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Saai Einjhar Black Ice Tactical Echelon	Posted - 2009.06.04 23:18:00 - [1] well? 4 Cabinet Ministers gone already. Your 'Right Honourable' representatives seem to be dropping like flies. Ironic. Hope you guys get your establishment sorted out soon guys.
Another Liberthas Caldari Ha'Menudim	Posted - 2009.06.05 00:01:00 - [2] "Sorting" it would involve a general election, and Brown doesn't seem to want that to happen.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.06.05 00:04:00 - [3] Watching New Labour slowly rot and die has become a bit of a past time.
KingsGambit Caldari Knights	Posted - 2009.06.05 00:18:00 - [4] I actually voted today Picked at random from anyone that wasn't one of the big three, the BNP or the one called No2Europe or some such. They're all as bad as each other, really not interested. Only filled out ballot card cos I was getting a lift right past polling station. -------------
Arron S Gallente Final Conflict UK Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.06.05 04:41:00 - [5] I have not figured out why the UK has not formed its self into a Federation like the US and Canada
goodby4u Valor Inc. Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.06.05 04:48:00 - [6] Originally by: Arron S I have not figured out why the UK has not formed its self into a Federation like the US and Canada They tried that, then william wallace came along....
WhiteSavage Gallente Altruism.	Posted - 2009.06.05 05:19:00 - [7] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Arron S I have not figured out why the UK has not formed its self into a Federation like the US and Canada They tried that, then william wallace came along.... You mean Mel Gibson ofc
Awesome Possum Insert Obscure Latin Name	Posted - 2009.06.05 06:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Arron S I have not figured out why the UK has not formed its self into a Federation like the US and Canada uh... what? As far as I'm aware, Canada and Great Britain have an identical political system. They even have the same Head of State. ;) ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
rValdez5987 Amarr Imperial Guard.	Posted - 2009.06.05 07:03:00 - [9] Hailing from the USA 0/ Sounds like you chaps are having some trouble, but no worries.. just make sure you don't get the British equivalent of George Bush in office and you'll make it through. Good luck!
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.06.05 07:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: Arron S I have not figured out why the UK has not formed its self into a Federation like the US and Canada uh... what? As far as I'm aware, Canada and Great Britain have an identical political system. They even have the same Head of State. ;) They are slightly different methinks, but are essentailly the same. Besides we also have a representitive of our actual head of state, although I doubt the Queen would ever reach into a seal rip out its heart and eat it (which BTW was totally awesome).
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.05 08:05:00 - [11] A general election would not help things. Do we really think Young Davie will reverse any of the shenanigans Labour have been up to? (I love using the word "shenanigans" in a sentence) However, it is excellent entertainment to watch the government tear itself to pieces. It's been threatening to happen several times in the last few years, but I think this time it's actually happening. ____________________
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2009.06.05 08:38:00 - [12] It's 1996 all over again... - MC
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2009.06.05 08:40:00 - [13] I think David Cameron would be a welcome change to Brown. A general election is definatley needed. Hanging on for another year is not oging to help anyone. Doesn't look like his Cabinet is going tio allow that anyway, he's lost all control. The Tories have a charasmatic young leader. Something we need. He might not have the experience Gordon does, but the Tories have a wealth of experience in thier shadow cabinet and in thier backbenches. William Hague is a fine example, Kenneth Clarke, etc etc. We need an election.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.05 08:42:00 - [14] Originally by: hedfunk I think David Cameron would be a welcome change to Brown. A general election is definatley needed. Hanging on for another year is not oging to help anyone. Doesn't look like his Cabinet is going tio allow that anyway, he's lost all control. The Tories have a charasmatic young leader. Something we need. He might not have the experience Gordon does, but the Tories have a wealth of experience in thier shadow cabinet and in thier backbenches. William Hague is a fine example, Kenneth Clarke, etc etc. We need an election. I believer the same was said of Blair back in 96/97/whenever the f it was.
sp3cial forc3s 0ne Man 0ne P3ni5 The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.06.05 09:25:00 - [15] The two last PM's of Britain have been shocking, theyve both plotted to destroy beautiful England...why???? Because there both scottish!!! Vote UKIP btw
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.05 09:31:00 - [16] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s The two last PM's of Britain have been shocking, theyve both plotted to destroy beautiful England...why???? Because there both scottish!! That's a bit racist tbh. In what way have they "plotted to destroy beautiful England"? Apart from the furore over Iraq, I reckon Tony Blair did a sterling job. I doubt anyone in Scotland or Wales is going to be champing at the bit to go back to the days before devolution, whilst I'm sure people in Northern Ireland would be absolutely delighted to go back to before the Good Friday Agreement which Blair helped broker. I really don't see anything that either of them have done to specifically "destroy England".
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.05 09:31:00 - [17] Edited by: Blane Xero on 05/06/2009 09:32:39 Originally by: sp3cial forc3s The two last PM's of Britain have been shocking, theyve both plotted to destroy beautiful England...why???? Because there both scottish!!! Vote UKIP btw Damn, We've been Foiled. Time to get the third one in there and seal the deal. Edit: Tallaran, its a joke. But we WILL overthrow england ^_^ ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.05 09:33:00 - [18] Originally by: Saai Einjhar well? 4 Cabinet Ministers gone already. Your 'Right Honourable' representatives seem to be dropping like flies. Ironic. Your terminology is wrong. Our representatives are not "Right Honourable" - Members of Parliament are styled the "Honourable Member". The only people styled "Right Honourable" are members of the Privy Council, which MPs generally are not. Cabinet Ministers are nearly always appointed to the Privy Council, but they aren't out representatives. If you want to be ironic, get the terminology right first. Quote: Hope you guys get your establishment sorted out soon guys. I don't, I'm quite enjoying watching the failcascade :)
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.05 09:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Blane Xero Edit: Tallaran, its a joke. But we WILL overthrow england ^_^ I was going to also say, that having done a 200 mile motorcycle circuit around Loch Lomond and along the bottom of the highlands on Monday night, "beautiful" England really has nothing on Scotland :)
Motaka Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.05 10:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Originally by: sp3cial forc3s The two last PM's of Britain have been shocking, theyve both plotted to destroy beautiful England...why???? Because there both scottish!! That's a bit racist tbh. In what way have they "plotted to destroy beautiful England"? Apart from the furore over Iraq, I reckon Tony Blair did a sterling job. I doubt anyone in Scotland or Wales is going to be champing at the bit to go back to the days before devolution, whilst I'm sure people in Northern Ireland would be absolutely delighted to go back to before the Good Friday Agreement which Blair helped broker. I really don't see anything that either of them have done to specifically "destroy England". Are you on crack?The groundwork for the Northern Ireland treaty was laid by John Major.Tony Blair sold the UK down the river by allowing all these eastern europeans into the country.time to send them home.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.05 10:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Motaka Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Originally by: sp3cial forc3s The two last PM's of Britain have been shocking, theyve both plotted to destroy beautiful England...why???? Because there both scottish!! That's a bit racist tbh. In what way have they "plotted to destroy beautiful England"? Apart from the furore over Iraq, I reckon Tony Blair did a sterling job. I doubt anyone in Scotland or Wales is going to be champing at the bit to go back to the days before devolution, whilst I'm sure people in Northern Ireland would be absolutely delighted to go back to before the Good Friday Agreement which Blair helped broker. I really don't see anything that either of them have done to specifically "destroy England". Are you on crack?The groundwork for the Northern Ireland treaty was laid by John Major.Tony Blair sold the UK down the river by allowing all these eastern europeans into the country.time to send them home. Polish girls are hot. Your argument is invalid. ____________________
TimGascoigne The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.05 10:56:00 - [22] I'm going to say this as quickly as possible before the topic gets locked for being politics. I for one think that political threads should be allowed in OOPE. New Labour have destroyed the first four years after school of my life. Fortunately I am now in a sensible career ( British Army REME ftw ). So as you can imagine it is my hope that new Labour hold on to power for as long as possible so when they ultimately collapse it will be as hard as possible. That way it will be the longest possible time before more labour evil hits number 10 (I shudder at the thought) PS I hope you'll voted Conservative in the council election
Reiisha Evolution KenZoku	Posted - 2009.06.05 10:59:00 - [23] Jeremy Clarkson for PM.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.05 11:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Reiisha Jeremy Clarkson for PM. The Stig for PM.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.06.05 11:13:00 - [25] Originally by: hedfunk I think David Cameron would be a welcome change to Brown. A general election is definatley needed. Hanging on for another year is not oging to help anyone. Doesn't look like his Cabinet is going tio allow that anyway, he's lost all control. The Tories have a charasmatic young leader. Something we need. He might not have the experience Gordon does, but the Tories have a wealth of experience in thier shadow cabinet and in thier backbenches. William Hague is a fine example, Kenneth Clarke, etc etc. We need an election. Not only is David Cameron a typical example of upper-class young conservative (complete with ruddy cheeks and boyish looks), but he has based himself on Tony Blair (amusing, seeing as New Labour took a heavy influence from the Tories). Remember how fantastic everyone felt when Tony Blair got in. Now think how people generally regard him, despite having presided over a stable period. This is how people will feel about Cameron eventually. He was selected because he was the most presentable out of the Tory contenders at the time, whereas I think their best representative was David Davies. But as always, style wins out over substance (I've never been a Tory supporter, but I can still give credit where it's due). Like most politicians, he will promise the earth and never deliver, and yet we fall for it every time. If you think Cameron's going to be a refreshing change, you're going to be disappointed. Politics requires a new style of politician if it is going to effect any real change. If anything showed up the differences between the 'old school' leanings of the parties, then the expenses scandal did. The Tories has the upper class frauds, like cleaning a moat, building a house exclusively for ducks (well, a small shed), and expenses on a massive mansion that everyone was jealous of. Labour had all the grubby social climber wannabes frauds, mostly involved in home improvement, and the Liberals had all the pathetic ones, like claiming for a packet of Hob Nobs and kitchen utensils. Tories had all the ludicrous exploits, showing up their "the rich get richer" colours (especially by renting accommodation of their own children, claiming double home allowances and employing remote family members as staff). Labour had all the functional fraud, which was hardly exciting or laughable, but fraud nonetheless (exploiting the system in the way the despised when they were all student union presidents back in the seventies), and the Liberals just weren't really trying. All politicians suffered a bad image crisis during this, but none of this is new, and it will happen again. The trouble is, the public forgets too quickly, and we don't hold these people too account. They resign, and we thinks that's enough, whereas in any other line of work, they would have to spend a day in court and perhaps even face imprisonment. If any party came out of this better than the others, it would be the Liberals, purely because they were the 'least corrupt' Not exactly a badge of honour, but the least of three evils.
Jhagiti Tyran Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2009.06.05 11:29:00 - [26] Even though labour are a shambles at the moment the torys can go to hell, anyone remember poll tax? chronic underspending on public services? and no shortage of their own sleaze and misdoings either. -
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.05 11:29:00 - [27] Naturally 'Your' is slightly ironic as the majority of people didn't vote in the first place. 'Right Honourable' is only because they're members of the Privy council (so they can see certain high-security documents). Originally by: Saai Einjhar Hope you guys get your establishment sorted out soon guys. Thanks. Could you lend us some guns it might speed things up.... ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.05 11:33:00 - [28] Edited by: Xen Gin on 05/06/2009 11:34:06 Originally by: Tallaran Kouros That's a bit racist tbh. I laugh every time someone throws that term around incorrectly. If the people like you used it, it would be racist to point out someone has a crooked nose, or a mole, those are afflictions dammit. Also, damn right we are chomping at the bit to get independence, we aren't going down with HMS England. We'll go down on our own terms.
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.05 11:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Motaka Are you on crack?The groundwork for the Northern Ireland treaty was laid by John Major. He did indeed lay the groundwork, but it was Blair's Government that saw it through to the end, particularly Mo Mowlam as Ni Secretary - she was able to bring Sinn Fein back into the talks and went to visit loyalist prisoners in the Maze to convince them that the peace process was indeed the way forward for the future. Quote: Tony Blair sold the UK down the river by allowing all these eastern europeans into the country.time to send them home. Wrong. It was Major's Government that signed the Maastricht Treaty and brought the UK into the EU and allowed ALL EU citizens the right to live and work here, just as we can go anywhere else in the EU and enjoy the same rights. It's not fair to single out the new member states that joined in the enlargement and lay the blame for all economic woes upon them. I have no beef with them and if they are taking "our" jobs, then it's either a job that a British person doesn't want to do, won't work hard enough or wants paid too much. Fair play to them I say - they are decent people and hard workers and I've never met one that I didn't like or get on with.
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.05 11:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Xen Gin Also, damn right we are chomping at the bit to get independence, we aren't going down with HMS England. We'll go down on our own terms. Good luck with that one. With every other party in Holyrood being unionist, there is no way that Salmond's Minority government is going to get his Independence Bill passed. Even if he does, I for one won't be voting for it. The majority of the oil has been squandered already and there is only so much whisky that you can sell to people. No thank you, I would much rather stay with the Barnet Formula and continue receiving more money from the Exchequer each year than we return in taxation :)
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.05 11:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Originally by: Xen Gin Also, damn right we are chomping at the bit to get independence, we aren't going down with HMS England. We'll go down on our own terms. Good luck with that one. With every other party in Holyrood being unionist, there is no way that Salmond's Minority government is going to get his Independence Bill passed. Even if he does, I for one won't be voting for it. The majority of the oil has been squandered already and there is only so much whisky that you can sell to people. No thank you, I would much rather stay with the Barnet Formula and continue receiving more money from the Exchequer each year than we return in taxation :) So it's the Scots bleeding us dry? Cut them off! Let them have their independence! Then the money saved can go towards redecorating some MP's bathroom.
sp3cial forc3s 0ne Man 0ne P3ni5 The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.06.05 11:54:00 - [32] Scotland have there own government, so why do we get scottish PM'S?? Theyve wanted to be independent and free of England for years but still the english government give Scotland an average of 10 billion Pound a year...WHY?????? Cuz the last 2 PM'S ARE SCOTTISH!!!! ITS A CONSPIRACY SET UP TO HAVE ENGLANDS PANTS DOWN!!!!!!
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.05 12:05:00 - [33] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Scotland have there own government, so why do we get scottish PM'S?? Theyve wanted to be independent and free of England for years but still the english government give Scotland an average of 10 billion Pound a year...WHY?????? Methinks you need to read up on devolution and what a "Parliament of the United Kingdom" means. Besides, England was offered the chance of regional assemblies and they were voted down at the first opportunity.
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2009.06.05 12:14:00 - [34] I think most Scots who want independance don't realise the serious consequences if it does happen. Which I don't believe it will. To the guy that quoted me. I think David Davies owuld have been better too, I think he's a great politician. However, I see your point, then again, what PM is ever popular? I know he wont deliver on some promises, but i do think he'll do a damn sight better job than New Labour are doing at the moment. Please refrain from political commentary in your signature. Navigator
Doctor Penguin Amarr Heavy Influence Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.05 13:10:00 - [35] Ugh, looks like it has been a huge swing to the Tories. Great - more static governments of sleaze and infighting.
Glarion Garnier The Scope	Posted - 2009.06.05 16:40:00 - [36] For the situation to change in Brittain you would have to get rid of the private cetral bank + most of the ppl like the roalty and representatives to get the country on a right track. _________________________________ -be vary of the men behind the curtain-
Brolly Caldari Caldari State Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.05 16:58:00 - [37] Can't believe labour are so suicidal atm, the last thing we need is a charismatic leader, look at the Blair years Cameron is a spineless, social chameleon who rides the bandwagon of flavour of the week. His opinions are those of the day and his policies will probably last that long. imho, the only party that should get the vote is green, if anyone deserves a go of screwing the world, surely it should be them I think we should keep brown, granted, it looks like he's been roung the block a few times, but he's kinda reliable and he'll get us there in the long run
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.05 18:49:00 - [38] Originally by: Brolly I think we should keep brown, granted, it looks like he's been roung the block a few times, but he's kinda reliable and he'll get us there in the long run Lol wut? ____________________
Captain Hudson Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.06.05 18:55:00 - [39] Tories 4tw. Iv found him
Motaka Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.05 19:40:00 - [40] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Quote: Tony Blair sold the UK down the river by allowing all these eastern europeans into the country.time to send them home. Wrong. It was Major's Government that signed the Maastricht Treaty and brought the UK into the EU and allowed ALL EU citizens the right to live and work here, just as we can go anywhere else in the EU and enjoy the same rights. It's not fair to single out the new member states that joined in the enlargement and lay the blame for all economic woes upon them. I have no beef with them and if they are taking "our" jobs, then it's either a job that a British person doesn't want to do, won't work hard enough or wants paid too much. Fair play to them I say - they are decent people and hard workers and I've never met one that I didn't like or get on with. Your correct,John Major did indeed sign the Maastricht Treaty,but unlike the rest of Europe,Tony Blair failed to take the seven year option as he was only expecting 13000 migrants,not the 1.5 million that turned up. I don't know where you live,but here its a nightmare.There is no work here so I'm left wondering why they are still here,oh that's right the nice benefits and the nice free house,this is unacceptable.I voted for the very first time the other day and I'm not ashamed to admit that i voted for the BNP.
Doctor Penguin Amarr Heavy Influence Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.05 19:46:00 - [41] Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 05/06/2009 19:46:24 Originally by: Motaka I don't know where you live,but here its a nightmare.There is no work here so I'm left wondering why they are still here,oh that's right the nice benefits and the nice free house,this is unacceptable.I voted for the very first time the other day and I'm not ashamed to admit that i voted for the BNP. Yay racism! (PS: "Nice benefits and nice free house" is a con. Most of the EEC folk I've met that did not find jobs headed home.) Irony: Cameron promotes family values and criticizes EEC immigration in the same speech. Why is it ironic? Most of the EEC are staunch Catholics. I know EEC immigrants - they're nice people who have taken a huge gamble in coming to this country. They deserve to be here just as much as your average UK joe does. It's the worker's own fault for being misplaced. ________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Soundwave Get out Mindstar, or I'll punch you in the ovaries.[/q
jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.06 13:04:00 - [42] this time round i voted UKIP normally vote tory ..but thats only because i was brought up in a strong labour city that likes to keep peeps on handouts and discourages people from actively getting off thier collectives and working ...preety sick and tired of our country giving ú40 million a day to europe and at least ukip have promised to attempt to sort this out .conservatives have promsed to let us have a vote on pulling out but so did labour and guess what ...we still never got it must confess im getting pretty apathetic of the whole situation tbfh.. just seems that every one of them whants to get their snouts in the trough ...****sses me big time destroy everything you touch
Tallaran Kouros Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.06 14:03:00 - [43] Originally by: Motaka I don't know where you live,but here its a nightmare. Edinburgh, where there are lots of migrants from the new member states. Quote: There is no work here so I'm left wondering why they are still here,oh that's right the nice benefits and the nice free house,this is unacceptable. It is unacceptable, or it would be if they were actually entitled to state benefits and free accommodation. They are not. Anyone coming from the new member states are NOT entitled to state benefits or housing benefit until they have been in the UK for AT LEAST TWO YEARS. I hear this myth put out over and over again, and it's simply not true AT ALL and if you don't believe me then you are more than welcome to call up the DWP yourself. Quote: I voted for the very first time the other day and I'm not ashamed to admit that i voted for the BNP. Why should you be ashamed? We live in a democracy and you are entitled to vote whichever way you see fit, and I respect that choice. I wasn't surprised to see large upswing in support for the BNP - history shows that in times of economic or political instability, support for the far left and the far right increases and those parties tap into that underlying instability. I was surprised that they got a councilor elected tho.
Cyonidicus	Posted - 2009.06.06 14:38:00 - [44] BNP is rascist bs for the short sighted
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.06 15:35:00 - [45] Originally by: jason hill this time round i voted UKIP normally vote tory ..but thats only because i was brought up in a strong labour city that likes to keep peeps on handouts and discourages people from actively getting off thier collectives and working ...preety sick and tired of our country giving ú40 million a day to europe and at least ukip have promised to attempt to sort this out .conservatives have promsed to let us have a vote on pulling out but so did labour and guess what ...we still never got it must confess im getting pretty apathetic of the whole situation tbfh.. just seems that every one of them whants to get their snouts in the trough ...**sses me big time You realise that that ú40m/day is pretty cheap for the financial, political and even military benefit we get out of being in the EU, right? Or, to put it another way: if we weren't in the EU we'd be **ed.
Nigel Sheldon Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.06 17:51:00 - [46] in before lock - i didn't think we were allowed to discuss politics...
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.06 18:24:00 - [47] Originally by: Nigel Sheldon in before lock - i didn't think we were allowed to discuss politics... We're not ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.06 18:29:00 - [48] And yet here we are. Has it dissolved into a flamewar? No. Is there excessive trolling? No. ____________________
Evthron Macyntire	Posted - 2009.06.06 20:49:00 - [49] Herein lies the failure that is democracy. You get to choose the best of the worst.
Blacksilk Caldari LEGION OF THE POTATO PEOPLE	Posted - 2009.06.06 21:45:00 - [50] Originally by: Ratchman Originally by: hedfunk I think David Cameron would be a welcome change to Brown. A general election is definatley needed. Hanging on for another year is not oging to help anyone. Doesn't look like his Cabinet is going tio allow that anyway, he's lost all control. The Tories have a charasmatic young leader. Something we need. He might not have the experience Gordon does, but the Tories have a wealth of experience in thier shadow cabinet and in thier backbenches. William Hague is a fine example, Kenneth Clarke, etc etc. We need an election. Not only is David Cameron a typical example of upper-class young conservative (complete with ruddy cheeks and boyish looks), but he has based himself on Tony Blair (amusing, seeing as New Labour took a heavy influence from the Tories). Remember how fantastic everyone felt when Tony Blair got in. Now think how people generally regard him, despite having presided over a stable period. This is how people will feel about Cameron eventually. He was selected because he was the most presentable out of the Tory contenders at the time, whereas I think their best representative was David Davies. But as always, style wins out over substance (I've never been a Tory supporter, but I can still give credit where it's due). Like most politicians, he will promise the earth and never deliver, and yet we fall for it every time. If you think Cameron's going to be a refreshing change, you're going to be disappointed. Politics requires a new style of politician if it is going to effect any real change. If anything showed up the differences between the 'old school' leanings of the parties, then the expenses scandal did. The Tories has the upper class frauds, like cleaning a moat, building a house exclusively for ducks (well, a small shed), and expenses on a massive mansion that everyone was jealous of. Labour had all the grubby social climber wannabes frauds, mostly involved in home improvement, and the Liberals had all the pathetic ones, like claiming for a packet of Hob Nobs and kitchen utensils. Tories had all the ludicrous exploits, showing up their "the rich get richer" colours (especially by renting accommodation of their own children, claiming double home allowances and employing remote family members as staff). Labour had all the functional fraud, which was hardly exciting or laughable, but fraud nonetheless (exploiting the system in the way the despised when they were all student union presidents back in the seventies), and the Liberals just weren't really trying. All politicians suffered a bad image crisis during this, but none of this is new, and it will happen again. The trouble is, the public forgets too quickly, and we don't hold these people too account. They resign, and we thinks that's enough, whereas in any other line of work, they would have to spend a day in court and perhaps even face imprisonment. If any party came out of this better than the others, it would be the Liberals, purely because they were the 'least corrupt' Not exactly a badge of honour, but the least of three evils. I couldnt agree more. I would prefer to see people on the streets in London, fetching these fu*king parasites out of their nice warm secure offices, and holding them to account over their expenditure of public money. But of course the british are too British to do that sort of thing.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.06.06 22:58:00 - [51] Originally by: ReaperOfSly And yet here we are. Has it dissolved into a flamewar? No. Is there excessive trolling? No. No, but voting for the BNP comes pretty damn close.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.06 23:16:00 - [52] Originally by: Irida Mershkov Originally by: ReaperOfSly And yet here we are. Has it dissolved into a flamewar? No. Is there excessive trolling? No. No, but voting for the BNP comes pretty damn close. That's a voter's prerogative.
jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.06 23:46:00 - [53] destroy everything you touch
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.07 06:54:00 - [54] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: Irida Mershkov Originally by: ReaperOfSly And yet here we are. Has it dissolved into a flamewar? No. Is there excessive trolling? No. No, but voting for the BNP comes pretty damn close. That's a voter's prerogative. As is holding and expressing an opinion about it.
Northern Fall Minmatar Guild Academy Guild Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.07 11:45:00 - [55] Originally by: Irida Mershkov Originally by: ReaperOfSly And yet here we are. Has it dissolved into a flamewar? No. Is there excessive trolling? No. No, but voting for the BNP comes pretty damn close. BNP = Trollin'
TimMc Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.06.07 13:24:00 - [56] I hope we have a general election soon. I expect Tories to win, and I hope that Liberal Democrats become the new second party and Labour rot away never to recover. UKIP and Green might get a few more votes, but doubt will become important.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.07 14:53:00 - [57] Originally by: TimMc I hope we have a general election soon. I expect Tories to win, and I hope that Liberal Democrats become the new second party and Labour rot away never to recover. UKIP and Green might get a few more votes, but doubt will become important. That pretty much echoes my thoughts. Sadly the Tories are at least as bad as Labour, and are really just waiting their turn to get their snouts in the trough. Lib-dems might be a bit less corrupt, but that's really only because it's been decades since they were in power. They'd make a hash of it through sheer inexperience. An ideal outcome would be a hung parliament.
jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.07 14:55:00 - [58] hung parliment wouldnt work ....constant bickering and nothing would ever be agreed on alas
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2009.06.07 18:41:00 - [59] A hung parliament would be terrible. I wouldn't mind the Lib Dems winning, although I can't see it happening, shame one of thier most influencial peers is quitting.
Captain Hudson Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.06.07 22:31:00 - [60] Well done Gordon, BNP got their 1st EU seat from what should have been yours.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.07 23:09:00 - [61] Edited by: baltec1 on 07/06/2009 23:18:50 The conservatives just won wales... It is at this point you know that labour are truely ****ed. But enought of politics time for the sky at night
Brolly Caldari Caldari State Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.08 01:27:00 - [62] Wooow, BNP go to EU and get lovely funding. Blimey, UK's fascist party get in. Nice one you apathetic voters
Deadly Serpent	Posted - 2009.06.08 02:32:00 - [63] Democracy doesn't only apply to moderate parties. It's easy to blame apathy but that ignores the underlying causes for such a vote. From the BNP site their first policy is: Quote: IMMIGRATION - time to say ENOUGH! On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question. We will abolish the æpositive discriminationÆ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of æasylum seekersÆ, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.
Elena Khan	Posted - 2009.06.08 05:07:00 - [64] In B4 this Thread gets nuked by the Mod's for discussing a prohibited subject... CCP made Smashkill cry by nerfing ghost training
Fire Watch	Posted - 2009.06.08 07:43:00 - [65] Isn't the UKIP a strong anti immigrant party?
Tallaran Kouros Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.08 09:00:00 - [66] Originally by: Deadly Serpent Democracy doesn't only apply to moderate parties. It's easy to blame apathy but that ignores the underlying causes for such a vote. From the BNP site their first policy is: Quote: We will abolish the æpositive discriminationÆ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of æasylum seekersÆ, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries. I abhor the BNP and everything that they stand for, but the problem with this is - and what no mainstream party wants to talk about - is that it's true. Putting aside EU Nationals who have the right to live and work anywhere in the EU, pretty much every asylum seeker in the UK should not be here and that's not my view, it's the official UN rules on seeking asylum. Anyone claiming asylum should do so in the "first safe country" that they reach. Given that pretty much every asylum seeker has to cross multiple stable, western-style democracies in Western Europe before they get to the UK, we hardly represent the "first safe country" in which to claim asylum. This is why the UK was so annoyed at France over the Sangatte immigration camp a few years ago. the French didn't really care as they knew they were all wanting to go to the UK and once they crossed the channel, they were all problem and not France's :) Now personally I'm not all that bothered - if someone is willing to work hard, pay tax and be a productive member of society then I couldn't care less what their name is, the colour of their skin or where they come from, it matters little to me but such underlying anger is exactly what far right parties tap into in times of economic or political instability.
Reven Cordelle Caldari Yamainu-Mirai Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.06.08 09:28:00 - [67] BNP can has 2 seats nao! UKIP are 2nd, which is nice. Conservatives are first, typically - because they have more media coverage. People will vote Conservs because they've been made to look like the Knight in Shining Armor vs Labour. Either way - anything but Labour! What disturbs me is that Labour got that high up. Are people that ignorant?
Tallaran Kouros Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.08 10:06:00 - [68] Originally by: Reven Cordelle Either way - anything but Labour! What disturbs me is that Labour got that high up. Are people that ignorant? There is a PLP meeting at Westminister tonight which is expected to be extremely rocky, possibly followed by a no-confidence motion in the Commons during the week. I'm half expecting a general election within the next few weeks.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.08 10:15:00 - [69] Originally by: Reven Cordelle Either way - anything but Labour! What disturbs me is that Labour got that high up. Are people that ignorant? That is exactly what I said when labour won the north east again. I mean honestly, how much worse must it get before people up here will vote any different
LordSwift Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.08 11:48:00 - [70] Edited by: LordSwift on 08/06/2009 11:50:21 Originally by: Deadly Serpent Democracy doesn't only apply to moderate parties. It's easy to blame apathy but that ignores the underlying causes for such a vote. From the BNP site their first policy is: Quote: IMMIGRATION - time to say ENOUGH! On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question. We will abolish the æpositive discriminationÆ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of æasylum seekersÆ, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries. I feel so dirty but i generally agree with that policy except the BOLDED part. It will be voluntary until they see fit to make it mandatory and force them all out the country. Well its the way i see it going anyway. I am not against people with genuine skills and reasons to come and work here. But when you see 75% of fast food, take away staff are all foreigners who barely speak english something has to be wrong. But maybe thats just me. Also i would love to see figures for the percentage of british born unemployed compared to the amount of foreign workers. But maybe we are lazy and are glad to give the crappy mcdonalds/kfc jobs to immigrients
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.08 12:07:00 - [71] Originally by: LordSwift I am not against people with genuine skills and reasons to come and work here. But when you see 75% of fast food, take away staff are all foreigners who barely speak english something has to be wrong. But maybe thats just me. Why? Would you rather have that job yourself? How much English do you need to know to understand "Want Big Mac NAO"? (You might guess I don't eat fast food much) Anyway, I have nothing against immigration. Indian and Chinese food = yum. Polish girls = hawt. I don't really give two hoots about anything else. ____________________
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.08 12:14:00 - [72] You know it's bad when my Indian friends say that it's getting to foreign even for them.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.08 12:17:00 - [73] Edited by: Blane Xero on 08/06/2009 12:17:20 When you need a translator just to talk to half your neighbourhood, you realise all your dreams for living in a foreign country were taken slightly too literally. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.08 12:31:00 - [74] You could always make the effort to learn a few words of their language. It might guilt them into making more of an effort in learning yours. It's a brilliant piece of hypocrisy. Britons go on holiday and the entire time we're in a foreign country, the majority of us never bother to utter a word in the local tongue. And yet we ***** and moan when a small minority of immigrants "can't be bothered" to learn English, or just have too thick an accent. ____________________
Stitcher Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.06.08 12:37:00 - [75] What the hell does it matter whether or not white British is going to end up a minority? people are people, it's not like being as celtic as a harp gives me any particular privileges. White skin is the football club T-shirt of skin tones. All it does is define you as part of a conceptual group. It's worse than a club T-shirt actually, because you can at least choose which club you support. Now, am I saying I'd rather be some other ethnicity? No, I'm not. Ethnicity does. Not. Matter. Or at least, it wouldn't in an enlightened culture. Bring it on, I say. Let immigrants in (assuming they can bring something to the country that benefits those of us already living here). Bring down the genetic walls. Let England do what it has ALWAYS done and be at the forefront of enlightened societal evolution. The BNP can take a big raised middle finger from me: their way is division, conflict, tribalism. By all means, have your tribes and groups and subcultures. But make those divisions intellectual and freely chosen, not a product of genetic providence and geographic accident. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.08 12:38:00 - [76] If i ever had any intentions of personally moving to another country on any term longer than two or three weeks i would gladly learn the local tongue, sadly as it is i have not once left the UK (Or even Scotland, i'm such a sheltered person!) and have no intentions of doing so for some time. As it is right now i know a touch of German and that's about it. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.08 12:57:00 - [77] Edited by: ReaperOfSly on 08/06/2009 13:04:14 Originally by: Blane Xero If i ever had any intentions of personally moving to another country on any term longer than two or three weeks i would gladly learn the local tongue, sadly as it is i have not once left the UK (Or even Scotland, i'm such a sheltered person!) and have no intentions of doing so for some time. As it is right now i know a touch of German and that's about it. Surely if the fact that your neighbours speak in a different language is a hindrance to you, it would be beneficial for you to learn just a few words of their language? Just hello, goodbye, please, thank you, yes and no would be enough for a start. You never know - they might actually be willing to talk to you if you show you're willing to talk to them. Edit: damn, now I sound like some shiny eyed idealist.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.08 13:04:00 - [78] Originally by: ReaperOfSly You could always make the effort to learn a few words of their language. It might guilt them into making more of an effort in learning yours. It's a brilliant piece of hypocrisy. Britons go on holiday and the entire time we're in a foreign country, the majority of us never bother to utter a word in the local tongue. And yet we ***** and moan when a small minority of immigrants "can't be bothered" to learn English, or just have too thick an accent. If I move to live into another country I would learn their language not make that country learn mine. There was a great story a while ago about a post office that refused to serve people that did not speak english. The post master was an immigrant himself who signed up for english classes the moment he could and has the Union Jack pinned up on his wall. The guy is more british than some of the natives.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.08 13:16:00 - [79] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: ReaperOfSly You could always make the effort to learn a few words of their language. It might guilt them into making more of an effort in learning yours. It's a brilliant piece of hypocrisy. Britons go on holiday and the entire time we're in a foreign country, the majority of us never bother to utter a word in the local tongue. And yet we ***** and moan when a small minority of immigrants "can't be bothered" to learn English, or just have too thick an accent. If I move to live into another country I would learn their language not make that country learn mine. There was a great story a while ago about a post office that refused to serve people that did not speak english. The post master was an immigrant himself who signed up for english classes the moment he could and has the Union Jack pinned up on his wall. The guy is more british than some of the natives. Yes, I heard about that story. And I agree, people who move to this country should make some effort to speak English. And the vast majority of them do. There are always a few though, so there's no way around it. Either meet them part-way or resign yourself to never understanding them. Personally, I just like learning words from other languages just for the sheer hell of it. I think I shall try learning how to say "My friend will pay" in 20 languages. ____________________
Haldane IV Einstein's Dreams	Posted - 2009.06.08 14:58:00 - [80] Originally by: Brolly Wooow, BNP go to EU and get lovely funding. Blimey, UK's fascist party get in. Nice one you apathetic voters This Puts me in mind of that quote about the only thing needed to allow evil to triumph is for good men do nothing I was a bit less depressed when I heard BNP actually got less votes this time, than last, tho
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.06.08 15:08:00 - [81] Originally by: Haldane IV Originally by: Brolly Wooow, BNP go to EU and get lovely funding. Blimey, UK's fascist party get in. Nice one you apathetic voters This Puts me in mind of that quote about the only thing needed to allow evil to triumph is for good men do nothing I was a bit less depressed when I heard BNP actually got less votes this time, than last, tho The fact that BNP got a seat reflects the worries people have. It shows the government that immigration is kind of a big deal right now. Couple that with the fact that the "big" parties have been recently tarnished by the MP expenses scandal, and you get more people voting for fringe parties like the BNP. I think they're mad, but there you go. ____________________
Haldane IV Einstein's Dreams	Posted - 2009.06.08 15:16:00 - [82] edit - Ive just looked at the individual results (as printed in Times online) and as far as I can see, in all but a couple od constituencies, BNP have actually got more votes this time. They did however get less in the constituency where there 2nd MEP (Brons) got in. The remark in the Times is therefore, to my mind, a bit misleading if you read it a certain way. Doesn't detract from the point being made tho, don't let 'em in by default.
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.06.08 15:18:00 - [83] Originally by: LordSwift I am not against people with genuine skills and reasons to come and work here. But when you see 75% of fast food, take away staff are all foreigners who barely speak english something has to be wrong. Nope, nothing is wrong. I can tell you with 100% certainty that you CANNOT get a work visa for a job in McDonalds. All the "foreigners" you see in McDonalds are students who are studying in the UK, and paying the full international fee rate to their University. Their student visa allows them to work up to 16 hours a week in order to help make ends meet, or have a bit of cash to go out and enjoy themselves. The fact that these are "British jobs" that no "British people" want to do, is very telling. Why does nobody here want to flip burgers for ú5 an hour? Because it's a crap job, that's why.
Akima Tucker Minmatar Universal Defence Industries	Posted - 2009.06.08 17:55:00 - [84] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Nope, nothing is wrong. I can tell you with 100% certainty that you CANNOT get a work visa for a job in McDonalds. All the "foreigners" you see in McDonalds are students who are studying in the UK, and paying the full international fee rate to their University. Their student visa allows them to work up to 16 hours a week in order to help make ends meet, or have a bit of cash to go out and enjoy themselves. The fact that these are "British jobs" that no "British people" want to do, is very telling. Why does nobody here want to flip burgers for ú5 an hour? Because it's a crap job, that's why.[/quote I would disagree with allthe internationals working in McD's are students, I would agree a fair proportion are. However, its something of a double edged sword - you're right not wants to flip burgers for minimum wage - but surely if the internationals were not so keen to work for minimum wage, the restaurants would be forced to pay more and this might be more of an attraction to native workers and McDonaldÆs for example saw a fair rise in profits last year Linky I do think we Brits have got into a situation of resting on our laurels - we sit back and still think we are something special because of who we are and the unskilled or semi-skilled workforce is taking the brunt of the impact of non-native workers. To give you an example - I use two gangs for the ground-works for my engineering projects - one is native (a Scot and an Englishman) the other from eastern Europe (not Polish btw), these teams are almost identical in age, the tools & equipment and the pay they get. At the end of the day my eastern European team will have completed about 30-40% more work than the British team. Now the Brits arenÆt lazy, they wouldnÆt still be working for me if they were, nor is the quality lower from the non-natives, in some cases its better (not always). If this is a situation that is repeated across the country û this is going to lead to more jobless Brits, which will only push more and more people toward parties like the BNP, who support a removal. If someone can legally work here û you have to employ people on their merits, not their race/origin (we are not in 60Æs America or Apartheid South Africa). Now if this forces the native workforce to take a long hard look at themselves, then nothing will (but I strongly support training for people who are unemployed to better themselves, rather than just sit at home, complaining who the country has gone to the dogs). However, I cannot blame the BNP for winning seats in Europe. I didnÆt vote, so who is more at fault?
Lonzo Kincaid Duty.	Posted - 2009.06.08 19:51:00 - [85] WTB: Civil War
ReaperOfSly Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.06.08 20:40:00 - [86] Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid WTB: Civil War We have one brewing, should be ready for delivery by October. ____________________
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.06.08 20:51:00 - [87] Maybe if there was a party that isn't one of the big three (they've had their day if we're being honest) and not some stupid anti-EU independance party (sorry UKIP, BNP) I might actually vote. I hate UK politics. - Contagious -
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.08 21:20:00 - [88] Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 07/06/2009 23:18:50 The conservatives just won wales...
uzumoreru	Posted - 2009.06.08 22:03:00 - [89] So, how many of those cabinet ministers jumped before they were pushed? Certainly the Europe minister, Brown wanted to move her somewhere else, but she wanted to stay where she was, so she took her ball home (Childish sow). There were Blears and Smith, both of whom are varying levels of incompetent, and both who were in at the deep end due to expenses. I see this less as a part rebellion, and more as taking the opportunity to cleave the deadwood. Sure Brown may have the charisma of a loaf of bread, but a lot of this beating on him is overstated at best, and at worst, deliberate misinterpretation of information on the part of the media. Anyone in power as he is with the fallout from recession combined with the expenses row is going to come under fire, but is the alternative any better? (Ignoring their rhetoric because to be honest bad times for the country always suits the challenging parties; 'We wouldn't be in this mess if we were in power' type sentiment, but do any of them have comprehensive plans to stabilize the economy and reform the expenses system? I doubt it.)
Constantine Arcanum IMPERIAL SENATE Initiative Associates	Posted - 2009.06.08 22:39:00 - [90] Originally by: Motaka I'm not ashamed to admit that i voted for the BNP. it's not a shame you voted for the BNP, don't worry. It's a ****ing disgrace!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.08 23:13:00 - [91] On the topic of Asylum-seekers: My grandfather came to britain just after world war 1. He was East European, either Hungarian or Austrian. He was orphaned; all that was left of his familiy was his little brother. My grandfather was 12, his brother was 7, and they walked over a thousand miles through postwar Europe to get to Dover, where they both stowed away on a ship to get to Britain. When they arrived, they asked a policeman for help, and he took them to an orphanage. The orphanage gave them food and clothes. They decided that it would "help the boys integrate more easily" if they were split up and given to different families. So that they would forget their past and become "good english boys", I suppose. My grandfather never saw his brother again. He died a few years before I was born. Anyway, I just wanted to remind you all that "asylum seekers" are people too. We used to call them refugees, incidentally. Oh btw Anton brought his brother to Britain because everyone knew that the British were the fairest people in the world.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.08 23:14:00 - [92] So yeah anyway I guess you can infer my opinion of the BNP without me having to use words which would probably get me a forum ban.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.08 23:17:00 - [93] Originally by: uzumoreru So, how many of those cabinet ministers jumped before they were pushed? Certainly the Europe minister, Brown wanted to move her somewhere else, but she wanted to stay where she was, so she took her ball home (Childish sow). There were Blears and Smith, both of whom are varying levels of incompetent, and both who were in at the deep end due to expenses. I see this less as a part rebellion, and more as taking the opportunity to cleave the deadwood. Sure Brown may have the charisma of a loaf of bread, but a lot of this beating on him is overstated at best, and at worst, deliberate misinterpretation of information on the part of the media. Anyone in power as he is with the fallout from recession combined with the expenses row is going to come under fire, but is the alternative any better? (Ignoring their rhetoric because to be honest bad times for the country always suits the challenging parties; 'We wouldn't be in this mess if we were in power' type sentiment, but do any of them have comprehensive plans to stabilize the economy and reform the expenses system? I doubt it.) Given Nu Labor's enthusiastic dismantling of what traces of civil liberty and right to privacy we had left on the 10th of September 2001, my sympathy is, shall we say, somewhat lukewarm.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.06.08 23:59:00 - [94] Originally by: Constantine Arcanum Originally by: Motaka I'm not ashamed to admit that i voted for the BNP. it's not a shame you voted for the BNP, don't worry. It's a ****ing disgrace! To be honest, anyone who does vote for the BNP is either incredibly naive, ignorant or is just stupid/racist.
jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.09 00:50:00 - [95] im not gonna get into the why and the where fore why peeps across the spectrum voted why they did as this imo is a stupid idea . but the geneva convention states that if your a refugee you claim asylum at your 1st port of call . our current gov has abused this system by allowing an underclass to the detriment of overyone entitled live and work in this country thats why people voted for the minority parties .. no other country in the western world has such a generous benefits systerm such as ours ....from the cradle to the grave. the tax payer will pick up the tab and we wonder why we have these problems. maybes (and its a about time imo) that we started looking at our selves as a society and say to our selves ...enough is enough get rid of housing benefit single parent allowances and others quangos and other cheap gimmick policies and let the normal joe in the street stand up for him self .yes it would be a system shock ...but imo ...about sodding time ...then we have no need for radical parties that promise solutions but provide nothing but discord destroy everything you touch
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.09 01:44:00 - [96] Re: ReaperOfSly's comment towards me. I live in an area that is thankfully not yet swamped (Rural Town/Village). We have a couple of foreigners who run Corner-Shops (Convenience stores of sorts). I've had some lengthy conversations with them about it and they feel themselves that if you are in a country that uses a different mother-tongue than your own, then you should learn it. It is the individual seeking asylum / refuge that needs to learn the language of the locals. Not the locals who need to learn ANOTHER new language every time someone from another country comes around. If every British born person was learning Hebrew/Hindu/Polish/Russian/LanguageX every time they encountered a language barrier, That would indicate something is extremely wrong. I'd be all for learning foreign languages, if i had time. But thats another story.
Fire Watch	Posted - 2009.06.09 03:35:00 - [97] Socialists and leftists parties across Europe are in decline. Sadly the decline is not as dramatic as the communists a generation ago, but it is still marked. Europe is heading the right direction.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.09 12:07:00 - [98] Originally by: Fire Watch Socialists and leftists parties across Europe are in decline. Sadly the decline is not as dramatic as the communists a generation ago, but it is still marked. Europe is heading the right direction. yes as soon as we're all governed like Italy, all will be well
uzumoreru	Posted - 2009.06.09 15:48:00 - [99] Originally by: Malcanis Given Nu Labor's enthusiastic dismantling of what traces of civil liberty and right to privacy we had left on the 10th of September 2001, my sympathy is, shall we say, somewhat lukewarm. These were the brainchild (more like braingremlin amirite? ) of Smith were they not? Now she is gone, through jumping or pushing, who cares?
Atnal Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.06.09 16:02:00 - [100] Gordon Ramsey for PM. Maybe since nothing's getting done is because there's too much yelling and not enough listening in parliament.
JeremyCricket	Posted - 2009.06.09 19:26:00 - [101] Originally by: Irida Mershkov Originally by: Constantine Arcanum Originally by: Motaka I'm not ashamed to admit that i voted for the BNP. it's not a shame you voted for the BNP, don't worry. It's a ****ing disgrace! To be honest, anyone who does vote for the BNP is either incredibly naive, ignorant or is just stupid/racist. May I first make it clear that I am not pro BNP, they are not only rascist but socialist (they are not right wing at all, read their manifesto), to things that I cannot stand. But in the last few days there have been two things that have annoyed me about the reaction to the BNP's first MEPs. Firstly, the constant refussl by politicians (and the quoted poster) to either believe or admit that the people who voted for the BNP were doing so in full understanding of what the BNP stands for, assuming they were duped into it by Nick Griffins charm offensive recently or they were simply protest voting. Secondly, the recent protest by 'Unite Against Fascism', which prevented Nick Griffin from giving a press conference on College Green, was entirely undemocratic and a precedent that must not be followed. Regardless of the BNP and Nick Griffin's views, he is a democratically elected representative of the people who voted for him, and above all in this country free speech is allowed, much though the recent laws on inciting racial hatred have diminished this sacred law. A spokesman (woman) for the above anti-fascist group was on Eddie Mair's PM n Radio 4 this afternoon, and I almost crashed my car I was so incensed by the stupidity and arrogance of an unelected nobody claiming to represent 'the vast majority of the country' attempting to utterly steam-roller the views of a minority, however horrific those might be. Her point that 'the vast majority of the country does not support fascism' is well backed up by the fact that the BNP only got 6% of the vote, yet this group still feels the need to deny a democratically elected official from voicing the legitimate feelings of UK voters. I believe that people who try to crush unpalatable views in the name of democracy are a much greater threat to this country than any extremists. If the vast majority of people do not believe in the BNP's views then what is the harm in letting them speak? Rant over If you want to listen to the interview I mentioned and bask in the sheer wrong-headedness of it then you can probably get it on iPlayer or podcast.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.06.09 21:49:00 - [102] Originally by: JeremyCricket May I first make it clear that I am not pro BNP, they are not only rascist but socialist (they are not right wing at all, read their manifesto), to things that I cannot stand. But in the last few days there have been two things that have annoyed me about the reaction to the BNP's first MEPs. A spokesman (woman) for the above anti-fascist group was on Eddie Mair's PM n Radio 4 this afternoon, and I almost crashed my car I was so incensed by the stupidity and arrogance of an unelected nobody claiming to represent 'the vast majority of the country' attempting to utterly steam-roller the views of a minority, however horrific those might be. Her point that 'the vast majority of the country does not support fascism' is well backed up by the fact that the BNP only got 6% of the vote, yet this group still feels the need to deny a democratically elected official from voicing the legitimate feelings of UK voters. I believe that people who try to crush unpalatable views in the name of democracy are a much greater threat to this country than any extremists. If the vast majority of people do not believe in the BNP's views then what is the harm in letting them speak? Rant over If you want to listen to the interview I mentioned and bask in the sheer wrong-headedness of it then you can probably get it on iPlayer or podcast. I think I may check out the interview, thanks for mentioning it. Granted, it's a hypocritical way of doing things by for example, forcibly dissolving the BNP for example, or trying to de-validate(?) votes against them. But let's be honest here, this is a group of people happy to raise racial tensions, whether you are born in Britain or have legitimately moved here they are quite happy to say "** you, you're not white or British, get the ** out." And forcibily remove you, no matter of your nationality, out of the country. Myself? I find that extremely offensive, of African descent, my grandfather (both of them, one was white from a Welsh family) fought for the Allies during World War II, and after which settled down in the United Kingdom and have married etc. My family has never been part of any crime groups, or even committed any crimes as such, never been to court with the charges against us, so why the hell, throughout my life? paid my taxes, respected my community, and never done anything wrong, be forcibly removed to the poorest stretches of Eastern Africa to fend for myself? To put it shortly, **** you Nick Griffin. Now, back to my point, it is a hypocritical way of dealing with a party, such as you mentioned, however, allowing a party like this to remain has the possibility of stirring up more racial tensions, which are not needed. Granted, immigration is a problem, but the BNP hinges 'immigrants' as 'anyone foreign or not white'. It's a double edged blade in either case, can we really call ourselves a free nation if we remove a party like this? but can we really say that we stand for anti-racism and equality whilst letting a party like this freely speak what they believe, racism, holocaust denial, white supremacy and social elitism (honestly, being genetically superior if you're rich?). It's just, wrong. On both sides, although from one thing I have noticed is that the more light that is shined on the BNP in the public light, the faster they tend to wither and die before trying to come back again. It's a murky, sour topic.
CommmanderInChief Comply Or Die	Posted - 2009.06.10 10:46:00 - [103] Its really strange ppl complain about BNP getting in, its the bloody voters that let them in in the first place! Anyway Brown complete and utter waste of space, have always been a Labour voter, not anymore..
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.10 14:12:00 - [104] Edited by: Xen Gin on 10/06/2009 14:12:15 Edited by: Xen Gin on 10/06/2009 14:11:58 Originally by: JeremyCricket Stuff While I agree, I think we should all reserve the right to throw eggs and rotten fruit at any politicians we don't like, and those who are corrupt.
Anyura	Posted - 2009.06.10 14:18:00 - [105] Originally by: Xen Gin Edited by: Xen Gin on 10/06/2009 14:12:15 Edited by: Xen Gin on 10/06/2009 14:11:58 Originally by: JeremyCricket Stuff While I agree, I think we should all reserve the right to throw eggs and rotten fruit at any politicians we don't like, and those who are corrupt. One man, one rotten egg - a true democracy.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.06.10 18:29:00 - [106] Originally by: ReaperOfSly You could always make the effort to learn a few words of their language. It might guilt them into making more of an effort in learning yours. It's a brilliant piece of hypocrisy. Britons go on holiday and the entire time we're in a foreign country, the majority of us never bother to utter a word in the local tongue. And yet we ***** and moan when a small minority of immigrants "can't be bothered" to learn English, or just have too thick an accent. Difference is that the people going on Holiday are not permanently immigrating.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.06.10 18:33:00 - [107] Originally by: Malcanis On the topic of Asylum-seekers: My grandfather came to britain just after world war 1. He was East European, either Hungarian or Austrian. He was orphaned; all that was left of his familiy was his little brother. My grandfather was 12, his brother was 7, and they walked over a thousand miles through postwar Europe to get to Dover, where they both stowed away on a ship to get to Britain. When they arrived, they asked a policeman for help, and he took them to an orphanage. The orphanage gave them food and clothes. They decided that it would "help the boys integrate more easily" if they were split up and given to different families. So that they would forget their past and become "good english boys", I suppose. My grandfather never saw his brother again. He died a few years before I was born. Anyway, I just wanted to remind you all that "asylum seekers" are people too. We used to call them refugees, incidentally. Oh btw Anton brought his brother to Britain because everyone knew that the British were the fairest people in the world. I hate to be the Devil's advocate, but maybe that was the best thing for him. Yes, he never did see his brother again, but I bet that his brother always remembered him. I guess I wouldn't look at this as a sad story, but a story of absolute triumph over absolutely horrible circumstances.
ReaperOfSly Gallente 3P1C F41L	Posted - 2009.06.10 19:08:00 - [108] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Malcanis On the topic of Asylum-seekers: My grandfather came to britain just after world war 1. He was East European, either Hungarian or Austrian. He was orphaned; all that was left of his familiy was his little brother. My grandfather was 12, his brother was 7, and they walked over a thousand miles through postwar Europe to get to Dover, where they both stowed away on a ship to get to Britain. When they arrived, they asked a policeman for help, and he took them to an orphanage. The orphanage gave them food and clothes. They decided that it would "help the boys integrate more easily" if they were split up and given to different families. So that they would forget their past and become "good english boys", I suppose. My grandfather never saw his brother again. He died a few years before I was born. Anyway, I just wanted to remind you all that "asylum seekers" are people too. We used to call them refugees, incidentally. Oh btw Anton brought his brother to Britain because everyone knew that the British were the fairest people in the world. I hate to be the Devil's advocate, but maybe that was the best thing for him. Yes, he never did see his brother again, but I bet that his brother always remembered him. I guess I wouldn't look at this as a sad story, but a story of absolute triumph over absolutely horrible circumstances. Wut? I don't see any triumph here. ____________________
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.10 21:43:00 - [109] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Maybe if there was a party that isn't one of the big three (they've had their day if we're being honest) and not some stupid anti-EU independance party (sorry UKIP, BNP) I might actually vote. I hate UK politics. TBH it's this attitude that let the BNP get 2 seats in the EU Parliament. Even if you don't like any of the parties, it's still best to vote for the 'least bad' party. I personally voted green since they seem to be the least racist/exploiting/warmongering of the parties. Just remember, not voting is the equivalent to giving about 1/10 of your vote to the BNP/Your least favourite party. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Thorliaron Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:05:00 - [110] Edited by: Thorliaron on 10/06/2009 22:06:27 Originally by: JeremyCricket Edited by: JeremyCricket on 09/06/2009 21:59:05 Originally by: Irida Mershkov Originally by: Constantine Arcanum Originally by: Motaka I'm not ashamed to admit that i voted for the BNP. it's not a shame you voted for the BNP, don't worry. It's a **ing disgrace! To be honest, anyone who does vote for the BNP is either incredibly naive, ignorant or is just stupid/racist. May I first make it clear that I am not pro BNP, they are not only racist but socialist (they are not right wing at all, read their manifesto), two things that I cannot stand. But in the last few days there have been two things that have annoyed me about the reaction to the BNP's first MEPs. Firstly, the constant refusal by politicians (and the quoted poster) to either believe or admit that the people who voted for the BNP were doing so in full understanding of what the BNP stands for, instead assuming they were duped into it by Nick Griffins charm offensive recently or they were simply protest voting. Secondly, the recent protest by 'Unite Against Fascism', which prevented Nick Griffin from giving a press conference on College Green, was entirely undemocratic and a precedent that must not be followed. Regardless of the BNP and Nick Griffin's views, he is a democratically elected representative of the people who voted for him, and above all in this country free speech is allowed, much though the recent laws on inciting racial hatred have diminished this sacred law. A spokesman for the above anti-fascist group was on Eddie Mair's PM on Radio 4 this afternoon, and I almost crashed my car I was so incensed by the stupidity and arrogance of an unelected nobody claiming to represent 'the vast majority of the country', attempting to utterly steam-roller the views of a minority, however horrific those might be. Her point that 'the vast majority of the country does not support fascism' is well backed up by the fact that the BNP only got 6% of the vote, yet this group still feels the need to prevent a democratically elected official from voicing the legitimate feelings of UK voters. I believe that people who try to crush unpalatable views in the name of democracy are a much greater threat to this country than any extremists. If the vast majority of people do not believe in the BNP's views then what is the harm in letting them speak? Rant over If you want to listen to the interview I mentioned and bask in the sheer wrong-headedness of it then you can probably get it on iPlayer or podcast. It's their right to throw eggs and shout loud words at people like nick or any other bloke in govenment. Freedom of speech, democracy, god, the queen and all that **
SoC Darkord Minmatar Silentium Mortalitas Mortal Destruction	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:49:00 - [111] Originally by: rValdez5987 Hailing from the USA 0/ Sounds like you chaps are having some trouble, but no worries.. just make sure you don't get the British equivalent of George Bush in office and you'll make it through. Good luck! Atleast bush was elected, right now we have a PM that we didnt elect and we dont want, but he wont step down :/ Dictatorship anyone?
Elena Khan	Posted - 2009.06.11 00:03:00 - [112] I miss CCP Mitnal... he would not have pu55yfooted about with this thread... (as his replacement has)
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.11 00:17:00 - [113] Originally by: Elena Khan I miss CCP Mitnal... he would not have pu55yfooted about with this thread... (as his replacement has) Thread isn't a flame fest. And most of us share the same ultimate opinion anyway; British Government is failing harder than an Honor-Tanked Revelation.
Jaroslav Hasek	Posted - 2009.06.11 01:19:00 - [114] Edited by: Jaroslav Hasek on 11/06/2009 01:19:51 Originally by: Haldane IV I was a bit less depressed when I heard BNP actually got less votes this time, than last, tho Eh.... no, not quite. BNP- 800k last time http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/euro_uk/html/front.stm BNP- 950k this time http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_999999.stm
Jaroslav Hasek	Posted - 2009.06.11 01:31:00 - [115] Originally by: jason hill no other country in the western world has such a generous benefits systerm such as ours ....from the cradle to the grave. the tax payer will pick up the tab and we wonder why we have these problems. maybes (and its a about time imo) that we started looking at our selves as a society and say to our selves ...enough is enough get rid of housing benefit single parent allowances and others quangos and other cheap gimmick policies and let the normal joe in the street stand up for him self .yes it would be a system shock ...but imo ...about sodding time ...then we have no need for radical parties that promise solutions but provide nothing but discord Excuse me, you don't know me, but I'm concerned. Are you feeling OK? We're in the midst of the greatest crisis of capitalism in almost a century, and it is obvious to anyone with half a braincell that the ruling class (bankers, investors, industrialist, politicians of all parties) have taken this country for such a ride that it feels like we've woken up in the middle of a field, trousers round ankles, throbbing headache, unable to walk properly. Unchecked capitalism, lack of regulation (or toothless regulators) and a wild eyed frenzy of profit over consequences has cost us hundreds of billions, perhapsn even trillions, of pounds. And you, being aware of this situation, choose to target single mums and the unemployed? Please seek help.
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.11 02:00:00 - [116] Originally by: Jaroslav Hasek Edited by: Jaroslav Hasek on 11/06/2009 01:19:51 Originally by: Haldane IV I was a bit less depressed when I heard BNP actually got less votes this time, than last, tho Eh.... no, not quite. BNP- 800k last time http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/euro_uk/html/front.stm BNP- 950k this time http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_999999.stm Yeah, but weren't the two areas the got elected MEPs in, the count was lower, and only got in because Labour voters didn't turn up. It was something like 5+ more people voting for one of the other four would have resulted in no BNP MEPs.
Malinde	Posted - 2009.06.11 05:05:00 - [117] Originally by: Xen Gin Originally by: Jaroslav Hasek Edited by: Jaroslav Hasek on 11/06/2009 01:19:51 Originally by: Haldane IV I was a bit less depressed when I heard BNP actually got less votes this time, than last, tho Eh.... no, not quite. BNP- 800k last time http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/euro_uk/html/front.stm BNP- 950k this time http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_999999.stm Yeah, but weren't the two areas the got elected MEPs in, the count was lower, and only got in because Labour voters didn't turn up. It was something like 5+ more people voting for one of the other four would have resulted in no BNP MEPs. This, voter apathy in the areas of the 2 elected MEP's caused it unfortunatly, although the increase in votes for them is worrying. Living in London for the last 2 years having come from the very rural southwest the "multi-cultural" aspect of our capital city is something that makes me proud, and to see people vote to indiscriminately "kick these people out of the UK" is such a shame! I get the feeling people haven't truly read up the BNP's actual policies and don't realise that they want to remove anyone who isn't a white skinned natural britian, which means they even want to immigrants from the ol' british empire! they are Raciest in the worst way. And as for the thinking that stopping immigration will improve the job market are having a laugh, there is a reason foreign labor is more popular and its not just because its cheaper - the majority of immigrant workers i have met just work harder and don't spend all their time complaining about their "entitlements".
Jaroslav Hasek	Posted - 2009.06.11 07:58:00 - [118] Originally by: Xen Gin Yeah, but weren't the two areas the got elected MEPs in, the count was lower, and only got in because Labour voters didn't turn up. It was something like 5+ more people voting for one of the other four would have resulted in no BNP MEPs. Well it depends of how you want to interpret the results. Nationwide turnout was down from 38% to 34% yet the total BNP vote increased by about 18%. In the North West turnout was down from 40% to 32% and the Conservative and Lib Dem total votes fell by about 80k each, Labour's by about 200k yet the BNP and UKIP had their total votes stay pretty much static - UKIP up 10k BNP down 2k and in Yorkshire and Humber its very much the same story. One thing I think this tells us is that there is a danger of normalisation of the BNP vote. What do I mean by this? Well, in 2004 it could easily have been argued that the large BNP vote was an aberration, voters were angry with Labour and wanted to send a message that things must change. Things haven't changed and now there is a chance that soon people wont be voting BNP to give Labour a bloody nose, soon the BNP will be a legitimate option for some people. Why is this happening to the BNP? well, you could probably write a dissertation on this, but for me its quite simply the abandonment by Labour of its traditional voter. Some people might be lazy and say the people who vote BNP are just knuckle headed racists but thats no where near the truth. Times are very hard for working class people in Britain. When I was growing up my dad worked in a factory making grinding wheels, a skilled job, reasonably well paid. He was able to pay the mortgage on a 3 bed semi detached house and keep his three kids in food and clothes and the annual holiday to somwhere dreadful like Skegness. Could a working man do that today? well a lot of skilled manufacturing jobs just aren't there any more, my dad's factory used to employ hundreds in my hometown. It isn't even open anymore, closed about 5 years ago. Wages in real terms have gone down over the years with the explosion of the property market even with the same jobs available I doubt very much my dad could afford to pay the mortgage on a 3 bed semi at todays prices and to go with this Labour have done nothing about increasing provision of social housing. So most of the well paying skilled jobs have gone abroad. And then that leaves us with the elephant in the room - immigration from Eastern Europe. I'm sick to death of hearing people say 'they work hard and never complain'. A very large number of Poles (using Poles for short, but it covers all migrants from the new EU members) are young and decide to come here for a few years to earn enough money to set themselves up back home. Their expenses are low, often living in shared housing, and the reason they don't complain is because they are being paid a hell of a lot more than they would get back home and know it wont be long term. If someone offered me the chance to go and live in Switzerland for 3 years doing a menial job but being paid ú15 an hour damn right I wouldn't complain either. So the working class, traditional Labour voter, is being asked to compete for the few remaining jobs on an unfair playing field. You might say 'so what? tough **' and thats your right, but there are some very real concerns amongst the working class in Britain and they have been ignored by their traditional party and they know they would get no sympathy from Tories, Lib Dems or UKIP. I don't remember the BNP mentioning race much at all this election, all I heard was the very simple mantra 'protecting British jobs' which very much struck a chord all over the country. Of course in reality Griffin and his ** loving mate Brons couldnt give a ** about the plight of the British working class, but at least they are pretending to which is a lot more than Labour are doing.
Jaroslav Hasek	Posted - 2009.06.11 08:01:00 - [119] ****** = Hi.tler
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.06.11 08:33:00 - [120] Originally by: Jaroslav Hasek Nationwide turnout was down from 38% to 34% yet the total BNP vote increased by about 18%. In pure, raw numbers yes but as a share of the total votes cast, it was down.
Jaroslav Hasek	Posted - 2009.06.11 08:45:00 - [121] Edited by: Jaroslav Hasek on 11/06/2009 08:47:08 Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Originally by: Jaroslav Hasek Nationwide turnout was down from 38% to 34% yet the total BNP vote increased by about 18%. In pure, raw numbers yes but as a share of the total votes cast, it was down. Not quite sure how you come to that conclusion: 2004 38% turnout 16.8m votes cast 808k votes for BNP = 4.8% of those who voted voted for the BNP 2009 34% turnout 15.6m votes cast 943k votes for BNP = 6% of those who voted voted for the BNP So nationwide the total number of votes cast for the BNP rose and the share of the votes cast for then BNP rose.
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.11 11:36:00 - [122] Originally by: Jaroslav Hasek Edited by: Jaroslav Hasek on 11/06/2009 08:47:08 Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Originally by: Jaroslav Hasek Nationwide turnout was down from 38% to 34% yet the total BNP vote increased by about 18%. In pure, raw numbers yes but as a share of the total votes cast, it was down. Not quite sure how you come to that conclusion: 2004 38% turnout 16.8m votes cast 808k votes for BNP = 4.8% of those who voted voted for the BNP 2009 34% turnout 15.6m votes cast 943k votes for BNP = 6% of those who voted voted for the BNP So nationwide the total number of votes cast for the BNP rose and the share of the votes cast for then BNP rose. You got a source there? I'm just curious.
Jaroslav Hasek	Posted - 2009.06.11 11:42:00 - [123] Yeah, the two BBC pages I linked to previously: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/euro_uk/html/front.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_999999.stm I did the maths by rounding so there maybe a couple of tenths of one percent difference.
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.11 12:33:00 - [124] Originally by: Jaroslav Hasek Yeah, the two BBC pages I linked to previously: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/euro_uk/html/front.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_999999.stm I did the maths by rounding so there maybe a couple of tenths of one percent difference. Thank you.
jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.11 14:53:00 - [125] Jaroslav your credability went out of the window when you decided to post with an alt . destroy everything you touch
Jaroslav Hasek	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:45:00 - [126] Wonderful. Shouldn't nurse be feeding you your dinner right about now?

CCP Navigator C C P	Posted - 2009.06.11 18:25:00 - [127] How did I miss this? Political discussions are not permitted in OOPE. Locked. Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Games, Create a petition on a forum issue.


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