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Skill disparity between old players and new makes it stupid to play.

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RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.06.26 11:26:00 - [31] 125Mil Skills Points to show the OP is so far wrong it's untrue -- RaTTuS @ InEve, Capital Prints for sale
Dotard Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.06.26 12:07:00 - [32] 32,000,000 sp character here. And I have like zero industry, mining, carebearing skills. 99% of my skills are combat orientated. Never interested in any of that carebear industry stuffs. Had my a$$ handed to me on several occasions over the last couple years by small gangs (3-5) of noobs (none more than a month or two old). EW can really ruin someones day. Gang up with a few other noobs, fit some cheap ships and go attackin'. Remember to focus your fire. You'll lose some, you'll win some. And it will be fun for all. Well, except the one you decide to attack, won't be much fun for him.
Mordekai Bloodwake Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.26 12:21:00 - [33] Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in World of Warcraft i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has T6+ and is Level 80. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in EverQuest2 i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has Raid Gear and is Level 80 with maxed AA. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. FIXED Another fine example of Natural Selection!
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2009.06.26 12:52:00 - [34] I love the stupidity of most posters on these forums. The OP says I can't kill a higher SP player and instead of saying, yep, working as intended, they go all defensive and start spouting logical fallacies the most popular of which is the ad hominem logical fallacy. My own response to the OP is, l2p.
beor oranes Caldari The Capitalist Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.26 12:55:00 - [35] You need to get some friends and try again or go join Eve Uni and see what they do...they are scary!! They use the power of the noob. But seriously, SP helps but it only means you can fly more expensive ships, its player skill that counts for more than anything, check this video out : The CCP Test forum post is here : Forum Post to go with it
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.26 13:04:00 - [36] Everyone was a newbie. With the exception of the 2003 players, everyone competed with characters at least a year older than they were when they started. Everyone who still plays overcame this. Are you less capable?
Doctor Penguin Amarr Heavy Influence Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.26 13:14:00 - [37] Speaking as a seven month old EVE player, it's always more a question of who you're flying with than SP. High SP is really only useful for Lvl 4 mission running... ________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Soundwave Get out Mindstar, or I'll punch you in the ovaries.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.26 13:16:00 - [38] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Everyone was a newbie. With the exception of the 2003 players, everyone competed with characters at least a year older than they were when they started. Everyone who still plays overcame this. Are you less capable? I was gonna flame the OP for being a panzy, but this actually said it better and nicer. The game is not gonna change for you, so you either need to change or GTFO.
Tirenya Unity Of Legends	Posted - 2009.06.26 13:32:00 - [39] Originally by: TaluxA Also you might find a lot of Eve players kinda hostile ;). But that's how people are I spose. So true, people are so ANGRY ALL THE TIME... Calm down guys. Chortle :) __________________________________ Failing Miserably At Everything Since '05
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2009.06.26 14:28:00 - [40] Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. Better yet, these people sit around in 0.4 areas and make it completely pointless/stupid to even set foot in these areas. There is no exploration to be done because the gates are camped and you will get blown up right away. For a game that takes forever to do anything in, it seems like a huge bucket of fail on the part of the developer to make such a disparity. In other games, where the death penalty isnt as extreme, there is a "level range" of which a player cannot attack. For instance in EQ1 on the Rallos Zek server you could not attack someone greater than 4 levels below you, but in EvE with HARSHER death penalties(in EQ1 you got one item from the person you killed) they allow for people with massive amounts of gametime to just destroy new players. Honestly is there even a point to play if you're new? Other than running missions in high security(which I may add are very boring after the 15th one), its almost evident that one has to quit the game. Besides griefing in 0.4 gates, another pasttime of older players is to harass new players with can flipping and attacking them in high security. I think the only reason there are so many subscriptions is because people have 3-4 alts each... I think they need to make a restriction that you cant attack someone that has 5M+ skill points less than you other than sanctioned areas. I honestly think this is a huge fail that needs to be addressed. Yes, you wont have a chance against the old vets. Not because of the sp difference wich means nothing at all! No, you wont have a chance against the vets because you lack basic understanding of EVE Online. Because if you had, you would never have made this post at all. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Drakarin Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.26 14:35:00 - [41] I would prefer an element of skill be added to all of the tactical, for example being able to pilot smaller ships like frigates, destroyers, maybe even cruisers, manually. This would be most interesting. Evasive patterns and manual fire; oh the love! But really, even a low skilled player can specialize in electronic warfare and be useful to a corp. But in solo PvP, you're correct. You can rarely ever win.
xXxSatsujinxXx Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen	Posted - 2009.06.26 14:40:00 - [42] Mshappypanties is a known troll. Please don't feed her. She tried the "I'm a girl and people are mean to me, they camped me in a station even though i asked them not to..." a while back. Just stop poasting. Please.
Mshappypanties	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:36:00 - [43] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in World of Warcraft i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has T6+ and is Level 80. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in EverQuest2 i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has Raid Gear and is Level 80 with maxed AA. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. FIXED Another fine example of Natural Selection! Hardly, but nice try. Its obvious you didnt play either one of those games before you made a comment, and I have. In both of those games when you die the consequence is that you just run back to your corpse and resurrect with all your equipment, experience and items. The run typically lasts no more than 5 minutes. In EVE, you can lose months of work just because someone has been playing longer
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:40:00 - [44] Originally by: Mshappypanties Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in World of Warcraft i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has T6+ and is Level 80. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in EverQuest2 i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has Raid Gear and is Level 80 with maxed AA. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. FIXED Another fine example of Natural Selection! Hardly, but nice try. Its obvious you didnt play either one of those games before you made a comment, and I have. In both of those games when you die the consequence is that you just run back to your corpse and resurrect with all your equipment, experience and items. The run typically lasts no more than 5 minutes. In EVE, you can lose months of work just because someone has been playing longer I once stopped a carrier from escaping by putting a warp scrambler on an ibis and orbiting in the middle of a fleet fight.
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:42:00 - [45] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in World of Warcraft i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has T6+ and is Level 80. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in EverQuest2 i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has Raid Gear and is Level 80 with maxed AA. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. FIXED Another fine example of Natural Selection! Just that you know all this makes me want to hurt you (in game)
Diicc Tater Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:42:00 - [46] Eve, just like hollywood, is all about who you know and who you fly with.
Kale Kold Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:44:00 - [47] Originally by: sxndy SP is overated, its what's inside your head that gets kills. Agreed! This is my experience also!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:48:00 - [48] While the previous thread of the OP might have been a pretty constructive (even if obvious) troll, this one doesn't really look that constructive at all, and still an obvious troll EVE issues\|Mining revamp\|Build stuff\|Make ISK
Thuranni ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:52:00 - [49] Read this. When Goonswarm first entered EVE, they were mocked as a group of hopeless newbies that would never amount to anything. Today, they are one of the dominant 0.0 entities and just destroyed Band of Brothers, which had been the most powerful 0.0 alliance since 2004. It is very possible for newbies to compete, you just haven't figured out how yet.
Mshappypanties	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:59:00 - [50] Originally by: Thuranni Read this. It is very possible for newbies to compete, you just haven't figured out how yet. by outnumbering 10 to 1?
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:09:00 - [51] Originally by: Mshappypanties Hardly, but nice try. Its obvious you didnt play either one of those games before you made a comment, and I have. In both of those games when you die the consequence is that you just run back to your corpse and resurrect with all your equipment, experience and items. The run typically lasts no more than 5 minutes. In EVE, you can lose months of work just because someone has been playing longer It seems I respond to this sorta thing alot. I run a small corp with a few other veterans. We got our friends interested in playing and they've since joined. They're less than two months old, under 2 million SP. In that time they've run gatecamps, flown in class 3 and 4 wormholes, and run level 4s. They've mined, helped set up a POS, and started manufacturing and research. None of them are experts in what they do, but they're certainly competitive, and they're a damn good help. Plenty of people above have illusrtated the fact that pure SP does not account for much. You can certainly be competitive pursuing a specific track. I've seen 6 month old characters flying dreadnoughts (something I can't do even given 4 years in EVE). A titan was taken out the other day thanks to a lone interceptor pilot. How much SP did that take? It's true you can certainly stand to lose a lot in EVE if you're not careful. The standard grind for that epic item and piling everything on your character (or ship in this case) definitally won't work here. Take the time to learn from people who have come before and you'll learn that there are plenty of ways to mitigate loss while still maximizing your fun. If this still doesn't sound good, then that's ok. This game isn't for everyone. There is loss, yes. But in those same mechanics that allow for the agony of defeat also produce the most incredible feelings of accomplishment and victory. How many here have participated in conflicts that have removed entire alliances from the game? Think of all of the people who traded, mined, researched, and manufactured the lowliest warp disruptor that resulted in holding the capital ship, who's destruction spelled the end for the work of thousands of players? Or charged an enemy fleet with little more than a few scrapped together railguns? Whether they won or lost doesn't diminish from the fact that these battles change the face of EVE, and the world here is much different than it first was. Last I checked in WoW (and I played earlier this week with my gf) the Alliance is still battling the horde, and always will. If you want to kill the same PCs over and over again with nothing to show for it, or fling yourself into battle time and time again with little more on the line than a minor gear repair cost, be our guest. There's something to be said for casual play, and I don't think anyone here doesn't enjoy it from time to time. But if you want to find fun and enjoyment here, then you'll going to have to adopt a new paradigm. The old patterns and strategies don't apply here. This is EVE Online.
Drakarin Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:17:00 - [52] What people have said is simple and can be summed up like this: Skill points in Solo PvP = Extremely important. Everything depends on this, and the luck of the encounter. Skill points in Solo PvE = Important, but the risk is much less than in PvP. Skill points in Fleet PvP = Far less important. Specialization into the role assigned to you is all that matters. You can be effective in fleets in a week. Skill points in fleet PvE = moderately important, again depending on your role and what you're taking on.
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:21:00 - [53] Originally by: Mshappypanties I honestly think this is a huge fail that needs to be addressed. You know what makes this a troll post? Your in-game name. You should have called yourself "Mistress Happy Panties". And then in your Bio you need to put "Me love you long time, 5 dollar".
Mshappypanties	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:23:00 - [54] Honestly is the job of a new player to "tackle", because I dont know anyone that started playing this game so they can spam anti warp and webbing on someone while someone else does the actual killing...
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:34:00 - [55] How would you know enough players to make any judgement, your new arn't you? Or did this fantasy land boyfriend of yours tell you? Your posts are about as convincing as your name and also completely wrong, but that is not something you care about Mr Troll.
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:37:00 - [56] Originally by: Mshappypanties Honestly is the job of a new player to "tackle", because I dont know anyone that started playing this game so they can spam anti warp and webbing on someone while someone else does the actual killing... You can't kill anything without a point on it. Weapons are useless if your target warps before you can even lock. When I first started EVE I joined a little 0.0 corp soon after. I was only really effective in frigates at first, so I trained a bit as tackler. It was fantastic. Nothing more fulfilling then watching someone's 100mil battleship go down the drain because your 500k ISK frigate put a point on it so your buddies could pound it to scrap. Look on any major alliance's KB and you'll see who gets the majority of the credit for good kills: The interceptor pilots. But look, you're not delegated to that alone. In less than a month you can be in a cruiser. Two you can be in a battlecruiser. Battleships arn't too far behind. Don't like PvP? Work the market. Takes next to nothing skills, and the money you can make is tremendous. There's always a role. When we do wormhole ops, the veterans fly in battleships. We can't hit the frigates for crap. It's our 1.5mil n00bs who take care of those. And they save our butts when we get scrambled and getting the crap pounded out of us by a pile of turrets. There's lots of better examples, and the tools are here. You just started and got your head handed to you by a 20mil SP player. He beat you not because he has more skillpoints, but because you got goaded into fighting him or he made better tactical decisions than you did. If you just ran up and expected to out slug him, then of course you're going to get podded. Is a level 40 going to take out a level 80 in WoW? Hell no. If anything, EVE makes it MORE possible for the underdog to win. But you're going to have to understand that it's not about levels or XP or skillpoints that make you a better combat player. Experience is all that matters here, and the sooner you learn that the better off you'll be. So pick yourself up, wipe off the dirt, and instead of whining in General Discussion, go over to the "New Player Center", or "Ships and Modules", or "Warfare and Tactics" or any other of the number of boards here that will teach you how to play. There are tons of people here willing to help you, but they have absolutely no pity for griping. See you there.
Sloppy Podfarts	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:55:00 - [57] Originally by: Regat Kozovv Take the time to learn ... This is where all these kids fail. (seriously, imagine how helpless they must be IRL)
Part II	Posted - 2009.06.26 17:09:00 - [58] It's true that op is a troll, but there is some merit to what the person is saying. Realistically, one can't do much real pvp until around 7-8 million skill points minimum unless in a gang. And most gangs want little to do with players who don't yet understand the game, nor have the ability to use most of its features. Having the navigation, mechanic, engineering, electronics etc. skills and ALL their support skills makes a huge difference. Having tech 2 modules in possibly a tech 2 ship with all of the offensive support skills takes a bunch of time. Once you have those, obviously it gets easier, but a new character also probably invests some points into learning and other side skills so that their character is moderately playable (things like trade, scanning, etc). Eve is a very interesting game, and obviously offers MUCH more to the veteran player than most other mmos and games in general. For that it does deserve credit, but realistically, between the huge skill point disparity (and in game-skill gap) of older players and newer ones and, frankly, one of the worst user interfaces in modern games, you do kind of get a recipe for disaster that can wear on all but the most hardened masochists who also have an extreme penchant for computer games.
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.06.26 17:47:00 - [59] Edited by: Zartanic on 26/06/2009 17:49:21 Well I see no merit at all. Unlike all other MMORPG's I know a player can play with higher levels from week one. All I see is someone unwilling to learn. There are countless posts about how new players can have a good experience, but the Op, being a Troll, does not care about that. Unlike a game like WOW which has no risk and therefore no sense of achievement or need to learn anything this game offers that. All I see is a lazy player, common in other MMROPG's and pandered to by the game makers a lot more as money is all those Devs care about now, but not here which is why I'm playing EVE and not another version of Kitty Island Adventure. This game is for players who like things hard and challenging, its the whole point of it. I came back to Eve from playing 4 years in WOW to get away from these kind of people. They wrecked one game already, don't let them wreck this one as they will given half a chance. Give them an inch and they will take a mile and then they will STILL moan for more.
Mshappypanties	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:02:00 - [60] Originally by: Zartanic Edited by: Zartanic on 26/06/2009 17:49:21 Well I see no merit at all. Unlike all other MMORPG's I know a player can play with higher levels from week one. All I see is someone unwilling to learn. There are countless posts about how new players can have a good experience, but the Op, being a Troll, does not care about that. Unlike a game like WOW which has no risk and therefore no sense of achievement or need to learn anything this game offers that. All I see is a lazy player, common in other MMROPG's and pandered to by the game makers a lot more as money is all those Devs care about now, but not here which is why I'm playing EVE and not another version of Kitty Island Adventure. This game is for players who like things hard and challenging, its the whole point of it. I came back to Eve from playing 4 years in WOW to get away from these kind of people. They wrecked one game already, don't let them wreck this one as they will given half a chance. Give them an inch and they will take a mile and then they will STILL moan for more. Hardly, Its one thing to learn(sorry but the game isnt as complicated as you want to make it out to be) and another thing when veteran players grief new people before we can even get started. New players already have it hard by trying to make money, but when we finally get a decent ship to do missions, you guys go and destroy it as soon as we warp. I also love the fact that veteran players go into newbie areas and drop cans all over the place, which causes us to lose a ship because we are learning. Wonderful idea! In other games like wow, people grief but the fact of the matter is that you dont lose weeks worth of grinding missions due to some jerk.

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