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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.06.28 04:50:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Izuru Hishido
Originally by: Malcanis I'd like to see the Eom geddon changed from being unavailable to available.
Agreed. The fact that these aren't available is disappointing to say the least.
Could be useful with this bonus: 25% bonus to torpedo and Cruise range and 25% bonus to Damage for both missile types.
Suggest eight high slots, six missile hardpoints, two empty highs for other modules.
75 cm^3 drone bay, 75 m^3 bandwidth.
Suggest six mid slots for a shield tank, with the capability to actually FIT a full rack of torpedo launchers and a viable shield tank without fitting mods.
It'd probably need four lowslots, and three rig slots of course.
Um... you just described the Raven. Only not as good.
I was kinda thinking the same thing there, although the improved cpu/grid would be nice
now with an extra midslot and extra launcher hardpoint 
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.06.28 05:17:00 -
[152]
Don't have time to read 6 pages, but just chipping in to say the Sansha ships are beautiful, don't change them 
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2009.06.28 05:59:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Regat Kozovv on 28/06/2009 05:59:43
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Regat Kozovv Just a quick two cents, but since the Rattlesnake is built on the Scorpion model, why not drop the missile bonus and go for rails boni? We've got plenty of missile boats already, and a faction Caldari railboat might change some things up. Gurista NPC Rattlesnakes already sport a ton of turrets. You can mix some EWAR in if you're feeling adventurous, but otherwise you could consider a lighter, but slightly harder-hitting version of the Rokh. (Less tank, more gank. )
why would you want that when you have a 1/2 caldari laser boat 
Nothing wrong with a 1/2 Caldari Laser boat. =)
I just think a rail-bonus Rattlesnake would fit well with the Gurista theme (their ships are already bristling with turrets) and it would be a nice compliment to the Caldari side as the CNR fills the missile role well.
Or, as someone else summed it up earlier: Faction Rokh.  |

Malena Panic
Gallente Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.28 08:34:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Awesome Possum I demand the GFPD be put back on the Comet.
An infuriating and unnecessary change. I want my cop car back!  |

Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.28 10:14:00 -
[155]
If people get freaking EOM ships.......
You better make thukker ships or I'm gonna freak. |

Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2009.06.28 11:48:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Megan Maynard If people get freaking EOM ships.......
You better make thukker ships or I'm gonna freak.
Vaga? Cheetah? Any other ship developed by Thukker Mix? |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.28 12:07:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Megan Maynard If people get freaking EOM ships.......
You better make thukker ships or I'm gonna freak.
I have no objection to Thukker ships 
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.06.28 12:18:00 -
[158]
Equilibrium of Mankind Thukker Fleet Syndicate Armada Ammatar Navy Khanid Navy Mordus Legion Sisters Explorers Interbus Commerce Fleet 'Integrated' + 'Augmented' Society Experimental Vessels
Lots of space for new faction stuff. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.28 12:18:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Regat Kozovv Edited by: Regat Kozovv on 28/06/2009 05:59:43
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Regat Kozovv Just a quick two cents, but since the Rattlesnake is built on the Scorpion model, why not drop the missile bonus and go for rails boni? We've got plenty of missile boats already, and a faction Caldari railboat might change some things up. Gurista NPC Rattlesnakes already sport a ton of turrets. You can mix some EWAR in if you're feeling adventurous, but otherwise you could consider a lighter, but slightly harder-hitting version of the Rokh. (Less tank, more gank. )
why would you want that when you have a 1/2 caldari laser boat 
Nothing wrong with a 1/2 Caldari Laser boat. =)
I just think a rail-bonus Rattlesnake would fit well with the Gurista theme (their ships are already bristling with turrets) and it would be a nice compliment to the Caldari side as the CNR fills the missile role well.
Or, as someone else summed it up earlier: Faction Rokh. 
Rattlesnake as an ECM/Hybrid boat would be great:
3 turret slots, +3 utility Increase dronebay to 100m^3/100mbit
Role bonus: +100% hybrid damage +7.5% tracking per level of gallante BS +20% to ECM strength per level of caldari BS
There you have a fantastic close up shield buffered blaster/ECM boat. |

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.28 14:24:00 -
[160]
Sod ECM on Guristas ships. We have enough ECM boats atm, each with fairly well-defined roles, we don't need any more really.
Also, there's nothing wrong with split weapon systems in principle - they only become a problem when the final ship stats, when fitted, are a problem. This is why the Typhoon works - it has the slot layout and drone bay to support its "suboptimal" split weapon system - albeit when you have 60 mill SP, anyway...
But the Guristas ships do need reworking. Currently the Worm is worse than the Hawk, widely regarded as the worst T2 frigate and one of the worst ships overall in game. The Gila is pointless and the Rattlesnake is just a Raven with an extra lowslot.
These ships fail because they have split weapon bonuses but not a proper split weapon system, no redeeming factors such as a drone bay to make up for the suboptimal split bonuses, and crippling PG and CPU problems.
Faction ships may be rare, but that rarity makes them important to the players, who see them as something to aim for, and they shouldn't be disappointed to find out that their shiny faction BS offers nothing over a T1 ship. Guristas ships are supposed to be a Cal/Gall hybrid. To me, that says a mix of hybrids, missiles and drones.
Let's see a Rattlesnake that keeps its split weapon system, with a 4/4 turret/launcher split - but with a 200 m3 drone bay (125 m3 bandwidth) and a drone damage/HP bonus to make up for the inherent weakness of the split weapon system. The other bonuses should be hybrid and missile ROF or damage. Then make sure it's got the fittings to actually support a sensible torp/blasters or rails/cruise fit, with either a shield or armour tank. That gives us a shpi that's viable in PVP or PVE and is different to all other ships in the game. Yes, it's skill-intensive, needing missiles, hybrids and drones, but faction BS should be skill-intensive, they should be something for players to aim towards. |

eliminator2
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.28 19:41:00 -
[161]
so may i ask now any CCP/DEV/GM wether or not your all seriously consideringremaking faction ships to be more better
please don't nerf any though like your ussual quick fix please
you know they lead to more whining and tantroms :D ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :)
i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise |

Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.06.28 21:41:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Megan Maynard If people get freaking EOM ships.......
You better make thukker ships or I'm gonna freak.
I have no objection to Thukker ships 
Yeah that Thukker Rifter in wildlands is pretty cool.
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eliminator2
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.29 18:31:00 -
[163]
ok lets bump this now since the lame
"patch wont dl" threahds are over ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :)
i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise |

Letifer Deus
Caldari Corporation 12345
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Posted - 2009.06.29 20:35:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/06/2009 20:36:13 Pretty much everything but the TS ships need love. I'll stick with the vindi for now:
swap tracking bonus for 7.5% bonus to armor rep amount
increase grid/cpu to allow a proper neutron/dual rep setup. The Nightmare's fitting ease -where it is your wallet, not the ship, that limits you- should be closer to the rule than the exception on faction pirate BS. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |

EvilSpork
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.29 23:18:00 -
[165]
yep pretty much what everyone else is saying: ALL faction ships need a LOT of love with the exception of the Nightmare. The Phantasm needs a little more fitting perhaps but is overall a decent ship, though a bit overpriced.
I'd personally like to see a lot more faction ships added for all the smaller factions and combinations of factions not currently in represented. ie: EoM, amarr/gallente, caldari/minmitar, a real serpentis BS(vindicator is guardian angel. angels have 2 faction BS, which is ok), maybe khanid, and perhaps even a drone ship?!
Some suggestion for things that are hints that a ship sucks and needs to be fixed: convoluted bonuses and roles like on the Gila, navy Scythe, Ashimmu, Cynabal, Rattlesnake, Machariel, and ALL faction frigates except the navy Slicer. These ships all suffer from either split weapons slots or bonuses, or have a disproportionate number of weapons vs high slots. Look at the poor Dramiel: 3 bonuses for projectiles, 5 high slots, and... TWO TURRET SLOTS?! and *THREE* missile slots?! It's "bonuses" and "features" like these that make most faction ships expensive paperweights.
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Vanessa Vasquez
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Posted - 2009.06.30 01:37:00 -
[166]
YES PLS! faction (not ships exclusive) needs love, one of my most desired things within eve!
I was thinking of placing the faction cruisers next to HACs and the faction frigs next to AF. Reason is simple. They are allready in the same price region and PVP is usually T2 stuff, at least below BC class ships.
I would make them require both shipclass skills to be at lvl 5, to make them really unique vessels and approach T2 skilltime while placing them next to their T2 counterparts. And give them a role which fits. Fe. the
Vigilant
Actually it's an inferior Deimos. It's gallente/minmatar and gallente lacks a real sniper hack. So why not make it a fast sniper which doesn't match the range of the Eagle, nor the dps of the muninn. But fast and with good tracking, probably for anti frigate sniping?
Gila
The mixed weapon bonus is lol. Especially when you consider the drake, navy caracal and cerberus allready beeing good and "nearly similar" turret boats. It's gallente/caldari, so what would be more logical to make it a shield tanked drone boat?
Cynabal
Why would anyone fly that except the great looks? Just buy a Vaga and be way faster, more dps, more HP, more versatility. It's Minmatar/Gallante, and we allready have the Vigilant as a sniper. So mabye we can get this baby as a fast deimos on projectiles? Not as much dps as a deimos and not as fast as a Vaga, but right in the middle.
Have no idea on the Ashimmu or Phantasm atm, can't fly ammar so i haven't bothered yet ^^
Navy Vexor
Myrm, Ishtar, Vexor Navy are quite close, so it's actually hard to find a role for the Vexor Navy Issue. 3 thoughts though.
1) bonus for electronic warefare drones, making it an ewar ship 2) nano'ed, like 2000 - 2500 m/s - less tank and dps than myrm/ishtar, but hard to catch 3) passive tank bonus [myrm active](maybe low sig as well cause slow with plates) or dps/falloff bonus to outperform the ishtar dps when going risky close range
Just some thoughs, would definately wan't to see faction revamped !
Quote:
[21:02:14] McKinlay > it's always nice to be out-failed :P. there are no winners or losers just people that fail harder
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Veebora
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.30 02:33:00 -
[167]
I think the biggest issue on the faction stuff lies on the high price.
I would like having faction ship being just a bit better as well as just a little more expensive and specialized than common stuff.
All "different" stuff in EVE is so rare and expensive that it becomes forbidden for most players.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltd0wn Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 04:03:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 30/06/2009 04:04:13
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Vaga? Cheetah? Any other ship developed by Thukker Mix?
Jaguar and Nomad.
That said, one more rant on 2 or 3-way split weapon systems.
The usual arguments against them is inefficiency of weapon upgrade modules and needed skillpoint investments. The first one is annoying, the second one can be sat out.
The real showstopper for me is, that every weapon system in EVE requires a certain flight behaviour in pvp to bring its benefits over your opponent to bear. With split layouts, it is very rare to be able to play to the advantage of all your weapon systems (unless your opponent is a permajammed sitting duck).
And another issue was raised by a fellow capsuleer, to change the fleet pest's alpha ability so Minmatar would have a real sniper again. While it would definately be nice, the reduced meaning of volley damage isn't what killed Minmatar as a sniping race. Minmatar need too many slots to achieve competitive locking and weapon ranges (and still fail). The reintroduction of stacking penalties for locus rigs hurt a lot more. 140/44 optimal/falloff simply is a knife in a gunfight, when your opponent has 200km+ optimal.
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Caffeine Junkie
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:35:00 -
[169]
Rattlesnake and Gila as per this thread
Linkage
Ignore all the crap about the pilgrim.
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Lucas Tigh
United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:09:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Malena Panic
Originally by: Awesome Possum I demand the GFPD be put back on the Comet.
An infuriating and unnecessary change. I want my cop car back! 
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CCP, make me a winner. |

To mare
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Posted - 2009.06.30 18:45:00 -
[171]
- sansha ships are fine - Bhal need more fitting and i would like to see the 125mb drone since its a armageddon hull (ashimmu and cruor ned some love in the same way as well) - Rattlesnake hybrid bonus is useless a drone bonus would be perfect, cruiser and frigs i heard need some love too but idk - Serpentis ships need something to justify the price tag give them their agility back - Machariel need its speed advantage back i would love to see a mach nanofitted doing 2,5km/s before heat, angel frig need more turrets, cynabal need a bit more fitting it would be perfect with 100 more grid for 1600 plate + AC like a rupture.
in order i would love to see mach and bhal fixed first and please no more marauder bonus on faction ships
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Shikagi Sitami
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Posted - 2009.06.30 20:42:00 -
[172]
All of the pirate factions have been trumped.
Frigates by Electronic Attack frigs and a few others.
Cruisers by Recons and Strategics
BS by Marauders.
The blood raider ships have been hit especially hard by the Curse & Huginn/Rapier, eliminating both of its strengths. Need to be revamped entirely just like Sansha were.
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eliminator2
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:34:00 -
[173]
its very nice to see 6 pages of people aggreeing that the same faction ships need overhauling NO NERFING but boosting.
my question is now do CCP allso see this and have the brians to fix it without nerfing anything ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :)
i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:43:00 -
[174]
Confirming that not enough brians are working for CCP.
(They're very naughty boys that should leave Welsh tarts alone)
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Vanessa Vasquez
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Posted - 2009.07.01 05:47:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Malcanis Confirming that not enough brians are working for CCP.
(They're very naughty boys that should leave Welsh tarts alone)
You Sir, certainly have enough brains. Thx 4 sharing your ideas 
Quote:
[21:02:14] McKinlay > it's always nice to be out-failed :P. there are no winners or losers just people that fail harder
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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2009.07.01 06:14:00 -
[176]
Originally by: eliminator2 the ships are macherial, Vindicator, Nightmare, Bhaalgorn and rattlesnake (if missed any of them please let me know)
Dramiel Daredevil Succubus Comet Slicer Hookbill Firetail Cruor Worm Gila Navy Caracal Navy Osprey Navy Omen Navy Augoror Navy Vexor Navy Exequror Fleet Stabber Fleet Scythe Vigilant Ashimmu Phantasm Cynabal Navy Raven Navy Apocalypse Navy Megathron Fleet Tempest
These are the faction ships you have missed out.
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Melanie Griffin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.07.02 07:42:00 -
[177]
faction needs love, absolutely
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Zackalwe
Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.02 16:18:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Xianthar
Originally by: Malcanis store) or the puppy gets it. 4: split weapons are BAD
Quoted for emphasis, 6+ years eve has been around, can't believe there are still ships with split weapon bonuses.
This is indeed a problem for some of these ships. Its not that split weapons systems are a bad idea, its just the way they are implemented. The two main reasons split weapons systems on a ship are bad in Eve:
1. A ship normally has two bonuses. If the bonuses are used up on two different weapons you effectively have half the net bonus worth than if both bonuses were on a single weapon. So split weapon ship bonuses have to change.
Solution: Maybe for example, instead of ROF bonus to projectiles and damage bonus to missiles. Have: ROF bonus to projectiles+missiles, damage bonus to projectiles+missiles. Still two bonuses but affecting both weapon systems.
2. Second problem is damage mods. To get the same damage increase as a standard ship, a split weapon ship needs to use twice the low slots on damage mods. A bit unfair.
Solution: Have modules that can affect more than one stat. For example in our projectile and missile ship, you could fit a damage mod that had a bonus to projectiles and missiles in one module. Maybe make them a bit more expensive and only 90percent as effective as the two mods they are replacing, so they dont get used as a standard module. _
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Opan santel
Gallente Fatal Error.
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Posted - 2009.07.04 10:42:00 -
[179]
moar luv for faction ships pls ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Navigator Steak serving robots are the best robots.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.07.13 18:23:00 -
[180]
Oh look what I found ! A thread ! About faction ships no less. Definitely needs more input. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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