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Ava Starfire
Skadi's Call Defiant Legacy
247
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 14:50:00 -
[121] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:1) solo pvp isnt dead, there are still a lot of ppl flying around solo for whatever reasons, you just have to pin them down or isolate them from their blob
2) solo pvp is difficult, because its MMO and people learned their chances are better when grouping together
3) people dont enjoy loosing much
thats all there is no rocket science behind this neither are certain buffs or nerfs responsible for "dead solo pvp", its human nature.
Forums munched my post.
Basically this.
Give people pre nanonerf ships, and they will still realize "Hey, 20 nanowhatevers are better than 1" |

Borealis Firestorm
Pirate Firestorm
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:00:00 -
[122] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote: 1) Nano nerf, used to be that a smart pilot could engage a larger force and have a chance to escape if he needed to. Now unless you fly minmatar exclusively or angel ships (which are the FOTM, no coincidence there) you are unable to control your fights.
2) Resulting Web nerf that came with nano nerf, Also with this is the oversized afterburner means that you need about 6 nerfed webs to even hope to slow down these ships. Also solo with 60% webs means that close range ships will have a very hard time holding anything still long enough to hit them properly.
Oh why CCP? Why did you go with the crybabies that couldn-¦t recruit Huginn pilots?
Nanoage was golden age of EVE. Cinematicly fast flying ships, lot-¦s of small gang fun. Small ships should be FAST! |

Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
355
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:12:00 -
[123] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:1) solo pvp isnt dead, there are still a lot of ppl flying around solo for whatever reasons, you just have to pin them down or isolate them from their blob
If they're solo they're not part of a blob; if they're in a blob, they're not solo.
|

Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:30:00 -
[124] - Quote
I like the people that believe solo pvp isn't dead, keep this in your head and go make some sweet videos!
It is very difficult, CCP hasnt been kind on Solo PvPers, hence why i decided to create my own corporation/alliances. I feel now it's stupidly difficult if you don't have the isk, the kit and the time to field it. I used to fly round geminate unscouted in a hyperion with no links and get good fights, Now i'd just get hotdropped or blobbed by ECM drones. It's a real shame that this game can't be fun for everyone, like it was before. -Buhhd |

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
223
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:42:00 -
[125] - Quote
dude you are playing an MMO, people learn and they also learned best way to frag a hyperion is to come with 9 other people on it.
If you want solo pvp, you just need to ensure they are solo first, or make them being solo for a moment. Thats the trick.
Hotdrop is of course not possible to foresee but wtf are you roaming solo unscouted with a hyp?? This is literally asking for a gank. |

Noisrevbus
122
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 16:40:00 -
[126] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote: I don't actually disagree with you about the problems of scale /.../ When I played FPS games, I was all about developing good strategies to dominate maps. Sure, we had individual skill, but everyone in my old FPS clan knew their role on each map. That's what being part of a good fleet in Eve is like.
I would by no means mock your idea of strategy and teamwork. Don't make the mistake of assuming that i am a solo-minded player because i take their side or aknowledge their existance. It's as with RP, i consider it quite ridiculous myself but i also aknowledge that there are people who consider that fun and that they bring life and depth to the sandbox. I enjoy the fact that they exist, as with any scale or orientation. If anything, my concern is the game being streamlined - but let's look at the rest...
Quote:The problem is that there is nothing in Eve that you can destroy by surprise that constitutes an existential threat to a 0.0 alliance /.../ Hell, you can't even dent the production of one Tech moon without the full resources of a coalition. That's a problem, but hell if I know how to solve it.
You solve it by introducing mechanics that do not rest upon volume, since volume implies more numbers or larger resources. The Deathstar-grind of pre-Dominion sovfare was beginning to outline these problems, they were aknowledged by most everyone, and yet the Dominion mechanics made that worse. It retained a hitpoint grind while introducing more form-ups.
A TCU may not have the hitpoints of a Deathstar but it is still rampantly more effective to apply more numbers or resources on it. Not on the player-interaction, but on the mechanical interaction. That is the problem.
Quote:The other problem is that nothing stops us from fighting in the same style. If CCP added objectives that small groups could accomplish, a good 0.0 alliance would still have more people who could be organized to accomplish those objectives more effectively. Let's say you got rid of POS timers - you'd just encourage global coalitions and even less political diversity. How would you propose to solve this?
That's the thing, most of us would like you to fight that way as it would enable interaction between us. Numbers should, and will always, be a factor to determine power. The problem with the current mechanics is that other factors are not in balance, to the point where they hardly help determine power at all.
I disagree with the notion that it would encourage global coalitions and less political diversity though. First of all, global coalitions already exist. We are down to 3-4 actors in sovspace proper. We have been as such for many years. The problem is that you have alot of entities sidelined or displaced out of reach, that could re-enter the scene. On a more direct note, i'd like to think the ability of more (smaller-) groups to interact with the mechanics of sov and infrastructure would result in a necessity to deal with domestic threats.
The idea is to force you to spread wide and thin to create more action, not to kill off a large alliance out of spite.
Attrition today is all about fielding numbers to timers, think about what would happen if it was about responding to a variety of more or less severe threats - while each represent some threat. Think about sov close to roaming hotspots (NPC null).
Quote:After five years of Eve, I have multiple accounts that can fly any subcapital ship with near perfect skills (and two who can fly supercaps). I'm not saying this to brag - but to point out that even I, a lowly rice-patty peasant, have enough Eve skill and RL skill to be as good as the best players I ever saw in 2008. In any ship. How would you propose to solve this?
I think you overestimate the volume of skillpoints and organisational growth. Both of us aknowledge that the lower average have improved alot, but don't make the mistake of thinking the majority of groups are on an equal tactical standing. There isn't much you need to do beyond removing the mechanics that encourages, or even demand, numbers. I've said many times that i consider the sheer PvP-aspect of amassing numbers perfectly fine. If you have people to bring on grid, bring them. I don't want perfectly even stand-up fights either. The problem is the mechanics that concentrate numbers and make bringing them on grid nearly the only matter of importance. The bit you've already said you agree with above.
Quote:small gang PvP is not dead. It's just harder to find fights you can win. And that is a fine thing by me.
This is the main crunch-point between us. I don't use some fatal terminology, but anyone can see that such PvP is growing more scarce, which also mean PvP on a whole is growing more scarce. That can't be a fine thing for anyone, even if they don't necessarily favour the same gameplay. Wouldn't EVE be an incredibly dull game if everyone would log in, pick one out of two sides and hop into their Drake? It's an extreme i truely hope we will never see, but trend is going in that direction and if i was a game designer i would be very weary - instead of excited. Even in a sandbox it is afterall i, design, who control the mechanics that define the sandbox.
It's not people adapting at fault for current trends, it's the ongoing design choices.
Let me give you an example: i'm delighted it was decided to give lowsec some attention and introduce things like POCOs.
Yet, what is a POCO? It's a hitpoint-based objective with multi-day timers. The effects that followed around them, even at such menial income, resulted in somewhat sizable engagements. We're looking at gangs of 100 and numbers or resources more fit for sovereign conquest. It's a very good example of how design-trend affect the sandbox.
POCOs are not for sporadic interaction. They do not encourage emergence. Compare to the TCU.
|

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
114
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 17:42:00 -
[127] - Quote
Ironically there is a guy with 33 solo kills this week in my alliance.
No alts, no boosters, just him and a Sabre and a gate.
|

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
197
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 20:35:00 -
[128] - Quote
Wildcat I think you should uninstall because I think you will set the world record in tears shed over a videogame if you make (yet another) terrible thread soaked with your tears.
Lets be honest. You are just buttmad you can't do what you could do in the past and you are COMPLETELY unable to adapt to the times ahead. There are still hilariously broken/overpowered strategies you could use to win fights (I'll help you out, it involves a T3 being in a system), but I don't think you are physically capable of imaging life without your +10km/s nano ships and your 200km falcon.
I await for your next tearful outbreak. |

Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1203
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 20:42:00 -
[129] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Ironically there is a guy with 33 solo kills this week in my alliance.
No alts, no boosters, just him and a Sabre and a gate.
Stressed important stuff about elite pvp  |

Joe Censored
Wag The Dog Winmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 22:05:00 -
[130] - Quote
Small gang PVP is still working just fine. If you haven't figured out how to adjust your tactics when the game rules change, then that's your own deal. |

DHB WildCat
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
85
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 02:04:00 -
[131] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:Wildcat I think you should uninstall because I think you will set the world record in tears shed over a videogame if you make (yet another) terrible thread soaked with your tears.
Lets be honest. You are just buttmad you can't do what you could do in the past and you are COMPLETELY unable to adapt to the times ahead. There are still hilariously broken/overpowered strategies you could use to win fights (I'll help you out, it involves a T3 being in a system), but I don't think you are physically capable of imaging life without your +10km/s nano ships and your 200km falcon.
I await for your next tearful outbreak.
Wow you havent seen the video I just released have you?
I can and always will adapt to the game, you sir must have been someone I have killed in the past because your hatred is unhealthy.
WildCat |

Borealis Firestorm
Pirate Firestorm
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 07:50:00 -
[132] - Quote
I want my 14079 ms Sabre back CCP!  |

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
115
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 09:37:00 -
[133] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Onictus wrote:Ironically there is a guy with 33 solo kills this week in my alliance.
No alts, no boosters, just him and a Sabre and a gate. Stressed important stuff about elite pvp 
Who said anything about elite.
Thread title was solo is dead, and this guy is solo and killing his ass off. I'm sorry someone got pewed by a 100mn Tengu again...but that really isn't my issue or concern.
Not to mention -A- is **** remember. |

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
227
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 10:58:00 -
[134] - Quote
I do a lot of solo sabre pvp too,
however this form of pvp shooting T2 transports, bombers and other cloaky **** isnt considered as "pvp" by many parties as ganking a raven with a vagabond.
Another thing is how do people define solo-pvp. Its without scouts, without boosters?? Purely 1 char or just 1 on the KM? Recently a dude from my alliance said in comms like me is not doing really solo pvp, because of my scout alts placed around the system. |

Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 09:16:00 -
[135] - Quote
Bl4ck Ph03n1x wrote:I wonder if CCP is aware of the problem... Anyone has a source of a dev saying "yes, we know it's Blob Online on are working on it" or "working as intended"?
Maybe, inferno being related to war... and with dust coming...
Based on their actions in the recent past as well as their general view of the future of EvE, they encourage large fights because it's what appeals to the most players (CCP is a business remember). 1,000 vs 1,000 looks much cooler than 1v1 or 5v5.
It has nothing to do with making a good game, because "good" to an intelligent man is not the same "good" that the common denominator thinks of. Businesses have to appeal to the common denominator, in some way, to survive. Yes, EvE broke the mold a bit, thankfully, but it can't go all the way.
I really wish it could, but I fear we'll never have a hardcore FFA space MMO that's focused on the individual level, not unless a rich billionaire decides to make it just because he can.
As for the poster above me, using alts is not going solo. It doesn't matter if the same human mind is controlling two characters, since one human brain is more than sufficient to adequately control two pilots in this virtual world the benefit is massive. |

Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
436
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 09:35:00 -
[136] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:As for the poster above me, using alts is not going solo. It doesn't matter if the same human mind is controlling two characters, since one human brain is more than sufficient to adequately control two pilots in this virtual world the benefit is massive.
Do you include scout alts in that equation? Because I'd like to know where this groundswell of "it ain't solo if you're scouted" came from. Near as I can figure it's popularity is a new thing. |

Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 09:53:00 -
[137] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:They are not doing full damage. Scorch does notably less damage than faction MF. They also are giving up damage mods for range mods, and using low-tracking pulse lasers. In fact, the tracking is especially notable because these same ships will NOT be doing full damage by close range unless the target stands still. stoicfaux wrote:Why is solo and small gang PvP important? Empire building is about numbers and fleets and resources and strategy. Small time thugs mugging each other isn't important in the big picture.
Well, I like empire building in my RTS games. I don't like it in an MMO. Who the hell wants to feel like just another number or cog in the corporate machine, in a game? It baffles me how people find it fun at all to be part of large corporation. Mfume Apocal wrote:[quote=Drakarin]As for the poster above me, using alts is not going solo. It doesn't matter if the same human mind is controlling two characters, since one human brain is more than sufficient to adequately control two pilots in this virtual world the benefit is massive. Do you include scout alts in that equation? Because I'd like to know where this groundswell of "it ain't solo if you're scouted" came from. Near as I can figure it's popularity is a new thing.
Well, "not really" is the answer. Or, I'm not sure.
It doesn't give you a direct combat advantage as long as you aren't getting boosts from it,, but it does let you avoid fights you otherwise couldn't. I guess I would sort of consider it soloing anyways, although I personally will never use an alt, in any fashion. I believe using two characters or more simultaneously is nothing short of outright cheating and the fact it's not only allowed but encouraged by CCP is beyond comprehension. |

FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 11:33:00 -
[138] - Quote
I consider soloing to be just that, one character, no scouts, no boosters. Not that I have any problem with using multiple accounts, but it isn't solo. |

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
690
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 13:23:00 -
[139] - Quote
Drakarin wrote: I believe using two characters or more simultaneously is nothing short of outright cheating and the fact it's not only allowed but encouraged by CCP is beyond comprehension. How's it different from inviting someone else and thus forming a blob? If anything, fleets should be prohibited alltogether. 14 |

Tub Chil
Heretic University Heretic Nation
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 14:51:00 -
[140] - Quote
Solo and small gang is not dead but is sure rare, even in lowsec Reason for this is obvious, people don't like to lose. more people you have more chances of winning right?
the only thing that can fox that is creating game mechanics that encourages small groups, by giving them more reward. perfect place for that is lowsec, CCP has perfect chance now, when fixing FW.
As rewards are given for plex capturing and killing of enemy milita, those rewards can scale according to gang size (just like incursions). capturing plex "costs" N LP, 10 people capturing a plex is N/10, or some other formula, I haven't thought about it really.
same could apply to theoretical pirate/anty-pirate warfare that was mentioned several times in assembly hall and can be quite good feature if done properly. |

Heribeck Weathers
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 16:51:00 -
[141] - Quote
Here is a guide to how solo pvp fundementaly works
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g306/diaboso/solo-5.jpg
was made in like 5mins so its pretty sloppy :P |

Rhealee
An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:04:00 -
[142] - Quote
I dont see why so many people ***** and moan about not finding small or solo pvp. Its really not that hard to do. And you can dovit on any level from frigs to caps. Which reminds me about number 4 from original post. I have never personally soloed a cap ship but recently i was in a rorqual + thanny vs my loki + maelstrom friend fight. Rorqual did die and we had to let thanny run away. I spent 6 months straight over the past year doing nothing but solo pvp in a loki in 0.0
Now for some reason when it comes across the enemies intell your there they run and hide or try to blob you immediately. I suggest hang out with them let them know your not the *** with the falcon alt or ecm drones, and lets be serious, whos gonna hotdrop with a t3. Not to say ppl wont. You and your handy dandy small bubble and some knowhow can very easily wrek havoc and get damn good fights. Now some of your victims Will put themselves in a position to die willingly like as bait for their fleet or try bait and fight you straight up. Most people you fight are unwilling to fight and try to escape in all sorts of ways from ecm to fake cyno to plum ejecting.
i have found that almost all my solo pvp has been me just going out on planned expeditions. But most of my small gang pvp is spontaneous like hey some nuets lets go kill these guys grab a ship quick.
Ive done a little bit of every type of pvp and i prefer small gang hang out talk and more tactical. Solo tends to get boring fast i find myself falling asleep on gates in hostile territory or watching tv or cusing up a storm because those bastards too chicken to fight even with significant advantages.
Side note i got into my first damn good cap fight last night in at least 2 years. Lost my thanny and a sabre but even after getting away i landed in safe spot just said no, **** it this will be fun. Warp drive active.
Hopefully this inspires or gives hope to some of those in doubt about small gang pvp. Its still very much alive we just have to look harder and the new terms of fair is you at a disadvantage 90% of the time. |

Intigo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 08:30:00 -
[143] - Quote
WildCat is so dumb. Why is WildCat so dumb? |

Captain Campion
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 11:51:00 -
[144] - Quote
I'll add price to the mix.
We used to be able to make small cheap gangs and set a random destination and throw ships at whatever we found.
Currently it's about twice as expensive to do that as it was a year ago. |

Aesheera
Malum Crusis
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 09:15:00 -
[145] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:Wall of Truth Agreed with practically everything here.
Those were greater days and - even tho EVE still shines - I miss them.
I still remember you, DHB, hopping into Ihakana in your Rattler/Nightmare fighting the good fights.
Heck, I even remember our Nightmare vs Nightmare in Otsela. You may not, I do. A stalemate that was, but still good enjoyment. Malum Crusis is recruiting!
FREE Merc work offered*
Details available via EVEmail or ingame convo. |

Valea Silpha
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 19:55:00 -
[146] - Quote
The reason why there is so much less small scale pvp is actually pretty simple.
Eve has matured to be more like the real world.
Fighting because fighting is fun is certainly something that exists in both, but it has become a hobby or a spectator sport rather than something that actually achieves something. Small pvp was always more about having fun than a grand plan, and thats fine. But if you want that kind of fighting you have to find other people who are of the same mind.
In real life, if you want to fight for fun, you have to go to a boxing gym or a dojo or some place thats full of people who are into fighting for fun.
Much like as in the real world, in eve people have worked out that you only fight when you have to, and if you have to, that means its important enough to win that blobbing doesn't matter. Retaining control of your techmoons or whatever is more important than a good fight.
Basically, solo pvp is obsolete in terms of galactic politics, the same way that two champions dueling in front of massed armies is obsolete in terms of modern warfare. It doesn't achieve anything, so why would anyone who doesn't specifically get a kick out of it bother to try and make it happen.
Its also worth noting that for years on end, the very people who now scream about a lack of small pvp, were tooling around low sec in big, heavy gangs murdering the ever loving **** out of everything and dropping in caps if there was any vague possibility that someone had brought enough guys to fight them. Honestly, I have no sympathy what so ever.
Mostly what people mean by 'not enough small pvp' is 'not enough small gangs for my larger, better gang to kill'. They don't want more fair fights. They want more easy victories. I can understand that its depressing to be in the middle of the food chain. The people smaller than you will go to extreme ends to not fight you, but the people above you, you don't have a hope in hell of actually fighting. Well boohooo. Maybe if you didn't wreck low sec for everyone for the past 5 years, people would be happier to come out and play. |

Kristoffon Ellecon
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
41
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 21:10:00 -
[147] - Quote
Valea Silpha wrote: Fighting because fighting is fun is certainly something that exists in both, but it has become a hobby or a spectator sport rather than something that actually achieves something. Small pvp was always more about having fun than a grand plan, and thats fine. But if you want that kind of fighting you have to find other people who are of the same mind.
Or you find a cozy spot near a bunch of nullsec carebears and have fun griefing them.
Valea Silpha wrote:Basically, solo pvp is obsolete in terms of galactic politics
Nope, see above. |

Theodoric Darkwind
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
157
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 00:43:00 -
[148] - Quote
Mac Tir wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Why is solo and small gang PvP important? Empire building is about numbers and fleets and resources and strategy. Small time thugs mugging each other isn't important in the big picture.
Some people don't want to be part of an empire. Some people prefer to wander alone or with a few small friends. It's a little narrow minded to suggest that the two styles of play cannot co-exist.
Find others interested in 1v1s and small gang fights and have gudfites. Stop whining about blobbing when you barge into sov space hunting for dumb ratters and your small gang gets blobbed. |

Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 03:39:00 -
[149] - Quote
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:Mac Tir wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Why is solo and small gang PvP important? Empire building is about numbers and fleets and resources and strategy. Small time thugs mugging each other isn't important in the big picture.
Some people don't want to be part of an empire. Some people prefer to wander alone or with a few small friends. It's a little narrow minded to suggest that the two styles of play cannot co-exist. Find others interested in 1v1s and small gang fights and have gudfites. Stop whining about blobbing when you barge into sov space hunting for dumb ratters and your small gang gets blobbed.
We actually look for dumb Null Sec F%#s that do nothing BUT blob. Seems to me the collective mentality of a group goes down the more their numbers go up. But by all means lock up and hit F1 like a good lemming. |

Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 05:56:00 -
[150] - Quote
OP, I invite you here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107690 |
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