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Corny Flakes
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.05.05 09:14:00 -
[151] - Quote
A logical reason besides the generall lust to destroy is profits.
1)Marketmanipulation: By keeping miners from mining certain minerals or ice or whatnot, big alliances & corps can make A LOT of money. It also increases the cost of dem mining ships, so if you know something big is going to happen like lets say Hulkageddon you can make some nice profit building, buying and selling dem minerships or certain minerals and lots of other stuff at the right time.
The fact that highsec mining 'potentially' influences the profit of corps and alliances in many ways makes them a target. This is part of the sandbox system. You may not like it but you influence mineral prices, thus have impact on every single player in the game which in turn they may not like or abuse to increase their wealth.
2) It can be extremely profitable suiciding miners if you know what you are dooing.
The reason for this is that great numbers of miners are not hard to find in highsec. They are not prepared for an attack, they don't expect trouble and they fly ships worth gold sometimes. This makes them much easier prey than low or nullsec miners who may have friends waiting to kill you or may even react fast enough to survive and in addition are not as easy to find. |

betoli
Morior Invictus. Ethereal Dawn
22
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Posted - 2012.05.05 09:59:00 -
[152] - Quote
Its not a question of whether peoples play style should be protected, its a question of whether the risk/reward of certain play styles is imbalanced.
Personally I think miners have some imbalance as compared to mission runners - we have not seen a mission-runner-geddon have we? Why is that? Could it be that missioning platforms (cheaper than hulks) are extremely hard to gank, whilst delivering greater rewards (current mineral price changes asside) from a non-market driven isk faucet? Why are highsec mission runners so confident of undocking in 2 billion faction fit ships - they get 24 hour notice before anyone can kersplode them - in contrast a hulk miner gets about 5 seconds.
All game play styles should have similar risk/reward balance. No one should be immune, but everyone should have a level playing field. |

Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
68
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Posted - 2012.05.05 10:12:00 -
[153] - Quote
The reason is: It forces interaction between players. Im told this is a good thing. |

Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
148
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Posted - 2012.05.05 11:49:00 -
[154] - Quote
betoli wrote:Its not a question of whether peoples play style should be protected, its a question of whether the risk/reward of certain play styles is imbalanced.
Personally I think miners have some imbalance as compared to mission runners - we have not seen a mission-runner-geddon have we? Why is that? Could it be that missioning platforms (cheaper than hulks) are extremely hard to gank, whilst delivering greater rewards (current mineral price changes asside) from a non-market driven isk faucet? Why are highsec mission runners so confident of undocking in 2 billion faction fit ships - they get 24 hour notice before anyone can kersplode them - in contrast a hulk miner gets about 5 seconds.
I'm sure you could kill a 2 billion faction fit ship if you attacked at the right time. They won't necessarily be fit for that much tank if they're made for earning ISK. But that would require more planning and effort. Ganking hulks is way easier.
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Meat Explosion
Waffles and Sin
1
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Posted - 2012.05.05 16:35:00 -
[155] - Quote
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:Meat Explosion wrote:Because this annoying thread exists, I shall kill a miner in OP's honor. YOU SEE WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!!!!!! I shall make a toast in your honor brave soul.
Because I am a man of my word:
shooty
Why do you make me do these things? I dont like to listen to the voices in my head. They tell me to kill miners, but I resist. WHY DO YOU MAKE ME DO THESE THINGS???
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6416
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Posted - 2012.05.05 16:41:00 -
[156] - Quote
ohno riceagain wrote:really? look at the numbers. if 70% of the player base is in hi sec, why the baseless attempt by CCP to move peeps to low sec? Because the numbers don't show that 70% of the player base is in highsec. They show that 70% of the characters are in highsec, which can quite easily be interpreted as only 30-40% of the players being in highsec. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Bane Necran
459
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Posted - 2012.05.05 16:45:00 -
[157] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Because the numbers don't show that 70% of the player base is in highsec. They show that 70% of the characters are in highsec, which can quite easily be interpreted as only 30-40% of the players being in highsec.
Travel through hisec and every system is full of people. Travel through 0.0 and it's largely empty.
Can't explain that.
Oh, wait, you can. Most of the players are in hisec. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4036
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Posted - 2012.05.05 16:46:00 -
[158] - Quote
betoli wrote:missioning platforms (cheaper than hulks) [...] undocking in 2 billion faction fit ships
tell me all about 2bn hulks "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4038
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Posted - 2012.05.05 16:47:00 -
[159] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Tippia wrote:Because the numbers don't show that 70% of the player base is in highsec. They show that 70% of the characters are in highsec, which can quite easily be interpreted as only 30-40% of the players being in highsec. Travel through hisec and every system is full of people. Travel through 0.0 and it's largely empty. Can't explain that. Oh, wait, you can. Most of the players are in hisec.
I've seen much larger numbers in local channels in 0.0 than in Jita. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |

Bane Necran
459
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Posted - 2012.05.05 16:48:00 -
[160] - Quote
Andski wrote:I've seen much larger numbers in local channels in 0.0 than in Jita.
Sure, for the occasional blob war. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6416
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Posted - 2012.05.05 16:50:00 -
[161] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Travel through hisec and every system is full of people. Travel through 0.0 and it's largely empty.
Can't explain that. Let me tell you about something called GǣdensityGǥ and how it relates to available volumeGǪ
Either way, it doesn't change the fact that the numbers do not say that there are more players in highsec. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4038
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Posted - 2012.05.05 16:58:00 -
[162] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Andski wrote:I've seen much larger numbers in local channels in 0.0 than in Jita. Sure, for the occasional blob war.
Yeah, you know, huge fights. User-generated content. No big deal, it's just 0.0 blobwar. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |

Bane Necran
459
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Posted - 2012.05.05 17:00:00 -
[163] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Let me tell you about something called GÇ£densityGÇ¥ and how it relates to available volume.
Shame there are no specific numbers of 0.0 systems and hisec systems, to draw such a conclusion from. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |

Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
621
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Posted - 2012.05.05 17:01:00 -
[164] - Quote
Andski wrote:Bane Necran wrote:Andski wrote:I've seen much larger numbers in local channels in 0.0 than in Jita. Sure, for the occasional blob war. Yeah, you know, huge fights. User-generated content. No big deal, it's just 0.0 blobwar.
You just blew my mind. I played chess earlier today with a friend, guess we generated a lot of content as well. \o/ I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
531
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Posted - 2012.05.05 17:10:00 -
[165] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Andski wrote:Bane Necran wrote:Andski wrote:I've seen much larger numbers in local channels in 0.0 than in Jita. Sure, for the occasional blob war. Yeah, you know, huge fights. User-generated content. No big deal, it's just 0.0 blobwar. You just blew my mind. I played chess earlier today with a friend, guess we generated a lot of content as well. \o/ No you didn't.
All the chess pieces still existed after the "fight."
You generated nothing but carbon dioxide and heat. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6416
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Posted - 2012.05.05 17:10:00 -
[166] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Shame there are no specific numbers of 0.0 systems and hisec systems, to draw such a conclusion from. Exactly, so thus we arrive at the original conclusion: the numbers do not say that there are more players in highsec. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Bane Necran
459
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Posted - 2012.05.05 17:12:00 -
[167] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Bane Necran wrote:Shame there are no specific numbers of 0.0 systems and hisec systems, to draw such a conclusion from. Exactly, so thus we arrive at the original conclusion: the numbers do not say that there are more players in highsec.
The burden of proof is on you, for saying there are more 0.0 systems than hisec systems.
"It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
531
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 17:19:00 -
[168] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Tippia wrote:Bane Necran wrote:Shame there are no specific numbers of 0.0 systems and hisec systems, to draw such a conclusion from. Exactly, so thus we arrive at the original conclusion: the numbers do not say that there are more players in highsec. The burden of proof is on you, for saying there are more 0.0 systems than hisec systems. You are unable to open the map? Proof positive. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6416
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Posted - 2012.05.05 17:24:00 -
[169] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:The burden of proof is on you, for saying there are more 0.0 systems than hisec systems. Ok, setting aside for a second that nothing of the kind was said and the absolutely absurdity of asking proof for something that has been known since 2003 and which is proven by the client and by the wiki and site like dotlan andGǪ well every source on the matter available.
High sec: 1090 Low sec: 817 Nullsec: 6023 (of which 2499 are w-space).
Go count them. Not that it matters, because the fact remains the same: the numbers do not say that there are more players in highsec. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Bane Necran
459
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Posted - 2012.05.05 17:49:00 -
[170] - Quote
Sources? "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
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Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
531
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 17:52:00 -
[171] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Sources? The ******* map? He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Bane Necran
459
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Posted - 2012.05.05 17:57:00 -
[172] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Bane Necran wrote:Sources? The ******* map?
I'm just trying to ensure it's accurate.
Even if it's roughly 3500 in 0.0 to 1000 in hisec, 0.0 still wouldn't look as dense as hisec if all those people were packed into 1000 systems. 0.0 is absolutely barren. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1436
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Posted - 2012.05.05 18:18:00 -
[173] - Quote
I tend to think it's RL politics: people are so used to using government decrees and laws to screw people they don't like while trying to benefit themselves, they bring it into MMOs. Don't like something? Get the rules changed. Can't compete? Get laws passed. Somebody having too much fun? Well, "there should be a law!!!".
This is why I hope for a global libertarian revolution that topples all governments. And do you know what we are going to do to all of you when we accomplish this?
We're going to leave you alone.
And maybe after a few years of being left alone and not having to worry about someone else using weaponized democracy to take your stuff or tell you how to live, people would be more inclined to simply enjoy a MMO instead of trying to change it.
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Digital Messiah
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
208
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Posted - 2012.05.05 18:21:00 -
[174] - Quote
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote:You fly in low and null sec that is the risk you as the player wished to make- you chose to do it, nobody twisted your arm. So stop trying to twist others arms because you chose a different play style. Concord is a buffer of safety. It is not a net. There is no such thing as griefing in EVE online. And that play style you are saying is forced on you is the play style that has always been here. Just because everyone doesn't experience it all the time doesn't mean it isn't a constant.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=105069 "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn"
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
590
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Posted - 2012.05.05 18:21:00 -
[175] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I tend to think it's RL politics: people are so used to using government decrees and laws to screw people they don't like while trying to benefit themselves, they bring it into MMOs. Don't like something? Get the rules changed. Can't compete? Get laws passed. Somebody having too much fun? Well, "there should be a law!!!".
This is why I hope for a global libertarian revolution that topples all governments. And do you know what we are going to do to all of you when we accomplish this?
We're going to leave you alone.
And maybe after a few years of being left alone and not having to worry about someone else using weaponized democracy to take your stuff or tell you how to live, people would be more inclined to simply enjoy a MMO instead of trying to change it. Make sure your political commissariat is able to "neutralize" anyone that might be engaging in "weaponized democracy". Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6418
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:23:00 -
[176] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Sources? Download the data dump and do an SQL count for each sec level.
Quote:Even if it's roughly 3500 in 0.0 to 1000 in hisec, 0.0 still wouldn't look as dense as hisec if all those people were packed into 1000 systems. 0.0 is absolutely barren. GǪwhich still doesn't change the fact that the numbers do not show that most people are in highsec. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Bane Necran
459
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:37:00 -
[177] - Quote
Tippia wrote:which still doesn't change the fact that the numbers do not show that most people are in highsec.
But it's like arguing that in the absence of actual numbers, there are more people in Russia than the US just because it's larger.
Thankfully, we have very accurate populations for each, and you can't say many people in the US are alts of Russians.
Or, are they  "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6418
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Posted - 2012.05.05 18:39:00 -
[178] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:But it's like arguing that in the absence of actual numbers, there are more people in Russia than the US just because it's larger. No, it's like arguing that just because you see people in highsec system doesn't mean the numbers show that there are more people in highsec.
GǪbecause the simple fact of the matter is that they don't.
Quote:Thankfully, we have very accurate populations for each GǪand unfortunately, we don't have any accurate player population numbers for the various sec levels. In fact, we don't even have inaccurate numbers. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Bane Necran
459
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Posted - 2012.05.05 18:44:00 -
[179] - Quote
If complete uncertainty is now your goal, instead of proving there are more people in 0.0 who are just spread out, like you originally said, i'll consider that a victory. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6418
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Posted - 2012.05.05 18:48:00 -
[180] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:If complete uncertainty is now your goal, instead of proving there are more people in 0.0 who are just spread out, like you originally said, i'll consider that a victory. GǪexcept of course that it was the uncertainty part that was said originally. You're confusing me with you GÇö you were the one brought density into the discussion. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
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