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murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.14 06:12:00 - [1] I went to a lowsec area this afternoon and ran some L4 missions for a few hours just to see what it was like (horrible in fact) and was immediately hunted by pirates. In addition to multiple groups of pirates not killing me I was also able to complete all of my missions without losing any standing or bonuses. The pirates trying to kill me were using faction probes so I have to assume that they were giving it their best effort to try and kill my BS, but fortunately I can operate simple tools like the local channel and my onboard scanner and was able to easily avoid being probed out and killed. Frankly I think that not being a mouth breathing neckbeard carebear and having some semblance of intellect and common sense, on top of not being so lazy and greedy that I insist on ignoring all the danger signs of being actively hunted by pirates is completely overpowered. As a suggestion on how to remedy this situation I propose that all level 4 missions spawn a beacon that is able to be warped to by anyone in the system and shows up on everyone's overview if they have the 'carebear ISK farming beacon' box checked in their overview settings. This will make it a little harder for people like myself with an IQ greater than that of a doorstop to get away from all of those hard working penniless pirates out there. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.07.14 06:40:00 - [2] So you proved correct the whines, that missioning in lowsec is not as profitable as missioning in highsec, because you are constantly being interrupted by pirates and have an increased chance of losing your ship.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.14 06:45:00 - [3] And additionally if the mission spawns in a bad location, where they can pinpoint you down pretty much with directional scanner and only need probes to quickly get a warpin, they will have probes out for a neglectable ammount of time. I got better stuff to do than smashing a scan button every 5 seconds to see if there are probes out.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Destination SkillQueue So you proved correct the whines, that missioning in lowsec is not as profitable as missioning in highsec, because you are constantly being interrupted by pirates and have an increased chance of losing your ship. No, I was making ISK quite efficiently. I wasn't interrupted. I was simply able to avoid being interrupted by said pirates. So no, the whines are incorrect. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:22:00 - [5] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Destination SkillQueue So you proved correct the whines, that missioning in lowsec is not as profitable as missioning in highsec, because you are constantly being interrupted by pirates and have an increased chance of losing your ship. No, I was making ISK quite efficiently. I wasn't interrupted. I was simply able to avoid being interrupted by said pirates. So no, the whines are incorrect. I can do this too. I can make "efficiently", the DS was making is that you can be MORE efficient in highsec. It's true too. I'm not agreeing mission rewards are unbalanced, but lowsec missions aren't in par. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
ArmaggedonPSA Minmatar Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:28:00 - [6] Originally by: murder one Stuff Someone give this man a medal. EVE should be skill and intellect-based, not waiting around for enough lowsec nerfs that you can have your cat AP you through and not have to worry about it. I give it 6 months before the cat thing is a viable tactic btw
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: murder one Originally by: Destination SkillQueue So you proved correct the whines, that missioning in lowsec is not as profitable as missioning in highsec, because you are constantly being interrupted by pirates and have an increased chance of losing your ship. No, I was making ISK quite efficiently. I wasn't interrupted. I was simply able to avoid being interrupted by said pirates. So no, the whines are incorrect. I can do this too. I can make "efficiently", the DS was making is that you can be MORE efficient in highsec. It's true too. I'm not agreeing mission rewards are unbalanced, but lowsec missions aren't in par. I agree with you that lowsec rewards aren't up to snuff. I don't think an increase of 10-20x the current rewards is unreasonable. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:54:00 - [8] Edited by: The Djego on 14/07/2009 07:54:47 Meh, boost the exploration conted and faction spawns in the betls in Low Sec instead(and finaly give Angel faction spawns a loot table that drop more than just a tag + faction amno 999/1000 times). People with common sense + brain have usely more fun scanning this things down and waiting for a big drop instead of press the "next mission" button. Looking in Local and on the scanner don¦t makes missions more interesting, only makes you invest more effort to do still a boring thing. Also don¦t you think you should post this with a char that isn¦t know as your alt and isn¦t in the same pirate corp to? ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.14 07:59:00 - [9] Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 14/07/2009 07:54:47 Meh, boost the exploration conted and faction spawns in the betls in Low Sec instead(and finaly give Angel faction spawns a loot table that drop more than just a tag + faction amno 999/1000 times). People with common sense + brain have usely more fun scanning this things down and waiting for a big drop instead of press the "next mission" button. Looking in Local and on the scanner don¦t makes missions more interesting, only makes you invest more effort to do still a boring thing. Also don¦t you think you should post this with a char that isn¦t know as your alt and isn¦t in the same pirate corp to? He who shall not be named is enjoying a 30d forum ban for calling someone a ******. ^-^ -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.07.14 08:00:00 - [10] Originally by: ArmaggedonPSA Originally by: murder one Stuff Someone give this man a medal. EVE should be skill and intellect-based, not waiting around for enough lowsec nerfs that you can have your cat AP you through and not have to worry about it. I give it 6 months before the cat thing is a viable tactic btw Stockpiling cats now!

Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Furb Killer And additionally if the mission spawns in a bad location, where they can pinpoint you down pretty much with directional scanner and only need probes to quickly get a warpin, they will have probes out for a neglectable ammount of time. I got better stuff to do than smashing a scan button every 5 seconds to see if there are probes out. Like say staying aligned and watching the overview? You know the game mechanics well enough to know how to keep you safe without too much effort. The fact that you still contribute to these whines is interesting. -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:12:00 - [12] Edited by: Furb Killer on 14/07/2009 09:14:10 Do you even realise it is not practical to stay alligned all the time in a mission? And so murder you werent interrupted in your mission because you had so much common sense? Care to explain us how you do that? Sure surviving is possible, but not being interrupted means they failed to scan you down, and you said they tried. So those pirates much fail pretty hard. Edit: And i dont contribute to any whine. If you want to mission in low sec, fine i wont stop you. But this is just a stealth lvl 4 missions should be removed from high sec whine, and i am against that.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:27:00 - [13] Originally by: murder one As a suggestion on how to remedy this situation I propose that all level 4 missions spawn a beacon that is able to be warped to by anyone in the system and shows up on everyone's overview if they have the 'carebear ISK farming beacon' box checked in their overview settings. This will make it a little harder for people like myself with an IQ greater than that of a doorstop to get away from all of those hard working penniless pirates out there. is this a case of bad sarcasm? seriously one of the dumbest ideas I've heard in a long time. ----------------------------------- ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Typhado3 Originally by: murder one As a suggestion on how to remedy this situation I propose that all level 4 missions spawn a beacon that is able to be warped to by anyone in the system and shows up on everyone's overview if they have the 'carebear ISK farming beacon' box checked in their overview settings. This will make it a little harder for people like myself with an IQ greater than that of a doorstop to get away from all of those hard working penniless pirates out there. is this a case of bad sarcasm? seriously one of the dumbest ideas I've heard in a long time. <--- his post <-- your head
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:37:00 - [15] No guys, murder is completely correct on this. Using common sense, people would survive trips to lowsec. Experience required, but you gain experience through learning. I have talked to people who are for lack of a better word allergic (or even better lowsecphobiacs) who will not step into lowsec -- even if their eve account depended on it. It's just impossible for them. Because of that, lowsec unfortunately will never have "enough" rewards... and I hate to admit it but there are just not enough people out there with 1) guts and 2) common sense to make it out there. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.quafeultra.com ò Buy a GTC
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:38:00 - [16] Edited by: Myra2007 on 14/07/2009 09:40:23 Originally by: Furb Killer Do you even realise it is not practical to stay alligned all the time in a mission? Obviously you're not supposed to be 100% safe at all times during a mission in lowsec. Are you saying this should be any different? You can align in 95% of all situations. In those that you cannot you are usually 50km away from the pocket entrance or you are already in one of the later pockets. It should be obvious why that is not a big deal. Of course i can not and will not deny the fact that there are small windows of vulnerability even if you're aware. But again i think given it is lowsec and pvp is supposed to happen in this game that this may be very much intended. Now about this "do you even realize" rhetoric. I've run hundreds of exploration sites, complexes and since apocrypha also a lot of wormholes. I've been caught once or twice in all this time (~2years or something since i've been in that business). And thats without clicking the scanner button every 5 seconds. So, yes, i am not just talking out of my butt here. As for missions i've only run a very few missions in lowsec due to the shady profitability. I am pretty much experienced with every lvl4 mission though due to extensive grinding for pos standings back when i lived in hisec. Maybe i should post with one of my high sec-status/high standing chars but that wouldn't change my argument one bit. Lowsec missions are unprofitable. This however is not a matter of safety because not getting caught is rather easy. (And again i state that you know this very well.) Its just so that the rewards aren't where they need to be to make it attractive. I've said this for years btw. Of course i'd be very much interested to hear how did i manage to stay alive through all those years if you just can't without pressing the scan button every 5 seconds? Because i never did that. Probably i am just superlucky, right? edit: and no i don't advocate lvl4 hisec nerfs. I advocate lowsec/0.0 mission boosting. Why in hell would anyone be opposed? -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2009.07.14 09:59:00 - [17] These were my favourite Murder One posts tbh.
Bazuka	Posted - 2009.07.14 10:10:00 - [18] Lets see. So you work at a construction site #1 every day. You get payed daily and in cash. So everyday after work your valet has some cash in it. There are some lazy unemployed criminals that know this and they wait in the bushes to attack you after work so they can have some of your hardworking cash with little to no effort. There is a problem though. There are cops patroling the construction site and would gangrape any petty criminal that tries to take your money. Little down the road theres another construction site #2, but with no cops protecting it. It also has bushes and petty criminals around but it`s pretty much empty. Hmmmm I wonder why. So... one of these lazy criminals jumps out of the bush, comes to you one day and tells you: "Dude, dude, why you working here dude? I hear the construction site #2 pays little bit better. You should work there dude,it`s common sense, logic dude, logic. Same work, more money dude. All you have to do is look over your shoulder every day after work, stay alert and you need to be a good runner too so you can run away from criminals like me that try to mug you. So don`t work too hard dude, keep your energy for that running after work. I can`t catch you if you run fast enough dude I swear, none of us criminals can. You safe dude rly, common sense dude, logic dude...logic!" Hmmmm...hard choise! ___________ CareMyBear!
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:22:00 - [19] Originally by: murder one I wasn't interrupted. I was simply able to avoid being interrupted by said pirates. How exactly does that work? Did you scare them off with your common sense? Either they searched for and found you, in which case they'll interrupt you, or they didn't find you - in which case it was merely luck. What's the third option I'm missing?
SwordKnight	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:08:00 - [20] The bottom line is there should be PvP only areas where people are invited in and sorted depending on ship size and tec type. Concord should go down to 0.0, just rat size increases as you go down further. Missions should have a no go area bubble unless your corp is currently at war with an individual inside it. And most of all Gate Clamping should be abolished as this is what keeps 99% of people in highsec; you cant play the game if you cant get to your intended destination.

Sir Muffoon Carried Hate	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind How exactly does that work? Did you scare them off with your common sense? Either they searched for and found you, in which case they'll interrupt you, or they didn't find you - in which case it was merely luck. What's the third option I'm missing? You can take steps to stop them finding you, like ECCMs, Halo implant sets, flying CSs/HACs. There's probably more I can't remember right now.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Sir Muffoon Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind How exactly does that work? Did you scare them off with your common sense? Either they searched for and found you, in which case they'll interrupt you, or they didn't find you - in which case it was merely luck. What's the third option I'm missing? You can take steps to stop them finding you, like ECCMs, Halo implant sets, flying CSs/HACs. There's probably more I can't remember right now. This only means that they need better scanning equipment, not that they won't find you. I call BS. -------- Ideas for: Mining
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:26:00 - [23] Originally by: SwordKnight The bottom line is there should be PvP only areas where people are invited in and sorted depending on ship size and tec type. Concord should go down to 0.0, just rat size increases as you go down further. Missions should have a no go area bubble unless your corp is currently at war with an individual inside it. And most of all Gate Clamping should be abolished as this is what keeps 99% of people in highsec; you cant play the game if you cant get to your intended destination. The game you might check out is called World of Warcraft since it is preaty mutch like this, good sir. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Sir Muffoon Carried Hate	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Abrazzar You can take steps to stop them finding you, like ECCMs, Halo implant sets, flying CSs/HACs. There's probably more I can't remember right now. This only means that they need better scanning equipment, not that they won't find you. I call BS. Fine, stay in highsec. I won't lose any sleep about it.
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:39:00 - [25] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: murder one Originally by: Destination SkillQueue So you proved correct the whines, that missioning in lowsec is not as profitable as missioning in highsec, because you are constantly being interrupted by pirates and have an increased chance of losing your ship. No, I was making ISK quite efficiently. I wasn't interrupted. I was simply able to avoid being interrupted by said pirates. So no, the whines are incorrect. I can do this too. I can make "efficiently", the DS was making is that you can be MORE efficient in highsec. It's true too. I'm not agreeing mission rewards are unbalanced, but lowsec missions aren't in par. I agree with you that lowsec rewards aren't up to snuff. I don't think an increase of 10-20x the current rewards is unreasonable. Wait, so lets get this straight. You manage to not get probed out while doing a few missions even though you saw probes on the scanner? Now do you know for a fact those probes were meant for you? If so then how can you say you were not interrupted at all by pirates? That makes zero sense. If you are out there for hours and constantly being probed out eventually someone who knows what they are doing is going to find you. If they are in fact pirates looking for you they will find a way to disrupt what you are doing. Without proof other then what you said happened it makes no sense. Either they were not looking for your or they were brand new to scanning and failed due to the newbness. If they did manage to probe you out and did attack you then you either faced wannabe pirates or ill equiped pirates or pirates during their group's normal inactive times. So either you faced newbs, pirates looking for different prey or the late or early shift of a corp. Now when you bring proof that people did in fact have 5-10times your numbers, a hardcore..dedicated prober and had the intention of finding and killing YOU, I'll consider believing you. If anything they might have merely been shocked that someone was doing a mission in lowsec. Then again we know nothing about the people you saw in local nor their intentions and better yet if they live in that area or not. I have lived in a low sec area with 3 L4 agents in lowsec and generally the locals were the type that didn't attack unless agressed first. They were happy to have more people doing L4s in their system as a percentage of those that joined the area were willing to help beat back any pirates that would show up every 2 days for an hour or two at most. Low sec mission running isn't the hardest thing to do if you find the right areas and start networking with the locals. Yes it will attract pirates but they are basically working against a timer as once they show up in local they only have a few minutes to catch some fish. If they fail then they have only 2 choices. A> they heckle the locals that are docked up or B> they leave. SOme locals will want a fight just as much as the pirates while others want to wait it out so the pirates leave out of boredom. Some areas though are just to hot to bother mission running in. The problem is the rewards are not that great when compared to hisec. So even a small window of possible risk can be to much for the slight increase in pay. Add in marauders and you can negate any advantage a lowsec runner has over a hisec one. Now as for the idea of changing rewards 10-20times for lowsec, don't you contradict yourself there? You mock the risk yet somehow see a reason to increase the reward 10-20times? If there is no risk, why such an increase in rewards? Personally I'd like to see reasons to be in lowsec increased. I liked the idea of non alliance built player communities forged by similar goals and needs for protection. the time we spent out there was fun. I'd like to see the rats buffed a bit more as well.
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.14 13:54:00 - [26] Originally by: murder one I went to a lowsec area this afternoon and ran some L4 missions for a few hours just to see what it was like (horrible in fact) and was immediately hunted by pirates. You ran missions for a few hours and you now feel qualified to speak for mission runners that do it day in and day out. I donÆt expect you to answer this honestly but, what would you tell me if I bashed piracy and that I know what I speak of because I pirated for a couple of hours one day? Nonetheless, I will assume you are now a fully qualified mission runner with enough experience to talk about the profession as your own. And I will take your comment that you were immediately hunted by pirates as fact. Originally by: murder one In addition to multiple groups of pirates not killing me I was also able to complete all of my missions without losing any standing or bonuses. The pirates trying to kill me were using faction probes so I have to assume that they were giving it their best effort to try and kill my BS, but fortunately I can operate simple tools like the local channel and my onboard scanner and was able to easily avoid being probed out and killed. How many missions did you complete during your time as a mission runner? What was your profit? How did it fare against your high sec mission running earnings? While you were being probed down by these multiple groups of pirates how did you manage to complete the missions in time? Were any of your missions busted? If so, how did you manage to complete it/them afterwards? If you had help from corp mates and friends, did you share your earnings? Did you take this into account when calculating profits? You stated you used the onboard scanner. How much data did the results contain? How often did you scan for probes? How often did you dock? How often did you warp away from your missions? Knowing that local was full of ôgroups of piratesö did you feel that running the missions was still a good decision? Why? Originally by: murder one Frankly I think that not being a mouth breathing neckbeard carebear and having some semblance of intellect and common sense, on top of not being so lazy and greedy that I insist on ignoring all the danger signs of being actively hunted by pirates is completely overpowered. My friend, IÆm hoping we could have a discussion on the issue without the name-calling, ad hominem, and insults, or at the very least keep them to a minimum. Originally by: murder one As a suggestion on how to remedy this situation I propose that all level 4 missions spawn a beacon that is able to be warped to by anyone in the system and shows up on everyone's overview if they have the 'carebear ISK farming beacon' box checked in their overview settings. This will make it a little harder for people like myself with an IQ greater than that of a doorstop to get away from all of those hard working penniless pirates out there. I assume this is sarcasm and therefore wonÆt comment. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Drunk Driver Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.07.14 14:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Bazuka Lets see. So you work at a construction site #1 every day. You get payed daily and in cash. So everyday after work your valet has some cash in it. There are some lazy unemployed criminals that know this and they wait in the bushes to attack you after work so they can have some of your hardworking cash with little to no effort. There is a problem though. There are cops patroling the construction site and would gangrape any petty criminal that tries to take your money. Little down the road theres another construction site #2, but with no cops protecting it. It also has bushes and petty criminals around but it`s pretty much empty. Hmmmm I wonder why. So... one of these lazy criminals jumps out of the bush, comes to you one day and tells you: "Dude, dude, why you working here dude? I hear the construction site #2 pays little bit better. You should work there dude,it`s common sense, logic dude, logic. Same work, more money dude. All you have to do is look over your shoulder every day after work, stay alert and you need to be a good runner too so you can run away from criminals like me that try to mug you. So don`t work too hard dude, keep your energy for that running after work. I can`t catch you if you run fast enough dude I swear, none of us criminals can. You safe dude rly, common sense dude, logic dude...logic!" Hmmmm...hard choise! Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
Dagobert Dog	Posted - 2009.07.14 15:06:00 - [28] Originally by: murder one I went to a lowsec area this afternoon and ran some L4 missions for a few hours just to see what it was like (horrible in fact) and was immediately hunted by pirates. In addition to multiple groups of pirates not killing me I was also able to complete all of my missions without losing any standing or bonuses. The pirates trying to kill me were using faction probes so I have to assume that they were giving it their best effort to try and kill my BS, but fortunately I can operate simple tools like the local channel and my onboard scanner and was able to easily avoid being probed out and killed. Frankly I think that not being a mouth breathing neckbeard carebear and having some semblance of intellect and common sense, on top of not being so lazy and greedy that I insist on ignoring all the danger signs of being actively hunted by pirates is completely overpowered. As a suggestion on how to remedy this situation I propose that all level 4 missions spawn a beacon that is able to be warped to by anyone in the system and shows up on everyone's overview if they have the 'carebear ISK farming beacon' box checked in their overview settings. This will make it a little harder for people like myself with an IQ greater than that of a doorstop to get away from all of those hard working penniless pirates out there. Hi, since you are so smart, can you provide a proper tactic for gas harvesting? I want to harvest gas clouds in wormhole space. What can i do to avoid pirats? Is there any any valid tactic beside clicking scan every 2 seconds? - I cant stay allined because gas harversters have like 1500m range. - I cant fit a setup that can defend itself because gas harvesters need the whole cpu of a ship. - There is no local in wormhole space so i never know if a pirat is in system Do you really think that clicking scan every 2 seconds is a good game mechanic? Harvesting a cloud can take several hours even with 5 t2 harvesters. You really will get problems with you fingers if you want to detect probes.
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.14 15:51:00 - [29] The problem is not surviving. Being interrupted is as bad for profit as completing the mission after interruption is either suicidal [with a patient pirate camping it] or at least risky because the pirat knows wheere it is and can check it out. Surviving is easy, staying aligned, being cautious and warping out as soon as possible if someone shows up an is decloaked by the can at the beacon that is 50km away from you. BUT, if someone warps in [after successfully probing you out, what your pirates failed to do afaik murder which makes them either rather dumb OR you jumped out of the missions alot so they failed] the mission is almost a 100% default, which loses you standing and money....for profit oriented mission running a complete desaster, even L3 Highsec is better on the long run, unfortunately...
Draeca Tharri and Co.	Posted - 2009.07.14 15:57:00 - [30] I missioned my sec status from -7 to around -3 in lowsec, got probed only one or three times and didn't lose any ships. I agree that lowsec missionrunning is way too safe and should be nerfed.



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