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Skill disparity between old players and new makes it stupid to play.

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Mshappypanties	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:06:00 - [1] As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. Better yet, these people sit around in 0.4 areas and make it completely pointless/stupid to even set foot in these areas. There is no exploration to be done because the gates are camped and you will get blown up right away. For a game that takes forever to do anything in, it seems like a huge bucket of fail on the part of the developer to make such a disparity. In other games, where the death penalty isnt as extreme, there is a "level range" of which a player cannot attack. For instance in EQ1 on the Rallos Zek server you could not attack someone greater than 4 levels below you, but in EvE with HARSHER death penalties(in EQ1 you got one item from the person you killed) they allow for people with massive amounts of gametime to just destroy new players. Honestly is there even a point to play if you're new? Other than running missions in high security(which I may add are very boring after the 15th one), its almost evident that one has to quit the game. Besides griefing in 0.4 gates, another pasttime of older players is to harass new players with can flipping and attacking them in high security. I think the only reason there are so many subscriptions is because people have 3-4 alts each... I think they need to make a restriction that you cant attack someone that has 5M+ skill points less than you other than sanctioned areas. I honestly think this is a huge fail that needs to be addressed.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:09:00 - [2] I thought this too when I was a newbie 3 years ago. Then I killed 2 pirates who had 2-3 years on me and thought: "All that sp advantage doesn't mean much when applied to actual in game mechanics" Suck it up or GTFO. Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:09:00 - [3] Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. old troll 0/10 GTFO
ArchenTheGreat Caldari HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:20:00 - [4] Originally by: Mshappypanties The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. You are wrong because: - you can bring friends, 2 of you will easily kill one older player especially if you use EW - real skill matters, many older characters are bought and their owner does't know how to pvp, also some people don't pvp a lot (industrialist) - you can't put 20mil points in one ship, you can catch up with older players very fast if you specialize
Gold Rogers Maiden Corp	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:21:00 - [5] So you're basically asking for people to have the ability to use newbies alt to scout that can't be killed?
Anvalor Gallente Germania Inc. D0GMA	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:23:00 - [6] I have an example. If i have all gunnery skills at 5, all gallente ships at 5 and so on that does mean you never can learn them to 5 or what? Or do you think when i fly a Megathron for example, that the skills like minmatar bs and amar bs will help me in that moment ? I can only fly one ship per time. The only advantage i have is that i can choose from more ships than you and maybe i got more expierience over the years but that is all, you troll.
Aioa Planetary Assault Systems	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:30:00 - [7] Don't feed it. --
sxndy Gallente Snuff inc	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:32:00 - [8] Yes, you do need some sp, but most of killing is done with the use of tactics and guts. I know some guys that only had 7mill sp at the time and could pvp with the best of them. SP is overated, its what's inside your head that gets kills.
Phantom Slave JUDGE DREAD Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Mshappypanties Stuff Hmm that's weird, a couple of players just a few days old went out in t1 fit rifters and kicked the crap out of people. Here's a link. Maybe you should understand that SP can mean next to nothing. My friend's alt has 45 million SP, but hasn't trained 1 single combat skill aside from the ones that came with the character. If he decided to make the alt a PvP alt you'd have a better chance at fighting him than you would expect. /dangit, I fed the troll again didn't I?
Micia Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:42:00 - [10] Originally by: sxndy SP is overated, its what's inside your head that gets kills. This.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:44:00 - [11] Stop trolling Self-proclaimed idiot
Astrixx	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:45:00 - [12] Edited by: Astrixx on 26/06/2009 08:45:26 lol i like your name, I think the EVE universe needs a mshappypanties, don't quite mshappypanties!
I'mA Geezer Friends Of Derek	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:48:00 - [13] I've got 70 mill skill points and you could probably kill me. I'm a complete carebear pansy.
Zaiyo Modi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.26 08:56:00 - [14] Boo! This is an MMO ffs not necessarily a solo-gank-feel-good-game.
vulnevia North Star Networks	Posted - 2009.06.26 09:05:00 - [15] Edited by: vulnevia on 26/06/2009 09:06:11 After reading both this post and your post about being (boho) station camped in low sec I came to the conclusion that EVE isn't the game for you. What you want is a game where you can be safe all the time (which is NOT at all what EVE is), and you also said you wanted a PvP-free server. Now you're ranting about how everything takes for eeeeeever and that missions are boooooring. So? Quit EVE if it's so horrible. Start playing Hello Kitty Online och Maple Story or something else that will make you a happy pantie again. Coz now you're Miss Saurkraute Panties. -----
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.06.26 09:16:00 - [16] Eve is one of the most newb-friendly games out there, if not the most. Don't try to use SP as an excuse to mask your lack of ability. ------------------------------------------
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.06.26 09:25:00 - [17] Time spent in eve increased breadth it does not mean you are invincible. As others said earlier in the thread, that breadth doesn't really help you when your doing a specific task. For instance mining/building skills don't help in combat (and you'd be surprised how many pirates started out as miners/builders). Even if they are pure combat their ability to fly different size ships and even different races doesn't help them when flying a specific ship. If your willing to put in the time and especially if you get some help you can easily kill older pilots. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
R Mika	Posted - 2009.06.26 09:48:00 - [18]
Rellik B00n Lethal Death Squad	Posted - 2009.06.26 10:38:00 - [19] 1. troll. 2. like em or not, history of bees. 3. focused SP allocation. 4. MMO 5. most likely 1.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.06.26 10:43:00 - [20] My Carrier V makes me a god in a HAC skirmish! Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2009.06.26 10:59:00 - [21] Veldspar!

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.26 11:06:00 - [22] ~~my level 30 got pwnzord in w0w cuz the level 199's with their tier OVER 9000!!! gear are douchebags!~~ errm, my bad wrong game. I jump'd to lowsec in my hauler and got killed, I was going to rens from jita, there are pirate camps everwhere!!! nerf everyone but me!
TaluxA	Posted - 2009.06.26 11:10:00 - [23] Well... Gatecamps are avoidable. Check out your map, scout with an alt if neccessary. If you're in a frigate it's unlikely that a lowsec camp can catch you anyway. A lot of camps outside of notorious systems like Decon or Rancer are often just a few ships, which means they're nowhere near invincible. 0.0 is a different story of course. As for the skillpoint thing.. you're kind of right. A 1 million SP player can't beat a 20 million SP player in 99% of cases. But a 7 million SP player has quite a good chance at killing the vet, depending on what he or she is flying. Eve's skill system does flatten out after around six months, at which point you can pick a couple of ships to specialise and level up to V with. You won't be able to fly as many ships as the vet, that's true, but the ones you chose you'll be just as good as the best of them (potentially). It takes some patience for sure, but after you get over the SP 'bump' the game opens up a lot more. Or you can just join a good corp and get straight in the action.
Daemonspirit Redhawk Tribal Trust	Posted - 2009.06.26 11:12:00 - [24] Edited by: Daemonspirit on 26/06/2009 11:14:27 Contact me in game. There are only EVER five levels of learning associated with a ship. If you get your racial frigate to V, you have just caught up with EVERYONE in the game that has Frigate V... Same for Cruisers, BC's, BS's... A pilot with 100M skillpoints probably has 90% spread around in different areas. ALL his missile skills don't count towards his projectile skill, Projectile and Missile Skills don't count towards Hybrid skills... It comes down to this: With a warp disrupter/scram & webber, you Mr. Newplayer, can grab and hold a 100M sp player. NOTHING he can do about it. That older player may have more experience fighting and dying, but you can get that easy enough... :) Good luck m8, remember, you too can become rich and infamous if you want... but its up to you to do it! Originally by: Micia Originally by: sxndy SP is overated, its what's inside your head that gets kills. This. QFT! ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.26 11:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Daemonspirit With a warp disrupter/scram & webber, you Mr. Newplayer, can grab and hold a 100M sp player. NOTHING he can do about it. except ya know, shoot back, but small detail.
Daemonspirit Redhawk Tribal Trust	Posted - 2009.06.26 11:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Daemonspirit With a warp disrupter/scram & webber, you Mr. Newplayer, can grab and hold a 100M sp player. NOTHING he can do about it. except ya know, shoot back, but small detail. Yah, go play with your nano-carriers... :P ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.06.26 11:17:00 - [27] A drooling idiot with instant-gratification needs and no idea what he's doing is easily beaten by someone resource-full, intelligent with patience and a good plan. We need to DUMB DOWN THE GAME TO MAKE THE FORMER NOT FEEL LEFT OUT IN THE COLD!!!!!!!!
Chantilly Layce	Posted - 2009.06.26 11:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Mshappypanties For a game that takes forever to do anything in, it seems like a huge bucket of fail on the part of the developer to make such a disparity. In other games, where the death penalty isnt as extreme, there is a "level range" of which a player cannot attack. For instance in EQ1 on the Rallos Zek server you could not attack someone greater than 4 levels below you, but in EvE with HARSHER death penalties(in EQ1 you got one item from the person you killed) they allow for people with massive amounts of gametime to just destroy new players. I honestly think this is a huge fail that needs to be addressed. Well, you ain't in EQ anymore. Either learn the game well enough to pick fights you can win, nevermind making more educated posts, or GTFO. Your call.
TaluxA	Posted - 2009.06.26 11:20:00 - [29] Also you might find a lot of Eve players kinda hostile ;). But that's how people are I spose.
Lilla Kharn Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.26 11:22:00 - [30] Go home.
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.06.26 11:26:00 - [31] 125Mil Skills Points to show the OP is so far wrong it's untrue -- RaTTuS @ InEve, Capital Prints for sale
Dotard Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.06.26 12:07:00 - [32] 32,000,000 sp character here. And I have like zero industry, mining, carebearing skills. 99% of my skills are combat orientated. Never interested in any of that carebear industry stuffs. Had my a$$ handed to me on several occasions over the last couple years by small gangs (3-5) of noobs (none more than a month or two old). EW can really ruin someones day. Gang up with a few other noobs, fit some cheap ships and go attackin'. Remember to focus your fire. You'll lose some, you'll win some. And it will be fun for all. Well, except the one you decide to attack, won't be much fun for him.
Mordekai Bloodwake Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.26 12:21:00 - [33] Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in World of Warcraft i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has T6+ and is Level 80. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in EverQuest2 i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has Raid Gear and is Level 80 with maxed AA. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. FIXED Another fine example of Natural Selection!
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2009.06.26 12:52:00 - [34] I love the stupidity of most posters on these forums. The OP says I can't kill a higher SP player and instead of saying, yep, working as intended, they go all defensive and start spouting logical fallacies the most popular of which is the ad hominem logical fallacy. My own response to the OP is, l2p.
beor oranes Caldari The Capitalist Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.26 12:55:00 - [35] You need to get some friends and try again or go join Eve Uni and see what they do...they are scary!! They use the power of the noob. But seriously, SP helps but it only means you can fly more expensive ships, its player skill that counts for more than anything, check this video out : The CCP Test forum post is here : Forum Post to go with it
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.26 13:04:00 - [36] Everyone was a newbie. With the exception of the 2003 players, everyone competed with characters at least a year older than they were when they started. Everyone who still plays overcame this. Are you less capable?
Doctor Penguin Amarr Heavy Influence Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.26 13:14:00 - [37] Speaking as a seven month old EVE player, it's always more a question of who you're flying with than SP. High SP is really only useful for Lvl 4 mission running... ________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Soundwave Get out Mindstar, or I'll punch you in the ovaries.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.26 13:16:00 - [38] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Everyone was a newbie. With the exception of the 2003 players, everyone competed with characters at least a year older than they were when they started. Everyone who still plays overcame this. Are you less capable? I was gonna flame the OP for being a panzy, but this actually said it better and nicer. The game is not gonna change for you, so you either need to change or GTFO.
Tirenya Unity Of Legends	Posted - 2009.06.26 13:32:00 - [39] Originally by: TaluxA Also you might find a lot of Eve players kinda hostile ;). But that's how people are I spose. So true, people are so ANGRY ALL THE TIME... Calm down guys. Chortle :) __________________________________ Failing Miserably At Everything Since '05
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2009.06.26 14:28:00 - [40] Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. Better yet, these people sit around in 0.4 areas and make it completely pointless/stupid to even set foot in these areas. There is no exploration to be done because the gates are camped and you will get blown up right away. For a game that takes forever to do anything in, it seems like a huge bucket of fail on the part of the developer to make such a disparity. In other games, where the death penalty isnt as extreme, there is a "level range" of which a player cannot attack. For instance in EQ1 on the Rallos Zek server you could not attack someone greater than 4 levels below you, but in EvE with HARSHER death penalties(in EQ1 you got one item from the person you killed) they allow for people with massive amounts of gametime to just destroy new players. Honestly is there even a point to play if you're new? Other than running missions in high security(which I may add are very boring after the 15th one), its almost evident that one has to quit the game. Besides griefing in 0.4 gates, another pasttime of older players is to harass new players with can flipping and attacking them in high security. I think the only reason there are so many subscriptions is because people have 3-4 alts each... I think they need to make a restriction that you cant attack someone that has 5M+ skill points less than you other than sanctioned areas. I honestly think this is a huge fail that needs to be addressed. Yes, you wont have a chance against the old vets. Not because of the sp difference wich means nothing at all! No, you wont have a chance against the vets because you lack basic understanding of EVE Online. Because if you had, you would never have made this post at all. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Drakarin Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.26 14:35:00 - [41] I would prefer an element of skill be added to all of the tactical, for example being able to pilot smaller ships like frigates, destroyers, maybe even cruisers, manually. This would be most interesting. Evasive patterns and manual fire; oh the love! But really, even a low skilled player can specialize in electronic warfare and be useful to a corp. But in solo PvP, you're correct. You can rarely ever win.
xXxSatsujinxXx Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen	Posted - 2009.06.26 14:40:00 - [42] Mshappypanties is a known troll. Please don't feed her. She tried the "I'm a girl and people are mean to me, they camped me in a station even though i asked them not to..." a while back. Just stop poasting. Please.
Mshappypanties	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:36:00 - [43] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in World of Warcraft i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has T6+ and is Level 80. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in EverQuest2 i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has Raid Gear and is Level 80 with maxed AA. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. FIXED Another fine example of Natural Selection! Hardly, but nice try. Its obvious you didnt play either one of those games before you made a comment, and I have. In both of those games when you die the consequence is that you just run back to your corpse and resurrect with all your equipment, experience and items. The run typically lasts no more than 5 minutes. In EVE, you can lose months of work just because someone has been playing longer
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:40:00 - [44] Originally by: Mshappypanties Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in World of Warcraft i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has T6+ and is Level 80. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in EverQuest2 i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has Raid Gear and is Level 80 with maxed AA. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. FIXED Another fine example of Natural Selection! Hardly, but nice try. Its obvious you didnt play either one of those games before you made a comment, and I have. In both of those games when you die the consequence is that you just run back to your corpse and resurrect with all your equipment, experience and items. The run typically lasts no more than 5 minutes. In EVE, you can lose months of work just because someone has been playing longer I once stopped a carrier from escaping by putting a warp scrambler on an ibis and orbiting in the middle of a fleet fight.
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:42:00 - [45] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in World of Warcraft i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has T6+ and is Level 80. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. As a new Level 1 player in EverQuest2 i have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has Raid Gear and is Level 80 with maxed AA. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. FIXED Another fine example of Natural Selection! Just that you know all this makes me want to hurt you (in game)
Diicc Tater Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:42:00 - [46] Eve, just like hollywood, is all about who you know and who you fly with.
Kale Kold Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:44:00 - [47] Originally by: sxndy SP is overated, its what's inside your head that gets kills. Agreed! This is my experience also!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:48:00 - [48] While the previous thread of the OP might have been a pretty constructive (even if obvious) troll, this one doesn't really look that constructive at all, and still an obvious troll EVE issues\|Mining revamp\|Build stuff\|Make ISK
Thuranni ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:52:00 - [49] Read this. When Goonswarm first entered EVE, they were mocked as a group of hopeless newbies that would never amount to anything. Today, they are one of the dominant 0.0 entities and just destroyed Band of Brothers, which had been the most powerful 0.0 alliance since 2004. It is very possible for newbies to compete, you just haven't figured out how yet.
Mshappypanties	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:59:00 - [50] Originally by: Thuranni Read this. It is very possible for newbies to compete, you just haven't figured out how yet. by outnumbering 10 to 1?
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:09:00 - [51] Originally by: Mshappypanties Hardly, but nice try. Its obvious you didnt play either one of those games before you made a comment, and I have. In both of those games when you die the consequence is that you just run back to your corpse and resurrect with all your equipment, experience and items. The run typically lasts no more than 5 minutes. In EVE, you can lose months of work just because someone has been playing longer It seems I respond to this sorta thing alot. I run a small corp with a few other veterans. We got our friends interested in playing and they've since joined. They're less than two months old, under 2 million SP. In that time they've run gatecamps, flown in class 3 and 4 wormholes, and run level 4s. They've mined, helped set up a POS, and started manufacturing and research. None of them are experts in what they do, but they're certainly competitive, and they're a damn good help. Plenty of people above have illusrtated the fact that pure SP does not account for much. You can certainly be competitive pursuing a specific track. I've seen 6 month old characters flying dreadnoughts (something I can't do even given 4 years in EVE). A titan was taken out the other day thanks to a lone interceptor pilot. How much SP did that take? It's true you can certainly stand to lose a lot in EVE if you're not careful. The standard grind for that epic item and piling everything on your character (or ship in this case) definitally won't work here. Take the time to learn from people who have come before and you'll learn that there are plenty of ways to mitigate loss while still maximizing your fun. If this still doesn't sound good, then that's ok. This game isn't for everyone. There is loss, yes. But in those same mechanics that allow for the agony of defeat also produce the most incredible feelings of accomplishment and victory. How many here have participated in conflicts that have removed entire alliances from the game? Think of all of the people who traded, mined, researched, and manufactured the lowliest warp disruptor that resulted in holding the capital ship, who's destruction spelled the end for the work of thousands of players? Or charged an enemy fleet with little more than a few scrapped together railguns? Whether they won or lost doesn't diminish from the fact that these battles change the face of EVE, and the world here is much different than it first was. Last I checked in WoW (and I played earlier this week with my gf) the Alliance is still battling the horde, and always will. If you want to kill the same PCs over and over again with nothing to show for it, or fling yourself into battle time and time again with little more on the line than a minor gear repair cost, be our guest. There's something to be said for casual play, and I don't think anyone here doesn't enjoy it from time to time. But if you want to find fun and enjoyment here, then you'll going to have to adopt a new paradigm. The old patterns and strategies don't apply here. This is EVE Online.
Drakarin Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:17:00 - [52] What people have said is simple and can be summed up like this: Skill points in Solo PvP = Extremely important. Everything depends on this, and the luck of the encounter. Skill points in Solo PvE = Important, but the risk is much less than in PvP. Skill points in Fleet PvP = Far less important. Specialization into the role assigned to you is all that matters. You can be effective in fleets in a week. Skill points in fleet PvE = moderately important, again depending on your role and what you're taking on.
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:21:00 - [53] Originally by: Mshappypanties I honestly think this is a huge fail that needs to be addressed. You know what makes this a troll post? Your in-game name. You should have called yourself "Mistress Happy Panties". And then in your Bio you need to put "Me love you long time, 5 dollar".
Mshappypanties	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:23:00 - [54] Honestly is the job of a new player to "tackle", because I dont know anyone that started playing this game so they can spam anti warp and webbing on someone while someone else does the actual killing...
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:34:00 - [55] How would you know enough players to make any judgement, your new arn't you? Or did this fantasy land boyfriend of yours tell you? Your posts are about as convincing as your name and also completely wrong, but that is not something you care about Mr Troll.
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:37:00 - [56] Originally by: Mshappypanties Honestly is the job of a new player to "tackle", because I dont know anyone that started playing this game so they can spam anti warp and webbing on someone while someone else does the actual killing... You can't kill anything without a point on it. Weapons are useless if your target warps before you can even lock. When I first started EVE I joined a little 0.0 corp soon after. I was only really effective in frigates at first, so I trained a bit as tackler. It was fantastic. Nothing more fulfilling then watching someone's 100mil battleship go down the drain because your 500k ISK frigate put a point on it so your buddies could pound it to scrap. Look on any major alliance's KB and you'll see who gets the majority of the credit for good kills: The interceptor pilots. But look, you're not delegated to that alone. In less than a month you can be in a cruiser. Two you can be in a battlecruiser. Battleships arn't too far behind. Don't like PvP? Work the market. Takes next to nothing skills, and the money you can make is tremendous. There's always a role. When we do wormhole ops, the veterans fly in battleships. We can't hit the frigates for crap. It's our 1.5mil n00bs who take care of those. And they save our butts when we get scrambled and getting the crap pounded out of us by a pile of turrets. There's lots of better examples, and the tools are here. You just started and got your head handed to you by a 20mil SP player. He beat you not because he has more skillpoints, but because you got goaded into fighting him or he made better tactical decisions than you did. If you just ran up and expected to out slug him, then of course you're going to get podded. Is a level 40 going to take out a level 80 in WoW? Hell no. If anything, EVE makes it MORE possible for the underdog to win. But you're going to have to understand that it's not about levels or XP or skillpoints that make you a better combat player. Experience is all that matters here, and the sooner you learn that the better off you'll be. So pick yourself up, wipe off the dirt, and instead of whining in General Discussion, go over to the "New Player Center", or "Ships and Modules", or "Warfare and Tactics" or any other of the number of boards here that will teach you how to play. There are tons of people here willing to help you, but they have absolutely no pity for griping. See you there.
Sloppy Podfarts	Posted - 2009.06.26 16:55:00 - [57] Originally by: Regat Kozovv Take the time to learn ... This is where all these kids fail. (seriously, imagine how helpless they must be IRL)
Part II	Posted - 2009.06.26 17:09:00 - [58] It's true that op is a troll, but there is some merit to what the person is saying. Realistically, one can't do much real pvp until around 7-8 million skill points minimum unless in a gang. And most gangs want little to do with players who don't yet understand the game, nor have the ability to use most of its features. Having the navigation, mechanic, engineering, electronics etc. skills and ALL their support skills makes a huge difference. Having tech 2 modules in possibly a tech 2 ship with all of the offensive support skills takes a bunch of time. Once you have those, obviously it gets easier, but a new character also probably invests some points into learning and other side skills so that their character is moderately playable (things like trade, scanning, etc). Eve is a very interesting game, and obviously offers MUCH more to the veteran player than most other mmos and games in general. For that it does deserve credit, but realistically, between the huge skill point disparity (and in game-skill gap) of older players and newer ones and, frankly, one of the worst user interfaces in modern games, you do kind of get a recipe for disaster that can wear on all but the most hardened masochists who also have an extreme penchant for computer games.
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.06.26 17:47:00 - [59] Edited by: Zartanic on 26/06/2009 17:49:21 Well I see no merit at all. Unlike all other MMORPG's I know a player can play with higher levels from week one. All I see is someone unwilling to learn. There are countless posts about how new players can have a good experience, but the Op, being a Troll, does not care about that. Unlike a game like WOW which has no risk and therefore no sense of achievement or need to learn anything this game offers that. All I see is a lazy player, common in other MMROPG's and pandered to by the game makers a lot more as money is all those Devs care about now, but not here which is why I'm playing EVE and not another version of Kitty Island Adventure. This game is for players who like things hard and challenging, its the whole point of it. I came back to Eve from playing 4 years in WOW to get away from these kind of people. They wrecked one game already, don't let them wreck this one as they will given half a chance. Give them an inch and they will take a mile and then they will STILL moan for more.
Mshappypanties	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:02:00 - [60] Originally by: Zartanic Edited by: Zartanic on 26/06/2009 17:49:21 Well I see no merit at all. Unlike all other MMORPG's I know a player can play with higher levels from week one. All I see is someone unwilling to learn. There are countless posts about how new players can have a good experience, but the Op, being a Troll, does not care about that. Unlike a game like WOW which has no risk and therefore no sense of achievement or need to learn anything this game offers that. All I see is a lazy player, common in other MMROPG's and pandered to by the game makers a lot more as money is all those Devs care about now, but not here which is why I'm playing EVE and not another version of Kitty Island Adventure. This game is for players who like things hard and challenging, its the whole point of it. I came back to Eve from playing 4 years in WOW to get away from these kind of people. They wrecked one game already, don't let them wreck this one as they will given half a chance. Give them an inch and they will take a mile and then they will STILL moan for more. Hardly, Its one thing to learn(sorry but the game isnt as complicated as you want to make it out to be) and another thing when veteran players grief new people before we can even get started. New players already have it hard by trying to make money, but when we finally get a decent ship to do missions, you guys go and destroy it as soon as we warp. I also love the fact that veteran players go into newbie areas and drop cans all over the place, which causes us to lose a ship because we are learning. Wonderful idea! In other games like wow, people grief but the fact of the matter is that you dont lose weeks worth of grinding missions due to some jerk.
Rua Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:02:00 - [61] There is a video over in my eve of two 2day old rifter pilots out killing people and having fun pvp'ing and generally harrasing people. Skill points are not a factor, game knowledge and skills behind the keyboard are.
Mshappypanties	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:11:00 - [62] Originally by: Rua There is a video over in my eve of two 2day old rifter pilots out killing people and having fun pvp'ing and generally harrasing people. Skill points are not a factor, game knowledge and skills behind the keyboard are. Skills behind the keyboard? This whole game you click.......You dont even control your ship by maneuvering or avoiding shots, its just about who has more skills = more dmg
Commander Yassir Perkone	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:32:00 - [63] Originally by: Mshappypanties I think they need to make a restriction that you cant attack someone that has 5M+ skill points less than you other than sanctioned areas. I honestly think this is a huge fail that needs to be addressed. You know Runescape used to do something like that right? Even they realized it was a terrible idea and it was scrapped. ~ The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on.
Sidrat Flush Caldari Life is Experience New Eden Hardware Emporium	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:34:00 - [64] Originally by: Mshappypanties Originally by: Rua There is a video over in my eve of two 2day old rifter pilots out killing people and having fun pvp'ing and generally harrasing people. Skill points are not a factor, game knowledge and skills behind the keyboard are. Skills behind the keyboard? This whole game you click.......You dont even control your ship by maneuvering or avoiding shots, its just about who has more skills = more dmg More skills = more choice, IF and only IF you specialise will you be on a level playing field with 40M+ SP characters. I believe if you don't like the way skill training and character development is dealt with in Eve you should just leave it alone. Personally I think it's genious. It doesn't cater (much) to those with masses amount of time to play the game and it doesn't damage you if you can only play a few hours a week (now there's the training queue, skills get done...not faster... but certainly with less downtime.) Oh and the importance of Transversal Velocity and Distance from target you should learn about yourself, it'll make it that more sweeter when you understand. "PvP is about attitude first, game mechanic knowledge second and character Skill point probably fifth. Third would be to bring friends along and fourth would be to realise this is a multiplayer game so the more contacts you get (if you don't like calling the people you talk to online "friends"), the more enjoyable and faster the learning cycle generally is. Happy trolling although I like the name as well. EXP-L Eve Industrial Organiser
Drakarin Gallente Amarrian-Guard	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:45:00 - [65] Edited by: Drakarin on 26/06/2009 18:45:51 Originally by: Sidrat Flush Originally by: Mshappypanties Originally by: Rua There is a video over in my eve of two 2day old rifter pilots out killing people and having fun pvp'ing and generally harrasing people. Skill points are not a factor, game knowledge and skills behind the keyboard are. Skills behind the keyboard? This whole game you click.......You dont even control your ship by maneuvering or avoiding shots, its just about who has more skills = more dmg More skills = more choice, IF and only IF you specialise will you be on a level playing field with 40M+ SP characters. I believe if you don't like the way skill training and character development is dealt with in Eve you should just leave it alone. Personally I think it's genious. It doesn't cater (much) to those with masses amount of time to play the game and it doesn't damage you if you can only play a few hours a week (now there's the training queue, skills get done...not faster... but certainly with less downtime.) Oh and the importance of Transversal Velocity and Distance from target you should learn about yourself, it'll make it that more sweeter when you understand. "PvP is about attitude first, game mechanic knowledge second and character Skill point probably fifth. Third would be to bring friends along and fourth would be to realise this is a multiplayer game so the more contacts you get (if you don't like calling the people you talk to online "friends"), the more enjoyable and faster the learning cycle generally is. Happy trolling although I like the name as well. Error. Solo PvP is entirely luck based unless you can cloak, at which point it's knowledge base. Skill doesn't come into play anywhere, just experience. There's no twitch factor, not even a little bit of it.
Mshappypanties	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:46:00 - [66] I'm doing missions now so that I can hopefully afford to fit a frigate or something...Its pretty daunting to make money when the whole community seems to be working against you. SEems like I'm playing against the computer AND other players
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:48:00 - [67] Originally by: Mshappypanties I'm doing missions now so that I can hopefully afford to fit a frigate or something...Its pretty daunting to make money when the whole community seems to be working against you. SEems like I'm playing against the computer AND other players OMG!!! Forced interaction!!!!! How on earth will you cope! But seriously, you expect to play a PVP game without being forced to interact? This isn't WOW, so live with it. ________________________________________________ Check out my ideas! New Destroyers
Drakarin Gallente Amarrian-Guard	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:50:00 - [68] Originally by: Bibbleibble Originally by: Mshappypanties I'm doing missions now so that I can hopefully afford to fit a frigate or something...Its pretty daunting to make money when the whole community seems to be working against you. SEems like I'm playing against the computer AND other players OMG!!! Forced interaction!!!!! How on earth will you cope! But seriously, you expect to play a PVP game without being forced to interact? This isn't WOW, so live with it. You aren't forced into PvP though. Not even one bit. It's entirely consensual. The only exception to this is if you don't understand the game mechanics, or suicide ganking.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:52:00 - [69] Originally by: Mshappypanties I'm doing missions now so that I can hopefully afford to fit a frigate or something...Its pretty daunting to make money when the whole community seems to be working against you. SEems like I'm playing against the computer AND other players Correct.
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:52:00 - [70] Originally by: Drakarin Originally by: Bibbleibble Originally by: Mshappypanties I'm doing missions now so that I can hopefully afford to fit a frigate or something...Its pretty daunting to make money when the whole community seems to be working against you. SEems like I'm playing against the computer AND other players OMG!!! Forced interaction!!!!! How on earth will you cope! But seriously, you expect to play a PVP game without being forced to interact? This isn't WOW, so live with it. You aren't forced into PvP though. Not even one bit. It's entirely consensual. The only exception to this is if you don't understand the game mechanics, or suicide ganking. I didn't mean PVP so much as interaction, which CCP have made very clear is supposed to happen in every action you take. (Note: this may be physical Pew-pew PVP, or market PVP) ________________________________________________ Check out my ideas! New Destroyers
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:53:00 - [71] Quote: As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. Better yet, these people sit around in 0.4 areas and make it completely pointless/stupid to even set foot in these areas. There is no exploration to be done because the gates are camped and you will get blown up right away. \ Aren't you the same troll that complained that gatecampers didn't let you pass just because you asked tehm nicely? Go away, troll.
Rua Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:02:00 - [72] Actually micro management to run say a double rep hyperion while fighting outnumbered and keeping your drones up and your cap alive is behind the keyboard skills. Flying a close range frigate against a long range frigate in a dogfight is behind the keyboard skills as the best reactions and gameplan wins, have seen many T1 frig pilots catch and kill interceptors that should always beat them in EFT. Saying that eve is nothing more than F1-F8 is false in many situations, though admitedly true in some :)
Drakarin Gallente Amarrian-Guard	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:03:00 - [73] Originally by: Bibbleibble Originally by: Drakarin Originally by: Bibbleibble Originally by: Mshappypanties I'm doing missions now so that I can hopefully afford to fit a frigate or something...Its pretty daunting to make money when the whole community seems to be working against you. SEems like I'm playing against the computer AND other players OMG!!! Forced interaction!!!!! How on earth will you cope! But seriously, you expect to play a PVP game without being forced to interact? This isn't WOW, so live with it. You aren't forced into PvP though. Not even one bit. It's entirely consensual. The only exception to this is if you don't understand the game mechanics, or suicide ganking. I didn't mean PVP so much as interaction, which CCP have made very clear is supposed to happen in every action you take. (Note: this may be physical Pew-pew PVP, or market PVP) This is true. Interaction is mandatory, but why on earth would you play an MMO if you don't even like to interact with people on a market level?
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:09:00 - [74] Originally by: Drakarin This is true. Interaction is mandatory, but why on earth would you play an MMO if you don't even like to interact with people on a market level? I don't know, why would you?
Mia Zheng	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:14:00 - [75] Originally by: Mshappypanties Honestly is the job of a new player to "tackle", because I dont know anyone that started playing this game so they can spam anti warp and webbing on someone while someone else does the actual killing... when I first played the game that is exactly what I did.. 6 months into the game and I killed a guy 2 years older then me 1v1
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:14:00 - [76] Edited by: Zartanic on 26/06/2009 19:15:52 Originally by: Mshappypanties Originally by: Zartanic Edited by: Zartanic on 26/06/2009 17:49:21 Well I see no merit at all. Unlike all other MMORPG's I know a player can play with higher levels from week one. All I see is someone unwilling to learn. There are countless posts about how new players can have a good experience, but the Op, being a Troll, does not care about that. Unlike a game like WOW which has no risk and therefore no sense of achievement or need to learn anything this game offers that. All I see is a lazy player, common in other MMROPG's and pandered to by the game makers a lot more as money is all those Devs care about now, but not here which is why I'm playing EVE and not another version of Kitty Island Adventure. This game is for players who like things hard and challenging, its the whole point of it. I came back to Eve from playing 4 years in WOW to get away from these kind of people. They wrecked one game already, don't let them wreck this one as they will given half a chance. Give them an inch and they will take a mile and then they will STILL moan for more. Hardly, Its one thing to learn(sorry but the game isnt as complicated as you want to make it out to be) and another thing when veteran players grief new people before we can even get started. New players already have it hard by trying to make money, but when we finally get a decent ship to do missions, you guys go and destroy it as soon as we warp. I also love the fact that veteran players go into newbie areas and drop cans all over the place, which causes us to lose a ship because we are learning. Wonderful idea! In other games like wow, people grief but the fact of the matter is that you dont lose weeks worth of grinding missions due to some jerk. I have been playing for 6weeks, been in and out of low sec many times and I have not been attacked once. If I had I would have had a decent chance to escape. If I had died I would not have been stupid enough to take a ship I was unhappy losing. That's obvious and its clear from the second you install the game. If you did not research this game properly that's your fault, no one else's. IF you had spent a few minutes on these forums you would have seen extensive posts giving assistance to new players. That's what I did, why did you not do that? That's too much effort for you? There is a lot more to this game than 'clicking buttons'. In PVP you win or lose from choices you made long before you start fighting. It is complicated as the solutions are not obvious but they are there, learn to think and LEARN from you mistakes. WOW players moan, EVE players learn. It's a massive difference and if you can't grasp that then you will hate this game. What killed you was not those players, you killed yourself. This game has consequences for being dumb or lazy, not being willing to lose, you discovered that, now sit back and decide if that is the sort of game you want or not.
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:20:00 - [77] Edited by: Kessiaan on 26/06/2009 19:26:01 "How many skillpoints do I need to catch up to vets?" My answer is still, "However many you have when you realize you're asking the wrong question." I first kill in this game was a canflipper when I was all of two weeks old. Up until a little over a year ago I was a hardcore minerbear. When I first went into lowsec when FW was shiny and new I flew a Tristan with the SP equivalent of a two-month old noob. I flew that Tristan for damn near six months, I did very with it. Now I fly mostly AFs and T1 cruisers and I routinely engage people with double or more my raw SP total. And now, after playing this game damn near two years, I'm just now skilling into tech II cruisers, and tbh I don't even plan on using them much 'cause they're so expensive to lose. It's all about specialization - core fitting skills take like a month, at the most. After that more SPs give you more options, nothing else.
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:25:00 - [78] Sadly, many of the oldtimers are no longer around and the players behind those accounts are newbies anyway. He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Zartanic	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:31:00 - [79] Edited by: Zartanic on 26/06/2009 19:32:46 Really WOW has spoiled so many players they see games like watching TV, seeing the world go by with no effort and it all being handed on a plate. Learning how to play the game is a concept well beyond them. Decent players in WOW are now very rare, I hope it stays dumbed down so other games can keep their integrity and not be infected by these people. I'm no WOW hater but unfortunately that game has ruined many peoples perceptions of what a MMORPG is all about and made them the laziest players in any MMORPG.
Sosus Red Caldari Frontier Voyagers Crimson Dragons	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:35:00 - [80] another "cant compete with old players" thread. My advice, get together with your fellow noobs in a group of 20 or so assault frigates and go around and pwn everyone. I used to do thaT AND IT IS VERY EFFECTIVE. Newer players can get into assault frigates in a relatively short period of time and the skills that it takes to get into one will help you get inot something better down the road.
Kuar Z'thain Fraser's Finest Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:36:00 - [81] You're still feeding it?
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:38:00 - [82] Quote: Error. Solo PvP is entirely luck based unless you can cloak, at which point it's knowledge base. Skill doesn't come into play anywhere, just experience. There's no twitch factor, not even a little bit of it. Error. Do not confuse twitch factor with skill. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Awesome Possum Insert Obscure Latin Name	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:38:00 - [83] Originally by: Mshappypanties As a new player I have absolutely no hope at killing another player that has over 20M+ skill points. The disparity is so large it is almost pointless to even try. Better yet, these people sit around in 0.4 areas and make it completely pointless/stupid to even set foot in these areas. There is no exploration to be done because the gates are camped and you will get blown up right away. For a game that takes forever to do anything in, it seems like a huge bucket of fail on the part of the developer to make such a disparity. In other games, where the death penalty isnt as extreme, there is a "level range" of which a player cannot attack. For instance in EQ1 on the Rallos Zek server you could not attack someone greater than 4 levels below you, but in EvE with HARSHER death penalties(in EQ1 you got one item from the person you killed) they allow for people with massive amounts of gametime to just destroy new players. Honestly is there even a point to play if you're new? Other than running missions in high security(which I may add are very boring after the 15th one), its almost evident that one has to quit the game. Besides griefing in 0.4 gates, another pasttime of older players is to harass new players with can flipping and attacking them in high security. I think the only reason there are so many subscriptions is because people have 3-4 alts each... I think they need to make a restriction that you cant attack someone that has 5M+ skill points less than you other than sanctioned areas. I honestly think this is a huge fail that needs to be addressed. I'm a 4 month old character. I blow up older characters regularly enough to be entertained. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Atrum Monstrum	Posted - 2009.06.26 19:44:00 - [84] Edited by: Atrum Monstrum on 26/06/2009 19:43:54 Originally by: Thuranni Today, they are one of the dominant 0.0 entities and just destroyed Band of Brothers, which had been the most powerful 0.0 alliance since 2004. Sorry to have to correct but Goonswarm did NOT destroy BoB. BoB was destroyed by BoB through the form of a disgruntled member. Goonswarm took advanatge of the opportunity but Goonswarm DID NOT have a direct casue in the fall of BoB.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.26 20:05:00 - [85] Originally by: Atrum Monstrum Edited by: Atrum Monstrum on 26/06/2009 19:43:54 Originally by: Thuranni Today, they are one of the dominant 0.0 entities and just destroyed Band of Brothers, which had been the most powerful 0.0 alliance since 2004. Sorry to have to correct but Goonswarm did NOT destroy BoB. BoB was destroyed by BoB through the form of a disgruntled member. Goonswarm took advanatge of the opportunity but Goonswarm DID NOT have a direct casue in the fall of BoB. Get real. Haargorth gave them an opening, but RSF/NC still had a lot to do. They had no advantage over BoB with respect to sov in Delve. Sov1 left both sides on an equal footing in that respect.
Bestofworst Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.26 20:17:00 - [86] Originally by: Atrum Monstrum Edited by: Atrum Monstrum on 26/06/2009 19:43:54 Originally by: Thuranni Today, they are one of the dominant 0.0 entities and just destroyed Band of Brothers, which had been the most powerful 0.0 alliance since 2004. Sorry to have to correct but Goonswarm did NOT destroy BoB. BoB was destroyed by BoB through the form of a disgruntled member. Goonswarm took advanatge of the opportunity but Goonswarm DID NOT have a direct casue in the fall of BoB. And goons just beat bob again. ---- My Music
Surotai Amarr Dark Sabaoth	Posted - 2009.06.26 20:40:00 - [87] Old hat whine. Even in the month or two Ive played Ive seen this too much. Either invest the effort for a long term payoff or find something with instant gratification. If you looking for the latter this is NOT that game for you.
xXxSatsujinxXx Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen	Posted - 2009.06.26 20:53:00 - [88] Originally by: xXxSatsujinxXx Mshappypanties is a known troll. Please don't feed her. She tried the "I'm a girl and people are mean to me, they camped me in a station even though i asked them not to..." a while back. Just stop poasting. Please.

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