Solo pvp has been "dead" for 9 years and counting.

All of your points can be adapted too except for Logi ships. I don't mind dying terribly while outnumbered, but I do find it not fun to have to fight outnumbered and not kill anything due to the enemies just blobbing with no skill logi. This simply means that I have to bypass a lot of enemy fleets and potential fun. There's a reason why multiple logi are banned in the alliance tournaments, it's lame and no fun.

Also posting in a 'shocked that DHB WIldcat turned into a bittervet' thread. The past wasn't nearly as fun as you make it out to be. 10km/s vagabonds and 7km/s battleships that aligned like intys were lame as hell. The hp buff was +50% to t1 hulls, not 2x. Old hp with current arty would be stupid.

Solo pvp has been "dead" for 9 years and counting.

All of your points can be adapted too except for Logi ships. I don't mind dying terribly while outnumbered, but I do find it not fun to have to fight outnumbered and not kill anything due to the enemies just blobbing with no skill logi. This simply means that I have to bypass a lot of enemy fleets and potential fun. There's a reason why multiple logi are banned in the alliance tournaments, it's lame and no fun.

Also posting in a 'shocked that DHB WIldcat turned into a bittervet' thread. The past wasn't nearly as fun as you make it out to be. 10km/s vagabonds and 7km/s battleships that aligned like intys were lame as hell. The hp buff was +50% to t1 hulls, not 2x. Old hp with current arty would be stupid.

ONE MORE TIME, PLEASE STOP ASSUMING THIS IS A WHINE THREAD! THIS IS A REMEMBRANCE THREAD ABOUT WHEN EVE USED TO BE A SANDBOX! K THANKS 8)

I agree with the points.

Another 2 issues are:
1) The greatly increased use of Assault ships and Faction frigates. If 3 inties came to tackle you, no real problem, just use your WarriorIIs, neuts, or just ignore their weak damage. If a Harpy, and Enyo and an inty comes to tackle you, they can tank your drones, cap boost past your neuts and do massive damage so you cannot ignore them.
This increased frigate power has reduced the ability of soloers and small gangs to engage and disengage quickly by quickly killng/neuting tackle.

2) T3 cruisers like the Tengu. If 1-2 of these turn up, it severely changes the power equation.

The impact of these 2 things may be small, but the cumulative impact of all these changes add up, making it harder and harder for solo and small gang.

I agree with the points.

Another 2 issues are:
1) The greatly increased use of Assault ships and Faction frigates. If 3 inties came to tackle you, no real problem, just use your WarriorIIs, neuts, or just ignore their weak damage. If a Harpy, and Enyo and an inty comes to tackle you, they can tank your drones, cap boost past your neuts and do massive damage so you cannot ignore them.
This increased frigate power has reduced the ability of soloers and small gangs to engage and disengage quickly by quickly killng/neuting tackle.

2) T3 cruisers like the Tengu. If 1-2 of these turn up, it severely changes the power equation.

The impact of these 2 things may be small, but the cumulative impact of all these changes add up, making it harder and harder for solo and small gang.

Why is solo and small gang PvP important? Empire building is about numbers and fleets and resources and strategy. Small time thugs mugging each other isn't important in the big picture.

I get the feeling that this is a whine thread...

Man I had a solo fight 2 days ago, then killed a supercap yesterday
I get best of both worlds mang

Anyway, the nano age was all sorts of gay crap and anyone who supports that sort of isk4win trash needs their opinion immediately discredited hth

Comments on your points:


8) Tracking Enhancers no issue at all... learn to approach the right way and then you have no problems tackling Tier 3 BC.

This one caught my eye, close range weapons hitting out to 80km with decent dps isnt an issue? really?

I have no idea what you are talking about, but so far I had no issue with approaching an Oracle or any other Tier 3 BC in an Interceptor or Assault Frigate and get it tackled. You just need to avoid flying the direct and stright way to him. Fly a proper arc and problem is solved. This includes manual piloting. T1/Faction-Frigates are naturally a different story since they do not get any bonus on MWD bloom reduction.

This one caught my eye, close range weapons hitting out to 80km with decent dps isnt an issue? really?

The op was referring to the fact that certain ships can use short range high dps weapons and still hit out to 80-100km

To hit out to >80km you need an Apoc with three optimal-scripted TCIIs, scorch, and mega pulses. An oracle that uses all three of its mids for optimal-scripted TCIIs and mega pulses gets 63.5km optimal.

hmm, what am I missing?

Oh, if you don't mind losing fully half of your DPS to falloff, you can do that in a Macharial.


And every ship that could possibly do this with close range weapons is a battleship, which is to say, expensive, slow, and with terribad tracking. But you're right. Truly sniper-pulse-apocs are the bane of small gang PVP.



The OP doesn't have the slightest idea what he's talking about.

you dont know what your talking about an apoc with 2 tracking enchancers ( know one was even talking about tracking computers) hits out to 100km just under. The abaddon hits to 76km with a 60km optimal doing 650dps without implants, and these are with supposed close range guns. Close range guns should not be hitting past 40km, they completely obselete many of the other turret systems. And the mach can hit upto 110km with close range ACs, yes you lose dps cause off falliff but close range weapons shouldnt hit that far.

You say the op doesnt know what hes talking about but his pvp track record is a lot better than yours.

Ask yourself... why do you want to fight solo or small gang fights?

Is it because your e-honor demands that you fly solo? or in small groups of elite warriors?

Is it because there is some personal crusade you hope to accomplish?

Do you wish to terrorize others weaker or less prepared than you?

Is it because your ego demands that you find ways to triumph against seemingly overwhelming odds and vaunt over your less skillful, but more numerous enemies?

Is it because there are only two people in the universe you trust, one of them is you and the other is your friend who lives within kicking distance?

Someone doesn't understand how falloff mechanics work. At optimal + falloff you deal about 40% of your paper DPS. If you're engaging at that range you might as well be using beams.

So, the Apoc is only doing this damage at 80-90km. This is one ship with one specific setup. In fact, the only ships that can do this stuff at all is the ships that get ridiculous range bonuses because they're supposed to do that.



More importantly, I'd love to see evidence that these setups are killing small gang and solo PVP. How many sniperpulseApocblobs do you really see running around?