt funding the many isk selling web sites out there. Which in turn cost CCP money because who's going to buy a time code for $35 that you can trade for 600 mill isk when you can buy 2 billion isk for the same price from some web site. So they took action yea. Why? Because it served their interest. Not because the general population of eve had a problem with it or for that matter even knew anything about it. So I'll help all of you fight back. I can tell you how to get concord there before you get attacked. Unfortunately this pretty much only works for those attacked in an asteroid belt and I haven't figured out a good protection for gate gankers. But that's at least half the problem right :) Oh and you need at least two people to do this. So there you are about to go out on a mining op with your corp. Maybe two of you in retrievers or 10 of you in hulks. All it takes is one person with a spare slot on their account. You create an alt. A throw away. Don't get attached he is going to die a lot. And leave him in a noob corp you dont want him in yours. You move this noob alt to the area where you do you mining at. When you get ready to go you log the alt on and fly him out to the belt where you are going to be working. Nothing special just take his noob ship. Now have one of your hulks fly out to the belt. As soon as the hulk lands use the noob alt to attack the hulk. It wont even scratch the shields and about 10 seconds later Concord will arrive and take out your noob. No biggie. Fly his pod back to the station and log off. Log your main character back on hope in a hulk or whatever and go join the mining op. Now you have concord on location protecting you. If gankers show up #1 hopefully they will be smart enough to know better than to try anything with Concord there. #2 If for some reason they don't notice concord sitting there because they are blind or stupid then they get popped as soon as their first weapon activates. So I hope this help keep carebears alive and kills a lot of gankers or at least makes them go broke because they have no skills besides stealing candy from a baby. And before you get any smart remarks about that you sorry pirates try flying up to my hulk and asking for a real fight. I'll go trade ships and give you one sir. LOL now who's the carebear Most Sincerely, Reina Muerte
Mistress Frome SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.03.30 04:41:00 - [28] Originally by: Allamarr The reason this tactic is in question: The pirates seemed to have found a way of circumventing game mechanics to get themselves ship in high sec space. Being in high sec as an outlaw isn't against game mechanics. Being in high sec as an outlaw in a ship isn't against game mechanics either. ---
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.03.30 06:39:00 - [29] Sad but true, this was simply a cunning use of game mechanics to score a couple of cheap kills. You can configure overview settings so that people with low security status will show up in Local with yellow or red skulls. If you do that, and simply run back to station when you see skulls in local, you'll save yourself the trouble of losing your expensive mining ship.
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis SIRRIUS.	Posted - 2009.03.30 09:46:00 - [30] This one time at band camp i heard some people use their local window and their game notifications which told them when flashies were in local. Those same crazy people were actually playing the game not alt-tabbing back in from Hello Kitty Online And then this other time at band camp i heard those guys warped off to avoid getting shot. It was prety crazy they had liek friends and scouts in this MMORPG to protect a 100+mil ship?!? Also.. if requested changes to podding crims does stick, then ALL npc's should pod players, including mission and belt rats after they pop your ship.



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.