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Ecky X
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.04.28 06:55:00 -
[1]
I feel shield tanking is underrepresented in PvP, for a variety of reasons. One way to improve this is to make it possible to fit a shield transporter on a ship - currently you can't, due to insane CPU requirements.
Discuss.
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Ihara Rika
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Posted - 2009.04.28 07:09:00 -
[2]
Signed - there is also the issue of cap.
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Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.28 07:29:00 -
[3]
Agreed. Also, there's the issue of efficiency. For some reason people believe RR should be more cap and time efficient than local reps. I find this idea absolutely absurd (outside logistics, of course). ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.04.28 08:15:00 -
[4]
Large "Atonement" I Ward Projector: PG 160, CPU 112. Large "Solace" I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction: PG 600, CPU 32.
I've bolded the insane bit.
Ok, shield transporters apply their boost at the start o the cycle rather than at the end. but 112 CPU is just stupid. You could halve it and it would still be prohibitively high.
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.04.28 09:28:00 -
[5]
how about some stats when used on ships
- a tech 2 large remote armor rep uses 48tf, and 660MW,
reasonable,
- a tech 2 large shield transfer uses, 154tf, and 192MW,
yes generally shield tanking ships have more CPU than Armor tanking ships, but comparing the Raven, and the Mega,
1 LRAR takes 4% ( no skills) of the Mega's grid and 8% of its CPU,
in comparison:
1 LST takes 22% of the ravens CPU and 2% of its grid.
Reduce the CPU requirement to bring it more inline and allow shield transfers to be fitted without needing to Gimp the fit.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.04.28 09:40:00 -
[6]
hummm although i'm a healer by heart, my projectile weapons oppose any love to shield tanks unless they, or at least arties, had a boost. explo is the only thing they got going. neither emp ammo nor phased plasma are really the answer.
also, be careful what you wish for... instead of reducing cpu on transporters, they could just as easily increase the requirements of RARs ; 5/1 guardian duos (logi V) are a wee bit too powerful anyways, RR domis downright insane. in the end, tempests might become the only ones capable of fitting RR and/or matari become the RR-race in general - which would make up for the lack of pg and HP in (way too) many cases ^^ - putting the gist back into logistics |
Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.04.28 10:47:00 -
[7]
maybe this would be a good "nerf" to RR armor gangs as well, the goal of this is to get shield RR's used as much as armor RR's, and if the armor ones get nerfed then maybe there will be more place for shield tanks in fleets
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Chrysalis D'lilth
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Posted - 2009.04.28 10:50:00 -
[8]
I agree.
What i find incomprehensable about this is that a T2 Cruise fitted raven can fit 2 Large Armor Reps, but it can not fit 2 Large shield reps due to the CPU reqs.
And Caldari ships have more CPU than any others, no wonder everyone in eve armor tanks...
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Ecky X
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.04.29 22:07:00 -
[9]
So yeah, let's have a dev blog on this? It's a pretty big issue, and we can agree on where the problem is, and what the solution is.
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Thalene
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Posted - 2009.04.29 22:56:00 -
[10]
This is ******ed and needs to be fixed.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 23:15:00 -
[11]
/signed
- Contagious - |
Aurora Decima
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Posted - 2009.04.30 06:03:00 -
[12]
/signed, Devs, let's see a blog about this one. Shouldn't be hard to fix.
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JonShannow
Caldari Regante
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Posted - 2009.04.30 07:02:00 -
[13]
signed
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JanSVK
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Posted - 2009.04.30 09:07:00 -
[14]
/signed. Shield transfers require too much CPU.
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KerKnight
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Posted - 2009.05.01 04:28:00 -
[15]
/signed
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Artassaut
Minmatar Oblivion Amalgamated
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Posted - 2009.05.01 05:03:00 -
[16]
I agree with this. We had to do a really weird tank situation when we had shieldtankers in gang.
Armour-tankers fit Cap transfers for the shield-tankers, who had 2 Xlarge shield boosters and some RLARs. --- The Gate: Lol, try targeting me in a fleet fight. The Station: No U. |
Ecky X
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.05.03 03:34:00 -
[17]
CCP, let's have a thread on this.
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Marcellus Corteaz
Alt Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.03 09:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Allen Ramses Agreed. Also, there's the issue of efficiency. For some reason people believe RR should be more cap and time efficient than local reps. I find this idea absolutely absurd (outside logistics, of course).
Ahh, yes. Let's nerf teamwork and cooperation. That does indeed sound like a solid plan.
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Admiral IceBlock
Caldari Northern Intelligence BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.05.03 09:38:00 -
[19]
Did you think before posting?
Shield Transporters are FINE the way they are. Why the CPU difference? Because Shield _is_ CPU.
This too, fitts your whine; Large Armor Repairer II, 55 CPU, 2300 PG. X-Large Shield Booster, 230 CPU, 550 PG.
THIS IS OUTRAGOUS!
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Artassaut
Minmatar Oblivion Amalgamated
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Posted - 2009.05.03 10:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Did you think before posting?
Shield Transporters are FINE the way they are. Why the CPU difference? Because Shield _is_ CPU.
This too, fitts your whine; Large Armor Repairer II, 55 CPU, 2300 PG. X-Large Shield Booster, 230 CPU, 550 PG.
THIS IS OUTRAGOUS!
RLAR uses almost 1/4th the powergrid of its local tank variety. Shield Transporters use ~5/8ths the CPU of its local tank variety.
Also, do you have any viable ship fits that Transporters outside the Basilisk/Scimitar? --- The Gate: Lol, try targeting me in a fleet fight. The Station: No U. |
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.05.03 11:07:00 -
[21]
hmmm I like armour and shield tanking having their differences but atm this does seem sorta skewed. and considering the popularity of rr'ing the fact that 1 tank doesn't work is a problem that seems to big for variety between the tank types.
/signed
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Jedziah
Asshats and Alcoholics Turbo.
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Posted - 2009.05.03 11:31:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jedziah on 03/05/2009 11:36:05
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Did you think before posting?
Shield Transporters are FINE the way they are. Why the CPU difference? Because Shield _is_ CPU.
This too, fitts your whine; Large Armor Repairer II, 55 CPU, 2300 PG. X-Large Shield Booster, 230 CPU, 550 PG.
Also, do you have any viable ship fits that Transporters outside the Basilisk/Scimitar?
Our friends and our own corps have had untold success with RR Shield Tanked Hurricanes over the past few years. Fantastic ship setup.
In my honest opinion, Shield tanking should be harder to fit as when it is done correctly, it far supersedes most armour tanks within the game in both RR and Local varieties.
EFT will only give you a set of numbers. The only way to test it is to try it.
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Pvt Public7
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.03 13:10:00 -
[23]
Hey, at least fitting remote shield doesn't gimp your buffer tank. - NERF RR GANGS - More CPU on all shield ships please
Just getting ahead of the crowd. --- SWA was here IAC is a loser |
Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.05.03 14:01:00 -
[24]
Where is the problem to fit a CPU to compensate for the increased cpu requirement? You will most often fit the Shield Transfer on shield tanking ships, so the low slots are not used for tanking. You just have to sacrify one dmg/grid/cap module.
Both, shield/armor tanks have their pros and cons. CPU of shield transporters is just one of them. No one is whining because he needs two LAR while one SB does the same job. What about the Armor Boost Amplifier? Correct, there is none. What's with EANM <> Invul? Shield misses the passive version of invul, while armor lacks the active couunterpart of eanm. <fill more differences between shield and armor here>
Both concepts are balanced, slightly diffrent, imperfect and thus fun to puzzle with.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.05.03 15:08:00 -
[25]
what i would like to see is some "better" scaling though; 1 large s-95 = 119tf, 160MW, -42cap/s, 1 slot 2 medium s-95 = 178tf, 160MW, -39.6cap/s, 2 slots 8[
and/or if shield boost bonuses (cyclone, sleipnir, claymore, failstrom, uhhh hawk?, golem?) could be applied to remotes? if a pure maelstRRom might seem a bit too much... it still wouldnt compare to the dominix' current abilities :o and, well, then there's that one loki def sub *ponder* - putting the gist back into logistics |
fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.05.03 15:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jedziah Edited by: Jedziah on 03/05/2009 11:36:05
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Did you think before posting?
Shield Transporters are FINE the way they are. Why the CPU difference? Because Shield _is_ CPU.
This too, fitts your whine; Large Armor Repairer II, 55 CPU, 2300 PG. X-Large Shield Booster, 230 CPU, 550 PG.
Also, do you have any viable ship fits that Transporters outside the Basilisk/Scimitar?
Our friends and our own corps have had untold success with RR Shield Tanked Hurricanes over the past few years. Fantastic ship setup.
In my honest opinion, Shield tanking should be harder to fit as when it is done correctly, it far supersedes most armour tanks within the game in both RR and Local varieties.
EFT will only give you a set of numbers. The only way to test it is to try it.
Just because it may work for you, does by far not mean its not broken. Armor RR still works better even on Hurrics.
And no, using EFT here is as valid as testing ingame, since they are not influenced by anything like tracking.
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.03 18:09:00 -
[27]
I agree. Realistically there is only raven/rokh/mael to choose from anyway. Two of those don't even have a utility high. Scorps meh...
And then you are limited by the insane requirements. It appears to be a simple fix and long overdue. --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Ecky X
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.05.03 19:56:00 -
[28]
The Tempest makes a great shield transfer BS, and the Dominix and Typhoon can do it passably.
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.03 20:20:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ecky X The Tempest makes a great shield transfer BS, and the Dominix and Typhoon can do it passably.
I agree but slotwise they are still armor tankers. I.e. pest makes for an okish/good armor-rr boat and both typhoon and dominix are excellent at it. So not saying it can't or shouldn't be done but as far as variety goes armor tankers are already advantaged imho. --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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CrestoftheStars
Caldari Violent Force Productions
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Posted - 2009.05.04 00:34:00 -
[30]
the reason for that is that all ew takes med slots and in pvp because of the close range forced upon you from the mechanic side it is a MOST to have a scrambler/disruptor, and a webber or/and some kind of EW..
try fitting a shield tank that can keep on the target and have just a 50% survivabillity rate :P (not using t2/t3 cruisers) ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
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