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CAiNE999
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.05.05 19:22:00 -
[181] - Quote
Eternal Error wrote:Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. This whole remove learning implants business is a poorly designed 0.0 whine.
I have NEVER heard anyone cite implants as the reason that they didn't go pvp. Even if you think that it should be less risky to lose implants, you should push for a reduced jumpclone timer or something instead.
So i expect to see you undock to defend your space with a full set of +5 impants against uncertain odds? Since you want to bring 0.0 up ill run with that.
You have 3 options
1) undock in said +5s and throw caution to the wind. add even more risk into the equation, including the cost of several hours/days of skill training unless you can afford replacements.
2) JC to a empty clone / lesser clone and lose SP/hour, for 24 hours and go fight.
3) Loggoffski/afk, que RL issues and keep your 24 hours of +5 implant learning time
All three are dumb, you should be able to undock and place your ship, mods and clone on the line. to fight for your space, we dont need another veil for people to hide behind. "oh but i cant JC for another 10 hours" being my favorite for said op/defense
I've known plenty of people to pick variants of 3, fake afk, go suddenly quiet, or just disappear. Sure there are other motives, but chancing your tasty implants doesnt help the matter.
But sure, go for 3 hour CD`s on JC. I'd take that equally.
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Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
149
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Posted - 2012.05.05 19:22:00 -
[182] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote:It takes 5.9 days to train up cybernetics 4 at 1800 sp an hour. It costs 40 million to buy a perception and willpower +4 implant which is a little over what you make doing the level 1 epic arc. http://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=10216^ price proof. There is no reason that anyone who is serious about EVE cannot spend 5.9 days in training and making 40 million isk to afford this. Attribute implants stay, the idea of removing them is one step closer to ruining the sandbox.
Its not that getting that 40 mill is difficult(although completing the entire arc as a newbie isn't a piece of **** either, everyone seems to need help with Dagan), its that once they have the implants, the risk level of engaging in pvp or exploring low and especially null and wormholes goes WAAAAY up. Then it goes down again a bit once they get jumpclones, but still not as much due to the 24 hour timer.
Same goes for average players in +4s, or veterans in +5s.
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Dapud
0
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Posted - 2012.05.05 19:30:00 -
[183] - Quote
What if you could buy more expensive clones which had implant insurance.
For instance
Clone Grade Gamma
[ ] Insure Implants?
It would have to be a flat fee otherwise you could game the system obviously... maybe like 5m ISK?
Then when you die you wake up to a clone with the implants already installed. |
Aron Croup
Incompatible Protocol Bittervet Mercenaries
59
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 21:51:00 -
[184] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:I don't see how jump clones helps with learning implants, they seem ****** for a new character wanting to get into eve.
If I have implants in a jump clone then I'm not using them to improve my learning rate, so I take my almost 1.5 mil SP self to 0.0 using my no implant clone so when exactly would I ever use the implant clone??
Only time I could see using it is when I take a break from playing the game aka go on holiday for 2 weeks in the summer? the rest of the time I'd be playing using the clone without implants, might as well never buy implants in that case.
In hindsight all the advise I read saying get implants asap seems to be terrible as it just makes me think sit in 'safer' highsec avoiding risk for x number of weeks/months/years so I can improve as quick as possible.
Well, if you're such a risk averse person that the fear of losing your implants will keep you from doing what you want to do, then yes... you should not use implants.
If you come around to it at some point I suggest you create a jump clone at some point and have a +5 learning clone for when you're in empire and a +3 learning clone to combat in. That's a pretty common approach.
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Demolishar
United Aggression
249
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Posted - 2012.05.05 22:06:00 -
[185] - Quote
To be fair, you only need two learning implants anyway and 3's and 4's are dirt cheap. 5's are still not much compared to the cost of high-end pvp ships anyway.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
92
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Posted - 2012.05.05 22:10:00 -
[186] - Quote
Are you guys serious!?!? Jump clones being the main reason NOT to go PvP cuz your in a +5 set? Rediculous!! AT BEST!!
Clone 1 +5s Clone 2 Specific +3s (Intel/mem or Percp/Will) Clone 3 Other Specific +3s (Reverse of Clone 2)
Cost of PvP is one jump clone and 15mil MAX and youll still get over 60% of your training time. Thats a T2 fitted T1 cruiser cost to put at "risk".
Hardwirings? HA!! You incursioned with an alt get some cheap 2%s. Make yourself a set of those. Total cost to you?!? A whopping 10mil for 5 hardiwrings.
So thats 25mil MAX your putting at risk for PvP. Cost of a T2 frigate with fittings. If your too poor to afford that out there in the large isk printing null machine then your too poor and stupid to play Eve period. Stop whining HTFU!!
Go spend an hour ratting and youll have your ship and your clone for the next op. Go spend an hour running some anoms or plexs. Go spend an hour in a WH with your buddies. Go run incursions for an hour. Go run L4 missions for an hour. Hell go MINING for an hour. Or just buy plex and sell it on market.
Only people I see whining about this are null bears too CHEAP to buy implants. With all that nullbear isk Im surprised they dont hand OUT implants when you get podded by now like ship replacement funds. Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |
RedLion
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
14
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Posted - 2012.05.05 22:11:00 -
[187] - Quote
Learning implants and high clone cost gotta go. this will help bring alot of new blood into the pvp scene! |
Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 22:18:00 -
[188] - Quote
Aron Croup wrote: Well, if you're such a risk averse person
It's not the risk not overly fussed about that but I do have 'issues' regarding trying to maintain the best sp/hour possible.
I'm very ocd about certain things, think I'll save and get myself a character that can do most of what I want to do and that way not worry about the idea of training. |
MotherMoon
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
623
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 23:58:00 -
[189] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:no increase jump clone timers not reduce them people shouldn't be able to bounce all over eve at the drop of a hat so what do you think my idea then?
jump clone cooldown based on distance jumped? |
Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 00:14:00 -
[190] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:no increase jump clone timers not reduce them people shouldn't be able to bounce all over eve at the drop of a hat so what do you think my idea then? jump clone cooldown based on distance jumped?
At face value I like it but couldn't it be exploited? ,
@ your home base you jump into cheap clone using that low cool down, set your medical station to your destination and pod kill yourself and then switch to a expensive clone using that low cool down again and you just do the same to return.
You completely bypass timers to jump around almost at will. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
593
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 00:22:00 -
[191] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:no increase jump clone timers not reduce them people shouldn't be able to bounce all over eve at the drop of a hat so what do you think my idea then? jump clone cooldown based on distance jumped? At face value I like it but couldn't it be exploited? , @ your home base you jump into cheap clone using that low cool down, set your medical station to your destination and pod kill yourself and then switch to a expensive clone using that low cool down again and you just do the same to return. You completely bypass timers to jump around almost at will. Clever.
Maybe clone relocation contracts should cost based on distance between current and new locations.. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1437
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 01:03:00 -
[192] - Quote
I still think the best solution would be to make pods indestructible save for self--destruct, yet ship-loss causes random implant damage or loss (power surges in the conduits, whatever).
This way, implant loss becomes a way of life for people who lose ships, but it's not a "lose it all" garuntee prospect that contributes to risk aversion.
The truly risk averse, heads full of implants, won't even bother to fly any more, or will run the baddest ships in the lowest missions, but hey some people like slamming their willies in the door too.
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Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
94
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 01:41:00 -
[193] - Quote
Burn the implants!, Burn ALL THE IMPLANTS!! |
Ryshar
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 23:10:00 -
[194] - Quote
I don't think there's anything wrong with the way implants work, or that death shouldn't be scary. I just don't like learning implants, they only exist for your character's skill queues. They don't provide any gameplay advantage, they just let you train a little faster and give you excuses to not try parts of the game.
For new players, this is not a good thing; they're much more likely to stick around if they can try a lot of things up front and find the part of the game that they like. Would it be that bad if everyone just had +3 base stats and these specific implants didn't exist anymore? |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
244
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 23:58:00 -
[195] - Quote
I saw a thread recently related to this, but with a different twist
Remove attribute implants, but leave the slots. Now those slots could be used to cross fit the hardwire implants into these slots.
Basically 1 and 6 would share the same hardwire implants 2 and 7 3 and 8 4 and 9 5 and 10
The only limitations is that you would not be allowed to fit 2 implants effecting the same attributes.
So no duel 5% heavy missile implants on 2 and 7, but you could fit one with a missile buff and the other with a shield buff or something like this.
There are several of available implants for the 6-10 slots, so there would be no need to create new implants for these slots.
This would allow players to still have the risk vs reward that they care so much about, but all the reward would be directly related to the ships you fly.
This would also allow players to cross fit, meaning they could fit some modules related to mining and combat.
As far as pirate implants, they could be redesigned. They would still only be able to fit in slots 1-5. However, now, they would give you a 1-2% bonus to a hardwire, and +1 to attributes. This would probably help to make pirate implants much more popular.
They would still have the restriction of not being able to fit a module effecting the same stats that they do.
Perhaps the amount of attribute bonus they receive would need to be thought out more than what I suggest, but regardless, if they gave the +1 attribute on top of having the +5 attributes you would now be getting standard, they would become much more wanted.
However, there are many players in Eve who have no problem going without hardwire implants in order to pvp, but are much less likely to give up their attribute implants in order to pvp because attribute implants feel more like a MUST in Eve rather than the perk CCP originally meant for them to be. |
Serith Isagar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 04:30:00 -
[196] - Quote
As a newbie I can totally agree that learning implants should be removed. Especially for newbies who want to PVP, learning implants are a big factor in favor of not playing until a character is trained up more. The cost of these implants is way too high to be risked by a newbie trying to learn PVP or joining RVB. I can't see where learning implants actually add anything to the game, all they really accomplish is getting in the way of players taking risks - PVP is expensive enough to begin with that it doesn't need another "cost" added in.
I don't really see going without learning implants as much of an option for newbies either given the long training times once you set your aims beyond being a "tackler in a frigate". |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 05:31:00 -
[197] - Quote
Okay so in ALL the other threads its all about MOAR RISK!!!! NOT ENOUGH RISK!!!! RISKLESS!!! So now that you HAVE risk due to getting podded with implants in and having a REAL loss you suddenly want it changed to LESS risk?!?!
Nullbear whine!! Either you want MOAR risk or you want LESS risk. Pick one. Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 06:11:00 -
[198] - Quote
Serith Isagar wrote:As a newbie I can totally agree that learning implants should be removed. Especially for newbies who want to PVP, learning implants are a big factor in favor of not playing until a character is trained up more. The cost of these implants is way too high to be risked by a newbie trying to learn PVP or joining RVB. I can't see where learning implants actually add anything to the game, all they really accomplish is getting in the way of players taking risks - PVP is expensive enough to begin with that it doesn't need another "cost" added in.
I don't really see going without learning implants as much of an option for newbies either given the long training times once you set your aims beyond being a "tackler in a frigate".
unless you are gtc tp plex sales funding the isk.....chances are real good you have a nice cycle of ratting/missioning nights mixed with pvp nights. Get clean jump clone, run this on pvp nights. Go back in the +x implant clone on pve nights.
System works like a charm. I did this when I went to 0.0 2-3 months into the game on the combat char. OPs and roams picked up oin weekends, friday night I logged in, jumped on clean clone and killed or be killed till sunday. Monday hop back into the good clone, and try to not get blown up Mon-thurs. If that happened....didn't want those implants anyway.
Pvp is something learned by doing. 2 nights of good quality and hopefully fun pvp in a clean clone will do you better in the long than having that extra skill level 2 days faster. My empire break has lasted long than planned....many ships skillwise I am damn good. Recon 5...got it. Minutes flown in recons, 0. I have no delusions about my actual ability to fly them.
get your flight time in what you can. Skill level 5 fixes many things, don't fix inexperence flying ships or being an idiot (I put myself in the idiot category with some wtf I am terribad loses recently). Actaully flying your ships, learning from f ups (yours or others) does however. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
183
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:10:00 -
[199] - Quote
Ryshar wrote:PvP is an ISK sink, and ships getting blown up creates demand for new ships.
FYI, this is wrong, PvP is an ISK faucet anytime someone gets even the basic insurance payout.
Its a resource/mineral/ship/module sink, and reduces supply of ships/creates more demand, which drives the ISK price up. ISK faucets also drive the ISK prices up (more ISK, same supply)
To combat inflation, you want ISK sinks and resource/mineral/ship/module faucets (such as lvl 4's being a modules/mineral faucet)
PvP helps drive inflation. If ships almsot never got drestroyed, there would be a bunch of them, massive surpluses of ships, prices would be low due to no demand (unless people just wants to stock up 100 of each ship for the heck of it), there'd be almost 0 point to the mining and manufacturing profession (maybe ice mining for running POS's and jump fuel, POS's for making T2 ammo and bases of operation for doing PvE, such as WH), everyone would fly T3s or pirate faction ships, with officer/deadspace/faction fits
It would also be pretty boring. Even if you don't engage in PvP, knowing there are people out there that may engage you regardless, adds atmosphere to the game. |
Quade Warren
Urban Mining Corp Rising Phoenix Alliance
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:10:00 -
[200] - Quote
Not sure if this has been posted or not, but didn't want to read 10 pages.
Make the learning attributes a natural function of cloning technology. The higher the quality the clone, but the better the attribute enhancement and the more expensive the clone is.
Keep the slots for the different sets, just remove the attribute bonus.
You maintain your SP learned no matter what you're doing, there is still an isk sink and you still have the opportunity to use that expensive Slave set.
Any thoughts? |
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
219
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:30:00 -
[201] - Quote
I dont know which newbies you are talking about but as I started with eve, I was always aware of the risk and cost loosing the pod and I didnt really cared much about skilling at max speed so never bothered to plug better than +3 imps - long time is long, so didnt matter if its a bit longer then long to get into one particular ship type.
Its not that the main purpose of playing eve is skilling, its having fun with ships you already are ready for. One day that long skill will be done. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
244
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:33:00 -
[202] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Okay so in ALL the other threads its all about MOAR RISK!!!! NOT ENOUGH RISK!!!! RISKLESS!!! So now that you HAVE risk due to getting podded with implants in and having a REAL loss you suddenly want it changed to LESS risk?!?! Nullbear whine!! Either you want MOAR risk or you want LESS risk. Pick one.
In order to have more people joining in on the fun of pvp some risks need to be removed.
When it comes to the fear of being podded, this is always due to attribute implants. When I've pvp'd with my implanted clone I have never once worried about the amount of money in my head, but rather the amount of training I would lose in the event of a podding.
If we wish to make pvp a bit more popular then we have to do something to take away some risks.
I feel that attribute implants is the perfect place to look.
Those noobs and even those older players might actually be willing to come out a play at least in a frig. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:59:00 -
[203] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:I dont know which newbies you are talking about but as I started with eve, I was always aware of the risk and cost loosing the pod and I didnt really cared much about skilling at max speed so never bothered to plug better than +3 imps - long time is long, so didnt matter if its a bit longer then long to get into one particular ship type.
Its not that the main purpose of playing eve is skilling, its having fun with ships you already are ready for. One day that long skill will be done.
I hate having to agree with Robert, as he is usually posting like an asshat. however this time i have to agree that if it more about obsessively doing something one way (max all the time) then the other activities that you wish to participate in may not be for you when almost everything in the game is designed expressly with tradeoffs. that includes implants.
If that is getting in the way of how you play the game, take some time to reassess how it is exactly that you are playing the game. is it to have fun? is it to train as fast as possible? is it to fly dangerously?
what are you doing and does it fit with the other types of game play that you are doing? there are only so many things you can do at once. and the tradeoffs and choices that you make are part of the game. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
244
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 17:52:00 -
[204] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:I dont know which newbies you are talking about but as I started with eve, I was always aware of the risk and cost loosing the pod and I didnt really cared much about skilling at max speed so never bothered to plug better than +3 imps - long time is long, so didnt matter if its a bit longer then long to get into one particular ship type.
Its not that the main purpose of playing eve is skilling, its having fun with ships you already are ready for. One day that long skill will be done. I hate having to agree with Robert, as he is usually posting like an asshat. however this time i have to agree that if it more about obsessively doing something one way (max all the time) then the other activities that you wish to participate in may not be for you when almost everything in the game is designed expressly with tradeoffs. that includes implants. If that is getting in the way of how you play the game, take some time to reassess how it is exactly that you are playing the game. is it to have fun? is it to train as fast as possible? is it to fly dangerously? what are you doing and does it fit with the other types of game play that you are doing? there are only so many things you can do at once. and the tradeoffs and choices that you make are part of the game.
A lot of players feel that in training faster you're not only making yourself valuable sooner in order to join or be more efficient for your corp, but you're also getting deeper into the game so that you are able to enjoy it more.
Look at it this way. As a noob you have nothing going for you. You suck at everything and what you are able to do takes so long and is so inefficient that it's a bit diffult to actually enjoy, hence why so many player quit before they get deep into the game.
Now, the players that do stick it out and are able to somewhat enjoy that low edge of the game are focused on trying to get somewhere faster so that they can enjoy the game more and have money to waist on ships getting blown up.
For most noobs their main focus is going to be getting into something where you can have the highest possible profit margin in the fastest amount of time and with the least amount of training so that you can press out the isk to be able to afford those attribute implants which will be used to train towards combat focus at a much faster rate.
In order to get to this point the fastest isk earning aspect of Eve to train for where you'll have the highest potential profit margin in the shortest amount of training is going to be mining. However, if noobs had +5 from the begining and didn't have to worry about getting those implants for faster training, thus then having to worry about losing those implants, then not only would they be able to train more focused on combat from the start, but players who know Eve and dish out advice will no longer suggest mining as the quickest way to get into Eve and make isk, but will be expressing to noobs the different ways of making isk and the different paths to train for such as amarr, or caldari, or mining, leaving more room for the players to actually start enjoying which ever aspect of the game they would prefer instead of feeling like they're being forced into mining in order to get to anything else. |
Serith Isagar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 00:29:00 -
[205] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:I dont know which newbies you are talking about but as I started with eve, I was always aware of the risk and cost loosing the pod and I didnt really cared much about skilling at max speed so never bothered to plug better than +3 imps - long time is long, so didnt matter if its a bit longer then long to get into one particular ship type.
Its not that the main purpose of playing eve is skilling, its having fun with ships you already are ready for. One day that long skill will be done.
Newbies can't do much of anything in standard PVP other then be a tackler frigate. IMO unless you happen to enjoy that sort of game play there isn't much to do aside from skill up. With learning implants, if you stop to enjoy something like RvB frigate nights and get podded, for me that's lengthening the amount of time spent in a ship type I have no real interest in. The same argument applies to faction warfare when those tweaks come in.
Jump clones aren't much help when getting them is such a long standings grind with level 1 and 2 missions. From what I've been told things go quite a bit faster with level 3 and 4 missions. But higher level missions also require better ships so again there's large incentive to "wait until you train up skills". Money making....IMO same argument, larger ships are so much more effective here then newbie frigates you may as well wait and train.
Personally I'm into DPS roles and going for battle cruisers. With the high cost of learning implants, taking the risk of being podded to PVP in a ship type I don't have much liking for doesn't make sense. I'd be jumping in to do more frigate vs frigate level PVP if I didn't have to worry about slowing down progress towards my real goal by losing learning implants. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 01:12:00 -
[206] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Okay so in ALL the other threads its all about MOAR RISK!!!! NOT ENOUGH RISK!!!! RISKLESS!!! So now that you HAVE risk due to getting podded with implants in and having a REAL loss you suddenly want it changed to LESS risk?!?! Nullbear whine!! Either you want MOAR risk or you want LESS risk. Pick one. In order to have more people joining in on the fun of pvp some risks need to be removed. When it comes to the fear of being podded, this is always due to attribute implants. When I've pvp'd with my implanted clone I have never once worried about the amount of money in my head, but rather the amount of training I would lose in the event of a podding. If we wish to make pvp a bit more popular then we have to do something to take away some risks. I feel that attribute implants is the perfect place to look. Those noobs and even those older players might actually be willing to come out a play at least in a frig. No you dont and you wont by taking away the major reason that null bears are whining in this thread to try to get implants changed. Those who DONT PvP wont even if you remove the implants and then of course the ONLY people that will benefit are the null secers that get podded frequently. Again your arguing to cater to the null bear whine....as per usual in this game.
You think that dramatically by changing the game to suit you your going to push your pseudo BS line about how its beneficial for the noob which it isnt. A noob is still pathetically challenged in ANY PvP situation just because hes a noob. Implants are NOT a major factor. I see the skill point barriers that many corps and alliances impose as being more of a factor than anything in their heads. Or the fact that instant gratification and I wants it now mentality of the majority of people is to blame. Eve is a game of months and years not minutes or days. Training skill times dictate that, nothing else. Either you wait and learn or you dont.
Noone when they get into this game wants to lose. I remember getting WTFPWNed by m0o in mara in my lil condor way back in the day. They were older, better and better trained I was a noob and therefore I sucked. There was nothing I could do. That is Eve, it is cold, brutal, dark and harsh. Its why Im still here I love that environment. By taking that away your removing the risk that having implants IS for the game. You want something faster? RISK something!! You want your cake and to eat it to. Thats horse **** plain and simple.
You want to PvP and say that by removing YOUR risk youll make it better for ALL the lil nooblets coming into the game cuz its SOO expensive. Teach them! Educate them ALL! Make it mandatory to have jump clones and to USE them. 24 hours isnt a huge amount of time to spend in a dif clone and its certainly not a huge learning loss. Now for those of you that do nothign but PvP and are whining here.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You get NO sympathy. Youll go WTFPWN some mack or hulk in a belt and laugh at their tears easy enough but YOU lose your precious training time? WHIIIIIIINE!!!
You all got more whine than a vineyard!! Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |
Ryshar
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 01:39:00 -
[207] - Quote
You (the reader) are better than a new person. That's pretty much a given unless you are truly terrible. Please keep in mind that this change benefits new pilots the most. Every reply I've seen about there needing to be more risk FOR NEW PILOTS has either completely forgotten what it's like to be new or is just bitter. Why on earth is it a bad thing to make it slightly easier for new players to get into the game? Why would you expect them to know all about jump clones or how everything they want to do even works? Unless they have friends or very quickly fell into a corp that was exceptionally helpful, they won't even know what questions to ask to find out about this stuff.
Most new pilots learn by doing and EVE should make it easier for new players to do things. This doesn't mean they should get into capitals in a week, it means they should be able to risk less to see more. Removing learning implants is a great way to do that.
I was sorely tempted to just underline every use of the phrase "new pilot," because it really seems that most of the people replying against it are somehow missing that when they read these posts. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project CORE.
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 03:00:00 -
[208] - Quote
Ryshar wrote:You (the reader) are better than a new person. That's pretty much a given unless you are truly terrible. Please keep in mind that this change benefits new pilots the most. Every reply I've seen about there needing to be more risk FOR NEW PILOTS has either completely forgotten what it's like to be new or is just bitter. Why on earth is it a bad thing to make it slightly easier for new players to get into the game? Why would you expect them to know all about jump clones or how everything they want to do even works? Unless they have friends or very quickly fell into a corp that was exceptionally helpful, they won't even know what questions to ask to find out about this stuff.
Most new pilots learn by doing and EVE should make it easier for new players to do things. This doesn't mean they should get into capitals in a week, it means they should be able to risk less to see more. Removing learning implants is a great way to do that.
I was sorely tempted to just underline every use of the phrase "new pilot," because it really seems that most of the people replying against it are somehow missing that when they read these posts.
If only there was a place in EVE, an expanse of space, fit for learning all the ups and downs of life in New Eden. A magical place where new players could learn in a low risk environment, protected by an elite police force to help prevent a bad experience, and at the very least avenge the criminals that still manage to destroy your things.
Oh wait it's called hisec. Where i spent my first 6 months and if I recall (not hard since i've only been playing for 9 months) is this safe, low risk learning environment for new players that you sujest. Cool thing about hisec is that unless your a) in your pod or b) a war target, chances of losing your pod are extremely slim, and learning implants are great for young characters when taking hours off of training times is really important. Furthermore there's plenty of places to learn pvp in hisec (Euni for example). So keep learning implants unless there is a plan to remove hisec. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
244
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 03:02:00 -
[209] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: No you dont and you wont by taking away the major reason that null bears are whining in this thread to try to get implants changed. Those who DONT PvP wont even if you remove the implants and then of course the ONLY people that will benefit are the null secers that get podded frequently. Again your arguing to cater to the null bear whine....as per usual in this game.
You think that dramatically by changing the game to suit you your going to push your pseudo BS line about how its beneficial for the noob which it isnt. A noob is still pathetically challenged in ANY PvP situation just because hes a noob. Implants are NOT a major factor. I see the skill point barriers that many corps and alliances impose as being more of a factor than anything in their heads. Or the fact that instant gratification and I wants it now mentality of the majority of people is to blame. Eve is a game of months and years not minutes or days. Training skill times dictate that, nothing else. Either you wait and learn or you dont.
Noone when they get into this game wants to lose. I remember getting WTFPWNed by m0o in mara in my lil condor way back in the day. They were older, better and better trained I was a noob and therefore I sucked. There was nothing I could do. That is Eve, it is cold, brutal, dark and harsh. Its why Im still here I love that environment. By taking that away your removing the risk that having implants IS for the game. You want something faster? RISK something!! You want your cake and to eat it to. Thats horse **** plain and simple.
You want to PvP and say that by removing YOUR risk youll make it better for ALL the lil nooblets coming into the game cuz its SOO expensive. Teach them! Educate them ALL! Make it mandatory to have jump clones and to USE them. 24 hours isnt a huge amount of time to spend in a dif clone and its certainly not a huge learning loss. Now for those of you that do nothign but PvP and are whining here.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You get NO sympathy. Youll go WTFPWN some mack or hulk in a belt and laugh at their tears easy enough but YOU lose your precious training time? WHIIIIIIINE!!!
You all got more whine than a vineyard!!
I am a high sec carebear. I am in no way trying to put less risks in null sec. I do, however, feel that those in null are FORCED to risk more or are PUNISHED for not risking more by having slower training times. I say forced and punished because just about everyone in eve, expecially those with low SP, feel that attribute implants are manditory. Now, the fact that just about everyone in Eve feels that attribute implants ar manditory, then noobs coming into Eve are essentially being punished for being noobs. Eve is already quite a bit noob negative. The difference between no implants and +5 implants is over one month of sp in a year, which is quite significant. This noob disadvantage in Eve is the reason why CCP gave them faster training times during the first month or so of time in game.
The other thing that people fail to notice is since the implementation of the PLEX program, players that are wealthy outside of game are essentially able to buy SP because they can afford those implants at all times.
I have no problem with them being able to buy a head full of 5% hardwire implants though because it doesn't make them a better player or mean they know how to fight or fit a ship.
With the way Eve is, if you haven't established yourself with good skills already, then attribute implants are a MUST, which punishes those who risk their pods, and punishes those who have yet to build themselves up enough as a character to even remotely begin to be able to afford them. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
244
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 03:21:00 -
[210] - Quote
Eli Green wrote: If only there was a place in EVE, an expanse of space, fit for learning all the ups and downs of life in New Eden. A magical place where new players could learn in a low risk environment, protected by an elite police force to help prevent a bad experience, and at the very least avenge the criminals that still manage to destroy your things.
You seem to have this thought in your head that high sec is actually safe. Sure, the odds of losing a pod outside of a wardec are quite slim, however, through things like hulkageddon (which now involves pretty much any ship being used for industrial purposes), burn jita, gallente ice capades and the everyday anti care bearing movement that seems to be going on, noobs are at much higher risk of being ganked because they don't have the skills, knowledge, or isk to be able to counter ganking. So, every time they start building up isk to get those attribute implants, they get ganked and instead have to spend that isk on a new ship.
Quote:Oh wait it's called hisec. Where i spent my first 6 months and if I recall (not hard since i've only been playing for 9 months) is this safe, low risk learning environment for new players that you sujest. Cool thing about hisec is that unless your a) in your pod or b) a war target, chances of losing your pod are extremely slim, and learning implants are great for young characters when taking hours off of training times is really important. Furthermore there's plenty of places to learn pvp in hisec (Euni for example). So keep learning implants unless there is a plan to remove hisec.
Apparently you either a) have a wealthy pocket book out of game b) have some very generous friends c) Bought a caracter in some way d) you're not a noob, this is just your newest character to which you wish to try and pull the wool over our eyes with
(least likely)e) you have such a firm understanding of Eve that you were able to make the isk for +5 implants in no time
(most likely)f) you macro mined your @ss off to get those implants really quickly
I say this because those of us that ACTUALLY remember being a noob also remember that we probably didn't make enough in the first year to buy 600mil worth of implants considering all the money we had to spend on better ships just to be able to be more profitable.
So, you're either lieing about being a noob and have been playing long enough to forget that you don't make crap for isk as a noob, or you have used one of the other suggested methods I listed in order to quickly earn isk.
I'm pretty sure that the average noob will not have enough isk in 9 months to afford +5 attribute implants. Hell, most noobs will be lucky to still be flying a hulk 9 months into gameplay because odds are they'll have already been ganked by then, if they've even been able to afford a hulk by then.
I don't know how, but you seem to have this thought in your head that noobs can afford implants on their own as soon as they come into the game. Dude, most noobs don't even know about attribute implants till a good while after they've been playing. |
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