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Probed down but no combat probes in sight

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Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:34:00 - [151] Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Sorted Originally by: Exlegion button 540 times and go through the displayed results 540 times every 45 minutes just to guarantee you a fight? if it guaranteed a fight i would jump at the chance! I'm sorry, but I think you are being disengenuous. Or you simply just aren't thinking about what you are asking for. I think you have delibertaly ignored more than 1 very valid points about balance made on multiple occasions. I have suggested balanced alternatives to the 540 clicks yet your still being evasive in commenting on them. 540 clicks and correct precatuions stops you getting ganked. I'd click 600 times to ensure I gank you (or whoever) given the chance, and you clearly have no idea how frsutraing and awkward it is to catch an attentive (read: not lazy) pilot.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:35:00 - [152] Originally by: Liz Laser Edited by: Liz Laser on 06/07/2009 22:31:27 We can fly ships the size of small moons, but we can't have a computer (or crew) that regularly scans and announces the things we're interested in? TODAY in real life, I can have a computer inform me each time that someone trades a certain stock halfway across the planet. Imagining pilots actually doing something as tedious as spamming a button once every 3 seconds is insane. Hell, you might as well make them fire each individual charge of each of their weapons with a button push. And their shields should fall if they don't keep a shield button jammed down. And they should have to calculate each jump's fuel use by hand and then type that number in to allocate fuel for each warp. Because all of those are JUST as stupid and just as unrealistic. We also have sensors that are able to detect a mouse at four thousand meters distant in the middle of the desert without any discernible signature. It's just too unrealistic that we have to use probes that are so easily detected by our targets. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Olleybear The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:35:00 - [153] Once upon a time, in an area of low sec called Molden Heath, there used to be a group of guys that ran missions to make isk in relative saftey. These same guys banded together to fight pirate incursions into their space. They earned isk by mining, yes mining, in low sec belts, ratting those belts, and running missions in the low sec mission hubs. The main source of income was through missions though. Probes used to suck really bad. You had to be on the same plane as the person you were probing in order to scan them out, and scanning out a person in a mission was very difficult. This made running missions in low sec fairly safe inside the mission itself. But undocking from stations that weren't insta-docks and jumping through gates to get to your mission and story lines were still dangerous. At its height, this area of lowsec had 70 people in a single lowsec system. Not including the other systems around it. There were plenty of targets for the pies. Camp a station or gate and there was always some idiot who didn't even bother to look in local undocking and wapring to gates to kill. CCP then made changes to probes so you didn't have to be on the same plane anymore, and it became easier to scan out mission runners. In fact all you had to do was send out a Ladar probe to scan out a Minmatar ship. This took all of 4 or 5 minutes and you got the ship location. There was also a little known change introduced later that aloud Recon ships to activate gates while still cloaked. It didnt take very long before the mission runners got sick of being scanned out and losing their ships. I never lost mine. I flew a Raven with a Gisti B-Type X-Large shield booster and active Gist shield hardners. I never lost mine because I saw the risk vs reward blew chunks. This from a person that flew that Gist B-Type fit Raven into pvp and small pos bashes. I, and most everyone else, moved our stuff back up to hi-sec. The low sec population crashed in Molden Heath and has never rebounded. Hardly anyone in those systems anymore. Hell, I have trouble finding pirates on gates down there now because there isn't much low sec activity. Increasing the reward for low sec has already been done. There are BS back in low sec belts. Molden Heath is still deserted. Its safer to make isk in 0.0 in a large alliance to fund my pvp than it is to do the same thing in lowsec. Grats, you got what you wanted. Easier ganking of mission runners. Ummm, where did all the targets go? <<< Just because your pet likes you, that does not mean you are a good person. >>>
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:45:00 - [154] Originally by: Sorted I think you have delibertaly ignored more than 1 very valid points about balance made on multiple occasions. I have suggested balanced alternatives to the 540 clicks yet your still being evasive in commenting on them. 540 clicks and correct precatuions stops you getting ganked. I'd click 600 times to ensure I gank you (or whoever) given the chance, and you clearly have no idea how frsutraing and awkward it is to catch an attentive (read: not lazy) pilot. Sorted, With neutral pilots entering and leaving low sec mission systems the onboard scanner is the most useful tool a low sec mission runner has. This tool allowed me to somewhat reliably filter immediate threats from non-immediate threats. This most valuable tool now requires me to smash it every 5 seconds for as long there is even just 1 neutral in the system. I don't know how to better explain that is is just nuts. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:46:00 - [155] Originally by: Olleybear Increasing the reward for low sec has already been done. There are BS back in low sec belts. Molden Heath is still deserted. Add a nerf to highsec level 4s, a buff to low sec missions and were on a winner..
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:54:00 - [156] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Sorted Originally by: Jimer Lins I believe that the best solution to this would be to allow probes to be filtered for on the scanner, and to have an auto-repeat feature which re-scans every 5 seconds. nice way to make the game cater for the lazy. Why not just have an "auto Mission" button that completes it for him, holds correct ranges + alingment, monitors scans and docks when in danger. he comes back after work X100M Richer each day. Because an autorepeat on scanner completely removes every risk in lowsec, C/D D. They 1) still have to watch it (many won't), and 2) still have to risk someone getting in the window. You'll still catch the stupid or lazy ones, and the ones that give themselves carpal tunnel by spamming the scan button will get away anyway. Killboard - Declarations of War Podcast
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 23:01:00 - [157] Originally by: Jimer Lins They 1) still have to watch it (many won't), and 2) still have to risk someone getting in the window. You'll still catch the stupid or lazy ones, and the ones that give themselves carpal tunnel by spamming the scan button will get away anyway. So you just want it made easy for the mission runners? lowering the "lazy" bar? thereby reducing the catch chance? change it so theres more in low sec by nerfing the highsec missions and that would be fine. Suggesting an alternative (to make it easier on the clicks without reducing the # of pilots caught) would be a good idea if you dont like that one however.
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.07.06 23:03:00 - [158] Originally by: iudex Originally by: murder one Incorrect. Mission runners have had huge advantages for years and were coddled with all sorts of special protection from CCP. Now that has been rectified and you can't cope with the changes. They didn't have an advantage. Maybe over incompetent wannabe-probers like you... murder one is one of the best probers in the game. I don't often agree with him, and he can be really abrasive, but he's a damn good prober. Killboard - Declarations of War Podcast
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.07.06 23:11:00 - [159] Originally by: Sorted Originally by: Jimer Lins They 1) still have to watch it (many won't), and 2) still have to risk someone getting in the window. You'll still catch the stupid or lazy ones, and the ones that give themselves carpal tunnel by spamming the scan button will get away anyway. So you just want it made easy for the mission runners? lowering the "lazy" bar? thereby reducing the catch chance? change it so theres more in low sec by nerfing the highsec missions and that would be fine. Suggesting an alternative (to make it easier on the clicks without reducing the # of pilots caught) would be a good idea if you dont like that one however. You won't get more people to lowsec by nerfing hisec rewards. It simply does not, has not, and never will work that way. They'll just run the lower-reward missions or leave the game. I'm a dedicated covert ops pilot and do a LOT of probing. Nothing's more frustrating than getting someone probed out, then watching them vanish from directional while you're en route because they saw your probes. That said, it's absolutely insane that people have to continually click a UI button. It's bad user experience, it's horrible user interface design, it's bad for the client, it's bad for the network, and it's bad for the server. And it's also terrifically bad game design. There is no defensible argument to be made for keeping such a bad game mechanic in place- unless you like the fact that you benefit from it. I don't necessarily have a better idea right this minute, but it's a stupid mechanic, and should be changed. I'm absolutely certain there's a way to make it balanced and "fair" (in the sense that it's a balanced game mechanic). Like it or not, it's a pathetically stupid game mechanic, and it needs to be changed. Killboard - Declarations of War Podcast
Sorted Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.07.06 23:19:00 - [160] Originally by: Jimer Lins I don't necessarily have a better idea right this minute, let me know when you do. I AM open to suggestions.

Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.07.06 23:21:00 - [161] Originally by: Sorted Originally by: Jimer Lins I don't necessarily have a better idea right this minute, let me know when you do. I AM open to suggestions. I'm sorry, but if your position is that not having a better idea means that the current situation is supportable, I simply don't agree. If I think of something, I'll probably put it in F&I, but for now I'll just state that the current mechanism is both stupid and broken. Killboard - Declarations of War Podcast
Kaylan Jahlar Minmatar Industrial Limited	Posted - 2009.07.06 23:23:00 - [162] Originally by: Spurty oh and as someone already mentioned, its not a single player game. Why aren't you running in a gang with pvp support? Seems your mission running will always bring pvp to to you (It doesn't get much better than that), so get people that want to pvp in gang and second you get guests, warp em in to whoop em. More wrecks make more prizes. These rats might even drop faction loot / t2 gear. Its WELL WORTH IT. If you're in a gang you'll just be ganked big a bigger gang. Being in a gang doesn't help that much in this case, and you can't expect everyone to always have a chaperon when they go in lowsec. It's broken, face it. You may think you're a tough hardcore oldschool leet vet by saying that it's just part of lowsec life to hit the scan button every 3 seconds, but it still doesn't make sense at all. It's not because you learned to deal with it or that you think it's "the way to go if you wanna be a hardcore player" that it makes it so. It's just too easy to scan someone down in deep-space now. They either have to change that, or make the UI easier to use so you can see it coming more than 10 seconds in advance. ________________ Kaylan Jahlar The Assembly Hall needs your support!
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.07.07 01:43:00 - [163] Originally by: iudex Today i was probed out in like 2-3 minutes. I could have done this pre-apocrypha. So what. I actually think the new system gives mission runners a better opportunity to get away. Despite what's been said here, you see more probes, and if you're doing a longer range scan you'll see these probes far before someone pulls them in. My sig don't fracking work.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.07 01:53:00 - [164] Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: iudex Originally by: murder one Incorrect. Mission runners have had huge advantages for years and were coddled with all sorts of special protection from CCP. Now that has been rectified and you can't cope with the changes. They didn't have an advantage. Maybe over incompetent wannabe-probers like you... murder one is one of the best probers in the game. I don't often agree with him, and he can be really abrasive, but he's a damn good prober. Really abrasive? Aww shucks, you're making me blush! ;) But seriously, thanks for the complement Jimer. And for everyone else: for the record- I have every probing related skill at 5, Covert Ops 5, and every max level probe related implant installed in addition to using faction probes and probe launcher. So yeah, I'm dedicated to my craft- killing greedy lazy mission runners. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.07.07 01:54:00 - [165] Really, I think you low-sec mission runners are right. Instant alarms should go off all over your ship every time someone so much as launches a scanprobe in the system that you're in. Better yet, let's go back to the old system where mission runners were practically invulnerable circ 2005. Maybe even have concord spawn if someone ****s with a missioner, OR add a button for you to flag pvp off when you're mission running. FFS you guys... I'm in a corp that makes a practice of probing out mission runners and we fail to catch our target more often than we get them. Using your scanner and setting it on a longer distance will almost always save you, because while the probes at .5 AU are there for just a few seconds, you should be able to see probes for the ENTIRE 3 minutes someone is trying to scan you down if you're doing it right. So either 1. You aren't doing it right 2. You want minimal risk mission running--from the sounds of it you want low to be almost like high-sec. My sig don't fracking work.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.07 02:07:00 - [166] Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: Sorted Originally by: Jimer Lins I don't necessarily have a better idea right this minute, let me know when you do. I AM open to suggestions. I'm sorry, but if your position is that not having a better idea means that the current situation is supportable, I simply don't agree. If I think of something, I'll probably put it in F&I, but for now I'll just state that the current mechanism is both stupid and broken. Jimer- Quite frankly, I think that the current design is pretty crap as well. It's just bad game design. Frankly, it feels like a rough first pass/prototype design that should have never been released for prime time. The worst thing about the previous probing system is that if you didn't have bookmarks that allowed you to get within range to drop a 4au probe, you're basically screwed when it comes to probing out a mission runner in a timely fashion. On the flip side, getting a PVP target probed out on the fly was a little more simple with the old system than it now is. The thing that I don't like about the new system is that it hurts PVP probing (i.e. when you're trying to probe out other PVP fit ships on the fly while in combat and actively chasing each other) and in some ways makes probing PVE targets a little too easy for the unskilled (both in skill points and technique). I think that there should be some sort of system that would require higher user skill on the probers part but would allow a prober to be more stealthy when probing PVE targets in addition to something that would be a little more simplified in function when it comes to finding very dynamic PVP targets but is essentially useless for finding PVE targets. What I think should remain regardless of any changes is the ability to move your probes around the system without requiring massive numbers of bookmarks to get an accurate position to probe a target out. What if we again changed the probe types and added back the deadspace signature reduction effect? Have a special PVP combat probe that would find anything within it's range with only one probe dropped, increase the scan time slightly for this particular class of probe but make it useless for probing mission runners. Conversely, design some probes that are very short range but high strength and only show up on a scanner if they're within a certain range of your ship, allowing the truly skilled probers to keep the probes outside of a target's detection range while still being able to probe out the target. The above would give probers the option to go with the easy fast approach and hope that the target doesn't see the probes, or use more finesse and try and probe the target while keeping the probes off of it's scan range. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.07.07 02:46:00 - [167] Originally by: Jimer Lins D. They 1) still have to watch it (many won't), and 2) still have to risk someone getting in the window. You'll still catch the stupid or lazy ones, and the ones that give themselves carpal tunnel by spamming the scan button will get away anyway. Finally some sense o.0 Anyway, we seem to be stuck in a loop n this thread. Person A sees mashing the same button, sorting results and playing THE REST OF THE GAME AT THE SAME TIME as unreasonable for standard human reflexes. Pirate B see's it as completely acceptable as they like the bravely ignore catching people at gates/stations as a risk for runners and mission runners having to default on bonus payments/whole missions, thus losing Corp, Empire and Agent standings meaning they MIGHT HAVE TO LEAVE LOWSEC to farm more mission to recover standings for the agent. For as long as the latter mindset exists this thread is going to follow a concurrent loop of unreasonable demands in which each party suggests their ideas with slight bias to their playstyle. Sorted you need to realise several things, and i'll detail them to you as best i can. 1. The "lazy" people are not in lowsec to start with. A change to make something less strenuous (Or "Easier" as you claim it) will not suddenly make all of your targets disappear or become invulnerable in some shroud of CCP magic. The few people you catch today would still be caught, because there is a difference between laziness and a mistake or slip-up. Making the button auto-repeat every 5 seconds does not change the difficulty of what occurs. I can spam the button to hell and back easily today, the difference between an auto-repeat and now is how strenuous the task is, difficulty is not effected. Just the long-term effect of how my hand feels and how willing i am to continue doing my risky activities. 2. Opportunities; You do not rely on probing out your missioners or complex runners for all your kills, (Dear lord i hope not, but the amount of intelligence you have shown thus far makes me worry slightly) Unlike you, the mission runners are tied to certain static positions during several stages, first of, the agent. Agents never move around (except when CCP deems a change needed) meaning mission runners are always going to have to run missions from the same, small collection of systems. When they accept a mission they are tied to the same location in space with small variance between rooms, meaning once they are found that mission is void until you leave, and even then this repeats several times a day even if you do leave. 3. Profitability is not the reason highsec mission runners stick to highsec 90% of the time. You nerf level fours highsec runners will drop to level 3s or continue level fours. Even if you buff lowsec mission profits threefold the thing that needs to change is the chances of seeing these profits. There is a common factor in the "Risk vs Reward" phrase that is chance of seeing said profits, or, success rate if you will. You can yank up the profitability until the cows come home but unless the chance of seeing those profits increases too, very few people will take the risks. What you could do, is allow people to request up 4 missions at once, with a 15minute interval between each request. Increase the amount of non-penalised turn downs to two per four hours with the four hour timer restoring the two. This means the mission runner could, with some mild success jump between missions unless you bring a heavy gang. But hey this reduces your catch rate so its probably a "bad idea" on that alone, rite? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.07 04:21:00 - [168] Originally by: Blane Xero -snipped for character count- I think it's funny that we seem to always be on opposite ends of the coin so consistently. 1. There are tons of lazy people in lowsec. The large majority of mission runners are lazy and this causes them to get caught for no other reason than they haven't done enough due diligence to keep from getting caught in the first place. And when you are caught repeatedly that just screams stupidity or stubbornness or both. 2. Mission running opportunities- if you're being heavily hunted in one area a mission runner can always jumpclone to another part of the galaxy into another nest of agents and run missions there. Additionally, there are quite a few systems where there are multiple high quality agents clustered together where multiple missions can be requested in parallel. 3. I agree, profitability isn't the reason that highsec mission runners stick to highsec. It's 90% the safety. This is bad game design. Nothing over a level 2 should be available in highsec space and there should be more variation between security ratings instead of the binary can/can't shoot between .5s and .4s. CONCORD should be able to be outrun, avoided or outright killed in mid-level security systems like .5s and .6s. CONCORD should behave similar to how faction navies attack Factional Warfare targets when operating in .5-.6 security systems. Brief incursions and quick hit and run kills against larger ships (BS, BCs) should be possible in the mid-level security systems. It's poor game design that everyone goes from being basically 100% safe from a non-suicide PVP attack to 100% vulnerable in one jump. 4. Players can ALREADY request multiple parallel missions from agents in the same area and indeed, even the same STATION to hop between if they are probed out by a pirate. What you're suggesting is nothing that doesn't already exist. 5. Maybe agents should move around. What if you could access your agent from any station you could dock at, and that same agent sent you all over the galaxy for various missions and other related content? I agree that tying down players to static agents in only a handful of systems is a horrible piece of game design. It would be much better (and very easy to implement) if a player could simply interact with their agent list 100% from any where in the galaxy, and those agents would send players on contextual dynamically generated missions. The mission reward could take into account the amount of time required for travel as well as the mission completion requirements, and a multi-staged mission could have individual stages in multiple systems. Right now PVE is very simple and one dimensional. I think it would be more popular if it were more complex with more depth and options for the players. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.07 11:30:00 - [169] Originally by: Karlemgne I could have done this pre-apocrypha. So what. I actually think the new system gives mission runners a better opportunity to get away. Despite what's been said here, you see more probes, and if you're doing a longer range scan you'll see these probes far before someone pulls them in. The difference is that pre-Apocrypha your probes would have remained in space for the entirety of that time (2-3 minutes), giving an alert mission runner reasonable time to detect them. On your second comment, you could launch 20, 100 probes if you like, but if they only remain 5 seconds in space chances are an alert player will not detect them. This isnÆt about me wanting to be 100% safe, or being lazy, or me provoking a carebear vs. pirate dispute. This is about a game mechanic thatÆs broken. And the fact that some of you are here even defending this mechanic is leading me to believe that you are benefitting from this stupidity and ridiculousness. This is broken game mechanics, plain and simple. I suspect itÆs an oversight that the new probing mechanics have brought along. And to the person that asked why it has taken me 6 months to bring this up (I think it was Le Skunk), as time goes by more and more probers are catching on to. ItÆs becoming more and more common, as it has happened to me. And I suspect that there will be more players asking the same questions in the months to come: Why are probes not showing up in onboard scanners? The reason being because we now have to press the button and sort through results every 5 seconds while at the same time micromanaging our ships! One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Rawr Cristina Caldari Liberi Fatalius Exalted.	Posted - 2009.07.07 12:03:00 - [170] Originally by: Exlegion The difference is that pre-Apocrypha your probes would have remained in space for the entirety of that time (2-3 minutes), giving an alert mission runner reasonable time to detect them. On your second comment, you could launch 20, 100 probes if you like, but if they only remain 5 seconds in space Normal mission spots will take several minutes to pin down. You have to deploy long-range, then keep narrowing down and scanning again til you get a hit I've seen people try and probe me out dozens of times - It's always the same. I see one or two probes, but it isn't for another few minutes before those probes are actually 'close' and by the time they warp in it's far, far too late. You don't need to scan every 5 seconds. You could scan every 60 seconds and still catch 80-90% of probers. You could even stop scanning altogether and simply move away from the beacons and align out and you're still basically never going to get caught. - Contagious -

fmercury Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.07.07 12:06:00 - [171] 1) By probing you down so quickly, the prober is demonstrating extremely good skills, both SP-wise and actual, in-game skill. CCP tends to reward this, and rightly so. What skills are you demonstrating? 2) Battleships are extremely easy to probe down. This is by design. Try missioning in a HAC with ECCM in your spare mids. 3) There is some inherent risk in operating in lowsec, deal with it. There are steps you can take to mitigate this. Allign, for example, and warp out when you see anything coming on grid. Whining to CCP to nerf probing is not one. If you don't like it, go back to highsec.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2009.07.07 12:08:00 - [172] You. Are. Not. Supposed. To. Be. Safe. In. Low-sec.
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.07 12:09:00 - [173] Rawr Cristina, There is a technique in where you do not need to narrow down and decrease your probesÆ radius. You use the onboard scanner to pinpoint the location of your target to about an AU. Then you align your probes accordingly and launch. You will get a hit in less than 10 seconds and then retrieve probes. That is the issue here. If it wasnÆt for the above the matter wouldnÆt be so grave. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.07 12:13:00 - [174] I think some of you are still unaware of the 'technique' that is being discussed here. I don't have a problem with the way probes are intended to work. However, at the moment there is a workaround that allows you to bypass having to use your probes up until the very end and only for about 5 seconds in space. <== That is my problem. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Babel Boom and Bust Economics Ltd.	Posted - 2009.07.07 12:15:00 - [175] No, you should not be 100% safe ever. Yes, spamming scan/sort every 5 secs is still pretty ridiculous. How about introducing a nifty wee module [named something funky like 'Heisenberg's Cosmic Fuzz Emitter'] that somewhat nerfs yr fit/setup [more than just taking up a slot] but throws a deviation-spanner into the scanning equation of probers? blah blah better meta versions improved etc .. Spam scan as often/infrequently as you wish, based on your own judgement of perceived threat vs. how 'fuzzy' you've made yr ship. Seems a reasonable trade-off type idea ... . "Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn"
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.07 12:17:00 - [176] Originally by: Caelum Dominus You. Are. Not. Supposed. To. Be. Safe. In. Low-sec. Yes, I know. Did you know you're not supposed to use your probes for only just 5 seconds to scan someone down? One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Rawr Cristina Caldari Liberi Fatalius Exalted.	Posted - 2009.07.07 12:28:00 - [177] Originally by: Exlegion Rawr Cristina, There is a technique in where you do not need to narrow down and decrease your probesÆ radius. You use the onboard scanner to pinpoint the location of your target to about an AU. Then you align your probes accordingly and launch. You will get a hit in less than 10 seconds and then retrieve probes. That is the issue here. If it wasnÆt for the above the matter wouldnÆt be so grave. Easier said than done when the mission is 10AU off plane, or out of scan range completely though... Yes it makes it quicker but how hard is it to pull it off perfectly? Unless you're amazing or the mission is really close to a celestial you'll misjudge and have to move the probes around somewhat before getting a hit. And even if they pull the whole thing off perfectly, they're still not gonna catch you if you're careful. - Contagious -
fmercury Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.07.07 12:48:00 - [178] Edited by: fmercury on 07/07/2009 12:48:32 Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Caelum Dominus You. Are. Not. Supposed. To. Be. Safe. In. Low-sec. Yes, I know. Did you know you're not supposed to use your probes for only just 5 seconds to scan someone down? Says who? If he's developed the skills to pin you down and probe you that quickly, which is far from trivial, believe me, he should reap the rewards. You want to keep missioning in a battleship in perfect safety? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Get something harder to probe down, and they won't be able to get such a quick result. HURR.
Forge Lag Jita Lag Preservation Fund	Posted - 2009.07.07 13:02:00 - [179] Edited by: Forge Lag on 07/07/2009 13:05:09 All those pro pirates with their attitude. We CAN spam the button every 5 sec. Some of us may even be doing that. Some may be declining non-deadspace missions where we cannot rely on can trick to decloak tacklers. Some of us saw the way of Raven that allow us to move freely and align at all times without performance issues and without micromanagement and abandoned our gunships. We may be getting up at 4 in the morning to finish compromised missions. This is all very fked up for a game. It is not anything that makes you good player it just makes miserable gaming experience. There should be certain tension in the whole predator-prey mechanics, trying to approach unseen or pretending to be harmless and for prey to assess threads correcly, not panicking wildly yet running when time is ripe. But there is very little of this fun in the current mechanics and it all degrades into wrestling with badly designed game UI. I do not often mission in low in large part because I refuse to play crappy games and EvE luckily lets me avoid its sucky parts. My gaming standards are higher than "push button every five seconds". For the pirates that seems to be a pinnacle of gaming skills.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2009.07.07 13:15:00 - [180] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 07/07/2009 13:17:51 Originally by: Forge Lag I do not often mission in low in large part because I refuse to play crappy games and EvE luckily lets me avoid its sucky parts. My gaming standards are higher than "push button every five seconds". For the pirates that seems to be a pinnacle of gaming skills. What do you mean "my gaming standards are higher than pushing a button every five seconds"? Are you referring to killing NPCs in high-sec, sir?



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