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Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:25:00 - [1] Why did they lose their cruise missile bonuses? Granted they gained a torp bonus but now they are even more useless than before. Ok so we can warp cloaked in them but god forbid we attack anything smaller than a BS with them.... Why couldn't they just leave the bonuses there and then add the torp fitting bonus so that if we chose to we could decide for ourselves whether we wanted torps for big targets at close range or cruise for smaller or further off targets???? **** it's not like SBs were over powered to begin with but this is just hammering in the final nail on the coffin of this ship class unless bombs are now 500k a pop. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN
The Riddik	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:25:00 - [2] please, shut up
Pres Obama	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:28:00 - [3] I'm with Rid**. shut your **** face
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:28:00 - [4] Bomb prices may come down, they increased a run from 3 to 20 without changing material cost. In truth if they want cheaper bombs they should reduce the price of the bpos so more people have them. As for the changes themselves we argued in Game Development for weeks over this. Sadly to few get involved. Though perhaps the Drone changes were somewhat to appease the major problem pointed out in that thread that anyone with drones out set to agression would kill you before the torps hit....however since they don't do that now you might have a chance. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Finfamfoom	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:29:00 - [5] Originally by: The Riddik please, shut up I second this. The Motion is now on the Floor.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:30:00 - [6] Originally by: The Riddik please, shut up Why, because I liked that a SB could shoot cruise missiles and thought the only thing broken with them was the fact that a single bomb most times cost more than the hull? How about you either tell me why torp bombers are better of get your ass out my thread. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN
Mystafyre Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:30:00 - [7] You don't see the big picture. Now you can fire off covert cyno in cyno jammed system and jump in stealth bomber fleet. You can intrude cyno jammed systems with good dps. Also small POS's can be hit easily with these and blockade runners feeding them with ammo and remote repping black ops ships repping them. They are bombers, not solo tools against usefull only poorly fitted frigate class ships like they were. Now they are true bombers able to fit full rack of torp launchers AND bomb launcher.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:31:00 - [8] Edited by: baltec1 on 17/04/2009 10:32:59 Originally by: Finfamfoom Originally by: The Riddik please, shut up I second this. The Motion is now on the Floor. I agree with these statements MOTION PASSED. Let it be known that the OP should STFU about things he has no undistanding of. The offender is to be passed onto Rakshasa Taisab for further punishment.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:31:00 - [9] Motion is Passed and OP is to be Tarred and Feathered so as to increase Floor Mopping Efficiency Ratio.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Mystafyre You don't see the big picture. Now you can fire off covert cyno in cyno jammed system and jump in stealth bomber fleet. You can intrude cyno jammed systems with good dps. Also small POS's can be hit easily with these and blockade runners feeding them with ammo and remote repping black ops ships repping them. They are bombers, not solo tools against usefull only poorly fitted frigate class ships like they were. Now they are true bombers able to fit full rack of torp launchers AND bomb launcher. Yes, but how are you going to POS bash in them if your only tool is torps at your disposal? Was nice when you could get range and sit with snipers in a frig sized ship and setup jump points around grid cloaked cloaked. Granted I love torps but cruise have their place and SBs were not only good against poorly fitted frigs if deployed properly. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN

Captain Bugsquash	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:37:00 - [11] well i'm hugely impressed - all that time dedicated to a long range small ship killer - but i didn't really want to specialise in that - ccp says so. So now (having wasted 17 days training cruise V) i've got a ship that might be useful for a few seconds in a fleet battle in 0.0. Congrats ccp - what do you suggest i specialise in next (pls tell me 'cos you have no idea what it's like training something for months only to have its role totally reversed)? Changes maybe - but a virtual role reversal is just a little hard to swallow.
Mystafyre Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Schalac Originally by: Mystafyre You don't see the big picture. Now you can fire off covert cyno in cyno jammed system and jump in stealth bomber fleet. You can intrude cyno jammed systems with good dps. Also small POS's can be hit easily with these and blockade runners feeding them with ammo and remote repping black ops ships repping them. They are bombers, not solo tools against usefull only poorly fitted frigate class ships like they were. Now they are true bombers able to fit full rack of torp launchers AND bomb launcher. Yes, but how are you going to POS bash in them if your only tool is torps at your disposal? Was nice when you could get range and sit with snipers in a frig sized ship and setup jump points around grid cloaked cloaked. Granted I love torps but cruise have their place and SBs were not only good against poorly fitted frigs if deployed properly. 100 km range is not enough? And protip, DONT SIT STILL when snipers are firing on you...
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Schalac Yes, but how are you going to POS bash in them if your only tool is torps at your disposal? Was nice when you could get range and sit with snipers in a frig sized ship and setup jump points around grid cloaked cloaked. Granted I love torps but cruise have their place and SBs were not only good against poorly fitted frigs if deployed properly. Just combine them with a well balanced recon fleet and you'll see them shine. Their role as anti-BS support frigates has been emphasized. If you need to kill small ships bring something else. I like sneaky ships, and finally the SB's have become very sneaky. Big Thank you to Merin Ryskin by the way - of all trolls he has proven to be the most productive and constructive Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed resolution of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. -Weatherman
Captain Bugsquash	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:43:00 - [14] exactly - at best it's a fleet ship.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Captain Bugsquash exactly - at best it's a fleet ship. as are a load of other good pvp ships. Get freinds.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Captain Bugsquash well i'm hugely impressed - all that time dedicated to a long range small ship killer - but i didn't really want to specialise in that - ccp says so. So now (having wasted 17 days training cruise V) i've got a ship that might be useful for a few seconds in a fleet battle in 0.0. Congrats ccp - what do you suggest i specialise in next (pls tell me 'cos you have no idea what it's like training something for months only to have its role totally reversed)? Changes maybe - but a virtual role reversal is just a little hard to swallow. Every other frigate is a small ship killer. torp bomber is the only large ship killer. torp bombers will be an excellent addition to recon gangs, which are low on DPS Plus black ops shennanigens, etc.
Dirk Culliford H A V O C Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:55:00 - [17] What's this, a ship finally doing it's intended job? Say it ain't so! Seriously, if you really need range get T2 torps. If you're worried about it not being a solo pwnmobile, it's not supposed to be. Also, GL with your idea of instapopping frigs with the old cruise missile bombers, it doesn't work either As already said, the stealth bomber is the only frig designed for dps on large targets, there are other frigs for engaging frigs (ceptors, AFs) This was always supposed to be it's job, a u-boat style ship which comes in, fires a large alpha salvo against a much larger ship then slips into the shadows.
King Dave The Glenn Quagmire Finishing School for Young Ladies Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:56:00 - [18] *drools at the thought of a mix of stealth bombers and curse!! :P p.s. shutup op, they had no role before
Captain Bugsquash	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Captain Bugsquash well i'm hugely impressed - all that time dedicated to a long range small ship killer - but i didn't really want to specialise in that - ccp says so. So now (having wasted 17 days training cruise V) i've got a ship that might be useful for a few seconds in a fleet battle in 0.0. Congrats ccp - what do you suggest i specialise in next (pls tell me 'cos you have no idea what it's like training something for months only to have its role totally reversed)? Changes maybe - but a virtual role reversal is just a little hard to swallow. Every other frigate is a small ship killer. torp bomber is the only large ship killer. torp bombers will be an excellent addition to recon gangs, which are low on DPS Plus black ops shennanigens, etc. Agreed -but not really the point - which was training for a ship that had a particualr role that's not just been changed/modified - but completely turned upside down. don't have a problem with the ship in its own right.
Vincent Gaines Dirt Nap Squad	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Captain Bugsquash (having wasted 17 days training cruise V) go do mission in a raven. no longer wasted training time. yes, SBs suck. contract your manti to me for 500k ISK, plz.

Joe Martin Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Captain Bugsquash well i'm hugely impressed - all that time dedicated to a long range small ship killer - but i didn't really want to specialise in that - ccp says so. So now (having wasted 17 days training cruise V) i've got a ship that might be useful for a few seconds in a fleet battle in 0.0. Congrats ccp - what do you suggest i specialise in next (pls tell me 'cos you have no idea what it's like training something for months only to have its role totally reversed)? Changes maybe - but a virtual role reversal is just a little hard to swallow. Oh please, the stealth bomber was doing maybe 150 damage a volley to a frigate that wasn't standing still. After QR frigate killing of any kind with the stealth bomber was no longer a reality, even if you were a completely max skilled stealth bomber pilot. All this patch has done is taken the 1 thing it was actually "good" at anymore and significantly magnified it, all the while giving it a covert ops cloak. If you have a problem with these changes then you shouldn't have been flying a stealth bomber for the last 3 months. The fact that you're suggesting they in any way intended it to be a fleet warfare ship in the first place...
Dramaan	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:03:00 - [22] 4 stealth bomers from eache race and 3 Raipers is best gang you can get, this huge boost for small gangs.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:15:00 - [23] I'm going to laugh when all these people that think changing cruise to torp is now going to make SBs this great ship class over what it was before. Granted the ability to warp cloaked is awesome and I have asked for it so long ago I don't even want to think of how many pages back that want is. But torps are not going to make everyone and their mother fly SBs more so than cruise did. Bombs could be nice if the price reduction makes it worth it to deploy them, but then CCP went and made it so you now need a fleet of the same type of SB to deploy a certain damage type of bomb for the bonus. That's a minus to bombs unless everyone you know has every racial frig trained to 5. I know I'm missing a few races frig 5 due to not being interested in their frigate class ships. Also no matter how much you try to enthrall me with that of a 100km torp, it will never prove as strategic as the ability to sit at 200+km in a frig sized hull launching BS sized weapons with flybys to drop bombs. All this change did was shift SBs from frig sized ships that launch cruise missiles that no one used to frig sized ships that launch torps that no one will use. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN
Alia Ravenswing	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:18:00 - [24] The problem with the ship is the name. CCP clearly did not actually have a stealth bomber in mind. They were thinking more along the lines of a Torpedo Boat. If they want a torpedo boat (and I think it's a good idea), it needs to be a fairly fast frig (like a Rifter), and needs to be able to fire a couple Citidel Torps. Then, they have a torpedo boat. When I think of Stalth Bomber, the first thing I think of is STEALTH. That means Covert Ops Cloak II. It should have been an option on the SB from the very beginning, and the fact that it couldn't use one was the ONLY reason I did not use a SB more. I could not get to a target with stealth. 1 on 1, I could handle almost any ship if I got a surprise attack on them, but flying around, thats not the case. So Covert Ops Cloak 2, a MUST. Good one there CCP. As for the rest of it. Replacing Cruise with Torps...Dumb. Before I could use my SB to surprise attack any kind of ship and do as much damage as a torpedo, and I could actually hit any kind of ship depending on ammo. This was especially important in situations where I attack a POS, and then on my retreat I would get attacked by any type of ship. Now, I have no choice but to make a suicide run at a battleship, in a very expensive SB, or not fight anything other than a POS. CCP, if you make any more changes, have some common sense. Keep the bombs, keep the Covert Ops Cloak 2 all on the SB, everything else needs re-thought. You guys need to rethink the whol "Torpedo Boat" / "Stealth Bomber" difference. Before, I almsot never used it because of the limited Cloak abilities. Now, I won't use it because of the change to Torps instead of Cruise...Dumb!
Constantine Arcanum IMPERIAL SENATE	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Captain Bugsquash well i'm hugely impressed - all that time dedicated to a long range small ship killer - but i didn't really want to specialise in that - ccp says so. So now (having wasted 17 days training cruise V) i've got a ship that might be useful for a few seconds in a fleet battle in 0.0. Congrats ccp - what do you suggest i specialise in next (pls tell me 'cos you have no idea what it's like training something for months only to have its role totally reversed)? Changes maybe - but a virtual role reversal is just a little hard to swallow. You should have been planning on training cruise V anyway, if you want to be competent in a BS.
Angus Torg Galactic Shipyards Inc	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Captain Bugsquash well i'm hugely impressed - all that time dedicated to a long range small ship killer - but i didn't really want to specialise in that - ccp says so. So now (having wasted 17 days training cruise V) i've got a ship that might be useful for a few seconds in a fleet battle in 0.0. Congrats ccp - what do you suggest i specialise in next (pls tell me 'cos you have no idea what it's like training something for months only to have its role totally reversed)? Changes maybe - but a virtual role reversal is just a little hard to swallow. Train everything. Reduces nerfbat damage by 25% per trained race. Can we get EVE back? Please.
logeoff now	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:37:00 - [27] I agree with op though. Anyone saying that sb-s are now useful are dellusional or just nublets who have never stepped out of 1.0 system and cant even fly them.
Arcane Azmadi Caldari First Flying Wing Inc Primary.	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:38:00 - [28] I'm glad they're finally allowed to use Covert Ops Cloaks. It's something they should have been allowed to do from the start. Problem is, being forced to move in closer to attack renders them MUCH less survivable, which risks making them cost-ineffective. It's a tough ship to balance, sure enough. Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 17/04/2009 10:32:59 Originally by: Finfamfoom Originally by: The Riddik please, shut up I second this. The Motion is now on the Floor. I agree with these statements MOTION PASSED. Let it be known that the OP should STFU about things he has no undistanding of. The offender is to be passed onto Rakshasa Taisab for further punishment. Why don't YOU lot shut the ** up, huh? If you don't have anything coherent to add then just ** off, it's a free forum and he can say whatever the hell he likes. It's not like there's a limited amount of internet that he's wasting. He doesn't have to listen to anything you say.
logeoff now	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:43:00 - [29] Edited by: logeoff now on 17/04/2009 12:45:56 Edited by: logeoff now on 17/04/2009 12:44:29 Originally by: Dramaan 4 stealth bomers from eache race and 3 Raipers is best gang you can get, this huge boost for small gangs. To kill what? Battleship? You need tackling / jamming falcon + 2 bombers for that job. There is no freaking use of bombers agains ANYTHING SMALLER than battleship, think about it... So what you will be doing? Going to roam with bomb gang hoping that anyone you meet is in battleship? Hoping that there is NO broadsword/vaga/taranis/falcon at other side?
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:58:00 - [30] The missile changes that came with QR made the bombers useless against ALL targets. AB frigs/cruisers could speed-tank them and BS could shrug off the pitiful damage. The torpedo version is insanely powerful if flown right, and yes that means that it is not a solo ship. Fly them, Kill them and Die in them before making blanket statements about the end of the world, please. CCP announced at QR release their intention to refocus them and the changes have been on SiSi being discussed and tweaked for over a month. There has been plenty of time to participate in the balancing, read the Dev forum and hop onto SiSi once in a while .. besides being good for the game, it is also good fun



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