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Kurik Chryllos Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.05 19:00:00 - [121] Originally by: Hey You We all know how you took Delve in first place. That alone makes this very different. Sov and titans have been in the game since 2003 guys.
BuIIseye Amarr Pax Amarria Corp	Posted - 2009.05.05 19:24:00 - [122] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Originally by: Hey You We all know how you took Delve in first place. That alone makes this very different. Not to mention you actually started with coalition ** in first place. Well not you. Goons. Goons didn't start coalition **, if anyone did it was BoB (blobbing up with ASCN and others to hit TRUST capital shipyards) or LV with their coalition which goons 'n co eventually destroyed. Pretty sure IRON, -G-, Ekliptika and the rest of the northern guys back in that time formed the first ever coalition.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.05 19:26:00 - [123] well all the old northern alliances were basically coalitions but they were too crappy to really count as more than one "strong" alliance
Brolo Amarr VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.05.05 19:43:00 - [124] Originally by: Will Hunter true but then you must have superior resourses or technology. Incorrect. Motivation and opportunity is more important. Superior resources are no help if they're in the wrong place. The Gulf Wars provided a few examples from ancient history. Deployment in the first was hampered because lubricating oils came from a place that had just been invaded. Multimillion ISK battlewagons are pillboxes if they break down in the sand, or can be destroyed with recycled munitions and some ingenuity. Numbers can help. Cheap frigates can destroy a Titan, or swarm a POS. If you don't have the numbers, ambush the ice miners or fuelers instead. Superior tech or resouces don't help with that if you can't mine the resources or afford the tech, or afford to protect it. Two recent examples demonstrate why resources & tech don't help. Both BoB and IRC took big hits from individuals with motive and opportunity, and now are into the attrition stage. GS knew this, but seems to have matured to a divide & conquer strategy, along with becoming a landlord. Problem with that is the battlespace changes. Instead of having the initiative about what targets to attack, where and when, you have to defend that space. The larger the space, the harder that is. Taki & Tyrrax perhaps understand these concepts, and dangers more than some Goonies do. Changes to PoS warfare could well make life more interesting, especially if it changes the dynamics of siege warfare to make attrition a bigger factor than it already is.
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.05 19:47:00 - [125] Originally by: Brolo Originally by: Will Hunter true but then you must have superior resourses or technology. Incorrect. Motivation and opportunity is more important. Superior resources are no help if they're in the wrong place. The Gulf Wars provided a few examples from ancient history. Deployment in the first was hampered because lubricating oils came from a place that had just been invaded. Multimillion ISK battlewagons are pillboxes if they break down in the sand, or can be destroyed with recycled munitions and some ingenuity. Numbers can help. Cheap frigates can destroy a Titan, or swarm a POS. If you don't have the numbers, ambush the ice miners or fuelers instead. Superior tech or resouces don't help with that if you can't mine the resources or afford the tech, or afford to protect it. Two recent examples demonstrate why resources & tech don't help. Both BoB and IRC took big hits from individuals with motive and opportunity, and now are into the attrition stage. GS knew this, but seems to have matured to a divide & conquer strategy, along with becoming a landlord. Problem with that is the battlespace changes. Instead of having the initiative about what targets to attack, where and when, you have to defend that space. The larger the space, the harder that is. Taki & Tyrrax perhaps understand these concepts, and dangers more than some Goonies do. Changes to PoS warfare could well make life more interesting, especially if it changes the dynamics of siege warfare to make attrition a bigger factor than it already is. Real life wars and in game wars the same because.... Imagine seeing an IRC member saying how lack of resources doesn't lose you a war So what is losing the war for you guys? RA just wants your space more? ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
Brolo Amarr VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.05.05 21:18:00 - [126] Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Real life wars and in game wars the same because.... Art imitates life sometimes, but also allows people to learn from their mistakes less painfully. Quote: Imagine seeing an IRC member saying how lack of resources doesn't lose you a war Imagine a goonie going off topic to gloat. We may lose space & some pixels, but war is eternal. Quote: So what is losing the war for you guys? RA just wants your space more? Or GS wants RA to have the space more. Mittens explains it quite well in his post. More space, more rental income, but more to defend, more attrition. 355.3/43/0973 UB276 .P65
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.05 21:26:00 - [127] Originally by: Brolo Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Real life wars and in game wars the same because.... Art imitates life sometimes, but also allows people to learn from their mistakes less painfully. Quote: Imagine seeing an IRC member saying how lack of resources doesn't lose you a war Imagine a goonie going off topic to gloat. We may lose space & some pixels, but war is eternal. Quote: So what is losing the war for you guys? RA just wants your space more? Or GS wants RA to have the space more. Mittens explains it quite well in his post. More space, more rental income, but more to defend, more attrition. 355.3/43/0973 UB276 .P65 Hahaha, this post is ******ed on so many levels I won't waste the huge block of text it would require to point it all out. But wow. What will your next super bitter alliance be?
BangerX Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.05 22:11:00 - [128] To get a bit back on the initial subject - The HUGE Naptrain that is NC and friends is carving up 00 amongst themselves... True, they'll reset standings at some time, but I doubt they'll be starting POS warfare over space for quite a while... So - my answer to the initial post is "Yes, it does concern me...."
Karmae Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.05 22:36:00 - [129] Originally by: Teki Caldrum Why did GoonSwarm need to force BoB to disband before taking Delve? I'm sure none of it had anything to do with skill? A level playing field and because they could I suppose ==================== Originally by: Alz Shado Knowledge trumps skill trumps numbers trumps luck.
Karmae Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.05 23:01:00 - [130] Edited by: Karmae on 05/05/2009 23:04:54 Originally by: BuIIseye Pretty sure IRON, -G-, Ekliptika and the rest of the northern guys back in that time formed the first ever coalition. -G-, Iron, Razor were all founded after the Phoenix Alliance was attacked and eventually defeated by the coalition formed by Evolution, Reikoku, mOo, Coalition of Deklein, Fade Union, Norad and so on and so forth. Most of those were alliances in their own right (although in principle, alliance game mechanics did not exist at that point). All told it was in the region of 140 hostile corps on the Evol side against about 20 corps of the PA. That's the first real coalition effort I'm aware of, perhaps similar but smaller scale coalitions were formed when Curse & Stain were at each others throats. ==================== Originally by: Alz Shado Knowledge trumps skill trumps numbers trumps luck.
Sethiol Caldari Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.05 23:16:00 - [131] Originally by: Teki Caldrum 0.0 is about to become a very boring and lonely place. With these massive power blocks NAPing each other and smashing KenZoku into nothingness, who will be left to hate? In roughly a year, I wouldn't be surprised to see one alliance controlling all of 0.0. Doesn't this alarm anyone? People have no real insight of what Goons are all about do they? I am not exactly sure how many times in GS forums it has been said, or how many times we have actually done it. But I do know and have complete faith in this much. As soon as Delve is secured, it wont be safe for most of our alliance members to travel. Its wont be because of political backstabbing or misdirection, but because goons, KIA, PL and other alliance members are more interested in GGZ than in controlling large amounts of space or domination of the game. We will reset alliance members, shoot blues, and generally *** up the areas surrounding our lands and have GFs. You have to know what goons are before you can say what it is we will do. I look at my fellow goons more like frat brothers than military professionals. They fight because they like to brawl. We are lucky to have people like Mittani, DBRB, Sesafan and other great leaders of the past that have gotten us to where we are. But with out our Alliance friends, KIA PL RAWR and others, we wouldnt be where we are.
Doddy Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.05.06 02:17:00 - [132] Originally by: Teki Caldrum Edited by: Teki Caldrum on 04/05/2009 19:25:13 Originally by: Terror Rising Didn't Ken / Bob try and do this once and fail anyway? No, they made a campaign called "MAX" which wasn't about gaining SOV. It was simply about doing MAXimum Damage. BoB humbly accepted Delve as their home. They had the means to take down more regions, I'm sure. However, unlike GoonSwarm, they liked to keep enemies. Which, in my opinion, is in good sportsmanship. What is the point of NAPing everyone and gaining complete control. There will be minimal conflicts. Major power blocks will dictate if you're even ABLE to live in 0.0. It's unfair monopolization. IMHO, it's going to ruin this aspect of the game. I think he was refering to long before MAX, back when the GBC/MC had more capitals and titans than everyone else put together, remote doomsdays were all the rage and there was no cyno-jammers. RSF stopped it anyway. If it couldn't be done then it sure cant be done now.
fugazii Minmatar the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.05.06 02:58:00 - [133] Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Originally by: Hey You We all know how you took Delve in first place. That alone makes this very different. Not to mention you actually started with coalition **** in first place. Well not you. Goons. Also Fred0 wht they are referring is large fleet fights that matter for taking space. They are completly skill less now as what they used to be. Not small scale pvp where skill still prevails. But nice spin. Hardly. I know that remembering the "golden age" is the cool thing to do, but fleet fights were lagged messes with people never loading, black screening, crashing, 10 minutes module activation, relogging games... same went with capital spider tanks and titans, the lag was often so thick that people couldn't do anything about it. Now with Stackless IO people can actually control their ships, manouver and fire. How is this worse than the laggy pieces of crap we had to fight, I have no idea. One other thing about this "coalition" thing you seem to despise so much. Goonfleet (the corp mind you, not the alliance) was founded in late 2005, and at that time BoB already had pet alliances, not to mention the help of "neutral" entities like MC, making your assumption wrong. Nostalgia and pink-tinted glasses make things look different from what they actually were. I'm not going to bother logging in to verify, but I can't help but assume you didn't play in 03/04. Now, what others and I are referring to is fleet fights pre-caps. Fleet fights weren't complete lagfests due to the fact that the amount of players present didn't create it. That, combined with the fact that numbers were far less meant that the quality of pilots meant far more due to the quantity present. If 20 bs aren't shooting the primary in a fleet comprised of 300 bs the outcome of the primary isn't going to make much difference, however when 5 bs aren't shooting the primary in a fleet comprised of 30 bs it makes a huge difference. Loss's were also amplified because of the small amounts of numbers. A good example of lack of lag of the times, and that maneuverability was present is the huge success CA and C4 alliances had with their cavalry fleets. Comprised of dual mwd Ravens and ruptures mostly, a precursor to modern day nanofleets. Onto the "coalition thing". It's true BoB have had a coalition for a very long time, however they weren't the first. They're just remembered as that due to the fact that their the first to actually have one work. NAST, Northern Allied Security Treaty predated BoB, it was comprised of Phoenix Alliance, Fade Union, Coalition of Deklein(IRON's orig name), and Unicor. At the peak they controlled all of what NC controls today. FA's coalition, which included Fountain Alliance, CFS, DSMA, and many other small organizations controlling Fountain, Delve, Querious, and Period Basis. CA, which essentially was a coalition just under one name comprised of oldschool pirate corps, modern day RA(of 1 year ago), and modern day TCF. The amusing part about all the coalitions today is it's the same corps, and people running them today as who ran them in the past, just took a bit longer for them to get it working. /end rant ^_^
Utaldail Krull Minmatar Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.09 06:38:00 - [134] thats a pretty good read, however i have seen much skill from the GS alliance....such as last sunday when kenny outnumbered the GS fleet almost 2 to 1 and still lost due to bad fc'ing and panic.....was kinda funny though when they tried to run and jump only to meet a untimely death on the other side......yea i would say there is skill in the upper ranks. Originally by: Teki Caldrum Edited by: Teki Caldrum on 04/05/2009 19:59:31 Originally by: Helen Originally by: Teki Caldrum This isn't a conflict of skill. where has there been a conflict of skill in eve? That's actually quite funny. Considering you're a goonie. There haven't been many conflicts your alliance has engaged in which were skill based. Your alliance relies entirely on one tactic, well as of late, two. 1.) Attrition. 2.) Espionage/Manipulation. Why did GoonSwarm need to force BoB to disband before taking Delve? I'm sure none of it had anything to do with skill?
Helen Amarr DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.09 11:26:00 - [135] i hope kenny stick around so we can keep killing these uber fitted caps of theirs.
RavenL0RD Gallente Rubbish and Garbage Removal Legiunea ROmana	Posted - 2009.05.09 15:27:00 - [136] Originally by: Teki Caldrum 0.0 is about to become a very boring and lonely place. With these massive power blocks NAPing each other and smashing KenZoku into nothingness, who will be left to hate? In roughly a year, I wouldn't be surprised to see one alliance controlling all of 0.0. Doesn't this alarm anyone? It will not come to that... there are already voices inside the goons/pl/kia/razor/etc alliance who are not willed to fight/loose their ships for a bunch of noobs to gain control over complete delve/querios/period basis regions - and with noobs i reffer hereby to the only noobs existing in eve - goonswarm... known also as noobswarm. Soon things will happen - leaving the noobswarm with no support.
Captian Duffy Gallente Darke Aurora Dark Crystal Empire	Posted - 2009.05.09 15:58:00 - [137] Originally by: RavenL0RD Originally by: Teki Caldrum 0.0 is about to become a very boring and lonely place. With these massive power blocks NAPing each other and smashing KenZoku into nothingness, who will be left to hate? In roughly a year, I wouldn't be surprised to see one alliance controlling all of 0.0. Doesn't this alarm anyone? It will not come to that... there are already voices inside the goons/pl/kia/razor/etc alliance who are not willed to fight/loose their ships for a bunch of noobs to gain control over complete delve/querios/period basis regions - and with noobs i reffer hereby to the only noobs existing in eve - goonswarm... known also as noobswarm. Soon things will happen - leaving the noobswarm with no support. ^ trying to write a coherent post and failing miserably.
Han Lector Amarr Destructive Influence KenZoku	Posted - 2009.05.10 07:27:00 - [138] Originally by: Utaldail Krull thats a pretty good read, however i have seen much skill from the GS alliance....such as last sunday when kenny outnumbered the GS fleet almost 2 to 1 and still lost due to bad fc'ing and panic.....was kinda funny though when they tried to run and jump only to meet a untimely death on the other side......yea i would say there is skill in the upper ranks. TRUE STORY.......
Lysander Kaldenn Caldari Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.05.10 23:25:00 - [139] Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 10/05/2009 23:26:17 Kenguko has passed through the normal lifecycle of an alliance. Thier problem is they fail to realise this. There will come a day when goons die, when PL dies, when whatever power-structure that destroys them fades into dust. Kenny was fading long before Haargoth pushed the disband button. He may have expedited that demise, but it was already imminent in any case. The hierarchy of power will shift and reform after Kenny's drawn out death. Resets will come, battles will follow. Alliances will expand and eventually collpase under thier own wieght, or be destroyed by other newer entities. It is the order of things. No one stays on top forever. Thats what makes Kenny's death so pathetic, they can't come to terms with what is destroying them. Kenny galvanized the NC in the first place. When they are dead there is nothing to hold the entity together anymore. My prediction is when this is complete (I don't say over, because really it already is) Eve will actually become more wartorn.
RavenL0RD Gallente Rubbish and Garbage Removal Legiunea ROmana	Posted - 2009.05.11 00:44:00 - [140] Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 10/05/2009 23:26:17 Kenguko has passed through the normal lifecycle of an alliance. Thier problem is they fail to realise this. There will come a day when goons die, when PL dies, when whatever power-structure that destroys them fades into dust. Kenny was fading long before Haargoth pushed the disband button. He may have expedited that demise, but it was already imminent in any case. The hierarchy of power will shift and reform after Kenny's drawn out death. Resets will come, battles will follow. Alliances will expand and eventually collpase under thier own wieght, or be destroyed by other newer entities. It is the order of things. No one stays on top forever. Thats what makes Kenny's death so pathetic, they can't come to terms with what is destroying them. Kenny galvanized the NC in the first place. When they are dead there is nothing to hold the entity together anymore. My prediction is when this is complete (I don't say over, because really it already is) Eve will actually become more wartorn. Unfortunatelly for you, my poor noobswarm friend, Kenny will not die... who WILL die is the noobswarm coalition. As i said in a prior post, something wonderfull will happen... it already started... but you are probably all too blinded by noobswarm promises to realize it... what i can promise you is... noobswarm will not survive kenny being gone. There are people who will take care of this... and neither will noobswarms allies.
Bismaru's Ambition Amarr Trigrams Edge	Posted - 2009.05.11 01:17:00 - [141] Edited by: Bismaru''s Ambition on 11/05/2009 01:17:43 Its amazing how you believe your train of fail beat Kenzuko, perhaps you should ask your directors about whats really going on in the south, Goons donÆt just stop trolling if things are going their way. Kenzuko isnt dead, they had a small set back and are gaining power, those who are at the elite level of the incompetent goonswarm and other major alliances are well aware of the struggles Goons AND your own overlords are facing. Goonswarm can barely manage breathing, never mind a æhostileÆ takeover, let the collapse of Goonswarm continue, you and your little *****es will soon follow,.. until then enjoy the honey and your blunt razors!
Lysander Kaldenn Caldari Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.05.11 05:09:00 - [142] Do the Kenny directors mail you guys opium or something?
Cippalippus Primus Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.05.11 09:02:00 - [143] Originally by: RavenL0RD Unfortunatelly for you, my poor noobswarm friend, Kenny will not die... who WILL die is the noobswarm coalition. As i said in a prior post, something wonderfull will happen... it already started... but you are probably all too blinded by noobswarm promises to realize it... what i can promise you is... noobswarm will not survive kenny being gone. There are people who will take care of this... and neither will noobswarms allies. So cute, you guys got kicked in the balls by the GBC and still try as hard as you can to fit in as pets. It would be amusing if it weren't so sad. -clp
Antoine Lefevre Gallente Genos Occidere The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.05.11 09:10:00 - [144] Hi Cipp
TuRtLe HeAd Caldari KrayZ Inc Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.11 10:01:00 - [145] When the Dust settles the circle will begin again.
darthkalo Minmatar Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.05.12 16:02:00 - [146] Originally by: RavenL0RD Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 10/05/2009 23:26:17 Kenguko has passed through the normal lifecycle of an alliance. Thier problem is they fail to realise this. There will come a day when goons die, when PL dies, when whatever power-structure that destroys them fades into dust. Kenny was fading long before Haargoth pushed the disband button. He may have expedited that demise, but it was already imminent in any case. The hierarchy of power will shift and reform after Kenny's drawn out death. Resets will come, battles will follow. Alliances will expand and eventually collpase under thier own wieght, or be destroyed by other newer entities. It is the order of things. No one stays on top forever. Thats what makes Kenny's death so pathetic, they can't come to terms with what is destroying them. Kenny galvanized the NC in the first place. When they are dead there is nothing to hold the entity together anymore. My prediction is when this is complete (I don't say over, because really it already is) Eve will actually become more wartorn. Unfortunatelly for you, my poor noobswarm friend, Kenny will not die... who WILL die is the noobswarm coalition. As i said in a prior post, something wonderfull will happen... it already started... but you are probably all too blinded by noobswarm promises to realize it... what i can promise you is... noobswarm will not survive kenny being gone. There are people who will take care of this... and neither will noobswarms allies. ph34r goonswarm allies, cause there are people, people I tell you, who will take care of you. Who will take care of everything!!!!
Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.05.13 10:26:00 - [147] Who will be left to hate? All that stands.
Mecinia Lua Minmatar Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.05.13 10:41:00 - [148] In the even anyone actually did take all of 0.0, ultimately they'd die from within. Their pilots would eventually tire of having no one to shoot and ultimately they'd collapse from within. That or CCP would change the rules and they'd limit SOV in some way to prevent or break up the monopoly. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Zumbala Gallente ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.05.13 11:30:00 - [149] Originally by: fugazii Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Originally by: Hey You We all know how you took Delve in first place. That alone makes this very different. Not to mention you actually started with coalition ** in first place. Well not you. Goons. Also Fred0 wht they are referring is large fleet fights that matter for taking space. They are completly skill less now as what they used to be. Not small scale pvp where skill still prevails. But nice spin. Hardly. I know that remembering the "golden age" is the cool thing to do, but fleet fights were lagged messes with people never loading, black screening, crashing, 10 minutes module activation, relogging games... same went with capital spider tanks and titans, the lag was often so thick that people couldn't do anything about it. Now with Stackless IO people can actually control their ships, manouver and fire. How is this worse than the laggy pieces of crap we had to fight, I have no idea. One other thing about this "coalition" thing you seem to despise so much. Goonfleet (the corp mind you, not the alliance) was founded in late 2005, and at that time BoB already had pet alliances, not to mention the help of "neutral" entities like MC, making your assumption wrong. Nostalgia and pink-tinted glasses make things look different from what they actually were. I'm not going to bother logging in to verify, but I can't help but assume you didn't play in 03/04. Now, what others and I are referring to is fleet fights pre-caps. Fleet fights weren't complete lagfests due to the fact that the amount of players present didn't create it. That, combined with the fact that numbers were far less meant that the quality of pilots meant far more due to the quantity present. If 20 bs aren't shooting the primary in a fleet comprised of 300 bs the outcome of the primary isn't going to make much difference, however when 5 bs aren't shooting the primary in a fleet comprised of 30 bs it makes a huge difference. Loss's were also amplified because of the small amounts of numbers. Seriously, someone here really beleive that piloting a BS in a fleetfight requires skills? MWD out of the bubbles, and listen to your **ing fleet co to shoot at the primary? Does that require such an insane amount of skills to be well exectuted?
Aerick Dawn Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.13 13:39:00 - [150] In space, the vacuum abhors peace. No matter what, there will always be some sort of Drama(tm), a giant coalition basically just has too many egos in it to remain at peace with each other for long. __________________ If I'm in a fair fight, i've done something terribly wrong.

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