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Saisio Arisu	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:23:00 - [1] During my time in eve i have been seeing missils got nerfed the drake and now ecm, just cause caldari ship are skillpoint heavy dosen't mean that the players who does developed their skill towards it shall suffer because of the players who doesn't refer to the general mass of the eve community starts screaming for nerf.
Demjon	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:28:00 - [2] Its over m8, Caldari are the black sheep now. Since most players are Caldari and have nearly completed thier training for them it only makes sense that CCP would "encourge" these pilots to pick another race. I think minnie would be good since they can shield tank as well. just a suggestion
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:32:00 - [3] Not the same poster are you?Linkage Anyhow, read my post there. Caldari are only currently nerfed because they didn't fit well into the way the other races fought. The missile nerf made it so battleship weapons have to target battleships for maximum effect, and the falcon nerf brought it into line with the other reacons. Train another race while you wait for them to be brought back up to normal levels. ________________________________________________ Check out my ideas! New Destroyers
Saisio Arisu	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:48:00 - [4] Futher, if you look at the bonuses that the general caldari ship have they got bonuses for range combat. Based on what i have figure out an maxed out dampining pilot could easyly take out the old ecm jamming range with 4 damps with range scripts. Take alsow not that caladri only have one ew type, the rest of the races got 2 types. For people who don't know the ew types. Amar got cap stealing and tracking disroupting. Gallente damps and scram/disrupting. Minmatar webs and painting.
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:15:00 - [5] You have to remember that Caldari ships will only work if playing to thier strengths, which do not include solo pvp. Other things: No one uses 4 damps on a single ship. Even the ones with bonuses (Arazu/Lachesis/Keres/Maulus/Celestis) are not equipped with that many. ECM is double or triple bonused (leading to the Falcon problem, where it gets a strength bonus and a range bonus that makes it better than equivalent Ewarfare at long range), which makes it much better than the equivalents And I think that minmatar ships are more skillpoint heavy TBH. ________________________________________________ Check out my ideas! New Destroyers
4THELULZ	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:25:00 - [6] Quote: missils got nerfed Missiles are fine. Quote: the drake Is an excellent ship. Quote: and now ecm Is still good, just not godmode. Quote: caldari ship are skillpoint heavy Try flying Minmatar. Quote: mass of the eve community starts screaming for nerf. I'd only be worrying about nerf cries if you fly Amarr.
Saisio Arisu	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Bibbleibble You have to remember that Caldari ships will only work if playing to thier strengths, which do not include solo pvp. Other things: No one uses 4 damps on a single ship. Even the ones with bonuses (Arazu/Lachesis/Keres/Maulus/Celestis) are not equipped with that many. ECM is double or triple bonused (leading to the Falcon problem, where it gets a strength bonus and a range bonus that makes it better than equivalent Ewarfare at long range), which makes it much better than the equivalents And I think that minmatar ships are more skillpoint heavy TBH. that i haven't think of before now, the thing with mini ships, then again both caldari and minmatar are for the most shield tankers, which are more sp heavy then armor tanks.
4THELULZ	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:41:00 - [8] Originally by: Saisio Arisu that i haven't think of before now, the thing with mini ships, then again both caldari and minmatar are for the most shield tankers, which are more sp heavy then armor tanks. I think the pitiful amount of SP I was able to easily tank out my early ships in would disagree with you there. Armour tanking also has huge disadvantages of its own.
Bigpimping Pimp Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:45:00 - [9] Stop.... hammer time. ________________________________________ He who pimps, is God...
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:49:00 - [10] Invuln field II: tactical shield manipulation IV Large shield extender II: Shield upgrades IV Shield HP: Shield management IV So to be succesfull at shield tanking you need 3 skills at lvl 4 (sure if you want active tank you need more, but an active tank really isnt needed on 90% of the ships). So how exactly do shield tanks require much SP?
Magnus Castaneus Cross Roads	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:49:00 - [11] lulz... ecm still rocks... oh, and i'm a minny character that just recently trained for caldari ships and i've got to say, i can fly them really well, and it probly only takes half of my current sp to fly them well... skill intensive my ass...
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:58:00 - [12] Edited by: Mona X on 21/05/2009 17:58:31 Originally by: Bibbleibble Anyhow, read my post there. Caldari are only currently nerfed because they didn't fit well into the way the other races fought. The missile nerf made it so battleship weapons have to target battleships for maximum effect, and the falcon nerf brought it into line with the other reacons. Petition: Bring Rokh in line with other battleships, and give her the freaking damage bonus.
Liang Nuren No Salvation Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:00:00 - [13] Originally by: Saisio Arisu just cause caldari ship are skillpoint heavy dosen't mean that the players who does developed their skill towards it shall suffer Caldari Skill requirements: - Shields - Missiles OR - Shields - Guns Minmatar Skill Requirements: - Shields - Armor - Gunnery - Missiles - Drones -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
1600 RT	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:00:00 - [14] i understood it was a troll when you said that caldari is skill intensive. train minmatar and then come back.
1600 RT	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:01:00 - [15] Originally by: Liang Nuren Minmatar Skill Requirements: - Shields - Armor - Gunnery - Missiles - Drones -Liang -Liang is a skill req. to fly minmatar?
Rukia KuchikiSan	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:12:00 - [16] Originally by: 4THELULZ Quote: missils got nerfed Missiles are fine. Quote: the drake Is an excellent ship. Quote: and now ecm Is still good, just not godmode. Quote: caldari ship are skillpoint heavy Try flying Minmatar. Quote: mass of the eve community starts screaming for nerf. I'd only be worrying about nerf cries if you fly Amarr. This, except for the last 2 points, in fact: "caldari ship are skillpoint heavy": means nothing and it's not true, they require less sp then othere races to perform good. "mass of the eve community starts screaming for nerf": that simply means that something is broken and need to be fixed. Don't cry, caldari is a good race, you are simply searching for a god mode.
Rukia KuchikiSan	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:13:00 - [17] Edited by: Rukia KuchikiSan on 21/05/2009 18:13:30 Originally by: Mona X Edited by: Mona X on 21/05/2009 17:58:31 Originally by: Bibbleibble Anyhow, read my post there. Caldari are only currently nerfed because they didn't fit well into the way the other races fought. The missile nerf made it so battleship weapons have to target battleships for maximum effect, and the falcon nerf brought it into line with the other reacons. Petition: Bring Rokh in line with other battleships, and give her the freaking damage bonus. Holy noobness... his range bonus allow that ship to sit further than any other sniper, and that is a huge advantage.
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:20:00 - [18] Originally by: Rukia KuchikiSan Holy noobness... his range bonus allow that ship to sit further than any other sniper, and that is a huge advantage. No it's not! The range advantage is too small to mean anything. The range bonus need to be boosted so the Rokh can accurately hit targets from two systems over!
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Mona X Petition: Bring Rokh in line with other battleships, and give her the freaking damage bonus. Erm the rokh can fit a full tank and gank setup or anything in between like maybe some extra ew as its a shield tanker. No need for any changes. Originally by: 4THELULZ I'd only be worrying about nerf cries if you fly Amarr. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon as Amarr's only real claim to greatness atm is Scorch. And yes I will agree that Minmatar are skill intensive but that is mostly due to the crosstraining and not that you have to max out any single branch of skill. Amarr on the other hand take loads of extra level 5 skills just to be able to gain that bit of superiourity over other ships that are only at level 4 support skills. Granted Amarr are still better even if the other race also has max support skills but the drawback is that they pretty much suck until you get to T2 and only attain godlike fotm status with max skills whilst the other three races do just fine with best named mods and faction ammo. Especially Caldari with their lol skill reqs for effective setups. So let us compare what it takes to fit out the relevant race with its defining weapon. T2 Siege T2 Tachyon Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Mystafyre Caldari Dark Materials Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Saisio Arisu During my time in eve i have been seeing missils got nerfed the drake and now ecm, just cause caldari ship are skillpoint heavy dosen't mean that the players who does developed their skill towards it shall suffer because of the players who doesn't refer to the general mass of the eve community starts screaming for nerf. Caldari rawks Train more skillpoints
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.05.21 19:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Furb Killer Invuln field II: tactical shield manipulation IV Large shield extender II: Shield upgrades IV Shield HP: Shield management IV So to be succesfull at shield tanking you need 3 skills at lvl 4 (sure if you want active tank you need more, but an active tank really isnt needed on 90% of the ships). So how exactly do shield tanks require much SP? If you summarize it like this, Armor tanking only needs Hull Upgrades 5 and youre done.
Shardrael Caldari Titan Industries Technology Team	Posted - 2009.05.21 20:13:00 - [22] I stopped reading when you said caldari were skillpoint heavy caldari still have great ships in every class maybe except interceptors, but they have a good af, good hacs, good dictor, good heavy dictor, great bs, great command ship, and good bs...... and if you complain about ecm try flying a rapier, webs werent even that op really and now they are useless..... Signature locked. Please submit a petition to discuss the matter further. Navigator
Lego Maniac Minmatar Dusty Death Enterprise Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.05.21 20:24:00 - [23] STOP, NERF CALDARI is that what this thread is about?
voogru Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2009.05.21 21:01:00 - [24] nerf caldari Hate Farmers? Click Here
Psiri	Posted - 2009.05.21 21:03:00 - [25] The Scorp nerf was completely uncalled for, rockets sure could need some loving too (although I'm sure that Amarr would be the ones most happy about that). Other than that Caldari suffer from the same issues as Minmatar and Gallente, ie not having lasers.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2009.05.21 21:08:00 - [26] Edited by: voogru on 21/05/2009 21:08:03 Originally by: Psiri The Scorp nerf was completely uncalled for, rockets sure could need some loving too (although I'm sure that Amarr would be the ones most happy about that). Other than that Caldari suffer from the same issues as Minmatar and Gallente, ie not having lasers. You can fit lasers on gallente, caldari, and minmatar ships. Just have a guardian sending you cap to run them. Hate Farmers? Click Here
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.21 21:44:00 - [27] Nerfs to the caldari over the last few years: Missile nerf, ECM nerf To the minmatar: Nano nerf X 2, nos nerf, missile nerf, web nerf, drone shield nerf. To the amarr: Nos nerf, drone shield nerf, drone bandwidth nerf. To the gallente: Drone shield nerf, Drone bandwidth nerf, Nos nerf, Nano nerf (the first one, second wasn't a very big deal for gal), web nerf, MWD nerf, damp nerf. The reason caldari players seem to think they've been shafted so hard is because it's been AGES since the caldari got a proper whack with the nerf bat. Get over it, it's something all races have been through and the fact of the matter is that if you put all your SP into one race (I seem to recall some conventional wisdom about not putting all of one's eggs into one basket) sooner or later you're gonna get shafted. I myself fly 3 of the 4 races, so unless minmatar become the FOTM () I'm pretty much nerf proof, and tbh I'd suggest everyone else do the same. It's also worth mentioning that caldari are in no way useless at pvp, as many eve players would have you believe. The falcon is still a freaking awesome recon, and the rook is damn near godly now (albeit moreso for highsec wars). The raven is still an awesome supporting DPS boat, even if it needs a dedicated tackler with it to be effective (and it would be way OP for it not to need one given that it can put out blasterthron DPS at 30km) If you wanna pvp with caldari, you're going to need friends, because caldari suck at solo pvp. That being said they have awesome gang/fleet ships and anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot. Oh and IMO the drake has always been crap for pvp, the only nerf IIRC that it's been really hit by was the shield recharge nerf and tbh it's still too much of a flying tank IMO, give it a missile speed bonus instead of a resist bonus, then we'd be talkin good pvp material
abrasive soap Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.22 00:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Cambarus Nerfs to the caldari over the last few years: Missile nerf, ECM nerf, torp splash damage nerf (lol), that one nerf where only specific missile could fit in specific launchers instead of having 1 cruise missile in a standard launcher etc. To the minmatar: Nano nerf X 2, nos nerf, missile nerf, web nerf, drone shield nerf. To the amarr: Nos nerf, drone shield nerf, drone bandwidth nerf, nano nerf To the gallente: Drone shield nerf, Drone bandwidth nerf, Nos nerf, Nano nerf (the first one, second wasn't a very big deal for gal), web nerf, MWD nerf, damp nerf. The reason caldari players seem to think they've been shafted so hard is because it's been AGES since the caldari got a proper whack with the nerf bat. Get over it, it's something all races have been through and the fact of the matter is that if you put all your SP into one race (I seem to recall some conventional wisdom about not putting all of one's eggs into one basket) sooner or later you're gonna get shafted. I myself fly 3 of the 4 races, so unless minmatar become the FOTM () I'm pretty much nerf proof, and tbh I'd suggest everyone else do the same. It's also worth mentioning that caldari are in no way useless at pvp, as many eve players would have you believe. The falcon is still a freaking awesome recon, and the rook is damn near godly now (albeit moreso for highsec wars). The raven is still an awesome supporting DPS boat, even if it needs a dedicated tackler with it to be effective (and it would be way OP for it not to need one given that it can put out blasterthron DPS at 30km) If you wanna pvp with caldari, you're going to need friends, because caldari suck at solo pvp. That being said they have awesome gang/fleet ships and anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot. Oh and IMO the drake has always been crap for pvp, the only nerf IIRC that it's been really hit by was the shield recharge nerf and tbh it's still too much of a flying tank IMO, give it a missile speed bonus instead of a resist bonus, then we'd be talkin good pvp material fyp and the ham drake was pretty good pre nano nerf for a in your face missile spammer but the missile formula change destroyed hams, rockets, and for the most part, torps. On the other hand, standard missiles, heavy missiles, and cruise missiles (sort of but not really since they could insta pop non moving frigates pre nano nerf/missile changes) were given a pretty significant increase since most things could just outrun the missiles. Now they hurt quite a bit and they always hit.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.05.22 01:18:00 - [29] Originally by: 4THELULZ Quote: missils got nerfed Missiles are fine. Quote: the drake Is an excellent ship. Quote: and now ecm Is still good, just not godmode. Quote: caldari ship are skillpoint heavy Try flying Minmatar. Quote: mass of the eve community starts screaming for nerf. I'd only be worrying about nerf cries if you fly Amarr. This, only 2 times I can think of where ppl cried for caldari nerf was just after speed nerf (missiles where just stupid on test server) and because of the falcon. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls Please resize sig to a maximum file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
A Pacifist Republic University	Posted - 2009.05.22 01:27:00 - [30] Caldari are fine, its shields that need some love tbh.

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