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Sir Muffoon Carried Hate	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:04:00 - [31] Originally by: Draeca I missioned my sec status from -7 to around -3 in lowsec, got probed only one or three times and didn't lose any ships. I agree that lowsec missionrunning is way too safe and should be nerfed. .. really? How long did it take?
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:06:00 - [32] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa No guys, murder is completely correct on this. Using common sense, people would survive trips to lowsec. Experience required, but you gain experience through learning. I have talked to people who are for lack of a better word allergic (or even better lowsecphobiacs) who will not step into lowsec -- even if their eve account depended on it. It's just impossible for them. Because of that, lowsec unfortunately will never have "enough" rewards... and I hate to admit it but there are just not enough people out there with 1) guts and 2) common sense to make it out there. Yes, but those people move out to lowsec, get blues with the locals, and pew people in the face when they're not missioning / exploring. In other words, they're the people that the highsec bears complain about. I think the system is fine right now, what's broke is the sudden change when going from 0.5 to 0.4 - should be more gradual.
Eddie Gordo Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:17:00 - [33] Originally by: Dagobert Dog Originally by: murder one I went to a lowsec area this afternoon and ran some L4 missions for a few hours just to see what it was like (horrible in fact) and was immediately hunted by pirates. In addition to multiple groups of pirates not killing me I was also able to complete all of my missions without losing any standing or bonuses. The pirates trying to kill me were using faction probes so I have to assume that they were giving it their best effort to try and kill my BS, but fortunately I can operate simple tools like the local channel and my onboard scanner and was able to easily avoid being probed out and killed. Frankly I think that not being a mouth breathing neckbeard carebear and having some semblance of intellect and common sense, on top of not being so lazy and greedy that I insist on ignoring all the danger signs of being actively hunted by pirates is completely overpowered. As a suggestion on how to remedy this situation I propose that all level 4 missions spawn a beacon that is able to be warped to by anyone in the system and shows up on everyone's overview if they have the 'carebear ISK farming beacon' box checked in their overview settings. This will make it a little harder for people like myself with an IQ greater than that of a doorstop to get away from all of those hard working penniless pirates out there. Hi, since you are so smart, can you provide a proper tactic for gas harvesting? I want to harvest gas clouds in wormhole space. What can i do to avoid pirats? Is there any any valid tactic beside clicking scan every 2 seconds? - I cant stay allined because gas harversters have like 1500m range. - I cant fit a setup that can defend itself because gas harvesters need the whole cpu of a ship. - There is no local in wormhole space so i never know if a pirat is in system Do you really think that clicking scan every 2 seconds is a good game mechanic? Harvesting a cloud can take several hours even with 5 t2 harvesters. You really will get problems with you fingers if you want to detect probes. I mine my gas afk in a hauler and never once been probed out. WH space is pretty much empty. Podlogs \| Pluggit
Dagobert Dog	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:18:00 - [34] I still wonder what tactic gives me at least a slight chance of survival if i choose to harvest gas in wormhole space. Dag
Draeca Tharri and Co.	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Sir Muffoon Originally by: Draeca I missioned my sec status from -7 to around -3 in lowsec, got probed only one or three times and didn't lose any ships. I agree that lowsec missionrunning is way too safe and should be nerfed. .. really? How long did it take? There was two L4 agents in the system and once you got lucky with the missions (ie. blockade & recon 1/3) you could just farm them for one high bounty BS, afk for 10 minutes (or 5 if the other mission was in the next system) and then kill another one. It took some time, got the job done and wasn't even worth it, hisec only makes me passive
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:32:00 - [36] Originally by: murder one ... i'm so full of myself ... Originally by: murder one Frankly I think that not being a mouth breathing neckbeard carebear and having some semblance of intellect and common sense... people like myself with an IQ greater than that of a doorstop ... I seriously doubt the second quote. How can your oh-so-high IQ safe you from being narrowed down by probes, without having to warp out if the probes approach ? What comes next, you let a titan explode with your IQ ? You obviously didn't run across competent prober's, or they were not probing for you but hunted down someone else - you had either luck or they didn't bother to catch a small fish. I think this is a made up story anyways and you didn't do a single mission in lowsec. What was the name of the agent, and what was the system ?
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:45:00 - [37] Edited by: Exlegion on 14/07/2009 16:45:52 Originally by: Orion GUardian The problem is not surviving. Being interrupted is as bad for profit as completing the mission after interruption is either suicidal [with a patient pirate camping it] or at least risky because the pirat knows wheere it is and can check it out. Surviving is easy, staying aligned, being cautious and warping out as soon as possible if someone shows up an is decloaked by the can at the beacon that is 50km away from you. BUT, if someone warps in [after successfully probing you out, what your pirates failed to do afaik murder which makes them either rather dumb OR you jumped out of the missions alot so they failed] the mission is almost a 100% default, which loses you standing and money....for profit oriented mission running a complete desaster, even L3 Highsec is better on the long run, unfortunately... Thank you and great post. This is exactly the problem with low sec. For anyone still unaware this thread is a mock to a thread I have created which points to a flaw between the directional scanner and combat probes. This thread can be found here: Linkage. I recommend anyone interested read it to better understand what this technique is about and how it affects low sec. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Frobos	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:45:00 - [38] Originally by: murder one s a suggestion on how to remedy this situation I propose that all level 4 missions spawn a beacon that is able to be warped to by anyone in the system and shows up on everyone's overview if they have the 'carebear ISK farming beacon' box checked in their overview settings. This will make it a little harder for people like myself with an IQ greater than that of a doorstop to get away from all of those hard working penniless pirates out there. Errrr, while they're at it, let's make an inept piwate's life as easy as possible: 1. Mission room beacons for all to see 2. All classes of ships are allowed through mission gate. Even though a Titan can't use regular gates, this is more logical when it comes to easily getting into the room versus a cyno jump 3. Anyone with negative sec status gets 100% bonus to all weapon damage while in mission rooms 4. Anyone with negative sec status do not show up in local, d-scan, or probes 5. Anyone with negative sec status do not have anything that they deploy, including jetcans, show up either on d-scan, probes, or overview, and even the brackets are hidden 6. Anyone with negative sec status get double insurance payouts if ship is destroyed in a mission room 7. Every single mission NPC, including structures, scrambles (from up to 200km) so there's really no point in staying aligned 8. Local channel throws public alert broadcast only when mission runner (or their fleet) uses the mission gate. No alerts for anyone else using the gate. 9. Remove the forcing of WTZ for things like mission beacons and gates 10. NPC mission rats only engage the person running the mission or their fleet Well, that's a nice round number of items. Curious for any other suggestions on how to pamper those disadvantaged piwates [/end sarcastic post]
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:53:00 - [39] It's certainly possible to mission in lowsec. It's also possible to use a hulk for mining jaspet in lowsec belts. Possible does not equal optimal. If you're going to go through the effort of mashing the scan button every 3 seconds you might as well simply rent deep 0.0 alliance space and rat your butt off in a rat loot fitted, unrigged t1 battleship. Or do wormhole stuff. Sure, there are roaming gangs and "afk" cloakers providing warpins for logonskis -- but most of the time you can set your watch by them. I've had to self destruct my ratting ships because insurance was about to expire. It was that safe even for semi-afk ratting. The only time L4 missioning in lowsec makes sense is when you do it in a bait fit domi with a bunch of your friends ready to logonski for pretty killmails. If you're doing it for ISK you're doing it wrong. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question?
Sir Muffoon Carried Hate	Posted - 2009.07.14 17:04:00 - [40] Originally by: Draeca There was two L4 agents in the system and once you got lucky with the missions (ie. blockade & recon 1/3) you could just farm them for one high bounty BS, afk for 10 minutes (or 5 if the other mission was in the next system) and then kill another one. It took some time, got the job done and wasn't even worth it, hisec only makes me passive That's insane dedication.
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2009.07.14 17:12:00 - [41] Edited by: WarlockX on 14/07/2009 17:14:10 dumb post. Even if it was 100% safe it would not matter with the current rewards. Being interupted and wasting your time is not worth it. You make more money in high sec and you don't need to deal with the boredom of spinning your ship waiting for pirates to leave. In other words it's more fun to play the game , then not play the game. What kind of machanic incurages ppl to stop playing. The ONLY way to fix this is to make the missions easy to do in a PVP fit, that way if someone comes to fight you can fight back, hence still playing the game. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
ArmaggedonPSA Minmatar Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.07.14 17:28:00 - [42] Originally by: SwordKnight The bottom line is there should be PvP only areas where people are invited in and sorted depending on ship size and tec type. Concord should go down to 0.0, just rat size increases as you go down further. Missions should have a no go area bubble unless your corp is currently at war with an individual inside it. And most of all Gate Clamping should be abolished as this is what keeps 99% of people in highsec; you cant play the game if you cant get to your intended destination. Please, never post on these forums again
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.07.14 17:34:00 - [43] Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Orion GUardian The problem is not surviving. [...] Surviving is easy, staying aligned, being cautious and warping out as soon as possible if someone shows up an is decloaked by the can at the beacon that is 50km away from you. Thank you and great post. This is exactly the problem with low sec. So, we're making progress i see. You finally admit that safety is not the problem but profitability. Then why do you want to change the directional scanner/probe mechanics please? Instead you could lobby for more payouts and would have half of the more pvp-focused crowd on your side. You go on talking about how often you need to press the scanner button when you just openly admitted that staying alive is easy without resorting to such tactics. Still your post in the assembly hall still talks about how you absolutely have to press the scan button 12 times per minute. It proves again that you are being deceptive like i said in the other thread. -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
Arec Bardwin	Posted - 2009.07.14 17:34:00 - [44] Edited by: Arec Bardwin on 14/07/2009 17:34:57 Originally by: murder one s a suggestion on how to remedy this situation I propose that all level 4 missions spawn a beacon that is able to be warped to by anyone in the system and shows up on everyone's overview if they have the 'carebear ISK farming beacon' box checked in their overview settings. This will make it a little harder for people like myself with an IQ greater than that of a doorstop to get away from all of those hard working penniless pirates out there. Good luck that I saw this thread so I could set you red on all my alts. This way I can log off the instant you appear in local. Otherwise your superior IQ would instantly gank my ship, pop my pod and grab the loot from my wreck. On a more serious note; the quoted post has to be trolling. Alternatively OP greatly exaggerates his own intelligence.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.07.14 17:44:00 - [45] Originally by: WarlockX The ONLY way to fix this is to make the missions easy to do in a PVP fit, that way if someone comes to fight you can fight back, hence still playing the game. WTB: pvp fit capable of handling any 4 (or more) opponents. Fact is, if you don't dictate the terms of engagement you have already lost. A missioner never dictates the terms of engagement. Ever. They have absolutely no choice in whom to engage. The only choice is whether to dock up if another player enters local. Now, if mission areas spawned a bunch of fun NPCs for the aggressors to deal with that might be different. Then both players aren't dictating terms of engagement and the ground is a bit more even. This is much like the bait domi + logonski mechanic which AFAIK is the only effective mission related PvP possible. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question?
Rua Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.07.14 17:51:00 - [46] I don't think you have a brain or any commonsense. If so, you would not be playing EVE.
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.14 19:59:00 - [47] Edited by: Exlegion on 14/07/2009 20:02:45 Originally by: Myra2007 So, we're making progress i see. You finally admit that safety is not the problem but profitability. Then why do you want to change the directional scanner/probe mechanics please? Instead you could lobby for more payouts and would have half of the more pvp-focused crowd on your side. You go on talking about how often you need to press the scanner button when you just openly admitted that staying alive is easy without resorting to such tactics. Still your post in the assembly hall still talks about how you absolutely have to press the scan button 12 times per minute. It proves again that you are being deceptive like i said in the other thread. Myra2007, I wonÆt spend much time arguing with you as it is futile discussing this with players that insist not pressing a button every 5 seconds is me ôbeing lazyö. Just try and understand the following: In low sec: Extreme safety = Low profitability (even lower than high sec) The current state of the directional scanner + combat probes is ensuring the equation above holds true. I never said I have a problem in staying alive in low sec. In fact IÆve stated numerous times I expect to die in low sec. But what I also expect is to make a decent living there as well; even better than high sec. Please point to where I have said something different from the above? I know some of you are benefitting from this loophole and will go out fighting tooth and nail to ensure this remains unbalanced as long as itÆs in your favor. IÆll tell you this. IÆd be against anyone, including pirates, having to spam a button every 5 seconds just to play the game correctly, simply because this ôtwitchö style of play is below the standards IÆve come to expect from CCP. And IÆm also convinced it is just an oversight from CCPÆs part. Hopefully it will get fixed sooner rather than later. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2009.07.14 20:40:00 - [48] High sec missioning isn't very profitable if I enter it ;) Don't worry though as I leave the medium and small sized wrecks mostly alone as well as the loot cans (mostly). If I can steal the mission critical item as well, then I will.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.07.14 20:55:00 - [49] Originally by: Exlegion I wonÆt spend much time arguing with you as it is futile discussing this with players that insist not pressing a button every 5 seconds is me ôbeing lazyö. Just try and understand the following: I did not at any time call you lazy. I called you deceptive and for a good reason. Instead i explained several times that i do pve in lowsec for a living. And i do not need to press that button every 5 seconds. You also amitted that yourself in the quoted post. So why do you bring this up like a broken record? Originally by: Exlegion In low sec: Extreme safety = Low profitability (even lower than high sec) I already stated that there is a profitibility problem with missions in lowsec due to interruptions. I proposed making the rewards better. Originally by: Exlegion The current state of the directional scanner + combat probes is ensuring the equation above holds true. No, because you do not have to use the scanner every 5 seconds to be reasonably safe. I know this from extensive first hand experience. Not only that but you know it too and admitted it in the post i quoted. Hence the reason why i said you are deceptive (and continue to be). Originally by: Exlegion I never said I have a problem in staying alive in low sec. In fact IÆve stated numerous times I expect to die in low sec. But what I also expect is to make a decent living there as well; even better than high sec. Please point to where I have said something different from the above? For example when you iterate that you have to press the scan button every 5 seconds. We have already established that this is not true. Actually it is not you dieing that is a problem for your profitibility; but its the fact that the rewards aren't high enough. Originally by: Exlegion I know some of you are benefitting from this loophole and will go out fighting tooth and nail to ensure this remains unbalanced as long as itÆs in your favor. Please stop putting me into some arbitrary categories that fit your argument. Thats ad hominem and pretty weak. I also would really like you to actually READ my posts (duh). In that case you would know by now that i do lowsec pve FOR A LIVING. So, obviously this "loophole" does not benefit me at all. And again you fail to answer this simple point: if staying alive is no problem for you and me then what exactly is this "loophole" you mention? Originally by: Exlegion IÆll tell you this. IÆd be against any mechanic, including one negatively impcating pirates, requiring anyone having to spam a button every 5 seconds just to play the game correctly, simply because this ôtwitchö style of play is below the standards IÆve come to expect from CCP. And IÆm also convinced it is just an oversight from CCPÆs part. Hopefully it will get fixed sooner rather than later. We have established that you do not need to press that button all the time just to stay alive. So please stop evading my point. With an autorepeat function people will still probe you out and keep you from running missions. So your profitability will still be fubar. How hard is that to understand? Your "solution" doesn't solve any problems at all. -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:03:00 - [50] Ahhh, good times. 1- trolling is fun. 2- I have plenty of standings to use L4 agents in low sec. If everyone is really that concerned with what agents I'm using and where, just look at my standings and figure it out. 3- my profitability was comparable to running missions in high sec when I do. 4- it's nice to get a list of the carebears out there for future wardecs lol. It's hilarious to see the mission runners coming out of the woodwork to refute and discount my claims, which are true and correct. Just because you (whiny carebears) can't do it doesn't mean someone else can't. How do I know the 'probes are for me'? Maybe because I'm missioning way out in the middle of nowhere off the solar plain and the probes are moving to within 5 AU of me? The idea that I have to explain things like this is just laughable. I guess if you can't avoid being killed then you obviously can't see the easy answers as to how I'm able to discern whether or not I'm being hunted, and by whom. I've run plenty of missions. Mostly to be able to better understand the limitations of doing so and to become familiar with the requirements for ship fittings and best practices in order to better be able to kill mission runners. Back when off-plain bookmarks were critical I'd even run missions just to get some good bookmark locations far away from the center of the solar system. I've run missions in all of the major lowsec mission hubs and then some- Dysa, Hedaleolfarber, Yahyerer, Gyerzen, Uphallant etc. I find that pirates who are very adept at killing mission runners are better than 90% of the mission runners out there at actually running missions. A few times I've even let pirates 'catch' me in missions just so I could kill them. This stuff is just like the suicide ganking complaints. The only reason people get suicided is because they're too stupid/lazy/greedy to take the required steps to not get killed. I've never suicided someone who was flying correctly. It's always the morons that get caught. So yeah, having a brain and knowing how to use it is OP when it comes to Eve. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:14:00 - [51] Originally by: murder one Ahhh, good times. 3- my profitability was comparable to running missions in high sec when I do. If having a brain means expending a huge amount of extra effort combined with taking on more risk for the same reward I'm better off remaining brainless. 4- it's nice to get a list of the carebears out there for future wardecs lol. If it'll make you feel better I'll form a one-man corp for you to wardec and leave my beloved Perkone. It's not like I'm likely to undock in the forseeable future. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question?
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:16:00 - [52] I've said my 2 ents already: Increase profitability through icnreased rewards or decreased efficiancy for being probed dow/disturbed or a mixture of both Personally I think 5 Seconds as window of opportunity to see probes that are scanning for you is a little....small...10? 15? 20? Perhaps...no idea if that is solution, I just stated my opinion in the first sentence above.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:22:00 - [53] Originally by: Clair Bear If having a brain means expending a huge amount of extra effort combined with taking on more risk for the same reward I'm better off remaining brainless. Originally by: murder one I agree with you that lowsec rewards aren't up to snuff. I don't think an increase of 10-20x the current rewards is unreasonable. And i don't think he was being sarcastic. Just saying... -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
Bazuka	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:29:00 - [54] Edited by: Bazuka on 14/07/2009 21:36:34 Edited by: Bazuka on 14/07/2009 21:32:02 Here are some old and new ideas combined to make low sec playable for all: 1.Make L4 missions doable with fully PVP fited ship. 2.Make mission rats with Sleeper AI (or at least make it so that exactly half of the rats switch to the new player that just warped in) 3.Make L4 areas accessible only for solo pilots, no fleets alowed. Now , if and only if all 3 conditions are met you get the following result: - Mission grinders that like to spice up the boring PVE with some PVP (players like me) will hit low sec right away, knowing they can`t be ganked by a fleet and when that pirate warps in all of a sudden we are on same footing. All of a sudden it`s a skill based PVP. I have a shot at killing the nub even though he does have a lil edge (My ship will be already somewhat damaged by the rats while the pirate will start fresh) I don`t mind this edge, let that be the pirate`s award for his effort to probe me,eventhough it took him only a minute to do it. I don`t mind playing as an underdog,I don`t mind entering a PVP fight with as low as 33% chance of winning, that`s 1 in 3, I don`t mind that. I DO mind wasting my time and ISK and giving my modules to sex deprived lazy pimple kids which idea of PVP is to only enter fights with 100% chance of surviving (no risk at all) like it`s now. Those wannabe pirates will not like these changes and most likely leave low sec and that`s a good thing. - The real pirates that don`t puzzy out from a fair fight will like the new chalenge and hang around low sec mission systems having some great EVE time. Do it CCP! ___________ CareMyBear!
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:41:00 - [55] Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: murder one I agree with you that lowsec rewards aren't up to snuff. I don't think an increase of 10-20x the current rewards is unreasonable. And i don't think he was being sarcastic. Just saying... I wasn't being sarcastic with the above comment. I really do think that a 10-20x increase in mission rewards for lowsec agents is perfectly acceptable. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:45:00 - [56] Myra2007, Please enlighten me on how I can detect a player probing me with his directional scanner and only launching his combat probes to "spit" out the bookmark to my deadspace? Again, my objective is to not have the location of my mission COMPROMISED. Once pirates have scanned down my mission deadspace it's pretty much a loss of time and ISK. And you could hold your breath as long as you like yelling that you don't have to press the button often because there are other measures in place. The fact is the only measure that can save your mission deadspace from being discovered is being able to successfully detect combat probes in the area. Myra2007, I dislike arguing like this because in the end I will not change my mind and neither will you. But it caught my attention you deliberatly and falsely accusing me of things I have not said and had to bring it up to the reader's attention. I have maintained time after time that the directional scanner is being used as a probing tool and the current probing system is being used to spit bookmarks. This is affecting the profitability of low sec. And your argument is that this isnÆt true, that IÆm lying and being deceitful. Care in explaining how IÆm missing the combat probes even though IÆm constantly scanning for them, in about intervals of 30 seconds per scan? Unless you think IÆm lying, that is. In that case donÆt bother, as itÆs just a waste of your and my time.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:51:00 - [57] Either the OP lied or he is a clueless noob. You can survive against modestly capable pirates - but your isk per hour is pitiful. If he didnt lie then either the pirates sucked or the OP has no idea what decent profit is. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Shirley Serious Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:52:00 - [58] Originally by: murder one I wasn't being sarcastic with the above comment. I really do think that a 10-20x increase in mission rewards for lowsec agents is perfectly acceptable. By rewards, do you mean, the LPs and the isk for completion/time bonus? Just the LPs? Just the isk? Or something else? Yes. Yes, I am.
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:55:00 - [59] Edited by: Exlegion on 14/07/2009 21:56:11 Originally by: Ghoest You can survive against modestly capable pirates - but your isk per hour is pitiful. This. I just can't understand why this is so difficult for some to understand. I honestly feel like it's a deliberate attempt at masquerading and making it seem like all is well because it is to their benefit to keep it that way. In the long run it will hurt everyone.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:55:00 - [60] Originally by: Shirley Serious Originally by: murder one I wasn't being sarcastic with the above comment. I really do think that a 10-20x increase in mission rewards for lowsec agents is perfectly acceptable. By rewards, do you mean, the LPs and the isk for completion/time bonus? Just the LPs? Just the isk? Or something else? Everything across the board. The mission rewards for lowsec should be so high that it will kill the greedy souls of carebears everywhere to have to look at all that potential ISK and not partake of it. Right now the rewards for lowsec is a joke. It is indeed a very dangerous environment when compared to highsec and the rewards don't measure up to the risk. They should be increased twenty fold. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2

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