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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Kelly Luzita	Posted - 2009.05.08 20:46:00 - [121] Edited by: Kelly Luzita on 08/05/2009 20:48:03 Edited by: Kelly Luzita on 08/05/2009 20:47:03 Originally by: omgdutch2005 Originally by: Kelly Luzita My isp banns accounts for hosting home severs on the plan i have . Sharing files via p2p will look like i am hosting a sever to my isp . Do not implement this idea. bull ** p.s. it uses several ports to download, 80, 443, random port and 2 additional ports if they would make the data transfer go through SSL, even deep packet inspection wont do a thing... all the see is many ssl packets from left to right O yes they do funny how you can make that comment not knowing my isp TOS. I have had friends lose service from sharing game patches through FTP. http: //netservices.verizon.net/portal/link/main/selectregion?epi-content=GENERICWIDECONTENT&viewID=content&action=AcceptableUse&epi_menuItemID=0e48d66306ea92a73cfc9708c70c430d&nv=L-i-6&hsl=true&fr=y ( Quote: i) generate excessive amounts of email or other Internet traffic; http://www.verizon.net/policies/popups/tos_popup.asp Quote:** or use the Service to host any type of server. Violation of this section may result in bandwidth restrictions on your Service or suspension or termination of your Service. Note: any type of server P2p is file serving.
TimeKeeper Chronos	Posted - 2009.05.08 20:57:00 - [122] I don't like this one bit. I'm OK with the current patch system for the live server but a system like this, I can't stand and will not stand for.
Kelly Luzita	Posted - 2009.05.08 20:57:00 - [123] Originally by: Vak'ran Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: omgdutch2005 Originally by: Kelly Luzita My isp banns accounts for hosting home severs on the plan i have . Sharing files via p2p will look like i am hosting a sever to my isp . Do not implement this idea. bull **** p.s. it uses several ports to download, 80, 443, random port and 2 additional ports if they would make the data transfer go through SSL, even deep packet inspection wont do a thing... all the see is many ssl packets from left to right Do you think the ISP guys are stupid? Try it.. they automatically drop your speed to 1/10th of normal speed while you are transmitting a large ammount of SSL packets. They already do it .. You really underestimated the greed of those people. Get another ISP. The more of them that do it, the larger the market for an unscrutinized connection. Mine doesnt do this, but I am bothered by the software that could very well be intended to replace the BITS system in time. This variation is unwanted by anyone who likes to have control over what their computer actually is doing, those people make up quite a bit of the EVE community. I for one will never allow it to function as intended. Where I live I only have one isp or its back to dial up or Satellite.. I cant really game on ether of them.
Kale Kold Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.08 21:08:00 - [124] CCP have now answered this in a crystal clear fashion and i am pleased to say that the Pando service will be a completely optional install! Thankyou CCP. Criminal Record
annoing Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.05.08 21:22:00 - [125] Originally by: Kale Kold CCP have now answered this in a crystal clear fashion and i am pleased to say that the Pando service will be a completely optional install! Thankyou CCP. Optional for the next patch maybe, but history tells us that within the next 3 patches 'optional' will become maditory Ask to use the Goats Pleasure Palace when you visit the Fanfest this year
Professor Perplex	Posted - 2009.05.08 21:59:00 - [126] Edited by: Professor Perplex on 08/05/2009 21:59:33 optional as in .. "dude there was a check box you needed to uncheck. didnt you read what was written on the patcher that comes up every weeks that you have clicked through so many times before without some third party installing itself? oh, you didnt read the 10 pages of patch notes where we pointed that out? what, you missed the part where it sets itself to autostart on boot so you can serve our content to our customers?" i bet you a lot of people will get caught out by this and not realise that they are installing third party software.
Andrew Riviera Caldari The First Church of the Azure Carrot The Dominion Empire	Posted - 2009.05.08 22:06:00 - [127] 'Optional' is all well and good, but it needs to be opt-IN, not opt-OUT. If someone specifically wants this Pando garbage, they can ask for it by name. If it's defaulted, people will accidentally install it and they will get burned by it and CCP will lose customers over it.
TeaDaze Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.05.08 23:07:00 - [128] Edited by: TeaDaze on 08/05/2009 23:07:27 Originally by: Andrew Riviera 'Optional' is all well and good, but it needs to be opt-IN, not opt-OUT. If someone specifically wants this Pando garbage, they can ask for it by name. If it's defaulted, people will accidentally install it and they will get burned by it and CCP will lose customers over it. QFT In addition why in the name of deity are CCP wasting dev and volunteer testing time on this pando "trojan" when the _game_ needs fixing - stuff like the corp interface which has been broken for 4+ years... I seriously think CCP are losing the plot with all these scrum development teams running around adding new shiney features and nurfing the crap out of stuff around without (it seems) a bigger picture of where the game is going... Please resize sig to a maximum file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
Shereza	Posted - 2009.05.08 23:44:00 - [129] Edited by: Shereza on 08/05/2009 23:45:45 Originally by: CCP Mephysto Thanks for all your replies so far. I appreciate the feedback you have been giving, and will forward the various concerns raised to the people responsible for this. I sincerely hope your legal department has some of those people responsible. I'm not sure of the legal ramifications involved but at the very least there's a chance that CCP could be held responsible for any issues arising from use of Pando and because the user, at least currently, apparently does not agree to a contract such as a typical EULA with regards to the Pando software package we are not subject to the customary "you can't sue us for our program doing what it was made to do" rules that are usually included in them. I mean it's a pretty fun thing to consider. You pass this software around and as a result people get in trouble with their ISPs or, if something really bad manages to spread across the network, law enforcement. If those people aren't bound by "you can't sue us" agreements and sue Pando what will Pando do about it? I'm betting they might try to pass the buck to CCP. For that matter the end users might just sue CCP directly since, if third-party software like Pando isn't included in the EULA. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.05.09 08:05:00 - [130] Edited by: Poreuomai on 09/05/2009 08:09:19 Originally by: Kale Kold CCP have now answered this in a crystal clear fashion and i am pleased to say that the Pando service will be a completely optional install! Thankyou CCP. Where was this answered? Do you mean the OP where it says it will be an additional option? What worries me is this post: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1065424&page=2#34 Install first and then opt out? *Let My People Go*

Helison Gallente Times of Ancar	Posted - 2009.05.09 10:41:00 - [131] CCP, thanks for testing this service and asking for feedback before using this stuff for TQ. I really hope that you don't use Pando, but here a few points from my side, which weren't really answered yet: 1) CCP Explorer wrote: "We are testing an optional method for downloading the full install. You can still use the the primary method to download the install, which is regular HTTP download (using the BITS service in Windows). We are not making any changes to patch downloads." PLEASE keep the regular HTTP download WITHOUT BITS service. BITS is not available on all PCs. 2) When selecting the download-method it has to be clear, which method does what. It has to be easy for new players to decide which method of downloading to choose and how to configure the Pando Downloader correctly (if you really stick with it). You also need to tell the customer that the Pando downloader stays installed till the user uninstalls it manually. 3) Can any dev of CCP explain, why you don't want to publish a normal .torrent file? I tried your bittorrent-exe once, but it used too much CPU, so I switched back to http.
Koyama Ise Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon	Posted - 2009.05.09 12:10:00 - [132] I personally like the current BITS system because I don't have to configure my firewall with every single patch so the downloaded one-time-use executable can access the internet. That and, people in places like Australia get download limits on ADSL. On cable internet however I believe it's generally a combined upload/download limit and P2P means they have to sacrifice more of their limit because they have to seed it as well, at least that's how I understand it. --- Koyama Ise, Applying logic in areas where it is logical to do so.
EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.09 16:28:00 - [133] As a linux user, i have to download the patch manually, which means i would have to be forced to use the pando software, and I called my ISP they said that if any p2p is detected I will have my service disconnected. what is there to do?
xSnowwhitex	Posted - 2009.05.09 22:07:00 - [134] Edited by: xSnowwhitex on 09/05/2009 22:07:02 this thread isn't locked yet this is beginning to look like this as there both installing secret files http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/technologynews/4969463/Internet-conspiracy-theories-abound-over-Symantec-Pifts.exe-file.html
Moon Kitten GoonFleet	Posted - 2009.05.10 03:10:00 - [135] Do they have download/upload bandwidth caps in Iceland or is it all you can eat?
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.05.10 08:31:00 - [136] Bad idea. Honestly just offer a direct download. I hate having to search 20 threads to find where the dev have posted the direct download link. My home is dial up and so I generally download big patches at work in the background, however I can't install anything on the work computer. I just download to a flashdrive which works good and they have no problems with to date. I'm surprised with the potential legal ramifications the legal dept of CCP would even allow you to consider Pando. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
omgdutch2005 Gallente Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2009.05.11 12:15:00 - [137] Edited by: omgdutch2005 on 11/05/2009 12:18:23 Originally by: Mecinia Lua Bad idea. Honestly just offer a direct download. I hate having to search 20 threads to find where the dev have posted the direct download link. My home is dial up and so I generally download big patches at work in the background, however I can't install anything on the work computer. I just download to a flashdrive which works good and they have no problems with to date. I'm surprised with the potential legal ramifications the legal dept of CCP would even allow you to consider Pando. for this virtualisation can work :) there are softwarepackages that dont need installation (portable version), it boots a windows installation, were you have full admin, install it there, and it'll download via the available open ports (80, 443 100%, rest depends on restrictions) saying you download your patches even the 2GB files, i see no problem in a stripped down version :) only issue there could b is RAM, but even 128mb windows should work fine (although slow ^^)
Cheekything Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.05.12 10:57:00 - [138] Rather than giving a new download installer can we not just get a .torrent or Direct Download.. and set the option to which we prefer... simple . As for the auto updater use it for small patches under 80mb. If not direct user to the above with a menu.
DeTox MinRohim Madhatters Inc. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.12 13:16:00 - [139] Lol... silly CCP. Keep your daemon away from us. ------ This sig space is Read-only ! omgalink - Online Skillsheet
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.05.13 04:22:00 - [140] not sure if this is the right place to put it but I've been using the installer that autodownloads when I open up eve and it says there's a new patch. 2 problems with it: 1. It downloads itself every single time, if its the exact same downloader why do I have to download a 3 mb downloader for every 9 mb patch? maybe I'm just confused but seems wastefull to me. 2. When this autodownloader starts downloading it shuts down all eve clients. This is annoying as I'll be playing with one char on the real server start patching for the test server then have my eve client crash. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls

Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.05.13 12:32:00 - [141] hats off for accepting chribba's idea. actually all hats off, tin foil or not, for accepting any external idea at all for a change. but only you guys can take a potentially great thing and ruin it - and from following the game dev forum, this is deliberate. and then users like chribba, chruker, elissen, ombey, braaage and all the other exceptionally good souls out there, have to clean up the mess/shortcomings. and appearantly you're used to it and spoiled up to the point of counting on it. i wouldnt be surprised if we had to find proper torrents of your tq patches on eve-files in order to avoid this "daemon" - putting the gist back into logistics
Zitus	Posted - 2009.05.13 16:32:00 - [142] Edited by: Zitus on 13/05/2009 16:34:34 Originally by: EliteSlave As a linux user, i have to download the patch manually, which means i would have to be forced to use the pando software, and I called my ISP they said that if any p2p is detected I will have my service disconnected. what is there to do? Find an OS that works with EVE in the future? (CCP stated they will no longer be supporting linux users) =( ALSO: read the entire thread and found literally like 2 people that suported it. one of which was mainly supporting P2p in general and not pando at all. congrats on entering the virus and trojan horse buisness CCP. Edit: for clarification, I also say no
Zostera Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.05.13 22:48:00 - [143] This sounds like something I want to avoid thanks. Many of us are simply people that enjoy a bit of game time and really don't have the in depth technical knowledge of how all this stuff works. Therefore we put a fair amount of trust in CCP to keep us safe, and it doesn't look like this particaular PANDO stuff can be regarded as safe or suitable for my or any others less technically competent persons PC. I won't use, and if that means no EvE... fair enough, not risking my PC security or high p2p bandwidth bills or anything else. Zos Vote Mazz 09 CSM
xarjin Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.05.13 23:16:00 - [144] sounds like a great advancement in content distribution i'm sure i mentioned before the whole BITS debacle. imo to all the whiners that claim they dont want a bittorrent based patch downloader for various reasons that blizzard has been using bittorrent based patch delivery systems for warcraft for years and it evidently works very well.
Shereza	Posted - 2009.05.14 02:56:00 - [145] Originally by: xarjin sounds like a great advancement in content distribution i'm sure i mentioned before the whole BITS debacle. imo to all the whiners that claim they dont want a bittorrent based patch downloader for various reasons that blizzard has been using bittorrent based patch delivery systems for warcraft for years and it evidently works very well. Did Blizzard stick it down the throats of their client base as a third-party program without the appropriate protections and restrictions associated with the relevant legal documentation? Did Blizzard use a program that doesn't let you customize the installation of said third-party program? Is Blizzard's downloader hard to find unless you're told specifically where it is? This program was installed without my prior consent. It was installed in a location not of my choosing. It had absolutely no readily apparent method of interacting with the client. It was not automatically terminated at the end of the download process and continued to run using up CPU resources the entire time. There was no legal documentation provided for me to review relating to the third-party program. These are statements of fact. These are, so far as I am concerned, serious issues. No whining about it. So far it strikes me as a very, very, bad way of doing things. I don't have a problem with a torrent-based downloader, so long as it involves a torrent file I can load into my current BitTorrent client. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
ROBOT POPE	Posted - 2009.05.14 04:45:00 - [146] This was not well thought out. Putting something like Pando into your client with the scheme you have set up for installation and disabling the thing is pretty rotten sounding, and you are bound to never get subscribers who freak out whenever they hear about some secret program included in your game. Also, there is no perceivable reason why you would want to use this over a regular torrent. In conclusion Sandvine rules comcast rules ~catch a wave
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.05.14 12:50:00 - [147] Whatever solution you go with, please for the love of Goddess, give me the option/ability to download the patches in their entirety using my choice of manager/browser/ftp-client etc. I do not feel comfortable having an undisclosed amount of my available bandwidth sucked away, even if it is for a short period, I want/need the ability to control the flow.
Zostera Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.05.14 12:52:00 - [148] So I downloaded the pathc, wasn't asked to opt into or out of anything and I have no idea if a p2p was installed - anyone with more techy knowledge can cofirm whether this went ahead or? Zos Vote Mazz 09 CSM
Orb Lati Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.15 06:38:00 - [149] I dont know if its been requested previously, but can you have the auto downloader change the file to an re-usable executable instead of the RTP container file located under programdata/ccp/eve/downloads. As an an extra bonus, giving us the option to save the patch to a new location would be fantastic as its a pain having to do multiple downloads if you have multiple clients. "We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible"
Kronsur Boon	Posted - 2009.05.16 13:14:00 - [150] I see the great advantages in using a p2p network to distribute files. However, I will not use a propriety p2p network like Pando. There are several reasons for this. If I'm going to install an application that shares my system's bandwidth and resources, I want remain in control of the resources it allocates. I would also prefer the network to be open and transparent. My preference would be for CCP to make a torrent available. That way everyone can take advantage of the p2p network, but still remain in control of their system's resources.



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