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Kazang Gallente Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.05.06 18:13:00 - [1] The Pirate Bay has finally been blocked by my ISP this week and now I'm a very sad and angry panda. For anyone who doesn't know the owners of the site have been convicted of copyright infringement. ISPs around the world have been asked to block the site, most are compiling. The pirate bay trackers haven't been updated for 2 days and so I'm assuming its gone down, but can't check becasue I've been blocked. This is relatively old news but the trackers not being updated has made it a fresh issue. This is a huge, huge blow to the global internet community. Its a total injustice and an infringement on the basic rights of freedom of speech and information. The Pirate Bay are no more responsible for copyright infringement than the roads and car companies are responsible for trafficing drugs. The corruption of the judge and the law forces involved with this is blatant and heinous The governments and multi billion dollar media companies are controlling the flow of information. This one more step into them controlling us and turning the internet and our lives into a big brother controlled nightmare. The greed of the already super rich, manipulating laws and justice to their whim makes me sick. The corruption is more obvious than ever. If we let stuff like this happen it wont be long before laws like this are passed and we will be breaking the law by "bullying" and intimidating people on the internet and that includes EVE. Trying to ransom that hulk? Wardecing that carebear corp? Thats "Cyberbullying" and would come under the reign of that posturing and basic right infringing, abomination of a law. We shouldn't underestimate the effect of this, Mininova goes on trial in few days, and have begun to censor and filter content available through their site. This is the start of a downward spiral, if we let the media companies get away with this. This effects us in so many little ways, even our beloved Chribba would be a criminal under this new court ruling, for hosting EVE videos that use commercial songs or content soundtracks without permission. Does that make sense to you, does that seem just, does it seem fair? I don't think so. The problem is that regular folk have so little power to anything about stuff like this. Politicians don't care, they just want to line their own pockets, and media giants help them do that. I'm hoping that a group will organise a boycott but that may be wishfull thinking. Your thoughts?
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.06 18:23:00 - [2] /strolls in Hey guys, whats going on?
Vak'ran	Posted - 2009.05.06 18:29:00 - [3] Can't it be just down? I'm not getting the page either while I can freely visit any other such site (even based in my country). I'm not gonna assume it blocked by my ISP. Put down the tinfoil until sure. ----- Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forums.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.05.06 18:35:00 - [4] TPB isn't loading for me either. Public opinion is against the government and these multi-billion dollar companies, so one can hope they back off eventually. Current financial crisis has probably made the companies look around for lost income, of which they see internet piracy. What they fail to understand is that 90% of these people would have never bought the DVD anyway, and 5 years ago they were the people who recorded films off their TV and let their friends/children/neighbour borrow. Other 10% of people go and buy the DVD/CD anyway, because they liked the content and want to support it. Most people have a soul, these companies do not.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.06 18:36:00 - [5] There have been problems with the registrations / Forgotten password mailouts, and the Captcha for registering. I'd assume they are just fixing this to be honest. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.05.06 18:49:00 - [6] It was down for a while for me too, now it works again. EVE issues\|Mining revamp\|Build stuff\|Make ISK
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.06 18:58:00 - [7] Originally by: Kazang The Pirate Bay has finally been blocked by my ISP this week and now I'm a very sad and angry panda. TPB offers a service called http://ipredator.se/
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.05.06 19:03:00 - [8] Edited by: RedSplat on 06/05/2009 19:04:42 As long as there is a thirst for bootleg goods the unlawful trade in a copyrighted medium will continue. The only people that get burnt are figureheads. Ultimately its greedy record company's trying to keep a stranglehold on distribution in a medium where they can maximize profit with little competition. The internet, thus far, is almost entirely ungovernable. Also, TOR or bust. EDIT: I suggest OP avoids high profile golden donkeys like The Pirate Bay and Mininova that don't keep a secure hand on their data. Find a secure community. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Kazang Gallente Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.05.06 19:54:00 - [9] Originally by: RedSplat Edited by: RedSplat on 06/05/2009 19:04:42 As long as there is a thirst for bootleg goods the unlawful trade in a copyrighted medium will continue. The only people that get burnt are figureheads. Ultimately its greedy record company's trying to keep a stranglehold on distribution in a medium where they can maximize profit with little competition. The internet, thus far, is almost entirely ungovernable. Also, TOR or bust. EDIT: I suggest OP avoids high profile golden donkeys like The Pirate Bay and Mininova that don't keep a secure hand on their data. Find a secure community. I generally don't use the pirate bay except for stuff that is only available via big public trackers. I've already got round the block by using an open dns server instead of my ISPs default. The fact its the pirate bay in particular wont effect my download habits much, but it is the figure head, the golden donkey, is worrying becasue of that fact, not despite it. This could now go either way it could spur the public into action and get a change in copyright law. Or its tinfoil hat time and the could bring on the closure of all/most public bittorrent trackers. Figureheads falling are always a catalyst for change, its both interesting and worrying to think about which way it will go, becasue it will change things. Kazang
WhiteSavage Gallente Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.05.06 21:51:00 - [10] We are losing the internets

EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.06 22:08:00 - [11] Guess you shouldnt partake in illegal activities, if you want software / music / movies... goto a Respected Distributor of said Product, IE: if you want Photoshop, goto www.adobe.com People like you cause these problems, downloading and distributing illegal copies of Software / music / movies only invites for tighter reins on the internet.
Xelios Minmatar Broski Enterprises Avarice.	Posted - 2009.05.06 22:13:00 - [12] intitle:index.of mp3 filetype:torrent Looks like Google is guilty of copyright infringement too
Taedrin Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate	Posted - 2009.05.06 22:17:00 - [13] Originally by: EliteSlave Guess you shouldnt partake in illegal activities, if you want software / music / movies... goto a Respected Distributor of said Product, IE: if you want Photoshop, goto www.adobe.com People like you cause these problems, downloading and distributing illegal copies of Software / music / movies only invites for tighter reins on the internet. OR, if you don't want to pay adobe hundreds of USD, you can go to www.gimp.org. I am personally of the opinion that if you want to rebel against profit mongering corporations, then instead of pirating their software, you should get open source alternatives. If you pirate their software, then that only makes them see you as a potential source of revenue via lawsuits (or by forcing you to buy their software once you can't pirate it anymore).
FOl2TY8 Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.05.06 23:27:00 - [14] Originally by: Taedrin I am personally of the opinion that if you want to rebel against profit mongering corporations, then instead of pirating their software, you should get open source alternatives. If you pirate their software, then that only makes them see you as a potential source of revenue via lawsuits (or by forcing you to buy their software once you can't pirate it anymore). This guy actually thinks things through. From now on I will forward all of my day to day dilemmas to you for review. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve
Bullageddon Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.06 23:33:00 - [15] i you purchased media legally, you wouldn't have this problem. would you? === This Space For Lease or Sale.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2009.05.06 23:37:00 - [16] Originally by: WhiteSavage We are losing the internets In Honesty! we are! With some cable companys want to package access to internet! and this lobby groups want to end bit torrents. Problem is these company's slowly trying to tack control of the net!
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2009.05.06 23:44:00 - [17] Ahhh... nothing like the "they're rich so I have a RIGHT to steal from them" argument.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.05.06 23:50:00 - [18] Originally by: Mr Reeth Ahhh... nothing like the "they're rich so I have a RIGHT to steal from them" argument. points at my resently made post. If you ****ers paid for your games maybe we artists wouldn't be losing our jobs
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.05.07 00:55:00 - [19] Originally by: Mr Reeth Ahhh... nothing like the "they're rich so I have a RIGHT to steal from them" argument. Worked for robin hood And btw TPB is working again for me.
Evthron Macyntire	Posted - 2009.05.07 01:05:00 - [20] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Mr Reeth Ahhh... nothing like the "they're rich so I have a RIGHT to steal from them" argument. points at my resently made post. If you ****ers paid for your games maybe we artists wouldn't be losing our jobs Do you know what happens when the artists (painting art) lose government funding in Canada? The regular folk who pay for their grants tell them to get real jobs. If your not good enough to support yourself on whatever it is you do, then I guess you need to get a real job too. ------------------------------ Sigs like this.

Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.07 01:17:00 - [21] sigh People use the pirate bay for more than frickin Pirating. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Evthron Macyntire	Posted - 2009.05.07 01:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Blane Xero sigh People use the pirate bay for more than frickin Pirating. Well the name of the site certainly doesn't help their cause. But a few bad apples ruins the bunch right? ------------------------------ Sigs like this.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.07 01:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Evthron Macyntire Originally by: Blane Xero sigh People use the pirate bay for more than frickin Pirating. Well the name of the site certainly doesn't help their cause. But a few bad apples ruins the bunch right? In all honesty, the meaning of a "Pirate Bay" goes further than "Get cheap knock off plundered booty here" But hey. Should we shut down World of Warcraft because it promotes violence in its name?. (Well, nine tenths of the eve online community would scream hell yea on principle, but still). If the name is enough grounds for something to be shut down / sue'd for illegal behaviour, then a hell of a lot of things are in trouble. (oh wait, this is only specific to pirate bay, amirite?) ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Atomos Darksun Damage Incorporated.	Posted - 2009.05.07 01:53:00 - [24] Originally by: Evthron Macyntire Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Mr Reeth Ahhh... nothing like the "they're rich so I have a RIGHT to steal from them" argument. points at my resently made post. If you **ers paid for your games maybe we artists wouldn't be losing our jobs Do you know what happens when the artists (painting art) lose government funding in Canada? The regular folk who pay for their grants tell them to get real jobs. If your not good enough to support yourself on whatever it is you do, then I guess you need to get a real job too. Lol, I guess you want to go back to 8 bit graphics then... Originally by:** Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... CONVERT TO LINKIFICATION! http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameb
Reiisha Evolution KenZoku	Posted - 2009.05.07 03:17:00 - [25] It's more of a cartel question. If so many people are "stealing" it, it's too expensive. Since the goods are infinately copyable, the true value goes down by a lot. There is no comparison to cars or other physical goods. Those are expensive for a reason - Shipment, materials, construction, development, and all the rest that comes with it. Cars can't be copied. They can't be conveniently downloaded over the internet. However, digital goods can. Their only cost is development, and almost negligably, shipment, especially when sold online. They can be copied infinately. They can be modified with almost unrestricted boundaries. The problem today is that a lot of companies are viewing digital goods as physical goods, and price them accordingly. However, they are not physical goods. They are made only once, ever. There is only 1 "original", if it can even be called that. It's value is lessened because if it's inherent properties, which i already mentioned, quite substantially, yet they are still trying to sell it to people as if they are physical, one time goods. There will always be people who steal them. However, the answer is not to spend millions upon millions of development on technologies that hurt the actual legit customers more than the thieves, and actually drive the price up even more - Thereby decreasing the size of their own market. The answer is to make it cheaper to the point where more profit is made and less people steal it. It's fine to take a stance against stealing.... Of course it's wrong. However, the answer is not to form a cartel and make the legit customers pay even more and make it more difficult for them to use the product they are selling. This is the thinking error a lot of "morally upstanding" people here have been making. They think it's okay for the concept of a free market to be thrown away at the advent of a new technology, and they're okay with paying a lot more for things that simply aren't worth that much. People need to realize that the world is changing. Certain concepts and ideas have to be reinvented, not forced to adapt to old and outdated ideas. Just because it's happening right now and under everyone's noses isn't a reason to ignore progress, or even inhibit it. This is the first time since the Roman empire fell that the world is going backwards in it's development. "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
Atomos Darksun Damage Incorporated.	Posted - 2009.05.07 03:44:00 - [26] Edited by: Atomos Darksun on 07/05/2009 03:44:17 Originally by: Reiisha stuff Originally by: Akita T Well, sure, let's say you spent half a year making a beautiful oil painting. Selling that at 10,000$ seems not just reasonable, but downright unfair to you, since, hey, half a year, and only one copy. If you made cheaper/faster/whatever replicas at 1,000$ or even 500$, now, again, that would probably be fine too. Ah, yes, but what if you made it a digital painting, which also took half a year to make, and looks almost identical to the oil painting, and were charging the same 10,000$ for each copy ? A copy which is made with absolutely no effort whatsoever ? Now, suddendly, I kind of lost sympathy for you, and I probably wouldn't even bother paying you but download it from somewhere. You know, your alternative being, say, charge 200$ for a high-quality physical print which would maybe cost you 100$ to make ? Or just charge 5$ for the data file ? Or better, give the data file for free and remind people they can make donations as small as 1$ if they want, and sell the high-quality print at 120$ a piece plus postage ? There's respect for intellectual property, and then there's blattant ripoff. Just because somebody SPENT some time doing something doesn't mean its value to you is the same value he assigns to it. And when that "thing" has no intrinsic physical value since the "copy" process takes virtually no money to make, charging the same amount of cash for two very different people is unfair to the person who holds the value of that piece of IP to be much lower. So, yeah, maybe one guy is a CEO and displays your "original, one of a kind" physical oil painting on the wall of his office for bragging rights, charging him more than 10k would be fair. But charging some cafe owner with loads of similar paintings much more than the cost of the materials and labor is not really all that fair. As for the digital version, if somebody uses it in, say, a movie or a commercial or whatnot and makes them loads of money, of course you should charge them a lot for their usage... but what about the poor sod that uses it as a screensaver or as a wallpaper for a couple of days, would charging him the same amount be fair ? Obviously, it wouldn't. ESPECIALLY since the cost of duplication is basically zero. And that's the main difference between "property" and "intellectual property", especially when the latter doesn't even have much of a physical form. If cost of duplication is negligible, then the pricetag for usage of the IP should be directly proportional to the uses one gives to that IP, anything else is unfair. And as the use varies wildly from person to person, having one single pricetag for all of it is inherently unfair. If you want some proof, look at the games Stardock makes. Barely any protection whatsoever, yet they make a load of cash on them IN SPITE of being "pirated" to hell and back. Or, probably, better said, they make so much money BECAUSED they are being "pirated". In another example, the makers of "The Man From Earth" going so far as to THANK "the pirates" for their contribution toward his bottom line. If you want even better proof, just look at the experiments Steam has been making, putting games up for sale at hugely discounted prices : by DECREASING price, they not only increased the number of sales, they increased TOTAL REVENUE... not just that, but the lower the price per unit became, the HIGHER the total revenue went. I can think of no better practical proof for the moral bankrupcy of the idea of single-price IP usage rights. It's not only hurting the consumer, it's ALSO hurting the IP owner. And the sad part is the IP owners, for the most part, don't even realize that. <3 Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... CONVERT TO LINKIFICATION! http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameb
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.05.07 04:08:00 - [27] Artists are ALWAYS the first to suffer in a society. We don't need them to survive, we don't need them to live on, and generally all they do is make our boring, droll lives just a little more tolerable. Doesn't mean the work they do is any less as far as effort is concerned, but when NEED comes into play and hard times come up to bat, it will ALWAYS be the artist who suffers first, over the bread maker or the field worker. This also holds true for luxury items and the like. Humans irrevocably realize that what we WANT does not equate to what we NEED, and we put inherent values to the two. And if a person can rationalize how stealing a loaf of bread to survive another week is okay, or how robbing a doctor at gunpoint for the medicine to save his wife and child is acceptable, you really think he's going to give a **** about that song you just made up? Art doesn't equal 'less reason' in many peoples minds, it equals 'less value'. Hell, artists rarely even respect each other, blatantly stealing styles and new methods from one another in order to satisfy their own urge for 'beauty.' I have not once heard some artist petition to have the chord b flat copyrighted, yet somewhere, somewhen, somebody first put it to use and turned it into art. Like it or not, we are ALL in this world for ourselves. The artist produces, by doesn't hesitate to ripoff good ideas and great strokes from those around him, yet somehow reaches to claim said things for himself. No man is different. Is my ability to stack boxes and put more things in a room than should normally fit anything less than art? But in the same breath, it's considered 'laymen' and useless. No man holds an artist in higher value than a man who is an artist himself. Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze
WhiteSavage Gallente Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.05.07 07:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Artists are ALWAYS the first to suffer in a society. We don't need them to survive, we don't need them to live on, and generally all they do is make our boring, droll lives just a little more tolerable. Doesn't mean the work they do is any less as far as effort is concerned, but when NEED comes into play and hard times come up to bat, it will ALWAYS be the artist who suffers first, over the bread maker or the field worker. This also holds true for luxury items and the like. Humans irrevocably realize that what we WANT does not equate to what we NEED, and we put inherent values to the two. And if a person can rationalize how stealing a loaf of bread to survive another week is okay, or how robbing a doctor at gunpoint for the medicine to save his wife and child is acceptable, you really think he's going to give a **** about that song you just made up? Art doesn't equal 'less reason' in many peoples minds, it equals 'less value'. Hell, artists rarely even respect each other, blatantly stealing styles and new methods from one another in order to satisfy their own urge for 'beauty.' I have not once heard some artist petition to have the chord b flat copyrighted, yet somewhere, somewhen, somebody first put it to use and turned it into art. Like it or not, we are ALL in this world for ourselves. The artist produces, by doesn't hesitate to ripoff good ideas and great strokes from those around him, yet somehow reaches to claim said things for himself. No man is different. Is my ability to stack boxes and put more things in a room than should normally fit anything less than art? But in the same breath, it's considered 'laymen' and useless. No man holds an artist in higher value than a man who is an artist himself. Artists make nothing off CD sales. Their personal income comes from entertainment deals, concerts, memorobelia etc. Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.07 07:45:00 - [29] This will be Napster all over again. The record companies had an awesome chance back in 1999-2000; everyone was using Napster. They could have dealt with a single entity, skimmed off a few cents per transaction for a distribution model that was basically free (if your marginal cost is zero, then making 5 cents on 1000 sales is as good as making 5 dollars on 10 sales) and made bank. Instead they shot their own ****s off. Now the film companies are repeating this same hilariously terrible strategy.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.07 07:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon droll I don't think this word means what you think it means.

Xelios Minmatar Broski Enterprises Avarice.	Posted - 2009.05.07 08:18:00 - [31] As counter intuitive as it seems piracy has little to do with artists, it's the content distribution industry that's suffering. For decades artists needed them to get their art to the masses, but that's not the case anymore. Nowadays it's much, much cheaper to set up your own recording studio, worldwide distribution is easy and free and word of mouth advertising through YouTube videos or message boards is easier than it's ever been. Musicians don't need record labels anymore, and the labels know it. This push to regulate the internet is really just an attempt by record labels and other distributors to control a new distribution medium, to keep themselves from becoming obsolete. Of course they do it in the name of artists, the same artists who get less than $1 from every $20 CD their label sells. Story's the same with other forms of media. Some companies are trying to adapt to the internet with successes like Steam and Hulu, the rest are just flailing wildly at the courts and politicians because they're unwilling to accept that times have changed.
Smalum Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.05.07 09:33:00 - [32] As a musician i am upset about how the record industry lobbyists try to take away the best tool for promotion ever created. As already been stated, they are becomming obsolete and are just trying to fight for their survival, but to make it sound like it's in the name of the artists is simply pathetic. Roger Wallis (he's a professor who have done a load of studies about how technological advancements influences the media industries) explained during the PB trial: the ammount of money going directly to the artists has increased significantly because eventho the labels make less money by record sales, the income of concerts have drasticly increased. Less than 10% of the record sales income goes to the artists, but about half of the concert incomes goes to the artists. As an artist i am more interested in traveling around and play/meet ppl rather than them owning a cd of me (which in that case i rather sell to them in person anyway), and i honestly think most artists would agree. As a consumer/private person i am upset about how they want to transform the greatest source of information and cultural share (and no not just illegal) into some kind of pay-per-view cabel-tv-like network.
EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.07 14:02:00 - [33] Ok lets break it down... on why Adobe is priced correctly... ( Figures below are not factually correct, but just a glimmer in the cost at producing said product ) Adobe CS 4 Master Collection ( Time frame from concept to live product 18 months ) 60 Programmers @ 75k $ USD a year - 6,750,000 Million $ USD 30 Artists @ 75k $ USD a year - 3,375,000 Million $ USD 15 Managers @ 100k $ USD a year - 2,250,000 Million $ USD 20 Tech Support@ 50k $ USD a year - 1,500,000 Million $ USD Health Ins. @ 750k $ USD a year - 1,125,000 Million $ USD Computer Fee's @ 100k $ USD a year - 150,000 Thousand $ USD Hosting Fee's @ 100k $ USD a year - 150,000 Thousand $ USD Advert Fee's @ 500k $ USD a year - 750,000 Thousand $ USD Distro Fee's @ 1 M $ USD a Year - 1,250,000 Million $ USD Total Cost - 16,175,000 Million Dollars $ USD Product Cost - 600$ ( Single User License ) Product Retail - 750-850$ ( Single User License ) Profit - 150-250$ ( For all Intensive purposes we will use 200$ ) 16,175,000/200= 80,875 Copies. While this doesnt seem like alot of product, you have to think at the Complete Volume of sales, and maybe Adobe's Volume sales isnt that High as they serve only very small community of user's.
Akutarou Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.07 14:05:00 - [34] Originally by: Taedrin OR, if you don't want to pay adobe hundreds of USD, you can go to www.gimp.org. Their student/academic deals are pretty good, though. Ç200 for the four usual suspects is not bad. Of course, some academic deals are better than others and Adobe's academic pricing is probably a direct answer to software piracy. Originally by: Taedrin I am personally of the opinion that if you want to rebel against profit mongering corporations, then instead of pirating their software, you should get open source alternatives. Depends on what kind of applications we're talking about, in my case. I don't know any good open source alternative to Reason so I emptied my wallet. When it comes to academic writing, however, I haven't found a better alternative - free or premium - than Latex (funky capital usage be damned) or Xetex, rather. The fontspec package is better than sliced bread - I ended up typesetting the complete EVE Black Mountain story because of it, just for kicks . It is as flexible as you want it to be and user powered. Also, free.
EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.07 14:07:00 - [35] Originally by: Xelios intitle:index.of mp3 filetype:torrent Looks like Google is guilty of copyright infringement too As a Former DB Admin for Google I can attest to you that Google takes its fare part in removing Pirate Torrents from its DB.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.05.07 14:28:00 - [36] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon droll I don't think this word means what you think it means. Actually, after looking it up, it seems you are right. It definitely doesn't mean what I thought it did. Odd. Well, thanks for the heads up, hahahah ... Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze
Kappas. Galaxy Punks	Posted - 2009.05.07 14:34:00 - [37] Originally by: EliteSlave While this doesnt seem like alot of product, you have to think at the Complete Volume of sales, and maybe Adobe's Volume sales isnt that High as they serve only very small community of user's You can't argue the fact that their sales of new products would go up vastly if they offered it for significantly less. There are thousands and thousands of students that can't afford to pay $600 for a computer program (let's face it; every university as part of some media studies or programming use flash), so they are left with either the choice to get an old, out dated version or pirate it. Conspiracy theorists say adobe make it easy to pirate it so more students will use it, go to their employer saying it's the only program they can use and they'll (the employer) have to buy multiple copies of it. __________________
Akutarou Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.07 14:54:00 - [38] Originally by: Kappas. You can't argue the fact that their sales of new products would go up vastly if they offered it for significantly less. There are thousands and thousands of students that can't afford to pay $600 for a computer program (let's face it; every university as part of some media studies or programming use flash), so they are left with either the choice to get an old, out dated version or pirate it. Try reading my previous post. Photoshop + Illustrator + InDesign + Acrobat for Ç200 (academic pricing) isn't $600. Stand alone Photoshop seems to start at Ç170. Admittedly, this is for Europe it seems and I didn't check what other regions are eligible for the discount. Linky On the other hand I don't know for how long their academic pricing has been available. Maybe I didn't look hard enough before.
EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.07 15:38:00 - [39] Edited by: EliteSlave on 07/05/2009 15:40:40 Originally by: Kappas. Originally by: EliteSlave While this doesnt seem like alot of product, you have to think at the Complete Volume of sales, and maybe Adobe's Volume sales isnt that High as they serve only very small community of user's You can't argue the fact that their sales of new products would go up vastly if they offered it for significantly less. There are thousands and thousands of students that can't afford to pay $600 for a computer program (let's face it; every university as part of some media studies or programming use flash), so they are left with either the choice to get an old, out dated version or pirate it. Conspiracy theorists say adobe make it easy to pirate it so more students will use it, go to their employer saying it's the only program they can use and they'll (the employer) have to buy multiple copies of it. Really depends on what their investors set for their pricing. And if they need to cover any other budget downfalls with said money. Also, Academia students can get Academic pricing which is usually in the very cheap area, Like in my area, the local community college, sells the student photoshop which is ( CSM4 ) For 75$ USD. But you get a silly ( Adobe Watermark ) in the lower right hand corner, ie: if you see my Signature's original file, before i used MS Paint to crop it out, you would see the water mark. But to most people that are not students, would not be happy with a watermark in their work, and thus would goto the internets to find a pirate copy, hence " The Pirate Bay ". But what they dont understand is if you want full functionality with out watermarks is well, you gotta pay the retail price just like every other joe schmoe.
Kazang Gallente Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:32:00 - [40] Originally by: Mr Reeth Ahhh... nothing like the "they're rich so I have a RIGHT to steal from them" argument. Spoken like a true middle class bigot. Well done sir. As a poet and musician who makes **** all money from it i have no problem with file sharing. It really has no negative impact on me. I have no problem with people downloading our music or reading my work without paying for it. If they care and like it they will buy it or support us by going to a gig. Personally i never download anything i could afford to buy. If ever download an album its purely to see if i like it. If i listen to it more than once i will always buy it, becasue i love music i want to support the artist. The same with games, i never use pirate video games becasue i want to support the devs i want them to be able to make more great games. I will try to by it from a direct download service so 100% of my money goes to the devs and not the money grabbing distributors. I believe 100% that file sharing helps the media industry. The on the short term it is easy say it may harm it,and it does do short term damage and limits immediate financial return, but in the end it will help the industry grown and the art to spread. Give more rewards to the artists and less to the distributors, who right now have a stranglehold on the distribution and leech off artist's hard work. Kazang

EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.07 18:08:00 - [41] No you are stealing, Did you ask the Artist for permission to "Preview" his entire album? Did you ask the Devs to preview their software? If the answer is No, then you have stolen. Its Clear cut and simple.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.07 19:46:00 - [42] Originally by: EliteSlave Ok lets break it down... on why Adobe is priced correctly... ( Figures below are not factually correct, but just a glimmer in the cost at producing said product ) Adobe CS 4 Master Collection ( Time frame from concept to live product 18 months ) 60 Programmers @ 75k $ USD a year - 6,750,000 Million $ USD 30 Artists @ 75k $ USD a year - 3,375,000 Million $ USD 15 Managers @ 100k $ USD a year - 2,250,000 Million $ USD 20 Tech Support@ 50k $ USD a year - 1,500,000 Million $ USD Health Ins. @ 750k $ USD a year - 1,125,000 Million $ USD Computer Fee's @ 100k $ USD a year - 150,000 Thousand $ USD Hosting Fee's @ 100k $ USD a year - 150,000 Thousand $ USD Advert Fee's @ 500k $ USD a year - 750,000 Thousand $ USD Distro Fee's @ 1 M $ USD a Year - 1,250,000 Million $ USD Total Cost - 16,175,000 Million Dollars $ USD Product Cost - 600$ ( Single User License ) Product Retail - 750-850$ ( Single User License ) Profit - 150-250$ ( For all Intensive purposes we will use 200$ ) 16,175,000/200= 80,875 Copies. While this doesnt seem like alot of product, you have to think at the Complete Volume of sales, and maybe Adobe's Volume sales isnt that High as they serve only very small community of user's. Now let me point something out. Bolded is what ADOBE Sells it for. THATS THE PROFIT THEY MAKE. The 150-200-250 is what the RETAILER MAKES. 16,175,000 / 600 = 2696 (Rounding Up) copies. Suddenly not so much is it?. And that doesn't include how much they get paid by companies for company wide Licenses. The only accurate thing in your post was Originally by: EliteSlave ( Figures below are not factually correct, but just a glimmer in the cost at producing said product ) ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Adam C Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.05.07 20:05:00 - [43] yarr well put op
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.05.07 21:17:00 - [44] Originally by: Blane Xero Now let me point something out. Bolded is what ADOBE Sells it for. THATS THE PROFIT THEY MAKE. The 150-200-250 is what the RETAILER MAKES. 16,175,000 / 600 = 2696 (Rounding Up) copies. Suddenly not so much is it?. And that doesn't include how much they get paid by companies for company wide Licenses. The only accurate thing in your post was Originally by: EliteSlave ( Figures below are not factually correct, but just a glimmer in the cost at producing said product ) lol he thought it cost $600 to burn a disc and get a machine to produce a box. Adobe are rolling in money, hence they bought macromedia a while ago.
Xelios Minmatar Broski Enterprises Avarice.	Posted - 2009.05.07 22:12:00 - [45] Edited by: Xelios on 07/05/2009 22:14:21 Don't buy CD's from artists signed with the RIAA, go to their concerts instead, buy t-shirts or other merch from them. The RIAA doesn't deserve a penny, much less 95% of the cost of a CD. The world will be a much better place without them. This is how music will be treated in the information age. Also, Originally by: Blane Xero 16,175,000 / 600 = 2696 (Rounding Up) copies. It's actually ~27,000 copies, still not much when you consider it's being sold world wide.
Cpt Placeholder	Posted - 2009.05.07 22:43:00 - [46] Originally by: Xelios It's actually ~27,000 copies, still not much when you consider it's being sold world wide. It's even less if you consider that a lot of the modules/code will be and was reused from other projects. But nobody said prices have to be "fair".
Kulmid Asshats and Alcoholics Turbo.	Posted - 2009.05.07 22:58:00 - [47] Originally by: Cpt Placeholder It's even less if you consider that a lot of the modules/code will be and was reused from other projects. But nobody said prices have to be "fair". Except for the consumers. We are telling companies to make their prices fair or we will get it another way, usually for free. _________________
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.07 23:24:00 - [48] Originally by: Xelios Edited by: Xelios on 07/05/2009 22:14:21 Don't buy CD's from artists signed with the RIAA, go to their concerts instead, buy t-shirts or other merch from them. The RIAA doesn't deserve a penny, much less 95% of the cost of a CD. The world will be a much better place without them. This is how music will be treated in the information age. Also, Originally by: Blane Xero 16,175,000 / 600 = 2696 (Rounding Up) copies. It's actually ~27,000 copies, still not much when you consider it's being sold world wide. My bad. Must have missed a Zero somewhere. But like you said, compared to his, thats **** in the wind. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
FOl2TY8 Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.05.08 00:23:00 - [49] Originally by: Kulmid Originally by: Cpt Placeholder It's even less if you consider that a lot of the modules/code will be and was reused from other projects. But nobody said prices have to be "fair". Except for the consumers. We are telling companies to make their prices fair or we will get it another way, usually for free. So people that are willing to steal are allowed to dictate what is fair? ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve
Onus Mian Amarr Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2009.05.08 01:26:00 - [50] More flimsy excuses to detract from that fact thaat whatever slant you put on its still stealing to download something without paying that that requires purchase to legally own a copy without. ---- Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? - Douglas Adams

Kulmid Asshats and Alcoholics Turbo.	Posted - 2009.05.08 03:17:00 - [51] Originally by: FOl2TY8 Originally by: Kulmid Originally by: Cpt Placeholder It's even less if you consider that a lot of the modules/code will be and was reused from other projects. But nobody said prices have to be "fair". Except for the consumers. We are telling companies to make their prices fair or we will get it another way, usually for free. So people that are willing to steal are allowed to dictate what is fair? If stealing bread was a problem throughout the world, I would theorize that the risk of punishment/the punishment for stealing it is worth it over just paying for the cost of bread. Since bread theft is not a problem throughout the world, I would say that the price of bread is fair/worth it. I'm not saying that thieves should decide what is fair/what isn't fair. Just simply saying that if theft of a product is a problem, its a sign that the product is not worth the cost. _________________
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.08 04:01:00 - [52] Originally by: FOl2TY8 Originally by: Kulmid Except for the consumers. We are telling companies to make their prices fair or we will get it another way, usually for free. So people that are willing to steal are allowed to dictate what is fair? If the risk and costs associated with being caught stealing are acceptable in comparison to the costs associated with purchasing all of your music from FYE/BestBuy/whatever... absolutely. It's a damn smart business decision. Why do you think everyone steals their music and movies? For the rush and thrill? lol Those of us that have no qualms saying 'yes, we steal' seems like such a TERRIBLEPANICOMG to everyone, but remember, if flat out criminal activity was in the best interest of the recording label, they would make the same decision. Smart but criminal decisions: Just as popular with consumers as it is with large corporations. Welcome to unbridled capitalism. Law doesn't matter, only $$$ matters. ---------- Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf***er.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.08 04:06:00 - [53] Originally by: Onus Mian More flimsy excuses to detract from that fact thaat whatever slant you put on its still stealing to download something without paying that that requires purchase to legally own a copy without. Hi, i steal **. Me <--- I do Flimsy excuses are for the flimsy minded. Some of us know exactly what we are doing and why we are doing it. Illegal? Look very closely at me and tell me where you see that i give a . The global market has spoken and the people have told the RIAA/MPAA/whomever what we think of their profits and price gouging. They can cry and kick and scream but at the end of the day the bottom line is, what are THEY going to do about it? -Try to stop the flood by sticking their fingers in the dike? OR -take a smart approach and restructure their business model before they go the way of the dodo. ---------- Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf*er.
Atomos Darksun Damage Incorporated.	Posted - 2009.05.08 04:26:00 - [54] I'm curious as to how many times the people who are screaming "IT'S STEALING!" have broken the law themselves. Speeding, drugs, cutting off that b@stard from the flea market, it's all the same. All you're stealing is the value assigned to some electricity. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... CONVERT TO LINKIFICATION! http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameb
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.08 04:32:00 - [55] Originally by: Atomos Darksun I'm curious as to how many times the people who are screaming "IT'S STEALING!" have broken the law themselves. Speeding, drugs, cutting off that b@stard from the flea market, it's all the same. All you're stealing is the value assigned to some electricity. Or one much closer to home in many cases; Lending a friend a music CD, and him burning it to his computer. By everyone elses logic you broke the law lending him it ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Akutarou Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.08 07:29:00 - [56] Well if you want to get in numbers I'd be very interested to know how much of the shelf price of a CD goes into PR nowadays. Since the songs aren't meant to have a shelf-life (make that 'radio life') longer than a month or so (that's why 99% of many radio stations is easy listening crap that doesn't hold a candle to earlier music) there's a small timeframe during which you will have to sell a lot, hence all the PR. Lose the PR budget and how much is left? [The irony being, of course, that some of those 'classics' we listen to today were somewhat of the easy listening kind during their days. On the other hand listen to dynamics of the sound, harmonies etc and todays radio songs come off as baby pop in most cases. In my opinion, the only area where have actually gained ground is within the electronic music field. Note: Some of this is subjective...] Everyone I know has a computer new enough to run most audio software needed to record/compose/[add preferred method of making music]. For around $1000 (can be done for much less) you will be able to purchase both the software and the hardware needed and today the standard is high even on lower end applications. If I was serious about making and selling music, rather than try to get a contract I'd do it all myself and only sell via download. Audio engineers are (or should be) crying blood because most of the time they have to push the "make it go LOUD"-button squashing any dynamics in the original recording. And this I have to pay for? I wouldn't even download that for free. Luckily there are those who have a passion for music, both artists and record companies/distributors. Only those aren't the ones you hear/see in most cases.
Sleepkevert Amarr Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.05.08 08:29:00 - [57] Edited by: Sleepkevert on 08/05/2009 08:29:50 Originally by: Akutarou Audio engineers are (or should be) crying blood because most of the time they have to push the "make it go LOUD"-button squashing any dynamics in the original recording. And this I have to pay for? I wouldn't even download that for free. This. It still isn't a (valid) reason to start pirating though but it is definately a reason for me as well to steer around a lot of the music these days. There are some good albums / artists out there with decent masters though. _ Add your own line!
Ranik Sandaris Caldari The Centurions Eternus Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.08 09:24:00 - [58] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Mr Reeth Ahhh... nothing like the "they're rich so I have a RIGHT to steal from them" argument. points at my resently made post. If you ****ers paid for your games maybe we artists wouldn't be losing our jobs How about you start making some decent games, instead of things with a higher number on the end? Zoom Zoom
Calvin Firenze Minmatar Titan Space Corporation Parallax.	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:56:00 - [59] I think I've paid for maybe 10% of the music in my library. This might sound like a poor excuse, but if artists would stop putting out **ty music I might be a little more encouraged to buy the whole cd as opposed to downloading the couple of songs I want. I recently had a DMCA violation that my ISP caught. Apparently, if you have DVD's, its illegal to rip them to your computer as an avi file to watch them on your computer because you're changing the original format. In the same breath I was informed that its not illegal to make an iso of your pc games to burn them later. ing ****ed.
EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.08 14:06:00 - [60] Originally by: Calvin Firenze I think I've paid for maybe 10% of the music in my library. This might sound like a poor excuse, but if artists would stop putting out **ty music I might be a little more encouraged to buy the whole cd as opposed to downloading the couple of songs I want. I recently had a DMCA violation that my ISP caught. Apparently, if you have DVD's, its illegal to rip them to your computer as an avi file to watch them on your computer because you're changing the original format. In the same breath I was informed that its not illegal to make an iso of your pc games to burn them later. ing ****ed. You got a DMCA violation because you were transfering the DVD's to friends... not because you ripped the DVD to store on your PC. your entire arguement is the usual " A friend gave me 10 billion ISK now CCP made me negative 10 billion isk in the wallet !!!, when in fact you bought the isk"

Calvin Firenze Minmatar Titan Space Corporation Parallax.	Posted - 2009.05.08 15:44:00 - [61] Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: Calvin Firenze I think I've paid for maybe 10% of the music in my library. This might sound like a poor excuse, but if artists would stop putting out **ty music I might be a little more encouraged to buy the whole cd as opposed to downloading the couple of songs I want. I recently had a DMCA violation that my ISP caught. Apparently, if you have DVD's, its illegal to rip them to your computer as an avi file to watch them on your computer because you're changing the original format. In the same breath I was informed that its not illegal to make an iso of your pc games to burn them later. ing ****ed. You got a DMCA violation because you were transfering the DVD's to friends... not because you ripped the DVD to store on your PC. your entire arguement is the usual " A friend gave me 10 billion ISK now CCP made me negative 10 billion isk in the wallet !!!, when in fact you bought the isk" In fact, I didn't distribute anything to anyone. I don't share my music or movies on my computer. I'll admit I may have inadvertently but if I did there weren't any files in my shared folders when I got the notice.
Kazang Gallente Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.05.08 18:44:00 - [62] Originally by: EliteSlave No you are stealing, Did you ask the Artist for permission to "Preview" his entire album? Did you ask the Devs to preview their software? If the answer is No, then you have stolen. Its Clear cut and simple. Let me ask you this. Have you ever lent or borrowed a cd, dvd or game? If the answer is yes then you are just as guilty as the people you are labelling thieves. Current copyright laws render legit users and people technically "thieves" or "pirates" if they lend of borrow any copyright material. I share my CD collection with my brother, all the music i listen to has been bought by either him or me. I am listening to Biffy Blyro's Vertigo of Bliss album right now. My brother bought that not me. Does it make me a thief or pirate by listening it? Current copyright law says yes. Do you expect people to have a bought copy of the record for every person that listens to it? I support the artist by going to gigs (I've seen biffy clyro 3 times), aswell as buying cds. Sharing and generosity should not be a crime. Chew on this little fact as food for thought. Radiohead's latest album (In Rainbows) was released on the internet for download where you could choose how much you paid for the download. You could pay 0 if you liked, or you could pay 10 pound or 1000 pound, whatever you wanted. Yet radiohead made more from that record before it was even released than they made in total from their previous album Hail to the Thief. The fact that you think downloading any kind of music or any media hurts the artist is naive to the point of ludicrousness. An artist is lucky to make 20-25% from sales the rest goes to distributors and retailers. Torrents and digital distribution is the future where artists prosper and businesses who do nothing but be a middle man will become extinct. The pirate bay vedict is step further away from this ideal and is milestone for corruption and the most greedy and vile forms of capitalism. Grats to you if you in the middle man bracket i guess, but as artist its a great loss. Kazang
Dong Ninja	Posted - 2009.05.08 18:47:00 - [63] Think of it this way: I guarantee you the MPAA/RIAA/etc wouldn't be complaining if filesharing made them money (which ironically it does, but they can't control it how they want, thus it's bad and therefore you are a criminal for doing so!). Originally by: Xen Gin Indeed, upgrading an MS OS is like taking a **** into a cake mixture, then complaining that it doesn't taste good when it's all done.
Delvardious Kaesos Caldari The Phoenix Program	Posted - 2009.05.08 18:54:00 - [64] Edited by: Delvardious Kaesos on 08/05/2009 18:54:07 When music quality goes up, so will my interest in purchasing CDs. But unfortunately, bands these days seem to release just one or two good songs and I'm not paying $16-$20 for one or two good songs when I can pay nothing for them. I actually used to be quite active in purchasing CDs back in the 90's. I've got a lot of old school music CDs, before and even during the Napster era(yes I downloaded from Napster, and never bought another Metallica album ever again). I don't care about whether musician is a millionaire, but I am not, and I am not paying good hard earned money for an overpriced CD that contains maybe one or two songs I enjoyed. Put more effort into the music or don't expect me to buy.
EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.08 20:29:00 - [65] Originally by: Kazang Originally by: EliteSlave No you are stealing, Did you ask the Artist for permission to "Preview" his entire album? Did you ask the Devs to preview their software? If the answer is No, then you have stolen. Its Clear cut and simple. Let me ask you this. Have you ever lent or borrowed a cd, dvd or game? If the answer is yes then you are just as guilty as the people you are labelling thieves. Current copyright laws render legit users and people technically "thieves" or "pirates" if they lend of borrow any copyright material. I share my CD collection with my brother, all the music i listen to has been bought by either him or me. I am listening to Biffy Blyro's Vertigo of Bliss album right now. My brother bought that not me. Does it make me a thief or pirate by listening it? Current copyright law says yes. Do you expect people to have a bought copy of the record for every person that listens to it? I support the artist by going to gigs (I've seen biffy clyro 3 times), aswell as buying cds. Sharing and generosity should not be a crime. Chew on this little fact as food for thought. Radiohead's latest album (In Rainbows) was released on the internet for download where you could choose how much you paid for the download. You could pay 0 if you liked, or you could pay 10 pound or 1000 pound, whatever you wanted. Yet radiohead made more from that record before it was even released than they made in total from their previous album Hail to the Thief. The fact that you think downloading any kind of music or any media hurts the artist is naive to the point of ludicrousness. An artist is lucky to make 20-25% from sales the rest goes to distributors and retailers. Torrents and digital distribution is the future where artists prosper and businesses who do nothing but be a middle man will become extinct. The pirate bay vedict is step further away from this ideal and is milestone for corruption and the most greedy and vile forms of capitalism. Grats to you if you in the middle man bracket i guess, but as artist its a great loss. To answer your question if I have ever lended a CD and or DvD or Game. The answer is no, Most will call me a liar since this is the Internet. Yes I know that Radiohead offered their Album as a pay what you think its worth marketing scheme, as there are a few deli's / cafe's in my locale, But see that is their business model and have built their model to support that. I agree that the companies need to rework their business model to better accomadate the end user. But till then Law is Law, and if you break it you are messing with society, and The Nail that sticks out will be hammered.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.08 20:46:00 - [66] Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: Kazang Originally by: EliteSlave No you are stealing, Did you ask the Artist for permission to "Preview" his entire album? Did you ask the Devs to preview their software? If the answer is No, then you have stolen. Its Clear cut and simple. Let me ask you this. Have you ever lent or borrowed a cd, dvd or game? If the answer is yes then you are just as guilty as the people you are labelling thieves. Current copyright laws render legit users and people technically "thieves" or "pirates" if they lend of borrow any copyright material. I share my CD collection with my brother, all the music i listen to has been bought by either him or me. I am listening to Biffy Blyro's Vertigo of Bliss album right now. My brother bought that not me. Does it make me a thief or pirate by listening it? Current copyright law says yes. Do you expect people to have a bought copy of the record for every person that listens to it? I support the artist by going to gigs (I've seen biffy clyro 3 times), aswell as buying cds. Sharing and generosity should not be a crime. Chew on this little fact as food for thought. Radiohead's latest album (In Rainbows) was released on the internet for download where you could choose how much you paid for the download. You could pay 0 if you liked, or you could pay 10 pound or 1000 pound, whatever you wanted. Yet radiohead made more from that record before it was even released than they made in total from their previous album Hail to the Thief. The fact that you think downloading any kind of music or any media hurts the artist is naive to the point of ludicrousness. An artist is lucky to make 20-25% from sales the rest goes to distributors and retailers. Torrents and digital distribution is the future where artists prosper and businesses who do nothing but be a middle man will become extinct. The pirate bay vedict is step further away from this ideal and is milestone for corruption and the most greedy and vile forms of capitalism. Grats to you if you in the middle man bracket i guess, but as artist its a great loss. To answer your question if I have ever lended a CD and or DvD or Game. The answer is no, Most will call me a liar since this is the Internet. Yes I know that Radiohead offered their Album as a pay what you think its worth marketing scheme, as there are a few deli's / cafe's in my locale, But see that is their business model and have built their model to support that. I agree that the companies need to rework their business model to better accomadate the end user. But till then Law is Law, and if you break it you are messing with society, and The Nail that sticks out will be hammered. How very true.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.08 21:07:00 - [67] Originally by: HankMurphy Hi, i steal **. Me <--- I do Flimsy excuses are for the flimsy minded. Some of us know exactly what we are doing and why we are doing it. Illegal? Look very closely at me and tell me where you see that i give a **. Thank you. I've said it before I don't care if you guys actually do it, just don't try to justify it being right. Its much easier being an honest thief anyways.
Kazang Gallente Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.05.09 00:06:00 - [68] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: EliteSlave But till then Law is Law, and if you break it you are messing with society, and The Nail that sticks out will be hammered. How very true. Indeed, i would much rather be the nail than the hammer. The mindlessly following sheep gets slaughtered and the lone wolf gets hunted, continue being the sheep if it makes you happy. Kazang
THE L0CK	Posted - 2009.05.09 00:32:00 - [69] Originally by: Kazang Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: EliteSlave But till then Law is Law, and if you break it you are messing with society, and The Nail that sticks out will be hammered. How very true. Indeed, i would much rather be the nail than the hammer. The mindlessly following sheep gets slaughtered and the lone wolf gets hunted, continue being the sheep if it makes you happy. I'm down with that. I'm already a sheep because I don't open my eyes to the truth of every single tin foil conspiracy. I'm already a sheep because I don't follow the guidelines of Earth hour, global warming, global cooling, and climate change. I'm already a sheep because I'm neither fully Liberal or fully Democrat. I'm already a sheep because I don't follow X religion. I'm not a member of PETA, or ELF, or any other save something to make our lives meaningful group, and that makes me a sheep. So what's one more thing to say Baaaah to.
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2009.05.09 01:57:00 - [70] Today I listened to somewhere in the region of 100 songs, from the internet, none of which I paid anything for and at this rate, never intend to. Tomorrow I'll do the same. What a dastardly criminal I must be, not paying a penny of my hard earned money for listening to countless of my favorite artists. Obviously it's a disgrace that I should listen to entire albums, on demand, anytime I want, before even considering whether I want to hand over any money for it, or see the band live as I often do should I develop a particular fondness for them. Hang on... ...what's that noise? Ah yes, that'll be the glorious sound of innovative people coming up with a ****ing good (and well executed) idea. I'm not joking when I say this has overnight dramatically changed the way I listen to music, it is awesome. Clever people DO exist, who would've thunk it. Just a shame none of them work for the RIAA et al. - MC

rValdez5987 Amarr Imperial Guard.	Posted - 2009.05.09 03:28:00 - [71] Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: Kazang Originally by: EliteSlave No you are stealing, Did you ask the Artist for permission to "Preview" his entire album? Did you ask the Devs to preview their software? If the answer is No, then you have stolen. Its Clear cut and simple. Let me ask you this. Have you ever lent or borrowed a cd, dvd or game? If the answer is yes then you are just as guilty as the people you are labelling thieves. Current copyright laws render legit users and people technically "thieves" or "pirates" if they lend of borrow any copyright material. I share my CD collection with my brother, all the music i listen to has been bought by either him or me. I am listening to Biffy Blyro's Vertigo of Bliss album right now. My brother bought that not me. Does it make me a thief or pirate by listening it? Current copyright law says yes. Do you expect people to have a bought copy of the record for every person that listens to it? I support the artist by going to gigs (I've seen biffy clyro 3 times), aswell as buying cds. Sharing and generosity should not be a crime. Chew on this little fact as food for thought. Radiohead's latest album (In Rainbows) was released on the internet for download where you could choose how much you paid for the download. You could pay 0 if you liked, or you could pay 10 pound or 1000 pound, whatever you wanted. Yet radiohead made more from that record before it was even released than they made in total from their previous album Hail to the Thief. The fact that you think downloading any kind of music or any media hurts the artist is naive to the point of ludicrousness. An artist is lucky to make 20-25% from sales the rest goes to distributors and retailers. Torrents and digital distribution is the future where artists prosper and businesses who do nothing but be a middle man will become extinct. The pirate bay vedict is step further away from this ideal and is milestone for corruption and the most greedy and vile forms of capitalism. Grats to you if you in the middle man bracket i guess, but as artist its a great loss. To answer your question if I have ever lended a CD and or DvD or Game. The answer is no, Most will call me a liar since this is the Internet. Yes I know that Radiohead offered their Album as a pay what you think its worth marketing scheme, as there are a few deli's / cafe's in my locale, But see that is their business model and have built their model to support that. I agree that the companies need to rework their business model to better accomadate the end user. But till then Law is Law, and if you break it you are messing with society, and The Nail that sticks out will be hammered. Then fight for your ****ing rights. Things are the way they are because NO ONE IS DOING ANYTHING TO STOP THESE COMPANIES. Look at the legistlation that other guy posted which is going forward in the EU. Look at how the United States is years behind and its all due to the same exact legislation already being passed in the USA. Greedy mega corporations want to keep their power and their money. They will stop at nothing short of forcing you at gunpoint to purchase their products. In time even that may change. I intend to continue purchasing things through digital distribution, but I seek alternatives to products sold by greedy companies. For example using open office instead of Microsoft office, or using linux instead of Windows (even though I get windows for free through msdnaa)


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