EVE Search - Retribution

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Retribution

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Chasghar	Posted - 2009.06.14 18:13:00 - [1] Edited by: Chasghar on 14/06/2009 18:13:56 I have wondered for a while that why does amarr have so bad assault frigates? Vengeance can do more damage with pulse lasers than with missiles and why does retribution only have 1 med slot? Can't you take one high-slot off and put it to med so we amarrians can also use assault frigates?
Cpt Constantinus Celestial Janissaries	Posted - 2009.06.14 18:14:00 - [2] Retri is a fine assault frig. Leave the tackling to your gangmates and concentrate on melting your enemies.
Lucian Mortimer	Posted - 2009.06.14 18:57:00 - [3] Having one mid slot only cripples your solo ability. The Retribution works great in gangs, and I would hate to lose the utility high slot. As for the Vengeance, it's been said a million times - fix rockets and you fix the Vengeance.
Chasghar	Posted - 2009.06.14 19:31:00 - [4] Would be nice to solo with the retribution
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate Onslaught.	Posted - 2009.06.14 19:40:00 - [5] Edited by: Cambarus on 14/06/2009 19:40:21 STFU with the complaints about not being able to solo with the retri. Contrary to popular belief a ship CAN suck at solo pvp while still being a good pvp ship (a la caldari recons) and amarr already have plenty of pwnage solo ships. EDIT: Rockets do need some love though, make them like torps in that they deal blaster damage at farther range but require a web/painter to be 100% effective
abrasive soap Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.14 19:57:00 - [6] a frigate with less midslots than its tech 1 counterpart is pretty bad (oh hi there retribution)
General Trajan Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.06.14 20:11:00 - [7] retribution is fine for it's intended role. but the vengeance is a problem for me. it should never be bonused with the use rockets (the malediction has that already), but it should be bonused towards the use of standard launchers using light missiles as it should IMO. that would make the vengeance a "real" assault frig then!
abrasive soap Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.14 20:20:00 - [8] Originally by: General Trajan retribution is fine for it's intended role. but the vengeance is a problem for me. it should never be bonused with the use rockets (the malediction has that already), but it should be bonused towards the use of standard launchers using light missiles as it should IMO. that would make the vengeance a "real" assault frig then! that makes 0 sense; the khanid line is close range, high damage, "unguided" (but really guided) missiles
General Trajan Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.06.14 20:47:00 - [9] Originally by: abrasive soap Originally by: General Trajan retribution is fine for it's intended role. but the vengeance is a problem for me. it should never be bonused with the use rockets (the malediction has that already), but it should be bonused towards the use of standard launchers using light missiles as it should IMO. that would make the vengeance a "real" assault frig then! that makes 0 sense; the khanid line is close range, high damage, "unguided" (but really guided) missiles just because CCP rights a "story about a races philosophy in tactics" doesn't mean they actually back it up with how they bonus those ships! like the damnation for instance. velocity bonus for heavy missiles as well as HAMs. or CCP giving a boost to javelin rockets!
Dodgy Past	Posted - 2009.06.14 21:00:00 - [10] Originally by: abrasive soap a frigate with less midslots than its tech 1 counterpart is pretty bad (oh hi there retribution) People who complain about the slot layout of the retribution have no friends.

Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2009.06.14 21:17:00 - [11] Cpt Constantinus is that a Haiku?
abrasive soap Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.14 23:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Dodgy Past Originally by: abrasive soap a frigate with less midslots than its tech 1 counterpart is pretty bad (oh hi there retribution) People who complain about the slot layout of the retribution have no friends. When I want to bring dps I bring a zealot when I want to tackle I bring a frigate.
Lisento Slaven The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.06.15 01:56:00 - [13] Retribution is good. When you're in frig gangs, having a retribution in the gang that can hit with pulse out to 22km and track interceptors...is good...
Chasghar	Posted - 2009.06.15 12:55:00 - [14] Maybe you guys like more to blob someone but I get more satisfaction when I solo someone and there will be an actual fight
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2009.06.15 13:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Chasghar Maybe you guys like more to blob someone but I get more satisfaction when I solo someone and there will be an actual fight Then don't fly a ship with one mid slot? As many people have said, it's a great ship for bringing dps into a frigate/assaultfrigate gang. Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate Onslaught.	Posted - 2009.06.15 13:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Chasghar Maybe you guys like more to blob someone but I get more satisfaction when I solo someone and there will be an actual fight You need ONE other guy to tackle, in what way is that a blob? Anyway, if you want to solo that's your decision, but not all ships are built for that purpose, and given that the amarr already have a bunch of ridiculously good solo boats I'm going to say stfu and quit your whining, it's even more irritating than when the caldari complain about not being good at solo pvp
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.15 13:15:00 - [17] Originally by: General Trajan just because CCP rights a "story about a races philosophy in tactics" doesn't mean they actually back it up with how they bonus those ships! like the damnation for instance. velocity bonus for heavy missiles as well as HAMs. or CCP giving a boost to javelin rockets! The concept of the Vengeance is fine. The only problem with it is that rockets happen to be a pretty poor weapon system right now for various reasons; thus the Vengeance suffers from this indirectly. As stated above - fix rockets, and you fix the Vengeance.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Destructive Influence KenZoku	Posted - 2009.06.15 16:12:00 - [18] I thought solo pvp was a myth Retri is one of the best AFs, sure its suited for gang work, but this is an mmo. . . The Vengence is broken because Rockets are broken (as stated) and no, if Amarr get standard missles, then Caldari will cry.
UMEE Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:34:00 - [19] retribution is baaaaaad
WhiteGhostBear Furs of New Eden	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:48:00 - [20] Originally by: Chasghar Edited by: Chasghar on 14/06/2009 18:13:56 Vengeance can do more damage with pulse lasers than with missiles You're doing it wrong. Fit blasters or autocannons. Sad, but true.

NeoNeTiC LOCKDOWN. Cult of War	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:54:00 - [21] Originally by: UMEE retribution is baaaaaad I agree. To the guy who said "just leave tackling to everyone else and do DPS" - why not get a damn cruiser for the same cost (or maybe less) which outperforms the Retri when it comes to DPS?
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Cpt Constantinus Retri is a fine assault frig. Leave the tackling to your gangmates and concentrate on melting your enemies. There is the problem, a T1 cruiser would let you do this cheaper and more effectively :)
General Trajan Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.06.15 19:11:00 - [23] Originally by: Gartel Reiman Originally by: General Trajan just because CCP rights a "story about a races philosophy in tactics" doesn't mean they actually back it up with how they bonus those ships! like the damnation for instance. velocity bonus for heavy missiles as well as HAMs. or CCP giving a boost to javelin rockets! The concept of the Vengeance is fine. The only problem with it is that rockets happen to be a pretty poor weapon system right now for various reasons; thus the Vengeance suffers from this indirectly. As stated above - fix rockets, and you fix the Vengeance. well i beg to differ on this bro. i think there should be a progression in weapon systems from the malediction to the vengeance. and when comparing the hitting power of the retribution with the vengeance (as they are both assualt frigs we all know) the vengeance is totally ****-poor by comparrison. giving the vengeance lights would close the gap to a better degree and making the vengeance feel more like an assualt frig. with rockets the vengeance don't feel like any kind of assualt to me! but then again if CCP does boost rockets that would make it respectable for the vengeance then i can't complain i guess!
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2009.06.15 19:12:00 - [24] Originally by: General Trajan retribution is fine for it's intended role. but the vengeance is a problem for me. it should never be bonused with the use rockets (the malediction has that already), but it should be bonused towards the use of standard launchers using light missiles as it should IMO. that would make the vengeance a "real" assault frig then! Hawk?
General Trajan Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.06.15 19:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: General Trajan retribution is fine for it's intended role. but the vengeance is a problem for me. it should never be bonused with the use rockets (the malediction has that already), but it should be bonused towards the use of standard launchers using light missiles as it should IMO. that would make the vengeance a "real" assault frig then! Hawk? oh hell yeah! i will be putting my new caldari alt in one of those soon.
Lithalnas Amarr The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2009.06.15 19:24:00 - [26] [Retribution, Farmer's Daughter (CNR killer)] Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer N-Type Thermic Hardener I N-Type Kinetic Hardener I Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Warp Scrambler II Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S [empty high slot] Energy Burst Aerator I Energy Collision Accelerator I Cheap and effective, the signature is so small it tanks ravens easily, kills drones fairly easily due to high resists and is cap stable... for the half hour it takes to kill someone. And I have yet to have a farmer shoot EM missiles at me. -------------
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.06.15 19:30:00 - [27] Originally by: Dodgy Past Originally by: abrasive soap a frigate with less midslots than its tech 1 counterpart is pretty bad (oh hi there retribution) People who complain about the slot layout of the retribution have no friends. Not everyone wants to roam around in 30 man gangs all day and AS's should be a viable solo frig. TBH you would have better luck soloing in the Punisher than in the Retribution. I trained this alt as Amarr for the BS's (just love that Abaddon) but I have become a bit sad with the lack of solo ships. On my Minmatar I can fly the Wolf or the Jag and they are great for Soloing. With Amarr about the only good T2 solo frig are the Inti's and they lack the ability to solo kill anything of size fast enough to keep the blob from landing on you. I'm not big on nerfing or boosting ships, but it would be great if each race had a viable solo T2 AS. Minmatar have the Wolf. Caldari have the Harpy Gallente have the Ishkur All of which can take on other ships solo and are able to tackle. With Amarr you have to fly an Inti if you want to be able to solo tackle, but then you deal out much less DPS.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.06.15 19:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Lithalnas [Retribution, Farmer's Daughter (CNR killer)] Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer N-Type Thermic Hardener I N-Type Kinetic Hardener I Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Warp Scrambler II Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S [empty high slot] Energy Burst Aerator I Energy Collision Accelerator I Cheap and effective, the signature is so small it tanks ravens easily, kills drones fairly easily due to high resists and is cap stable... for the half hour it takes to kill someone. And I have yet to have a farmer shoot EM missiles at me. Yes, but you put yourself in a do or die situation. If you can't kill him or can't do it before the blob arrives. Well you are dead, because you have no ability to disengage and GTFO. The Amarr Coercer is the same way.. You get one mid slot, so you can either fit your speed mod or tackle. Meaning you have to give up the ability to escape or have to hope to kill the target in one or two shots, before he can warp away.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Cpt Constantinus Retri is a fine assault frig. Leave the tackling to your gangmates and concentrate on melting your enemies. this, I quite like it ----------------------------------- ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Kingwood Amarr Yawn Corp Obscure Syndicate	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:34:00 - [30] Why would people want to use a Retri for gang DPS instead of a, say, Omen? AFs suck in general, tbh.

Lucian Mortimer	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:38:00 - [31] Originally by: Mutnin Originally by: Dodgy Past Originally by: abrasive soap a frigate with less midslots than its tech 1 counterpart is pretty bad (oh hi there retribution) People who complain about the slot layout of the retribution have no friends. Not everyone wants to roam around in 30 man gangs all day and AS's should be a viable solo frig. TBH you would have better luck soloing in the Punisher than in the Retribution. I trained this alt as Amarr for the BS's (just love that Abaddon) but I have become a bit sad with the lack of solo ships. On my Minmatar I can fly the Wolf or the Jag and they are great for Soloing. With Amarr about the only good T2 solo frig are the Inti's and they lack the ability to solo kill anything of size fast enough to keep the blob from landing on you. I'm not big on nerfing or boosting ships, but it would be great if each race had a viable solo T2 AS. Minmatar have the Wolf. Caldari have the Harpy Gallente have the Ishkur All of which can take on other ships solo and are able to tackle. With Amarr you have to fly an Inti if you want to be able to solo tackle, but then you deal out much less DPS. See, I'm very comfortable with the idea that Amarr ships, for the most part, are gang/fleet ships. If you just have to solo, It isn't too difficult to cross-train at the frigate level. Also, imo, Minmatar battleships aren't nearly as good as Amarr BSs. I would much rather have three great battleships than 1 viable solo AF - tradeoffs happen.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:42:00 - [32] Originally by: abrasive soap Originally by: Dodgy Past Originally by: abrasive soap a frigate with less midslots than its tech 1 counterpart is pretty bad (oh hi there retribution) People who complain about the slot layout of the retribution have no friends. When I want to bring dps I bring a zealot when I want to tackle I bring a frigate. I kill zealots in my retribution.
Kingwood Amarr Yawn Corp Obscure Syndicate	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:45:00 - [33] Originally by: baltec1 I kill zealots in my retribution. Solo? I call lie. Show me proof please. Can't wait to see that killmail.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:54:00 - [34] Edited by: baltec1 on 15/06/2009 21:05:37 Originally by: Kingwood Originally by: baltec1 I kill zealots in my retribution. Solo? I call lie. Show me proof please. Can't wait to see that killmail. no not solo. In gangs I get the inti to tackle and then I get in close and rip the zealot apart while its guns flail harmlessly. Zealot is a good ship but it cannot do the job of a retribution. It might have a DPS advantage but as my untanked sentinel shows, DPS is pointless if you cannot hit your target.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.15 21:19:00 - [35] Originally by: General Trajan Originally by: Gartel Reiman The concept of the Vengeance is fine. The only problem with it is that rockets happen to be a pretty poor weapon system right now for various reasons; thus the Vengeance suffers from this indirectly. As stated above - fix rockets, and you fix the Vengeance. well i beg to differ on this bro. i think there should be a progression in weapon systems from the malediction to the vengeance. and when comparing the hitting power of the retribution with the vengeance (as they are both assualt frigs we all know) the vengeance is totally ***-poor by comparrison. giving the vengeance lights would close the gap to a better degree and making the vengeance feel more like an assualt frig. The difference between the Malediction and Vengeance is a fourth hardpoint (33% extra DPS) and the usual extra CPU and PG - this is theoretically more than the difference between the Crusader and Retribution (fifth hardpoint means 20% extra damage), though I realise that the Retri's extra PG lets one fit bigger turrets for more actual DPS difference. If anything your statements confirm my assessment of the poor state of rockets - rockets are the close range, high damage* version of frigate sized missiles, and standard missiles do less damage. Requesting that the Vengeance's bonus be changed to standard missiles shows that you actually consider lights to be harder hitting; a damning verdict on rockets indeed.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.06.15 22:00:00 - [36] The Retribution is easily the worst AF, and one of the worst ships in the game. It's an utterly worthless ship, far below the level of even comedy setups like the BattleBadger. Why? Simple: *one mid slot*. The job of a frigate is to tackle, end of discussion. If you can not tackle (meaning at minimum, MWD + point), you fail in your role, and need to bring a different ship. The Retribution's slight advantage in frigate killing is nowhere near enough to offset its complete failure in its primary role. PS: for those of you who think the Retribution is good because of superior tracking: you're wrong. Not only can other AFs do almost as much damage but without the crippling lack of tackle, but since we're talking about gang combat (lol @ solo in a Retribution), HACs and BCs will have no problem ripping apart frigates. Since you can only orbit one ship at a time, once the opposing FC decides your frigate needs to die, you'll be dead in seconds.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.15 22:12:00 - [37] Once again Merin flies in giving an opinion of a ship they dont fly and insisting the people who do fly it dont know what they are talking about because EFT said it only has one mid Naturaly I will get blasted and told that I have no idea what I am talking about (dispite having flown these ships for a good year now and killed everything from an ibis to battleships in it).
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.06.15 22:28:00 - [38] Originally by: baltec1 Once again Merin flies in giving an opinion of a ship they dont fly and insisting the people who do fly it dont know what they are talking about because EFT said it only has one mid Funny, but last time I checked, I have all the skills to fly a Retribution. The only reason I don't is because the ship *sucks. And my complaints have nothing to do with EFT, they come from actually understanding what the point of a frigate is. In fact, EFT would be more* favorable to the Retribution, not less, as its dps numbers are actually pretty decent, and its utter failures are not apparent until you fly it in-game. Quote: Naturaly I will get blasted and told that I have no idea what I am talking about (dispite having flown these ships for a good year now and killed everything from an ibis to battleships in it). You've killed everything from an Ibis to a battleship *in gangs*. Obviously if the rest of your gang is good enough, it doesn't matter if you bring a terrible ship like the Retribution, you'll still get on the killmail. But that doesn't make the Retribution a good ship, and it doesn't mean that you wouldn't have done even better if you'd brought a better ship.
Lucian Mortimer	Posted - 2009.06.15 22:45:00 - [39] Originally by: Merin Ryskin The Retribution is easily the worst AF, and one of the worst ships in the game. It's an utterly worthless ship, far below the level of even comedy setups like the BattleBadger. Why? Simple: *one mid slot*. The job of a frigate is to tackle, end of discussion. If you can not tackle (meaning at minimum, MWD + point), you fail in your role, and need to bring a different ship. The Retribution's slight advantage in frigate killing is nowhere near enough to offset its complete failure in its primary role. PS: for those of you who think the Retribution is good because of superior tracking: you're wrong. Not only can other AFs do almost as much damage but without the crippling lack of tackle, but since we're talking about gang combat (lol @ solo in a Retribution), HACs and BCs will have no problem ripping apart frigates. Since you can only orbit one ship at a time, once the opposing FC decides your frigate needs to die, you'll be dead in seconds. You're dumb, Merin. Why? Simple: You have a primitive black and white view of the world, and fail to grasp that things actually work in subtle shades. SOME frigates are designed to tackle, not all - we have interceptors for a reason. Also, Sentinels and Anathemas have other roles besides tackling (hard to believe, I know). You're also dumb for fitting MWDs on your AFs, no wonder you have such a low impression of their survivability.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.06.15 22:58:00 - [40] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 15/06/2009 23:01:01 Originally by: Lucian Mortimer SOME frigates are designed to tackle, not all - we have interceptors for a reason. Some frigates are designed to do other things, but that doesn't mean that they succeed in their intended role. In fact, all of them fail horribly. Quote: Also, Sentinels The Sentinel sucks. Get an Arbitrator. Quote: and Anathemas have other roles besides tackling (hard to believe, I know). The Anathema is not a combat ship, and is therefore irrelevant to this discussion. Quote: You're also dumb for fitting MWDs on your AFs, no wonder you have such a low impression of their survivability. Sorry, but you're the one who is dumb. Please think for a second. An afterburner provides excellent damage reduction, assuming two conditions are met: 1) You are able to immediately get into a tight orbit around your target. AND 2) There are no other targets shooting at you. In gang combat (the Retribution can not solo, so solo scenarios are irrelevant), if you are getting shot at, it will be by multiple targets. Since you can only hold a close orbit against one target at a time, every OTHER ship in the gang will be nice and far away from you, so your transversal is near-zero, and you die in seconds. In solo scenarios, you will very often fail on the first point. A MWD cruiser is faster than you, which means it can easily drop your transversal to zero, and as I've taught quite a few unfortunate AB AF pilots, a low-transversal AF's life expectancy against cruiser guns is under 15 seconds. Finally, the role of a frigate is to tackle, which means getting into range ASAP to keep the target from warping off. Not only does an AB make your ship much slower than a MWD, but if you want any chance of survival with an AB, you're forced to also fit a short-range scrambler. The result is that compared to a proper MWD frigate, the target you are trying to tackle has much more time to escape, so you fail at your job. As for the idea that I have a low opinion of AFs, that's just stupid. I like AFs, when properly fit. My only problem with them is that the recent T2 price increases have made it hard to justify paying for one. This is why the Retribution is laughable as a "dps" ship. Not only is its dps much lower than a proper HAC/BC, but for survival in gangs, you need EHP, not just high speed, and a frigate of any kind can not get enough EHP to do the job properly. -----------

Grarr Dexx Amarr Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.06.15 23:22:00 - [41] I have a retribution. I use it to do level 2 missions. It has no other use. If I wanted to kill interceptors without tackling them, I can do it a lot cheaper with a Coercer. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
loldongs III Derp Industries	Posted - 2009.06.16 01:19:00 - [42] Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 15/06/2009 21:05:37 Originally by: Kingwood Originally by: baltec1 I kill zealots in my retribution. Solo? I call lie. Show me proof please. Can't wait to see that killmail. no not solo. In gangs I get the inti to tackle and then I get in close and rip the zealot apart while its guns flail harmlessly. Zealot is a good ship but it cannot do the job of a retribution. It might have a DPS advantage but as my untanked sentinel shows, DPS is pointless if you cannot hit your target. Couldn't you just do this by yourself in a zealot?
Johnny cruz	Posted - 2009.06.16 05:19:00 - [43] Originally by: Grarr Dexx I have a retribution. I use it to do level 2 missions. It has no other use. If I wanted to kill interceptors without tackling them, I can do it a lot cheaper with a Coercer. this. All arguement really ends here. Tank you say? Merin has correctly pointed out that tank means nothing in gang engagements. Only place a retribution has is that it aligns faster than a coercer, and thus can participate in frigate gangs (which are in general kind of fail if the enemy gang has a clue). Finally, all that said, when it comes to DPS + Amarr + frigate, retribution is "useful" in that if you have to be in a frig, and you're in a gang with other frigs, you may aswell take a retribution if you don't want to fly a sader.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.16 07:55:00 - [44] Originally by: Merin Ryskin The job of a frigate is to tackle, end of discussion... ...since we're talking about gang combat (lol @ solo in a Retribution), HACs and BCs will have no problem ripping apart frigates. Since you can only orbit one ship at a time, once the opposing FC decides your frigate needs to die, you'll be dead in seconds. Surely these two quotes are self-contradictory? The Retribution arguably has one of the toughest tanks of a frigate, and so if it can be popped essentially at will by the enemy gang, then any other frigate can (since other frigates can't orbit more than one ship either). And if any frigate dies in seconds at the whim of the opposing FC, what's the point in having them as tacklers? They'll be dead before the targets, who can then just warp out. Unless by "tackler" you meant they get and hold a suicide point for 5 seconds until battlecruisers can take over - in which case you have an exceptionally narrow view of frigates' uses in combat.
kera3	Posted - 2009.06.16 08:24:00 - [45] The last time I checked this game was an MMOG. In case you all have no idea what that means it stands for massivly MULTIPLAYER online game. The second 'm' is the important one, see when a game is multiplayer you work WITH other people. Contrary to popular belief, not all frigates are good at soloing. This is as it should be. Everything shouldn't be good at everything. Some, in this case the Retribution, need to work WITH other ships. Paired with an interceptor, it can make a truly terrifying tag team. Stop being so blinkered, and black and white.
Phantom Slave JUDGE DREAD Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.16 08:36:00 - [46] Merin, not every frigate is designed to tackle. If you go out in a frig gang, yes you want some that do tackle, but the others you want DPS and the Retribution gives plenty of it. I personally like my sniper setup on my retribution, lets me hit out to 43km while moving at 2300 m/s cap stable. The ship can choose its engagement range because of speed, and in a cruiser/hac gang I'm unlikely to be primaried, and even if I am I'm well outside most cruiser ranges (short range guns anyway). So exactly why does the retribution suck when in its proper role?
Dray Caldari Culture Breach	Posted - 2009.06.16 08:57:00 - [47] In the past I've posted my sadness at a lack of a defined use for an assault frigate, with recent changes they've become more "useful"?, the bottom line for me is this, if another ship can do the job better for less then by default it's useless in its role because its been overtaken in every department except cost. This maybe an overly simple argument but the underlying reasoning is 100% sound. So the question is whatever AF you're using, is there another superior option that's cheaper? This argument also ignores the fact people like flying ships for different reasons other than cost effectiveness, so basically if your happy keep doing that, or if your an isk ***** do what's cheapest.
Anyura	Posted - 2009.06.16 09:04:00 - [48] I mainly use my Retri for ratting, where it performs well. For PvP, I can see where it would be lacking, having only recently come to appreciate the finer points of webs and scrambles.
Kyrghiz	Posted - 2009.06.16 09:20:00 - [49] Ah, nice, threads like this remind me of the good old times i spent in an infamous mmorpg with the name that should not be spoken in Eve, where people complained why their class couldnt stealth, stunlock, purge, heal, buff, do insane damage, cripple, resurrect others, ankh and control a pet at the same time. :D
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.06.16 09:23:00 - [50] Originally by: Phantom Slave Merin, not every frigate is designed to tackle. If you go out in a frig gang, yes you want some that do tackle, but the others you want DPS and the Retribution gives plenty of it. I personally like my sniper setup on my retribution, lets me hit out to 43km while moving at 2300 m/s cap stable. The ship can choose its engagement range because of speed, and in a cruiser/hac gang I'm unlikely to be primaried, and even if I am I'm well outside most cruiser ranges (short range guns anyway). So exactly why does the retribution suck when in its proper role? Three reasons: 1) Limiting yourself to nothing but frigates is an artificial limitation whose sole purpose is to justify bringing bad ships to a fight. A HAC/recon gang (with frigate support as needed) will give you almost as much mobility, but with vastly better performance in a fight. 2) Bringing a Retribution to anything BUT a frigate gang is a waste of a pilot. There's a reason you won't be primaried: *because your ships sucks. We've been over this a million times with the passive Drake, bringing a bad ship just means you get saved for last because you're not contributing anything to the fight. 3) Other frigates can do the dps role almost as well, but can actually do the primary job of a frigate: tackle. The Retribution's small advantage in damage output comes nowhere near to justifying its crippling flaws. And as for not every frigate being designed for tackle, I already answered that point above: the fact that a ship was designed to do something else does not mean that it succeeds* in doing it. With the exception of the non-combat covops frigates, all of these "non-tackle" frigates are complete failures. -----------

Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.06.16 09:23:00 - [51] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 16/06/2009 09:32:39 Originally by: Gartel Reiman Surely these two quotes are self-contradictory? The Retribution arguably has one of the toughest tanks of a frigate, and so if it can be popped essentially at will by the enemy gang, then any other frigate can (since other frigates can't orbit more than one ship either). And if any frigate dies in seconds at the whim of the opposing FC, what's the point in having them as tacklers? They'll be dead before the targets, who can then just warp out. You are correct that any frigate will die in seconds if called primary. The supposed "advantage" of an AB speed/sig tank disappears completely once you're dealing with anything outside of a 1v1. However, we have to consider the cases where the frigate is NOT called primary. Here, a non-Retribution AF can fill the vital role of fast tackle. The Retribution, on the other hand, is simply outclassed by the larger ships. In the time before a primary call and inevitable death, a cruiser/HAC/BC/BB will contribute FAR more to the fight, and, due to the far greater HP buffer, might actually survive a bit longer. Quote: Unless by "tackler" you meant they get and hold a suicide point for 5 seconds until battlecruisers can take over - in which case you have an exceptionally narrow view of frigates' uses in combat. It's a narrow view because a frigate's ROLE is narrow. The only reason to take a frigate over a bigger ship is if you need frigate speed and lock time to get point on a target ASAP. In all other circumstances, a HAC, BC or BB is by far the better choice. -----------
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.06.16 09:25:00 - [52] Originally by: kera3 The last time I checked this game was an MMOG. In case you all have no idea what that means it stands for massivly MULTIPLAYER online game. The second 'm' is the important one, see when a game is multiplayer you work WITH other people. Contrary to popular belief, not all frigates are good at soloing. This is as it should be. Everything shouldn't be good at everything. Some, in this case the Retribution, need to work WITH other ships. Paired with an interceptor, it can make a truly terrifying tag team. Stop being so blinkered, and black and white. One problem: having a group doesn't make the Retribution good. Since you now have other ships to tackle, there is no longer any need to bring a frigate. Replace the Retribution with a Zealot, and suddenly you have a FAR more terrifying combination. It's just fine to have ships that aren't good for solo. For example, the Falcon is an awesome ship, but absolutely worthless for solo PvP. The difference is the Retribution isn't good at *anything*. -----------
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.16 09:34:00 - [53] It might suck, because I managed to kill one solo with my pvp Hulk once. Then again, if you think the Ret sucks then go fly a Hawk sometime. Solo or ganged it matters not, the suckitude will astonish you.
Kingwood Amarr Yawn Corp Obscure Syndicate	Posted - 2009.06.16 09:34:00 - [54] AFs in general don't do anything better that a T1 cruiser wouldn't be able to. They still lack a clearly defined role, are easily kited when fitted with an AB (and can't run from a Cruiser or BC), and if you want to use an MWD you might as well take an Interceptor. They're only good when they're in Gangs. And then compare that Frig gang to a T1 Cruiser gang. AFs still need a buff of some sort to give them a role.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.06.16 09:41:00 - [55] Originally by: Soporo It might suck, because I managed to kill one solo with my pvp Hulk once. Then again, if you think the Ret sucks then go fly a Hawk sometime. Solo or ganged it matters not, the suckitude will astonish you. Oh, the Hawk is bad, but at least it has enough mids to fit MWD + point. Not that I'd actually fly one willingly (or use it for anything other than reprocessing to build a Harpy), of course, but if I was forced at gunpoint to fly a Hawk or Retribution, I'd take the marginally less terrible Hawk. -----------
rodensteiner	Posted - 2009.06.16 12:52:00 - [56] I used to think the Retribution was terrible because of the 1 mid slot, but not so much anymore. As has been stated, it works very well in gang PVP, which 99% of the time, is what you're going to be doing. As well as being able to put out quite respectable DPS (over 200, no problem) it can also tank extremely well. I've had one Retribution that I could use for 0.0 ratting. My current Retribution is setup for wormholes. 3 T2 pulses, Scan probe launcher, Salvager, AB, and tank. Takes a while to pop stuff in Wormholes, but you can run the repper for a looong time.
Traderboz	Posted - 2009.06.16 13:15:00 - [57] I'm with Merin on this one. 200 dps is nice for a frigate I guess, but it has zero EWAR modules and contributes nothing other than 200 dps. It contributes nothing other than that 200 dps to the gang. That's pretty terrible, considering any well-fit T1 cruiser will easily outdamage that (sometimes by 200-300%), will have EWAR modules, will have more EHP, and will have drones for dealing with enemy frigates. If you want something that can go with a small gang and pop enemy frigates, just use a suicide destroyer (which will have EWAR modules). Better yet, use a Sabre, which will shred frigates with AC's and provide bubbles as well. Or use a good AF. Lots of options, and they all provide much more EWAR/tackle/usefulness than Retri. Even the Hawk can fit out tank and play heavy tackle, which makes it much more useful to a gang than a Retri.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.16 14:51:00 - [58] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs There is the problem, a T1 cruiser would let you do this [damage dealing] cheaper and more effectively :) Originally by: NeoNeTiC why not get a damn cruiser for the same cost (or maybe less) which outperforms the Retri when it comes to DPS? Originally by: Kingwood Why would people want to use a Retri for gang DPS instead of a, say, Omen? Originally by: Kingwood They're only good when they're in Gangs. And then compare that Frig gang to a T1 Cruiser gang. Originally by: Traderboz any well-fit T1 cruiser will easily outdamage that (sometimes by 200-300%) I'm curious - I know that the statement above is rolled out a lot about AFs, but why does "get a T1 cruiser instead" argument not scale up to the next level, that HACs are useless because you should just "get a T1 battleship instead", with more damage and tank for less cost?
Psiri	Posted - 2009.06.16 15:02:00 - [59] Originally by: Gartel Reiman I'm curious - I know that the statement above is rolled out a lot about AFs, but why does "get a T1 cruiser instead" argument not scale up to the next level, that HACs are useless because you should just "get a T1 battleship instead", with more damage and tank for less cost? Because T1 Cruisers aren't that much slower than AF's and are alot more well rounded than battleships.
Traderboz	Posted - 2009.06.16 15:06:00 - [60] It doesn't scale up to the very largest ships because of align time and overall speed. Roaming gangs tend to stick with mostly cruiser hulls and smaller because you're able to move quickly through hostile territory. The slower your gang is to align and warp off, the greater the chance that you get tackled and lose a ship or two (or more) to the pursuing gang. Some battlecruisers can be nano'd to align quickly (<3 Cane), but generally the plated fits are too slow to really be considered for roaming. So, the real question is what role does the Retri fill that other similar size/speed ships can't do better. The answer, of course, is nothing, but it does a lot of things worse (gogo 1 mid slot) than the other ships.

baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.16 15:22:00 - [61] For those of you who think t1 cruisers are better. I consistantly out damage t1 fitted cruisers in gang fights and I can tank quite a deal better in most situations. There have been quite a few times I have been primaried by multiple t2 cruisers and managed to either get away or tank them long enough for me and my gang to kill them. I can wipe out intercepters so fast a point isnt even needed and I can take out ship classes much larger than me without breaking a sweat. I know this because I do this in game, if you want to continue beliving that the retri is useless in gangs then continue to do so as it will mean I will continue to be underestimated as an easy kill, same as my little sentinel.
Dray Caldari Culture Breach	Posted - 2009.06.16 15:46:00 - [62] Edited by: Dray on 16/06/2009 15:47:35 Originally by: baltec1 For those of you who think t1 cruisers are better. I consistantly out damage t1 fitted cruisers in gang fights and I can tank quite a deal better in most situations. There have been quite a few times I have been primaried by multiple t2 cruisers and managed to either get away or tank them long enough for me and my gang to kill them. I can wipe out intercepters so fast a point isnt even needed and I can take out ship classes much larger than me without breaking a sweat. I know this because I do this in game, if you want to continue beliving that the retri is useless in gangs then continue to do so as it will mean I will continue to be underestimated as an easy kill, same as my little sentinel. To be brutally honest your t1 cruiser pilot are crap if you out damage them, in fact reading your reply suggests that most of the people your fighting are crap, as for tanking multiple t2 cruisers, they must've been barely able to fly them. The retri is useless because other ships do the same job for less. I can pick thru the many fights I've been in where a sub par ship has done well, but when your fighting people who know what they're doing things like you describe just don't happen. When the HAC's first appeared I really wanted a good auto-cannon set-up for the muninn, I made one which wasn't anything special, its not the role of the ship but it was what I wanted, I killed an apoc with it, does that make the auto-muninn good, not really what it means is some people shouldn't fly apocs if they dont know how to fit them. This maxim is the single most important thing to remember about ships, fittings, and alleged performance.
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2009.06.16 15:53:00 - [63] Omen: [Omen, Glass Cannon] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Co-Processor I Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Warrior II x3 329 dps, 1500m/s, 24km point, 10.6k ehp. Far better then the Retr. as I see it. Sure, it might not be able to speed tank, or really tank much at all, but at least you bring something useful that can deal decent dps and keep a point out. It is also a lot cheaper.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:00:00 - [64] Originally by: Dray To be brutally honest your t1 cruiser pilot are crap if you out damage them, in fact reading your reply suggests that most of the people your fighting are crap, as for tanking multiple t2 cruisers, they must've been barely able to fly them. The retri is useless because other ships do the same job for less. I can pick thru the many fights I've been in where a sub par ship has done well, but when your fighting people who know what they're doing things like you describe just don't happen. When the HAC's first appeared I really wanted a good auto-cannon set-up for the muninn, I made one which wasn't anything special, its not the role of the ship but it was what I wanted, I killed an apoc with it, does that make the auto-muninn good, not really what it means is some people shouldn't fly apocs if they dont know how to fit them. This maxim is the single most important thing to remember about ships, fittings, and alleged performance. You are welcome to come up the venal any time you wish to meet these "crap" pilots, I am sure they will love to meet you. Honestly you are like the people back on SWG who insisted that the tie bomber was crap and anyone I killed was a crap pilot. That is, untill they found their intercepter with a destroyed reactor and my bomber slowly floating around in front of their ****pit. I wonder why it is that people have such a hard time beliving that other people can have fun and be effective in a ship they dont like...
SuiJuris	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:26:00 - [65] Edited by: SuiJuris on 16/06/2009 16:29:52 I have flown the retribution and the coercer quite a bit in the last few weeks, its true the coercer can put out more DPS to the same ranges but if you fit the coercer for DPS it is absolutely paper thin. The retribution sports double the hitpoints and half the sig radius of a destroyer, I range fit mine with beams and use aurora, puts out 100 DPS to 46km and roughly 186 DPS if I go for point blank stuff. The reason its useful? Because in FW the Amarr militia is outnumbered VERY handily in the US timezone and frigate wolfpacks are one of the few ways we can blow through gatecamps shadow the minnie fleet to pick off any straglers. A Crusader can do almost the same DPS and is a hell of a lot faster but cannot put the damage out to such ranges. So if were on a gate I can lock up anything even on the huge gates and apply immediate DPS where as a Sader has to burn over to it. The Retribution does what its intended for it adds DPS to frigate gangs, For larger stuff however SB's do it a hell of a lot better. Other people have tried to keep up with the Frig gangs in nano fit cruisers but they tend to get caught. --- It's like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one."
Chasghar	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:33:00 - [66] What I can't understand is that why people doesn't want to have one more med slot in the retribution? It doesn't make it any worse, only helps it to tackle by itself.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:38:00 - [67] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Dray To be brutally honest your t1 cruiser pilot are crap if you out damage them, in fact reading your reply suggests that most of the people your fighting are crap, as for tanking multiple t2 cruisers, they must've been barely able to fly them. The retri is useless because other ships do the same job for less. I can pick thru the many fights I've been in where a sub par ship has done well, but when your fighting people who know what they're doing things like you describe just don't happen. When the HAC's first appeared I really wanted a good auto-cannon set-up for the muninn, I made one which wasn't anything special, its not the role of the ship but it was what I wanted, I killed an apoc with it, does that make the auto-muninn good, not really what it means is some people shouldn't fly apocs if they dont know how to fit them. This maxim is the single most important thing to remember about ships, fittings, and alleged performance. You are welcome to come up the venal any time you wish to meet these "crap" pilots, I am sure they will love to meet you. Honestly you are like the people back on SWG who insisted that the tie bomber was crap and anyone I killed was a crap pilot. That is, untill they found their intercepter with a destroyed reactor and my bomber slowly floating around in front of their ****pit. I wonder why it is that people have such a hard time beliving that other people can have fun and be effective in a ship they dont like... I do belive you can have fun, but I hardly belive its very effective ;). I have been to Venal, mostly empty last time I was there :P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Thenoran Caldari Tranquility Industries	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:39:00 - [68] For PvE the one midslot could do, like on the Coercer for ratting or stuff like that. For PvP, especially on frigates, you need MWD and point. Frigates don't deal enough damage or have a good enough tank to be used for much else. T1 Frigates are very cheap in comparison and as such are fine to use in a multitude of ways. Even a simple Griffin can be worth taking over a Blackbird if you need to keep stuff cheap or its a rookie pilot. Assault Frigates are another matter, they cost more than the Tier 3 cruiser, but don't add all that much to it. Interceptors can tackle, but EAFs and AFs are being overshadowed in cost-efficiency by T1 cruisers. The primary reason to get a Frigate is low-cost and the ability to lock fast, MWD and point. For PvP, the Retri can do neither. AFs and EAFs as a whole need looking at, but one mid slot on a 15-20mil frigate leaves it for one role only: PvE. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.16 16:46:00 - [69] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs I do belive you can have fun, but I hardly belive its very effective ;). I have been to Venal, mostly empty last time I was there :P Its target rich nowadays Originally by: Chasghar What I can't understand is that why people doesn't want to have one more med slot in the retribution? It doesn't make it any worse, only helps it to tackle by itself. Nobody will argue over a second mid, nothing would make me happier and I already have a scram fitting just waiting for the change I hope will come
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.16 17:00:00 - [70] Originally by: Lindsay Logan Far better then the Retr. as I see it. Sure, it might not be able to speed tank, or really tank much at all, but at least you bring something useful that can deal decent dps and keep a point out. It is also a lot cheaper. The thing about that Omen is that it has 8.5 times less tracking than that Retribution, as well as four times the signature radius. The Omen won't be able to hit frigates (especially interceptors) that well while the Retri can absolutely paste them, and in return the Retribution will last much longer than that Omen against anything except small weapons (though the excellent explosive resistances let it tank Warrior IIs for ages). It all depends on what you want to do with it - if you're going up against battleships then the Omen will hopefully be able to do it's damage-dealing job properly without being taken down, and against other medium-sized ships it'll deal damage well enough until it gets primaried. It's a toss-up whether the Omen would do better against medium ships than the Retribution, since it can put out more raw damage which will hit well in most situations, but it has less than double the EHP of a typical Retribution, and is 14 times easier to track so those other medium ships will be melting it much more quickly in return. Against smaller ships the Retri wins hands down, doing excellent small-gun damage at excellent range (20km with Scorch, typically) with a reasonable, compared to the Omen that won't be able to hit the smaller ships and will die fairly quickly. I don't think it's an obvious call either way by any means; it would definitely depend what you have in your gang already and what kind of targets you're going to be engaging.

Dray Caldari Culture Breach	Posted - 2009.06.16 17:11:00 - [71] Originally by: baltec1 You are welcome to come up the venal any time you wish to meet these "crap" pilots, I am sure they will love to meet you. Honestly you are like the people back on SWG who insisted that the tie bomber was crap and anyone I killed was a crap pilot. That is, untill they found their intercepter with a destroyed reactor and my bomber slowly floating around in front of their ****pit. I wonder why it is that people have such a hard time believing that other people can have fun and be effective in a ship they dont like... If you looked at my other post I said people like to fly what they fly, but if your out damaging pilots in t1 cruisers who aren't crap, then they are doing something fundamentally wrong, unless there all long range jockeys with poor setups. I just don't get it. Just regular set ups with most top tier t1 cruisers will, if well fitted and flown out damage a retri. Even a cruiser with a 50m3 drone bay will with decent skills and t2 drones get upto @ 50-75% of a retri's output with 4 med pulse with faction multi's and 2 heats sinks, thats before they fit guns. If your happy flying it, then fly it, but that's your choice but it doesn't make it a good ship, and the engagements your talking about don't make sense if the pilots are halfway decent.
Christina Bamar Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.06.16 19:22:00 - [72] Originally by: baltec1 You are welcome to come up the venal any time you wish to meet these "crap" pilots, I am sure they will love to meet you. Honestly you are like the people back on SWG who insisted that the tie bomber was crap and anyone I killed was a crap pilot. That is, untill they found their intercepter with a destroyed reactor and my bomber slowly floating around in front of their ****pit. I wonder why it is that people have such a hard time beliving that other people can have fun and be effective in a ship they dont like... If you want anti-frig then a Coercer can actually work quite well (and is very rarely primaried). Otherwise I'd go with an arbitrator to be honest, good mix of damage and utility. Giving the Retribution 2 mids would be a good idea, it's definitely sub-par at the moment. Then again, AFs in general are pretty sub-par and don't really have a niche.
Relatyve Mynd	Posted - 2009.06.16 20:05:00 - [73] Edited by: Relatyve Mynd on 16/06/2009 20:09:32 This discussion is only really happening since the speed nerf, and I think it will continue ad hominem with a few people holding out in the name of tiny awesome gunships and most people pointing out this and that fact...blah blah blah What we really need to be talking about is what a nice ship this would become if there was a 4th AF bonus. The point of that bonus would be to make AF's act like a HAC is to a BS, a lot of dmg in a smaller package. Just like this discussion is only happening seriously since the speed nerf, an AF buff would finally push ships like the retri into broad use. the only problem is that really dangerous solo ships like the jag, wolf, and ishkur would get a buff, which would make them the next fotm. imho. edit: and obviously if you move the utility high to a mid slot, I see no reason why this ship wouldn't be as popular as the other great AF's.
Traderboz	Posted - 2009.06.16 20:59:00 - [74] Venal as of a few weeks ago was very quiet and boring tbh. Good place to rat, but I definitely wouldn't call it action packed. That said, Retri is still sub par. Just because you've gotten on killmails with one before, or even outdamaged bad cruiser pilots, doesn't mean it's a good ship. Sub par ships can still function. It's not that people are saying the Retribution is useless. We're saying there are better ships out there for any gang or any job you're trying to perform. Even if you out-DPS a bad cruiser pilot in your Retribution, you're contributing nothing other than your paltry DPS to your gang. The cruiser pilot is contributing drones, ewar, and if he has a brain and a decent fit, more DPS than your Retribution. Even if a Retri has more survivability than a 1600mm plate cruiser, all it can survive to do is deliver DPS (and frigate DPS at that). The fact that it's a frigate that can't even put ewar/tackle on a target is just laughable. So yes, you can get on killmails. Yes, you might even be on top of a few if other pilots in cruisers weren't in range half the fight or have 2 million SP. That doesn't make it a useful gang ship, and I don't think anyone is going to argue it's a useful solo ship.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.16 21:40:00 - [75] Taking that omen setup as our example there are many areas that the retri is better. I fly both ships and that omen setup is not that different from mine but for small roaming gangs I will take the reti or a sentinel because they so much more survivable and can deal with targets a cruiser will struggle with. If they were not good then I would not fly them, the vengence being a good example.
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.06.16 23:07:00 - [76] Edited by: Invelious on 16/06/2009 23:06:55 could a crusader out dps a retribution?
SuiJuris	Posted - 2009.06.16 23:28:00 - [77] Edited by: SuiJuris on 16/06/2009 23:29:06 I think the Sader tops out at roughly 190 DPS ish, maybe a hair over 200. The Retribution tops out around 230-250. The sader comes very close and is much more useful for other things, However I like to "sniper fit" my retributions. Sure 90 DPS out to 46km doesn't sound like much unless you target things that can't really take 90 dps for long, Tech 1 frigs, Inties, they don't like me. I can also crystal down and do 180 DPS out to 10k. Is it amazing no, Do I find it more useful then other ships for the same very niche job. Yes I do. Do I think it could use some improvement, Definitely. Is a second Mid slot the answer probably so. Also the Vengeance could use some More CPU if you actually want to fit rockets on it. --- It's like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one."
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.06.17 00:01:00 - [78] Originally by: Invelious Edited by: Invelious on 16/06/2009 23:06:55 could a crusader out dps a retribution? Seems unlikely. They both have 4 turrets and a damage bonus, and one ancillary bonus (Tracking for sader, range for retribution), but the retribution is much more able to fit damage mods as it has more ample fitting and an additional low. Plus, the weakness of small turrets is range, not tracking, so the retribution will probably be doing more actual on-target damage in any case. Also the Retribution can fit Medium Pulse Lasers without much trouble whereas the Crusader is pretty much limited to Dual Light Pulse Lasers. __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.17 07:32:00 - [79] Originally by: Traderboz So yes, you can get on killmails. Yes, you might even be on top of a few if other pilots in cruisers weren't in range half the fight or have 2 million SP. That doesn't make it a useful gang ship, and I don't think anyone is going to argue it's a useful solo ship. /signed. It's the same story with the FOTM Mega Beam Zealot, which packs just SBs and/or an LSE in mid slots and relies on other ppl doing ALL the dirty job (tackle), just to top them in the KM... Yes, the Zealot can "Solo" stupid ceptor/frig/SB pilots, just like snipe-muninns or canes...sfw? As I have repeatedly stated in those forums, the Zealot is a KM-Whoring beast, and ppl like to use it as it can stay out of reach and apparently "safe"(er) than other gang members that actually get into the fight. Not a lot different than the average Cerb actually. Zealots and Retributions are perfectly fine in overkill/blobing situations, and IMHO are very unlikely to turn the tides of a battle, unlike the successful bubbling/tackle everything relies on. Yes, Clever warpins also aid Snipe HACs and can turn tides, provided you are fighting completely outnumbered and/or close range opponents. In either case the bubblers/tacklers win the fight once more (or the bad bubbling calls from the enemy FCs that could do it for you). Fitting niche roles better than other ships or ship classes doesn't remove the fact that ASs are very limited against most ships, and that the Retribution is the most limited of them all. And KM whoring is rarely a useful niche... Flying ships for the lulz is VERY good...it's a game after all...but do not try to re-invent the wheel here...PvP ships fighting closer than 24km (or even 9km) and not fitting a single tackling module, fail. In fact the even the new SBs are IMHO way more versatile...need to say more? And comparing the Crusader to the Retribution also fails big...
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.17 08:33:00 - [80] Originally by: Diomidis /signed. It's the same story with the FOTM Mega Beam Zealot, which packs just SBs and/or an LSE in mid slots and relies on other ppl doing ALL the dirty job (tackle), just to top them in the KM... Yes, the Zealot can "Solo" stupid ceptor/frig/SB pilots, just like snipe-muninns or canes...sfw? As I have repeatedly stated in those forums, the Zealot is a KM-Whoring beast, and ppl like to use it as it can stay out of reach and apparently "safe"(er) than other gang members that actually get into the fight. Not a lot different than the average Cerb actually. Aside from the fact that I get stuck in with the reti at close range. The reti can also tank a lot of firepower and in small gangs, either due to poor target calling or people expecting a quick kill, I get targeted a lot. This is good as I am soaking up damage that might take down other ships in my gang (undertanked gank cruisers for example). In big fights (capital fights) I get the job of guarding the battleships from drones and intercepters. In this roll I can end up doing quite a bit of damage which realy does help the fleet.



Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.