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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
xarjin
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.05.17 01:19:00 -
[151]
Edited by: xarjin on 17/05/2009 01:41:14 Edited by: xarjin on 17/05/2009 01:39:50 Edited by: xarjin on 17/05/2009 01:36:30 Edited by: xarjin on 17/05/2009 01:22:27
Originally by: Shereza
Originally by: xarjin sounds like a great advancement in content distribution i'm sure i mentioned before the whole BITS debacle. imo to all the whiners that claim they dont want a bittorrent based patch downloader for various reasons that blizzard has been using bittorrent based patch delivery systems for warcraft for years and it evidently works very well.
Did Blizzard stick it down the throats of their client base as a third-party program without the appropriate protections and restrictions associated with the relevant legal documentation?
Did Blizzard use a program that doesn't let you customize the installation of said third-party program? Is Blizzard's downloader hard to find unless you're told specifically where it is?
This program was installed without my prior consent. It was installed in a location not of my choosing. It had absolutely no readily apparent method of interacting with the client. It was not automatically terminated at the end of the download process and continued to run using up CPU resources the entire time. There was no legal documentation provided for me to review relating to the third-party program.
These are statements of fact. These are, so far as I am concerned, serious issues. No whining about it. So far it strikes me as a very, very, bad way of doing things.
I don't have a problem with a torrent-based downloader, so long as it involves a torrent file I can load into my current BitTorrent client.
1) If ya cant beat em join em
Blizzard's patch downloader for warcraft functions only as a temporary bittorrent client user interface that does not install any permanent system services. It is the primary patch downloader for every person that plays the game. Patches are only distributed via bittorrent using the provided patch downloader from blizzard as the advantages for rapid decentralized content distribution are widely known and completely legal.
With the above mentioned statement I'm very hesitant to support any user side application that installs a daemon that cannot be removed, is not unloaded with the termination of the patch downloader or installs any permanent files or system services without my knowledge even if it was bittorrent based. Just keep the permanent daemon and make a user interface based bittorrent client patcher application that only functions as a client for the duration of it's use and i'm sure the hecklers will care less about how the bandwidth for eve's patch downloading is utilized.
2) Not everyone is a network engineer or a software developer.
Bittorrent clients cannot upload to peers if you have a router on your home network unless the correct network port on the router was opened as the connection to an available peer is a request for an incoming network connetion to your computer from a remote peer known by the bittorrent tracker. The patch client i'm sure like any network based appliation has a range of over 65000 network ports and to ensure functionality would open one of those 65000 ports randomly when the patch downloader was executed. The chances of one of those random ports being open for an unsolicited request are extremely low so the shared p2p upload component would mostly only apply to people without a network router. If you haven't guessed by now I am a certified network engineer
3) Keep it simple stupid
Reinventing the wheel is often a large waste of resources and time better invested to using a solution that works for tens of millions of people. Opentracker is that solution, it costs nothing to implement and has been proven capable to withstand more server load punishment than every eve user could possibly generate. http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-switches-to-opentracker-071208/
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Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.17 20:53:00 -
[152]
Originally by: xarjin
2) Not everyone is a network engineer or a software developer.
Bittorrent clients cannot upload to peers if you have a router on your home network unless the correct network port on the router was opened as the connection to an available peer is a request for an incoming network connetion to your computer from a remote peer known by the bittorrent tracker. The patch client i'm sure like any network based appliation has a range of over 65000 network ports and to ensure functionality would open one of those 65000 ports randomly when the patch downloader was executed. The chances of one of those random ports being open for an unsolicited request are extremely low so the shared p2p upload component would mostly only apply to people without a network router. If you haven't guessed by now I am a certified network engineer
There is a Reason Upnp was developed for home routers so you dont have to configure **** but it will work right?
Installing a down loader a service is totally unacceptable and is borderline unethical. Dont ****ing do it use a torrent with http seeders.
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Gespenst Jager
Pumpkin Scissors Bright Side of Death
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Posted - 2009.05.17 23:00:00 -
[153]
Quote: Keep it simple stupid
Imho, CCP think that EVE-pilots is not smart enough to use torrents. Therefore they wish to simplify process of patches downloading.
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Maximus Incendiary
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Posted - 2009.05.18 04:00:00 -
[154]
I am wildly against software installed on my pc without my explicit consent. And by "explicit consent", I mean that I'm notified in some way other than a click-thru no-one-reads-it shrink-wrap-scam-license kind of way.
I don't want P2P software running on my PC unless I put it there intentionally myself, under my own control. CCP installing spyware/P2P services or agents on my PC that I cannot turn on & off AND control what/where/when/to whom it communicates will result in three accounts cancelling.
Please don't jack up the game with some BS scam trying to save a few dollars on your ISP rates. Man up, you make millions off us, treat us with some respect. |
Xapharia
WOLIMAZO INC
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Posted - 2009.05.18 07:23:00 -
[155]
Why not just use the STANDARD .torrent format (maybe even make it an RSS feed). Make it a standard .torrent file you download so you're not restricted to using ONE program to get the file(s). In addition keep the http/ftp as an option for people allergic to bittorrent. (There's always some.)
This way people can use whatever client they want to download the game/patches and can even set the upload to 0.0 in cases of limited bandwich per month. The current primary download system with the exe downloader doesn't work properly either (gives lots of errors and ends with having to download it 'manually' anyways). _________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Taradis
Amarr The Imperial Furies
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Posted - 2009.05.18 10:00:00 -
[156]
Hmm could this be the cause of the Error on patch download on the Sisi client? I seem to be having issues with the incompatible version or wtf ever it is /is at work atm so i can't really splain the issue right. Also tried to manually apply the patch to no avail. Could some1 be so nice as too steer me in the right direction on this. Thanks
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Tomarix Vindigo
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Posted - 2009.05.19 11:36:00 -
[157]
I say NO to this daemon as well. Make it optional with a BIG easy to see BUTTON to choose it, or skip this.
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KalEl Trask
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Posted - 2009.05.22 06:55:00 -
[158]
Absolutely Freakin Not! I have five accounts and will cancel every last one of them and bio mass my characters if I don't have an option to opt out of a p2p daemon install.
I think that explains my viewpoint.
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oprime
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Posted - 2009.05.22 18:44:00 -
[159]
The new system is so much slower then the old one :(. I used to download at 1MBps but now I'm down to 400~600KBps
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Xianthar
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.22 20:50:00 -
[160]
you most certainly will not be installing any daemon's on my computer, good luck trying..
manual download page works just fine thank you.
-x
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Mr morris
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.23 12:18:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Mr morris on 23/05/2009 12:18:54 Guys, This generally inconsiderate & invasive idea makes for good round table discussions and thats where it should have been left. CCP, STOP TRYING TO REINVENT THE WHEEL ffs.
Mr Morris is sold in game on boyout offer. |
xarjin
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.05.25 11:44:00 -
[162]
Originally by: oprime The new system is so much slower then the old one :(. I used to download at 1MBps but now I'm down to 400~600KBps
If the bittorrent based distribution patcher was implemented for everyone peer speeds experienced by users would be much higher than you may have experienced due to how bittorrent functions. More seeders and peers using the system the more speed each user would receive. |
xarjin
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.05.25 11:47:00 -
[163]
Edited by: xarjin on 25/05/2009 11:59:20
Originally by: Sally Bestonge
Originally by: xarjin
2) Not everyone is a network engineer or a software developer.
Bittorrent clients cannot upload to peers if you have a router on your home network unless the correct network port on the router was opened as the connection to an available peer is a request for an incoming network connetion to your computer from a remote peer known by the bittorrent tracker. The patch client i'm sure like any network based appliation has a range of over 65000 network ports and to ensure functionality would open one of those 65000 ports randomly when the patch downloader was executed. The chances of one of those random ports being open for an unsolicited request are extremely low so the shared p2p upload component would mostly only apply to people without a network router. If you haven't guessed by now I am a certified network engineer
There is a Reason Upnp was developed for home routers so you dont have to configure **** but it will work right?
Installing a down loader a service is totally unacceptable and is borderline unethical. Dont ****ing do it use a torrent with http seeders.
upnp is an option I had not considered at the time but for the majority of users with a network router I would reasonably expect they would not experience a large rise in upload bandwidth usage leading to complaints or TOS violations from isp's. Also considering the patch downloader functionality has been in question a bittorrent patch downloader for an mmo that does not install a permanent daemon could not be at all classified as a server service but rather a client very similar to blizzard's patch downloader would be entirely within the compliance of every major isp's TOS or AUP. |
Beverly Sparks
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Posted - 2009.05.30 19:31:00 -
[164]
Originally by: tx eight Why don't you officially seed and publish torrents for installers and patches and be done with it?
Why all this invention of bicycles, why use unknown, undertested protocols, buggy, practically unsupported client and server software with god knows how many security problems and vulnerabilities instead of proven, reliable protocol with lots of production-quality client and server code available?
BitTorrent was designed for the task, is used by millions of people for the task, has proven its worth. What's wrong with it?
Bingo. Just link the official torrent here on the site.
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yoyaz
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Posted - 2009.06.01 23:25:00 -
[165]
i like the one where i just download the full patch through the site..
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slipknot69hell
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Posted - 2009.06.02 18:37:00 -
[166]
plz ccp hear me..
instead going around proto n tryin to customize (which i really like) can u plz at least see the btdna docs n refs i garrantee that ull adopt it... plz for the greatness of the view of the big things plz ill say again
btdna, check it out :)
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2009.06.09 07:52:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Sally Bestonge
Originally by: xarjin
2) Not everyone is a network engineer or a software developer.
Bittorrent clients cannot upload to peers if you have a router on your home network unless the correct network port on the router was opened as the connection to an available peer is a request for an incoming network connetion to your computer from a remote peer known by the bittorrent tracker. The patch client i'm sure like any network based appliation has a range of over 65000 network ports and to ensure functionality would open one of those 65000 ports randomly when the patch downloader was executed. The chances of one of those random ports being open for an unsolicited request are extremely low so the shared p2p upload component would mostly only apply to people without a network router. If you haven't guessed by now I am a certified network engineer
There is a Reason Upnp was developed for home routers so you dont have to configure **** but it will work right?
Installing a down loader a service is totally unacceptable and is borderline unethical. Dont ****ing do it use a torrent with http seeders.
There is also a reason why any security minded person kills of upnp the first thing they do. NO port opening or other changes to network setup without me doing it or at least approving.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.06.09 10:45:00 -
[168]
well... dbus-daemon takes up 8mb memory (which is twice what ¦torrent needs with ~10 torrents in all shapes, colors and block sizes), increases my q3a pings from ~40ms to ~65ms and/or reduced my avg torrenting speeds by ~10-15% during the last 8d i kept track of them all.
sure... i now kill the process every time i start eve but i'm sure the game is affected for everyone who doesn't stop this fail - putting the gist back into logistics |
Tor Umar
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Posted - 2009.06.14 20:46:00 -
[169]
Is this why i cant get online????
"The update was downloaded but it failed verification indicating that the file is corrupt. Would you like to download the file again?
You will not be able to enter the game until you download the update." |
5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.06.16 01:03:00 -
[170]
Downloaded over 2 gigabytes, took 2 hours. Got an error at the end
Extraction error or something, what's that?
Also it wasn't very fast at downloading, around 3x as slow as it used to be at around 200kb/sec. |
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something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.06.16 01:34:00 -
[171]
oh for the love of god
the wheel has already been invented ... its called a wheel
First there was a thing called direct download people used it and saw it was ok then came a bunch of accountants who (quite correctly actualy) stated that content delivery networks (the only real option to serve so many people at the same time) are fking expensive
the devs gathered and thought "hmmmm if only there was ... something like a wheel...." finaly they settled on using a stone called BITS, wich they hammered it into shape using other stones it wasnt realy all that round but it did its job ... sort of
people started to use this BITS because it was realy the default option.... it wasnt all that quick because it wasnt realy round and people complained so the devs got back together and say " listen that first incarnation of "the wheel" didnt quite work out why dont we give it another try so they thought long and hard untill it struck somebody who was looking at cows EUREKA! that squishy mushy thing that comes out of the backend of cows that must be "the wheel" promtly he brought it in and the devs incharge of this project rejoiced
------------------------------------------- As for the constructive part of this post :
Dear CCP, Ladies and Gentlemen i give you the 2 point plan to content distribution success 1)Provide a direct download 2)Provide a .torrent file and a tracker n stuffs
that is all Best Regards |
Draco Argen
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Posted - 2009.07.12 18:10:00 -
[172]
Dare i ask but why doesn't CCP actually just USE bit torrent as an optional download (IE leave direct download these too, or you will have a mutiny). Put up one of your servers as a seed and allow people to choose. Means they have full control of the download process. Many professional companies like Sun and red hat do exactly this.
Always seem to be rebuilding the wheel, and i never know why. You've re-made chat servers/clients, email, hell even your very own browser, but why? :)
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.14 09:28:00 -
[173]
Pando > torrent i use the pando(the normal version) for 2 years and i got awesome download speed (800-900 kb/s) Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
EvE FTW |
Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2009.08.02 20:18:00 -
[174]
With the Apocrypha 1.5 fleet testing coming up soon (3 days from now) can you tell me if we have seen the last of Pando and any other third party software that gets installed/run without explicit warning and possibility to prevent it?
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Dapto
Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity
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Posted - 2009.08.04 00:33:00 -
[175]
CCP you really havnt thought about this have you. P2P is a very bad idea it opens up both ours and your networks to very unscrupulous people in interent land the ones that do bad **** for no other reason than they can. Arent you experiencing enough problems with keyloggers at the moment why open a new can of worms. Errr did you consult your legal team? You do realise it wont be us the players coming at you from the 4 corners of the globe it'll be the major ISP's.
I hope you have an army of lawyers in the waiting? good luck you'll need it.
PS. Please by all means contact me if you'd like the run down on the full technical and legal ramifications if you still choose to do this.
Dapto |
Wolfensrevenge
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Posted - 2009.08.07 19:58:00 -
[176]
Ok so this Pando your talking about its the same system used for thoes Korean Grind games like Maple Story and i hate it i recenty had problems downloading through this system because my settings would not work with the download, its fail... anyway hope we use the regular patch service that has proven itself time and time again. Thanks for the post
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Commander Vice
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Posted - 2009.08.08 16:18:00 -
[177]
Originally by: R Mika Have not tried it. However, if it works like Bit Torrent that means it allows me to see the IP address of others and others can see my IP address.
There are already enough people in Eve willing to use whatever means necessary to "defeat" their opponents. Handing such groups and individuals yet another tool, one sanctioned by CCP no less, crosses the line from igorance to complete stupidity. Those that are foolish enough to use BT are already comprised. If this was ever made manditory my days of Eve would be done.
Please think about the environment you have helped create.
My thoughts exactly
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Dansel
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.10 15:07:00 -
[178]
I have no problem with it being a P2P system.
But I do have a problem with that it installes software that I didn't choose to install, with not being able to control which ports it uses, how much it will upload and who it conects to, and not given the option to launch or terminate the application on times of my choosing. ----------------- Yay!! |
Wolfensrevenge
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Posted - 2009.08.15 01:36:00 -
[179]
Ok well the test server is no longer working for me. I have had patch problems and this all seemed to start after this was introduced.Pando has given me problems in the past and now its causing problems again it seems, havent been on the test server in over a week looks like I wont be able to use it anymore please dont use this on TQ I like this game and I dont want any issues or headechs with it over somthing that isnt a major problem. "If it isnt Broke Dont Fix It". Thanks, Wolfensrevenge
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AngelFood
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Posted - 2009.08.19 11:43:00 -
[180]
I have never had any problem with eve patch downloading only the odd bugs maybe but generally when it works it works good.
Wow on the other hand is a terrible system which is very slow and takes up 'horde's' of bandwidth.
So why people are comparing to wow as a good example i don't know.
I say if it ain't broke dont fix it, and i think this definately applies here.
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