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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.07.05 15:45:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 05/07/2009 15:45:50
 Originally by: Caelum Dominus
Yeah, let's continue to nerf the **** out of PvP because you don't like it. On a more helpful note, there's no need to scan for probes in the first place. Just stay aligned and warp whenever someone decloaks. It's that easy.
1) less probability to survive in hostile environment = less targets
2) you cant stay aligned all the time (try hacking a can for instance in a BC/BS aligned to the next planet, LOL)
3) less targets = more PvP'er whine on the forums about scarceness of targets (as if it isn't already as bad as it could be, but looks like you clueless knucklehead really want more of it)
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Spurty
Caldari
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 15:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Exlegion
Are you suggesting I should have players donate their time to protect me while I run my missions? Will your own corporation do me the honor?
I would if you were in my corp, sure. More than happy to come to the aid of a corp mate, especially if there is pvp involved.
But, alas, you aren't so offer only extended as far as the alliance I'm in.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
hi cat here
i was thinking earlier about corpses...
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Spurty
Caldari
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:01:00 -
[33]
I'm staying neutral as far as probing goes, I have little difficulty probing people, however having waited on others to probe a logged out and aggressed target for over 10mins, its clear to me, its not simple to everyone.
There are some issues with people running missions outside of highsec and not watching local mind you. You need to control the system else you might as well dock.
There is power in numbers (sadly this is the trump card in EVE).
solo players are very poorly catered for. Market pvp is probably the only truly safe (never lose a ship or your implants if you don't undock) solo profession.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
hi cat here
i was thinking earlier about corpses...
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:03:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 05/07/2009 16:04:39
Originally by: Tres Farmer
1) less probability to survive in hostile environment = less targets
This is the wrong way to go about introducing people to low-sec. It should be done by increasing the reward, not lowering the risk.
Originally by: Tres Farmer
2) you cant stay aligned all the time (try hacking a can for instance in a BC/BS aligned to the next planet, LOL)
You're not supposed to be 100% safe.
Originally by: Tres Farmer
3) less targets = more PvP'er whine on the forums about scarceness of targets (as if it isn't already as bad as it could be, but looks like you clueless knucklehead really want more of it)
See #1.
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Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:09:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 16:12:50
Caelum Dominus,
You don't find that having to spam the scan button every 5 seconds in order to find out if you're being probed unrealistic? Try running a mission while spamming a button every 5 seconds to see how long it takes you to go insane. Don't forget to go over the results each and every time looking for the probes. If you have run even one mission in low sec you will know exactly what I'm talking about.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Spurty
Caldari
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:12:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Exlegion
Try running a mission while spamming a button every 5 seconds to see how long it takes you to go insane.
this is why I'm against local going away without an equivalent passive way to generate this intel. Its just going to drive the wrong people away and be such a joke in the gaming industry.
Can't wait for the Penny Arcade send up of it.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
hi cat here
i was thinking earlier about corpses...
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:15:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 05/07/2009 16:15:45
Originally by: Exlegion
Caelum Dominus,
You don't find that having to spam the scan button every 5 seconds in order to find out if you're being probed unrealistic? Try running a mission while spamming a button every 5 seconds to see how long it takes you to go insane.
I find it completely ridiculous, but seeing that it makes you 110% safe (something that goes against the very essence of EVE) I think it's reasonable.
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KaarBaak
Minmatar
Squirrel Team
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:17:00 -
[38]
In a lot of movies/TV shows, ships are alerted by their on-board sensors (module?) that they are being scanned.
Nothing detailed, just an alert that your ship has been hit by a probe scan.
KB |
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:21:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 05/07/2009 16:23:58
Originally by: Exlegion
Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 16:12:50
Caelum Dominus,
You don't find that having to spam the scan button every 5 seconds in order to find out if you're being probed unrealistic? Try running a mission while spamming a button every 5 seconds to see how long it takes you to go insane. Don't forget to go over the results each and every time looking for the probes. If you have run even one mission in low sec you will know exactly what I'm talking about.
Its alot worse with complex's mate. Considering 1. Some love to despawn if you warp out half way done. 2. You then have to look for core probes, aswell as combat probes. 3. Escalations seem to love sending me to Genesis, around the mission hubs where pirate corps hang 
We need an auto-scan every 5 seconds, and to be able to add probes to the overview OR better filter out scan results.
EDIT: Also it doesn't make you 100% safe. And in the cases it does (Safespot + cloak) you are haulted in doing anything yourself. Its not like you're still constantly making safe money, the risks are there all the time, and once someone has probed you out they can camp your mission till you return. All this time you're making zero isk.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: KaarBaak
In a lot of movies/TV shows, ships are alerted by their on-board sensors (module?) that they are being scanned.
Nothing detailed, just an alert that your ship has been hit by a probe scan.
Hey, I have a better idea; why don't we just have the pilot probing announce "I AM A PIRATE AND I AM GOING TO KILL YOU, AND NOW I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE" in local automatically?
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:53:00 -
[41]
I believe that the best solution to this would be to allow probes to be filtered for on the scanner, and to have an auto-repeat feature which re-scans every 5 seconds.
Killboard - Declarations of War Podcast |
Sorted
Highwaymen
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:41:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 17:42:45
Originally by: Jimer Lins
I believe that the best solution to this would be to allow probes to be filtered for on the scanner, and to have an auto-repeat feature which re-scans every 5 seconds.
nice way to make the game cater for the lazy.
Why not just have an "auto Mission" button that completes it for him, holds correct ranges + alingment, monitors scans and docks when in danger. he comes back after work X100M Richer each day.
OR he could get his lazy ass back to hi sec. If he doesnt know by now to jet can on the mission entry point and move 50k away, staying alinged then i'm sure theres a handful of tricks he missing which will result in more "exploit" complaints... BACK TO HI SEC NUBBER
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:42:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sorted
Originally by: Jimer Lins
I believe that the best solution to this would be to allow probes to be filtered for on the scanner, and to have an auto-repeat feature which re-scans every 5 seconds.
nice way to make the game cater for the lazy.
Why not just have an "auto Mission" button that completes it for him, holds correct ranges + alingment, monitors scans and docks when in danger. he comes back after work X100M Richer each day.
Because an autorepeat on scanner completely removes every risk in lowsec, C/D
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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Sorted
Highwaymen
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:43:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 17:46:24
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Sorted
Originally by: Jimer Lins
I believe that the best solution to this would be to allow probes to be filtered for on the scanner, and to have an auto-repeat feature which re-scans every 5 seconds.
nice way to make the game cater for the lazy.
Why not just have an "auto Mission" button that completes it for him, holds correct ranges + alingment, monitors scans and docks when in danger. he comes back after work X100M Richer each day.
Because an autorepeat on scanner completely removes every risk in lowsec, C/D
lazy... not all risk he could still sit still like a stoned monkey while tackled... just LAZY, c/d?
If he cant be botherd to scan, ok.. auto scanner.
What about alinging out? Auto alingment. Ok
Watching local? how about a big warning pop up NEW LOCAL AWWOOGH.
Clicking warp to dock. CBA? ok. auto warp to dock. hell you would do it, so why not take away the effort. OK. thats in
Whats next?
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:48:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Sorted
Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 17:46:24
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Sorted
Originally by: Jimer Lins
I believe that the best solution to this would be to allow probes to be filtered for on the scanner, and to have an auto-repeat feature which re-scans every 5 seconds.
nice way to make the game cater for the lazy.
Why not just have an "auto Mission" button that completes it for him, holds correct ranges + alingment, monitors scans and docks when in danger. he comes back after work X100M Richer each day.
Because an autorepeat on scanner completely removes every risk in lowsec, C/D
lazy... not all risk he could still sit still like a stoned monkey while tackled... just LAZY, c/d?
If he cant be botherd to scan, ok.. auto scanner.
What about alinging out? Auto alingment. Ok
Watching local? how about a big warning pop up NEW LOCAL AWWOOGH.
Clicking warp to dock. CBA? ok. auto warp to dock. hell you would do it, so why not take away the effort. OK. thats in
Whats next?
People said the same thing about the skill queue, and since its implimentation i've only seen 3! threads about extending it and 2! of those were because they didnt graso how the limit actually worked.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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Sorted
Highwaymen
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:52:00 -
[46]
What? Your saying the game isnt catering to the lazy more so than it did in the past? Or that it is, buts it ok atm.
Wheres the line which CCP will inevitbly cross for you?
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Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:00:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 18:06:00
Originally by: Sorted
OR he could get his lazy ass back to hi sec. If he doesnt know by now to jet can on the mission entry point and move 50k away, staying alinged then i'm sure theres a handful of tricks he missing which will result in more "exploit" complaints... BACK TO HI SEC NUBBER
Relax, take a deep breath. I'm merely pointing out that having to press a button every 5 seconds is not realistic. You're going on a tangent and you seem to be losing your temper on the way. Re-read the OP and feel free to give your opinions on the subject. But just to clear some misconceptions from your behalf, I'm not a "nubber"; been running missions in low sec space for a long time now. My issue isn't with staying aligned or moving 50,000 meters away from the warp-in point. The only other thing I can suggest you to do to better understand the issue is run missions yourself. Give it a try. Do it in low sec. Spam the button every 5 seconds, go through the results, and then come share your findings with us.
By the way, try to add more substance besides calling me "lazy", a "monkey", or "nubber". That's all fine and dandy, but some substance would be nice as well :).
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Sorted
Highwaymen
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:12:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:13:13
Originally by: Exlegion
Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 18:06:00
Originally by: Sorted
OR he could get his lazy ass back to hi sec. If he doesnt know by now to jet can on the mission entry point and move 50k away, staying alinged then i'm sure theres a handful of tricks he missing which will result in more "exploit" complaints... BACK TO HI SEC NUBBER
Relax, take a deep breath. I'm merely pointing out that having to press a button every 5 seconds is not realistic. You're going on a tangent and you seem to be losing your temper on the way. Re-read the OP and feel free to give your opinions on the subject. But just to clear some misconceptions from your behalf, I'm not a "nubber"; been running missions in low sec space for a long time now. My issue isn't with staying aligned or moving 50,000 meters away from the warp-in point. The only other thing I can suggest you to do to better understand the issue is run missions yourself. Give it a try. Do it in low sec. Spam the button every 5 seconds, go through the results, and then come share your findings with us.
By the way, try to add more substance besides calling me "lazy", a "monkey", or "nubber". That's all fine and dandy, but some substance would be nice as well :).
I've ganked more mission runners than most, I know how offensivly easy it is to avoid 99% of ganks. If you cba to scan, as well as take other afformentioned precautions then back to highsec with ya, you want the reward without the effort/risk - or so it seems to me. If you can be botherd to scan, and do take extra precatuions then even if you miss the probes you are alinged, 50k from warp in and your can just decloaked the tackler anyway. You have so MANY saftey features already, and now your calling exploit when there is none, wanting MORE features to make your mission running safer/easier.
PS I called you a nubber. The Lazy Monkey comments were whining mission running nubber generalisations.
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Sorted
Highwaymen
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:14:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:14:45
Originally by: Exlegion
Spam the button every 5 seconds, go through the results, and then come share your findings with us.
I Do this all the time in low sec, on my main and my scouts when unknown neutrals in local. Every 3 Secs actually, but thats splitting hairs.
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Sorted
Highwaymen
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:16:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Exlegion
The only other thing I can suggest you to do to better understand the issue is run missions yourself. Give it a try.
Try it the other way round, try and catch someone running missions in low sec and call balance then.
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Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:17:00 -
[51]
I want low sec to be worthwhile running missions in. Having to dock every time a neutral jumps in because I now cannot be sure if he'll be probing me brings low security's profitability down to the ground. That is my problem with this.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Sorted
Highwaymen
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:18:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:19:08
Originally by: Exlegion
I want low sec to be worthwhile running missions in. Having to dock every time a neutral jumps in because I now cannot be sure if he'll be probing me brings low security's profitability down to the ground. That is my problem with this.
Drop a Can at your mission warp in, move 50k away, stay alinged. cry less.
OR DOCK
OR Go back to highsec
I dont care really either way, got 40 mins to kill till shift end, and home time.
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Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:21:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 18:24:00
Originally by: Sorted
I Do this all the time in low sec, on my main and my scouts when unknown neutrals in local. Every 3 Secs actually, but thats splitting hairs.
You spam the button every 3 seconds and also have time to sort through the results? All this while concentrating on something else (ie, mission-running)? How long do you spend accomplishing all this at the same time? 30 minutes? 45 minutes?
I have to admit, you are ungodly good at this, assuming you're not exaggerating.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Great Artista
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:26:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Exlegion
I hit the scan button every 30 to 60 seconds, more or less.
Spotted the problem. 
____
Rockets need a boost. CCP status:
[_] Told.
[x] Not told.
◕◡◕
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Sorted
Highwaymen
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:27:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:31:21
Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:29:51
Originally by: Exlegion
Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 18:21:52
Originally by: Sorted
Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:14:45
Originally by: Exlegion
Spam the button every 5 seconds, go through the results, and then come share your findings with us.
I Do this all the time in low sec, on my main and my scouts when unknown neutrals in local. Every 3 Secs actually, but thats splitting hairs.
You spam the button every 3 seconds and also have time to sort through the results? All this while concentrating on something else (ie, mission-running)? How long do you spend accomplishing all this at the same time? 30 minutes? 45 minutes?
I have to admit, you are pretty good at this, assuming you're not exagerating.
I spam the button on the fwd/back scout, while organising the gang, re positioning based on intel from my own scouts or Alt. During an engagement this carries on while I call primary/secondary and remind the newer pilots I am with on overload, range, drones, Nos/neuts on the Sec/Prim, check my own ranges, run my ECM alt (ranges, matching race to race ecm, cap tacklers, positions, bookmarks and warp ins), manage my cap + overload, rep cycles, check drone damage and transersval, check local count and take intel on pilots ages in local infos.
Yes. & I can still manage to scan for incoming ships either in system or next door.
WHAT is your suggested alternaive to using the scanner reguarly?
WHAT is your favorite colour?
AND WHAT is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow.
EDIT: If anyone else wants to FC gangs I am more than happy to sit back and do as I am told however! means I can drink more :)
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Sorted
Highwaymen
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:29:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:28:56
Originally by: Exlegion
I have to admit, you are ungodly good at this, assuming you're not exaggerating.
No i get distracted and make mistakes, I die, gang mates die. They mess up, we die. the margin for error is all that remains to ensure a good whalloping in un-consensual PVP now. (either to or by us)
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Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:31:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Great Artista
Originally by: Exlegion
I hit the scan button every 30 to 60 seconds, more or less.
Spotted the problem.
Indeed  . So my question is: Should I be realistically expected to spam every 5-10 seconds and sort through the results? Is it even humanly possible? According to Sorted, itthe answer is yes. But is this reasonable?
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Sorted
Highwaymen
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:32:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Sorted on 05/07/2009 18:36:55
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Great Artista
Originally by: Exlegion
I hit the scan button every 30 to 60 seconds, more or less.
Spotted the problem.
Indeed . So my question is: Should I be realistically expected to spam every 5-10 seconds and sort through the results? Is it even humanly possible? According to Sorted, itthe answer is yes. But is this reasonable?
yes
if you would rather burn to 50k from your jet can and stay alinged then the risk/reward balance wins, you loose 5 secs warning and gain some.. urmm. respite from RSI?
If you dont want the risk, then back to hi sec.
So in summary.
1)Scan, 5 sec warning,
2)Dont scan and hope for the best 50k away from the warp in alinged to get out with a jet can for decloaking the tackler (you will stil have to watch the overview though)
OR 3)back to high sec and run lvl 4s with less effort/reward.
I really dont see the issue here. You scan evey 60 secs and miss the 8 sec prober, no exploit or trick in getting you from 99au or using a civ shield booster coupled with a tin foil hat to bust ur mission. You just dont scan fast enough and if you want to keep running in low sec then be aware the risk your personal skills bring to your mission boat.
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Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:39:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Exlegion on 05/07/2009 18:41:10
To put this a little more in perspective I'll give you the following example. If I'm running a mission near a moon for 30 minutes with a neutral in the system, I would need to hit the scan button 30*12 = 360 times! AND go through the results each and every time to spot a combat probe . This is a bit insane, don't you think?
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Orivanna
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:45:00 -
[60]
So let me get this straight.
There are some of you who are SUPPORTING spamming a button EVERY 3 SECONDS?
Let's stand back for a second. Let's imagine for a second that this is a GAME, and not your life as you seem to be treating it.
Do you think there are any good games on the market that would allow something STUPID as sitting and pressing same button over and over again for an hour straight like a broken metronome?
Just stand back and look at how stupid the idea sounds.
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