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Stealth Bombers II - A new focused role

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DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2009.04.20 19:44:00 - [1351] I will have you a price list and the bomber price are not going down take a look at the chart. The cost of the Mani is now stable at 50 mil that is up from 15 mil a month ago. Rigs are around 25-30 mil ( the price is increasing). implants and tech 2 fittings you can add another 30 mil. This list is off the top of my head I will fly to jita and price out a full build for youwhen I get home. The sad part is the price has increased but the ship ability has decreased.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.20 19:54:00 - [1352] Try this CCP. Give us back the old stealth bomber as it was prepatch. Offer the new stealth bomber as a completely different ship, different name if you like. See which bomber people prefer to fly. My opinion? This new bomber is more glass and less cannon. You've increased its vulnerability and decreased its effectiveness both in variety of target choices and effectiveness against the target it is said to be designed for. As a ship class it has fallen into the fail category. So much so that it now is easily one the least desirable ships in EVE to fly. Not enough thought, apparently deaf to the protests of bomber pilots and little to zero testing or attention to the testing. I pay to play a developed game, not to play a perpetualy bugged beta test. Windjammer
Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.04.20 19:56:00 - [1353] Originally by: DNSBLACK Edited by: DNSBLACK on 20/04/2009 19:37:29 Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: DNSBLACK As for large scale use over the weekend OMG no you didn't. All that proves is people tried it and by the time this is all over they are going to park them and never use this over priced glass cannon when they can fly less expensive ships and be more effective. 100 mil to outfit properly and it is a in between build. 3. 20% explosion velocity, 10% flight time, 15% torp velocity, 5% bomb damage, 15% torp damage. 4. All you did was buff the price of this ship and make it a large alliance play toy at 100 mil. Nope. We used a large 30 SB gang this weekend andw worked quite well. Only thing that really needs to be changed is the cloaked ships uncloakign other claoked ships. That makes covert ops cloaks useless. Also The normal cloak without recloak delay would be better on my humble opinion. 1. Mostly harmless= You lost your space to the Russians in Drones regions. PETS of NC. They own moons and have 0.0 money making abilites. Now you are claiming to be SB experts cause you flew around in a 30 man SB over the week end had some success. A 30 man gang of any ship type would own. Heres a tip go get 30 AF and see what they can do at 1/4 the price of the bomber now. Hell go get 30 of any ship. Please explain your success http://kb.eve-42.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=72623 OK i found it but iam sorry those are 30 BS not bombers http://kb.eve-42.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=64849 They best part about the secondlink is the tri bomber killed lol good thing he had cov cloak. I looked at all your kills over the weekend cant seem to find the 30 man bomber gang. Can you link us to the 30 man bomber gang kill mails. I will link my board if you like. Heres a news Flash 30 old SB were just as good and cost 150% less and killed alot more. The sad part is you guys never new the power of these ships until this change and now they are even weaker. I guess if you never had a good steak you think horse meet tasted good. 2. Honestly i disagree with the change. I am willing to use it cause I have to. You shoved these changes on us. You made us train a entire new weapon system. You took effecting skills away from us. You gave us increase range and increase cost for a ship that does less. You allowed us to warp cloaked adding 17 mil to a ship and made us slower cloaked. To gain range we need tech 2 moduals, rigs and implants ( noobs need not apply). 3. Now that we are here give us back the 20% explosion velocity that we tested on every build and keep your range increase bull crap. I have watch every bomber fight from 50 km in after this patch and range is no longer a factor. 4. When all the large alliance are done playing with our ship I hope we can have it back. Honestly CCP your experiment has made this game not fun at all. Honestly do you think that this ship can really make a difference in your large alliance fights. Please stop pretending this change is a good one. It was not good for the over all game of eve. It makes us feel un heard and aprricated. First you are tryign to transform this into CAOD.. pathetic. Second.. Who in hell is dirty nap associates to point fingers at anyone? Third.... who in eve is any more experton SB than us or anyoen else? NO one because these new SB have less than a week in game! So shut up , if You fail while others succees in using a ship its YOUR fault and trying to diminishe the ones that succeed only makes you look more incompetent.
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2009.04.20 20:30:00 - [1354] Edited by: DNSBLACK on 20/04/2009 20:35:53 Seishi Maru, 1. you are a liar. You failed to produce this 30 man SB gang from this weekend you had some success in. That is CAOD material if i ever saw it. 2. DNA well if you dont know who we are consider that a good thing. Do me a favor go look up our killboard like i did yours and you will see what we do and who we are. Hope we never visit your home systems now that the cynos are all down. 3. We have been testing this new bomber for over a month. Except the one that hit the live patch 1.1. We are now testing on TQ LOL not SISI and now we are paying to test it. With out any hope of having input and or change we are stuck with it now. 4. Seishi Maru said "Third.... who in eve is any more experton SB than us or anyoen else? NO one because these new SB have less than a week in game! So shut up , if You fail while others succees in using a ship its YOUR fault and trying to diminishe the ones that succeed only makes you look more incompetent" We are by the sure fact this is all we do and have been doing for 2 years now. We dont need a week to feel or see the nerf our ship has taken we felt it on the first day by comparing it to the abilities we use to have. We gave up more and gained less for a role that is filled by everyship in the game if we man up a 30 man fleet. As for your second statement again you are a lair you have yet to show us your success with this new ship your so called 30 man SB fleet had. Matter fact your charcter does not have one SB kill from this weekend. now go find me the kill mails from this awsome fleet. I will grant you that it may be on another toon I just want to see this fleet. As for us failing it is CCP fault they change the ship not us. the first ship in the history of EVE to have it main weapon change completly and the ship turn up side down. I never diminish the ones who have succedded i just havnt seen your 30 man fleet yet and all the awsome kills you guys got. So to call me incompetent is off base. Now you on the other hand claiming something that never happened and producing no evidence is not only incompetent but a flat out lie. I can only pray that you stop flying my ship and go back to those awsome lag fest BS fights as in your mail from this weekend. Wait my first pray was answered I can't find a SB kill by you anywhere.
Psyco bob33	Posted - 2009.04.20 21:22:00 - [1355] Originally by: CCP Chronotis 3. Confusion over bomb use As a quick reminder since many of you are trying bombs for the first time and there has been a lot of questions over their use. They fire forwards in the direction your ship is travelling. They will travel for 15 seconds at 2,000 m/s (so 30km from your launch position) and then detonate with a 15km area of effect damage from the bomb. They will detonate regardless of your location (you can warp out if you choose). Bombs can only be used in null sec (0.0 space) due to exploit issues with low sec and delayed detonations mainly with also some focus on different playgrounds for different playstyles. Bombs which cause physical damage are resistant to the damage type they cause. So a scorch (thermal) bomb for example can resist about 6 scorch bombs and still explode itself without being destroyed but 1 electron bomb detonating before a scorch bomb would destroy the scorch bomb. Bombs now cost around 800K ISK in minerals per unit to build based on last weeks jita prices. I just have one suggestion to make bombs a bit more usefull, raise explosion velosity, this would help to increase effectiveness against moving support ships, especially frig and destroyer class. There is no reason a inty shouldn't be destroyed by a bomb no matter how fast its moving if its in the blast radius. My .02 isk
Abram Enroch	Posted - 2009.04.20 21:24:00 - [1356] Originally by: Windjammer Try this CCP. Give us back the old stealth bomber as it was prepatch. Offer the new stealth bomber as a completely different ship, different name if you like. See which bomber people prefer to fly. Signed
Isaac Starstriker Amarr Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:42:00 - [1357] Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 20/04/2009 22:42:59 Originally by: DNSBLACK Edited by: DNSBLACK on 20/04/2009 20:43:35 Seishi Maru, 1. you are a liar. You failed to produce this 30 man SB gang from this weekend you had some success in. That is CAOD material if i ever saw it. 2. DNA well if you dont know who we are consider that a good thing. Do me a favor go look up our killboard like i did yours and you will see what we do and who we are. Hope we never visit your home systems now that the cynos are all down. 3. We have been testing this new bomber for over a month. Except the one that hit the live patch 1.1. We are now testing on TQ LOL not SISI and now we are paying to test it. With out any hope of having input and or change we are stuck with it now. 4. Seishi Maru said "Third.... who in eve is any more experton SB than us or anyoen else? NO one because these new SB have less than a week in game! So shut up , if You fail while others succees in using a ship its YOUR fault and trying to diminishe the ones that succeed only makes you look more incompetent" We are by the sure fact this is all we do and have been doing for 2 years now. We dont need a week to feel or see the nerf our ship has taken we felt it on the first day by comparing it to the abilities we use to have. We gave up more and gained less for a role that is filled by everyship in the game if we man up a 30 man fleet. As for your second statement again you are a lair you have yet to show us your success with this new ship your so called 30 man SB fleet had. Matter fact your charcter does not have one SB kill from this weekend. now go find me the kill mails from this awsome fleet. I will grant you that it may be on another toon I just want to see this fleet. As for us failing it is CCP fault they change the ship not us. the first ship in the history of EVE to have it main weapon change completly and the ship turn up side down. I never diminish the ones who have succedded i just havnt seen your 30 man fleet yet and all the awsome kills you guys got. So to call me incompetent is off base. Now you on the other hand claiming something that never happened and producing no evidence is not only incompetent but a flat out lie. I can only pray that you stop flying my ship and go back to those awsome lag fest BS fights as in your mail from this weekend. Wait my first prayer was answered I can't find a SB kill by you anywhere. 5. All we are asking for now that we are stuck with it are the same explosion velocity numbers 20%. This was the only number to remain constant on the test server from day one of the change up until the 1.1 patch notes our first test of the new bomber happened live after the patch. The SISI bomber was always missing somehting and we never got the full change. Is asking for 20% explostion velocity to much. and getting rid of the 10% flight time that adds nothing unless you rig it and implant your head. 6. I want to always state that we would like the old bomber back the way it was. I know I know "you are listening but you just dont agree with your pay check". Ok, you sound like Merin. Shut, the Heck, Up. Your not God On Earth, your no expert and your NOT going to get your solo-boat back. I've had about enough of people wanting it back. It shouldn't have existed in the first place. Thanks --Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart - Open
OilSlick Rick Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:46:00 - [1358] I find it funny someone actually essentially said, oh yah...30 sb fleet kicks ass. I wasn't sure if they were serious or not. 100 T2 noob ships could probably take down a battleship.
Therow	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:59:00 - [1359] CCP has, and always will do what ever it is they like. In my opinion, of which doesn't matter to ccp or any of their dev's, is that the Stealth-Bomber should have two separate ship variants. Of course there can be three cov-ops ship types for each race. But everyone knows that ccp doesn't care as long as their wallets and figures, are as fat as their hindquarters! CCP fails. Everyone who is arguing about this fails. With that, ill go jump off a bridge and light my self on fire.
Stahanov Iv	Posted - 2009.04.20 23:07:00 - [1360] Well today we found new one usefull SB aspect - horde of SB can kill POS in W-Space (standart fleet cant enter and go back, too big mass) ... well it was booring (about 3 hr) and risky we have 42 before and 31 return :)
smokeydapot	Posted - 2009.04.20 23:12:00 - [1361] Edited by: smokeydapot on 20/04/2009 23:14:08 Hold on for one dam second why shouldent a SOLO boat be in eve what the hell is wrong with going round on your own ? Every other dam thing in this game relys on others so why shouldent people who want to fly alone ( since they pay its there choice what they do ) and have the old SB back ? I totaly agree the new bomber is a fail and a bad one at that, this new SB relys on others and in this game ( where clousters will randomy close and kick you ) that is not a good thing. You could have the best fleet in the game and still loose because the game crashes, clusters clos and kick you or through one of the other errors that crop up when they want. Personaly i think a dev got poped by a SB and decided this is enougth and screwed the thing over. I have no intrest in using this new SB and its a dam shame and personaly dont give a f*** about anyone thinking this is a good step forward just wait till your favrout ship gets a total overhall and im guna be there pusshing for it. Que the comments.........
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2009.04.20 23:27:00 - [1362] Isaac Starstriker, 1. if you think Iam looking for a solo boat you are way wrong. Once agian a person who speaks without doing his research. Please if you would have been on the test server you would have seen how we fight. if you go find our KB you see the tactics we use. So beofre insulting me, please educate yourself to the history and use of this ship. 2. I never claimed to be "GOD". But why is it when a person and a group dedicates them selves to flying one ship for 2 years. Then developes a corp and entire alliance around that ship they should just shut up and go away. I dont consider myself a eve god but I do consider myself an authority on the Stealth bomber as do alot fo others. So when i give a comment it is not based on some emotional response or willy nilly ooooh they just change the ship lets go try it. I speak from a position of authority and expertise. Do i claim that of every ship no. Hell i couldnt even tell what to fit on 90% of the ships in this game. You dont see me posting in other threads as much as this one why? Cause I dont care NO. Cause I cant speak from a place of authority. The problem is if you guys would have tried this ship out beofre the nerf and applied the same approach as we did you realize, the nerf this little ship just took in its over all ability and cost. Maybe the fact you sucked at soloing in the old SB is what made it useless and now it is a blob mobile and you feel safe and the ship is great. Maybe the biggest change is the fact you are a team player now and that is what has changed and the old SB abilities werent the problem. All Iam saying is there has never been a post in this forum that said the old SB was over powered stop the solo killing maddness. What we have is a dev who wanted it to do a different role. in most games that means they are going to add material not nerf or change existiing material. i can only hop that some day they touch a ship that you enjoy and work hard to perfect. Only then you will feel the sting we are feeling. This change is like making dedicated hac pilots train a different gun type and starting over. 3. So how long is your list of ship that should have never been invented. Is it every ship you got your arsh kick by. The sad part is the SB never was a solo boat. It was a dumb pilot killer i will give you that. Any pilot not moving may have fallen pray to a cloak snap shot but over all it was a ship no one want except those who dedicated them selves to flying it. It was the singel best noob trainer in the game cause the cost and effective alpha. When flown in groups of 20 or more it would melt BS in 15 secs ( was that not enough of a BS killer). It could fend off others but if it got caught it paid the price. Now we have a ship that has less ability and and cost twice as much. We were told we would have input but what we got was "We are listening we just dont agree". I know we are done with this ship the devs have moved onand now they are just replying every so often to save face. They have already moved on and the ideas in this thread will soon be lost as soon as they move to the next ship. We will ask and ask and type thread after thread and it will fall on def ears as most of this thread has. CCP Chronotis has taught me one thing and that is not to waste my time testing anymore. They are the DEVS and they know best and just pray that the ship you like is being used in its intended role or they will want to fix it for you weather you like it or not. Black
Tvaishk Suzuki Long Night Industries	Posted - 2009.04.20 23:35:00 - [1363] Originally by: DNSBLACK I will have you a price list and the bomber price are not going down take a look at the chart. The cost of the Mani is now stable at 50 mil that is up from 15 mil a month ago. Rigs are around 25-30 mil ( the price is increasing). implants and tech 2 fittings you can add another 30 mil. This list is off the top of my head I will fly to jita and price out a full build for youwhen I get home. The sad part is the price has increased but the ship ability has decreased. 50 Mil where are you I could ship some over to your market and make a 100% profit given there cost here. The Mani is maybe 3/4 mil higher than the Nem here but still. --- Lieutenant, Mixed Metaphor Appliance Man
Onizuka GTO Caldari Macross crp.	Posted - 2009.04.21 00:56:00 - [1364] Originally by: Isaac Starstriker ....It shouldn't have existed in the first place. Thanks --Isaac ...and finally you have shown your true colours.... While I agree that not one of us here can be truly described as stealth Bomber "Experts", DNSblack certainly does not lack the "passion". And that is something worth listening to, then what you have Issac. So go back to your "wtfpwn" ships or whatever you like to afk-solo in and go make whatever lies you do to boost your ego. ==== Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death.Good Luck
Admiral Goberius Amarr North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.21 01:55:00 - [1365] DNS I think you need to chill out. They will never take you seriously if you keep raging and overdramatizing. I.E.: A bomber hull doesnt cost 50 mil, and theres no reason to rig it really. - Gob ________ Alt of Goberth Ludwig
OilSlick Rick Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.04.21 06:42:00 - [1366] Originally by: Therow C With that, ill go jump off a bridge and light my self on fire. Tip: Do it the other way around. Trying to light a match while falling through air may be difficult.
Therow	Posted - 2009.04.21 06:57:00 - [1367] Originally by: OilSlick Rick Originally by: Therow C With that, ill go jump off a bridge and light my self on fire. Tip: Do it the other way around. Trying to light a match while falling through air may be difficult. Its the struggle that I am trying to get across by that statement.
Onizuka GTO Caldari Macross crp.	Posted - 2009.04.21 11:28:00 - [1368] Originally by: OilSlick Rick Tip: Do it the other way around. Trying to light a match while falling through air may be difficult. what century do you come from? light a match? You use a wind-proof lighter silly ==== Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death.Good Luck
Swirler Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.04.21 14:50:00 - [1369] CCP, you have taken a step in the right direction - Covert Ops Cloak usage was the only thing that would bring the ship back into use to more people. Switching to Torps was unfortunate, but understandable, as you changed the ships capabilities with adding bombs. One of the comment ors on this blog said it correct, there should be two stealth bombers now; a Close Range Bomb and Torp Version, and a Long range - no bombs but Cruise or Guns only version. You can call it a Strategic Stealth Bomber to go along with Strategic cruisers. Long Range weapons but no devastating bombs. What ever you do in the future, do not get rid of the covert ops cloak, it's the only thing that makes this ship worth using, without it, it's just too weak to justify the large cost of fittings and the ship and skills. Thank you for the speed increase while cloaked, it allows much better tactical use so you can move into position. " You will pay the price for your lack of vision." - Emperor Palpatine. Between Life and Death, there is Cryosleep
Onizuka GTO Caldari Macross crp.	Posted - 2009.04.21 15:00:00 - [1370] But why make two ships? Why make it so complicated when you can simply just make it so that the Stealth bomber can be one or the other? it opens up it's versatility, instead of the current changes that simply strangled the potential from it. From an all cloaked fleet warfare point of view, you have your scouts (recon), you have your command ship (black op) then you have your Stealth bombers which can be mixed to deal with long range anti-cruiser/frigate cruise missiles and a hard hitting battleship killing fit, but will be restricted if not in a well mixed fleet. On the other hand, perhaps you might even have your quirky fits that can do both, but at a reduce capacity that will depend on the larger stealth blob as a whole to be effective. There isn't a need to make two ships, or make a new class of ship. ==== Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death.Good Luck
CrestoftheStars Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.04.21 15:35:00 - [1371] yer ^^ well i am off. vil finde noget slik snuser rundt hehe. skal m°de din nye ven en af dagende Originally by:* DNSBLACK I will have you a price list and the bomber price are not going down take a look at the chart. The cost of the Mani is now stable at 50 mil that is up from 15 mil a month ago. Rigs are around 25-30 mil ( the price is increasing). implants and tech 2 fittings you can add another 30 mil. This list is off the top of my head I will fly to jita and price out a full build for youwhen I get home. The sad part is the price has increased but the ship ability has decreased. 30+ mill the ship, 10+ mill cloak, 8+ mill rest of fitting, 40mill rigs. (you will need rigs to get a distance where you actually have a change to escape as i have heard) -- still think the bomber needs a insane dmg and a max range of 30km. or as every one else say, make two stealth bombers, the old one and a new one as i said before, insane dmg and max 30km ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.21 18:46:00 - [1372] Originally by: Swirler CCP, you have taken a step in the right direction - Covert Ops Cloak usage was the only thing that would bring the ship back into use to more people. Switching to Torps was unfortunate, but understandable, as you changed the ships capabilities with adding bombs. One of the comment ors on this blog said it correct, there should be two stealth bombers now; a Close Range Bomb and Torp Version, and a Long range - no bombs but Cruise or Guns only version. You can call it a Strategic Stealth Bomber to go along with Strategic cruisers. Long Range weapons but no devastating bombs. What ever you do in the future, do not get rid of the covert ops cloak, it's the only thing that makes this ship worth using, without it, it's just too weak to justify the large cost of fittings and the ship and skills. Thank you for the speed increase while cloaked, it allows much better tactical use so you can move into position. 1) The bomber had bombs before the patch, though those are now more potent. 2) Guns on a bomber have been proven to be laughable. That's exactly why the Manticore used to be the king of stealth bombers as it was the only one that could mount three cruise launchers. An update changed that so that all bombers could mount three. 3) The addition of the Covert Ops II cloak is nice, but comes at a cost that is crippling. Fifteen seconds delay before you can recloak instead of being able to do it right away. Fifteen seconds is an a very, very long time. Tactics evolved to use the Improved Cloaks worked very well, though once again, not as nice as the Cov Op Cloak II does if we're not crippled by the 15 sec delay. 4) There has been no cloaked speed increase. Only an uncloaked speed increase. My bomber now does 320 m/s with or without cloak. Before the patch it did 260 m/s while uncloaked and 406 m/s while cloaked. The cloaked speed is the more important speed for a ship which depends upon a cloak to survive. Things that kept bombers alive: 1)The ability to cloak. 2)The ability to move faster cloaked than uncloaked. 3)The ability to launch missiles from a distance that put it outside of drone range, most weapon range and took intercepters a little time to cover. This range also allowed it to be aligned and moving without leaving its effective range and that meant it could insta warp when needed. 3)The ability to kill drones and frigates. Some people seem to feel that torpedos allow the stealth bomber to kill battleships. Unless in large gangs, it won't be able to do that because it will die too fast to do anything other than make the target give a condescending chuckle. If you're using large gangs anyway............the cruise missiles could kill battleships without making it so easy for the target to kill the stealth bombers. This nerf is outrageous. It, past nerfs to the game and the promise of future absurd nerfs has made me decide its time to find another game. There is a definite trend in what CCP has done. CCP has divorced themselves from their responsibilities and now makes decisions based upon how many people whine the most on the forums and in petitions. Most of the people in the game don't patrol the forums and war on them nor do they want to. We'd rather just play the game we pay for. Windjammer
DasNara Aethelwulf Blackwater Syndicate Shade Underworld	Posted - 2009.04.21 19:19:00 - [1373] I have an idea how to fix this so that I can go back to commerce raiding small ships in nullsec. You have aship class that has never had a Tech II equivalent....destroyers. I like the new build for the SB's.... we've already started working out tactics for it's use....but now there is a hole in our operational portfolio, so please give back the cruise missles for the bombers and make the destroyers the heavy bombers...both with covert ops so that we can have recon and heavy recon with our black-ops fleets. just a thought
xHomicide Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:58:00 - [1374] YAY, another stealth bomber thread. ... You ****ing douchebags.
Onizuka GTO Caldari Macross crp.	Posted - 2009.04.21 23:38:00 - [1375] Originally by: xHomicide YAY, another stealth bomber thread. What? there was another one? ==== Please note, we have added a consequence for failure.Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official test record, followed by death.Good Luck
Adivah	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:15:00 - [1376] I'd just like to throw in my 2 cents for what it's worth. This is my first forum post, but I feel I need to speak up about this. Thankfully I'm not alone in my disappointment with the recent SB changes. When CCP Chronotis posted about the new SB role, he summed the launcher changes as follows: 1. Bombers will be able to fit and use siege launchers and fire torpedoes. 2. Bombers will gain bonuses to torpedoes. 3. They will still use bombs. Now that's all fine and well, but what he neglected to mention is that they would be nerfed in that they can no longer fit Cruise Launchers. What I want to know is why the nerf? Why not have both options? Surely that would make the SB more viable. Windjammer said it best when he summed up the key aspects that kept bombers alive, particularly: 1. The ability to cloak and move faster cloaked than uncloaked. 2. The ability to launch missiles from a distance that put it outside of drone range, most weapon range and took intercepters a little time to cover. 3. The ability to kill small targets too, such as drones and frigates. What the old Cruise Missle bonuses and reduction in explosion radius gave us was long range damage that packed a good punch against small ships. While I understand that CCP want to change the role of the SB, rather just have different race varieties and give people the choice. Please please please! give us back Cruise Launchers. You can keep the new Torpedo abilites, but at least give us the option of using Cruise missiles. I used to be able to harass gate camps with a stealth bomber. That isn't as feasible any more. I don't feel as strongly as Windjammer when he says it's time to find another game. I've just recently come back to Eve for a change from other MMO's, but this is certainly a bad nerf in my opinion, and completely unnecessary when you can just give us different racial varieties of this ship and solve everyone's complaints. I hope that the right person reads this.
Admiral Goberius Amarr North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:43:00 - [1377] Edited by: Admiral Goberius on 22/04/2009 00:43:38 The new bomber is different but finally usefull in pvp. The old bomber was just a toy for a few guys who wanted to be special without any real effectivness in either fleets or solo. If you take the new warp-while-cloaked bomber and give it 100-150km range and ability to melt ceptors you are effectively creating a powerhouse. Re: feedback I have done some more gangs and the bombers works really nicely imo. I tried using bombs aswell but those seem to be lacking. Here is the problem with bombs: - 15 second delay before it explodes: anything that isnt afk will mwd out of range very easily or warp, even BSes. Using a dictor bubble wont solve the problem because the first bomb kills the bubble. Also atm bombs kill wrecks (is this intended?). - The damage is too low to kill targets. I am not talking about the single bomb, I dont expect that to be effective ofc. But even when using the max ammount of bombs (6) simultaneously, buffered ships will not die. That applies to cruiser classes too since the sig radius scales down the damage. So what happens is, you spend 10 minutes setting up all bombers so they are 30km from the target in different directions, align... uncloack - fire bomb - warp. Result: anything at the keyboard will mwd away and survive, the rest will still be alive if they have plates/hardeners, sometimes even just DCU II. Unrigged sniper BSes, some sniper hacs and stuff like blackbirds will maybe die :) So bomb aren't very viable atm. All the things that could boost bombs: - Boosting raw damage - Reducing explo radius - Boosting range of the explosion - Reducing detonation time and speed them up - Boost hp so more bombs can be used at the same time Ofc a mixture of those changes could turn bombs into overpowered mini-DDs. Thing is, it isn't clear which role you (CCP) intended for bombs. I remember it being something in the line of "anti-blob weapon". That however doesn't say if its meant against static blobs, BS only blobs, clustered blobs, or as a support against blobs while a fight is going on. Perhaps if you want them to be effective tools against high concentrations of targets only, you could consider making each bomb's damage depend on the amount of targets caught in its blast. - Gob ________ Alt of Goberth Ludwig
OilSlick Rick Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.04.22 01:23:00 - [1378] Someone previously said that using them on gate / station camps gives you a security hit as well. I would never use them if firing at a gate camp using bombs would do that.
Mirana Niranne Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc. Total Comfort	Posted - 2009.04.22 03:00:00 - [1379] Edited by: Mirana Niranne on 22/04/2009 03:04:45 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Yun Kuai On a side note, I thought we were going to have anywhere from 60km to 130km with the torps? My max range is only 35km granted i have low missile skills,but can someone fill me in as to why i have such low range? Important skills: Missile Projection - increases missile flight time Missile Bombardment - increases missile velocity With these both at level 5, then you will have the 4,500 m/s missile velocity and 13.5 second flight time. Using T2 javelin torpedoes combined with rigs can increase that to the maximum range above 100km. If I wanted to spend 100+ million on a ship that fires torpedoes and is good at killing only battleships I'd buy a F---ing RAVEN. At least I can insure it and get most of my money back when it gets primaried. And wait! A Raven has a drone bay and can field 5 warrior IIs! So it has anti frigate defenses too! Please just let me know what ship you plan to "fix" next so I can make sure I don't waste time training for it.
Drahomi'r Bozi'dar	Posted - 2009.04.22 04:29:00 - [1380] well i went out and tested my manti, range is horrid and i garaged the ship for good right now. Were under wardeck and our enemy brought in 4 SB's and 2 were dead to drones barely after they got a volley off, it was sad. Drones are the death of them now. War 2's dropped them in seconds. The other 2 bugged out of the fight without firing a shot. price doubled for the ship and they die faster than before, Yep great support role there, the range needs to be increased a bunch and jav torps are at best maybe cruise damage but cant hit small ships for crap.. Yeah this ship is dead.

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