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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:27:00 -
[1]
Recently I've been looking into Dominixes as a blaster platform. While I am wowed and impressed by the sheer amount of DPS a Domi can crank out, I just spent 30 minutes pouring over ideas and figures and have come to a conclusion that both the Domi and the Megathron are both very viable blasterboats.
However, in light of the popular belief that Neutrons belong on Megathrons - not Dominixes - I humored the belief and looked into just how good I could make a Megathron.
Apparently, I made it deadly accurate with mind-blowing DPS. I've been flying an unrigged Dominix around recently with Neutron Blasters and implants, and have finally stepped up to two of the most promising implants in the game: The CX-2 and the ZGL1000. These two implants, which fit in slots 9 and 10 respectively, offer a blaster battleship an unprecedented bonus of 10% damage to large hybrid weapons. When combined with the most damaging neutron blasters in the game, they shake out over 1000 DPS on either a Dominix or a Megathron when fitted appropriately.
Now, please examine the following fit and follow my train of thought.
[Megathron, Neutron: 1500 DPS] (All Level 5 \ CX-2 \ ZGL1000) Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II
100MN Afterburner II Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Warp Scrambler II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L [empty high slot] -- ??? [contrary to popular belief, offlined modules do not act as heat sinks]
Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Ogre II x5
Blaster DPS: 1061 (!) Blaster Volley: 4470 Drone DPS: 317
Real DPS: 1378 Overload DPS: 1537 (1.2 minutes)
EHP: 75,910 (no implants) Raw Armor: 13,551
Tracking: 0.09674 Tracking w/ Standard Drop: 0.12093 (!)
CPU: 683.25 / 687.5 Grid: 18594.45/19375.00
Cost to fly: 160 mil (approx) Cost to lose: 90 mil (approx)
Okay. Here it is... and I have to say this is pretty nuts. For starters, if you are in a Brutix with 7 Heavy Neutron Blasters, your tracking is 0.125. That means that you are throwing battleship DPS at a cruiser and HITTING IT -- even while in orbit with your afterburner on. What's the best part? If the target you are fighting starts moving away from you in any direction that means your radial and transversal lowers and your hits score with even more accuracy. What does that add up to? Those EFT numbers you see becoming reality.
Against a tech 1 ship - from 1km to 11km - which is when you will lose scram, your DPS is still over 1000 (~1069). So, in say the 15-20 seconds it takes for a target who is right on top of you to move out of your range (they have no MWD, and this is taking into account if you were to be sitting still) you will have spilled upon them 30,000 effective DPS. If your afterburner was on and you were following them expect that amount to double. Anything tanked battlecruiser or below will have been toasted by the time they escape your scramble range.
No web necessary and your tank is in your tracking disruptor. If you're up against a missile boat, 75k EHP is a relatively reasonable amount of punishment before you pop.
I think this is a great way to fly a Megathron.
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Lana Hellfury
Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:28:00 -
[2]
Profit Mega is Profit! Boosters really make this.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:37:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 06/07/2009 07:37:13 After a little exploring, I wish I could have posted this along with the OP, but if you plug in the AX-2, you get a 5% tracking bonus to all turrets.
0.12697 is Neutron Blaster Cannon on steroids. That's better than the 0.125 tracking that a Brutix has with Heavy Neutron Blasters, and almost as good as the 0.1375 tracking it would have with Ion Blasters. Dunno if it's worth the extra cash but could be worth looking into if you want to add that extra punch.
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa ... I just spent 30 minutes pouring over ideas and figures and have come to a conclusion that both the Domi and the Megathron are both very viable blasterboats.
However, in light of the popular belief that Neutrons belong on Megathrons - not Dominixes - I humored the belief and looked into just how good I could make a Megathron.
...
When combined with the most damaging neutron blasters in the game, they shake out over 1000 DPS on either a Dominix or a Megathron when fitted appropriately.
Congratulations. I really hope some people follow your way thinking before fitting, that should decrease the amount of nerfboost-tears drastically here.
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Shinnen
Caldari Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:55:00 -
[5]
In my opinion, a ~300-400 drop in DPS is worth it for:
Damage versatility (bouncers or zerkers for explosive, arguably the least tanked damage type)
The extra EHP (from another plate and trimarks)
Extra speed from MWD
That said, 1.5k dps from a mega is fun, just not how I fly mine.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 08:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Shinnen In my opinion, a ~300-400 drop in DPS is worth it for:
Damage versatility (bouncers or zerkers for explosive, arguably the least tanked damage type)
The extra EHP (from another plate and trimarks)
Extra speed from MWD
That said, 1.5k dps from a mega is fun, just not how I fly mine.
Fitting a MWD would negate the effect of the tracking disruptor completely, as well as leave you susceptible to being scrambled yourself, lowering your speed and rendering the TD further useless.
The damage you'd lose from swapping drones to a different type is neglectable, so it works with your idea. To switch to Berserker IIs only drops your DPS by 70. So well worth it to mix damage types in my opinion.
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Shinnen
Caldari Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.07.06 08:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Fitting a MWD would negate the effect of the tracking disruptor completely, as well as leave you susceptible to being scrambled yourself, lowering your speed and rendering the TD further useless.
The damage you'd lose from swapping drones to a different type is neglectable, so it works with your idea. To switch to Berserker IIs only drops your DPS by 70. So well worth it to mix damage types in my opinion.
Oh absolutely switching to beserkers is very good, I think bouncers may be better if you end up a bit far from the target you can instantly start to do damage with them. I'm not too sure, but I have a feeling that maxxed bouncers do more damage than zerkers with spec 4, which is what you're most likely to have.
Anyway I still reckon the mwd is important because you might land 20 kms from your target, the idea of the mega is to mwd in quickly, and do damage to kill. If you end up 20kms from your target with an AB, it will have warped off before you even got in range to do damage.
The more EHP means that your ~1000 dps isn't a big loss because you can last that little bit longer, and you'll kill your opponent anyway.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 08:43:00 -
[8]
What a terrible thread and fitting for a Mega.
I loled at "viable blasterboats", even more at the TD and the AB, if you need a Web and a MWD at one ship in EvE it is a Mega.
Using both damage imps is preaty mutch standard for serious Mega pilotes(plus the 5% tracking Imp), not realy something special.
Hint, some people flying max gank Megas in non comedy fittings and have found serious sitations where they outperforme any other ship in eve by ganking tons of passive drakes/HICs before they are able to deagress(even would say a Hype here but the 2003 guy made it with 5% Structure, lucky him).
[Megathron, MOAR DPS!!!] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Ogre II x5 Needs a 5% Grid Imp to.
The main problem since QR is that there is no real way to put this 1600 DPS on the spot with the 60% Webs and the very slow Megas(again lol at AB) beside of putting 3-4 Webs on the Target(read, bring a gang and tacklers).
Also from someone that got large Blaster spec 5, 1600 DPS are not awsome in a Mega this days, since they are located in a preaty slow ship with a short range that is, even if it is one of the best tracking BS, still preaty useless at close range ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Mystafyre
Caldari Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.06 09:33:00 -
[9]
This is what I was flying with my old gallente main character...
[Megathron, Gank] Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Internal Force Field Array I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Warp Scrambler II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Faint Warp Disruptor I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L [empty high slot]
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
Sometimes I switched the scrambler to sensor booster, and sometimes I had point+web+eccm. Anyway with point, scrambler and web it stops your target quite nicely and then it also kicks ass with 1100+ DPS
I had HG slave set so that tank was enough for me, I also did this same fit with navy mega when they were under 300 M ISK.. Lost couple due large blobs in lowsec, but sure I got kills too
MWD is pulse only, after one or two pulses you still have like 4 minutes of cap. Of course neutting ships are dangerous - but so they are to everyone.
As a sidenote...
[Dominix, Heavy Neut] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Power Diagnostic System II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Warp Disruptor I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I [empty high slot]
Egress Port Maximizer I Egress Port Maximizer I Egress Port Maximizer I
My old heavyneut setup... 4x heavy neuts permarunning, MWD for pulse, and drones to kill target (sentries worked better). The fifth neut is optional, and with that it can run all five of them for 5 minutes Sure the ehp is same than in BC class ships, but gallente & amarr ships usually stopped firing quite fast and I could take out their drones while they were capless and then wreck them
The OP fit is also great, but I really suggest MWD for battleship, it just works better IMHO..
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 09:55:00 -
[10]
And this is news, how exactly? Are you really the only person in the game who hasn't figured out that the Megathron has awesome EFT dps with Neutron IIs, lots of damage mods, and damage implants?
PS: if you didn't try to substitute GTCs for skill, you would know that an AB on a blaster ship is a comedy setup. With such pathetic speed, EFT is the only place you're going to be getting that 1500 dps. ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Shardrael
Caldari Igneus Auctorita
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:03:00 -
[11]
siigari once again proves that eft is not the real game and that the persona behind the character does not get the difference Signature locked. Please submit a petition to discuss the matter further. Navigator |
Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mystafyre The OP fit is also great, but I really suggest MWD for battleship, it just works better IMHO..
The OP fit has 75k ehp while being a BS, and relies on having only 1 source of incoming damage that's preferably turret related so it can be partially negated by the TD.
It's not really worst fit ever, since in certain cases you can get away even with no speed mod at all, but altogether... meh.
Slightly related, once long ago I lost an abso due to corpmate having an AB on mega. I mwded into the fray, then asked for RRing. "Um, wait." he said. Damn him.
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Lego Maniac
Minmatar Dusty Death Enterprise Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:16:00 -
[13]
when you are scrammed by an AF, you will be gnawing your own legs off to get away
except you won't
˄ ____________ ˄ |
Cryissa
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:24:00 -
[14]
This is all based on gank groups I take it? and never solo
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:26:00 -
[15]
I wouldnt use this in a fleet, i would use it for solo or very small gangs (a few ships).
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:45:00 -
[16]
Just tested it out in a combat situation versus a Thorax (for tracking purposes).
The TD prevented incoming damage, but outgoing damage was not as I had hoped. Then I tried a web... better but not quite what I was expecting. About to attempt a painter.
Using a PWNAGE I was able to hit consistently every volley for +1000 (all 7 guns). Against a Thorax in 2500m orbit.
First shot (approach) Lightly hits (shields) 1623 Him passing by me @ 1000m: First armor - barely scratches 613 Scrambled him
~2500m
hits 1054 hits 1063 hits 1200 hits 1133
That's solid. Considering the size of my charge is 400m and he is only about 160, that means that I was doing 160/400, or 40% of my maximum theoretical damage. If I was doing say, 100%, those shots (in theory) would be registering for around 2300.
That's a lot of damage. And that doesn't include drone damage, either which is another 300 approximate damage per second.
Holy crap this actually works.
We just got in another fight: His Enyo vs my Mega. Had an insane time with the blasters, couldn't dictate range and he had an afterburner so the scrambler was not helping. When I got my drones out and he started taking damage he had to lock them and start firing. Because of his close distance I was able to scoop and redeploy. Also if he would have attempted to run I am certain he would have felt the full brunt of my guns hitting him.
Looks like so far it works! Target painter definitely helping... for roaming however I believe this is the way to go. But if I'm going to be station camping I'll certainly want the tracking disruptor for other battleships.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:50:00 -
[17]
Err, why exactly was the Thorax orbiting at 2500m instead of 500m? Try running your test again, with a Thorax pilot who knows what he's doing.
And what is your plan for when you get tackled by an inty at 25km, and he calls in his friend in an Armageddon at 45km? You know, since you don't have a MWD. ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Sturmwolke
Genyosha Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
No web necessary and your tank is in your tracking disruptor. If you're up against a missile boat, 75k EHP is a relatively reasonable amount of punishment before you pop.
No web? on a Mega? Now one would think a web would lower transversal even more, never mind the tracking. The essence of a gank boat.
So what's the reasoning behind this then? |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin Err, why exactly was the Thorax orbiting at 2500m instead of 500m? Try running your test again, with a Thorax pilot who knows what he's doing.
And what is your plan for when you get tackled by an inty at 25km, and he calls in his friend in an Armageddon at 45km? You know, since you don't have a MWD.
1: He was scrambled
2: He is an intelligent pilot and fits a MWD, but the scrambler deactivates the MWD (are we playing EVE or are you just sucking at forums tonight)
3: I dictate range because I am faster than him
4: ???
5: PROFIT
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin Err, why exactly was the Thorax orbiting at 2500m instead of 500m? Try running your test again, with a Thorax pilot who knows what he's doing.
And what is your plan for when you get tackled by an inty at 25km, and he calls in his friend in an Armageddon at 45km? You know, since you don't have a MWD.
There is no way a geddon can kill it before it can AB back to the gate.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin And what is your plan for when you get tackled by an inty at 25km, and he calls in his friend in an Armageddon at 45km? You know, since you don't have a MWD.
dock
and yes painters help when shooting small stuff with guns, who would think of that
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa 3: I dictate range because I am faster than him
Wrong.
Your comedy AB setup, webbed: 140 m/s
Thorax, no MWD: 213 m/s
Inertia carries the Thorax into close range (as you said, it reached 1km), and once it's there, it's faster than you.
And besides this little problem, it's a silly comparison in the first place. You're rarely going to be engaged by a solo Thorax, so it's going to be one of two cases:
1) You're swarmed by multiple small ships, and you can't track them well enough without a web to kill them all before you go down.
2) You're in a gang fight, targets start more than 10km away, and your "1500 dps" quickly becomes ZERO dps from your guns, with your Ogre IIs being your only damage source, as your pathetic speed with only an AB means you will never get into blaster range.
Originally by: Furb Killer There is no way a geddon can kill it before it can AB back to the gate.
So the plan is "run away and abandon your gang whenever engaged by anything with more than 15km range"? Hell, forget the Armageddon, I could probably take down this piece of **** comedy setup in a Vexor. ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sturmwolke Edited by: Sturmwolke on 06/07/2009 10:59:20
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
No web necessary and your tank is in your tracking disruptor. If you're up against a missile boat, 75k EHP is a relatively reasonable amount of punishment before you pop.
No web? on a Mega? Now one would think a web would lower transversal even more, never mind the tracking. The essence of a gank boat.
So what's the reasoning behind this then?
Ed: Never mind. That painter idea is interesting though.
you did notice the comparable tracking to medium blasters right? and if they can hit you, then you can hit them back, tracking goes both ways remember
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Caffeine Junkie
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:07:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 06/07/2009 11:10:43 Neutron Thron should have Trimarks, always. The rigs in the OP are so heavily stack nerfed your almost better off with them.
If you want to boost the DPS over the standard T2 fit, get some SS MFS, not too expensive but well worth it.
Neutron Thron is one of the oldest and most fun ships to fly in the game, be aware that if you run into a CNR / Maelstrom / Raven with Crystals you'll get pwnd.
Pick your fights well and you'll rip things apart.
[Neuthron Thron, Standard]
7x Neutron IIs
MWD, med Cap Booster, web, scrambler
2x 1600mm RT 1x EANM II 3x MFS II 1x IFFA I
5x Ogre II
3x Trimarks
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin So the plan is "run away and abandon your gang whenever engaged by anything with more than 15km range"? Hell, forget the Armageddon, I could probably take down this piece of **** comedy setup in a Vexor.
Sounds like a challenge? If so, I accept. Meet you after downtime in Villore for a can swap.
To the death.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Sera Ryskin So the plan is "run away and abandon your gang whenever engaged by anything with more than 15km range"? Hell, forget the Armageddon, I could probably take down this piece of **** comedy setup in a Vexor.
Sounds like a challenge? If so, I accept. Meet you after downtime in Villore for a can swap.
To the death.
Yes, my -10 character will gladly fight you in highsec... ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:13:00 -
[27]
Okay, I can come to you in Yvangier or wherever it is that you play EVE forums all day long.
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Caffeine Junkie
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:14:00 -
[28]
And as for the AB vs Scrambler arguement.
If you can scramble me, I can scramble you, but more importantly your in range, so I can kill you.
I generally fit 6x Neutrons + 1 Ion and a Heavy Cap Booster to negate the effects of Neuts should I run into a Neut-domi (which is quite probably the most overrated setup in the game, they are very easy to kill if you know what you are doing).
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie And as for the AB vs Scrambler arguement.
If you can scramble me, I can scramble you, but more importantly your in range, so I can kill you.
I generally fit 6x Neutrons + 1 Ion and a Heavy Cap Booster to negate the effects of Neuts should I run into a Neut-domi (which is quite probably the most overrated setup in the game, they are very easy to kill if you know what you are doing).
Well, I was talking with Furb about it and I decided that if someone has more than one neut they're going to have the advantage anyway, because no cap = dead ship unless you can outlast and pull some tricks out of your hat (or drones that mysteriously don't get shot).
That's pretty much the universal ship killer, in my opinion.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Okay, I can come to you in Yvangier or wherever it is that you play EVE forums all day long.
Fine. Unfortunately it's now downtime, and I'll have to actually GET a Vexor since I don't ever fly T1 cruisers. But I will gladly do it tomorrow night.
Vexor (the standard Vexor setup I would fly if I ever took a Vexor into normal combat) vs. your AB Megathron (your latest fit with a painter, as described in your Thorax tests), to the death.
What starting range is acceptable to you? (Don't expect it to be point-blank, within web and blaster range, as that just evades my point about the AB being too slow.) ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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