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Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 07:44:00 -
[1]
Many things in EVE are difficult to do alone. They require time, smarts, specialization, but most important of all, trust and cooperation. Or do they? When asking question of other people how they manage to get around many common obstacles in EVE, the answer I often hear: 'I use an alt'
Examples
How do you manage your buy and sell orders you are off doing PvP in another region?
- I have a trade alt.
How do you fund your 0.0 PvP adventures?
- I have a mission alt in high-sec that funds my ships.
How do you manage to expand your budding trade and manufacturing Empire?
- I use a network of manufacturing and trade alts.
How do you move your capitals around?
- I use a cyno alt.
How do you know where the enemy fleet would be?
- I use a spy alt.
How do you avoid those gatecamps?
- I use a scouting alt.
Why do you rarely lose PvP fights?
- I use a Remote Rep/Falcon alt.
How do you avoid damaging your reputation when doing scams?
- I use a scam alt
How do you infiltrate enemy organizations without ruining your characters rep?
- I have a spy alt.
How do you survive the boredom of defending an FW plex for 20 minutes with nothing to do?
- I have a mission alt that I play while waiting for the timer.
How do you manage your isk?
- I have a wallet alt.
Aren't you afraid of being tied down to that Mothership or Titan all the time?
- I use a Mothership/Titan alt
How do you avoid angering people while posting controversial stuff on the forums?
- I have a forum posting alt.
How do you avoid financial and corporate risks from untrustworthy players?
- I have accounting alts, holding corp alts, teller alts, etc.
How do you manage to move around stuff in high-sec during a war dec?
- I use an NPC corp hauler alt.
How do you always know the prices in Jita so fast?
- I use a market alt.
How do you avoid going back and forth between the warzone and your labs all the time to start jobs?
- I use an invention/science alt.
How did you supply yourself with ships, as you are -10.0 and there is no market in low-sec?
- I have a hauler/ship moving alt.
How do you manage to hunt down all those ships?
- I have a scanning alt.
How do you control your POS while away?
- I use a POS manager alt.
How do manage your supply lines during war?
- We have an industrial alt corp
Do you never get tired from the 0.0 POS Warfare?
- We have a Empire wardeccing/merc alt corp
Question
Are 'alts' the intended way to get around most of these obstacles the developers put into the game? Did CCP intend people to rely on (100% trustworthy) alts to handle many of the more delicate or risky aspects of the game?
Personally, I am trying hard to play altless, I don't like the meta-gamey aspects of alts. I love EVE for game design built upon risk and personal accountability, but for many people this doesn't seem to be the case. Alts overcome many of the issues requiring trust, cooporation or sacrifice/risk.
Are alts to ingrained in EVE now that if they were removed, the game will become unplayable for the majority of players? Is CCP already consciously accounting for alts when designing new game mechanics? How long before having alts become a necessity for players instead of a 'fun RP option'?
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.07 07:48:00 -
[2]
Do CCP, who make money from subscriptions, mind if we have more than one subscription to the game? 
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Joe
Umbra Legion
Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 07:50:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you move your capitals around?
- I use a cyno alt.
How do you avoid those gatecamps?
- I use a scouting alt.
Why do you rarely lose PvP fights?
- I use a Remote Rep/Falcon alt.
These examples are based on using a second Account, not a true alt. (an alt is on of the 2 other char slots on your account that contains your main)
Originally by: Merdaneth
Question
Are 'alts' the intended way to get around most of these obstacles the developers put into the game? Did CCP intend people to rely on (100% trustworthy) alts to handle many of the more delicate or risky aspects of the game?
Yes, they were intended, and CCP wanted to give players the options, otherwise they would have designed accounts with 1 char slot, instead of 3.
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Dear Abby
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Posted - 2009.05.07 07:51:00 -
[4]
should have used you posting alt.
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Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 07:56:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Joe
Yes, they were intended, and CCP wanted to give players the options, otherwise they would have designed accounts with 1 char slot, instead of 3.
Obviously the game feature is intended. That was not my question.
Was it intended they their use would become so wide-spread, and that they would be used by a single player to bypass so many common in-game challenges/obstacles?
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 07:56:00 -
[6]
I have at least 1 friend in EvE who has a very good 0.0 PvP record and has no alts that I know of. He definitely only has one account.
It can be done, and done well.
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Haks'he Lirky
Burning Bright Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:04:00 -
[7]
I think the real question is, do you want to experience more than one aspect of the game at the same time? Or, do you want to experience aspects of the game without hurting your chances of experiencing other content?
And then the question to CCP would be, do you want players to be able to experience multiple aspects of the game easily.
I think the answer to all is Yes.
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Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:06:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Malcanis
I have at least 1 friend in EvE who has a very good 0.0 PvP record and has no alts that I know of. He definitely only has one account.
It can be done, and done well.
My question to you would be: is he the rule or an exception among your circle of friends and fellow players?
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Haks'he Lirky
Burning Bright Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Malcanis
I have at least 1 friend in EvE who has a very good 0.0 PvP record and has no alts that I know of. He definitely only has one account.
It can be done, and done well.
My question to you would be: is he the rule or an exception among your circle of friends and fellow players?
I am not the object of your question, but I can answer from my experience.
I have been playing for 6 years now and I have never known a dedicated player that did not have two accounts or more, I have never known a dedicated player who did not make frequent use of all the character slots on his account.
In fact the only times I have seen a player not making use of an alt (or second account) is in their first months of playing EVE.
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Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
I think the real question is, do you want to experience more than one aspect of the game at the same time? Or, do you want to experience aspects of the game without hurting your chances of experiencing other content?
That is indeed one of the core questions. Why would CCP have a stringent policy about not being able to change character names due to keeping accountability, but yet provide alts to avoid accoutability.
Why would CCP create all kinds of obstacles that require cooperation or sacrifice of time/isk/safety for a single character, and allow all that to be relatively easily overcome through use of alts?
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
And then the question to CCP would be, do you want players to be able to experience multiple aspects of the game easily.
I think the answer to all is Yes.
Then why can't I start invention jobs from two regions away. Why can't I look at Jita prices from anywhere? Why can't I modify my market orders from anywhere. Why can'y I start a POS that counts as 'out of corp' and cannot be attacked when my corp is war decced? Why can't I manage my POS from any region? Why can't I just enter high-sec after going -10.0, why can't I disguise my character when going on a spying mission?
Why create so many in-game obstacles for a single character, and then allow a bypass through use alts? They say EVE is a harsh game, but its made so much softer by 100% trustworthy alts that remove many risks and consequences that one character would suffer.
No alt spy can ever betray your character. No alt industrialist would ever cheat you PVP character.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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FlyinS
Caldari
Planetary Industry and Trade Organization
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:14:00 -
[11]
Whoever actually has all those alts and/or accounts really seriously needs a Real Life alt.
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Helldrek Demonstar
Amarr
Raype Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:18:00 -
[12]
Played for 3 years without an alt and still don't feel the need for one...
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Malcanis
I have at least 1 friend in EvE who has a very good 0.0 PvP record and has no alts that I know of. He definitely only has one account.
It can be done, and done well.
My question to you would be: is he the rule or an exception among your circle of friends and fellow players?
Oh definitely the exception. I myself have 2 accounts, each with a "main" and an 800k alt, although really it's been months since I used either of the 800ks... I just keep them "just in case" I suppose. There's no real reason to delete them.
Nonetheless, the point stands: you can play perfectly well with a single character on a single account. Stuff like cap ships is gonna be a lot harder though, but not impossible.
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Haks'he Lirky
Burning Bright Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Why create so many in-game obstacles for a single character, and then allow a bypass through use alts?
I think CCP did not think everything completely through, they have added most features ad-hoc and without really thinking about consequences (and not really needing to because the players use the Alt workaround when needed).
I still love the game, but sometimes I get frustrated when I realize I need to train an alt to be able to experience certain content.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: FlyinS
Whoever actually has all those alts and/or accounts really seriously needs a Real Life alt.
Yeah I would seriously love a RL industry alt or two to go grind for me.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
I think the real question is, do you want to experience more than one aspect of the game at the same time? Or, do you want to experience aspects of the game without hurting your chances of experiencing other content?
That is indeed one of the core questions. Why would CCP have a stringent policy about not being able to change character names due to keeping accountability, but yet provide alts to avoid accoutability.
Why would CCP create all kinds of obstacles that require cooperation or sacrifice of time/isk/safety for a single character, and allow all that to be relatively easily overcome through use of alts?
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
And then the question to CCP would be, do you want players to be able to experience multiple aspects of the game easily.
I think the answer to all is Yes.
Then why can't I start invention jobs from two regions away. Why can't I look at Jita prices from anywhere? Why can't I modify my market orders from anywhere. Why can'y I start a POS that counts as 'out of corp' and cannot be attacked when my corp is war decced? Why can't I manage my POS from any region? Why can't I just enter high-sec after going -10.0, why can't I disguise my character when going on a spying mission?
Why create so many in-game obstacles for a single character, and then allow a bypass through use alts? They say EVE is a harsh game, but its made so much softer by 100% trustworthy alts that remove many risks and consequences that one character would suffer.
No alt spy can ever betray your character. No alt industrialist would ever cheat you PVP character.
Having some kind of non-consensual (ie: you can't choose to hide it) public link between the alts on an account would be perfectly reasonable, and I would support it.
Doesn't solve the problem of multi-accounting though.
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FlyinS
Caldari
Planetary Industry and Trade Organization
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Malcanis
Yeah I would seriously love a RL industry alt or two to go grind for me.
Hell I'd settle for one that ran to the grocery store and did my dishes for me.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Malcanis
I have at least 1 friend in EvE who has a very good 0.0 PvP record and has no alts that I know of. He definitely only has one account.
It can be done, and done well.
My question to you would be: is he the rule or an exception among your circle of friends and fellow players?
I am not the object of your question, but I can answer from my experience.
I have been playing for 6 years now and I have never known a dedicated player that did not have two accounts or more, I have never known a dedicated player who did not make frequent use of all the character slots on his account.
In fact the only times I have seen a player not making use of an alt (or second account) is in their first months of playing EVE.
Hi, my name is Malcanis and I only use one slot on each of my two accounts these days. And the second account really only logs in to train skills most of the time...
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Jhagiti Tyran
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:25:00 -
[19]
Having an alt definitely makes life a lot easier, my alt for instance has a lot of skills invested in areas like specialist hauling ships so I can haul my combat related crap like mods and ammo around securely without having take time out of my combat related skills on my main character and the ability to use a covert ops for scouting comes in handy to.
The game mechanics and the way it works does make an alt very handy although I wouldn't go as far say one is essential it would just make things more complicated.
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Haks'he Lirky
Burning Bright Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:34:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Malcanis
I have at least 1 friend in EvE who has a very good 0.0 PvP record and has no alts that I know of. He definitely only has one account.
It can be done, and done well.
My question to you would be: is he the rule or an exception among your circle of friends and fellow players?
I am not the object of your question, but I can answer from my experience.
I have been playing for 6 years now and I have never known a dedicated player that did not have two accounts or more, I have never known a dedicated player who did not make frequent use of all the character slots on his account.
In fact the only times I have seen a player not making use of an alt (or second account) is in their first months of playing EVE.
Hi, my name is Malcanis and I only use one slot on each of my two accounts these days. And the second account really only logs in to train skills most of the time...
I have one active account with one character on it, two inactive accounts with 4 characters with an average of 25msp each.
Day to day I can do stuff with a single account, if I start to do something semi-seriously I will find the need to activate my other accounts.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:42:00 -
[21]
To answer the thread title:
No. 1+ year in and I have no inclination to or need for getting an alt, and EVE remains entirely playable.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Many things in EVE are difficult to do alone. They require time, smarts, specialization, but most important of all, trust and cooperation. Or do they? When asking question of other people how they manage to get around many common obstacles in EVE, the answer I often hear: 'I use an alt'
It's not a 100% clear if you mean just alts or multiple accounts though at least a couple of your example require an alt on a second account.
If you meant just accounts than I managed to play for 6 years with just a single one thanks to this massive multiplayer part. ;-)
If you meant alts in general including the 2 other slots on the first account than I'm sure they have been meant to be the same as the same feature in most other MMOGs - play a paladin one day and a wizard on the nest if you feel like it.
Same for EVE - play a miner in high sec one day and a bad ass yarring pirate the next in low sec.
Thanks to the skill system it's not needed as much as in most fantasy games where you are boxed in by choosing a character class.
And using the alts on the same account comes at a price in that you have to re-train a set of fundamental skills.
I guess because of "throwaway" alts CCP rather regretted to have introduced the feature (chars created just to spy - delete - start a new one to flame on forum - delete - create a new one to rob a corp - delete - etc...).
Spme of your examples (except for the scamming or safe trade alt etc...) do not actually require an alt and actually are less efficient (SP wise) if you do it on the same account.
The many people with extra accounts just want full control and have no patience rather than play with others.
There's also a number of players who try to ignore the MM part and want to play EVE as if it were solo game - they need the extra accounts to compensate for the fact that many features are designed to encourage cooperation.
---
Save the forum: Think before you post.
ISK BUYER = LOSER
EVE TV- Bring it back!
Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE |
Xercies Ravere
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:48:00 -
[23]
One thing I hate is account alts pause your main skill training making you probably need another account if you want to do anything at the same time. Pure money making for CCP this is.
How did it go so wrong. |
eXeGee
UK1 Zero
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:57:00 -
[24]
Edited by: eXeGee on 07/05/2009 09:06:16
I think eve is way much harder game if you don't have alt (especially for pirates and people living in deep .0 - as long as there's no corpmates who will resupply you), yes alts are very handy. When i started playing eve i thought i won't need an alt, but after few months... having an alt is necessary for me atm. There are no safe and profitable ways to make isks with my main in low sec.
In other MMOs people are also using alt characters, why eve should be different?
Anyways, i wonder why CCP is calling this "buddy program" a buddy program, can't they just make it straight and call it "buy new alt with discount"?
e-drama 
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 09:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Xercies Ravere
One thing I hate is account alts pause your main skill training making you probably need another account if you want to do anything at the same time. Pure money making for CCP this is.
Yeah, how they keep their status as a registered charity is a mystery.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 09:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Xercies Ravere
One thing I hate is account alts pause your main skill training making you probably need another account if you want to do anything at the same time. Pure money making for CCP this is.
Yeah, strange how CCP is doing what all other MMO companies out there also do…
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.05.07 09:40:00 -
[27]
No, I have no alts and I have no problems getting ISK when I need it and doing what I want.
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Ouro Akala
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Posted - 2009.05.07 09:48:00 -
[28]
I'm pretty much a noob to EVE, though through the course of playing this game I haven't really felt the need for an alt at all. I use the additional character slots mostly to fiddle with the avatar editor (which is great). That being said, I get the impression sometimes that many people tend to view many aspects of the game, or to be more precise, the way that players approach these many aspects and how they tackle them in a certain way, which, over time, becomes a widespread practice, as a more or less intended game feature. In my opinion at least, EVE was designed at it's core as a pretty much simple game, that had the potential for complex, not necessarily intended, solutions to obstacles that the players came up with.
EVE is an MMO. MMO's work around the concept of teamwork - parties, raids, gangs, fleets, warbands - you name it. I know EVE players hate this game being compared to other, more "standard" MMO's, but the similarities are there. Capital ships were, from the way I see it, designed for teams of players. So it is logical that when you're a solo pilot and you want a cap, there's a big stop sign in front of you. These are elements in the game that encourage you to become part of a group, which MMO's are about. And while in EVE we can always say "hey, we got this l337 FTL communication and stuffs", you still need to fly to your POS, check your Jita orders etc in person, because there needs to be a reason for players to migrate, for them to use their engines. Ships are meant to be flown after all. If you could do most of these things while not leaving your system then it actually does become excell online.
As for differing character specialisations, remember, your character can have every possible skill in the game at the same time, if you wish it (and can wait long enough). In my opinion, alts make things a bit too easy. I also don't think that when CCP implemented the additional characters lots they did it saying "this one's for checking the market!".
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TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.05.07 09:56:00 -
[29]
I've played for 2 years and only ever created a couple alts.
1. Corp holding alt
2. Hauler alt
but both have been on the same account, as I don't want to pay more.
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General Newbold
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:05:00 -
[30]
totally unrelated to this thread, ive been thinking about this for most of the morning
i had a 2nd account, which i never used, but this morning i have decided that i need one again,
why i hear you ask?
ive just started mining, and its way way easier with a hauler.......you cant hit the mega money without one!
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:11:00 -
[31]
Due to poor game mechanics (local, red stars and buddie lists primarily) an alt or another person not in war or buddies list is essential to probe out and kill an alert pilot.
Ganking Buddhist Nun |
Muaina Naura
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: eXeGee
Edited by: eXeGee on 07/05/2009 09:06:16
I think eve is way much harder game if you don't have alt (especially for pirates and people living in deep .0 - as long as there's no corpmates who will resupply you), yes alts are very handy. When i started playing eve i thought i won't need an alt, but after few months... having an alt is necessary for me atm. There are no safe and profitable ways to make isks with my main in low sec.
In other MMOs people are also using alt characters, why eve should be different?
Anyways, i wonder why CCP is calling this "buddy program" a buddy program, can't they just make it straight and call it "buy new alt with discount"?
e-drama
well they had this "power of two" discount clearly for second account purpose some time ago
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Neamus
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:22:00 -
[33]
I've been playing for so long that even my alts have their own alts now.
I cant remember which one is my main, its spiralling out of control 
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:27:00 -
[34]
Two people have mentioned that it is impossible to make the big money without an alt. Does that then mean that this is a (slightly less shameful) equivalent of buying ISK? 
I can't say I'm surprised that CCP don't do anything to make it easier for the 1 account people, as they make a fair bit of money from second accounts. However, I feel a little sorry for those people who pay nearly double what I do just to get a slight leg up in the game. Even more pitiable are the people who do this so they can have a neutral repper repair them when they attack you. Not only do they exploit game mechanics, they pay double money to give themselves an unfair advantage in PvP.
I'm sorry, but I've gone years without a second account, and I'll be damned if I'm paying for a second one. It's meant that my progress is slower, but how much money have I saved over the years by not having one?
There's nothing that can't be done by those with a single account. The only difference is that we require, and rely on, our corpmates.
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Grez
Minmatar
Core Contingency
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:29:00 -
[35]
04 character here - solo since the start.
Still kicking names and taking ass.
---
Grez: I shot the sheriff
Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:29:00 -
[36]
There's nothing an alt can do that another player can't.
Well, except be trustworthy... and even that's questionable in some cases 
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Slave 2739FKZ
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:35:00 -
[37]
Confirming the game would be 10000% more fun & challenge if there were no alts, extra-accounts, GTC/ISK sellers, and all the ****try. But for that people would have to quit their stupid mentality and realize this is a game and the most important objective is to have fun. Otherwise we have the current situation where we are almost "forced" to use alts/extra accoutns to compete.
Also there are some stupid skill caps that favour this behaviour like limited manufaturing/research slots, etc.
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Cipher7
Slag Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.07 12:08:00 -
[38]
The true power of alts isn't hauling for you or some such.
It's that you don't have to dillute another character to do another task.
The time it takes to train accounting or broker relations, you could be training BS5 or Cruise spec 5 or whatever.
Basically Eve works best when you specialize and train deep, to make your equipment sing.
You can't really do that without playing 4-5 years unless you have alts.
CCP knows it promotes alts and could easily fix it, but their income would be alot less so they don't.
Why you think it takes 2 months to max out learnings, you think they put that in the game to make you have fun?
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Steppa
Gallente
Incognito Inc
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Posted - 2009.05.07 12:12:00 -
[39]
I never liked the cyno field mechanic that requires two different toons to complete a jump. That being said, the more solo-oriented cap ship owner can almost certainly not operation without an alt account with cyno alts.
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Jalif
Black Sinisters
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Posted - 2009.05.07 12:14:00 -
[40]
Doing everything on 1 character.. I don't need more then 1 to be succesfull.
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Slave 2739FKZ
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Posted - 2009.05.07 12:40:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Cipher7
Why you think it takes 2 months to max out learnings, you think they put that in the game to make you have fun?
Actually I think that's coutnerproductive to new subscribers retention. Is really re*arded
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.05.07 12:43:00 -
[42]
You start with good intentions of being the best Secret Out Of Corp Gang Leader you can be, but then you get bored. You branch out into salvaging / loot grabbing, astrometrics and before you know it, you need an alt.
You just wanted to be the best cyno main in the whole of New Eden, but it just didn't work out that way....
If you could find people to fill each and every niche role, you probably wouldn't need alts.
I even know a Market Main... but even that inccubus won't buy my stuff of me for reasonable prices to sell on, the margin isn't high enough for a Market Main to do it, so I have to use a low overhead market alt. What's that all about?
Boring work still needs doing.
I don't get how you have so many Mining Mains when mining is by far and away the most boring thing in the whole game, even more boring than being a cyno alt, and that's pretty boring. But you can't find anybody who will just sit in Uedama scanning freighters all day for you with his Freighter Scanning Main.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 12:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Cipher7
Why you think it takes 2 months to max out learnings, you think they put that in the game to make you have fun?
Why do you think they've said that they wished they could undo the addition of those skills?
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
LordSwift
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 12:53:00 -
[44]
I played for over a year before i took the plunge and sent myself a buddy account. started training her up and then i couldnt look after two accounts so went back to this one. I stop using my alt because i cross trained with this character and thought i wouldnt need it. But since i have cross trained to mess around with invention and other stuff i have activated my alt and use her for hauling and filling up my copying slots on my POS.
This game has so many areas that people want to try NOW or asap. Using one character to do this is not possible. Plus people like myself do not want to rely on other people and like playing sorta solo. But i would never get more than my main and 1 alt like i have now
Join the brown Coats today!!! |
Ser Enity
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 12:55:00 -
[45]
I had an alt but I declared war on him as he tried to scam me 
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Connner
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 13:07:00 -
[46]
Its easier with alts, but not required. I dont' have an alt, but have plenty of friends with varied skills to call on when I need their help. If you are in a large enough corp/alliance there should always be someone around with the skill you need to do whatever it is to get done.
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Opertone
Caldari
Internal Anarchy
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 13:09:00 -
[47]
relying on alts to do the same task - sucks! PvPing with two characters at the same time is a shame
playing a completely different character with a different identity is what other main accounts are for
i've only got 3 main accounts, of which one is caldari scientist and adventurer, the other is gallente industrial and excavation and the last is amarr concept and philosophy driven pure combat pilot.
sadly my CC went beyond expiry date and I need to halt my other two accounts for now
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Hysenthlay
Minmatar
Old Timers Guild
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 13:36:00 -
[48]
I do everything with just Hysen...
No alts, no second accounts.
It's how I roll
____________________________
Silflay Hraka U Embleer Rah. |
Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 13:56:00 -
[49]
hey hey
i played completely solo for about 3+ yrs but yes i agree it just got difficult in the end. I decided that i didnt want to have anymore time devoted to industry so i made a miner/hauler/builder alt who pretty much sat in a station building my invention items. eventually she became unused and got sold.
having a character for industry become a necessity for me because i couldnt face the volume of skills needed for invention and TII building.
im back solo now and still loving it :)
but i also have a much more supportive corp who are like an extended family.
Corp > Alt
Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
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Ana Vyr
DB - LJ Industries
Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:05:00 -
[50]
I have no intention of using a second account. If I ever do make an alt on my single account, it'll be for price checking. I am having fun with one character at present...coming up on 11M sp. I can see where an alt would be handy at times for things like mining and scouting, but I think the whole "you need a second account to be efficient" is a bit of a flaw with the game itself, and I refuse to fall for it.
|
|
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Chribbas Dad
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:10:00 -
[51]
I only have one account on eve
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Fox Ogmo
Net 7
The Last Brigade
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:11:00 -
[52]
Thing about alts is; if you are paying for 2 accounts why shouldn't you be able to get twice as much out of the game? After all, you have twice as many accounts to pay for.
I have never bothered with alts, I find that with good friends/corpmates I can handle most of the problems usually solved with alts, all the ones that affected me at least. It might not be as easy or practical as having an alt, but I'd rather live at a slightly lower pace with one account than bother with paying and managing two. That's just my choice though, anyone that pays for a second character deserves every possibility it provides.
Eve has a huge metagame built up, and imo it's an important part of the fun and, although it may benefit from alts, isn't dependent on them.
Originally by: Merdaneth
Are 'alts' the intended way to get around most of these obstacles the developers put into the game? Did CCP intend people to rely on (100% trustworthy) alts to handle many of the more delicate or risky aspects of the game?
Originally by: Merdaneth
Is CCP already consciously accounting for alts when designing new game mechanics? How long before having alts become a necessity for players instead of a 'fun RP option'?
With regards to the design of eve, the focus is usually on player-player interaction, promoting both teamwork and conflict. There shouldn't be much of a difference between teamwork with your own alt and teamwork with another player, so this isn't really an issue. We are not on any kind of path leading to alts becoming a necessity any more than we are on a path to interacting with other players becoming a necessity.
|
Fox Ogmo
Net 7
The Last Brigade
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:21:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Slave 2739FKZ
Originally by: Cipher7
Why you think it takes 2 months to max out learnings, you think they put that in the game to make you have fun?
Actually I think that's coutnerproductive to new subscribers retention. Is really re*arded
I agree, there is just no point putting in padding skills that need to be trained for the first month of eve. I introduced one friend to eve recently, and felt bad having to explain to him that the "wise" thing to do is train them all first, thus delaying his progress to be able to play with any shiny new toys in the first few weeks that count most for player retention.
/whine
I was pretty lucky when I joined eve actually, I'd heard about these skills and so subscribed a month before I truly started playing. (Didn't have a computer at the time, used a friend's computer to make my skill changes). I got all those crappy skills out of the way so that when I started playing eve I could train skills I could enjoy using. (Didn't stop me from creating my char with mining IV though, I'll never understand what I was thinking )
|
Jobby
Minmatar
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:21:00 -
[54]
No.
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arbiter reborn
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:26:00 -
[55]
mmmm spies.. you forgot freighter alts, oh and my personal favorite the no real reson at all alt
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:32:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Fox Ogmo
agree, there is just no point putting in padding skills that need to be trained for the first month of eve. I introduced one friend to eve recently, and felt bad having to explain to him that the "wise" thing to do is train them all first, thus delaying his progress to be able to play with any shiny new toys in the first few weeks that count most for player retention.
/whine
Learning skills aren't the problem; twits like you are. Good job on giving your friend the worst possible advice 
|
Adeline Grey
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:37:00 -
[57]
No, you do not need an alt at all. I have played for years with one account and just recently started a second, and have not even used it at all as it is sitting in empire training up for jump freighters.
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Chinwe Rhei
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:40:00 -
[58]
Well i see alts, second accounts, plexes, character transfers, all that jazz as relicics of the time when EvE was a much smaller game and CCP needed every buck they could get to stay afloat.
It's a game that had a slow start and a slow rise.
Yeah i'd love if we had none of that, all this metagaming breaks a lot of the interesting relationships that might form between players if people were forced to live with the consequences of their actions.
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Ambrosse Brutus
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:40:00 -
[59]
As I am used to the more generic mmorpgs I came into eve thinking that alts would not be much use and they where just somthing for fanatics and people with more money than sense, although after a month of playing eve I have changed my mind. I still would never get an alt on any of the other mmorpgs out there although in eve there are certain aspects of the game that allow alts to be viable, and not just viable but also somthing that improves the game experience.
The most important aspect is that alt accounts can be funded using in game currency, this seperates eve from other mmorpgs in that having an alt is not just an unecessary extravagance only affordable by the rich. It also means that players who are succesful at making isk in the game have an additional choice, they can either buy some in game assests or if they want to expand their money making ventures they can invest in a new alt and create a synergy to make additional isk. If they have a succesful isk making character they can also purchase an alt account in a unrelated aspect of the game which allows them to experience another aspect of the game without spending months or years to competently retrain their current character who has already specialised and is succesful at what they currently do. The well off can of course just buy an alt without all the hardwork although then they are missing out on the challenge of actually creating a viable alt which is an enjoyable aspect of the game in itself.
Another factor which sets eve apart is that most the activities involved in the game do not require constant user input, so while in other mmorpgs it would be foolish to attempt to play two accounts at once due to the big decline in each of the characters effectiveness that would occur by diving your attention between both of them at once. Whilst in eve there is minimal decline in effectiveness of each character making it viable to play two or more alts at one time.
There is also a roleplaying aspect to alts. I grew up playing RPGs where I controlled a party of characters, there was still a main character but if you got bored with main character you still had all the other party members which kept the game interesting. Eve is the same in that you can have a party of characters.
These things have changed my mind on alts as in eve as they add more possibilities and therefore make the game a lot more interesting than what it would be if only a single character was allowed. There are a few drawbacks, the main ones being that certain game mechanics can be exploited through the use of alts and also the use of alts could discourage teamwork, although for most tasks in the game you would need an army of alts so only simple tasks are affected such a creating cynofields. In conlusion I think there are more benefits to allowing alts than there are drawbacks and for those reasons I think alts add an interesting and unique element to the game.
|
FlyinS
Caldari
Planetary Industry and Trade Organization
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:50:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Are 'alts' the intended way to get around most of these obstacles the developers put into the game?
I think it's a huge mistake to call any of these things "obstacles".
They are only obstacles if the player feels (s)he should be everything and have every skill.
|
|
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Amitious Turkey
Gallente
Ammo Tech Inc
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 14:52:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Slave 2739FKZ
Confirming the game would be 10000% more fun & challenge if there were no alts, extra-accounts, GTC/ISK sellers, and all the ****try. But for that people would have to quit their stupid mentality and realize this is a game and the most important objective is to have fun. Otherwise we have the current situation where we are almost "forced" to use alts/extra accoutns to compete.
Also there are some stupid skill caps that favour this behaviour like limited manufaturing/research slots, etc.
5-6 years of playing for me. I have never felt the need to get a new account, and both my alts are still at 50k sp or so.
But you do have a point. People are too concerned with winning, when Eve is unwinnable. Fun ftw.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:12:00 -
[62]
i'm down to one account.
the other ones were properly skilled but in the end, one could say all those other ones were ragequitalts -.-
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
endaler
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:14:00 -
[63]
The same thing counts for real life. I mean, what if I am holding 2 buckets of water, how am I going to hold the 3rd bucket?
answer is simple, you just get rid of the 2 buckets and get the 3rd. OR you get an extra pair of hands and grab the 3rd.
----------------------------------------------------
Yes, this is an alt |
Camaria
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:24:00 -
[64]
Yes, using alts is easier
Having friends doing these things instead are much more fun
|
Psiri
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:26:00 -
[65]
Personally I feel that it's a pretty big flaw in the game and that it would make for a better game if CCP attempted to make the game less alt-dependant. At least alt on multiple accounts. From a financial standpoint though I don't see why CCP would have any interest in changing this however.
I don't like the practice of cyno alts and whatnot.
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:30:00 -
[66]
I also only use 1 account with only 1 char. It is certainly possible, but i do agree that alts are one of the largest flaws of eve (not that they can do much about it).
|
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:38:00 -
[67]
It's a MMO, you're not supposed to do it all on your own.
Alas most people don't have friends so they substitute them with alts.
--------
Ideas for: Mining
|
Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:40:00 -
[68]
If CCP did away with alts, would they allow transfer of the wasted skill points to the main character? |
Hermosa Diosas
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:47:00 -
[69]
Ban all alts IMO - lose 20000 players, less lag! lol I mean in one account you have 3 chars..usually 1 main 2 alts thats 66% are alts!! stop alts now...its clogging up the game.
Seriously its like sayin hey lets make 3 of me so i can see everything thats happening. You want more chars then purchase another account. 1 char per account...
Eve is also about team work, but its also about risk, camp a gate then its your risk, dont have an alt on the other side checking whos coming in!
Eve is soooo unbalanced, CCP want to make it life like in some areas then totally opposite in another..make your minds up.
|
Hermosa Diosas
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:48:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Drunk Driver
If CCP did away with alts, would they allow transfer of the wasted skill points to the main character?
does anyone actually train their alts? I doubt many do...
|
|
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Turiel Demon
Minmatar
Shadow Reapers
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:53:00 -
[71]
Having played eve for 4 years, I just got an alt for trading 2 months ago.
Never needed one, just wanted to try out trading without having to leave my main near a trade hub.
Also, it has come to my attention that I'm really in need of a proper signature. |
P00P
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:54:00 -
[72]
Is Eve unplayable without alts?
No.
|
Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 15:56:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas
Originally by: Drunk Driver
If CCP did away with alts, would they allow transfer of the wasted skill points to the main character?
does anyone actually train their alts? I doubt many do...
I have three accounts and nine characters. All but two have some training.
Alts in different locations need different skill sets.
|
Hermosa Diosas
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 16:01:00 -
[74]
As i said NOT MANY do..and im sure you havent skilled them up by too much. ..Again get rid of alts its bloating eve big time...you want another char buy one...:)
I mean its crazy when you go in alliance with 1500 players and you see like 100 in alliance chat lol ever..be interesting to see by how many numbers drop!
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Xtreem
Gallente
Knockaround Guys Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 16:24:00 -
[75]
well i dont have a huge amount of alts, but life sure is easier in eve with them
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 16:24:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Myra2007 on 07/05/2009 16:26:48
This is a mmo. That means there will be incentives to group up for almost everything. Naturally if you don't have friends nearby you can substitute for them with alts(i.e. alt-scout, second bs for deadspace complexes, another 10 invention slots...). Nothing about this will ever change.
Then again eve is a huge game. There are so many aspects and the training to be somewhat maxed out in one area is substantial. I've been playing 3 years and have done lots of pvp, missions, exploration content, manufacturing, trade and so on. Could i have it done with one character? Yes, but he would've sucked at everything. :(
I like maxed characters that do a thing well but i don't want to limit my options all that much. For me the game would be too restraining in its current iteration if there were no alts.
Granted alts screw with many aspects of the game and eve without alts could be intriguing - not with the current game mechanics imo though (i.e. skills to train in excess of 12-15years, travel limits for outlaws, jump clone restrictions, rather slow travelling, regional limits for invention/build jobs etc.).
Often i'm having my pvp somewhere in lowsec, have to deliver/start 20-80 jobs per day in another region and also check prices in different areas. Its not feasible with a single character imo unless you concentrate on one thing. For me eve is a lot about pew pew but also the freedom to do what i want when i want.
edit: not to mention i like to fly all races which again is much faster with alts.
--
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
|
Faife
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Aggression.
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 16:27:00 -
[77]
depends what you're doing. now that i do caps, having cyno alts is a lifesaver. before that, eh, i managed.
--
|
Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 16:35:00 -
[78]
ALTS > NO ALTS
|
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 16:59:00 -
[79]
I have 3 accounts and 8 alts. In the future I will have 100 accounts and 332 alts and make a 0.0 alliance and buy a titan.
That is why alts are useful.
Ganking Buddhist Nun |
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 17:04:00 -
[80]
But seriously. I play this game solo. In the beginning you could do that - it even said on the box I bought something like:
"get a group of friends and conquer the galaxy ... or go it alone"
But then they changed the game to Alliances Online and solo got the shaft.
I still play solo, I have 3 accounts, 1 main, 1 covert ops / prober / gang booster alt, 1 corp infiltration alt, and the rest are training up covert ops probers cause they are ESSENTIAL to high sec pvp if you want to get the money (faction mission runners).
It is very easy to play EvE in groups and corps alliances and you can do away with alts, but solo pvp, alts are very very essential.
Ganking Buddhist Nun |
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Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 18:59:00 -
[81]
what? no mention in the OP of the most common use for alts... hauling ore while mining...
~~~~~
Remember, EVE is a sandbox and other MMOs are rock gardens.
Pretty rocks can be collected, but collecting sand is pointless.
Instead build a sandcastle and keep it from being knocked down. |
Nambu
Caldari
Two Dogs Operations
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 19:09:00 -
[82]
Originally by: FlyinS
Originally by: Malcanis
Yeah I would seriously love a RL industry alt or two to go grind for me.
Hell I'd settle for one that ran to the grocery store and did my dishes for me.
Thats called a maid, and they aren't that expensive (if you have a decent earning job)
---
The stage is set
Someone's going to do something someone else will regret...
The fuse will have to run out sometime
Something here will eventually have to explode
|
BillyBob Esq
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 19:20:00 -
[83]
Unplayable, no. But having alts does make it a lot more fun. I played for about a year before getting another account and starting to work on alt training both on my main and secondary account. It let me experience a whole lot of eve that I had known existed but had never actually seen before. Plus it makes life easier.
Now especially with the double training time starting a new alt is so much easier.
I would support something on the show info screen that showed who's alts were whos, just to cut down on the number of people that use alts just for spying, but I wouldnt call the system broaken as is.
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Calpurrnia
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 19:39:00 -
[84]
Alts are a great, uh, alternative to not having jumpclones. Be several places at once... like infiltrating Corps for example...because the loot you can get going through peeps hangars, a few mods here and a spaceship there, just a casual taste for pilferage if you follow my meaning, is just sooooooo much easier to get than <gasp!> actually getting in some smelly old spaceship, and this one Alt I have hasn't left the 0.0 station in months, the pickings are just that good...but I digress. 
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FlyinS
Caldari
Planetary Industry and Trade Organization
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 21:20:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Nambu
Thats called a maid, and they aren't that expensive (if you have a decent earning job)
Don't have to pay an alt at all though.
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Liz Laser
Outland Research and Development
Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 21:43:00 -
[86]
CCP adds game mechanics to make their MMORPG more social.
Players are willing to pay 2 or three times more to NOT be social.
Such is life.
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Quantar Raalsken
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 22:47:00 -
[87]
in the near future i plan on making a recruitment alt
but for the bulk of my activities i use my main
(yes i have this forum alt but it just cause i like the "personality" i put into him when creating him, id rather him be my public face than my main, that is unless its in-corp)
=======
Homeworld Hamachi Network
|
Kale Kold
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 22:54:00 -
[88]
When told to use an alt, that doesn't necassarily mean use another account. This is after all a massively MULTIPLAYER game!!!!
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Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 23:10:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Liz Laser
CCP adds game mechanics to make their MMORPG more social.
Players are willing to pay 2 or three times more to NOT be social.
Such is life.
no, CCP put in dull and tedious mechanics that required multiple players to do mundane and simple things safely. using alts is much more convenient because nobody wants to be someone else's hauler slave or cyno monkey, or cannon fodder scout etc... or stay in one region 100% of the time so you can check the market whenever you feel like it, etc.
it's kind of like lower-class jobs... nobody wants to do them, but they must be done in order to live comfortably and stay competitive. so we make our own alt-slaves in order to do everything ourselves.
~~~~~
Remember, EVE is a sandbox and other MMOs are rock gardens.
Pretty rocks can be collected, but collecting sand is pointless.
Instead build a sandcastle and keep it from being knocked down. |
Fairren
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 23:16:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Xercies Ravere
One thing I hate is account alts pause your main skill training making you probably need another account if you want to do anything at the same time. Pure money making for CCP this is.
Yeah, strange how CCP is doing what all other MMO companies out there also doà
They aren't doing what SOE is doing, thank God.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.05.07 23:48:00 -
[91]
Get with a good corp that truely employs teamwork and Alts are not needed.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Erik Amirault
Gallente
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.05.08 02:39:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Merdaneth
...
How do you manage your buy and sell orders you are off doing PvP in another region?
Jump clones and skills I have trained.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you fund your 0.0 PvP adventures?
Rat in 0.0. Already there after all...
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you manage to expand your budding trade and manufacturing Empire?
I don't have one. But many people would want to get others in on it, so as to avoid having to do it all by themselves for hours a day...
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you move your capitals around?
Actually, I agree with you there.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you know where the enemy fleet would be?
Intel channels, covert ops cloaking device. Good old fashioned intel.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you avoid those gatecamps?
Either a lot of friends, or more likely, I use the map to alert me to possible choke points (lots of pilots in space recently, lots of kills in the past 24 hours, etc...)
Originally by: Merdaneth
Why do you rarely lose PvP fights?
Good team. It's certainly not by my skill alone that we win.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you avoid damaging your reputation when doing scams?
I'm just so awesome, that I never need to scam. I walk into Jita, and people give me billions to NOT talk in local.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you infiltrate enemy organizations without ruining your characters rep?
Eh? Now you're just being silly- people would love me even more if I were to spy on the lame going-ons of your corp.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you survive the boredom of defending an FW plex for 20 minutes with nothing to do?
Well, I don't do FW, so... problem solved. Other than that, you would just do it, and be on the (hopeful) lookout for enemies coming in to die at your hands.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you manage your isk?
I make sure not to smoke crack.
Originally by: Merdaneth
Aren't you afraid of being tied down to that Mothership or Titan all the time?
I let the over enthusiastic noobs shoot for close ended ships.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you avoid angering people while posting controversial stuff on the forums?
Oh, I don't care. I post with my main.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you avoid financial and corporate risks from untrustworthy players?
Nobody does. You either trust people, or play Paranoia Online at some point. See my point about ISK management for further details.
{Hit the character limit, ouch.}
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Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2009.05.08 02:41:00 -
[93]
I use alts to do the things that I wouldn't ask other people to do for me due to the boring nature of the task at hand. You know, boring things like hauling from a mining job, hanging around with an Orca for hours on end watching my main mine ore, of fly a freighter 22 jumps.
For everything else in the game, I'm trying to build a network of friends.
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Erik Amirault
Gallente
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.05.08 02:45:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you manage to move around stuff in high-sec during a war dec?
Wait till the offending corp gets bored hunting down non-targets. Or, fit nanos in lows if you really, really have to.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you always know the prices in Jita so fast?
I've been there too much.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you avoid going back and forth between the warzone and your labs all the time to start jobs?
I let others do the industry crap.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How did you supply yourself with ships, as you are -10.0 and there is no market in low-sec?
Actually, I'm mainly in 0.0 with a good group. SO the market is good. Oh, and I have a security status of 4.72 or something.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you manage to hunt down all those ships?
People line up to be killed by me. I dunno why, maybe they like me.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do you control your POS while away?
Holy crap, I must be nuts to trust someone. See ISK managment for further clarification.
Originally by: Merdaneth
How do manage your supply lines during war?
Already answered this one. Padder.
Originally by: Merdaneth
Do you never get tired from the 0.0 POS Warfare?
Of course. Keep your eye on the ball. EVE is not for the ADHD enabled.
Originally by: Merdaneth
Question
Are 'alts' the intended way to get around most of these obstacles the developers put into the game? Did CCP intend people to rely on (100% trustworthy) alts to handle many of the more delicate or risky aspects of the game?
Personally, I am trying hard to play altless, I don't like the meta-gamey aspects of alts. I love EVE for game design built upon risk and personal accountability, but for many people this doesn't seem to be the case. Alts overcome many of the issues requiring trust, cooporation or sacrifice/risk.
Are alts to ingrained in EVE now that if they were removed, the game will become unplayable for the majority of players? Is CCP already consciously accounting for alts when designing new game mechanics? How long before having alts become a necessity for players instead of a 'fun RP option'?
Yeah, alts can be a problem. You have the option to join the 'probelm' or to not. Up to you.
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Flavan
Gallente
The Brotherhood of Mars
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Posted - 2009.05.08 03:52:00 -
[95]
I've never used an alt.
But then, I use EVE differently to most, it seems. I am not in it for the money, or the glory, I am just here to pick up chicks :)
Flavan
Ardene System
Blog
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Dear Abby
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Posted - 2009.05.08 04:16:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Flavan
I've never used an alt.
But then, I use EVE differently to most, it seems. I am not in it for the money, or the glory, I am just here to pick up chicks :)
So is that the origin of 'Honest it's a thorax - you can touch it if you want to." ?
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Leon Caedo
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Posted - 2009.05.08 04:45:00 -
[97]
There is too much confusion going on in this thread.
The term 'alt' is being used WAY too broadly. Half the people mean a 2nd character on the same account, and the other half mean a 2nd account.
These are VASTLY different.
2nd characters on the same account - not the issue.
2nd, 3rd, 4th accounts - the real issue.
I personally don't think CPP should do anything about it though. Some people just enjoy the game more with alts. And in the end, the more money CPP gets, the more devs they can support and pump out great content.
Although, I do find it a bit discouraging to think that 1/2 of the current population in eve is not a main and just some guy's alt.
石の上にも三年。 |
tikiana
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Posted - 2009.05.08 04:58:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Merdaneth
(100% trustworthy) alts
What if though I'm a paranoid schizophrenic, are my alts that trustworthy, this is eve after all maybe my alts are out to get me same as everybody else. In fact my alts are problem organising something right now to get me. I gotta run and check on them
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.08 05:01:00 -
[99]
People have alts because of how easy it is to do everything on your own. The major impedance for most activities is skillpoint related And although you can do pretty much anything with a great char, you can just get around that as a newb by making money and buying one.
The amount of low end characters will always be increasing, and the amount of high end characters being sold is decreasing.
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.08 05:05:00 -
[100]
Originally by: FlyinS
Originally by: Malcanis
Yeah I would seriously love a RL industry alt or two to go grind for me.
Hell I'd settle for one that ran to the grocery store and did my dishes for me.
Thats not an alt, its a wife.
______________________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
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maya ibuki2
THORN Syndicate
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.05.08 06:46:00 -
[101]
OP
i personally do absolutely fine without alts myself. some things, such as bp research and manufacturing, can be a bit difficult for me given this, but to my mind its not more than a minor convenience. my char. is a bit of a jack of all trades, having skills in every field of play-style, which kinda amuses me from an role-play standpoint (universal genius lol).
the only time it really annoys me is when im waiting on the jump clone timer. nevertheless, im pretty damn wealthy if i do say so myself; though about 70% of that wealth is tied up in the pvp ships 
maya ibuki2-currently thorn alliance pvper, proud member of the 54th knights templar and genral shooty type |
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.08 07:00:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Get with a good corp that truely employs teamwork and Alts are not needed.
Not everyone who plays MMORPG's wants to play with other people, some people want to play against others only.
MMORPG != Everyone playing together in harmony.
The problem with EvE is that CCP doesnt let the player choose, they try to force their one preferred playstyle, and in doing so ensure that the large number of people that do like to play against the playerbase rather then with it have to use alts; not to win, but to have even a slight chance of being competitive.
If CCP ever wise up in a commercial sense, they may find subscription numbers from those that like solo play outweigh numbers lost from current solo players who are using second accounts for alts.
Im using the term alt to include second, third... accounts if the account is purchased and used to provide support to a main account (spies, scouts, RR etc).
Infinity Ziona
Ganking Buddhist Nun |
zenia starwalker
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.08 08:31:00 -
[103]
I use a second account. This is actually my second account. CCP makes it pretty much impossible to get ahead in this game with just one account, unlessn you want to spend the maximum amount of time/effort doing things.
examples of Things made easier with a second account:
mining. unless you always have a team, its much easier to mine with one account in a hulk and the other in a Bustard, or your transport ship of choice.
Mish running. Much easier to have one account completing the mish and your second account following up with salvaging.
PVP. Much easier to train one account with more PVP focused skiils and one account for industrial stuff..
Theres much more activities than the ones I listed which is made much much easier with two accounts.
Its obvious CCP did some of these things on purpose. Although they live in Iceland, they're caldari by heart. They want to make as much ISK as possible(in iceland their money really is ISK!!!). They want people to buy more thasn one subscription. I would dare to guess that 40% of the players logged in, are second, third, forth accounts.
I heard of one guy who had 8 accounts! Im sorry, but I wont pay that much money for a video game every month.
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Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.08 08:35:00 -
[104]
With alts I mean multiple characters. It doesn't matter if those are paid for by multiple accounts or are merely extra character slot. I don't believe alts are necessary, I do believe they are becoming the default mechanism to overcome many game obstacles.
CCP built a number of obstacles ('challenges') into their game:
1. Boring Obstacles
Some of these obstacles are boring, mind-numbing and generally devoid of interesting gameplay (traveling to other regions to manage your trades/POS/factory, hauling, mining, moving around capitals by cyno). Generally you won't find many players willing to do these things as their main activity. If such jobs can be handled by alts or by automation/being afk, they will be. Sometimes mechanics make it impossible for other players to do these jobs, but even if they can, other players won't handle these activities for you at a reasonable cost. They are (as Alora put it) lower-class jobs.
2. Risky Obstacles
These obstacles are interesting, but have a potential loss associated with it. In this case people will try to minimize their risk. Alts are an excellent way to do so. Rather than risk their haulers in a corp war, people create alts and haul their stuff in safety. Rather than risk being identified, blown up and podded, pirates use alt-scouts. Rather than risk another botching your operations or running off with your isk, you manage your trade and manufacturing through alts.
I call categories 1 and 2 'supportive alts', they all support the main (or in many cases support each other, and there is no clear main anymore).
3. Restricting Obstacles
These are obstacles are created largely because some choices naturally exclude each other. If you want to be a Miner/Manufacturer, its at the cost of your PvP skills. If you want to infiltrate and spy on enemy alliances, you can't simultaneously be a corp CEO. For such applications is fairly natural to want to create alts. You want a taste of a different part of EVE.
The alts in category 3 are true alts. Alternative alts if you will. They give the player access to alternative gameplay. There might be some mixing with support functions, but largely they are designed to give a player a taste of something else, rather than overcome boredom or minimize risk.
I like the category 3 alt options. I dislike categories 1 and 2. Categories 1 and 2 seems to be the majority of the alts though.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Iliana Smith
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Posted - 2009.05.08 09:20:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Xercies Ravere
One thing I hate is account alts pause your main skill training making you probably need another account if you want to do anything at the same time. Pure money making for CCP this is.
Yeah, strange how CCP is doing what all other MMO companies out there also doà
The problem I have with this is that EVE skilling is UNLIKE any other MMO out there. In any other MMO you either skill by doing the thing or skill by levelling up. This could take you an hour or a day or anything. EVE Online you actually have to wait for it. You can't do anything to up it except waiting which means that its very annoying that you have to pause your main acount just to skill up on the alt because of waiting times.
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Xercies Ravere
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Posted - 2009.05.08 09:22:00 -
[106]
Oops showing my noobness there with the quoting system
How did it go so wrong. |
EVEHelpisSeriousBusiness
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Posted - 2009.05.08 09:41:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Many things in EVE are difficult to do alone. They require time, smarts, specialization, but most important of all, trust and cooperation. Or do they? When asking question of other people how they manage to get around many common obstacles in EVE, the answer I often hear: 'I use an alt'
Examples
How do you manage your buy and sell orders you are off doing PvP in another region?
- I'm not stupid
How do you fund your 0.0 PvP adventures?
- I'm not stupid
How do you manage to expand your budding trade and manufacturing Empire?
- I'm not stupid
How do you move your capitals around?
- I'm not stupid
How do you know where the enemy fleet would be?
- I'm not stupid
How do you avoid those gatecamps?
- I'm not stupid
Why do you rarely lose PvP fights?
- I'm not stupid
How do you avoid damaging your reputation when doing scams?
- I'm not stupid
How do you infiltrate enemy organizations without ruining your characters rep?
- I'm not stupid
How do you survive the boredom of defending an FW plex for 20 minutes with nothing to do?
- I'm not stupid
How do you manage your isk?
- I'm not stupid
Aren't you afraid of being tied down to that Mothership or Titan all the time?
- I'm not stupid
How do you avoid angering people while posting controversial stuff on the forums?
- I'm not stupid
How do you avoid financial and corporate risks from untrustworthy players?
- I'm not stupid
How do you manage to move around stuff in high-sec during a war dec?
- I'm not stupid
How do you always know the prices in Jita so fast?
- I'm not stupid
How do you avoid going back and forth between the warzone and your labs all the time to start jobs?
- I'm not stupid
How did you supply yourself with ships, as you are -10.0 and there is no market in low-sec?
- I'm not stupid
How do you manage to hunt down all those ships?
- I'm not stupid
How do you control your POS while away?
- I'm not stupid
How do manage your supply lines during war?
- I'm not stupid
Do you never get tired from the 0.0 POS Warfare?
- I'm not stupid
Here, I fixed some things for you. Hope this helps.
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Lonzo Kincaid
Black Nova Corp
KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.05.08 09:51:00 -
[108]
How do you manage your buy and sell orders you are off doing PvP in another region?
- I have a nub alt on this account
How do you fund your 0.0 PvP adventures?
- I take time out now and then to npc, or use a nub hauler alt on this account to run towers.
How do you manage to expand your budding trade and manufacturing Empire?
- same nubalt who runs the towers
How do you move your capitals around?
- I request a cyno in corp/alliance
How do you know where the enemy fleet would be?
- I scout if i'm in a scout ship, or i rely on somebody else scouting
How do you avoid those gatecamps?
- Fly a fast scouting ship, or use map infomation and what i can see around me to take an educated guess as to where the camps will be.
Why do you rarely lose PvP fights?
- I fight goons
How do you avoid damaging your reputation when doing scams?
- I don't scam, i'll be a bastard if the situation calls for it though.
How do you infiltrate enemy organizations without ruining your characters rep?
- BINGO! Actual job for an alt, unless you're hardcore.
How do you survive the boredom of defending an FW plex for 20 minutes with nothing to do?
- Make mom jokes on TS.
How do you manage your isk?
- I try to spend less than i make, not always though :D
Aren't you afraid of being tied down to that Mothership or Titan all the time?
- If i did put my main in a mothership, i would want a pvp alt for flying sub caps. If they had more uses it would be tolerable to live in one without an alt though.
How do you avoid angering people while posting controversial stuff on the forums?
- hurrrr
How do you avoid financial and corporate risks from untrustworthy players?
- Build relationships with people, and count the zeros in contracts.
How do you manage to move around stuff in high-sec during a war dec?
- hauler main
How do you always know the prices in Jita so fast?
- nub alt on this account again, or that site that i've forgotten that gets updated quite often.
How do you avoid going back and forth between the warzone and your labs all the time to start jobs?
- Answered that one earlier
How did you supply yourself with ships, as you are -10.0 and there is no market in low-sec?
- I'm not -10, and although an alt is useful for this it would be possible to ask somebody to bring you one for a small fee. Although alts probably hinder this business idea.
How do you manage to hunt down all those ships?
- same as scouting
How do you control your POS while away?
- answered earlier
How do manage your supply lines during war?
- We have an industrial alt sister corp
Do you never get tired from the 0.0 POS Warfare?
- sometimes, i don't see what this has to do with alts though.
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Quote:
The rule of thumb is you have to outnumber them 2:1 before you even think about engaging them
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Kristina Trepkas
Amarr
The Light Of Other Days
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Posted - 2009.05.08 10:44:00 -
[109]
Do you feel lonely because you have no real friends to play with?
- no, I have my alts.
One more for the list.
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Emperor Ryan
Amarr
Imperial Syndicate Forces
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Posted - 2009.05.08 10:46:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Dear Abby
should have used you posting alt.
This
- Emperor
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.05.08 13:47:00 -
[111]
Eve is designed so that to achieve some tasks, you must work together with other players. As it turns out, some of those tasks you can get by with just using an alt, instead of getting someone else to do it. Allowing those tasks to be done by one player, really compromises the whole game (yes they do make tasks better done by more than one player, because mostly they add value to the in game economy). Not allowing them to be done by alts makes the game much harder for the most dedicated players, which is guaranteed to cost revenue.
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