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Cloaked FW Plexing. Now it really *IS* pointless.

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Bootius McGee	Posted - 2009.04.02 13:54:00 - [1] I saw something very interesting the other day, while wandering about in lo-sec looking for juicy cosmic anomolies. I ran across a Gallente somethingorother faction warfare complex. I warped in to take a peek out of curiosity, and saw 5 battleships idly going round an icon, and a bar underneath counting down time. There was one other person in the system, a member of the Caldari militia. Now, I have done some inquiry. Had the person left the complex, the timer would have stopped. The timer was running, meaning he was in the complex. He was not visible. It doesn't take a genius to deduce that he was cloaked, safe and protected from the opposition battleships. Now, much has been made of FW plexing in this forum as to the merits, and the uselesness, meaninglessness, and what not, and I must say, as an outsider, that if one can conquer a complex by sneaking in with a cloaked ship, I must side with those who say it is fail, broken and in desperate need of some overhaul. Where is the challenge in sitting cloaked, watching a timer? You aren't even fighting the rats. Sorry, but that is really, really lame.
Mistress Jeanette	Posted - 2009.04.02 14:08:00 - [2] yeah if that is indeed what was happening...supreme lameness.
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.04.02 14:23:00 - [3] I've tested this and you are now able to plex CLOAKED /o\. Bug report has been submitted. And I'm sure it is not just the Caldari who are doing this. Oh the joys of plexing.. LOL
MirrorGod Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.04.02 14:36:00 - [4] For this and over 9000 other reasons, thats why I've taken my lot out of FW. Epic fail is epic [center]
Unfamed II Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.04.02 14:45:00 - [5] I hope all cloak bug abusers get some sort of ingame aids or have it already. Originally by: Sandslinger of CA So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
Squidly	Posted - 2009.04.02 14:52:00 - [6] This is not news because the faction warfare representative CSM ankhesentapemkah before she left the Gallente Militia for the Caldari in a fit of pouting proclaimed it as known by CCP as a valid tactic along with her method of plexing that was even more brazen like sitting in the plex in full view immune to the enemy npc by virtue of standing so doing doing enemy plexes without killing the rats and not even cloaked is the ultimate fail as I can see it and this is a person who represents us to ccp so no wonder fw is such fail
Louis deGuerre Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2009.04.02 15:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Squidly This is not news because the faction warfare representative CSM ankhesentapemkah before she left the Gallente Militia for the Caldari in a fit of pouting proclaimed it as known by CCP as a valid tactic along with her method of plexing that was even more brazen like sitting in the plex in full view immune to the enemy npc by virtue of standing so doing doing enemy plexes without killing the rats and not even cloaked is the ultimate fail as I can see it and this is a person who represents us to ccp so no wonder fw is such fail I find this truly shocking. As a veteran Gallente plexer (yes, they exist) I would never resort to such extremely lame tactics. I do often run as my long range fitted dessie is not very well suited for PVP, but if a frigate enters my plex without an MWD I'll try to take him out. And sometimes they take me out because I linger a bit too long What is this crazy thing that the NPCs won't shoot you if you have high standings ? I don't get that at all. I'm regretting my vote for ankhesentapemkah now. Plexing cloaked FOR SHAME !!!
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.04.02 15:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Louis deGuerre I'm regretting my vote for ankhesentapemkah now. Plexing cloaked FOR SHAME !!! You are now at least one degree of significance less of an idiot than you were for voting Ankhejsfn onto the CSM in the first place. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.04.02 15:41:00 - [9] Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 02/04/2009 15:47:00 Originally by: EVIL SYNNs I've tested this and you are now able to plex CLOAKED /o\. Bug report has been submitted. And I'm sure it is not just the Caldari who are doing this. Oh the joys of plexing.. LOL Yep I found this out over a week ago, bugreported it and kept it quiet otherwise. But now the word is out. Originally by: Squidly This is not news because the faction warfare representative CSM ankhesentapemkah before she left the Gallente Militia for the Caldari in a fit of pouting proclaimed it as known by CCP as a valid tactic along with her method of plexing that was even more brazen like sitting in the plex in full view immune to the enemy npc by virtue of standing so doing doing enemy plexes without killing the rats and not even cloaked is the ultimate fail as I can see it and this is a person who represents us to ccp so no wonder fw is such fail Bull, I have never made use of the cloaking bug nor told anyone but CCP of it's existence. Standings are a different matter and are working as intended. ---
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.04.02 16:04:00 - [10] There is a bug allowing cloaked ships to keep a timer running, has been there since Apo was released, reported and acknowledged as far as I know. A separate bug which has been "live" since FW was introduced is the timer running after a warp-out. Not easily reproducible and intermittent at best, also reported and acknowledged but CCP has no idea what causes it so are probably hoping it automagically vanishes on its own Most everything about plexing is bugged and/or pointless when you get right down to it, they make great battleground type areas so it is all good if you ask me
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.04.02 16:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida A separate bug which has been "live" since FW was introduced is the timer running after a warp-out. Not easily reproducible and intermittent at best, also reported and acknowledged but CCP has no idea what causes it so are probably hoping it automagically vanishes on its own Yes that one is annoying too, if you have to warp out because of pirates and come back to find the plex has already completed. Or how about the bug that it keeps stuck in capturing but doesn't capture. ---
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.02 18:37:00 - [12] OPs story isn't very clear, that 5 battleships, are you sure that not even one of them was from the caldari or gallente militia (or a corp that was in the militia) ? Even if that was a gallente system and they were gallente, you'd see the timer running (backwards this time). If it really is possible to cloak-capture, this must be a bug. I expect CCP to fix this ASAP and punish the bug-abusers with a demotion in rank. CCP should act fast, anything else is a lack of professionalism.
Murashu Agony's End	Posted - 2009.04.02 19:31:00 - [13] I saw another strange bug this week with the plex timers. I warped into a medium Caldari plex in my hound and locked onto the Caldari Ishkur pilot sitting on the button. He warped away with his drones still out, although I was still 90k away lol. The timer continued to tick down as if he was still at the button so I popped each one of his drones. As the last one died the timer stopped ticking. So although he was no longer in the plex it was recognizing his drones as him being there. I think capturing a complex while cloaked is more fair than hiding behind NPC faction standings. Atleast being cloaked 10k from the beacon there is a chance to be bumped and uncloaked so that the NPCs will defend thier beacon. Sitting in the middle of enemy NPCs that will not engage you due to faction standings offers zero risk and needs to change. T1 frigates capturing enemy major complexes solo is just wrong IMO. Murashu Agony's End
Val Erian Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2009.04.02 19:51:00 - [14] Edited by: Val Erian on 02/04/2009 19:52:00 Yes, Unfortunetly this BUG has appreared since the last patch .It has been reported by numerous people and petitioned. Under certain conditions the timer will keep running while cloaked. THIS HAS NOT BEEN THE CASE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF FW. IT IS A CLOAKING BUG SINCE THE LAST UPDATE. I put that in capital letters for the usual trolls about plexing so its clear it is a recent bug. CCP needs to wake up and fix this or declare it an exploit ASAP>
Zanco Ceal Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.04.02 20:57:00 - [15] WOW - covert opps here i come
Molly Milli0ns	Posted - 2009.04.02 21:38:00 - [16] But wouldn't fixing this actually require CCP to alter some FW-related code? I hear there's laws against that. Otherwise it would have happened already, rite?
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.04.02 22:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Murashu T1 frigates capturing enemy major complexes solo is just wrong IMO. Alledgedly, T1 crapfit frigates can already speedtank the Amarr major plexes and possibly the Gallente ones as well. And any frigate can defend a complex of any size and gets more standing for it than an attacker does. ---
Xia Kairui	Posted - 2009.04.03 06:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Originally by: Murashu T1 frigates capturing enemy major complexes solo is just wrong IMO. Alledgedly, T1 crapfit frigates can already speedtank the Amarr major plexes and possibly the Gallente ones as well. Yepp, I've seen that in Agoze a while ago. So basically a frigate orbitting sites without ever firing a shot can take over a whole star system. Some kind of military, eh? IMO FW needs to be trashed and overhauled. But that would mean CCP has to admit they made mistakes and the players were right.
Dictum Factum Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.04.03 08:39:00 - [19] I am beginning to understand the plexing "success" of the opposition.
Unbound	Posted - 2009.04.03 10:45:00 - [20] Don't really see how this is any different than speedtanking a plex... did plenty of big plexes in my AF with an AB... 800m/sec at 25km from the dot... nothing would hit me, and on the rare occasion my trajectory would put me in the line of fire, one or two hits didn't kill me... plenty of time to rep before next hit... easiest thing I have ever done in EvE... Of course it helps when there are no players around to mess it up :)
Murashu Agony's End	Posted - 2009.04.03 15:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Alledgedly, T1 crapfit frigates can already speedtank the Amarr major plexes and possibly the Gallente ones as well. Quote: Yep, I chuckle everytime I see a thread from the Caldari militia patting themselves on the back for "winning" FW. Murashu Agony's End
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.04.03 18:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Murashu Yep, I chuckle everytime I see a thread from the Caldari militia patting themselves on the back for "winning" FW. Just as the Caldari Militia chuckle everytime they consistently beat you at the farce of plexing and on the field of battle? Galente Militia were heavily into plexing at one point and chestbeated about thier success. Now the tables have turned and suddenly the accomplishment (irrelevance and all) isnt eual to that enabling the **rells of yesteryear? Originally by:** CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.04.03 18:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Murashu Yep, I chuckle everytime I see a thread from the Caldari militia patting themselves on the back for "winning" FW. Just as the Caldari Militia chuckle everytime they consistently beat you at the farce of plexing and on the field of battle? Galente Militia were heavily into plexing at one point and chestbeated about thier success. Now the tables have turned and suddenly the accomplishment (irrelevance and all) isnt eual to that enabling the **erels of yesteryear? Originally by:** CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.04.03 18:50:00 - [24] Originally by: Murashu Yep, I chuckle everytime I see a thread from the Caldari militia patting themselves on the back for "winning" FW. Just as the Caldari Militia chuckle everytime they consistently beat you at the farce of plexing and on the field of battle? Galente Militia were heavily into plexing at one point and chestbeated about thier success. Now the tables have turned and suddenly the accomplishment (irrelevance and all) isnt equal to that enabling the **erels of yesteryear? Originally by:** CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.04.03 19:02:00 - [25] Originally by: RedSplat Originally by: Murashu Yep, I chuckle everytime I see a thread from the Caldari militia patting themselves on the back for "winning" FW. Just as the Caldari Militia chuckle everytime they consistently beat you at the farce of plexing and on the field of battle? Galente Militia were heavily into plexing at one point and chestbeated about thier success. Now the tables have turned and suddenly the accomplishment (irrelevance and all) isnt equal to that enabling the ****erels of yesteryear? Wasn't that just FOOM, and then they left FW? Also, posting once is enough :)
Murashu Agony's End	Posted - 2009.04.03 19:36:00 - [26] Originally by: RedSplat Galente Militia were heavily into plexing at one point and chestbeated about thier success. Now the tables have turned and suddenly the accomplishment (irrelevance and all) isnt equal to that enabling the ****erels of yesteryear? Sorry must have been before my time in FW. I'm just referring to the last few weeks that I have been here. If some Gallente Corp was doing that "yesteryear" as you refer to it, then I have negative knowledge of it. Murashu Agony's End
AshenShugar01 Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.04.08 11:19:00 - [27] Like Val said CCP needs to make a decision about this. Its lame yes, boring certainly but it does work. I've done it, I do it, I've seen no less then 5 Caldari doing it... infact it was one of them taking 3 plexes off me cloaked that taught me how it was done. If its a new game mechanic of some sort... well, i dont know what to think about that. Will it bring more people out plexing, I guess it will, but will it make it more meaningful? I doubt it... not that plexing is meaningful anyway. Please CCP declare it an exploit or not, let us know what is happening with this...
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.04.08 12:01:00 - [28] Edited by: TraininVain on 08/04/2009 12:04:51 Confirming Gallente militia pilots have been abusing this.
Selous Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.04.08 12:33:00 - [29] This was done to me last night. I was capturing a major plex. squid buzzard warps in and cloaks up b4 i get close enough to target it. Countdown timer changes to `contested`. Complex becomes uncappable by me/gallente.
Unfamed II Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.04.08 14:09:00 - [30] Some nights back I was listening to dark rising ts how one of them bragged about doing this for a week now. He seemed to be pretty proud. Just saying. Originally by: Sandslinger of CA So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
Firkragg Blue Labs Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.08 14:50:00 - [31] bugs in my eve?
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.04.08 20:54:00 - [32] Originally by: Unfamed II Some nights back I was listening to dark rising ts how one of them bragged about doing this for a week now. He seemed to be pretty proud. Just saying. I have learned to take anything I hear on our ts highly dubiously. The Dark is Rising...
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.04.08 21:33:00 - [33] This 'cloak bug' is lame and should be fixed, same as 'high standings bug'. But both of bugs does not have really big effect on how fw is going to end. It may be easier to capture plexes, but both are useless when enemy enteres plex and start to capture it.
Atraxerxes Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.04.09 03:59:00 - [34] I haven't tried this but if indeed this is the case I can't even begin to say how much CCP has dropped teh ball with FW. AX "Green isn't a good color for us. I think we'll paint this region BLUE."
Peter Wheatstraw Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.04.09 15:04:00 - [35] It would seem to me that the simple fix to this is very straightforward, logical and really beyond reasonable argument; a plex can not be capped by opposition unless and until the timer has run down AND all the NPC rats are dispatched. If you can speedtank AND kill the rats, good for you! If you can cloak AND kill the rats, minmitar slaves will line up to bear your children. Bottom line, opposition needs to eliminate the enemy, not just sit there hiding from them or running from them for some set period of time.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2009.04.09 15:11:00 - [36] Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 09/04/2009 15:11:39 Originally by: Peter Wheatstraw It would seem to me that the simple fix to this is very straightforward, logical and really beyond reasonable argument; a plex can not be capped by opposition unless and until the timer has run down AND all the NPC rats are dispatched. If you can speedtank AND kill the rats, good for you! If you can cloak AND kill the rats, minmitar slaves will line up to bear your children. Bottom line, opposition needs to eliminate the enemy, not just sit there hiding from them or running from them for some set period of time. Wise man speaks truth. Edit : Your sig made me laugh out loud at work.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.04.09 15:56:00 - [37] What is this 'bug' exactly?
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.10 04:37:00 - [38] I seriously hope this is only a bug. Because it is the exact opposite of what needs to happen to plexes. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Squidly	Posted - 2009.04.13 01:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri I seriously hope this is only a bug. Because it is the exact opposite of what needs to happen to plexes. Its no bug the devs had to come up with a way for the faildari to capture plexes so this is the solution they can already run away from the gall rats long enough to cap a plex but even that was too hard it seems so the devz being so pro caldari and anti gallente came up with this opps-we-made-mistake so the caldari could cloaky plex with impunities becuz they fail at regular plex and the always run like girls from fleet battle unless they outnumber 10 to one
Angry Fist Minmatar Tribal Core	Posted - 2009.04.16 21:27:00 - [40] Alas, I just tested this after the latest patch and the cloaking trick does seem to work. I've reported it and hopefully we'll get a definitive answer on it's exploitiness soon. It's hard enough to motivate pilots to plex as it is, but this just kills it stone dead.
Vincent Death Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2009.04.16 23:14:00 - [41] Originally by: Squidly Its no bug the devs had to come up with a way for the faildari to capture plexes so this is the solution they can already run away from the gall rats long enough to cap a plex but even that was too hard it seems so the devz being so pro caldari and anti gallente came up with this opps-we-made-mistake so the caldari could cloaky plex with impunities becuz they fail at regular plex and the always run like girls from fleet battle unless they outnumber 10 to one Because no-one in the Gallente militia is cloak-plexing. The proper name for a social system based on political freedom is capitalism.
Teras Menac Gallente Action Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.16 23:53:00 - [42] This could actually be solved by having a plex be a small POS where you put up a small POS to seize it. Let the faction provide it. The idea that players need to fund the war effort for the empires is stupid in and of itself. But give some kind of 'flag' that can be placed essentially. Just orbitting a timer is ******ed beyond belief. I couldn't believe how cheesy that was the first time I ran a plex.
Snake O'Donell Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.04.17 02:09:00 - [43] Anyone know if this bug was fixed with the latest patch?
AshenShugar01 Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.04.17 09:25:00 - [44] They didnt fix it, confirm cloaked plexing still runs the clock. :( I've seen lots of squids doing it, as well as a few of our guys too. Cant say I'm happy about it but that seems to be the way it is.... Makes plexing pretty 'soft' i must say ....
Val Erian Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:19:00 - [45] Nope, I tested it and its not fixed. Did have some interesting new twists tho. a Caldari militia came to the timer while it was running cloaked and it started runnning for him instead of stopping for both. There are a couple of other things that dont happen correctly in the plexs while cloaked to. Real issue is that it was reported to CCP weeks ago. They obviously do not care.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.04.17 13:22:00 - [46] insert profanity here ---
Squidly	Posted - 2009.04.17 14:16:00 - [47] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 17/04/2009 13:30:29 insert profanity here I'm at it, making some direct phone calls now as angry mails do not seem to help. Oh PLEASE. Counting on YOU to get anything worthwhile done is futile. All you seem to be good for, besides sitting next to a button in a hostile system capping plexes while painting your nails thanks to "standings" keeping you from being targeted by the rats, is a constant wailing and moaning about how you don't get enough "respect" and how you aren't just adored and worshiped to a level of your liking. The entire community will be oh-so-blissfully-glad when your tenure as "CSM" has ended and we can get someone who will represent us without a narcissistic agenda.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.04.17 15:46:00 - [48] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah I'm at it, making some direct phone calls now as angry mails do not seem to help. You are so horribly disingenuous Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Droog 1	Posted - 2009.04.17 16:54:00 - [49] CCP knew about this a long time ago and they still haven't fixed it or declared it an exploit. Lame.
Droog 1	Posted - 2009.04.17 16:57:00 - [50] Edited by: Droog 1 on 17/04/2009 16:57:17 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 17/04/2009 13:30:29 insert profanity here I'm at it, making some direct phone calls now as angry mails do not seem to help. Ask them to fix the way standings work in plexes as well. You know what I'm talking about.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.04.17 20:25:00 - [51] Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 17/04/2009 20:27:15 Originally by: Droog 1 Ask them to fix the way standings work in plexes as well. You know what I'm talking about. Actually, I did. And they said that it is working as intended. Makes perfect sense too. 1) NPCs dont want to engage capsuleers unless they have to (CCPs explanation). 2) It takes months to grind the standing back from minus whatever it is after all the promotions you get, so the faction would surely recognize all your hard work. 3) Defenders can just sit at the beacon too and don't have to deal with 'invading' spawns (maybe that should be changed). 4) The Caldari and Minmatar can (solo)speedtank almost everything in a T1 frigate, while the Amarr and Gallente need to use duo-inties or assault frigs. ---
The Jackhammer Unity Thru Aggression Unity Thru Aggression.	Posted - 2009.04.17 22:24:00 - [52] Edited by: The Jackhammer on 17/04/2009 22:28:05 Show FW some love CCP .... Mmmmm, The Jackhammer Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.04.18 11:45:00 - [53] Ridiculous that this bug hasn't been fixed yet. Speed tanking a plex, whilst potentially irritating for those unable to do it, still offers the opportunity for someone else to come along and kill the person running the plex. Doing it cloaked is just plain broken. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
Droog 1	Posted - 2009.04.18 11:47:00 - [54] Edited by: Droog 1 on 18/04/2009 11:58:02 Edited by: Droog 1 on 18/04/2009 11:54:46 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 17/04/2009 20:27:15 Originally by: Droog 1 Ask them to fix the way standings work in plexes as well. You know what I'm talking about. Actually, I did. And they said that it is working as intended. Makes perfect sense too. No it doesn't. NPCs in Complexes should attack anyone who is not in their Faction. Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah 1) NPCs dont want to engage capsuleers unless they have to (CCPs explanation). Surely NPCs should, at least, engage capsuleers in the opposite Militia as opposed to some random neutral. You have joined State Protectorate and are therefore a traitor to the Gallente. The Gallente Navy should shoot you on sight. Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah 2) It takes months to grind the standing back from minus whatever it is after all the promotions you get, so the faction would surely recognize all your hard work. That's your opinion. Mine is that standings shouldn't be counted when you join a Militia because it results in lame tactics that you and others employ to gain more Medals and Occupancy. You should be seen as a traitor and treated as such. Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah 3) Defenders can just sit at the beacon too and don't have to deal with 'invading' spawns (maybe that should be changed). That's because the defenders are part of the same Faction/Militia as the NPCs in the plex. Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah 4) The Caldari and Minmatar can (solo)speedtank almost everything in a T1 frigate, while the Amarr and Gallente need to use duo-inties or assault frigs. What does that have to do with people abusing standings to gain Occupancy and Medals? I don't see how players in the Gallente Militia can shoot you but the NPCs won't. Anybody not involved in abusing the standings can see the problem. Why can't you? You have an incredibly selfish view on this subject which is hardly surprising seeing as how it benefits you. I can't wait until your time in the CSM is up and you return to the pre CSM Ank.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2009.04.18 12:48:00 - [55] While expected, the lack of FW love is sad. Still don't know exactly what the standings trick is, but participating in Faction *War* without having to fight is just wrong. Finally, someone should make a really cool sig for me.
Peter Wheatstraw Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.04.19 11:46:00 - [56] Edited by: Peter Wheatstraw on 19/04/2009 11:50:26 Originally by: Louis deGuerre While expected, the lack of FW love is sad. Still don't know exactly what the standings trick is, but participating in Faction *War* without having to fight is just wrong. The "trick" is this: If your standings with the enemy faction are high enough ( over +2, I have been told ), you can go into an enemy plex and sit on the button while the enemy NPC utterly ignore you, no cloak needed. If no actual enemy FW player happens along while you are doing this, you will sucessfully close plex after plex with absolutely zero risk. Sorta shoots the "risk vs reward" theme of the game squarely in the left arse cheek, don't it? And we have been told by our CSM, who has used this tactic to obtain the highest medal levels now in two seperate warring factions, that it is "working as intended". If that is realy the case, then I would suggest Caldari and Amarr FW pilots immediatly go and run missions for Sisters of Eve, thus gaining the required "don't shoot" standings with both the Gallente and the Minmitar militia so that the entire Caldari and Amarr FW pilot base can avail themselves of this "working as intended" mechanic. Gallente and Minmitar pilots, sadly, you are SOL, because no such 3rd party loophole exists affording you the same oppourtunity regarding the Caldari and Amarr factions, you are forever borked against them. So much, also, for any semblance of "balance". Is it any wonder that the general pod pilot community sees FW as fail? It is as the Emperor's New Clothes. Come, now, CCP. The "fixes" are obvious and simple. 1. Make capping plexes profit with Loyalty Points. 2. Make capping enemy plexes reqire the elimination of the enemy NPC. 3. ( Bonus Item ) Make non-FW pilots who engage in aggression inside a plex go GCC to all FW pilots for 30 days. ( wishful thinking )
Ten Bulls Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.19 12:38:00 - [57] Originally by: Peter Wheatstraw Gallente and Minmitar pilots, sadly, you are SOL, because no such 3rd party loophole exists affording you the same oppourtunity regarding the Caldari and Amarr factions, you are forever borked against them. Ammatar derived standings are +7.2 to Amarr, and +3.6 to Caldari
Peter Wheatstraw Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.04.19 12:51:00 - [58] Originally by: Ten Bulls Originally by: Peter Wheatstraw Gallente and Minmitar pilots, sadly, you are SOL, because no such 3rd party loophole exists affording you the same oppourtunity regarding the Caldari and Amarr factions, you are forever borked against them. Ammatar derived standings are +7.2 to Amarr, and +3.6 to Caldari If your adjusted standings with Amarr AND Caldari are below -2, you can NOT run missions for either, and are forevermore borked with both factions. BUT You can be a full -10 after adjustments with Gallente and/or Minmitar, and you can run missions for Sisters of Eve and fully restore standings. This is not news, it has been the subject and complaint of many a post and topic. If one were conspiracy minded, one could see a bit of favoritism by CCP to certain factions, and against certain factions, in nearly every aspect of the game. If one were conspiracy minded, of course.
Ten Bulls Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.20 02:05:00 - [59] Originally by: Peter Wheatstraw Originally by: Ten Bulls Ammatar derived standings are +7.2 to Amarr, and +3.6 to Caldari If your adjusted standings with Amarr AND Caldari are below -2, you can NOT run missions for either, and are forevermore borked with both factions. BUT You can be a full -10 after adjustments with Gallente and/or Minmitar, and you can run missions for Sisters of Eve and fully restore standings. If you are -10 with Amarr and Caldari you can still run missions for Ammatar and fully restore standings.
Carnelian X	Posted - 2009.04.20 03:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 17/04/2009 20:27:15 Originally by: Droog 1 Ask them to fix the way standings work in plexes as well. You know what I'm talking about. Actually, I did. And they said that it is working as intended. Wow Just Wow Two Time CSM member with her arm right up to the shoulder in obvious imabalance which this time happens to be in her favour. Who would have though it These people need to be removed from positions of power over the rest of us ASAP. There also needs to be an official method of impeaching these people once they have been voted in.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.04.20 09:58:00 - [61] Originally by: RedSplat Gallente Militia were heavily into plexing at one point and chestbeated about thier success. Now the tables have turned and suddenly the accomplishment (irrelevance and all) isnt equal to that enabling the **erels of yesteryear? I've been in the Gallente militia since the start of FW, and they have never** given plexing anything more than a cursory acknowledgement, so if there has been any chestbeating, it certainly hasn't been the majority, as the majority didn't care. Also, there is the fact that if both sides have been chestbeating, then at least the Gallente did the plexing 'old skool' and actually did it without resorting to exploiting bugs, which didn't exist at that point. Most of the Caldari preening has been occurring post-Apocrypha, which is when this 'cloak plex' issue came to light, which now casts a shadow over all of their achievements in this area. Hopefully, the Caldari are just as keen to resolve this issue in order to help re-establish their reputation, and prove that they have done this the proper way, rather than exploiting bugs. I'm not saying there isn't anyone doing this on our side, and there probably is, but the boasting is hollow when there is a measure of doubt as to the veracity of it. By the way, I'm not actually anti-Caldari, only anti those who have been doing a lot of gloating recently. It shows a lack of class and grace, and is only antagonistic (much like smack, which is ignored by anyone with any sense). I don't like to see it on my side either, and I will tell people not to rub it in. Those Caldari who bring the fight without smack and without gloating over their enemy's losses are fine by me, and I hope they keep battling.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.04.20 10:47:00 - [62] Originally by: Peter Wheatstraw 3. ( Bonus Item ) Make non-FW pilots who engage in aggression inside a plex go GCC to all FW pilots for 30 days. ( wishful thinking ) I like this idea, and it makes sense. If a pirate attacks a militia member, it should be seen as an offence against the whole militia. Just as an aggressor will go red blinky for a whole fleet when attacked, then a pirate should become a valid war target. It always seemed a little against the grain that pirates are free to attack anyone in lowsec, and yet a pirate that is well-known to the militia cannot be attacked until he aggresses. The downside of this will be that it may add complexity to the rules system that may add to the lag (but as I am not accustomed to the system construction, I cannot say with any authority).
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.04.20 11:14:00 - [63] Cloaky plexing has now been possible for a quite long time and no systems has been conquered by using this method, so it can not be big a problem.
Pride NL The Legendaries	Posted - 2009.04.20 11:57:00 - [64] Funny thing is, NPC's always know where you are and will (slowly) approach you. Even when cloaked. So shooting the npc's is faster and easier then hide & seek. No One Better
Droog 1	Posted - 2009.04.20 12:19:00 - [65] Originally by: Bad Messenger Cloaky plexing has now been possible for a quite long time and no systems has been conquered by using this method, so it can not be big a problem. It is still a problem and it needs fixing along with the standings bug. It would take a CCP employee 30 seconds to post in this thread and declare Cloaked plexing an exploit. If CCP havn't declared it an exploit and havn't fixed it I take it that they are happy with the way it works and maybe I'll see how many plexes I can Cap in my SB. Maybe if we all did it CCP might wake up.
Xenon WarChild	Posted - 2009.05.02 04:42:00 - [66] Hmm seems to be a lot of whining. Caping a plex while cloaked is NOT an exploit. It is a tactic. I'm not playing your version of FW.
Droog 1	Posted - 2009.05.02 09:17:00 - [67] Has this been fixed yet?
Gabriel Darkefyre Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.02 12:51:00 - [68] Originally by: Xenon WarChild Hmm seems to be a lot of whining. Caping a plex while cloaked is NOT an exploit. It is a tactic. I'm not playing your version of FW. EVElopedia - Capturing FW Dungeons Just to quote the relevant part, under limitations. Originally by: EVElopedia Being cloaked will not count towards the timer. Therefore, if you're cloaked and the timer is running then the system is not working as intended. And taking advantage of a part of the game that isn't working as intended is an Exploit by Definition. Perhaps you heard of the last time something wasn't working as intended, was taken advantage of as a result and resulted in This? --------------- Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs
Sillas Cov Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.03 14:33:00 - [69] Originally by: Ratchman Also, there is the fact that if both sides have been chestbeating, then at least the Gallente did the plexing 'old skool' and actually did it without resorting to exploiting bugs, which didn't exist at that point. Most of the Caldari preening has been occurring post-Apocrypha, which is when this 'cloak plex' issue came to light, which now casts a shadow over all of their achievements in this area. I'm not saying there isn't anyone doing this on our side, and there probably is, but the boasting is hollow when there is a measure of doubt as to the veracity of it. Ratchman Bro I have plexed a for 5 months with the core group of Caldari plexers and this whole cloaked for the plexing win issue is NOT even on our radar of tactics. NOT AT ALL. Period. Your comments create suspicion where none is warranted, and effectively insult the hard work and fun, cool, pvp we have had in the plexes these past months. 99.99% of the Caldari plexes have been taken without this exploit... count on that. Consider that maybe our Chest beating may be motivated by the love of the game...?? and well because we wanted to get more Gals involved out of respect and hope for more pvp?? There is no doubt.... Fac war needs to be fixed by CPP! THAT is the only issue that needs to be given attention. Please seriously think about your posts before you hit send. Onward Sillas
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.05.03 15:49:00 - [70] Originally by: Sillas Cov There is no doubt.... Fac war needs to be fixed by CPP! THAT is the only issue that needs to be given attention. I agree. There is no point spreading senseless rumours and false accusations here. CCP needs to fix this issue ASAP but even though I did everything that I could do by the book, CCP just doesn't seem to care about FW. ---
Xianbei	Posted - 2009.05.04 19:22:00 - [71] Originally by: Sillas Cov this whole cloaked for the plexing win issue is NOT even on our radar of tactics. cough bul1sh1rts cough
X Gallentius MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.05.04 20:20:00 - [72] Originally by: Xianbei Originally by: Sillas Cov this whole cloaked for the plexing win issue is NOT even on our radar of tactics. cough bul1sh1rts cough cough agree cough - wcs'd frigs aren't part of their game plan either. ;) Both sides use cloaked frigs, but tbh, the scan probe launcher introduced in Apochrypha + plex re-spawn after dt is the key. You can cover an entire constellation in about 10 minutes with one or two, so plexing efforts have been amplified to just after spawn times. Get your Perv megablob to area of interest right after downtime when Gallente don't have numbers. Romp through systems. Cap plexes. Squids win. Number of re-spawns the rest of the day are considerably less than right after downtime and in fact squids pretty much don't bother with them. They are empty the rest of the day. I've been wandering through Southern Placid during one of the re-spawn times pretty regularly the past week. No squids found anywhere except Bad Messenger and his alt Don Goldspoon afk in Dastryns waiting for the next after downtime re-spawn.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.05.05 00:12:00 - [73] Originally by: Pride NL Funny thing is, NPC's always know where you are and will (slowly) approach you. Even when cloaked. So shooting the npc's is faster and easier then hide & seek. No they don't and no it's not. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.05.05 00:16:00 - [74] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 05/05/2009 00:18:05 Originally by: X Gallentius Number of re-spawns the rest of the day are considerably less than right after downtime and in fact squids pretty much don't bother with them. They are empty the rest of the day. I've been wandering through Southern Placid during one of the re-spawn times pretty regularly the past week. No squids found anywhere except Bad Messenger and his alt Don Goldspoon afk in Dastryns waiting for the next after downtime re-spawn. Same experience here. So I did some plexs cloaked. One of them was in OMS with about 5 WT in system. None paid me a visit. Good thing I have a lot of pot on hand. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2009.05.11 17:52:00 - [75] Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 11/05/2009 17:59:52 This cloaked plexing remains a rampant problem, as exploited by Gallente side. I have multiple screenshots now with caldari plexes being captured by Gallente federation with 1 wt in local. Nobody is visible in overview but timer keeps running because a cloaker if near it. Often these people uncloak and warp out when we enter plexes. These people whom I have images of are: Zach Donnel of Ghost-Busters Vtreka of Old Legionnaires Hussain of Shadows of the Federation Cant we do something to these people? GM's answer my petitions by saying "Contact us when you witness it and we come". Well....it would be nice if we could actually get GMs there on moments notice, especially those who answered the petition. As it happens, they are not online or unavailable when this happens. Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Val Erian Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2009.05.11 19:41:00 - [76] Quote: This cloaked plexing remains a rampant problem, as exploited by Gallente side. As usual you somehow miss the Caldari plexers doing this. But tell me. Has CCP declared this an exploit? I havn't heard about it yet. It should be but they have ignored my petitions about it. Yet you claim they answer yours? And stop whining about it ? As your Master says it really hasn't affected anything has it?
Joshamee Gibbs Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.11 19:45:00 - [77] Edited by: Joshamee Gibbs on 11/05/2009 19:46:15 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 17/04/2009 20:27:15 [blahblahblah] 1) NPCs dont want to engage capsuleers unless they have to (CCPs explanation). Then presumably as part of the relevent faction's navy they would be under orders to engage all enemy ships on sight, and a discipline system to deal with those that don't, ect. And if that is the case, why do pirate frigates happily engage my battlecruiser in belts, if navy frigates, surely with better, more reliable ships will not engage a destroyer in a plex? Quote: 2) It takes months to grind the standing back from minus whatever it is after all the promotions you get, so the faction would surely recognize all your hard work. The faction would recognise you as betraying them, which explains why navy rats should shoot at you if you jumped ship from one militia to another. If you're a high-ranking pilot then if you swap sides then you're too much of a valuble 'asset' to simply leave in the hands of the enemy. Quote: 3) Defenders can just sit at the beacon too and don't have to deal with 'invading' spawns (maybe that should be changed). This, however, could be a workable idea to balance things out. EDIT: Although these were posted a while ago the discussion seems to have skipped by them when counter-arguments could have been made.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.05.11 19:55:00 - [78] Originally by: Ratchman Originally by: Peter Wheatstraw 3. ( Bonus Item ) Make non-FW pilots who engage in aggression inside a plex go GCC to all FW pilots for 30 days. ( wishful thinking ) I like this idea, and it makes sense. If a pirate attacks a militia member, it should be seen as an offence against the whole militia. Just as an aggressor will go red blinky for a whole fleet when attacked, then a pirate should become a valid war target. It always seemed a little against the grain that pirates are free to attack anyone in lowsec, and yet a pirate that is well-known to the militia cannot be attacked until he aggresses. The downside of this will be that it may add complexity to the rules system that may add to the lag (but as I am not accustomed to the system construction, I cannot say with any authority). We are already perma-GCC to all of the FW ... what else do you want ?; pop-up paperclips that tell you what pressing F1 will do ? --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
AshenShugar01 Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.12 00:57:00 - [79] Damar keep your toys in the cott and read the rest of this thread clearly CCP's silence on the matter is really to blame. I really wonder if they have simply lost interest in giving FW some loving and want to push people to 0.0 when they get disillusioned with it. All it would take is one GM to state whether its an exploit or not and it'd be settled, better yet fix the game mechanic to make it impossible to do, there has been a patch since the issue was raised why was it not fixed if its an exploit?? Then Bad Messengers got it right cloaked plexing hasnt changed the tide for any side in FW. Gallente continue to lose systems due to disinterest and the fact that we are outnumbered almost 2 to one. Also Caldari plexing is well organised, nicely done. If were talking about 'exploits' u dont hear Gallente moaning about some of the squid hi sec tactics... pooling the NPC navy at a ss giving them free reign over the system. Surely thats FW not working as intended? If were naming names how about Mackers UK and about 6 other Caldari I've seen doing it?? anyway, once again ..... Please CCP declare it an exploit or not, let us know what is happening with this... How many Caldari does it take to take a plex? Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots... apparently
Draco Rosso	Posted - 2009.05.12 01:44:00 - [80] Originally by: AshenShugar01 Damar keep your toys in the cott and read the rest of this thread clearly CCP's silence on the matter is really to blame. I really wonder if they have simply lost interest in giving FW some loving and want to push people to 0.0 when they get disillusioned with it. All it would take is one GM to state whether its an exploit or not and it'd be settled, better yet fix the game mechanic to make it impossible to do, there has been a patch since the issue was raised why was it not fixed if its an exploit?? Then Bad Messengers got it right cloaked plexing hasnt changed the tide for any side in FW. Gallente continue to lose systems due to disinterest and the fact that we are outnumbered almost 2 to one. Also Caldari plexing is well organised, nicely done. Thanks for the tip. If were talking about 'exploits' u dont hear Gallente moaning about some of the squid hi sec tactics... pooling the NPC navy at a ss giving them free reign over the system. Surely thats FW not working as intended? If were naming names how about Mackers UK and about 6 other Caldari I've seen doing it?? anyway, once again ..... Please CCP declare it an exploit or not, let us know what is happening with this...
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn	Posted - 2009.05.12 06:15:00 - [81] Edited by: Pytria Le''Danness on 12/05/2009 06:15:33 Originally by: Damar Rocarion GM's answer my petitions by saying "Contact us when you witness it and we come". Don't count on it. Slow-trekking into L1 plexes with interceptors has been classed as an exploit very fast and they actually moved the gates further away from the site to make it not feasible. They did NOT move the gates to L1 FW missions though, and when I caught a pilot doing it, took screenshots and petitioned it no GM turned up although my petition was answered within the time it took the pilot to enter the plex. And since I sent a reply "Don't bother coming any more now, he fled as soon as he saw me sitting in the mission with my destroyer" the GM answered something like "Ah, great, then I don't have to do anything. Petition closed." There never was a reply to my frustrated "And what if the guy continues to exploit elsewhere?" Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
Joshamee Gibbs Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.12 12:25:00 - [82] GM's, do your job. you know, the one us eve subscribers expect you to do? At least give us confirmation on whether cloaked plexing is an exploit or not.
Flip Reverse 24th Doom Crusade	Posted - 2009.05.27 13:42:00 - [83] Originally by: Joshamee Gibbs GM's, do your job. you know, the one us eve subscribers expect you to do? At least give us confirmation on whether cloaked plexing is an exploit or not. I'm glad I found this topic, and i agree with Joshamee please let us know. Is this an exploit or not? If it is then please sort out the speed tanking issue too, as it's a little unfair that our plexes can be speed tanked and their's can't.
praznimrak Gallente Level Up	Posted - 2009.05.28 01:42:00 - [84] Hmmm..Let me tell you all one more time.... FW IS FAIL. Thx for listening

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