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DHB WildCat D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.05.14 23:49:00 - [1] Hola peoples.... Iw ant to discuss my specialty for a minute.... Faction Battleships. I want to show what they should be and what they lack mostly. Nightmare - Awesome ship, what a faction battleship should be tbh when properly fit. No complaints for me with this ship. Rattlesnake - TBH should lose the 6th low for a 7th mid. Would make it a superior shield tank for the most part..... however.... that would mean it would lose its ability to passive tank. So again kinda your flavor type deal.... but passive tank = no tackle. Also lets raise the fitting of the a little. I think it should be better than the raven and have 1 more launcher tbh, lose the joke of a hybrid bonus, and add another bonus..... lets say warp scramble range? Or keep the slot layout lose the hybrid damage bonus and add drone bonus? Machariel - lets face it its a TEMPEST! needs more damage or maybe another gun slot. 7 guns is better and would make it a formidable faction ship! As it is right now the dps is a joke. Now we get to the 2 Faction Battleships that need some love!!!!!!! Bhaalgorn - HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO FIT ONE OF THESE!!!??? awesome idea of a ship, however it has some serious fitting issues. Maybe also give it a web velocity bonus as well? Might be too much, but lets face it this ships entire point is to stop another ship dead in its tracks. Nueted and webbed while others move in for the kill. Give it some love CCP. Also the ashimmu could use the same help. Vindicator - I honestly dont know what to do with it... When a kronos / Hyperion active tanks better with similar dps, or a Navy Mega passive tanks much better with more dps..... Kinda a worthless ship atm. Hopefully CCP will help the other faction ships like they did the Nightmare. WildCat
insidion Caldari Last of the Technocracy	Posted - 2009.05.14 23:59:00 - [2] I agree the new nightmare was a huge impovement. Not only would I love to see a simliar makeover done on the machariel and vindicator so I could dust them off and actually use them, but I would love to see more additions. There are numerous ships that deserve faction equivalents or alternates, and just as many need to be revisited. /signed give faction ships some love CCP!
HellsRazor Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.05.15 00:13:00 - [3] I also think ALL Faction Battleships should have 2x the Sensor Strength they have now against ECM to get more of them out there fighting without sitting there like a sad panda getting popped without a nice showing. Make the more formittable for the high dollar amount it is to use them. On that note. Is it not a clear sign when 1 faction BS is like 2 1/2 times the average price of another Faction BS their might... just maybe alil love that needs to go around to the other Faction BS? Sounds crazy I know.....
abrasive soap Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.15 00:21:00 - [4] give the rattlesnake 5% missile damage per level bonus, 5% missile velocity bonus, and 100% missile damage bonus with 4 missile points and 6 highs, 7 mids, 5 lows machariel has a terrible tank with mediocre dps, give it 7 guns and change the slot layout to 8-4-7 or 8-4-8 OR give it 5-4-7/8 with 4 turret slots and 100% damage bonus to projectiles bhaalgorn is tough because its ewar based vindicator could be 8 guns (pretty sure the mega model has 8 turret points on the model), 4/5 mids, 7/8 lows
Liang Nuren No Salvation Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.05.15 00:32:00 - [5] IMO: - Nightmare, leave as is - Rattlesnake, 5% Hybrid damage -> 10% Drone HP/Damage, Drone Bay -> 175m^3, Bandwidth -> 125m^3 - Bhaalgorn, +Fittings, Web Range -> +Web Strength/Range - Mach, +Agility/speed [not bonus], +2 turrets/fittings - Vindicator, Sorry, pulling a blank for what I'd like on this ship. Fixing blasters would go a long way towards making the ship good again, but it wouldn't address the points you brought up. Maybe MWD bonus -> Web strength or optimal range? I'd also like to point out the Fleet Tempest as being pretty bad and the Navy Mega as being a bit meh (to me). One of the things I'd really appreciate is if they went through and redid all the faction ships, not just the BS's. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.05.15 00:40:00 - [6] wouldn't that be nice. machy is a 900mil tempest/phoon, not quite sure which one is is supposed to be. I figured after the nano nerf they would be around 500mil by now, wtf is making them so expensive (do people really take the passive shield tank and mission run **** seriously? I think that is the only use I have heard for them )
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.05.15 00:44:00 - [7] I think the Mach is alright as it is. If anything it is too much like what the pest should be. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Warrio GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.15 01:01:00 - [8] Edited by: Warrio on 15/05/2009 01:02:12 Sadly the Macharial had an advantage in the days of nano. Without that it needs a new niche since being 'a bit faster than a nanophoon' is currently about as useful as being 'a bit better at running than Stephen Hawking'. Quote: give the rattlesnake 5% missile damage per level bonus, 5% missile velocity bonus, and 100% missile damage bonus with 4 missile points and 6 highs, 7 mids, 5 lows Also, this. ^^ sXe
Myrkala Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous	Posted - 2009.05.15 01:11:00 - [9] Actually, I see the Machariel as a capless, faster, Megathron with less drones and less sig. Give it more CPU and a 125 m3 drone bay with 125 mb drone bandwith, it needs something more IMO. "Ruppie ain't no puppie."
burek Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2009.05.15 01:30:00 - [10] Originally by: DHB WildCat Bhaalgorn - HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO FIT ONE OF THESE!!!??? awesome idea of a ship, however it has some serious fitting issues. Maybe also give it a web velocity bonus as well? Might be too much, but lets face it this ships entire point is to stop another ship dead in its tracks. Nueted and webbed while others move in for the kill. Give it some love CCP. Also the ashimmu could use the same help. I've flown it an loved it. Still love the "idea" of it. Now with changed webs, kinda makes me just look at it with fond memories. But fitting it is/was problematic. You pretty much have to go faction just to make stuff fit. From personal point of view, some web strength improvement would make me fly it again. At the moment, I can get the Fleet Tempest to do a similar job (close enough) for less isk and less intimidation factor + extra mid. Or a Dominix even, lol.
Asuka Smith Gallente StarHunt	Posted - 2009.05.15 01:50:00 - [11] I think that all the pirate faction battleships should be re-worked to have bonuses relating to tackling. They are after all PIRATE battleships and should be specialized in tackling and ganking as that is the entire purpose they were developed for. I find it odd that faction ships lately seem to be outright terrible or have the weirdest most useless bonuses ever. I remember when I started Faction stuff seemed epic, but right now a lot of faction ships are as bad as T1.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.15 02:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Asuka Smith I think that all the pirate faction battleships should be re-worked to have bonuses relating to tackling. They are after all PIRATE battleships and should be specialized in tackling and ganking as that is the entire purpose they were developed for. I find it odd that faction ships lately seem to be outright terrible or have the weirdest most useless bonuses ever. I remember when I started Faction stuff seemed epic, but right now a lot of faction ships are as bad as T1. Plz don't touch my Nightmare. I don't want to tackle, I want to pew pew!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.05.15 02:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Kzintee Originally by: Asuka Smith I think that all the pirate faction battleships should be re-worked to have bonuses relating to tackling. They are after all PIRATE battleships and should be specialized in tackling and ganking as that is the entire purpose they were developed for. I find it odd that faction ships lately seem to be outright terrible or have the weirdest most useless bonuses ever. I remember when I started Faction stuff seemed epic, but right now a lot of faction ships are as bad as T1. Plz don't touch my Nightmare. I don't want to tackle, I want to pew pew! Nightmare and Rattlesnake need to be able to use the heavy interdictor pointy thingy so they can shield tank though
Karl Kahn Browncoat Coalition	Posted - 2009.05.15 06:58:00 - [14] Rattlesnake - Remove the two turret hardpoints, leave the missile hardpoints the way they are. Change the Gallente Bonus to the standard 10% per level drone bonus, give it a 100 m3 drone bay and a 100 m3 bandwidth. You could make the choice for 4 Heavies if you want, or 5 meds, 5 lights, and whatever else. I thought about the full 125m3/mbit p sec but that would make it a little overpowered. But then again, what the hell, why not?
Guer	Posted - 2009.05.15 07:43:00 - [15] Rattlesnake with a drone bonus
Arkady Renko	Posted - 2009.05.15 08:13:00 - [16] so....where's the Amarr - Gallente faction BS?...or have I trained wrong?
Birkinz Caldari Vectra Source Partnership	Posted - 2009.05.15 09:08:00 - [17] Would love to see the drone bonus on the Rattler + bigger bay - sounds awesome and fits the skill reqs.
Jaffnar Borg	Posted - 2009.05.15 09:49:00 - [18] Another idea would be to redesign the Vindicator and change it to a drone ship. Blaster users already have Mega, Navy Mega, Hyperion and Kronos. A drone boat with the Megathron model would be great. Stats could be: 7/5/7 slot layout with 6 Turrets and 1 Launcher CPU: 600 PG: 13500 125 MB/s Drone Bandwith and 425 m¦ Drone Bay Special Ability: 50% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount of armor repair systems per level Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level As an alternative it could also be 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level of Gallente Battleship skill or a bonus to Drone optimal range (sentries) or whatever.
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.15 09:53:00 - [19] CCP are probably pretty much :effort: on this issue since they promised new faction ships two years ago.
Morel Nova z3r0 Gravity	Posted - 2009.05.15 09:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Birkinz Would love to see the drone bonus on the Rattler + bigger bay - sounds awesome and fits the skill reqs. stick lazors on your domi =) Put in space whales!
Azeroth Uluntil Caldari Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.05.15 11:06:00 - [21] Originally by: Dibsi Dei CCP are probably pretty much :effort: on this issue since they promised new faction ships two years ago. Aye. Where the heck is my faction dominix, hyperion, armageddon(navy issue, not imperial), abaddon, scorpion(lol?) rokh(even bigger lol), typhoon and maelstrom? Should give the pirate bs's that take two races the same general damage modification that the nightmare gets. 4 guns, 100% damage bonus+whatever else.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.15 11:32:00 - [22] The Machariel is a fine line. Its a Gallente/Minmatar combo, with the only resemblance to anything Gallente being its Tracking bonus (arguable, since minm get these a fair bit too). It has a bog standard battleship drone bay, and everything else it gets from the minm side of the family. Increase the tracking bonus to 10%/level, increase the damage bonus to 7.5%/level. MAYBE add in a bit more drone bay and bandwidth, though this would, debatably, make the ship slightly overpowered. (if thats an applicable term considering the Nightmare's Pwnage and the original cost of the ship) And then we have the Bhaalgorn, unquestionably the most expensive yet least useful Faction Battleship alive. First NOS got nerfed and then Webs got nerfed. Now with the agility nerf, just . I'd say you make the bonuses on the ship passive (Like the machariel). I.e 30% bonus to web range/effectiveness and nuet/nos range/amount. Then give it An armor resist bonus (maybe 7.5% per level of amarr BS) and a 25% damage bonus to projectiles / level of minnie BS?. Cut it down to 4-6 turrets, meaning it has good DPS by itself with the utility highslots. Hey i can dream, right. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 ^Third Times a Charm^
Forge Lag	Posted - 2009.05.15 11:59:00 - [23] Edited by: Forge Lag on 15/05/2009 12:00:38 The faction BSs are expensive as they are, making them more powerfull will only make them even more expensive. People are already willing to pay for the performance they are getting now. Machariel is considerably better Fleet Pest. It has slightly less buffer - as all pirate ships compared to navy ships - but much better bonuses, higher speed and slot layout more akin to original Pest. If any faction BS needs fix at all it is Fleet Pest. Rattlesnake and Vindicator are not really exciting but as said people buy them as they are, which can hardly be said about Fleet Pest. Then again complaining about Pest in any form or shape is a bit old and none in CCP really cares. And then we have the lack of Khanid BS and the lack of faction drone ship (vexor navy is do-or-die blasterboat if anything with the lack of spares and five bonused highs and low amount of mids) while we have two laser platforms and two missile platforms just in BSs. Same old same old.
Nova Satar Annihilate.	Posted - 2009.05.15 12:03:00 - [24] totally agreed, for the 600mil + ones theyd efintiely need to be a bit mroe classy. I LOVE the diea of the Vindi, as it it could be a great "heavy tackler" compared to the navy mega which would be more of a dps paltform, hoever it's a bit meh for the price atm. Also the Mach is flat out crap, it's the same as a tempest, which is also crap. get a phoon tbh lol. Bhaalgorn, good idea, makes a very nice gang ships/addition, however needs MOAR PG
FinalFlash84 Duty.	Posted - 2009.05.15 12:21:00 - [25] /signed Some Faction BS are definitely in need of some love ------------ Final Flash Rokhasm
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.15 12:37:00 - [26] I have a Rattler in my hangar, but I'm not even going to bother fitting it until it's more than just a Raven with an extra lowslot and hideous grid/CPU issues. Give it a 175 m3 drone bay, 125 m3 bandwidth and a 4/4 turret/launcher layout and change the bonuses to missile damage/ROF, hybrid ROF/damage and drone damage, then give it fittings to support neutrons, torps and either a shield or armour tank. Comedy gank hyper-Phoon ahoy!
demonfurbie Minmatar Covert-Nexus	Posted - 2009.05.15 13:49:00 - [27] i like faction bses i like the idea of them as well imo the bhaal needs more fitting and turn it in to a missile/nuet boat (min skill to missile rof or something like that) the mach could use a 7th gun more fitting the vindi needs a good looking at maybe change the mwd bonus to a web srt bouns (-60 webs to a -90 at lvl 5) the rattler is nice but id change the slots to 6/6/6 and give it 175 drone bay and a drone dmg bouns (missile and drone ship) nightmare is fine
TuRtLe HeAd KrayZ Inc Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.15 13:53:00 - [28] on the Mach your paying for the Massive difference in Shield And Armour over the Tempest. That said.. it should still be alot cheaper than it is. They used to be 300-500 mill, Becuase the BPC used to drop from 6/10 plexes (Like the Bhaalghorn) Maybe theres just not enough people Getting the BPC's and its just a case of Supply and Demand.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.05.15 14:06:00 - [29] Rattlesnake - Replace hybrid damage bonus with a second missile velocity, or missile flight time bonus. Then can fire torps very far Maybe give another missile slot. Machariel - Needs 125mbit of drones, or an extra turret slot. Bhaalgorn - Nice web and neut bonus, but it means the damage is bad and the fittings are hard. Would be alot more attractive if the fittings on in were increased alot. Vindicator - Needs something special to seperate it. Maybe a web strength bonus instead of MWD bonus. Or a big scram bonus. Scram only, not disruptor. Maybe a MWD capacitor activation usage reduction similar to the t3 ships.
Gunner Cid The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2009.05.15 14:43:00 - [30] Personally I think that the Rattlesnake, Vindicator and Machariel should all get the "Marauder Treatment". 4 Hardpoints - 100% dmg bonus. 5% dmg or rof per one BS lvl, 7.5% tracking or missile velocity per the other BS level. Tweak the grid CPU so they can be fit out. Bhaalgorn could have the -Cap use on Guns bonus changed to a flat 25% dmg bonus or something like -Cap Use on Neuts Would really make the ships more useful.
demonfurbie Minmatar Covert-Nexus	Posted - 2009.05.15 14:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Gunner Cid Personally I think that the Rattlesnake, Vindicator and Machariel should all get the "Marauder Treatment". 4 Hardpoints - 100% dmg bonus. 5% dmg or rof per one BS lvl, 7.5% tracking or missile velocity per the other BS level. Tweak the grid CPU so they can be fit out. Bhaalgorn could have the -Cap use on Guns bonus changed to a flat 25% dmg bonus or something like -Cap Use on Neuts Would really make the ships more useful. that would be nice but the bhaal has never been about dmg something lie 100% drain on nos/nuets instead or the 100% to a gun
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.05.15 15:08:00 - [32] Minmatar battleships are a cornucopia of problems. The Navy Tempest is on par with the normal BS of other faction. The normal Tempest is a gimp. And the Mach falls in between a normal tempest and a Navy Tempest. The only Minamatar BS that doesnt suck relative to other races is the Phoon - but it requires about 25 mill points to be worth using. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.05.15 15:58:00 - [33] Rattlesnake with drone bonus? What the **** have you been smoking? If anything, Rattlesnake should be a uber railgun platform; Kinda like what Nightmare is for lasers. Want drone bonus? Cry for a faction Dominix, alias. Rogue Drone Infested Dominix.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.05.15 16:22:00 - [34] Humm, as for the Rattler - I would like to see it be a bit more unique instead of being a slightly better Raven, soo as it's based off the Scorpion model, I think the Rattler should get an ECM bonus and as it's half-gallente too, a Drone bay Think: Special Ability: 75% bonus to ECM strength Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo rate of fire per level Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level. 4 Launchers, 4 Turrets 6 Hi-slots, 8 Med-slots, 6 Lo-slots 150m3 Drone Bay :drools: - Contagious -
Renesis Maximus Department of Defence	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:02:00 - [35] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Rattlesnake with drone bonus? What the **** have you been smoking? If anything, Rattlesnake should be a uber railgun platform; Kinda like what Nightmare is for lasers. Want drone bonus? Cry for a faction Dominix, alias. Rogue Drone Infested Dominix. I agree 100%. As it stands, there is no faction hybrid platform other than the navy mega. In fact, give this a damage bonus and an optimal bonus. Optimal for Caldari BS lvl and Damage for Gallente BS level. It's something that has not been don in any of the ships and it would make it the best hybrid platform in the game. Since it's a caldari hull, it should probably get shield bonuses, but if you want armor, that's great too, we could always use another fleet sniper for RR fleets. I'm a Caldari Gunner. Deal with it.
demonfurbie Minmatar Covert-Nexus	Posted - 2009.05.15 18:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Renesis Maximus Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Rattlesnake with drone bonus? What the **** have you been smoking? If anything, Rattlesnake should be a uber railgun platform; Kinda like what Nightmare is for lasers. Want drone bonus? Cry for a faction Dominix, alias. Rogue Drone Infested Dominix. I agree 100%. As it stands, there is no faction hybrid platform other than the navy mega. In fact, give this a damage bonus and an optimal bonus. Optimal for Caldari BS lvl and Damage for Gallente BS level. It's something that has not been don in any of the ships and it would make it the best hybrid platform in the game. Since it's a caldari hull, it should probably get shield bonuses, but if you want armor, that's great too, we could always use another fleet sniper for RR fleets. vindi is a faction hybrid gun ship
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.05.15 18:20:00 - [37] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Rogue Drone Infested Dominix. That would be unbelievably awesome.
RustyShackleford Caldari Invicta. Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.05.15 21:59:00 - [38] wtg DBH... first interesting thread ive stumbled across here in a long time. My only suggestion would be to stick with what worked buffing the nightmare. The maurauder like damage bonus with fewer turret points allows for alot of flexability lacking in the navy ships. And frankly a rattlesnake with ze drone bonus, torps and neuts would prolly make some cross training in order. --as for the mach I'd love to see it get like 1/2 of its nano peen back. make it the one ship that survived the nano nerf and throw some spice back into my life.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.15 22:10:00 - [39] Edited by: The Djego on 15/05/2009 22:12:28 I would like a true mix of Mini/Gallente for the Vidi(heavy Tank, 90% Web are allready taken). So build in the Cap Bonus for the MWD and give 15% Falloff per Mini BS level(would be 28km Falloff for Neutrons with max skills and Null). Also increase speed and agility advantage again to where they where before all the nerfs hit it(1000-1200 m/s with MWD) and agile like a BC. Would finaly give me a reason to undock my Vidi and Vigilant again(I just loved the Vigilant in 06 as it was faster than the deimos, insta killed Frigs and carried the multispec of doom ). Fast and agile med range Blaster ships, powerfull, special, usefull. AK style Blaster Ships. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Shereza	Posted - 2009.05.15 23:29:00 - [40] Honestly, I love the machariel as it is. It might not be the battleship I use the most but it's one of the top two or three I use when I want to have fun. Having said that, I cannot for the life of my think of anything that would benefit the machariel more than a "boost" to projectile weapons in general and autocannons in specific. The ship's bonuses are fine and there's no real reason to turn it into another marauder clone like the nightmare (which, sadly, in many respects is superior to its marauder counter-part, the paladin). If anything on the ship it would be the top speed and fitting capacities. I'd personally prefer to see the top speed boosted 19m/s to 180m/s and the CPU and power grid bumped up by 25-50tf and 2,000mw respectively. Bost its base speed, let it fit gear a little more easily, and boost projectile weapons and the machariel ought to do significantly better than it does now, which is still pretty good all things considered, without changing any of the core aspects of the ship. * - This post and all opinions posted in it are based in a PvE perspective and have no bearing or applicability to PvP. Any attempts to construe any parts of this post as recommendations relating to the workings of the ship, modules, game, or meta-game in relation to PvP will be seen as hostile, inflammatory, and poor excuses for trolling. Furthermore any attempts to misconstrue any portion of this post in any way, shape, or form will result in a 1 isk fine per attempt to be extracted from your wallet at a later date of the author's, "God's," or Demon Murphy's choosing. Reading this post in part or whole automatically binds you to this contract so long as these forums remain operational. And may God, have mercy, on yer soul! Yar!! ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Vyllana	Posted - 2009.05.15 23:57:00 - [41] I think a rattlesnake with 1 missile bonus and 1 drone bonus would be awesome. There are no other drone/missile ships in game, and it would make a very versatile combo. 10% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo explosion velocity per Caldari Battleship skill level 10% bonus to drone damage/hitpoints per Gallente Battleship skill level special: 100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage 6 highs (4 missile hardpoints, 2 turret hardpoints) [-2 highs] 7 meds [+1 med] 6 lows [no change] 125m3 drone bandwidth, 250m3 drone bay It would make an amazing PvE boat as well as a fearsome battleship for PvP.
demonfurbie Minmatar Covert-Nexus	Posted - 2009.05.16 01:37:00 - [42] there seam to be alot of diff way the issue can be addressed but over it seams most people see a need for something to be done
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.05.16 01:38:00 - [43] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 16/05/2009 01:39:07 Originally by: DHB WildCat Hola peoples.... Iw ant to discuss my specialty for a minute.... Faction Battleships. I want to show what they should be and what they lack mostly. Nightmare - Awesome ship, what a faction battleship should be tbh when properly fit. No complaints for me with this ship. Rattlesnake - TBH should lose the 6th low for a 7th mid. Would make it a superior shield tank for the most part..... however.... that would mean it would lose its ability to passive tank. So again kinda your flavor type deal.... but passive tank = no tackle. Also lets raise the fitting of the a little. I think it should be better than the raven and have 1 more launcher tbh, lose the joke of a hybrid bonus, and add another bonus..... lets say warp scramble range? Or keep the slot layout lose the hybrid damage bonus and add drone bonus? Machariel - lets face it its a TEMPEST! needs more damage or maybe another gun slot. 7 guns is better and would make it a formidable faction ship! As it is right now the dps is a joke. Now we get to the 2 Faction Battleships that need some love!!!!!!! Bhaalgorn - HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO FIT ONE OF THESE!!!??? awesome idea of a ship, however it has some serious fitting issues. Maybe also give it a web velocity bonus as well? Might be too much, but lets face it this ships entire point is to stop another ship dead in its tracks. Nueted and webbed while others move in for the kill. Give it some love CCP. Also the ashimmu could use the same help. Vindicator - I honestly dont know what to do with it... When a kronos / Hyperion active tanks better with similar dps, or a Navy Mega passive tanks much better with more dps..... Kinda a worthless ship atm. Hopefully CCP will help the other faction ships like they did the Nightmare. WildCat Posting in a thread written by someone having a wet dream. --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
Nichola Kreed Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.05.16 02:19:00 - [44] Originally by: Liang Nuren IMO: - Nightmare, leave as is - Rattlesnake, 5% Hybrid damage -> 10% Drone HP/Damage, Drone Bay -> 175m^3, Bandwidth -> 125m^3 - Bhaalgorn, +Fittings, Web Range -> +Web Strength/Range - Mach, +Agility/speed [not bonus], +2 turrets/fittings - Vindicator, Sorry, pulling a blank for what I'd like on this ship. Fixing blasters would go a long way towards making the ship good again, but it wouldn't address the points you brought up. Maybe MWD bonus -> Web strength or optimal range? I'd also like to point out the Fleet Tempest as being pretty bad and the Navy Mega as being a bit meh (to me). One of the things I'd really appreciate is if they went through and redid all the faction ships, not just the BS's. -Liang ^^ this or replace rattle's hypird bouns with shield resistance bouns, ang give it one more launchers. make is a bigger drake, and give onw more gun slot for fleet pest
Mr Ignitious R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.05.16 03:04:00 - [45] Edited by: Mr Ignitious on 16/05/2009 03:05:13 Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 15/05/2009 22:12:28 I would like a true mix of Mini/Gallente for the Vidi(heavy Tank, 90% Web are allready taken). So build in the Cap Bonus for the MWD and give 15% Falloff per Mini BS level(would be 28km Falloff for Neutrons with max skills and Null). Also increase speed and agility advantage again to where they where before all the nerfs hit it(1000-1200 m/s with MWD) and agile like a BC. Would finaly give me a reason to undock my Vidi and Vigilant again(I just loved the Vigilant in 06 as it was faster than the deimos, insta killed Frigs and carried the multispec of doom ). Fast and agile med range Blaster ships, powerfull, special, usefull. AK style Blaster Ships. the best part is the end. Beautiful. I would love for blaster ships in general to return in a way that would strike some semblance of fear into their targets once more. edit: And just in general, for the price of Pirate BS, or any pirate ship really, there needs some reworking. Sanshas got it and they turned out pretty well. I think it's time the others get their make over now too especially considering the MASSIVE amount of gameplay changes they've undergone lately. I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people. Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.05.18 09:29:00 - [46] Agreeing with wildcat here, but please ccp, also fix the fleet pest :(
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.05.18 10:09:00 - [47] per lvl -10% cap and cpu requirement for shield emission modules on the tempest(s) -10% cap and pg requirement for remote armor repair systems on the machariel make minnies _the_ RR race. nidhoggur started it, they lack HP in general (something signature cant make up for - besides... amarr are smaller than "extended" minnies) and they're the ones with all kinds of tanks so what if there's a pure 8x-RR-machariel...? well, there's one heck of a target to suck dry. which bring me to... -10% cap and pg requirement for ANY energy emission in general on the bhaalgorn - putting the gist back into logistics
glassmanipulator Lucian Alliance Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.19 06:42:00 - [48] Originally by: HellsRazor I also think ALL Faction Battleships should have 2x the Sensor Strength they have now against ECM to get more of them out there fighting without sitting there like a sad panda getting popped without a nice showing. This ^^^
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.05.19 07:04:00 - [49] Originally by: Vyllana I think a rattlesnake with 1 missile bonus and 1 drone bonus would be awesome. There are no other drone/missile ships in game, and it would make a very versatile combo. 10% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo explosion velocity per Caldari Battleship skill level 10% bonus to drone damage/hitpoints per Gallente Battleship skill level special: 100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage 6 highs (4 missile hardpoints, 2 turret hardpoints) [-2 highs] 7 meds [+1 med] 6 lows [no change] 125m3 drone bandwidth, 250m3 drone bay It would make an amazing PvE boat as well as a fearsome battleship for PvP. No missile damage bonus? Well, it'd still be the new king of PvE. Oh, btw, Golem only gets 5% to exp vel.
abrasive soap Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.19 07:11:00 - [50] Originally by: Ghoest Minmatar battleships are a cornucopia of problems. The Navy Tempest is on par with the normal BS of other faction. The normal Tempest is a gimp. And the Mach falls in between a normal tempest and a Navy Tempest. The only Minamatar BS that doesnt suck relative to other races is the Phoon - but it requires about 25 mill points to be worth using. the maelstrom would like a word with you
abrasive soap Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.19 07:12:00 - [51] and make the navy apoc cool or bring a navy geddon in
Korell Nova	Posted - 2009.05.19 08:01:00 - [52] As many have said here what has been done with sanshas is the way to go with both empire and pirate faction ships(not just the bs's) it would also quieten down the whiners asking for a pvp based maurader and would make them actually realise their present price tag, 1 bil for a nightmare is correct its an amzing ship and dps dps is some of the best if not THE best in game for a ship its size.the others mostly cost the same (pirate) and yet they dont realise their isk price because of their bonuses and slot layouts. Atm most of the pirate ships are collectors items and dust collectors because we just cant balance their cost against their efficiency( i should know i have them all and only one gets undocked on any type of regular basis and that is the mare). With the hopefully soon upcoming tweaks to Npcs AI and stats changing these ships to actually making them challenging and scary will become alot easier to justify. Now before you post your Uber i win changes to these ships think about them a little, look at what racial's apply to them think about the maurader bonus the mare has, work with it not to make the super i win button ship but to make a ship that combines the best of both races and holds with the games storyline. For instance why not change the whole idea of the rattle around and turn it into an armor tanking(gallente racial) torp/cruise boat(caldari racial)[this also stops ppl screaming for the khanid bs that has been wanted for years] or a shield tanking drone boat with the maurader bonus changed towards drone damage and hp. Now i know you are now screaming wtf a armor tanking missile boat but stop a sec look what they did with the mare, made a shield tanking laser platform complete change from what it was b4..... but it worked and its worked so well. So yes i agree that ALL faction ships need changing both navy and pirate but i think they also need to be balanced as the pvp option of mauraders.
Juliette DuBois	Posted - 2009.05.19 08:11:00 - [53] Originally by: Sokratesz Agreeing with wildcat here, but please ccp, also fix the fleet pest :( Fleet pest would be fine, IF base ship was fixed first. Normal pest is fairly crippled ship except that it looks cool [kinda]. Doesn¦t really make much of a sniper and fails in RR due to being almost impossible to gank and buffer at the same time unlike many of it¦s competitors. Midslot utility has been consistently getting nerfed, latest ECM nerf made that extra slot/s of pest less useful once again.
Chakarr	Posted - 2009.05.19 08:55:00 - [54] Originally by: Gunner Cid Personally I think that [faction ships] should all get the "Marauder Treatment". This ^ Make the faction ships mini-marauders, big damage bonus, less weapon slots - that would stand them apart from their normal counterparts and allow more interesting fittings...it worked for the nightmare didn't it? Also makes a 'marauder class' ship available to players with more money than skills/time.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.19 13:22:00 - [55] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Vyllana I think a rattlesnake with 1 missile bonus and 1 drone bonus would be awesome. There are no other drone/missile ships in game, and it would make a very versatile combo. 10% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo explosion velocity per Caldari Battleship skill level 10% bonus to drone damage/hitpoints per Gallente Battleship skill level special: 100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage 6 highs (4 missile hardpoints, 2 turret hardpoints) [-2 highs] 7 meds [+1 med] 6 lows [no change] 125m3 drone bandwidth, 250m3 drone bay It would make an amazing PvE boat as well as a fearsome battleship for PvP. No missile damage bonus? Well, it'd still be the new king of PvE. Oh, btw, Golem only gets 5% to exp vel. Yeah, it's far too much of a carebearmobile. And for PVP, the explosion velocity bonus would be worthless in practice, as your torp target would always be webbed.
Hadrian Zorn	Posted - 2009.05.19 13:55:00 - [56] I would prefer the missile rof + dronedamage on the Rattlesnake. Just what you would suspect from a Caldari/Gallente crossbread. I mean I would take large hybrid optimal + large hybrid damage, too. But I fear many people wouldn't like it.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa.	Posted - 2009.05.19 14:11:00 - [57] I agree with wildcat and yes please, torp rattlesnake with drone bonus and space and bandwidth for 5x heavies/sentries drools -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
SickSeven The Undead Righteous Knights	Posted - 2009.05.19 14:47:00 - [58] Originally by: Shereza Honestly, I love the machariel as it is. It might not be the battleship I use the most but it's one of the top two or three I use when I want to have fun. Having said that, I cannot for the life of my think of anything that would benefit the machariel more than a "boost" to projectile weapons in general and autocannons in specific. The ship's bonuses are fine and there's no real reason to turn it into another marauder clone like the nightmare (which, sadly, in many respects is superior to its marauder counter-part, the paladin). If anything on the ship it would be the top speed and fitting capacities. I'd personally prefer to see the top speed boosted 19m/s to 180m/s and the CPU and power grid bumped up by 25-50tf and 2,000mw respectively. Bost its base speed, let it fit gear a little more easily, and boost projectile weapons and the machariel ought to do significantly better than it does now, which is still pretty good all things considered, without changing any of the core aspects of the ship. THIS!!!! ^^^ Honestly if CCP would just balance large projectiles in general(and XL) a lot of Minmatar woes would be silenced. Give us back our alpha. Fix the tempest and then apply changes to the Fleet Pest. And stop giving Minnies ships (other than the Phoon) so many unbonused weapon slots!! The Typhoon is an old relic. Look at the Hurricane and the Maelstrom, that is the direction Minmatar are going! Stop going backwards! That stupid little "mini-phoon" of a faction cruiser is pointless! Fix our weapons, fix the Pest, and Make the Mach fast again!
Gallente Citizen2515145	Posted - 2009.05.20 09:57:00 - [59] As a Rattlesnake pilot, I am actually well pleased with the ship. You can easily set it up as a passive tank, and make it a better one than the drake as is. It doesn't make sense to me to drop any of the mids or lows. I do like the thought however of giving it 4 launcher hard points with the 100% bonus to missile/torp damage. I also like the idea of using the standard Gallente drone bonuses with the possibility of a 125 m3 drone bay and bandwidth, and hells no that would not be too strong as the passive tank eats up all possibilities of placing ballistic control systems, and actually hell, I would even settle for 100 m3 and 100 drone bandwidth, but give it one of those at least. As far as ECM bonuses goes, that is nonsense since no one in their right mind would use this ship as a pvp platform. We have plenty of bullsh@t ECM ships anyways. Someone else said make it a blaster plattform, /facepalm, no, we have the mega, navy mega, vindicator, kronos, and semi machariel for that, we don't need any more lame blaster platforms. Someone said that if you want a faction drone ship then push for the dominix to be it, yes, I agree, but let that be more like a navy dominix or something, and something seperate from the rattlesnake.
Steed Rilelore	Posted - 2009.05.20 10:15:00 - [60] Originally by: Gunner Cid Personally I think that the Rattlesnake, Vindicator and Machariel should all get the "Marauder Treatment". 4 Hardpoints - 100% dmg bonus. 5% dmg or rof per one BS lvl, 7.5% tracking or missile velocity per the other BS level. Tweak the grid CPU so they can be fit out. Bhaalgorn could have the -Cap use on Guns bonus changed to a flat 25% dmg bonus or something like -Cap Use on Neuts Would really make the ships more useful. But then what would be the point of spending the extra month training up for Marauders? I very strongly and sincerely agree with the OP, but I do not - in any way - feel that Faction ships should be on par with the Marauders in that sense. The web and neut nerfs did affect the Bhaalgorn, the MWD revamp painfully crippled the Vindicator's use (used to have a -100% cap penalty with skills if I can recall) - both need to be fixed in my humble opinion (Bonus to MWD speed for vindi and web and neut range / strength for Bhaal?) The Rattlesnake does beg for something more than just "missile velocity" - maybe an "Explosion velocity" or "Explosion radius" lowering boost to make it somewhat of a stealthbomber against cruiser sized ships? And the Minmatar ship could do with a bit more damage bonuses, or range bonuses (Minmatars can have a sniping BS for a change? ::D), or a bit of both?
quygen Minmatar Acting Neutral	Posted - 2009.05.20 12:41:00 - [61] Originally by: Steed Rilelore the MWD revamp painfully crippled the Vindicator's use (used to have a -100% cap penalty with skills if I can recall) You haven't been flying a vindi latly right? It's is still the -5% penalty to MWD cap penalty. The result: + 25% cap bonus when fitting a 0% cap penalty MWD Like x-type or officer. Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 - Mitnal
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.20 13:07:00 - [62] Originally by: quygen Originally by: Steed Rilelore the MWD revamp painfully crippled the Vindicator's use (used to have a -100% cap penalty with skills if I can recall) You haven't been flying a vindi latly right? It's is still the -5% penalty to MWD cap penalty. The result: + 25% cap bonus when fitting a 0% cap penalty MWD Like x-type or officer. It doesn't work like that. You can get higher than base cap with a MWD that has a bit of a penalty (like faction, a-type, whatever), but one that has no penalty will also have no bonus. That bonus is pretty much useless, to be honest. You're very likely to be fitted with a cap injector either way (being vulnerable to neuts in an expensive ship like that sucks), so the little extra gained cap is negligible.
Darkerz Reloaded Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.20 13:13:00 - [63] Give the Nightmare 4 more turret slots and keep the 100 % bonus.... Because i want my nightmare to be so much moar better.
Gallente Citizen2515145	Posted - 2009.05.20 17:06:00 - [64] But then what would be the point of spending the extra month training up for Marauders? I very strongly and sincerely agree with the OP, but I do not - in any way - feel that Faction ships should be on par with the Marauders in that sense. The web and neut nerfs did affect the Bhaalgorn, the MWD revamp painfully crippled the Vindicator's use (used to have a -100% cap penalty with skills if I can recall) - both need to be fixed in my humble opinion (Bonus to MWD speed for vindi and web and neut range / strength for Bhaal?) The Rattlesnake does beg for something more than just "missile velocity" - maybe an "Explosion velocity" or "Explosion radius" lowering boost to make it somewhat of a stealthbomber against cruiser sized ships? And the Minmatar ship could do with a bit more damage bonuses, or range bonuses (Minmatars can have a sniping BS for a change? ::D), or a bit of both? People will still fly marauders because the marauders will have the tractor beam bonus, along with the larger cargo hold that the faction ships do not, and should not have. Besides marauders like the Golem, and paladin are pretty comparable in damage with ships lke the nightmare.
Aurican Tetro Gallente The Accursed	Posted - 2009.05.21 04:24:00 - [65] Nightmare - Of course, awesome. Best faction ship atm. Rattlesnake - You can fit a pretty nice Rattlesnake. Though I think the hybrid bonus is a complete waste. I'd say a shield resist bonus, but I think that might be bordering on OP. Machariel - With only 6 turret hardpoints, you either have pretty bad DPS (extra low for tank) or pretty bad tank (extra low for DPS). The utility slots for nos/neuts might make up for it, though. Pretty well balanced with the Vindicator, imo. Bhaalgorn - This ship is an odd-ball in the faction BS lineup. It's not going to be a solopwnmobile like the rest have the capability to pull off, but God damn will it be terrifying in gangs. Ridiculous buffer tank, with nearly a full rack of the best officer neuts with a range of 40km. I wouldn't want to go anywhere near this thing in any ship. Vindicator - I'm dumbfounded. Kronos is a straight up better ship than the Vindicator, besides the sensor strength. And let's face it, if a Falcon is on grid, you're going to be jammed regardless of whether you have 10, or 20 sensor strength. Kronos tanks better, is more cap stable, does more dps, is faster due to not having as many armor rigs, and has drones to spare. I'm not sure what can be done to balance this.. I really like the MWD bonus of the Vindicator, and without it I believe it's cap issues would only lag farther behind the Kronos.
Tauranon Gallente Wandering Provocateurs Communitas	Posted - 2009.05.21 07:37:00 - [66] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Rogue Drone Infested Dominix. That would be unbelievably awesome. Signed.
Letifer Deus Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.23 03:50:00 - [67] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 23/05/2009 03:50:04 Originally by: DHB WildCat Vindicator - I honestly dont know what to do with it... When a kronos / Hyperion active tanks better with similar dps, or a Navy Mega passive tanks much better with more dps..... Kinda a worthless ship atm. IMO, trade tracking bonus for rep amount bonus. Then you basically have a hyperion with a 7th low, utility high, significant cap capacity advantage (~2.3K w/a-type mwd), lower sig rad. and a huge agility advantage. Also, why does it have to be stuck with vanilla pg/cpu? One of the reasons the nightmare is so good (besides all the other reasons it ****s face) is that it really doesn't have to worry about fitting reqs. I suggest upping pg/cpu on vindi by 10%, possibly even more on the PG. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
iudex Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.05.23 09:25:00 - [68] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton wouldn't that be nice. machy is a 900mil tempest/phoon, not quite sure which one is is supposed to be. I figured after the nano nerf they would be around 500mil by now, wtf is making them so expensive The fact that it takes 400.000 Angel LP and 100 mil isk to get a BPC. Selling BPCs for less than ~700 mil makes no sense, as there are better items for cashing in Angel LPs at this price level. If I don't get that price, I don't buy the Machariel BPC from the LP store. And it looks like the mission-runners are the only or at least the main source of Machariel BPCs atm, many of the offers on contracts are from people who I sometimes see in the Angel mission-hubs or from members of corps/alliances who operate there, fortunately the supply from plexing seems to be rather low or non-existent. I totally agree with OP, most of that ships should get a little boost or overhaul, to make their quality and performance reflect their rarity and price. My skills Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +8.57 / Gallente Federation -9.97
Rukia KuchikiSan	Posted - 2009.05.23 09:44:00 - [69] Originally by: DHB WildCat bla bla bla Do you write in orange becouse you feel cool? Poor you...
MOS DEF 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.05.23 11:11:00 - [70] I love my bhaal. If you`d give it more grid i`d be happy as well but i love it as it is allready. Biggest downside of it is that it isn`t really possible to make a decent fit with "normal" tech II mods. That`s not such a big issue considering the ships baseprice though. If you invest that much you might as well do it right. ___
DHB WildCat D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.05.23 15:06:00 - [71] Originally by: MOS DEF I love my bhaal. If you`d give it more grid i`d be happy as well but i love it as it is allready. Biggest downside of it is that it isn`t really possible to make a decent fit with "normal" tech II mods. That`s not such a big issue considering the ships baseprice though. If you invest that much you might as well do it right. The problem is MOS, that I want to fit it right. I want to fit officer on it... try fitting an officer tank, and some officer nuets in eft... then come back about "the right" fit not working 8). Dead Space / officer is the right fit for these ships, not DB, or TS stuff tbh. 8) WildCat
Letifer Deus Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.27 00:54:00 - [72] mor debat plz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"

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