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which faction ship would you like to see changed?

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eliminator2 Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:12:00 - [1] the ships are macherial, Vindicator, Nightmare, Bhaalgorn and rattlesnake (if missed any of them please let me know) ok so id like to see the macherial changed for one simple reason it has no purpose, it had purpose when nano was around because it was a oversized vagabond and noone had any problems with it, but when the speed nerf hit the servers the macherial was nerfed to nothing if you want a armor tanking good DPSer you go with vindicator, it carnt shield tank armor tank even the plate fit is fail needs a role and a role fast to be worth what it costs the vindicator is my next thought which it basicly is a more costing navy megathron with an extra med, most people with gallenete BS lv5 will choose the navy over the vindi but thn again the vindi is more effective at the whole armor tanking but fails at plate fit and its not that fare from been beaten by the navy mega still. nightmare is just the awsome it has good shield tank good DPS and can stay alive even perma run everything with gistii setup BUT bring a vargur or any others in and its beaten just by the fact the vargur has bigger cargo which to me a faction should out do a T2 BS Bhaalgorn is one of my fravourits has good EW can nuet a BS cap to 0 in 1 cycle (if fitted all nuets) and the other setup with guns and nuets is allso really effective since the tank on enemy ships will have no cap after 2-3 cycles the rattlesnake i know nothing off so im not even going to judge it now the Question is what would YOU like to see changed with these ships (no outrages remarks) NOTE: this allso includes GM's DEV's CCP anyone who reads this it applies to you give your thoughts :D ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :) i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:17:00 - [2] Tbh, Bhaalgorn, Ashimmu, Cynabal and Dramiel all need looked at, maybe the Cruor too... ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
eliminator2 Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:19:00 - [3] Originally by: Blane Xero Tbh, Bhaalgorn, Ashimmu, Cynabal and Dramiel all need looked at, maybe the Cruor too... Bhaalgorn are you mad? thats the most working one of them all the macherial isnt worth its price at all 0_o ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :) i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:22:00 - [4] WTB Navy Comet with 25% Bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Damage, 7.5% bonus to tracking and 5% bonus to armor repair amount per level. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.quafeultra.com ò Buy a GTC
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:23:00 - [5] Originally by: eliminator2 Originally by: Blane Xero Tbh, Bhaalgorn, Ashimmu, Cynabal and Dramiel all need looked at, maybe the Cruor too... Bhaalgorn are you mad? thats the most working one of them all the macherial isnt worth its price at all 0_o Define "most working". They are intended as expensive playtoys, and i find the fact you are fine paying 1.2b+ for a bhaalgorn yet find the machariel overpriced slightly ironic. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:24:00 - [6] Ashimmu, Bhaalgorn, Cruor, Cynabal, Daredevil, Dramiel, Gila, Machariel, Rattlesnake, Vigilant, Vindicator, Worm. …more or less. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:24:00 - [7] All empire faction ships. Either their price needs to go down, at least on cruiser/frigate side and/or effectiveness needs to be increased. All pirate faction ships need a look at, except the Sansha, which already got overhauled, though the Nightmare could use a more nightmarish look, it's too straight and harmless at the moment. Also almost all faction modules need to be reviewed for their price/effectiveness/rarity ratios and the Sansha need to be adjusted to the way their faction ships were changed. Also Sansha NPCs need to be changed accordingly. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Thenoran Caldari Tranquility Industries	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:27:00 - [8] All Navy Frigates, split setups that make no sense, especially the Gallente one. Ashimmu, the most awesome looking ship in the game needs stats that match those looks. More PG, laser damage bonus and maybe a midslot for a cap booster. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:27:00 - [9] Everything but Sansha, dumdum.
eliminator2 Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: eliminator2 Originally by: Blane Xero Tbh, Bhaalgorn, Ashimmu, Cynabal and Dramiel all need looked at, maybe the Cruor too... Bhaalgorn are you mad? thats the most working one of them all the macherial isnt worth its price at all 0_o Define "most working". They are intended as expensive playtoys, and i find the fact you are fine paying 1.2b+ for a bhaalgorn yet find the machariel overpriced slightly ironic. hmm good point didnt check the price for them yet last i sore was 1bill 0_o ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :) i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:35:00 - [11] Originally by: Blane Xero Tbh, Bhaalgorn, Ashimmu, Cynabal and Dramiel all need looked at, maybe the Cruor too... JOIN FOFF NOW CHAT CHANNEL FOR MORE INFO
arbiter reformed Minmatar Kuvakei's vengence	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:37:00 - [12] the bhaalgorn does what its ment to do very effectivly, unfortunatly its role in bs gangs is questionable as when fighting a rr bs gang you cant nuet out there passive tanks, sure you can stop a few ppl remote repping as effectivly but if you hasd gone in an abaddon your dps would have overwhelmed those reps anyway. for other stuff, ie bringing it along to make your gang more capable against smaller targets, killing mission runners, 1v1s and such like are often overlooked and i think bhaalgs can bring a versetility to your gang no other faction or non ships can really do. still it doesnt fit the current meta game particularly well, there are alot less active tanks these days. the nightmare needs crystals and officer/dead fit to function properly, its probably the biggest isk sink of the bunch because of this, but as burning eve 4, 5 (dhb's videos) shows it pwns when properly fit/ flown. the vindi also is an officer fit kinda ship, when your running an active tank the space for an extra capbooster is an amazing advantage, the cap /mwd bonus is a great help for cap stability too. i think most of the faction bs arnt bought becausse of the amazing capabilities, but mostly because why not buy one if youre gonna put 5 bill into a ship, the extra bonus might not be amazing but its better than nothing, and when you remove cost from the equation the mach is better than fleet pest, vindi is better than navy mega even if only slightly. ppl want the best ship they can get as a base to build on. pirate bss are fine imo, all quams with the machariel run deeper than that ship; but with minmitar in general, the tempest and fleet varient are just as lacking. i think what really need to be looked at are pirate cruisers all but the phantasm and gila are a joke, cynbal anyone? ashimmu ffs? as for faction better than t2 i dont agree with that, faction should be different too t2 not better or worse. Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.Applebabe

CCP Ytterbium	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:39:00 - [13] Just popping here to express my interest in this thread. Please keep the ideas and discussion going, the spice must flow. All your thoughts are belong to us. The dev is a lie. Over 9042. Engage.

Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:40:00 - [14] bal got hit hard with all it bonuses nerfed web and nos nerf like OMG then the arazu and then the eos all these ships that are getting double nerfed are all this ships i fly ¼_¼ im sorry CCP for hurting your forums dont double nerf the ships i am loving to fly now :) JOIN FOFF NOW CHAT CHANNEL FOR MORE INFO
Illwill Bill Svea Rike	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:43:00 - [15] The Dramiel has five high-slots, but only two turret slots. Yet, all bonuses are for projectile turrets. Makes no sense to me.
eliminator2 Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:46:00 - [16] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Just popping here to express my interest in this thread. Please keep the ideas and discussion going, the spice must flow. All your thoughts are belong to us. The dev is a lie. Over 9042. Engage. just...... get out :s ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :) i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.22 16:59:00 - [17] The ashimmu at the moment cannot be fitted with anything to make it good. It just has too little CPU and powergrid.
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:00:00 - [18] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa WTB Navy Comet with 25% Bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Damage, 7.5% bonus to tracking and 5% bonus to armor repair amount per level. I would prefer more than 2 turret slots.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:15:00 - [19] Bhaalgorn: 100% Damage bonus to Projectiles, 4 Turret Weapon slots 4 empty highs. Keep the rest of the slots the same. Keep the Neut/Nos/Web bonuses. Machariel: 8 highs, 6 turrets, drop the missile slots. Change the ROF bonus to a 50% falloff range bonus. Change the damage bonus to 12.5% and keep the tracking bonus the same. Vindicator: Change the turret damage bonus to 50%, drop the turrets to 6 and lose the missiles, with 8 highs. Keep the MWD Bonus, change the tracking bonus to 10%. Rattlesnake: 6 highs, 4 missiles. Change the velocity bonus to a damage bonus (50-75%), 12.5% bonus to cruise/torps velocity, change the hybrid bonus into an explosion radius bonus(/ Explosion Velocity? whatever is more useful) (5-7.5%). Balance all powergrid/cpu and some slots (Carefully). Just remember, these are off the top of my head right now and its a warm day, but this is a rough outline of what i've been mulling over for a long time. As i own the Vindicator, Nightmare and Machariel and have flown each extensively over the course of 2 years (Vindicator less so, as i only got it a couple of months ago) ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:20:00 - [20] Republic Fleet Firetail. It has very high speed and agility...but I'm not really seeing its role. The tackle interceptors can tackle better...the Firetail dies horribly since it doesn't have a MWD sig bonus. It lacks a damage bonus as well, so it can't really do damage. I don't see its role.
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:29:00 - [21] If you want to know what I think, the Rattlesnake needs a less useless Gallente bonus (hybrids), Machariel needs a 7th turret. I won't bother with numbers though because this isn't Ships/Modules. :S ___ Latest video: War Has Come (720p)
Thenoran Caldari Tranquility Industries	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:33:00 - [22] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Just popping here to express my interest in this thread. Please keep the ideas and discussion going, the spice must flow. All your thoughts are belong to us. The dev is a lie. Over 9042. Engage. You know Dune! If only they made something after Emperor... Back in the day, Dune II (later on Dune 2000)...such good memories... ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:39:00 - [23] I'd like to see the Eom geddon changed from being unavailable to available.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:40:00 - [24] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Just popping here to express my interest in this thread. Please keep the ideas and discussion going, the spice must flow. All your thoughts are belong to us. The dev is a lie. Over 9042. Engage. Oh my god... it's full of memes!
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:41:00 - [25] Not sure if you are following threads in the Features and Ideas forum too (as there is a serious lack of dev responses there) but I recently had posted a proposal to add a Third Skill Bonus for Empire Faction Ships including some examples.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:44:00 - [26] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Just popping here to express my interest in this thread. Please keep the ideas and discussion going, the spice must flow. All your thoughts are belong to us. The dev is a lie. Over 9042. Engage. Short list: 1: split weapons are bad, m'kay? 2: Faction frigates and cruisers are waaaaay too expensive from the LP stores 3: Give us an EoM NPC sov region (and LP store) or the puppy gets it. 4: split weapons are BAD 5: most of the faction frigates and cruisers need better fittings (CPU & PG)
Ragedman Nolite Me Conculcare	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:47:00 - [27] Gallente Navy Comet needs it the most. A little off topic though.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:48:00 - [28] Originally by: Ragedman Gallente Navy Comet needs it the most. A little off topic though. Dramiel ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
ArmyOfMe The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:54:00 - [29] sadly the machariel is what the tempest should be
Xianthar STK Scientific The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Malcanis store) or the puppy gets it. 4: split weapons are BAD Quoted for emphasis, 6+ years eve has been around, can't believe there are still ships with split weapon bonuses.
Zeerover DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations	Posted - 2009.06.22 17:56:00 - [31] My biggest gripe with the faction BS'es is that there is only 1 true missile boat: the CNR. The Rattlesnake is, with it's split systems a bad choice. If the Rattlesnake was brought in line with the Golem statwise (ala Nightmare vs. Paladin), it would see a huge increase in usage. As it is now it's a ship few have any opinion on as it never sees regular use. So a 4 slot 100% dmg bonused cruice/siege boat, with same high/mid/low layout as current, but without the tb, tp, shield res & cargo bay bonus of the marauder would fit the bill nicely. Another option was to give it 125 drone bandwidth (from it's gallente component).
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:12:00 - [32] As someone with experience flying faction battleships in PvP, I'll say this: Before the nano-nerf, Machariel was the best pvp battleship, it was my favorite and I must have flown at least 8 of them. After the nano-nerf, I have attempted to use it in PvP, but it simply did not have enough of an edge to set it apart from other battleships. Right now, Nightmare is one of the best battleships in PvP, because it can have massive tank and gank setup. The focus role of a battleship now is to tank and gank, so the ships that can do at least 1 of those very well are successful. Speed tactics on battleships are no longer a viable option. Mach was the speed battleship. But honestly, I don't see how you can change Machariel - for example, to give it a new useful role. Especially if you realize that there are only 2 roles to work with - tank and gank. What else is there? There's nos/neut - Bhaal takes that. There's drone specialization - right now no faction battleship has that, but such a role is better suited for Vindicator than Mach. It is my opinion that the best role for Mach is speed tactics, return it back to former glory at least partially. One way to do that, without new bonuses or lots of stat tweaking, is to simply reduce Mach mass by half. Make it a 50 megaton battleship - 100 megaton with MWD. That would have significant speed boost, but it still wouldn't be as good as pre-nano nerf.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:23:00 - [33] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 22/06/2009 18:24:46 Can we have a different idea with the Bhaalgorn? I'm getting a bit sick of the doubled up turrets as an answer for everything. Macherial certainly needs looking at. But I think certain faction stuff needs to take higher priority, the tier 1 navy cruisers like the navy exequror and navy osprey are in an absolute terrible state. I also think there should be some form of Gallente faction battleship that can use something like 10 drones at once.
Avoida	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:32:00 - [34] I think the Gallente/Amarr faction ships really really need fixed...err...wait, there are none! And why is that? Why has that combination not been included? Nearly ever other combination exists.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:35:00 - [35] Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 22/06/2009 18:36:52 What I'd like to see is Faction ships for the Intaki Syndicate and Mordus Legion, to name a few of the factions that have no faction ships. And a Gallente/Amarr ship needs to be added! Sisters of EVE is Gallente/Amarr (wasn't it based on a religion that split from the Amarr faith or something?) so I see a golden opportunity there.
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr SPORADIC MOVEMENT Cult of War	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:37:00 - [36] Originally by: Tippia Ashimmu, Bhaalgorn, Cruor, Cynabal, Daredevil, Dramiel, Gila, Machariel, Rattlesnake, Vigilant, Vindicator, Worm. àmore or less. ^^This
Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:51:00 - [37] Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 22/06/2009 18:52:16 All the faction and pirate ships sucks except for Nightmare and possibly Phantasm. Succubus sucks and is impossible to fitt (might have something to do with CPU intensive hardners that are not really scaled to be fitted on frigates ). All faction ships kinda sucks without a third special ability bonus like the pirate ships has. Give all faction ship one racial "one-of-a-kind" ability bonus. Revisit pirate ships bonuses. I'd like the Rattlesnake to become a railgun equilivant of the Nightmare. We already have a missile ship, the Raven Navy Issue. The Blood Raiders ships, especially the Bhaalgorn should have its bonuses changed from energy drain amount to energy range. Also, introduce a new range of pirate ships from the Rogue Drone faction. These ships should of course have drone bonuses; Rogue Drone Infested Dominix anyone?
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:28:00 - [38] The honest answer is "most of them". Like a lot of stuff (COSMOS items, for example), they were made mostly redundant after tech 2 versions came along. Right now, faction frigates and cruisers don't really have any practical use--flying them in PVP only makes everyone remember how to focus fire, and they're not useful for level 4 missions. So they're mainly useful as status symbols.
Jettisoned Can Jenova's Witnesses	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:28:00 - [39] Guristas: -change Caldari bonus to unguided missile (torp, HAM, rocket (fix rockets btw)) RoF bonus -change Gallente bonus to scram range -increase missile velocity bonus Blood Raiders: -increase web range bonus on BS and possibly cruiser so lvl 5 range is equal to neut range of the ship class -remove all hardpoints -give them high drone bandwidth and an incredibly large drone bay -replace turret bonus with a + drones controlled bonus -increase fitting even though there are no more turrets/because there is more neut/nos Angels: -replace Minmatar damage bonus with falloff range bonus -increase turret hardpoints to compensate (and because Dramiel doesn't have enough) -increase fitting -increase base speed Serpentis I have no ideas for. Overall, Sansha is good. Decrease cost of frigates/cruisers and possibly all pirate ships at LP store. Increase fleet scythe drone bandwidth. Get rid of split weapons on frigates. Add faction BCs. (at least for pirates) And last but not least: Change the name of all pirate faction ships to include their faction moniker (Dark Blood Ashimmu, Domination Macherial, etc.) and add nerfed, non-faction versions under the old name available through BPOs at the LP store. _________________________ Did you really not have enough room for me? I'm only 1m¦.
Atlanton Marcus Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:52:00 - [40] Originally by: Jettisoned Can Guristas: -change Caldari bonus to unguided missile (torp, HAM, rocket (fix rockets btw)) RoF bonus -change Gallente bonus to scram range -increase missile velocity bonus Blood Raiders: -increase web range bonus on BS and possibly cruiser so lvl 5 range is equal to neut range of the ship class -remove all hardpoints -give them high drone bandwidth and an incredibly large drone bay -replace turret bonus with a + drones controlled bonus -increase fitting even though there are no more turrets/because there is more neut/nos Angels: -replace Minmatar damage bonus with falloff range bonus -increase turret hardpoints to compensate (and because Dramiel doesn't have enough) -increase fitting -increase base speed Serpentis I have no ideas for. Overall, Sansha is good. Decrease cost of frigates/cruisers and possibly all pirate ships at LP store. Increase fleet scythe drone bandwidth. Get rid of split weapons on frigates. Add faction BCs. (at least for pirates) And last but not least: Change the name of all pirate faction ships to include their faction moniker (Dark Blood Ashimmu, Domination Macherial, etc.) and add nerfed, non-faction versions under the old name available through BPOs at the LP store. Although some of the specifics in your ideas can be argued, I think your basic concept is spot on. Right now with the exception of the Blood Raiders and the Sansha faction ships, there is nothing particularly novel about the pirate ships. There needs to be something different in the way they are flown from any other ship in their class. There needs to be something that defines each pirate faction's style of warfare. For example, the scrambler range bonus that you suggested for Guristas could very well be that faction's specialty: disabling ships from a longer range and then pounding then into a pulp with a RoF bonus. Right now, pirate ships are not anything different that marginally boosted versions of their T1 counterparts. There is nothing that makes them compelling to fly.
Bugszor Caldari PodPal	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:10:00 - [41] Only reason i fly my bhaal nightmare and vindy is cause it looks cool on the killmail. :D
Wolke 7	Posted - 2009.06.22 21:35:00 - [42] Machariel. Make it at least one good-looking projectile boat with a punch! A shame to be outdamaged and outtanked by vertical Sansha-zombieballons with spikes.
Iece Quaan Caldari Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.06.22 21:52:00 - [43] Edited by: Iece Quaan on 22/06/2009 21:55:04 Cruor/Ashimmu- want to own them so badly.. but what would I use them for =P I really like the sansha ships, you did things with them that are kind of outside the box. Limited weapon hardpoints but mega damage bonuses- leaves room for gadget modules like salvagers, nos, cloak, tractors. Cruor/Ashimmu are similar.. honestly to make those ships awesome, a decent drone bay would be all that's needed. Maybe a super cap regen bonus? Split damage bonuses on the Comet/Firetail make baby jesus cry. If you're going to give them launchers, at least give them a specific missile damage type bonus ( gal therm and minnie exp ), or some other missile bonus ( rof/flight time ). On the whole, I think faction ships LP/isk cost should be reduced. They fill a role between t1 and t2, but currently cost more than similar t2 ship classes.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.22 22:04:00 - [44] The nightmare and pahntasm is currently pretty decent ships. The rest leaves a bit to be desired. Currently the pirate faction ships lacks some consistency with the recent expansions. The Gallente - Minmatar ones are underperformers. The Caldari - Gallente ones are kind of weak comapred to other ships out there; bonuses are not good at all, drop the gun bonuses for some drone bonuses and give em gallente drone bays and you get pretty decent ships. There where some pretty decent suggestion in the balance thread under what was previously game development forum (now test server feedback). Tho I have to point out again, the Nightmare and Phantasm do not need any changes at all, they are pretty balanced as is. Not overpowerd, not underpowerd, but perfomrs on the level of T2. The rest I do actually not even consider flying tbh. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Linas IV	Posted - 2009.06.22 22:16:00 - [45] Possible Changes for the Machariel: Change the Rof-Bonus to 37.5%; Change The Damage Bonus to 10% Falloff per Level; Keep the Tracking-Bonus as it is; Decrease Mass about 10-15% for more Speed and Agility; it got Nerved pretty hard last time; Maybe Change Slots to 6 Low-, 6 Medslots; Basicly a BS-sized Vaga, that is fast enough to dictate range to a propper degree.
Lithel Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.22 22:39:00 - [46] Bhaalgorn and Ashimmu.
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.06.22 22:40:00 - [47] Bhaalgorn should get its own damn model. Esspecailly considering its price. But that wont help balance so... So there!
Forge Lag Jita Lag Preservation Fund	Posted - 2009.06.22 23:17:00 - [48] Fleet Pest. I mean people complain about Machariel but it overdoes poor Pest by a mile. None even mentions it when talking about faction ships as if it never existed. The frigates are complete rubbish. Underachievers. Horribly overpriced. Pain to fit. When you finally have skills and gear to fit them they become utterly useless. Still, I don't care, it is just one of EvE dead features. The low tier navy cruisers are stillborns. We knew it before they hit Tranq. One wonders why do we even bother with this threat and why some CCP guy has to come around and provoke.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.06.22 23:38:00 - [49] All of them.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.22 23:42:00 - [50] every single one aside from the sansha line.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.06.22 23:50:00 - [51] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton every single one aside from the sansha line. This.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.06.23 00:14:00 - [52] The issues with faction ships fall into two basic categories: performance vs. cost and purity of purpose. The issue of performance vs. cost has become a major problem with the addition of Tier 3 BS and T2 BS. With the advent of the Hyperion for example, the Vindicator doesn't offer much over and above what the Hype is capable of, particularly with it's 5th mid and active tanking bonus. Smaller ships like the Ashimmu are just horrible to try and fit, and even if you did give them more CPU/grid, you still wouldn't have something that was very unique or special when you compare it to current T2 ships. Obviously, with the exception of the Nightmare and Phantasm, every single faction ship needs to be re-envisioned so that when compared to the other ships in its class, its just not competitive, its spectacular. They need more base HP for armor/shields/structure than anything else available, more cap, more resists, more DPS, more slots, more weapon hardpoints and more exotic bonuses to web range, nos/neut range etc. If faction ships were something that a ship one or two sizes larger than it would have to think a moment before engaging then you're doing it right. Faction ships need to be the Formula One purebreds of Eve, not some joke like they are now. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.06.23 00:30:00 - [53] Edited by: Ephemeron on 23/06/2009 00:34:17 To make pirate faction battleships more unique and edgy, we could go with something like this: Nightmare - keep as is, it's unusually strong shield tank and damage setup - that easily rivals the best of Gallente blaster boats Vindicator - more emphasis on drones, remove MWD bonus, add 10% drone damage bonus, add another 125 m3 drone space. Bhaal - change the 50% cap usage bonus to 25% laser damage bonus Machariel - change ship mass to 50 mega tons Rattlesnake - more emphasis on missiles is what's needed, the dual weapon bonus does nothing but gimp it. No specific suggestions Now you'll have battleships whose power people will admire. (Nightmare is already admired)
straw lana	Posted - 2009.06.23 00:31:00 - [54] Machariel, Machariel, Machariel. This thing is **** on a turkey at this point. My ideas? Cut mass in half. OR Get rid of missile hardpoints and give it a massive falloff bonus. I am partial to the first idea, because frankly, the thing is a flying brick of tofu.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.23 00:32:00 - [55] As per this thread, I'd like to see factions ships that require Amarr/Gallente or Caldari/Minmatar skill requirements.
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.06.23 00:39:00 - [56] Fleet tempest idea: make it a dedicated sniper ship, by adding a 50% damage bonus with with 50% slower rate of fire. So dps is kept same. Then at least we'll have 1 real alpha strike ship in game.
Ard UnjiiGo The Bastards	Posted - 2009.06.23 02:43:00 - [57] Ashimmu. The problem with this ship is obvious: It's too damn sexy to be this impossible to fit decently. Devs keep piping up asking for suggested changes. Just how hard is it too give this ship some grid and a tad more CPU? We're not talking major coding changes here.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.06.23 02:54:00 - [58] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 23/06/2009 02:56:03 I don't see why they all can't field a fully T2 setup without fitting mods. Very few standard T1 ships other than some of the battleships can do this, unless they sacrifice gun size or tank somewhere. Just giving the faction ships sufficient fitting stats would elevate many of them above their standard T1 counterparts while keeping them below T2 ships in effectiveness. However, I also think that the faction ships with the unusual bonuses (Blood Raiders, for instance) need to have these abilities boosted too, along with their fitting stats. All of the pirate faction ships should be at least a little better in their key area than Empire faction ships. I don't think that these are particularly radical changes, and if they were implemented the people currently flying these ships wouldn't have to cross-train into new skills to fit new ship bonuses since the core bonuses would stay within their existing skill tree paradigm. Quote: As per this thread, I'd like to see factions ships that require Amarr/Gallente or Caldari/Minmatar skill requirements. Oh yeah, and add EOM and Mordu ships. EOM obviously are Amarr/Gallente, being Amarr hulls that use blasters. Mordu are just like whatever. Mordu's also need agents in more than one station, and EOM agents would have to be seeded. Some backstory changes may be necessary to explain why EOM would even have agents in the first place.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.06.23 05:06:00 - [59] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 23/06/2009 05:11:44 Originally by: Xianthar Originally by: Malcanis store) or the puppy gets it. 4: split weapons are BAD Quoted for emphasis, 6+ years eve has been around, can't believe there are still ships with split weapon bonuses. QFT. Two general things that need to be done: 1) Fix the ships with split weapons, especially the utterly worthless faction frigates. 2) Fix the absurd fitting issues that many faction ships have. Far too many of them simply don't have enough grid/cpu to fit a proper PvP setup. Now then, the specific changes that are needed, to make all of the factions useful: Sanshas: fine as-is. Just give the Succubus more grid. Guristas: fix the crippling split weapons and give htem a full rack of missile hardpoints. Replace the bonuses with 5% ROF and 10% drone damage/HP, with a fixed bonus of 50% missile velocity. Alternatively, if that drone bonus would be too powerful, instead give 5/10/25mb bandwidth and 10/15/40m3 drone bay per level. Double rocket and light missile damage to bring the weapons up to the proper level, otherwise no amount of fixing the ships will make them useful. Serpentis: make them blaster Vagabonds. Change the slot layouts to allow a Vagabond-style shield + speed tank, with 5% ROF and 5% ship velocity per level, 37.5% tracking or 50% falloff fixed bonus. Blood: make them proper neut ships, like the Pilgrim. Swap the 10% laser cap bonus for 10% drone damage/HP per level, and give them a proper drone bay, then move some of the high slots to mid slots so they can properly use the web bonus. Angel: swap the tracking bonus for a warp scrambler range bonus on the Gallente skill, move a low slot or two to mids, give them the full number of turret hardpoints (4 on the Dramiel, 5 on the Cynabal, 8 on the Machariel), and give the Machariel some agility back (it's already by far the fastest battleship, and faster than some cruisers). -----------
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.06.23 05:13:00 - [60] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 23/06/2009 05:13:19 There's nothing wrong with the split weapon bonuses on the Gila and Rattlesnake in principle. The Worm needs some work but the other two are fine. You can choose whether you want a blaster ship or a missile ship and more choices is always better than less in this game. Maybe give each of them +1 of both hardpoints though, just to make them that much more effective. Gila also needs more fitting stats badly. A solid PvP setup sacrifices two lows for a grid and cpu mod.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.06.23 05:18:00 - [61] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 23/06/2009 05:13:19 There's nothing wrong with the split weapon bonuses on the Gila and Rattlesnake in principle. The Worm needs some work but the other two are fine. You can choose whether you want a blaster ship or a missile ship and more choices is always better than less in this game. Maybe give each of them +1 of both hardpoints though, just to make them that much more effective. Gila also needs more fitting stats badly. A solid PvP setup sacrifices two lows for a grid and cpu mod. Yes there is. No matter what you do, you simply can not make a proper setup on any of the Guristas ships that comes even close to the damage output of a Cerberus/CNR. Even with +1 hardpoint on the Gila (the Rattlesnake becomes a better CNR with +1 launcher, so I guess it would be fine), it's still going to be completely outclassed by the Cerberus or Eagle unless it gets a proper set of focused bonuses. -----------
Qarthy	Posted - 2009.06.23 05:41:00 - [62] 1.)Split systems are bad, so just stop doing it. This means Faction, Pirate and standard ships. Stop spliting systems on them. 2.)Too little Power/CPU. What the point in having extra slots if you don't have the grid or CPU to use it? 3.)Bonuses that make no sense. Why add extra CPU to a ship when it's base model has more then you could ever use? Why add extra damage to turrets when you only offer 2 hardpoints for them out of 6? 4.) Make the shipd more role specialist. Focus on adding bonuses to the ships that play to the primary strengths of the base model. The biggest problem I see with the ships in this game is the lack of focus on roles and making the ships fit them. P.S. Fix the damn forums. 8 log-ins to get this posted? Come the hell on already...
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.23 08:40:00 - [63] Serpentis: - drop the MWD Cap Bonus, add 25% base Cap - 15% falloff bonus per minmatar skill Level - increase speed and agility by 25%(after rigging there is mostly no advantage left) -> faster Blasterships with greatly increased combat range Angel - drop the weapon bonuses, go Marauder style with the Mach -> 5 guns + 100% Bonus - add 30-40% more speed/agility - make them all ST like sansha(swap Low/Meds) -> fare better for speed fittings - 10% Tracking(Gallente BS) and 10% Falloff Bonus(Minmatar BS) -> fastest ships around, even work with lots of speed mods because of the good base damage and tracking/falloff Bonus that supports fast out of web range combat Guristas: - add one Med, remove one Low - swap the hybrid damage bonus to 5% Drone damage and durability - increase Dronebay to 250m¦ with 125m¦ Bandwide -> hard tanking and hitting Missle platform with a very flexible Drone loadout
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.06.23 09:05:00 - [64] Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 23/06/2009 09:06:40 Originally by: eliminator2 now the Question is what would YOU like to see changed with these ships (no outrages remarks) this isn't a rant. i'll simply say that all of the faction ships need to be looked at. in the interest of seeing them actually used, for a competitive and livelier market of all of them they should likely be between t1 and t2 (t1.5), most people would agree with this. some think they should be better than t2, whatever. up to the devs i'm not just looking at those battleships, i'm speaking of the frigs and cruisers too. dramiel, gila (isn't TOO bad tbh) ashimmu etc ... like i said all of them. in some cases (like the gila, prob #1 for ashimmu) the ships just need some better fitting specs, but other ships (fleet tempest) are just not worth it. either debilitated by being clones to their standard t1 counterparts with no real niche in combat OR they are simply effected like every other ship w/ all the various existing balance issues. the rant part: i'm not going to give a run down of specifics, the developers should be able to figure that out themselves. if joe shmow can plot a 4 ship dps/range graph and log onto sisi, i pray to god the devs can too. anyway you look at it, hangar candy sucks. we want ships out there to fight and worth it to do so. not overpowered, just worth it. sometimes it seems it takes and act of god to get a balance issue addressed by ccp. I realize this isn't always the case, ccp can be johnny on the spot sometimes but look at faction ships.... how does something like this just sit here? it seems they have kept an overly complicated balance strategy when addressing specific ship to ship changes. you don't need to remake the wheel, use a small brush not a big one. example: the tempest. (i pick this because the 2 worst faction bs are tempests, mach and fleet pest). you know it kinda sucks (sure it has some niches) and it is so because of 9000 reasons. make a plan to address your active vs passive / dps / whatever! but for the short term make a subtle adjustment to the ship in question to address its immediate issue (and make it temporary). bang, happy customers. address faction ships, give a gun here, give some cpu there, a slot or two, a changed bonus and you may see dramiels sniping arty wolfs and ashimuus shutting down curses (or vice versa :P)
Alexeph Stoekai Stoekai Corp	Posted - 2009.06.23 09:27:00 - [65] Originally by: Thenoran You know Dune! If only they made something after Emperor... Back in the day, Dune II (later on Dune 2000)...such good memories... You do know that the PC games are not the original parts of the Dune franchise, right?
Mephesto Nizal	Posted - 2009.06.23 09:37:00 - [66] I like split weapons at times, but they need to get great empowerment to them both...especially with faction ships. The faction frigates could use some bonuses which have benefits even the assault frigates would love to have.
something somethingdark	Posted - 2009.06.23 09:58:00 - [67] paosting because of dev presence Frigates Dramiel 3 gun bonuses 2 gun mounts lolwut ... id also take another med looking at the daredevil Daredevil third gunmound and pg to fit ? Cruor does lots of things with very low cap something wich i recomend for all bloodraider ships is to switch bonuses to a 25% damage bonuse to projectiles or something similar Worm split damage is so last year as it is evident that ship bonuses can be completly arbitrary and the prequisits are there mostly for balance or storywise find something else for the gallente bonus ... after burner velocity ? hell you could even switch it over to a minmatar influenced bonus similar observations can be found with cruisers and battleships and introduce battlecruisers and introduce eoms
Frood	Posted - 2009.06.23 10:11:00 - [68] Two Words: Infested Dominix.
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:24:00 - [69] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Just popping here to express my interest in this thread. Please keep the ideas and discussion going, the spice must flow. All your thoughts are belong to us. The dev is a lie. Over 9042. Engage. Short list: 1: split weapons are bad, m'kay? 2: Faction frigates and cruisers are waaaaay too expensive from the LP stores 3: Give us an EoM NPC sov region (and LP store) or the puppy gets it. 4: split weapons are BAD 5: most of the faction frigates and cruisers need better fittings (CPU & PG) Pretty much this.
Rachel Silverside Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:27:00 - [70] the ibis it needs to be able to fit a dd -------------------- This sig was awesome but needs more EvE related content. - Zymurgist
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:51:00 - [71] Let's see where the faction ships could be put stats wise with keeping an eye on the background, too. The navies can't use that many T2 ships due to a lack of capsuleers and as such the navy ships are the closest they can get while still supporting a mortal crew. So giving them three skill bonuses and some extra stats/fitting/slots would be appropriate as long as the skill bonuses are on T1 kind and level. Pirate factions neither have the capsuleers nor the vast resources for proper T2 ships but they have usually some kind of technological advantage that put them in place as a significant faction to begin with. So while empire ships may be T1.5, pirate faction ships would be T1.75. So while having three bonuses with one being a fixed x5 bonus, they may also get bonuses usually used in T2 ships. Also their mixed heritage allows for creative combination of bonuses used in different factions. Though one should not stay fixed on using them in ways that empire factions would use them as that would just dilute the unique nature of pirate factions. While some of the ideas so far are interesting, some others are just overpowered while others break with the nature of what the pirate faction represents and the way they would be using the ships. I'll be going through pirate faction ships only right now as I have already addressed empire navy ships in my other thread. Blood Raiders Since they are using cap warfare mostly I think they really don't need the 50% energy weapon capacitor use bonus as they can just use a energy vampire to counterbalance a low cap. Instead they should gain a 100% range bonus on vampires and destabilizers allowing a better application of their main offensive modules. Cruor: It needs another mid slot for the webifier really, moving one low slot there should do. Also a 10% powergrid increase would be needed to allow fitting of cap warfare mods, lasers and propulsion without heavily relying on fitting modules. Also it may be worth considering to add another turret hardpoint to it as the two it currently has don't add up to any firepower worth considering. Ashimmu: It needs at least 10% more powergrid, more towards 15% really, to allow any kind of fitting without filling the lows with reactor controls. Even then it'd probably need one to be able to fit any kind of additional armor plating or repair module. One may consider some small dronebay with 15-25 Mbit/sec bandwidth to increase versatility a bit and to balance out the reduced web effectiveness when combating frigates. Bhaalgorn: All this one needs would be some 5-10% more CPU and it'd be the beast the description displays it as. It may not be any good in the DPS department but it'll last in a battle and with the increased range on heavy neutralizers, it'd be a source of misery for anything needing capacitor. One may consider increasing the drone bay and bandwidth to 125, though that may be pushing it. Serpentis General problem I see with the Serpentis ships is that they are rather unremarkable in their bonuses. They only have T1 bonuses and as such resemble simply beefed up T1 ships. The MWD cap bonus is cut short by their lifetime when their signature radius lights up. Adding a 7.5% reduction of MWD signature radius penalty to the Minmatar skill bonus would make them not only more survivable but also more distinguished from their T1 counterparts. Also one may consider a role bonus for smuggling contraband. Daredevil: This one suffers from a severe lack of fitting. 10% to both powergrid and CPU would be required to bring it to a manageable level. Also one may consider removing one or both launcher hardpoints and replacing them with one or two turrets and/or a larger drone bay. Vigilant: With 5-10% more powergrid this ship would become a solid blaster platform. Not much else would be required really. continued -------- Ideas for: Mining
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:52:00 - [72] Vindicator: The lack of CPU basically cripples this ship. It needs at least 10% more, good would be 15%. Also a 5% increase in powergrid may be needed for a solid fit but CPU is the main issue here. Apart from that, it's solid. Angels There is a little inconsistency in the bonuses in that the Dramiel gets a 25% damage bonus instead of a RoF bonus they should all have a RoF bonus as alpha is no longer of significance anyway. Due to the usually mixed weapons the leveled damage bonus should be increased from 5% to 7.5% so that the mixed hardpoints will balance out on the turret side. This would also increase versatility as the launchers can then be removed for utility highslots without crippling the damage output. Dramiel It could use three turrets, though I am not sure if there is a way to add one to the model without mutilating the aesthetics. Though with the increased damage bonus it has effective three turrets and launchers which would put it more into the intended purpose of a combat frigate. Cynabal What this one needs is more powergrid to bring it on the level of the Rupture, so around 10-15% more. Also moving a low slot to medium to allow an alternative shield tank would be good. Angel NPCs are all shield tanks, so adjusting slot a bit in that direction makes sense. Also, med slots are needed for ewar in PvP and three of them is more Amarr level and not Minmatar/Gallente. Machariel: With the bonus changes to the turret damage bonus the mixed layout will do fine. One thing lacking though is the CPU and a increase in 5-10% in it would fix that. Other than that, it's actually quite a beast. Guristas Guristas mainly suffer from their split weapon systems and there was a whole thread about it in the Game Development Forum. My proposition would be to make them into faction combat ECM boats a bit similar to the Rook. This would also fit to the way Guristas NPCs behave, spamming missiles and jamming all the time. Also the names of the ships indicate something intrusive and venomous as does the description of the Worm as a ship with increased ewar capabilities. To this end, I would replace the velocity bonus with a 100% ECM jam strength bonus and the hybrid damage bonus can be replaced with a 5% explosion velocity bonus for all kinds of missiles to add a proper T2 bonus to them. Changes in the fittings will be dealt with individually. Worm: It will gain one more launcher and the turrets can be dropped. To be able to fit the ewar it will need more CPU, 10-15% should be enough. Also a low slot may be moved to medium in order to make more room for ECM mods. Gila: A 5th launcher can be added and/or the drone bay increased from 15 to 25 m3, turrets can be reduced by 2 then. CPU will also need a boost of 10-15% to fit the ewar and for some kind of buffer, a low slot should be moved to medium.A slight increase of powergrid by 5% may be necessary to make the launchers fit with a functioning shield tank. Rattlesnake: It can keep the 6 launchers, drop two turrets and a move one high slot to medium but increase the drone bay and bandwidth to 125. A low slot can be moved to medium to a total of 8 medium slots for ewar and tank. Fitting would only need an increase of 5-10% CPU to cater to the need of ECM modules. Sansha The Sansha ships already got a boost to make them really good ships worth their price. Only the NPCs need to be adapted to those changes and the faction/deadspace modules need to be switched accordingly. Other A Rogue Drone Faction would be a endeavor all on its own, requiring some major storyline development and world shaping, though with recent developments in that area, it is not all that unlikely to achieve. Equilibrium of Mankind could be seeded through EVE wide faction spawns (replacing a regional spawn when it happens) and exploration sites. -------- Ideas for: Mining
gfldex Kabelkopp	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:54:00 - [73] Replace the tracking bonus to a MWD speed bonus on the Mach and change the MWD cap bonus on the Vidni to a speed bonus aswell. Rethink the slot layout of both ships. From a jove design one would expect 8 lowslots and since damps are worthless that extra med slot for the Vindi doesn't make sense anymore.
Ptarmigent Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.23 14:14:00 - [74] Originally by: Kiri Serrensun The honest answer is "most of them". Like a lot of stuff (COSMOS items, for example), they were made mostly redundant after tech 2 versions came along. Right now, faction frigates and cruisers don't really have any practical use--flying them in PVP only makes everyone remember how to focus fire, and they're not useful for level 4 missions. So they're mainly useful as status symbols. Err ... Cosmos was well after tech2 appeared surely? You're right though ; they're missing their niche. CCP clearly put a lot of effort into designing the new hulls for the bloodraiders, sanshas and faction frigates - its a shame they don't get used. When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
Shintai Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io	Posted - 2009.06.23 14:19:00 - [75] Looking at BSes alone. Then Bhaal and Nightmare seems to be the only good ones. Specially Vindicator and Rattlesnake lacks. And Mach is somewhere in between the 2 groups.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:15:00 - [76] Leave the Rattlesnake alone if you can't propose a change that doesn't screw it up. :( Fly a damn Widow if you want an expensive ecm battleship. I like the fact the Rattlesnake was different, I never really did think "ecm" and "battleship" went together very well.
MuffinsRevenger EmpiresMod	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:27:00 - [77] I'ma slap a gigantic SIGNED! on the whole "all of em but sansha kk?", and add a "Omen needs powergrid to become usefull, fix plox"
Opan santel Gallente U.N.I.O.N B.E.N.E.L.U.X	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:29:00 - [78] and btw, why is the nightmare the only faction battleship (Sansha's) that recieved the 100% damage bonus in the first place, give it 25% add some tracking and ROF and voila its in line with the other faction ships, lol! its pathetic the way the others perform next to the nightmare, or am i missing an point here that i overlooked?
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:34:00 - [79] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 23/06/2009 05:11:44 Originally by: Xianthar Originally by: Malcanis store) or the puppy gets it. 4: split weapons are BAD Quoted for emphasis, 6+ years eve has been around, can't believe there are still ships with split weapon bonuses. QFT. Two general things that need to be done: 1) Fix the ships with split weapons, especially the utterly worthless faction frigates. 2) Fix the absurd fitting issues that many faction ships have. Far too many of them simply don't have enough grid/cpu to fit a proper PvP setup. Now then, the specific changes that are needed, to make all of the factions useful: Sanshas: fine as-is. Just give the Succubus more grid. Guristas: fix the crippling split weapons and give htem a full rack of missile hardpoints. Replace the bonuses with 5% ROF and 10% drone damage/HP, with a fixed bonus of 50% missile velocity. Alternatively, if that drone bonus would be too powerful, instead give 5/10/25mb bandwidth and 10/15/40m3 drone bay per level. Double rocket and light missile damage to bring the weapons up to the proper level, otherwise no amount of fixing the ships will make them useful. Serpentis: make them blaster Vagabonds. Change the slot layouts to allow a Vagabond-style shield + speed tank, with 5% ROF and 5% ship velocity per level, 37.5% tracking or 50% falloff fixed bonus. Blood: make them proper neut ships, like the Pilgrim. Swap the 10% laser cap bonus for 10% drone damage/HP per level, and give them a proper drone bay, then move some of the high slots to mid slots so they can properly use the web bonus. Angel: swap the tracking bonus for a warp scrambler range bonus on the Gallente skill, move a low slot or two to mids, give them the full number of turret hardpoints (4 on the Dramiel, 5 on the Cynabal, 8 on the Machariel), and give the Machariel some agility back (it's already by far the fastest battleship, and faster than some cruisers). This has my definite support.
Opan santel Gallente U.N.I.O.N B.E.N.E.L.U.X	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:55:00 - [80] ^^ looks good, except for the serpentis one, who needs an vagabond if you can actually get an vagabond that does over 3k m/s and i cant imagine how it would be like for the bs, an slow bulking mega hull flying over 2k m/s.. meh id rather not.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.23 21:57:00 - [81] Originally by: Opan santel ^^ looks good, except for the serpentis one, who needs an vagabond if you can actually get an vagabond that does over 3k m/s and i cant imagine how it would be like for the bs, an slow bulking mega hull flying over 2k m/s.. meh id rather not. There was a time where the Vidi was 1600m/s+ without any speed mods/rigs and there where some that was a lot faster during the age of the first nano BS. Not saying it has to be like this again but a 1250 m/s(around the mark of the Mega before QR) would be quite reasonable to represent a "faster" Blastership(it is a bit faster than the current Brutix and this ship is a brick to, for a Blastership).
eliminator2 Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.24 08:13:00 - [82] Originally by: Frood Two Words: Infested Dominix. yea iv allways wanted to see one off these :D
eliminator2 Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.24 08:19:00 - [83] abrazzar copy/paste all that in the features forum and ill support there the best thought out and laydout iv ever seen for them sounds awsome and will fix them all :D ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :) i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise
Malena Panic Gallente Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.06.24 15:32:00 - [84] My suggestion is more conceptual than specific: Rather than redress the split weapons systems, it would be nice if these remained as a characteristic feature of 'hybrid' pirate ship designs. Instead, let's recognize that faction ships will draw a lot of attention in PvP, and instead alter their bonuses to tanking and survivability. In addition to near-HAC resists, some faction vessels can be given race-specific defensive bonuses, such as sig-reduction bonuses for Angel ships or additional passive resist bonuses for Sanshas. This would improve the viability of these classic ships as well as create additional interesting tactical dilemmas. ... Stealth Bomber changes: a SERIOUS LEGAL ISSUE
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:31:00 - [85] Originally by: Malena Panic My suggestion is more conceptual than specific: Rather than redress the split weapons systems, it would be nice if these remained as a characteristic feature of 'hybrid' pirate ship designs. Instead, let's recognize that faction ships will draw a lot of attention in PvP, and instead alter their bonuses to tanking and survivability. In addition to near-HAC resists, some faction vessels can be given race-specific defensive bonuses, such as sig-reduction bonuses for Angel ships or additional passive resist bonuses for Sanshas. This would improve the viability of these classic ships as well as create additional interesting tactical dilemmas. No, it would not. If the ships lacks offence, and got a shabby split weapon systems its a preetty uselss ship. In the same way a passive drake is useless for PvP (note: I said passive, not buffer). Spilt weapons is usually not a good idea, and its the main reason the merlin, gallente comet, hookbill suck.
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:33:00 - [86] Originally by: Abrazzar So giving them three skill bonuses and some extra stats/fitting/slots would be appropriate as long as the skill bonuses are on T1 kind and level. I kind of like the usual two skill bonuses and "special ability" or role bonus. Otherwise fine ideas except the ecm guristas thingie which is pretty sad. Also don't forget to add CPU to frigates (t1 too)! (In comparison check out the awesome-o cpu amount of succubus, staggering 50cpu more than most of the faction frigates.)
KiloAlpha Southern Cross Trilogy	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:44:00 - [87] i dont have much experience with faction ships aside from the stabber fleet issue(which is made of win) but from what i have seen many have no role that is not done just as well or better by a cheaper ship. example cynobal http://kbsce.eve-sci.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=24264 compared to a normal stabber http://kb.eve-sci.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=24414 lol common i know it was a gank but **** a 100 mil isk armor tanked cruiser should have more than 1300 more effective hp than a t1 fit suicide stabber
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:46:00 - [88] I want a ORE mining barge! Trinity Corporate Services
Malena Panic Gallente Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.06.24 17:07:00 - [89] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Originally by: Malena Panic let's recognize that faction ships will draw a lot of attention in PvP, and instead alter their bonuses to tanking and survivability. This would improve the viability of these classic ships as well as create additional interesting tactical dilemmas. No, it would not. Yes, it would. There are many ships whose tanking ability in PvP exceeds their damage output. Passive Drakes suck in PvP because not only can't they do damage, they can't do anything else, either. I like the idea of split weapons systems because it underscores the hybrid nature of these ships. Rather than make them HAC-lites, I'd like to see them occupy a different niche. Perhaps what's needed (as was mentioned up-thread) is a further emphasis on secondary racial Ewar. However I'd like to see these ships improved without reducing them to the same vanilla boats as we already have.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.06.24 17:14:00 - [90] The lack of faction shuttles disturbs me. That is all.
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.06.24 17:18:00 - [91] Originally by: Crackzilla The lack of faction shuttles disturbs me. That is all. There are several faction shuttles, they just all have the same stats - apparently CCP is too concerned with balance of shuttles
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.06.24 17:23:00 - [92] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: Crackzilla The lack of faction shuttles disturbs me. That is all. There are several faction shuttles, they just all have the same stats - apparently CCP is too concerned with balance of shuttles The Guristas Shuttle actually has fewer HPs than the others But to my knowledge apart from the standard shuttles only the Guristas Shuttle, Apotheosis, and Interbus Shuttle are obtainable by players even though the database lists a number of other shuttle types.
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.24 17:30:00 - [93] Just a quick two cents, but since the Rattlesnake is built on the Scorpion model, why not drop the missile bonus and go for rails boni? We've got plenty of missile boats already, and a faction Caldari railboat might change some things up. Gurista NPC Rattlesnakes already sport a ton of turrets. You can mix some EWAR in if you're feeling adventurous, but otherwise you could consider a lighter, but slightly harder-hitting version of the Rokh. (Less tank, more gank. )
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.06.24 17:35:00 - [94] Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai Originally by: Thenoran You know Dune! If only they made something after Emperor... Back in the day, Dune II (later on Dune 2000)...such good memories... You do know that the PC games are not the original parts of the Dune franchise, right? lol I am genuinely afraid that someone thinks Dune is from a video game.
AlcoJaguar Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.24 17:40:00 - [95] With respect to the suggestion of making the Scorpion a rail boat, that wouldn't be a bad idea at all. However, I'm generally... unhappy with the performance of railguns compared to similar weapons in the Gunnery tree (e.g., maybe it's just me but I can't seem to even come close to the damage output in a Rokh fit with 8x 425mm Railgun II's that one of my friends that just cross trained from Gallente into Amarr battleships because of the railgun low damage output with rails can get with large lasers). I don't mind a lower yield weapon, I just wish that the T2 versions didn't require the same dedication to training as the higher yield T2 weapons like lasers and artillery that do substantially more damage in my experience. Disclaimer: I use missiles mostly
Awesome Possum Insert Obscure Latin Name	Posted - 2009.06.24 17:41:00 - [96] I demand the GFPD be put back on the Comet. Also, I'd like faction ships to be insurable for some fraction of their worth. A navy comet BP costs 30k lp / 10mill in the LP store, ship costs 80k LP (even at 250 isk/lp, that's 20mill).
Commander Yassir Perkone	Posted - 2009.06.24 17:46:00 - [97] Make them like the Nightmare? Perhaps just low skills intensive marauders? (Battleships this is) Split weapons systems ARE BAD
Commander Yassir Perkone	Posted - 2009.06.24 17:47:00 - [98] Originally by: Regat Kozovv Just a quick two cents, but since the Rattlesnake is built on the Scorpion model, why not drop the missile bonus and go for rails boni? We've got plenty of missile boats already, and a faction Caldari railboat might change some things up. Gurista NPC Rattlesnakes already sport a ton of turrets. You can mix some EWAR in if you're feeling adventurous, but otherwise you could consider a lighter, but slightly harder-hitting version of the Rokh. (Less tank, more gank. ) I want my faction Rokh, NOW!
Sharp Feather Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.06.24 18:10:00 - [99] Edited by: Sharp Feather on 24/06/2009 18:13:29 LONG STORY SHORT: Split weapons are bad. Need more CPU and PG on every ships. Split weapons are bad. Logical bonus (Minmatar: speed / Gallente: turret damage / Amaar: Cap / Caldari: Missile damage) Split weapons are bad. You want to make ships that can use split weapons? No problem. But make them 8/8. So we dont have to endure the obligued weapon splitting but make our own choices. EDIT: Ah yeah, and I want an infested dominix that have no guns slots, 6 high slots, but can fit drone control unit modules to allow more drones in space. Thanks!
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.06.24 18:17:00 - [100] Turning Guristas into gunships is actually simple. No need to change much, just throw out the launchers, give them a full rack of turret hardpoints and change the missile velocity bonus to optimal range and the missile RoF to hybrid RoF. May need to add some more powergrid (and the general CPU issue) to make them fit. It'd make them a bit boring but effective. Or you could go a bit exotic and make them turret snipers. +50% optimal, Caldari skill multiplies cloaked speed by 125% and Gallente skill adds 5% hybrid damage. Role bonus would be -100% targeting delay after decloaking. Turret hardpoints would be 3/5/7 with 4/6/8 highslots. Hunting Rabbits with a twist. BOOM "Bunny shot me!" -------- Ideas for: Mining
Zeerover DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations	Posted - 2009.06.24 18:55:00 - [101] Originally by: Regat Kozovv We've got plenty of missile boats already, and a faction Caldari railboat might change some things up. ) Plenty of missile boats? We have 2 faction battleships that are missile boats. The Rattlesnake and the CNR. On the other hand you have 3 hybrid gunboats: Navy Mega & Vindicator, and currently split weapon Rattlesnake (if it counts as a missile boat at present, it also counts as a hybrid boat). Now if you change the Rattler to a pure hybrid gunboat gun boat you'll leave missile users with only the CNR to pin their hopes on. Does plenty mean 1 all of a sudden?
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.24 19:12:00 - [102] Edited by: Regat Kozovv on 24/06/2009 19:15:17 Originally by: Zeerover Originally by: Regat Kozovv We've got plenty of missile boats already, and a faction Caldari railboat might change some things up. ) Plenty of missile boats? We have 2 faction battleships that are missile boats. The Rattlesnake and the CNR. Sorry, I was referring to the Caldari in general. But yes, I still think the Rattlesnake should become a railboat. No defensive bonuses, Perhaps 6-7 turret slots, 25% rate of fire bonus (Ship) and then a 5% Range (Caldari) and 5% Damage (Gallente) bonus. While that does mean that yes, we'll have more hybrid ships that missile ships (note I said Hybrid, not rail. =), I think most will agree the CNR is just fine as is, and we'll have a pirate rail option for the Caldari side. The Vindicator seems to be more of an intended blaster platform with the MWD and tracking bonus, so I don't think the party is getting too crowded, yet. Stealth Edit: I should have clarified to state that hybrid includes both rail guns and blasters. So having three hybrid ships does not necessary mean the field is crowded since they have very different tactics for both.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.06.24 19:15:00 - [103] Originally by: Dirk Magnum apart from the standard shuttles only the Guristas Shuttle, Apotheosis, and Interbus Shuttle are obtainable Don't forget the other cosmos item, Goru's Shuttle.
Phil Exon Gallente Ixion Defence Systems Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.06.24 19:28:00 - [104] bring back the nano-mach, it was such a good role for it, only the capabable, the rich and the ballsy could fly them
Gin G Halls Of Valhalla	Posted - 2009.06.24 19:56:00 - [105] Edited by: Gin G on 24/06/2009 20:01:17 The Bhaalgorn is fine except for maybe some more cpu and must not be changed if ccp dne i will come to ccp HQ with a hockey mask and a chainsaw and let me tell you you WONT be playing any more ping pong or foolsball the ashimu or however you spell it needs IMO a drone bay a damage bonus instead of a cap bonus and some more grid/cpu the mach well i agree with the OP nightmare is fine it dose its job well rattler please PLEASE give these things a shield rep bonus so idiots dont treat them like a bog drake and try to passive tank them with 7 SPRs in the lows its just a waste and brings a tear to my eye vindy never had so no comment ************ are you getting your 5 a day.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.06.24 19:59:00 - [106] Change all the serpentis ships into top of the line drone boats with some mwd built into it. All the guristas should be a heavy attack cloaker ships which would be untraditional to most other stealth ships now if this is to be all missile attack or all gun attack make the changes to make them worthy of dishing out damage in short amount of time. Angel ships wouldnt hurt to have doubled magazine sizes and rof, keep thier speed and agility and possibly slpit weapons. sansha are fine or a possible fix all 4 rigs to all faction ships increased calibration 2 bonuses per racial skill involved. Re-balanced fittings to easily squeeze into the peferred performance mark. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25MAY09
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released	Posted - 2009.06.24 22:28:00 - [107] Originally by: ArmyOfMe sadly the machariel is what the tempest should be Agreed the Gallente tracking bonus makes up for the problems with projectiles and makes the Mach what the tempest should be like now. For the Mach itself I wouldn't mind seeing a marauder type bonus for damage of 100% and only have 4 Turret slots but then that's kind of just ripping off the Nightmare I suppose.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.24 22:38:00 - [108] I'd like to see the Nightmare as useful as it is pretty. The split weapon loadout and it simply doesn't have a a decent damage output. I'd also suggest giving the CNR an 8th launcher slot as it currently lags behind a Golem and Rattler and in too many areas. Make it into a massive damage boat.
Akiba Penrose	Posted - 2009.06.24 22:42:00 - [109] Firetail need another mid slot. Speed & web nerf turned this frigate from one of the best dogfighters to one of the worst. The Rifter is a better choise now. An extra mid slot would go a long way in fixing it. Please?
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.06.24 22:52:00 - [110] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Just popping here to express my interest in this thread. Please keep the ideas and discussion going, the spice must flow. All your thoughts are belong to us. The dev is a lie. Over 9042. Engage. Short list: 1: split weapons are bad, m'kay? 2: Faction frigates and cruisers are waaaaay too expensive from the LP stores 3: Give us an EoM NPC sov region (and LP store) or the puppy gets it. 4: split weapons are BAD 5: most of the faction frigates and cruisers need better fittings (CPU & PG) I really wish I could add anything of value to this thread, but Malcanis already said everything I would've said. I would, however, like to add that SPLIT WEAPONS ARE BAD. tia CCP~
Milo Caman Gallente Ghost Festival	Posted - 2009.06.24 23:02:00 - [111] Comet needs some serious lovin' All I can really see it as is a Tristan with an extra Low. Give it 2 More Blasters, or a tank bonus and I'm happy.
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.25 00:26:00 - [112] Originally by: Malcanis Short list: 1: split weapons are bad, m'kay? 2: Faction frigates and cruisers are waaaaay too expensive from the LP stores 3: Give us an EoM NPC sov region (and LP store) or the puppy gets it. 4: split weapons are BAD 5: most of the faction frigates and cruisers need better fittings (CPU & PG) This is an excellent list of what problems there are. Who exactly designed faction frigates anyway? Were they high? EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has the same high slot layout - 2 missiles, 2 launchers, except the angel one. Which is worse, because it has projectile bonuses but has 2 guns, and 3 launchers. Fittings are way too restrictive. Why get these with fittings like this - what are you paying for? Serpentis blaster ships need to have mass reduced so they get into range FAST and then boost their fittings so it's easy to put a mean blaster fit on their boat. Guristas ships really don't have a useful role. You can fit them either as gunships or missile ships, but they don't excel totally as either. Ever consider going fully guns, with optimal range, damage, and tracking (8 guns on rattlesnake)? Blood Raider ships - bonuses are fine, amounts suck. Web range is too short. Sansha ships are the only ones that really need nothing, because they were totally redone at one point and therefore fixed. Navy ships need something to differentiate themselves from the T1 ships in the arsenal. Some have this (Navy Raven) and some don't (Comet). That also needs fixing. And fix your forum so that it actually works if you don't use internet explorer. Something with cookies is horribly broken and it requires logging in and mashing the post button in less than 5 seconds or it autologs you out again, very annoying. Did I mention that having to have 2 browsers on your PC to use the forums is annoying?
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.06.25 00:37:00 - [113] Originally by: QwaarJet I'd like to see the Nightmare as useful as it is pretty. The split weapon loadout and it simply doesn't have a a decent damage output. I'd also suggest giving the CNR an 8th launcher slot as it currently lags behind a Golem and Rattler and in too many areas. Make it into a massive damage boat. the split weapon system was removed from the nightmare 18 months or so ago, it now has 4 turrets and 100% damage bonus like a marauder
Ghost Hunter Naqam	Posted - 2009.06.25 01:12:00 - [114] Edited by: Ghost Hunter on 25/06/2009 01:12:57 Throwing this out there, but the Blood Raider ships could get a special bonus to Nos so that it behaves pre-change. That is, Nos equipped to Blood Raider ships allows them to constantly drain cap, even past the level off point (what it is currently). This would give them their own little unique flair and not directly interfere with the Sentinel/Curse (which are Neut based). It may not go the entire way of fixing them, but it would help give them their design specialty back. At the same time, offer different options than the Sentinel/Curse line up. Edit; Unrelated to the above suggestion, I for one actually like Split Weapon ships.
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.06.25 02:31:00 - [115] Just popping in to add my two ISK: When we discuss faction ships, we need to make a distinction between pirate and empire boats, primarily due to cost. Contrary to the OP, I think BS are the least useless faction boats, although they are less prominent since Marauders hit the scene ... especially the empire BS which are currently half the price. If anything, frigs and the plethora of cruisers need a look at. Making all faction ships Sansha-esque is an option, but I think the biggest problem is the cost. These ships need a role that current T2 boats don't already fill, or they need to have their cost reduced drastically.
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Horizon Corp.	Posted - 2009.06.25 05:06:00 - [116] Originally by: Ephemeron Fleet tempest idea: make it a dedicated sniper ship, by adding a 50% damage bonus with with 50% slower rate of fire. So dps is kept same. Then at least we'll have 1 real alpha strike ship in game. Maths fail. 100% damage bonus, 50% cut in ROF. Originally by: Opan santel and btw, why is the nightmare the only faction battleship (Sansha's) that recieved the 100% damage bonus in the first place, give it 25% add some tracking and ROF and voila its in line with the other faction ships, lol! its pathetic the way the others perform next to the nightmare, or am i missing an point here that i overlooked? It only has 4 turrets, like a Marauder. This was changed a while back. Essentially, it has 8 turrets without a damage bonus, plus some utility highslots. Originally by: Malena Panic My suggestion is more conceptual than specific: Rather than redress the split weapons systems, it would be nice if these remained as a characteristic feature of 'hybrid' pirate ship designs. Instead, let's recognize that faction ships will draw a lot of attention in PvP, and instead alter their bonuses to tanking and survivability. In addition to near-HAC resists, some faction vessels can be given race-specific defensive bonuses, such as sig-reduction bonuses for Angel ships or additional passive resist bonuses for Sanshas. This would improve the viability of these classic ships as well as create additional interesting tactical dilemmas. Ugh, resist bonuses are FAR better than a sig reduction bonus in most cases. Resist bonuses improve local tank, buffer tank, remote support tank etc, all applicable in small and large engagement. Sig reduction is extremely situational and mostly pointless for the bigger ships, and completely worthless in fleet engagements. The Machariel is my favourite ship, and I'd like to see it get an extra turret slot. However, it already doesn't have the most generous PG if you try to armor tank it, even though with that many lows and armor tank is not unreasonable. Minmatar ships in general bug me as they always seem to have ambivalent shield/armor stats. Surely if you want a ship to utilise a particular tank, that's where you want most of the points to sit. The Machariel's bonuses are all projectile-oriented, so this ship is meant to be turret gank. I wouldn't mind to see it get some of the speed back that it lost in the last nerf, but if it were given something else that wouldn't necessarily be bad. Maybe a MWD or AB cycle time increase? Back to the Minmatar tank-ambiguity for a minute though, comparing a Tempest, Raven and Armageddon: Shield Tempest: 6954 Raven: 7500 Armageddon: 6211 Armor Tempest: 6,211 Raven: 6641 Armageddon: 7500 Total Tempest: 13165 Raven: 14141 Armageddon: 13711 Tempest has worse shield than a raven, worse armor than a raven and an armageddon, and the worst total tank (not counting structure) of all 3. I guess with 2 armor races (Amarr and Gallente) and one purely shield race (Caldari) it isn't in theory that weird to have a race that can go either way (where is backdoor bandit these days anyway?!?) but in practice, instead of versatility, it creates weakness much like the split weapon systems. Whoa. I hadn't really intended to cross over to normal battleships. But this still applies to pirate BSs too. Shield Vindicator: 8695 Rattlesnake: 12750 (wow) Machariel: 9735 Nightmare: 9298 Armor Vindicator: 9,298 Rattlesnake: 9,298 Machariel: 8,695 Nightmare: 8,695 Total Vindicator: 17993 Rattlesnake: 22048 Machariel: 18430 Nightmare: 17993 None of the ships show any particular affinity for armor over shield except the Rattlesnake which has a huge native pile of shield. Some dev's pet project? All in all I think the diversity which was designed into these ships with the best intentions hasn't always worked out too well. Many inventive bonuses are just straight out not as good as others, leading to "better" and "worse" ships when they were just meant to be different.
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.06.25 06:26:00 - [117] Originally by: Nadarius Chrome Originally by: Ephemeron Fleet tempest idea: make it a dedicated sniper ship, by adding a 50% damage bonus with with 50% slower rate of fire. So dps is kept same. Then at least we'll have 1 real alpha strike ship in game. Maths fail. 100% damage bonus, 50% cut in ROF. Wrong, EVE measures ROF as seconds per shot, not shots per second. Increasing both stats by X% cancels out the difference.
Yon Krum The Knights Templar Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.25 06:56:00 - [118] 1) Split weapons are BAD! Or at least, ships that are supposed to use split weapons are bad... see Naglfar fix. Extra non-bonused turrets/hardpoints are nice, but extra. If a faction needs to use both guns and missiles, make that clear if differences in tiers of ships (frig/cruiser/BS), not the ships themselves! 2) Fix fitting issues in light of #1, above. Faction ships should be able to fit at least decently with T2 equipment. Additionally: 3) Mach needs more speed/agility as it had before (maybe not going 7km/sec, but at least turning on a dime...). 4) Serpentis ships need some defining characteristic different from Gallente's standard line. 5) Gursistas ships should combine close-range drones and missiles and shields--this is an unfilled niche. Oh, and active tanking, not passive! 6) Blood Raider ships should get damage bonuses to lasers, not cap-reduction bonuses. In other words, hit-and-run gank boats, neuting their targets or sustaining themselves off their enemy's cap (which requires running down your OWN cap... with lasers). 7) Need Rogue Drone faction ships--faction drone BPCs are very meh and the drones themselves are very easily lost (drones are disposable, y0). 8) Need EOM ships, especially the black Apoc! These guys can have the faction ships with laser cap use reduction bonuses.... (Gallente-Amarr bonuses?) 9) Sisters of Eve ships, at least up to cruiser-sized. 10) Mordu's legion ships (Caldari-Minmatar). Probably combining speed and missiles, plus considerable shield technology. 11) Faction capitals... mostly because I'd die to see the Sansha version of a Cylon baseship! --Krum --Krum
abrasive soap Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.25 08:01:00 - [119] Why does the cruor have a web bonus with 2 midslots Why does the ashimmu lack so much powergrid All of the faction frigates terrible, possibly with the exception of the succubus The vindicator is pretty mediocre and could use something to make it special The vigilant is alright but very unimpressive The cynabal and machariel are both terrible since the nano nerf and are equal to or worse than their tech 1 counterparts (rupture and tempest...) The gila and rattlesnake need to be focused on missiles instead of split between missiles and hybrids Pretty much all of the above ships that aren't sansha or serpentis seriously lack pg/cpu
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.06.25 09:07:00 - [120] As pirate ships are already quite well covered I would like to grab the opportunity to express my disappointment towards navy cruisers. Especially Navy Osprey. It's cool for lolkillmails (ie 'hehee you were killed by osprey') but it's initial role was HAM nanocruiser, but with speed changes it ended up lacking in my opinion. Can't comment on other navy 'new' cruisers as I don't have flying experience with them. When the new cruisers were coming out someone (Might have been Chronotis) stated that CCP is planning to make cruisers and frigates cheaper in LP store and only reason why new cruisers ended up so expencive was the price of exsiting navy ships. That was over a year ago if I remeber correct.
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.25 09:51:00 - [121] This thread worries me somewhat as everyone seems to be in agreement that Nightmare (and the other Sansha ships) are either just fine or awesome (I'm in the "awesome" camp) and therefore it'd probably be easier to nerf them than fix everything else. Please don't touch the Nightmare!
NeoTheo Dark Materials Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.06.25 10:50:00 - [122] id like to see the whole guristas line sorted out, blasters or missiles, not both. Dark Materials
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.06.25 11:26:00 - [123] Originally by: Durzel This thread worries me somewhat as everyone seems to be in agreement that Nightmare (and the other Sansha ships) are either just fine or awesome (I'm in the "awesome" camp) and therefore it'd probably be easier to nerf them than fix everything else. Please don't touch the Nightmare! It is unlikely that anybody would go for Nightmare directly. People who fly one have no problems switching over to Paladin at the blink of an eye. Nightmare is example how pirate faction ship should be done. Afterall it's not that uber if you lack AWU 5 and/or rest of the support skills at 5. Hell - I went for it at 60 mil SP (and I don't do capitals on this char) and still had to drop approx 5 mil SP extra in few key skills I had overlooked before. Had max skills for Golem when I went for it. It is uber if you have max skills and few extra bil to drop on it to make it so. I am now at approx 73 mil SP and it's starting to really perform at last. Setup and hardwires still need some extra love from me. It might get hit ofc if something changes with lasers, altho lasers are also relatively ok currently. Now other pirate battleships. They do not do that good. Mainly those what were 'tank' flavor before marauders. There is no real reason to fly Rattlesnake over Golem (other than it's uber looks) for example as they are both 'Tank' versions of Raven and Golem does it better for same price. Same can be stated to degree for some other faction battleships, as many of them are nowdays outclassed my marauders while having similar pricetag. I suspect many of them are flown only bcos they just have awesome looks and it's 'cooler' to be in killmail with pirate faction battleship than with marauder. Especially considering the last changes in ECM area making it to a degree less common on battlefields.
Opan santel Gallente U.N.I.O.N B.E.N.E.L.U.X	Posted - 2009.06.25 12:04:00 - [124] Yea, i love my rattlesnake... just for looksie, i'd rather have a nightmare atm since its buff, but i hate the looks of the thing. ( aint i a picky one ) and generally i would say "rattlesnake is fine etc etc" same with other faction ships, but since the nightmare thingy and marauders they are outclassed in every single way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Navigator Steak serving robots are the best robots.
Nyveg Hyperborea Re	Posted - 2009.06.25 16:41:00 - [125] I don'T care for the other scumbag factions....though they should get slightly increased resists through the board. The Machariel is the best looking ship. Angels are the strongest pirate faction. Accordingly give it a better damage-output (especially AC suck) and strengthen either shield or armor tanking capability. The rest is quite ok, BS are not for nano-BS.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:46:00 - [126] Originally by: Durzel This thread worries me somewhat as everyone seems to be in agreement that Nightmare (and the other Sansha ships) are either just fine or awesome (I'm in the "awesome" camp) and therefore it'd probably be easier to nerf them than fix everything else. Please don't touch the Nightmare! The Nightmare is pretty much the example of what faction BS should be.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.25 18:10:00 - [127] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Durzel This thread worries me somewhat as everyone seems to be in agreement that Nightmare (and the other Sansha ships) are either just fine or awesome (I'm in the "awesome" camp) and therefore it'd probably be easier to nerf them than fix everything else. Please don't touch the Nightmare! The Nightmare is pretty much the example of what faction BS should be. i would agree with that they deal alot of DPS and can tank alot this is the example
Asssassin X Caldari Mean Corp	Posted - 2009.06.25 18:19:00 - [128] Nightmare is only good when there is alot of vested skills and isk put into it...otherwise it's pretty meh tbfh __ Enforcer of the NBSI policy
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.06.25 18:19:00 - [129] Edited by: Ephemeron on 25/06/2009 18:20:38 In case CCP people reading this don't understand their own game, I'll clarify this about the Nightmare: Nightmare has an extra bonus of 100% damage. It has 4 turret slots and 2 high utility slots. That extra damage bonus can be translated directly into 8 turrets, 2 high utility slots, 50% reduction in turret power grid usage, 50% reduction in turret CPU usage. Essentially, you have a 10! high slot ship with massive grid and CPU bonuses. This completely overshadows all other faction ships. But that's not all, Nightmare is a shield tanker with 7 med slots - faction shield mods with Crystal Set are about 2-3x better than the equivalent faction armor tanking mods. Thus, Nightmare is the perfect tank and gank battleship - with 1300 dps at 15km optimal gank and 2500 dps active tank. Nothing comes even close. I don't want Nightmare nerfed, I want to see other faction ships to be beefed up significantly
Governor LePetomane Rock Ridge Brokerage Solutions	Posted - 2009.06.25 18:24:00 - [130] Amarr Navy stuff tends to be OK in my experience. I've got a Slicer and a Navy Omen and I love 'em both to death (for PvE anyway); they've got no major fitting issues, no split weapons systems, no crappy bonuses. I've never flown a Navypoc, but I've EFT'ed it and it looks fine (on paper and as compared to the vanilla Apoc I run L4s in) as well. I've also got a Comet which doesn't turn me on much and a Hookbill which seems just outright terrible: crap bonuses and totally gimped on CPU and grid. But hey, at least it costs more than an Ishkur. I've looked at the Cruor and I like where it's trying to go (nastly little niche ewar boat) but the bonuses aren't quite right. It gets bonuses to nos/ neut amount and web range; but base range on a stasis webifier is already longer than base range of small nos/ neut, so essentially one of the bonuses is always wasted. Either you're in neut range so the web bonus doesn't matter or you're webbing from 15 km and the nos/ neut bonus doesn't matter. Maybe for the Cruor an activation cost bonus to neuts and a strength bonus to webs would be the thing.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.25 18:25:00 - [131] you should have good skills at least when piloting them if you dont like the sum of all the isk farmners one week old nooobs flying CNR they will die fast i hope JOIN FOFF NOW CHAT CHANNEL FOR RECRUITMENT INFO
Kuronaga The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.06.25 18:26:00 - [132] As one who has built and sold several nightmares i can testify to the satisfaction of its recipients. If more PIRATE battleships were beefed up like this I think all of eve would be much happier. After all, if they have to pay that much to get one, it should be better. That said, I believe empire faction ships should stay sub-par. any carebear can get their own missioning in highsec and they risk very little, so they shouldnt be nearly as good, period.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.25 18:27:00 - [133] i believe that you should only be able to use faction pirate ships in lower secs =) nightmare is good for tower shooting :) JOIN FOFF NOW CHAT CHANNEL FOR RECRUITMENT INFO
abrasive soap Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.25 19:05:00 - [134] Originally by: Asssassin X Nightmare is only good when there is alot of vested skills and isk put into it...otherwise it's pretty meh tbfh Not really... the big thing about the nightmare is that it has plenty of pg and cpu to fit things.
Opan santel Gallente Fatal Error.	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:54:00 - [135] bumpage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Navigator Steak serving robots are the best robots.
viuva	Posted - 2009.06.26 10:36:00 - [136] Machariel was destroyed
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.26 10:44:00 - [137] Originally by: Eventy One As per this thread, I'd like to see factions ships that require Amarr/Gallente or Caldari/Minmatar skill requirements. I loved that thread, I don't think I have ever been so trollish and yet constructive at the same time. (except for maybe that one thread where I was attacking pottsey's idea rather viciously, yet hardening her idea into a more coherent thought, although that got snipped for trolling ) laser domi/drone geddon ftw and a ship that is covered in rust because its shields are so good that nothing has gotten through, and they cba to clean it.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.26 10:52:00 - [138] Originally by: Crackzilla The lack of faction shuttles disturbs me. That is all. I have 22ish guristas shuttles in jita
Kerdrak Big Guns Inc. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.26 10:54:00 - [139] Edited by: Kerdrak on 26/06/2009 10:54:02 My proposal: Nightmare (Caldari/Amarr): Shield/Laser, using the 2 most cap sucking systems ingame and being an awesome ship. It's perfect. Machariel (Gallente/Minmatar): Armor/Projectile. Being Armor tanked cripples the DPS potential from its guns. I would give this ship the Nightmare slot layout. Bhaalgorn (Amarr/Minmatar): Armor/Ewar battleship. The nos/web nerf killed it . I would give this ship a Laser bonus and boost the web bonus to marauder level. Rattlesnake (Caldari/Gallente): Shield/Missile/Hybrids. Hybrids bonus is not really useful, being gallente would be better to have a drone bonus and to be the only faction drone ship (maybe missiles + 5 bonused med drones) Vindicator (Gallente/Minmatar): Armor/Hybrids. The mimnatar bonus is really a gallente bonus and we already have a Minnie/Gallente faction ship (Machariel). I would change it for Amarr/Gallente or Gallente/Gallente changing the microwarp bonus for a 5% resist or 5% repair bonus. Where are the Caldari/Minmatar and the Amarr/Gallente faction ships? ________________________________________
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.26 10:55:00 - [140] Originally by: Regat Kozovv Just a quick two cents, but since the Rattlesnake is built on the Scorpion model, why not drop the missile bonus and go for rails boni? We've got plenty of missile boats already, and a faction Caldari railboat might change some things up. Gurista NPC Rattlesnakes already sport a ton of turrets. You can mix some EWAR in if you're feeling adventurous, but otherwise you could consider a lighter, but slightly harder-hitting version of the Rokh. (Less tank, more gank. ) why would you want that when you have a 1/2 caldari laser boat
Linas IV	Posted - 2009.06.27 09:57:00 - [141] Since this thread attracted the interest of some CCP Devs, is there any chance that we could get a "small" update on the Dev-side? For example are any changes planned to one of the named ships yet?
Kou Rien ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2009.06.27 20:55:00 - [142] Originally by: Malcanis I'd like to see the Eom geddon changed from being unavailable to available. This. I would love an EOM geddon.
small chimp	Posted - 2009.06.27 20:58:00 - [143] I would say navy mega needs 8th turret hardpoint and one extra midslot. Navy raven is pretty weak too.

CCP Ytterbium	Posted - 2009.06.27 21:34:00 - [144] Originally by: Linas IV Since this thread attracted the interest of some CCP Devs, is there any chance that we could get a "small" update on the Dev-side? For example are any changes planned to one of the named ships yet? As it has been explained many times before, it is not because we are not answering a thread that we are not following it closely, or in this case that we are not aware most faction/pirate ships indeed need some love. I replied to this discussion earlier on because blue bars are bound to get attention, thus constructive feedback from our player base, which was precisely the goal that needed to be achieved . Whatever there may be changes to faction ships or not in the future remain too distant to confirm or deny with certainty, even if such task is definately in our list of points to review. However, the more feedback we get, the clearer and more focused our vision will be when such rebalancing will be done.

Izuru Hishido Amarr ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Violent Society	Posted - 2009.06.27 21:43:00 - [145] Originally by: Malcanis I'd like to see the Eom geddon changed from being unavailable to available. Agreed. The fact that these aren't available is disappointing to say the least. Could be useful with this bonus: 25% bonus to torpedo and Cruise range and 25% bonus to Damage for both missile types. Suggest eight high slots, six missile hardpoints, two empty highs for other modules. 75 cm^3 drone bay, 75 m^3 bandwidth. Suggest six mid slots for a shield tank, with the capability to actually FIT a full rack of torpedo launchers and a viable shield tank without fitting mods. It'd probably need four lowslots, and three rig slots of course.
eliminator2 Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.27 21:49:00 - [146] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Originally by: Linas IV Since this thread attracted the interest of some CCP Devs, is there any chance that we could get a "small" update on the Dev-side? For example are any changes planned to one of the named ships yet? As it has been explained many times before, it is not because we are not answering a thread that we are not following it closely, or in this case that we are not aware most faction/pirate ships indeed need some love. I replied to this discussion earlier on because blue bars are bound to get attention, thus constructive feedback from our player base, which was precisely the goal that needed to be achieved . Whatever there may be changes to faction ships or not in the future remain too distant to confirm or deny with certainty, even if such task is definately in our list of points to review. However, the more feedback we get, the clearer and more focused our vision will be when such rebalancing will be done. hehe my plan worked great ^^ wanted to make this threahd for player feedback so CCP will know directly what is wrong from the people who fly them :) although on another ot i recently purchased a macherial only thing it is good for is perma tanking rats lol and the vindicator is a new toy in my persesiion it is good but not as good as the nightmare but allso needs alot of isk put into it (aprox 4 bill just for mods)
Doppleganger Minmatar Libera Mentem Tuam	Posted - 2009.06.27 21:53:00 - [147] Only faction ships that needs changing are: Battleship : Eidolon Frigate : Enigma, Specter, Wraith Cruiser : Phantom Industrial : Visitant Make them and Jovian playable like it was mentioned back in beta days that they would one day be!!
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.27 21:56:00 - [148] Navy: domi, geddon, scorp (lol), phoon kplx
Izuru Hishido Amarr ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Violent Society	Posted - 2009.06.27 22:02:00 - [149] Actually on that matter I'd really like to see a Navy Geddon. Navy apoc is nice, but what about the Geddon? In fact I notice that only the Tier Two battleships have any navy counterparts, so what about the Tier 1's and 3's? An Abaddon wouldn't be a bad thing to see really, but I'd like to see some EOM ships become readily available. For that matter though, the faction battleships should get an inherent role bonus as well. "The point of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other bastard die for his."
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.27 22:25:00 - [150] Originally by: Izuru Hishido Originally by: Malcanis I'd like to see the Eom geddon changed from being unavailable to available. Agreed. The fact that these aren't available is disappointing to say the least. Could be useful with this bonus: 25% bonus to torpedo and Cruise range and 25% bonus to Damage for both missile types. Suggest eight high slots, six missile hardpoints, two empty highs for other modules. 75 cm^3 drone bay, 75 m^3 bandwidth. Suggest six mid slots for a shield tank, with the capability to actually FIT a full rack of torpedo launchers and a viable shield tank without fitting mods. It'd probably need four lowslots, and three rig slots of course. Um... you just described the Raven. Only not as good.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.28 04:50:00 - [151] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Izuru Hishido Originally by: Malcanis I'd like to see the Eom geddon changed from being unavailable to available. Agreed. The fact that these aren't available is disappointing to say the least. Could be useful with this bonus: 25% bonus to torpedo and Cruise range and 25% bonus to Damage for both missile types. Suggest eight high slots, six missile hardpoints, two empty highs for other modules. 75 cm^3 drone bay, 75 m^3 bandwidth. Suggest six mid slots for a shield tank, with the capability to actually FIT a full rack of torpedo launchers and a viable shield tank without fitting mods. It'd probably need four lowslots, and three rig slots of course. Um... you just described the Raven. Only not as good. I was kinda thinking the same thing there, although the improved cpu/grid would be nice now with an extra midslot and extra launcher hardpoint
Mahke Aeon Of Strife Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.06.28 05:17:00 - [152] Don't have time to read 6 pages, but just chipping in to say the Sansha ships are beautiful, don't change them
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.28 05:59:00 - [153] Edited by: Regat Kozovv on 28/06/2009 05:59:43 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Regat Kozovv Just a quick two cents, but since the Rattlesnake is built on the Scorpion model, why not drop the missile bonus and go for rails boni? We've got plenty of missile boats already, and a faction Caldari railboat might change some things up. Gurista NPC Rattlesnakes already sport a ton of turrets. You can mix some EWAR in if you're feeling adventurous, but otherwise you could consider a lighter, but slightly harder-hitting version of the Rokh. (Less tank, more gank. ) why would you want that when you have a 1/2 caldari laser boat Nothing wrong with a 1/2 Caldari Laser boat. =) I just think a rail-bonus Rattlesnake would fit well with the Gurista theme (their ships are already bristling with turrets) and it would be a nice compliment to the Caldari side as the CNR fills the missile role well. Or, as someone else summed it up earlier: Faction Rokh.
Malena Panic Gallente Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.06.28 08:34:00 - [154] Originally by: Awesome Possum I demand the GFPD be put back on the Comet. An infuriating and unnecessary change. I want my cop car back!
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.06.28 10:14:00 - [155] If people get freaking EOM ships....... You better make thukker ships or I'm gonna freak.
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.06.28 11:48:00 - [156] Originally by: Megan Maynard If people get freaking EOM ships....... You better make thukker ships or I'm gonna freak. Vaga? Cheetah? Any other ship developed by Thukker Mix?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.28 12:07:00 - [157] Originally by: Megan Maynard If people get freaking EOM ships....... You better make thukker ships or I'm gonna freak. I have no objection to Thukker ships
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.06.28 12:18:00 - [158] Equilibrium of Mankind Thukker Fleet Syndicate Armada Ammatar Navy Khanid Navy Mordus Legion Sisters Explorers Interbus Commerce Fleet 'Integrated' + 'Augmented' Society Experimental Vessels Lots of space for new faction stuff.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.28 12:18:00 - [159] Originally by: Regat Kozovv Edited by: Regat Kozovv on 28/06/2009 05:59:43 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Regat Kozovv Just a quick two cents, but since the Rattlesnake is built on the Scorpion model, why not drop the missile bonus and go for rails boni? We've got plenty of missile boats already, and a faction Caldari railboat might change some things up. Gurista NPC Rattlesnakes already sport a ton of turrets. You can mix some EWAR in if you're feeling adventurous, but otherwise you could consider a lighter, but slightly harder-hitting version of the Rokh. (Less tank, more gank. ) why would you want that when you have a 1/2 caldari laser boat Nothing wrong with a 1/2 Caldari Laser boat. =) I just think a rail-bonus Rattlesnake would fit well with the Gurista theme (their ships are already bristling with turrets) and it would be a nice compliment to the Caldari side as the CNR fills the missile role well. Or, as someone else summed it up earlier: Faction Rokh. Rattlesnake as an ECM/Hybrid boat would be great: 3 turret slots, +3 utility Increase dronebay to 100m^3/100mbit Role bonus: +100% hybrid damage +7.5% tracking per level of gallante BS +20% to ECM strength per level of caldari BS There you have a fantastic close up shield buffered blaster/ECM boat.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.06.28 14:24:00 - [160] Sod ECM on Guristas ships. We have enough ECM boats atm, each with fairly well-defined roles, we don't need any more really. Also, there's nothing wrong with split weapon systems in principle - they only become a problem when the final ship stats, when fitted, are a problem. This is why the Typhoon works - it has the slot layout and drone bay to support its "suboptimal" split weapon system - albeit when you have 60 mill SP, anyway... But the Guristas ships do need reworking. Currently the Worm is worse than the Hawk, widely regarded as the worst T2 frigate and one of the worst ships overall in game. The Gila is pointless and the Rattlesnake is just a Raven with an extra lowslot. These ships fail because they have split weapon bonuses but not a proper split weapon system, no redeeming factors such as a drone bay to make up for the suboptimal split bonuses, and crippling PG and CPU problems. Faction ships may be rare, but that rarity makes them important to the players, who see them as something to aim for, and they shouldn't be disappointed to find out that their shiny faction BS offers nothing over a T1 ship. Guristas ships are supposed to be a Cal/Gall hybrid. To me, that says a mix of hybrids, missiles and drones. Let's see a Rattlesnake that keeps its split weapon system, with a 4/4 turret/launcher split - but with a 200 m3 drone bay (125 m3 bandwidth) and a drone damage/HP bonus to make up for the inherent weakness of the split weapon system. The other bonuses should be hybrid and missile ROF or damage. Then make sure it's got the fittings to actually support a sensible torp/blasters or rails/cruise fit, with either a shield or armour tank. That gives us a shpi that's viable in PVP or PVE and is different to all other ships in the game. Yes, it's skill-intensive, needing missiles, hybrids and drones, but faction BS should be skill-intensive, they should be something for players to aim towards.
eliminator2 Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.28 19:41:00 - [161] so may i ask now any CCP/DEV/GM wether or not your all seriously consideringremaking faction ships to be more better please don't nerf any though like your ussual quick fix please you know they lead to more whining and tantroms :D ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :) i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.06.28 21:41:00 - [162] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Megan Maynard If people get freaking EOM ships....... You better make thukker ships or I'm gonna freak. I have no objection to Thukker ships Yeah that Thukker Rifter in wildlands is pretty cool.
eliminator2 Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.29 18:31:00 - [163] ok lets bump this now since the lame "patch wont dl" threahds are over ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :) i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise
Letifer Deus Caldari Corporation 12345	Posted - 2009.06.29 20:35:00 - [164] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/06/2009 20:36:13 Pretty much everything but the TS ships need love. I'll stick with the vindi for now: swap tracking bonus for 7.5% bonus to armor rep amount increase grid/cpu to allow a proper neutron/dual rep setup. The Nightmare's fitting ease -where it is your wallet, not the ship, that limits you- should be closer to the rule than the exception on faction pirate BS. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
EvilSpork Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.29 23:18:00 - [165] yep pretty much what everyone else is saying: ALL faction ships need a LOT of love with the exception of the Nightmare. The Phantasm needs a little more fitting perhaps but is overall a decent ship, though a bit overpriced. I'd personally like to see a lot more faction ships added for all the smaller factions and combinations of factions not currently in represented. ie: EoM, amarr/gallente, caldari/minmitar, a real serpentis BS(vindicator is guardian angel. angels have 2 faction BS, which is ok), maybe khanid, and perhaps even a drone ship?! Some suggestion for things that are hints that a ship sucks and needs to be fixed: convoluted bonuses and roles like on the Gila, navy Scythe, Ashimmu, Cynabal, Rattlesnake, Machariel, and ALL faction frigates except the navy Slicer. These ships all suffer from either split weapons slots or bonuses, or have a disproportionate number of weapons vs high slots. Look at the poor Dramiel: 3 bonuses for projectiles, 5 high slots, and... TWO TURRET SLOTS?! and THREE missile slots?! It's "bonuses" and "features" like these that make most faction ships expensive paperweights.
Vanessa Vasquez	Posted - 2009.06.30 01:37:00 - [166] YES PLS! faction (not ships exclusive) needs love, one of my most desired things within eve! I was thinking of placing the faction cruisers next to HACs and the faction frigs next to AF. Reason is simple. They are allready in the same price region and PVP is usually T2 stuff, at least below BC class ships. I would make them require both shipclass skills to be at lvl 5, to make them really unique vessels and approach T2 skilltime while placing them next to their T2 counterparts. And give them a role which fits. Fe. the Vigilant Actually it's an inferior Deimos. It's gallente/minmatar and gallente lacks a real sniper hack. So why not make it a fast sniper which doesn't match the range of the Eagle, nor the dps of the muninn. But fast and with good tracking, probably for anti frigate sniping? Gila The mixed weapon bonus is lol. Especially when you consider the drake, navy caracal and cerberus allready beeing good and "nearly similar" turret boats. It's gallente/caldari, so what would be more logical to make it a shield tanked drone boat? Cynabal Why would anyone fly that except the great looks? Just buy a Vaga and be way faster, more dps, more HP, more versatility. It's Minmatar/Gallante, and we allready have the Vigilant as a sniper. So mabye we can get this baby as a fast deimos on projectiles? Not as much dps as a deimos and not as fast as a Vaga, but right in the middle. Have no idea on the Ashimmu or Phantasm atm, can't fly ammar so i haven't bothered yet ^^ Navy Vexor Myrm, Ishtar, Vexor Navy are quite close, so it's actually hard to find a role for the Vexor Navy Issue. 3 thoughts though. 1) bonus for electronic warefare drones, making it an ewar ship 2) nano'ed, like 2000 - 2500 m/s - less tank and dps than myrm/ishtar, but hard to catch 3) passive tank bonus [myrm active](maybe low sig as well cause slow with plates) or dps/falloff bonus to outperform the ishtar dps when going risky close range Just some thoughs, would definately wan't to see faction revamped ! Quote: [21:02:14] McKinlay > it's always nice to be out-failed :P. there are no winners or losers just people that fail harder
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.30 02:33:00 - [167] I think the biggest issue on the faction stuff lies on the high price. I would like having faction ship being just a bit better as well as just a little more expensive and specialized than common stuff. All "different" stuff in EVE is so rare and expensive that it becomes forbidden for most players.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.30 04:03:00 - [168] Edited by: Mioelnir on 30/06/2009 04:04:13 Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Vaga? Cheetah? Any other ship developed by Thukker Mix? Jaguar and Nomad. That said, one more rant on 2 or 3-way split weapon systems. The usual arguments against them is inefficiency of weapon upgrade modules and needed skillpoint investments. The first one is annoying, the second one can be sat out. The real showstopper for me is, that every weapon system in EVE requires a certain flight behaviour in pvp to bring its benefits over your opponent to bear. With split layouts, it is very rare to be able to play to the advantage of all your weapon systems (unless your opponent is a permajammed sitting duck). And another issue was raised by a fellow capsuleer, to change the fleet pest's alpha ability so Minmatar would have a real sniper again. While it would definately be nice, the reduced meaning of volley damage isn't what killed Minmatar as a sniping race. Minmatar need too many slots to achieve competitive locking and weapon ranges (and still fail). The reintroduction of stacking penalties for locus rigs hurt a lot more. 140/44 optimal/falloff simply is a knife in a gunfight, when your opponent has 200km+ optimal.
Caffeine Junkie State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.30 15:35:00 - [169] Rattlesnake and Gila as per this thread Linkage Ignore all the crap about the pilgrim.
Lucas Tigh United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.06.30 16:09:00 - [170] Originally by: Malena Panic Originally by: Awesome Possum I demand the GFPD be put back on the Comet. An infuriating and unnecessary change. I want my cop car back! ------------------------------------- CCP, make me a winner.
To mare	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:45:00 - [171] - sansha ships are fine - Bhal need more fitting and i would like to see the 125mb drone since its a armageddon hull (ashimmu and cruor ned some love in the same way as well) - Rattlesnake hybrid bonus is useless a drone bonus would be perfect, cruiser and frigs i heard need some love too but idk - Serpentis ships need something to justify the price tag give them their agility back - Machariel need its speed advantage back i would love to see a mach nanofitted doing 2,5km/s before heat, angel frig need more turrets, cynabal need a bit more fitting it would be perfect with 100 more grid for 1600 plate + AC like a rupture. in order i would love to see mach and bhal fixed first and please no more marauder bonus on faction ships
Shikagi Sitami	Posted - 2009.06.30 20:42:00 - [172] All of the pirate factions have been trumped. Frigates by Electronic Attack frigs and a few others. Cruisers by Recons and Strategics BS by Marauders. The blood raider ships have been hit especially hard by the Curse & Huginn/Rapier, eliminating both of its strengths. Need to be revamped entirely just like Sansha were.
eliminator2 Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.30 21:34:00 - [173] its very nice to see 6 pages of people aggreeing that the same faction ships need overhauling NO NERFING but boosting. my question is now do CCP allso see this and have the brians to fix it without nerfing anything ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :) i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.30 21:43:00 - [174] Confirming that not enough brians are working for CCP. (They're very naughty boys that should leave Welsh tarts alone)
Vanessa Vasquez	Posted - 2009.07.01 05:47:00 - [175] Originally by: Malcanis Confirming that not enough brians are working for CCP. (They're very naughty boys that should leave Welsh tarts alone) You Sir, certainly have enough brains. Thx 4 sharing your ideas Quote: [21:02:14] McKinlay > it's always nice to be out-failed :P. there are no winners or losers just people that fail harder
Imiarr Timshae Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats	Posted - 2009.07.01 06:14:00 - [176] Originally by: eliminator2 the ships are macherial, Vindicator, Nightmare, Bhaalgorn and rattlesnake (if missed any of them please let me know) Dramiel Daredevil Succubus Comet Slicer Hookbill Firetail Cruor Worm Gila Navy Caracal Navy Osprey Navy Omen Navy Augoror Navy Vexor Navy Exequror Fleet Stabber Fleet Scythe Vigilant Ashimmu Phantasm Cynabal Navy Raven Navy Apocalypse Navy Megathron Fleet Tempest These are the faction ships you have missed out.
Melanie Griffin Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.02 07:42:00 - [177] faction needs love, absolutely
Zackalwe Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.02 16:18:00 - [178] Originally by: Xianthar Originally by: Malcanis store) or the puppy gets it. 4: split weapons are BAD Quoted for emphasis, 6+ years eve has been around, can't believe there are still ships with split weapon bonuses. This is indeed a problem for some of these ships. Its not that split weapons systems are a bad idea, its just the way they are implemented. The two main reasons split weapons systems on a ship are bad in Eve: 1. A ship normally has two bonuses. If the bonuses are used up on two different weapons you effectively have half the net bonus worth than if both bonuses were on a single weapon. So split weapon ship bonuses have to change. Solution: Maybe for example, instead of ROF bonus to projectiles and damage bonus to missiles. Have: ROF bonus to projectiles+missiles, damage bonus to projectiles+missiles. Still two bonuses but affecting both weapon systems. 2. Second problem is damage mods. To get the same damage increase as a standard ship, a split weapon ship needs to use twice the low slots on damage mods. A bit unfair. Solution: Have modules that can affect more than one stat. For example in our projectile and missile ship, you could fit a damage mod that had a bonus to projectiles and missiles in one module. Maybe make them a bit more expensive and only 90percent as effective as the two mods they are replacing, so they dont get used as a standard module. _
Opan santel Gallente Fatal Error.	Posted - 2009.07.04 10:42:00 - [179] moar luv for faction ships pls ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Navigator Steak serving robots are the best robots.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.07.13 18:23:00 - [180] Oh look what I found ! A thread ! About faction ships no less. Definitely needs more input. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Valadeya uthanaras Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.07.13 21:59:00 - [181] I am more about the blood raider upgrade so it could look like this cruor H 5 M 3 L 3 drone: 0 turret hardpoint: 3 bonus 1: 100% capacitor use of energy turret bonus 2: 15% web range per level bonus 3: 30% neutralizer and nos range (max range of 25km with faction nos) bonus/fit explonation: here something new, capless energy turret, may sound crazy , but what it give is similar to a EAS but at the same time completly different. unlike a sentinel , it doesnt have ewar for protection but more for offence(web) , and doesnt use drone to damage, but use turret, so we can see a lot of different use and fit for the thing, give a lot of power grid so it could fit 3 med pulse + 2 neut + 20 extra for med/low slot (we could see some beam fitting in there too) Ashimu H 7 M 4 L 5 drone: 0 turret hardpoint: 5 bonus 1: 100% capacitor use of energy turret bonus 2: 15% web range per level bonus 3: 30% neutralizer and nos range bonus/fit explonation: Similar thinking to the cruor but on a bigger scale , it will not perform the same way a curse or huggin would , but in similar fashion , where we could see exotic setup using pulse with scorch at range to deal damage at around 25km , webbing the target, and so on this one i would be particulary interested in trying, it will not have the damage of a omen or zealot(far from that in fact...more in the maller region) , but we could see a huge variety of different fit possible, operating at a huge variety of range Bhaalgorn similar idea Ashimu H 8 M 4 L 7 drone: 125 turret hardpoint: 6 bonus 1: 100% capacitor use of energy turret bonus 2: 15% web range per level bonus 3: 30% neutralizer and nos range bonus/fit explonation: here , all bets are off , but i think many imaginative setup are possible : this thing will never reach dps from its t1 conterpart, but it will be able to be a major add to any fleet it would operate with , because , its "resistant" EWAR , and it could perform a lots of varied task, unlike the other to ship , someone might want to leave the neut bonus and go toward a web/gun fit , or it could also go for a middle ground with 4 neut and 4 turret , feeding the neut with booster neuting at pulse with scorch range ..... nom nom nom ... but not much dps!!! keep that in mind THING similar to all ship: to have a bonused capacitor to neut/nos , anyone can fit egress port rig or have a talsiman set this way , if someone really want to operate in the "neut ground" it will be possible at more ease than with the current way its done it have mostly gun dps with the baaltgorn being exception , to compensate for the ..... not possible to fit 8 guns + 2 neut, where heavy drone come in to "take the spot" of 2 turret ... adding a bit of versatility the ship would not be as good to neut as a sentinel/curse/pilgrim , or as good to web like hyena/rapier/huggin , but they would operate in a middleground between them that would be extremly interresting Valadeya
skuggan	Posted - 2009.07.13 22:05:00 - [182] The Machariel, i have no good solution tho but i'm sure it has been mentioned before in this topic :) I just want it to have a role again, maybe not overpowered sick nano speed for the wicked rich, just a little more edge than it has now. -- Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.
Terri Lam Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.07.13 22:33:00 - [183] Originally by: Jin Nib Bhaalgorn should get its own damn model. Esspecailly considering its price. Agreeing that the Bhaalgorn needs its own model, or at least the return of the blood red splotches. People like their toys to be shiny, and the dull finish currently on there just doesn't do it.
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2009.07.15 01:38:00 - [184] Shift all faction ships to a T1 version of 'strategic cruiser' role, using modules depending on both of their racial prerequisites. A'la Machariel - Allow it to use strategic subsystems of either Minmatar or Gallente. Give them the same inherent hull bonuses however, so that they're equivalent to T3 on T1 hulls but with better roles due to inherent built in bonuses. This will make Faction ships useful... as other than battleships and Sansha they never were at all, especially when you consider their costs.
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2009.07.15 06:19:00 - [185] Originally by: Ephemeron As someone with experience flying faction battleships in PvP, I'll say this: Before the nano-nerf, Machariel was the best pvp battleship, it was my favorite and I must have flown at least 8 of them. After the nano-nerf, I have attempted to use it in PvP, but it simply did not have enough of an edge to set it apart from other battleships. Right now, Nightmare is one of the best battleships in PvP, because it can have massive tank and gank setup. The focus role of a battleship now is to tank and gank, so the ships that can do at least 1 of those very well are successful. Speed tactics on battleships are no longer a viable option. Mach was the speed battleship. But honestly, I don't see how you can change Machariel - for example, to give it a new useful role. Especially if you realize that there are only 2 roles to work with - tank and gank. What else is there? There's nos/neut - Bhaal takes that. There's drone specialization - right now no faction battleship has that, but such a role is better suited for Vindicator than Mach. It is my opinion that the best role for Mach is speed tactics, return it back to former glory at least partially. One way to do that, without new bonuses or lots of stat tweaking, is to simply reduce Mach mass by half. Make it a 50 megaton battleship - 100 megaton with MWD. That would have significant speed boost, but it still wouldn't be as good as pre-nano nerf. Yes you are right.. battleships are used to tank and deal damage... but guess what? they are battleships.. they are supposed to be slow moving ships that build the fleets main parts and do the damage while the support gets webs etc on it.... the mach is not as bad as ppl pretend.. you just cant fly arround in a 21km/s battleship anymore omg!... get over it... mach still performs nice in pvp with a tank fitted instead of speed mods...
skuggan	Posted - 2009.07.15 09:35:00 - [186] Originally by: Jim Hazard Yes you are right.. battleships are used to tank and deal damage... but guess what? they are battleships.. they are supposed to be slow moving ships that build the fleets main parts and do the damage while the support gets webs etc on it.... the mach is not as bad as ppl pretend.. you just cant fly arround in a 21km/s battleship anymore omg!... get over it... mach still performs nice in pvp with a tank fitted instead of speed mods... I disagree, there should be some kind of reward for flying a multi-billion ship.. as it is now you can tank/gank as good as you do in a deadspace/faction mach as in a regular maelstrom with t2 setup. I'm not saying it should be a overpowered lolspeed machine, just for ccp to give it some kind of role. right now it's just expensive, not even remotely worth pvp'ing in. -- Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.

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