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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:27:00 -
[1]
Recently I've been looking into Dominixes as a blaster platform. While I am wowed and impressed by the sheer amount of DPS a Domi can crank out, I just spent 30 minutes pouring over ideas and figures and have come to a conclusion that both the Domi and the Megathron are both very viable blasterboats.
However, in light of the popular belief that Neutrons belong on Megathrons - not Dominixes - I humored the belief and looked into just how good I could make a Megathron.
Apparently, I made it deadly accurate with mind-blowing DPS. I've been flying an unrigged Dominix around recently with Neutron Blasters and implants, and have finally stepped up to two of the most promising implants in the game: The CX-2 and the ZGL1000. These two implants, which fit in slots 9 and 10 respectively, offer a blaster battleship an unprecedented bonus of 10% damage to large hybrid weapons. When combined with the most damaging neutron blasters in the game, they shake out over 1000 DPS on either a Dominix or a Megathron when fitted appropriately.
Now, please examine the following fit and follow my train of thought.
[Megathron, Neutron: 1500 DPS] (All Level 5 \ CX-2 \ ZGL1000)
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
100MN Afterburner II
Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Tracking Speed Disruption
Warp Scrambler II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Fed Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot] -- ??? [contrary to popular belief, offlined modules do not act as heat sinks]
Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I
Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I
Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Ogre II x5
Blaster DPS: 1061 (!)
Blaster Volley: 4470
Drone DPS: 317
Real DPS: 1378
Overload DPS: 1537 (1.2 minutes)
EHP: 75,910 (no implants)
Raw Armor: 13,551
Tracking: 0.09674
Tracking w/ Standard Drop: 0.12093 (!)
CPU: 683.25 / 687.5
Grid: 18594.45/19375.00
Cost to fly: 160 mil (approx)
Cost to lose: 90 mil (approx)
Okay. Here it is... and I have to say this is pretty nuts. For starters, if you are in a Brutix with 7 Heavy Neutron Blasters, your tracking is 0.125. That means that you are throwing battleship DPS at a cruiser and HITTING IT -- even while in orbit with your afterburner on. What's the best part? If the target you are fighting starts moving away from you in any direction that means your radial and transversal lowers and your hits score with even more accuracy. What does that add up to? Those EFT numbers you see becoming reality.
Against a tech 1 ship - from 1km to 11km - which is when you will lose scram, your DPS is still over 1000 (~1069). So, in say the 15-20 seconds it takes for a target who is right on top of you to move out of your range (they have no MWD, and this is taking into account if you were to be sitting still) you will have spilled upon them 30,000 effective DPS. If your afterburner was on and you were following them expect that amount to double. Anything tanked battlecruiser or below will have been toasted by the time they escape your scramble range.
No web necessary and your tank is in your tracking disruptor. If you're up against a missile boat, 75k EHP is a relatively reasonable amount of punishment before you pop.
I think this is a great way to fly a Megathron.
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Lana Hellfury
Minmatar
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:28:00 -
[2]
Profit Mega is Profit!
Boosters really make this.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:37:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 06/07/2009 07:37:13
After a little exploring, I wish I could have posted this along with the OP, but if you plug in the AX-2, you get a 5% tracking bonus to all turrets.
0.12697 is Neutron Blaster Cannon on steroids. That's better than the 0.125 tracking that a Brutix has with Heavy Neutron Blasters, and almost as good as the 0.1375 tracking it would have with Ion Blasters. Dunno if it's worth the extra cash but could be worth looking into if you want to add that extra punch.
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:44:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
... I just spent 30 minutes pouring over ideas and figures and have come to a conclusion that both the Domi and the Megathron are both very viable blasterboats.
However, in light of the popular belief that Neutrons belong on Megathrons - not Dominixes - I humored the belief and looked into just how good I could make a Megathron.
...
When combined with the most damaging neutron blasters in the game, they shake out over 1000 DPS on either a Dominix or a Megathron when fitted appropriately.
Congratulations. I really hope some people follow your way thinking before fitting, that should decrease the amount of nerfboost-tears drastically here.
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Shinnen
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:55:00 -
[5]
In my opinion, a ~300-400 drop in DPS is worth it for:
Damage versatility (bouncers or zerkers for explosive, arguably the least tanked damage type)
The extra EHP (from another plate and trimarks)
Extra speed from MWD
That said, 1.5k dps from a mega is fun, just not how I fly mine.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 08:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Shinnen
In my opinion, a ~300-400 drop in DPS is worth it for:
Damage versatility (bouncers or zerkers for explosive, arguably the least tanked damage type)
The extra EHP (from another plate and trimarks)
Extra speed from MWD
That said, 1.5k dps from a mega is fun, just not how I fly mine.
Fitting a MWD would negate the effect of the tracking disruptor completely, as well as leave you susceptible to being scrambled yourself, lowering your speed and rendering the TD further useless.
The damage you'd lose from swapping drones to a different type is neglectable, so it works with your idea. To switch to Berserker IIs only drops your DPS by 70. So well worth it to mix damage types in my opinion.
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Shinnen
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.07.06 08:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Fitting a MWD would negate the effect of the tracking disruptor completely, as well as leave you susceptible to being scrambled yourself, lowering your speed and rendering the TD further useless.
The damage you'd lose from swapping drones to a different type is neglectable, so it works with your idea. To switch to Berserker IIs only drops your DPS by 70. So well worth it to mix damage types in my opinion.
Oh absolutely switching to beserkers is very good, I think bouncers may be better if you end up a bit far from the target you can instantly start to do damage with them. I'm not too sure, but I have a feeling that maxxed bouncers do more damage than zerkers with spec 4, which is what you're most likely to have.
Anyway I still reckon the mwd is important because you might land 20 kms from your target, the idea of the mega is to mwd in quickly, and do damage to kill. If you end up 20kms from your target with an AB, it will have warped off before you even got in range to do damage.
The more EHP means that your ~1000 dps isn't a big loss because you can last that little bit longer, and you'll kill your opponent anyway.
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The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 08:43:00 -
[8]
What a terrible thread and fitting for a Mega.
I loled at "viable blasterboats", even more at the TD and the AB, if you need a Web and a MWD at one ship in EvE it is a Mega. 
Using both damage imps is preaty mutch standard for serious Mega pilotes(plus the 5% tracking Imp), not realy something special.
Hint, some people flying max gank Megas in non comedy fittings and have found serious sitations where they outperforme any other ship in eve by ganking tons of passive drakes/HICs before they are able to deagress(even would say a Hype here but the 2003 guy made it with 5% Structure, lucky him).
[Megathron, MOAR DPS!!!]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Ogre II x5
Needs a 5% Grid Imp to.
The main problem since QR is that there is no real way to put this 1600 DPS on the spot with the 60% Webs and the very slow Megas(again lol at AB) beside of putting 3-4 Webs on the Target(read, bring a gang and tacklers).
Also from someone that got large Blaster spec 5, 1600 DPS are not awsome in a Mega this days, since they are located in a preaty slow ship with a short range that is, even if it is one of the best tracking BS, still preaty useless at close range
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Mystafyre
Caldari
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.06 09:33:00 -
[9]
This is what I was flying with my old gallente main character...
[Megathron, Gank]
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Internal Force Field Array I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Warp Scrambler II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
Sometimes I switched the scrambler to sensor booster, and sometimes I had point+web+eccm. Anyway with point, scrambler and web it stops your target quite nicely and then it also kicks ass with 1100+ DPS 
I had HG slave set so that tank was enough for me, I also did this same fit with navy mega when they were under 300 M ISK.. Lost couple due large blobs in lowsec, but sure I got kills too 
MWD is pulse only, after one or two pulses you still have like 4 minutes of cap. Of course neutting ships are dangerous - but so they are to everyone.
As a sidenote...
[Dominix, Heavy Neut]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Power Diagnostic System II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
[empty high slot]
Egress Port Maximizer I
Egress Port Maximizer I
Egress Port Maximizer I
My old heavyneut setup... 4x heavy neuts permarunning, MWD for pulse, and drones to kill target (sentries worked better). The fifth neut is optional, and with that it can run all five of them for 5 minutes Sure the ehp is same than in BC class ships, but gallente & amarr ships usually stopped firing quite fast and I could take out their drones while they were capless and then wreck them 
The OP fit is also great, but I really suggest MWD for battleship, it just works better IMHO..
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 09:55:00 -
[10]
And this is news, how exactly? Are you really the only person in the game who hasn't figured out that the Megathron has awesome EFT dps with Neutron IIs, lots of damage mods, and damage implants?
PS: if you didn't try to substitute GTCs for skill, you would know that an AB on a blaster ship is a comedy setup. With such pathetic speed, EFT is the only place you're going to be getting that 1500 dps.
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Shardrael
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:03:00 -
[11]
siigari once again proves that eft is not the real game and that the persona behind the character does not get the difference
Signature locked. Please submit a petition to discuss the matter further. Navigator |
Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mystafyre
The OP fit is also great, but I really suggest MWD for battleship, it just works better IMHO..
The OP fit has 75k ehp while being a BS, and relies on having only 1 source of incoming damage that's preferably turret related so it can be partially negated by the TD. 
It's not really worst fit ever, since in certain cases you can get away even with no speed mod at all, but altogether... meh.
Slightly related, once long ago I lost an abso due to corpmate having an AB on mega. I mwded into the fray, then asked for RRing. "Um, wait." he said. Damn him. 
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Lego Maniac
Minmatar
Dusty Death Enterprise
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:16:00 -
[13]
when you are scrammed by an AF, you will be gnawing your own legs off to get away
except you won't
˄ ____________ ˄ |
Cryissa
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:24:00 -
[14]
This is all based on gank groups I take it? and never solo
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:26:00 -
[15]
I wouldnt use this in a fleet, i would use it for solo or very small gangs (a few ships).
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:45:00 -
[16]
Just tested it out in a combat situation versus a Thorax (for tracking purposes).
The TD prevented incoming damage, but outgoing damage was not as I had hoped. Then I tried a web... better but not quite what I was expecting. About to attempt a painter.
Using a PWNAGE I was able to hit consistently every volley for +1000 (all 7 guns). Against a Thorax in 2500m orbit.
First shot (approach) Lightly hits (shields) 1623
Him passing by me @ 1000m: First armor - barely scratches 613
Scrambled him
~2500m
hits 1054
hits 1063
hits 1200
hits 1133
That's solid. Considering the size of my charge is 400m and he is only about 160, that means that I was doing 160/400, or 40% of my maximum theoretical damage. If I was doing say, 100%, those shots (in theory) would be registering for around 2300.
That's a lot of damage. And that doesn't include drone damage, either which is another 300 approximate damage per second.
Holy crap this actually works.
We just got in another fight: His Enyo vs my Mega. Had an insane time with the blasters, couldn't dictate range and he had an afterburner so the scrambler was not helping. When I got my drones out and he started taking damage he had to lock them and start firing. Because of his close distance I was able to scoop and redeploy. Also if he would have attempted to run I am certain he would have felt the full brunt of my guns hitting him.
Looks like so far it works! Target painter definitely helping... for roaming however I believe this is the way to go. But if I'm going to be station camping I'll certainly want the tracking disruptor for other battleships.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:50:00 -
[17]
Err, why exactly was the Thorax orbiting at 2500m instead of 500m? Try running your test again, with a Thorax pilot who knows what he's doing.
And what is your plan for when you get tackled by an inty at 25km, and he calls in his friend in an Armageddon at 45km? You know, since you don't have a MWD.
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Sturmwolke
Genyosha Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
No web necessary and your tank is in your tracking disruptor. If you're up against a missile boat, 75k EHP is a relatively reasonable amount of punishment before you pop.
No web?  on a Mega? Now one would think a web would lower transversal even more, never mind the tracking.
The essence of a gank boat.
So what's the reasoning behind this then? |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Err, why exactly was the Thorax orbiting at 2500m instead of 500m? Try running your test again, with a Thorax pilot who knows what he's doing.
And what is your plan for when you get tackled by an inty at 25km, and he calls in his friend in an Armageddon at 45km? You know, since you don't have a MWD.
1: He was scrambled
2: He is an intelligent pilot and fits a MWD, but the scrambler deactivates the MWD (are we playing EVE or are you just sucking at forums tonight)
3: I dictate range because I am faster than him
4: ???
5: PROFIT
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Err, why exactly was the Thorax orbiting at 2500m instead of 500m? Try running your test again, with a Thorax pilot who knows what he's doing.
And what is your plan for when you get tackled by an inty at 25km, and he calls in his friend in an Armageddon at 45km? You know, since you don't have a MWD.
There is no way a geddon can kill it before it can AB back to the gate.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
And what is your plan for when you get tackled by an inty at 25km, and he calls in his friend in an Armageddon at 45km? You know, since you don't have a MWD.
dock 
and yes painters help when shooting small stuff with guns, who would think of that
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
3: I dictate range because I am faster than him
Wrong.
Your comedy AB setup, webbed: 140 m/s
Thorax, no MWD: 213 m/s
Inertia carries the Thorax into close range (as you said, it reached 1km), and once it's there, it's faster than you.
And besides this little problem, it's a silly comparison in the first place. You're rarely going to be engaged by a solo Thorax, so it's going to be one of two cases:
1) You're swarmed by multiple small ships, and you can't track them well enough without a web to kill them all before you go down.
2) You're in a gang fight, targets start more than 10km away, and your "1500 dps" quickly becomes ZERO dps from your guns, with your Ogre IIs being your only damage source, as your pathetic speed with only an AB means you will never get into blaster range.
Originally by: Furb Killer
There is no way a geddon can kill it before it can AB back to the gate.
So the plan is "run away and abandon your gang whenever engaged by anything with more than 15km range"? Hell, forget the Armageddon, I could probably take down this piece of **** comedy setup in a Vexor.
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sturmwolke
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 06/07/2009 10:59:20
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
No web necessary and your tank is in your tracking disruptor. If you're up against a missile boat, 75k EHP is a relatively reasonable amount of punishment before you pop.
No web? on a Mega? Now one would think a web would lower transversal even more, never mind the tracking.
The essence of a gank boat.
So what's the reasoning behind this then?
Ed: Never mind. That painter idea is interesting though.
you did notice the comparable tracking to medium blasters right? and if they can hit you, then you can hit them back, tracking goes both ways remember
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Caffeine Junkie
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:07:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 06/07/2009 11:10:43
Neutron Thron should have Trimarks, always. The rigs in the OP are so heavily stack nerfed your almost better off with them.
If you want to boost the DPS over the standard T2 fit, get some SS MFS, not too expensive but well worth it.
Neutron Thron is one of the oldest and most fun ships to fly in the game, be aware that if you run into a CNR / Maelstrom / Raven with Crystals you'll get pwnd.
Pick your fights well and you'll rip things apart.
[Neuthron Thron, Standard]
7x Neutron IIs
MWD, med Cap Booster, web, scrambler
2x 1600mm RT
1x EANM II
3x MFS II
1x IFFA I
5x Ogre II
3x Trimarks
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
So the plan is "run away and abandon your gang whenever engaged by anything with more than 15km range"? Hell, forget the Armageddon, I could probably take down this piece of **** comedy setup in a Vexor.
Sounds like a challenge? If so, I accept. Meet you after downtime in Villore for a can swap.
To the death.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
So the plan is "run away and abandon your gang whenever engaged by anything with more than 15km range"? Hell, forget the Armageddon, I could probably take down this piece of **** comedy setup in a Vexor.
Sounds like a challenge? If so, I accept. Meet you after downtime in Villore for a can swap.
To the death.
Yes, my -10 character will gladly fight you in highsec...
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:13:00 -
[27]
Okay, I can come to you in Yvangier or wherever it is that you play EVE forums all day long.
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Caffeine Junkie
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:14:00 -
[28]
And as for the AB vs Scrambler arguement.
If you can scramble me, I can scramble you, but more importantly your in range, so I can kill you.
I generally fit 6x Neutrons + 1 Ion and a Heavy Cap Booster to negate the effects of Neuts should I run into a Neut-domi (which is quite probably the most overrated setup in the game, they are very easy to kill if you know what you are doing).
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie
And as for the AB vs Scrambler arguement.
If you can scramble me, I can scramble you, but more importantly your in range, so I can kill you.
I generally fit 6x Neutrons + 1 Ion and a Heavy Cap Booster to negate the effects of Neuts should I run into a Neut-domi (which is quite probably the most overrated setup in the game, they are very easy to kill if you know what you are doing).
Well, I was talking with Furb about it and I decided that if someone has more than one neut they're going to have the advantage anyway, because no cap = dead ship unless you can outlast and pull some tricks out of your hat (or drones that mysteriously don't get shot).
That's pretty much the universal ship killer, in my opinion.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Okay, I can come to you in Yvangier or wherever it is that you play EVE forums all day long.
Fine. Unfortunately it's now downtime, and I'll have to actually GET a Vexor since I don't ever fly T1 cruisers. But I will gladly do it tomorrow night.
Vexor (the standard Vexor setup I would fly if I ever took a Vexor into normal combat) vs. your AB Megathron (your latest fit with a painter, as described in your Thorax tests), to the death.
What starting range is acceptable to you? (Don't expect it to be point-blank, within web and blaster range, as that just evades my point about the AB being too slow.)
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Titan Pilot
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:20:00 -
[31]
Nice post and interesting approach. I must admit when I saw no web I was a bit surprised but if it works then props to you.
Pay no attention to the negative replies attacking your credibility. This is the right place for discussing this fit.
I hope you pop that can flipper. If I was online I would come for his pod and take the sec hit. Cheers.
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fkingfurious
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:22:00 -
[32]
No MWD !?!?!?!?1
Are you ****ing serious?
Anyone with even the tiniest amount of intelligence (apparently not you) knows that getting close to a Megathron is really really dumb, so everyone is gonna use their MWD (cos everyone except you will have one fitted) to try and keep distance. They'll probably be a bit confused to start with about why your Mega is flapping about at 400m/s like some kind of insane, drunk, beached elephant seal and then the penny will drop.
After the guffaws subside your fail ship will get crushed by absolutely anything that can hit outside 15 or so KM.
Pro-tip: Thats anything that isnt you.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:23:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
That's solid. Considering the size of my charge is 400m and he is only about 160, that means that I was doing 160/400, or 40% of my maximum theoretical damage.
I've got a nasty feeling that you don't understand tracking...
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:37:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 06/07/2009 11:38:37
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
That's solid. Considering the size of my charge is 400m and he is only about 160, that means that I was doing 160/400, or 40% of my maximum theoretical damage.
I've got a nasty feeling that you don't understand tracking...
I've got a nasty feeling you're wrong...
If you are sitting still and your target is moving, if your gun tracks at 0.1 rad/sec and your target is moving at a speed that is 0.1 rad/s or slower, your gun can track the target. If the radial speed of the target is higher than you then the gun cannot keep up and will not hit the target.
When you and your target are both moving, transversal velocity is taken into account. Transversal is just a measurement of movement against you. If you are moving parallel to a target at the same speed, your transversal velocity is 0. If you are moving perpendicular to your target, your transversal velocity becomes higher than closer your target comes to you along a perpendicular approach.
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|<--------O low transversal
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|<---X high transversal
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V
As for signature, your weapon has a signature depending on the size of the weapon. If the signature of the weapon is larger than the signature of the target, there is a chance you will miss. Think of signature as surface area or volume occupying a space. There is more surface area with a larger signature, and less with a small signature. If my gun is 400m and the target is 100m, I have a 1 in 4 chance of landing a "good" hit on my target. As the shot approaches the outside of the signature (from 100 to 400) I will begin to do less damage.
5(4(3(2(1 o ) ) ) )
The 5 is always going to be a miss. The 4 is a grazing shot, doing little damage but still registering a hit at 25%. The 3 has 50% of the shot hitting the target, the 2 has 75%, the 1 is a dead on blow at 100%. Consider it like this:
target: 200m "o"
( ( o ) )
my gun: 400m "O"
( ( o( )( )( ( O ) ) ) )
That shot would be a 50% hit, as 50% of the shot is affecting the surface area of the target.
The entire concept behind my idea involves hitting the target more often, by signature or tracking. The TD is an idea that worked really well on my Dominix because I could fit two. Now I am attempting to adapt my idea to encompass a variety of targets.
It's a work in progress, but I hope to be seeing it put to work soon.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:47:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
If you are moving perpendicular to your target, your transversal velocity becomes higher than closer your target comes to you along a perpendicular approach.
when you are in perpendicular motion the transversial velocity is ALWAYS the other ships velocity.
the angular velocity (aka what your guns use) will increase as they get closer or decrease as they get farther away.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:47:00 -
[36]
A BS can do full damage on a cruiser actually. Signature radius only affects tracking of turret based ships, not max dps.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:48:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I've got a nasty feeling you're wrong...
I've got a nasty feeling he's right, you don't understand tracking.
Your tracking speed is NOT an on/off line where below it you do full damage, and above it you do zero. At transversal = tracking speed, you do some partial percentage of your full dps (IIRC, it's 50%, but don't quote me on that), with a falloff-like curve above and below that point (so you start to take a small damage reduction at any non-zero transversal, and you can do a tiny bit of dps even well above your tracking speed).
The ratio of gun sig radius to target sig radius then acts as a multiplier on the damage reduction from transversal, the higher the target's sig relative to the gun sig, the less damage reduction you get (and the reverse, lower target sig radius = more damage reduction at the same transversal). Note that it's a multiplier, so, for example, if transversal is zero, no matter what the target's signature is, it takes full damage (the classic example of insta-popping an interceptor with a battleship).
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Murtific
Caldari
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:49:00 -
[38]
My apoc will pwn ur mega with less DPS xD
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2009.07.06 11:51:00 -
[39]
Your tracking explanation is almost incomprehensible, but it seems that you're suggesting that a turret of sig res 400 m can never do full damage against a target with sig radius 160 m, because damage is reduced by sig radius/turret res, hence 160/400.
But tracking doesn't work like that.
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Sturmwolke
Genyosha Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.06 12:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Sturmwolke
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 06/07/2009 10:59:20
No web? on a Mega? Now one would think a web would lower transversal even more, never mind the tracking.
you did notice the comparable tracking to medium blasters right? and if they can hit you, then you can hit them back, tracking goes both ways remember
So what will happen if the Brutix was to also slap 2 Metastasis rigs and its pilot also gobbles up a std Drop booster, and then let's just say doubled-webbed the Mega during engagement?
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.07.06 12:24:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Err, why exactly was the Thorax orbiting at 2500m instead of 500m? Try running your test again, with a Thorax pilot who knows what he's doing.
And what is your plan for when you get tackled by an inty at 25km, and he calls in his friend in an Armageddon at 45km? You know, since you don't have a MWD.
Fitting a mega with specific purpose to kill a thorax is just as silly as asking "what if" and then quote a hopeless situation where mega dies no matter what.
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RedSplat
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.06 12:26:00 -
[42]
People really need to stop relying on EFT much and actually get some experience
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
it does get progressively longer.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.07.06 12:29:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
0.12697 is Neutron Blaster Cannon on steroids. That's better than the 0.125 tracking that a Brutix has with Heavy Neutron Blasters, and almost as good as the 0.1375 tracking it would have with Ion Blasters. Dunno if it's worth the extra cash but could be worth looking into if you want to add that extra punch.
Yeah, you don't understand tracking.
Even if both NBC and HNB both have the same tracking "numbers", the HNB tracks 3.2 times better than the NBC.
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.06 12:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Err, why exactly was the Thorax orbiting at 2500m instead of 500m? Try running your test again, with a Thorax pilot who knows what he's doing.
I've never had too much luck orbiting a BS at 500m with a cruiser, 2500m seemed like I got hit less just due to orbiting speed/bumping reasons.
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Inaki Jouzu
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Posted - 2009.07.06 12:37:00 -
[45]
The discussion is moot because by the time you have burned to the target the amarr players will have already killed the target...this is why most megas I see in gangs use 350mm rails and sentry drones instead of blasters these days. There are very few situations where pure point blank DPS will win against medium range turrets outside of theoretical 1v1's on Sisi.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.07.06 12:48:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Tracking w/ Standard Drop: 0.12093 (!)
[...]
Okay. Here it is... and I have to say this is pretty nuts. For starters, if you are in a Brutix with 7 Heavy Neutron Blasters, your tracking is 0.125. That means that you are throwing battleship DPS at a cruiser and HITTING IT -- even while in orbit with your afterburner on.
Hint for the innumerate : the gun signature resolution acts as a modifier to tracking... 400m for the Mega, 125m for the Brutix, guess who tracks better...
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.07.06 12:55:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
That's solid. Considering the size of my charge is 400m and he is only about 160, that means that I was doing 160/400, or 40% of my maximum theoretical damage. If I was doing say, 100%, those shots (in theory) would be registering for around 2300.
LOL missed that... you are the absolute dumbest waste of DNA to ever have graced those forums, you make Pteranodon look smart.
Hint : http://wiki.eve-id.net/Tracking
Please understand it before you ever post again, enroll in high school if you have to. Sig resolution of guns is only ever used in the tracking formula to calculate hit probabilities, if the hit lands damage is then calculated from ammunition, damage mod and hit quality...
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Caldari Corporation 12345
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 13:01:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
That's solid. Considering the size of my charge is 400m and he is only about 160, that means that I was doing 160/400, or 40% of my maximum theoretical damage. If I was doing say, 100%, those shots (in theory) would be registering for around 2300.
Turrets be missiles ITT.
______
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Traderboz
SlaveMart
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Posted - 2009.07.06 13:14:00 -
[49]
This thread entertains.
Dude posts a Mega setup with OMGDPS in EFT and boasts it can kill a Thorax. After looking at his setup, I'm not convinced he could kill a well-flown Thorax, or anything else for that matter that didn't start at point-blank range. He then goes on to explain tracking in a very long, poorly written post, only to discover he doesn't understand how tracking works to begin with. I also like the pricy implants he's using to get his EFT DPS, but I guess those are viable if you only fly in low sec.
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Enden Assulu
Caldari
Blood Money Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 13:20:00 -
[50]
I like these threads, were Siigari posts some trash, Merin then comes in and there are lols.
Click the image! |
fivetide humidyear
Gallente
The Avalon Foundation
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Posted - 2009.07.06 13:43:00 -
[51]
useful thread
siigari looking like a muppet (again) and some useful posts pointing out where he went wrong and how tracking actually works in eve.
i'm surprised you haven't added more faction to your setup in the OP though.
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.06 13:47:00 -
[52]
It probably has been mentioned a few times by now but i will spell it out because it's fun: OWNED.
--
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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kyrv
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Posted - 2009.07.06 13:51:00 -
[53]
Afterburner works well on some ships doesn't need to be mwd unlike megathron a typhoon it has low sig which you want to keep and keep a fast orbit maintaining cap for long periods if your not needing to correct mistakes with a mwd (and create many more) i.e your unapart from fleet low sec ganking then its pretty obvious
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Shinnen
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.07.06 14:27:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Shinnen on 06/07/2009 14:31:54
As for the heavy neut argument, when you're shooting with your mega you're going to have only 3 cap draining things:
1. Damage Control II - negligible
2. Warp Scram - also somewhat negligible (if you're out of cap this is the least of your worries.
3. Your guns.
All this can easily be kept running under 1 or 2 heavy neuts with a t2 heavy injector.
This is the setup I use to great success.
[Megathron, neutron gank passive]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
True Sansha Adaptive Nano Plating
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Warp Disruptor II (scram if need be)
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
1100 EFT DPS with my skills.
~111000 EFT EHP with my skills
Again, my initial point; is 400 extra DPS worth it for more susceptibility to neuts, slower speed and less EHP?
Not for me.
EDIT: Also, no EFT-warrior implants required, this is a 100% tried and tested ship.
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.07.06 16:09:00 -
[55]
Usually i want to punch merin in the face, but right now, he is 100% right,
no MWD = BAD.
no web = BAD. (and this has nothing to do with tracking, mainly range).
secondly, given your running a AB, why the cap booster? you should be able to gank something in the time it takes to capout, except against neut-setups.
if you were gonna go with your comedy setup, id have to say, AB / web / Point / TD (if you really had to put one of these one). ether way, dont try to fix this setup, just swap if for a better one. cause even with the above setup modifications, your setup is still terribad.
Dark Materials |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 16:37:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
derp derp......
You really have no clue.
Regards
Mag's |
Psiri
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Posted - 2009.07.06 17:04:00 -
[57]
Mai gawd look at dem EFT numbers go wen we be gimpin 'n pimpin' our megaszz
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.07.06 18:48:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Inaki Jouzu
The discussion is moot because by the time you have burned to the target the amarr players will have already killed the target...this is why most megas I see in gangs use 350mm rails and sentry drones instead of blasters these days. There are very few situations where pure point blank DPS will win against medium range turrets outside of theoretical 1v1's on Sisi.
Call me crazy but I use null ammo at gates - works good enough. I leave rails for sniping.
Also LOL @ OP fit. I won't lol at the lack of tracking knowledge - because the old tracking guide on this site was terrible at explaining it, and I made that mistake (albeit not facepalming in the forums quite as bad as what happened here).
MWD + Point + Cap injector + Armor Tank + Blasters - thats how a Mega is fit. An afterburner getting you an AMAZING ~277-300ish m/s is lol - only to get worse when you're webbed. Closing even 10KM will take you close to a minute. If they're >20km from you add a minute of 0 dps you're doing with that fit.
If you want ZOMG dps - fit a full rack of neutrons on a Hyp and slap on 3 mag stabs. Ignore the rep bonus because you'll never have the grid for a large rep with that setup. That setup would run circles around this poor OP - and its not a great setup...
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
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Posted - 2009.07.06 19:21:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Rastigan
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Err, why exactly was the Thorax orbiting at 2500m instead of 500m? Try running your test again, with a Thorax pilot who knows what he's doing.
I've never had too much luck orbiting a BS at 500m with a cruiser, 2500m seemed like I got hit less just due to orbiting speed/bumping reasons.
I havent done the math, but recently it seems cruiser-sized Neutron Blasters dont hit for great damage orbiting at 500. In fact, they have real trouble. As this poster says, it needs to be a bit further out.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.06 19:59:00 -
[60]
overloading 7x large t2 guns is a very bad idea.
It's good for the alpha strike, but not for actual dps
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.06 20:37:00 -
[61]
Quote:
An afterburner getting you an AMAZING ~277-300ish m/s is lol
You go quite abit faster (350 normal, 450 overloaded). Sure not impressive speeds, but much faster than your speeds.
And serious, just dont fit 350mm rails on a mega. Fit neutron blasters, 425mm rails, or go home.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.07.06 21:10:00 -
[62]
YOU NEEDZ MWD!!!
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.07.06 22:25:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote:
An afterburner getting you an AMAZING ~277-300ish m/s is lol
You go quite abit faster (350 normal, 450 overloaded). Sure not impressive speeds, but much faster than your speeds.
And serious, just dont fit 350mm rails on a mega. Fit neutron blasters, 425mm rails, or go home.
My speeds were assuming trimarks - and honestly I can't think of anyone that has armor rigging to V so my speeds are pretty close.
400 m/s is terribad - infact the ~800 m/s speed with a mwd is bad.
Agreed on guns - neutrons with null or 425's to snipe.
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
Footoo Rama
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Posted - 2009.07.07 01:23:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Fitting a MWD would negate the effect of the tracking disruptor completely, as well as leave you susceptible to being scrambled yourself, lowering your speed and rendering the TD further useless.
The damage you'd lose from swapping drones to a different type is neglectable, so it works with your idea. To switch to Berserker IIs only drops your DPS by 70. So well worth it to mix damage types in my opinion.
Since you are not speed tanking, the ab is worthless, you will never close to within any type of range using just an AB you need to have a MWD. Of course if you scream that you do not need this in PvE. Running a blasterboat Mega in level 4's with an AB is just lame, unless you are fighting Angels.
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Kismo
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Posted - 2009.07.07 02:30:00 -
[65]
Did Merin and Siigari ever meet?
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.07 03:00:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Kismo
Did Merin and Siigari ever meet?
Nope. I suspect after getting hilariously self-pwned with his tracking "explanation", he decided to just pretend this whole thread never happened.
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Kismo
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Posted - 2009.07.07 03:16:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Nope. I suspect after getting hilariously self-pwned with his tracking "explanation", he decided to just pretend this whole thread never happened.
Sigh, it's always that way. At least he had the decency to simply not show... most of the time when I've done stuff like that it's been "1v1?" "SURE!" ::enter 50 man blob and 4 motherships::
Blah.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.07.07 03:32:00 -
[68]
Siig honours 1v1s. I'd be kinda interested to see this one.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.07 04:44:00 -
[69]
It was like 4 am. I fell asleep. I'm still up for it if you are.
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Sera Ryskin
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 05:24:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
It was like 4 am. I fell asleep. I'm still up for it if you are.
Well, I asked in the previous post what starting range you will consider acceptable, but I also have two other questions:
1) Are gang bonuses included (that is, a single random noobship in gang for each of us, not a fleet command ship with a full rack of gang links) or not? I have a covops alt that I run for "solo" PvP for this reason if you are planning on having one of your own, but I don't really care either way. I just want to know if I need to keep the alt in-system.
2) I know I said "Vexor", but thanks to not flying T1 cruisers, I forgot just how much of a pain that ship is to fit properly. I still claim I can kill you with a single T1 cruiser, but I'd like to swap the Vexor for a different one (not a Blackbird with a full rack of Gallente racials, of course).
Unfortunately, I just spent all night hauling stuff all over lowsec, so I really don't feel like making yet another Jita run to get a T1 cruiser, so you'll have to wait until tomorrow night for your duel.
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.07 05:31:00 -
[71]
Quote:
but I'd like to swap the Vexor for a different one (not a Blackbird with a full rack of Gallente racials, of course).
So how many tracking disruptors are you going to fit?
(most normal fitted battleship can be killed by a cruiser if fitted specifically against that ship)
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.07 05:38:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote:
but I'd like to swap the Vexor for a different one (not a Blackbird with a full rack of Gallente racials, of course).
So how many tracking disruptors are you going to fit?
(most normal fitted battleship can be killed by a cruiser if fitted specifically against that ship)
I said I'm using my standard (well, standard, if I ever flew a T1 cruiser) fit, not some special anti-Megathron setup. Granted, an Arbitrator is a good cruiser in this scenario, but if he can't take on a standard fit from one of the most popular T1 cruisers, I'd say that's a pretty big problem for his setup.
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.07.07 06:38:00 -
[73]
No, I'm not going to allow for wavering in this circumstance. More often than not a person will make a statement only to back down from it later after realizing that they spoke before they thought.
If you wish to engage me in a 1v1 and beat me as you stated previously, you will fly a standard Vexor as you insinuated in your post.
I mean, like you said:
Originally by: "Sera Ryskin"
Hell, forget the Armageddon, I could probably take down this piece of **** comedy setup in a Vexor.
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DonMagicJuan
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 07:15:00 -
[74]
People are really still trying to fly blaster battleships? Get with the times.
Pulse Geddon
7x Mega Pulse II
1x MWD
1x Med Cap Booster
1x Warp Disruptor II
3x Heat Sink
1x Damage Control II
2x 1600mm RT plate
2x Adaptive Nano Plating II
3x Trimark
100k EHP and 1100+dps with Ogre II's at 15km optimal (Amarr Navy MF) and in 2 seconds you can swap to Scorch and do 650 gun dps with a 45km optimal (no implants used). If you want to use cpu implants/cheap faction you can swap out to a nano plate for an EANM. Ganks almost as hard as a plate 3x MFS neutron mega and will do significantly more damage in most situations as it doesn't need to be 5km from the target to actually do anything. If you want to spend some more isk, you can fit an Abaddon very similarly (I like the DC/2xHS/2xEAN/2x1600 low version personally) and trade about 150 gank dps for 60k EHP and a fourth utility mid.
If you have to go blasters because of skills then that is one thing but there is really no reason to use a blaster anything over pulse boats for close range fighting right now.
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Mei Ree
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Posted - 2009.07.07 07:26:00 -
[75]
What I learned from this thread: Sera Ryskin does, but doesn't, have a standard T1 cruiser fit that she can or cannot fly.
Perhaps some people should take Siigari up on the hisec duel offer.
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 07:42:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Omarvelous on 07/07/2009 07:44:38
The Vexor fit you want to use to beat this ship:
Vexor
Damage Control II
1600mm Plate
2x EANM II
10MN MWD I
Warp Disruptor II
Web II
5x Light Neutron II OR 200mm AC II or Medium Pulse II
Small Nosferatu II (you could use a neut with the AC)
2x Ogre II
2x Hammerhead II
1x Hobgoblin II
You can ignore the tracking disruptor.
460 dps (blasters), 440 (pulse), 418 (autocannons)
Dive in and orbit. He wont be able to hit you. He has no web or MWD to dictate range. The AB Mega will go 140 m/s (184 m/s) once webbed (which you should do from 13km out). Ofcourse he scrams your MWD - but momentum carries you within a range his guns can't track. You have a web, he doesn't so you're still faster than his mega even with the mwd off. Pop his drones, then pop him.
*shrug*
P.S. Damage Rigs + Implants and you're looking at ~500 dps with neutrons/pulses.
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.07 07:47:00 -
[77]
Edited by: The Djego on 07/07/2009 07:47:42
Originally by: Omarvelous
You can ignore the tracking disruptor.
You can ignore that at all, small guns get a ten times increased tracking vs BS(40/400 Sig resulution/signature ratio)...
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 07:50:00 -
[78]
Originally by: The Djego
Edited by: The Djego on 07/07/2009 07:47:42
Originally by: Omarvelous
You can ignore the tracking disruptor.
You can ignore that at all, small guns get a ten times increased tracking vs BS(40/400 Sig resulution/signature ratio)...
Exactly - it would run circles around this Mega and produce a LOL killmail.
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
Rock urSocksoff
Incura
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 07:58:00 -
[79]
You could also ignore the fact that a Vexor doesn't have 6 highslots...
Originally by: Saluss
Its a bad world in EvE and everyone wants your Retail shuttle.
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Mystafyre
Caldari
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.07 08:26:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Vrabac
Originally by: Mystafyre
The OP fit is also great, but I really suggest MWD for battleship, it just works better IMHO..
The OP fit has 75k ehp while being a BS, and relies on having only 1 source of incoming damage that's preferably turret related so it can be partially negated by the TD.
It's not really worst fit ever, since in certain cases you can get away even with no speed mod at all, but altogether... meh.
Slightly related, once long ago I lost an abso due to corpmate having an AB on mega. I mwded into the fray, then asked for RRing. "Um, wait." he said. Damn him.
Ups... Didn't notice that he didn't have 3x trimark rigs in OP... 
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.07 09:36:00 -
[81]
Lets stay realistic. Merin would have nanofitted it with large shield extender, because that is at least what he always advices everyone.
Now everyone can plug siig's fit in EFT, fit a vexor with MWD+large extender + some nanos/ODs. Open a DPS graph, put the vexor at max speed, mega at zero (if mega has speed it will only become worse for the vexor). The result, he would have warped out (but that is the case of every battleship which doesnt fit a heavy neut, a nano cruiser will just warp out). So when we remove the warping out, he would have been BBQ'ed, not the slightest chance he would have survived that. Only if he had a tracking disruptor on optimal range he would have survived. But that is not really a surprise vs a blaster ship. (btw this is independant if the setup is good or not, but for sure merins vexor would have been bbq'ed).
Now your setup has a better chance. However two problems ruins your day:
1. Your MWD will be shut down by his scram. With overloaded AB he will be able to bring transversal to basicly zero. Neutron blasters, meet vexor. Vexor, meet antimatter.
2. Drones. He agreed on switching to bezerker drones. I am pretty sure they will hit your vexor for good damage. You cant kill them since you are right on top of him, he can just scoop+redeploy.
So yeah, you are pretty much going to die too.
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Mystafyre
Caldari
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 09:42:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Mystafyre on 07/07/2009 09:42:52
nm
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Hoodlums Associates
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 10:03:00 -
[83]
Oh stop chest beating and get on with it. I want to see either Siigari die in a ball of fire and fail or Merin get punched in the face and a dirty great fact.
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Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 12:06:00 -
[84]
Originally by: baltec1
Oh stop chest beating and get on with it. I want to see either Siigari die in a ball of fire and fail or Merin get punched in the face and a dirty great fact.
This. Win-win situation.
Originally by: Sandslinger of CA
So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
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Party Vann
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 12:14:00 -
[85]
there is a reason blasterthrons use to be popular......
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 12:20:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 07/07/2009 12:24:57
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Just tested it out in a combat situation versus a Thorax (for tracking purposes).
The TD prevented incoming damage, but outgoing damage was not as I had hoped. Then I tried a web... better but not quite what I was expecting. About to attempt a painter.
Using a PWNAGE I was able to hit consistently every volley for +1000 (all 7 guns). Against a Thorax in 2500m orbit.
It's also worth noting that a 60% web is equivalent to a 150% painter, in terms of gun tracking effects and reduction of damage mitigation via speed vs. missiles.
A painter on a boat that operates within web range is insane.
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Abenham
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 15:19:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Abenham on 07/07/2009 15:19:43
5x Ogre IIs?
No Neut?
Scram and Web fitted + AB and Tracking Disruptor?
I'd say a well piloted Rifter could take this setup out.
Not having Rifter skills though - I will have a go in a Tristan and I still think I'll win.
My character is at war at the mo but they honour 1v1 rules and they'll love to see this happen.
I'm on UK time but I'm sure with a bit of notice I can turn up whenever.
When and where would you like to fight Siigari?
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Citriz
No Trademark
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 15:32:00 -
[88]
Hopefully no one takes this guy serious.
Two things.
1. That fit is terrible.
2. No one wants to take advice from a guy that lost the first and second T3 ship , as well as 2 additional ones since then.
Maybe if you didnt ebay everything you would at least have some kind of concept on how to play this game.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 15:40:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Abenham
Edited by: Abenham on 07/07/2009 15:19:43
5x Ogre IIs?
No Neut?
Scram and Web fitted + AB and Tracking Disruptor?
I'd say a well piloted Rifter could take this setup out.
Not having Rifter skills though - I will have a go in a Tristan and I still think I'll win.
My character is at war at the mo but they honour 1v1 rules and they'll love to see this happen.
I'm on UK time but I'm sure with a bit of notice I can turn up whenever.
When and where would you like to fight Siigari?
That way you can call 90% of the BS setups crap. Sorry but get better reasons than that it isnt the best anti frigate weapon.
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deathstriker seven
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Posted - 2009.07.07 15:41:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Fail fit.
Few extra dps for a BC sized tank and no mwd?.....
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 15:48:00 -
[91]
After some more experimenting, here is the finalized fit.
I think it graces a bit of all the advice I've received here, so thank you all for your assistance so far :3
[Megathron, Neutron]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
100MN Afterburner II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Warp Scrambler II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I
Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I
Berserker II x5
Initially CPU was a problem with the TD, but since it wasn't really helping anyway, the PWNAGE uses considerably less CPU, allowing me to shoehorn on a tech 2 medium neut. In my opinion, that increases the capabilities of the fit considerably. And, so long as it has a few cap boosters in its cargohold, it should do alright.
Just remember, neuts hate everyone so if I am neuted sucks to be me ;3
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 16:02:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
After some more experimenting, here is the finalized fit.
I think it graces a bit of all the advice I've received here, so thank you all for your assistance so far :3
[Megathron, Neutron]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
100MN Afterburner II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Warp Scrambler II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I
Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I
Berserker II x5
Initially CPU was a problem with the TD, but since it wasn't really helping anyway, the PWNAGE uses considerably less CPU, allowing me to shoehorn on a tech 2 medium neut. In my opinion, that increases the capabilities of the fit considerably. And, so long as it has a few cap boosters in its cargohold, it should do alright.
Just remember, neuts hate everyone so if I am neuted sucks to be me ;3
Its still bad.
What is the purpose of this setup? Gang fights? Station camping? Roaming?
Anything where you have to use a propulsion mod a Microwarp drive is much better. Going 300-400 m/s is too slow - not to mention you WILL get webbed and then be as good as stationary.
Afterburners are overrated after this patch - they're meant to help sig tanking - they suck horribly on pvp battleships.
If you want ZOMG DPS - Fit a HYP with 8 neutron cannon II's and 3 mag stabs.
Drop the hybrid rigs - use the grid you save by fitting a MWD - then use the freed up rig slots for trimarks.
THATS a Mega fit. This fit will get you nowhere.
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 16:44:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Omarvelous
What is the purpose of this setup? Gang fights? Station camping? Roaming?
Well, actually I was thinking of using it for station camping. But, it has a few other uses too.
While I agree with you that afterburners are overrated, so are warp scramblers. The issue is though that a web has a much more significant impact on a battleship than it has on a frigate. That means that you want to keep your speed up. With MWDs being kicked to the curb as quite a few people fit scramblers now (again, overrated), I am attempting to cope with the popular rage and fit something that will supplement my speed.
Just a thought.
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 16:55:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Omarvelous on 07/07/2009 16:55:50
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Omarvelous
What is the purpose of this setup? Gang fights? Station camping? Roaming?
Well, actually I was thinking of using it for station camping. But, it has a few other uses too.
While I agree with you that afterburners are overrated, so are warp scramblers. The issue is though that a web has a much more significant impact on a battleship than it has on a frigate. That means that you want to keep your speed up. With MWDs being kicked to the curb as quite a few people fit scramblers now (again, overrated), I am attempting to cope with the popular rage and fit something that will supplement my speed.
Just a thought.
Here's the thing. For a BS blaster boat - you really just need to get to within 9-10km. Once in scram/web range neither propulsion mod will matter much, and you'll want to slow down as well as slow down your target so you can get as much of your damage onto target.
The Propulsion mod on a BS isn't for sig tanking within web/scram range like it is for assault frigs. Its for getting into your peak damage range - you can't afford to have a blaster boat sitting out of its 10km kill zone (with antimatter). In fact, thanks to the speed nerf - I usually find myself using NULL ammo on my blaster boats to be able to lay damage out as fast as I can because it takes too long with a Microwarp drive.
Another slight benefit of a mwd is getting a BS to warp in 10 seconds flat regardless. With plates BS tend to warp in 12-14 seconds - if you pulse your mwd, you can get to warp at the end of the mwd cycle.
You said its for station camping. A propulsion mod isn't as crucial in this scenario - unless they bring in friends at range. Its also useful for bumping ships out of dock radius on the skinnier stations. If you do roam - you'll need to burn to 0 on gate after jump in a lot, so its useful there too.
Really though - the main reason is you can't waste time burning into range in a blaster boat. If you want to station camp, and the propulsion isn't as important - fit something else in that spare midslot like an extra web or sensor booster. Either of those mods would be more useful than aan afterburner. I'd probably keep the MWD just so I can go roaming after the camp, or bump someone if needed, or burn at reinforcements (usually reinforcements warping to 0 on a station will end up 30-40 km away from you due to docking sphere).
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 17:00:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 06/07/2009 07:37:13
After a little exploring, I wish I could have posted this along with the OP, but if you plug in the AX-2, you get a 5% tracking bonus to all turrets.
0.12697 is Neutron Blaster Cannon on steroids. That's better than the 0.125 tracking that a Brutix has with Heavy Neutron Blasters, and almost as good as the 0.1375 tracking it would have with Ion Blasters. Dunno if it's worth the extra cash but could be worth looking into if you want to add that extra punch.
No, it doesn't.
400m signature resolution vs. 125m signature resolution means you're a factor of 3.2 out.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 17:09:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Re-read the bit where I showed you just how stupid a painter is on a ship that operates inside web range. Your 36% painter gives a tracking increase equivalent to that of a 26% web. I suppose that if you don't know how tracking works, then this might all be lost on you though. 
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 18:47:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Max Hardcase on 07/07/2009 18:50:49
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Re-read the bit where I showed you just how stupid a painter is on a ship that operates inside web range. Your 36% painter gives a tracking increase equivalent to that of a 26% web. I suppose that if you don't know how tracking works, then this might all be lost on you though.
He's operating on the conditions that
a) he's used his scrambler to turn of enemies MWD.
b) he's cpu bound and thus cant fit a web
Given those conditions he did all that he could to maximise his hit chance.
personally i'd use a iff DCIU and use a web.
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kessah
XERCORE
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 19:13:00 -
[98]
Edited by: kessah on 07/07/2009 19:14:01
Its good for station camping but not alot else, and id use double webs. Then again what is 1500 dps going to get you that more armour and 1300 dps couldnt?
There is a reason to be fair why people dont go all gank, realistically the chances are the standard fit neutron mega will get you out of trouble alot more.
If you want a decent fit gank battleship with a good buffer and ofc have the skills, its the Raven hands down. It'll do 1540 dps with a 30k shield buffer / 125,000 ehp.
Not forgetting ofc that you can choose the damage type.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 02:43:00 -
[99]
I'd do it in an arazu, it would just take a while D: ****ty dps and whatnot.
damp and keep at range yay!
or better yet the curse 
yay for fat and slow targets
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Essence Praetor
Retribution. Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 03:24:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
After some more experimenting, here is the finalized fit.
I think it graces a bit of all the advice I've received here, so thank you all for your assistance so far :3
[Megathron, Neutron]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
100MN Afterburner II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Warp Scrambler II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I
Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I
Berserker II x5
Initially CPU was a problem with the TD, but since it wasn't really helping anyway, the PWNAGE uses considerably less CPU, allowing me to shoehorn on a tech 2 medium neut. In my opinion, that increases the capabilities of the fit considerably. And, so long as it has a few cap boosters in its cargohold, it should do alright.
Just remember, neuts hate everyone so if I am neuted sucks to be me ;3
Now I'll be honest, I haven't read all the wind blowing on this thread in its entirety. But have you tried taking that up against a cruiser that is actually webbing you and orbiting at 500m with AB active?
Some other points before I turn in for bed and check this thread tomorrow morning:
1.) I don't fit warp scrams on my battleships. I fit Warp disruptors and MWD. What are you expecting to encounter? You have a slow ship with a 9km scram range. So I take it your envisioning a perfect scenario where you catch the other guy off guard... well maybe. So its a dueling ship?
2.) Is this Supped up low buffer tank high DPS mega intended only to Pwn smaller ships then itself? Or other Battleship you happen to lure into range? In my experience a highly skilled Megathron does just fine kicking the **** out of everything dumb enough to wander into blaster range without all of this "creativity".
3.) Blaster have range issues. So It looks like your trying to make the other guys range suck too with that tracking disruptor. In doing so giving up all that is so splendid about a stasis web on a megathron. Now TD on a geddon fighting a Megathron.... that might work (possibly in theory, if all the stars aligned for you somewhere in a happy place). But a megathron with TD fitted with an AB? geeze this is like a comedy fit.
At the very least you should have Null ammo if you want to increase your range to something manageable (with this highly unmanageable fit) but that of coarse would lower your Epic EFT dps wouldn't it?
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 07:16:00 -
[101]
Creativity makes the mind work!
Essence Praetor, you have a great post. Thanks for posting.
To answer some of your questions, I carry Null, and typically fit that when sitting at large gates. The ship does a great job camping stations (which was its original intention) and now I'm roaming around. When I roam, I am fitted with a MWD.
It works great as a camping ship, but horrible for just about anything else. Though many people in that thread (you included) managed to figure that out, the idea is that a ship can have more than one role, and not just one "must fit" method.
The gank idea is that you will do 100-200 DPS more per second (that adds up quickly over time). In 30 seconds, I will have done 3000-6000 DPS more. Adding a plate, I will only have tanked 4200 damage. (Note this is all based on raw figures, not counting resistances which could go any number of directions).
I enjoy thinking "outside the box". Anyway, thanks for your constructive post.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 08:49:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
The gank idea is that you will do 100-200 DPS more per second (that adds up quickly over time). In 30 seconds, I will have done 3000-6000 DPS more. Adding a plate, I will only have tanked 4200 damage. (Note this is all based on raw figures, not counting resistances which could go any number of directions).
Even in the worst case of all explosive damage a plate will add 10k+ ehp, before trimarks.
For the specific purpose of station camping a sentry damage rigged, shield tanked neutron domi is better dps (implantless without overloading : just under 1400dps, a bit over 1500 with overloading and way over 1600 with top damage implants + overloading) and cheaper. If you just sit at undock you don't need a propulsion mod at all. This goes well with a pair of Basilisk. It got full tackle too, but lock time is crap.
[Dominix, Station fight]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Reactor Control Unit II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Sentry Damage Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]
Garde II x5
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Hoodlums Associates
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 09:33:00 -
[103]
so has Merin bugged out of the challange or what?
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 17:40:00 -
[104]
Originally by: baltec1
so has Merin bugged out of the challange or what?
Sounds like it. Not to say I'm suprised. But then it's not like it would affect his image that "every fit must be his way or else" anyway.
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Grek Forto
Unforseen Consequences
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Posted - 2009.07.08 18:41:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: baltec1
so has Merin bugged out of the challange or what?
Sounds like it. Not to say I'm suprised. But then it's not like it would affect his image that "every fit must be his way or else" anyway.
Well, in this thread, it was more like "please, your fit is really bad. Can't you see it yourself".
Grek Forto Yarring Blog |
Myrkala
Minmatar
Aurora Acclivitous
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 19:00:00 -
[106]
[Megathron, T2 Gank]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Rage Torpedo
Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
KMB-75
G2-Delta
ZGL1000
Runs out of cap fast, but I think your target is dead before that.
You could drop a web for a Medium Cap Booster, but then you run out of CPU -> upgrade one magstab or EANM to faction. Station games ofc, with same RR efficiency as normal mega just not as good buffer to work with.
And the MWD is there just because it fits, AB would work as well because you are playing on station, generally this is for targets BC and up.
/EFTWARRIOR "0"
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rodensteiner
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 19:26:00 -
[107]
Edited by: rodensteiner on 08/07/2009 19:29:28
Originally by: Omarvelous
Edited by: Omarvelous on 07/07/2009 15:20:52
Edited by: Omarvelous on 07/07/2009 07:44:38
The Vexor fit you want to use to beat this ship:
Vexor
Damage Control II
1600mm Plate
2x EANM II
10MN MWD I
Warp Disruptor II
Web II
4x Light Neutron II OR 200mm AC II or Medium Pulse II *EDIT* OOPS Stats remain the same.
Small Nosferatu II (you could use a neut with the AC)
2x Ogre II
2x Hammerhead II
1x Hobgoblin II
You can ignore the tracking disruptor.
460 dps (blasters), 440 (pulse), 418 (autocannons)
Dive in and orbit. He wont be able to hit you. He has no web or MWD to dictate range. The AB Mega will go 140 m/s (184 m/s) once webbed (which you should do from 13km out). Ofcourse he scrams your MWD - but momentum carries you within a range his guns can't track. You have a web, he doesn't so you're still faster than his mega even with the mwd off. Pop his drones, then pop him.
*shrug*
P.S. Damage Rigs + Implants and you're looking at ~500 dps with neutrons/pulses.
Please oh please tell me how to get 440dps+ from a Vexor with small Pulse lasers, a ship that has no bonuses to lasers, and in your fit, doesn't have any damage mods fitted. You *might* get that kind of a Volley if you're lucky.
*edit* Looking again, I'm going to have to go on the assumption that you're counting drone damage. Hate it when people do that.
|
Amber Hael
Gallente
G-Nos Industries
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 22:01:00 -
[108]
Well, it is a drone ship you know
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The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 22:23:00 -
[109]
Originally by: kessah
Edited by: kessah on 07/07/2009 19:14:01
Its good for station camping but not alot else, and id use double webs. Then again what is 1500 dps going to get you that more armour and 1300 dps couldnt?
Taking down people before they can redock/jump solo(60 seconds at best vs HICs, Drakes, plated/heavy tanked BS)
and to melt people that go for kiting games faster than they get "out of range" are the main jobs true gank fittings can shine in. To a lesser amount killing people before they can get back in jump range(ofc you could simply go bumping or bring more webs in this cases).
For other things unfortunaly a more tank is the better solution this days, since nunking active tankers got a big hit with the 60% Web because of the higher movement under webs. I liked it when the Mega realy could tanke down the "but I can tank" Hype with the brute force.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 22:27:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
The gank idea is that you will do 100-200 DPS more per second (that adds up quickly over time). In 30 seconds, I will have done 3000-6000 DPS more.
Wat.
But seriously and to be honest, greatest flaw of your fit is the low ehp. The added 100-200 dps does in no way compensate for 30-50k loss of ehp. Typical mega with 2 mag stabs and 2 plates, 2 eanms/anps and a dc with trimarks will generally do much better.
Most people jumped to the afterburner part, it really is a bad idea but not the weakest part of the whole thing. Seen hyperions and megas work well with no speed mod at all. Thing is, of course, it's very situation dependant. But anyway, this shouldn't be the prime concern. All the "what if you get kited by a vaga, curse, arazu or rapier lol nub" sort of remarks are quite pointless.
Of course there will be situations where you will profit from the added ganking value, the more if you're working alone or outnumbered where you don't have the luxury of breaking the victim slowly. But for every day bread and butter stuff, especially when other battleships are involved, I'd say the more conservative aproach with mwd and more tank will work just fine. Mega is quite a scary ship even like that tbh.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2009.07.09 05:23:00 -
[111]
I think what disappoints me most is back when I first starting flying bigger Gallente ships, I always thought that having a great big tank was the way to go.
Since then, things have changed and now the method is "buffer, buffer and more buffer." I find it disconcerting that armor reps have been relegated to simple "PVE" mechanics whereas having as much possible HP is desired.
I mean it's something to think about. In 30 seconds a large armor repairer can repair what, 800 x 4? So 3600 HP, base. It costs capacitor but when you look at the 1600, it only offers 4200. One more cycle and you have the plate beat.
I dunno, I just figure that seeing your armor go down slower and being able to combat damage actively are two completely different ways to play... one that Gallente boats do not permit as easily as Amarr.
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SK Rooster
Gallente
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.07.09 06:10:00 -
[112]
no one in their right mind uses gun rigs unless the optimal/falloff ones, seriously get out
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SK Rooster
Gallente
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.07.09 06:12:00 -
[113]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 06/07/2009 07:37:13
After a little exploring, I wish I could have posted this along with the OP, but if you plug in the AX-2, you get a 5% tracking bonus to all turrets.
0.12697 is Neutron Blaster Cannon on steroids. That's better than the 0.125 tracking that a Brutix has with Heavy Neutron Blasters, and almost as good as the 0.1375 tracking it would have with Ion Blasters. Dunno if it's worth the extra cash but could be worth looking into if you want to add that extra punch.
No, it doesn't.
400m signature resolution vs. 125m signature resolution means you're a factor of 3.2 out.
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SK Rooster
Gallente
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.07.09 06:13:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Grek Forto
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Sounds like it. Not to say I'm suprised. But then it's not like it would affect his image that "every fit must be his way or else" anyway.
Well, in this thread, it was more like "please, your fit is really bad. Can't you see it yourself".
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TII Noob
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Posted - 2009.07.09 06:58:00 -
[115]
What is the point of that setup? e-peen dps? theres really no reason, to use that fit over a normal fit. ?
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.07.09 10:16:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 09/07/2009 10:19:11
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: baltec1
so has Merin bugged out of the challange or what?
Sounds like it. Not to say I'm suprised. But then it's not like it would affect his image that "every fit must be his way or else" anyway.
No, I just haven't been playing EVE the past couple days. Believe it or not, I do actually do other things occasionally.
PS: I'm still waiting for you to tell me what starting range you will accept, as well as whether you want Ibis alts in fleet for gang bonuses or not.
PPS: don't even think about using those Berserker IIs on your edited setup if you're going to insist on holding me to the strictest meaning of my claim.
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Xiozor
Sons of Damnation
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Posted - 2009.07.09 12:53:00 -
[117]
Did someone -seriously- just put an afterburner on a battleship with an optimal less than 6km?
Isn't that a sign of the apocalypse?
Protip: MWD or die becoming a comedy killmail, and where are your trimarks? Your mother would be ashamed.
I would rather a 136k EHP with 1400 non-overloaded dps kthx.
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Mr.Kippling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries! ... But he does make exceedingly good cakes. |
Draeca
Tharri and Co.
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Posted - 2009.07.09 16:17:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Draeca on 09/07/2009 16:18:04
[Megathron, HAI DPS]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Ogre II x5
If you go for full dps and you don't have much tank, it's better to be fast and agile so you can evade most of the damage.
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Zhilia Mann
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Posted - 2009.07.09 16:38:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I mean it's something to think about. In 30 seconds a large armor repairer can repair what, 800 x 4? So 3600 HP, base.
3200?
Not that I disagree with the general sentiment, just the math.
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steveid
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.07.10 02:44:00 -
[120]
tbh you can get overheated over 1700 dps out of a hyperion with neutron's so i dont see the big deal really.
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