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Lanissum
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.07.19 01:05:00 -
[1]
This is just a straight copy from my pirate blog,http://www.yarr-yum.bogspot.com, thought you guys might be interested in it:
Many people complain about the inherent advantage older players get than newer ones, because there is basically no way for a newer char to get more skill points than an equal char.
Proponents of the current skill system claim (with a good degree of truth) that newer players can become just as proficient as any older player at doing any one thing, but that older players are just proficient at more things.
As I sit here, typing this up, I haven't really played much EvE for the past week or so. This is mainly because I'm waiting for Amarr Cruiser V to finally finish (5 days from now) and let me fly the Curse (Neuting from 30km away? Hell yah)
Currently, there is only one way of 'catching up' with the older players SP wise. That way is by purchasing a character (for a large isk sum) from somebody else made. I don't really like this 'solution', namely because it requires that you literally become an older player. As I sit on 4 billion + isk, I don't really want to buy an Uber PvP char (which probably costs 10b +) because I've invested over a year into Lanissum.
Instead, I'd like to suggest a few alternatives to purchasing an entire new character.
1. Instead of transfering the purchased character, the new character's skills (and assets, etc) are merged with yours, and the new character ceases to exist.
Pros: You get your SP's, they get their ISK, CCP gets more disk space, you don't have to trash your precious main.
Cons: Can't really think of any, although if you change your mind, it's not like you can just resell the char. (Well, you could, but then you'd basically be doing the same thing I'm trying to avoid here)
2. Instead of buying a character, you buy individual skills (pay x isk to finish a currently training skill now). The exchange rate would probably have to make it more expensive than buying a new char (I think that rate is about 200mil ISK/mil SP, so maybe 250m ISK/SP?)
Pros: You get exactly what you want, right now, instant gratification.
Cons: CCP doesn't get their $14 fee (kinda lame, since all they do is a quick database manipulation -_-)
3. Instead of buying a character, you pay to increase your training rate for a certain amount of time (or SP). Similar to the current noob 'x2 training bonus until 1.6 mil SP'
Pros: You get what you want.
Cons: If you just want to finish a skill NOW, too bad. And you better have a plan for all that extra 'bonus training' if you don't want to waste it.
I most prefer #2, although #3 would do in a pinch (namely because it's 'already implemented'). I especially like the idea of being able to actually catch up to older players without becoming one of them.
What do you think?
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente
War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.07.19 01:07:00 -
[2]
inb4 ****storm
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.19 01:10:00 -
[3]
Within 6 months or less you can be just as good in a single area as a player who played during the beta. Those who complain about it are not welcome here as they lack focus and patience. Wait what you say? Patience? Focus? FFS I pay to play this game for enjoyment!!!! you say. Well yes you do play for enjoyment along with the rest of us but what we consider enjoyment would cause a lesser mmo player to emorage cut himself. Yes, welcome to eve. 
 Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Blastrodamus
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Posted - 2009.07.19 01:11:00 -
[4]
there is a separate forum for this kind of junk... features and ideas. i suggest you check it out.
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Armoured C
Gallente
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.19 01:12:00 -
[5]
csnt stand of this BS about player not being able to catch up. There is a video of 2 brand new pilots piloting rifters killing BS and all sorts in CVA space.
the older you are just means you can fly more ships use more weapons.
everyone is constrained to level 5's
doesn't matter if you a 09 or a 05 player
you can still be ganked
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Leviathan9
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.07.19 01:23:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Leviathan9 on 19/07/2009 01:25:16
People seem to forget that "older" players started off as the "newer" player.. if the "newer" players want to catch up then they'll do so by putting in the amount the hours "older" players did and skill up in the same amount of time (give or take) as the "older" players did.. People just want a game where they can be uber good and have everything from the start.
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.07.19 01:33:00 -
[7]
An "Old" player, can create a new char, and within a few months, be a force to be rekoned with on the field of battle.
You know how I know? I've seen it done. You'd be suprised how many people have a Pirate, or faction warfare, or other pvp char that has under 7 months in game.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.07.19 01:40:00 -
[8]
I have an 03 alt you can buy if you want.
Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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No Homo
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.07.19 01:40:00 -
[9]
Cry more noob
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.07.19 02:42:00 -
[10]
Ya but all the old players are just that OLD!
Slow reflexes, poor eyesight, difficulties urinating etc.
Enjoy your youth!
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Lakai Balthasar
Caldari
Cool Ninjas of Awesome Ownage
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Posted - 2009.07.19 03:14:00 -
[11]
Really, none of this WoW "I play a month and catch up with everyone else crap". Thank you very much. :)
__________________________________
The End Always Justifies The Means |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2009.07.19 03:53:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Wendat Huron on 19/07/2009 03:54:09
I think we've seen this topic too many times on this forum. Why don't you read them some and suffer like we do then post? Instead of coming here without reading about the last guy with the topic we strung up on a lightpole.  
Delenda est achura. |
Lanissum
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.07.19 03:55:00 -
[13]
Well, I think most of the time when people complain about this, their issue isn't that they 'have to be patient' but rather this:
You start a char in '03.
In 09, you're an excellent (SP wise) pvp char, who can proficiently fly any t1 ship, and most t2 ships.
Some1 starts a char in '09.
In '15 the newer char can also proficiently fly any t1 ship and most t2 ships. But by this time, the '03 char can also fly capitals too.
By the time the '09 char masters capitals, the '03 char has mastered yet more things. Currently, there is no way for the '09 char to ever catch up to the '03 char, short of buying said '03 char.
In my particular case, I'm getting pretty close to 'almost maxed' out pvp skills for frigs-cruisers t1 & t2. After that, I'll start the series of level V's that I'll need to *actually* be maxed out (Rapid Fire V, Surgical Strike V, Drone Interface V, etc etc) [They're all at IV right now]
You guys complain about some1 who starts EvE, and a month later has more SP than you being unfair... well, there's not much stopping that char from just buying an '03 char (except isk, but trust me, isk is easy to come by). My particular axe to grind is that I *don't* want to buy a new char, and toss Lanissum aside. I want to be able keep Lanissum, and get the benefits I otherwise would by buying a different character, namely, gaining a bunch of SP for isk.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2009.07.19 03:59:00 -
[14]
You put the time in you get the advantage. 03 pilot can't be in the command ship and carrier at the same time, he may have the luxury to choose, you go with the command ship you specced for. You in time will have to choose too as you can't be in two places at once either, what is the problem really?
From what I can see here you fail at logic.
Delenda est achura. |
Lakai Balthasar
Caldari
Cool Ninjas of Awesome Ownage
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Posted - 2009.07.19 04:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lanissum
Currently, there is no way for the '09 char to ever catch up to the '03 char, short of buying said '03 char.
And you see this thing as bad because?
__________________________________
The End Always Justifies The Means |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2009.07.19 04:09:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Wendat Huron on 19/07/2009 04:10:30
Originally by: Lakai Balthasar
Originally by: Lanissum
Currently, there is no way for the '09 char to ever catch up to the '03 char, short of buying said '03 char.
And you see this thing as bad because?
He is a paying customer and he demands to be treated with respect and get the full endgame service now!
Way to go btw making the text to all gay italics.
Delenda est achura. |
Lanissum
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.07.19 04:12:00 -
[17]
No, my logic, in it's most distilled form:
New guys can buy old guys.
I want to buy an old guy, but I don't want to give up my current account.
Thus, I was suggesting a few methods where you could either:
Merge old guys with new chars/buy individual skills (though, this seems rather exploitable...)/buy increased training speed(same issues as individual skill buying)
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Lakai Balthasar
Caldari
Cool Ninjas of Awesome Ownage
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Posted - 2009.07.19 04:16:00 -
[18]
Sorry Wendat Huron, that was totally my bad about the gay italics... *bow*
__________________________________
The End Always Justifies The Means |
DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.07.19 04:34:00 -
[19]
There is nothing to discuss or debate; to catch up to someone in EVE you need to compete better. To compete better you do not need a superior character. It certainly helps, but its not even a high priority tool.
If some nublet thinks catching up in skillpoints is important, then so be it. That's why nublets keep crying about sp, because they're too newb to know any better. When was the last time you saw a 70mil sp guy bawling over how he can't catch up to a 90mil sp guy in any serious capacity?
Skillpoints are so meaningless that a small team of experienced players in crap characters can wreck havoc with a group of high sp but inexperienced players, even if their enemy has a supreme numbers and equipment advantage on top. People have been demonstrating this as early as 2004. I still have a video of "the nubtastic nubmen" on my hdd, in which an ATUK alt corp full of 200k sp alts empire war decs one of the top megacorps in the game and schools them.
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.07.19 04:36:00 -
[20]
Not to mention, I've actually done that several times throughout my EVE career. The first being against Techell, shortly after being inspired by said video.
Until very recently, I still had that 300k sp caldari alt on my main account ;)
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Michwich
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Posted - 2009.07.19 04:56:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 05:02:14
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 05:00:14
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 04:57:07
Id agree with OP, whether you think its BS or not the perception that this is a old boys club game is very real. Allowing to buy skills which the OP is basically asking isnt any different then how it works already where you buy skills in form of monthly skill training time called a subscription fee. The difference being the time it takes to get these skills and this is where anyone interesting in getting skills in less time would pay a premium.
OP's idea is consistent with what CPP is already doing - selling skills just in a different way. And in principle I agree, but Id much rather you had to work for your skills (grind) than wait and pay for them. But dont fool yourselves, there are many a player who stay away from this game for this very reason and a good number who dont continue playing for the same reasons (including myself).
There has to be some sort of boosting or shortcuts for new players to get ahead or at least give them the perception they can get ahead because when youre hit with a 20+ day skill to train as a new player , purely as a gamer and from a entertainment standpoint, it just doesnt make any sense to be waiting 30 days to be able to progress and expect a player to stay interested... hardly what id call a cliff hanger. This is where the new shortcuts and better boosters come in to help the new player keep up. Not all of us are interested in watching paint dry and many of us are willing to pay for the privilege not to, but you and I both know know that the divide between young and old will eventually grow to a point of ridiculousness that not even the most dishonest of you would defend.
The alternative would be to follow natures model and have the old farts die and rot to fertilize the soil for those that come after them. Server reset could also be in order, you grind your whole existence to collect shiny pieces of matter only to have the matter result back into its original chatoic form including yourself. Nothings forever, niether should your character be.
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Michwich
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Posted - 2009.07.19 04:59:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 04:59:43
...
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Esamir
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Posted - 2009.07.19 05:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Michwich
there are many a player who stay away from this game for this very reason and a good number who dont continue playing for the same reasons (including myself).
Imaginary reasons.
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Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.07.19 05:08:00 -
[24]
The problem with making changes based on perceptions, is that the perception doesn't necessarily change. Perception is how people see things, not necessarily how things are. Not necessarily based on reality.
The idea that someone playing longer is going to be superior will always be there. No way to dislodge it. I mean hey, this is a game with a 5 level cap on skills, and people still stick to the "I can't catch up!" belief.
Also, GTCs are bad enough. You should not be able to buy your way through this game. Buying ISK and time would just be rediculous. It would create a new perception, that people without money can never catch up with those with money (sort of like people feel about real life  ).
"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."
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De Guantanamo
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Posted - 2009.07.19 05:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lanissum
Pros: You get exactly what you want, right now, instant gratification.
Bold portion pretty much sums up the op's desires. Eve != instant gratification. Plain and simple. Now as for...
Quote:
What do you think?
I think you should gb2wow.
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Michwich
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Posted - 2009.07.19 05:33:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 05:35:12
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 05:34:21
Originally by: Khemul Zula
The problem with making changes based on perceptions, is that the perception doesn't necessarily change. Perception is how people see things, not necessarily how things are. Not necessarily based on reality.
The idea that someone playing longer is going to be superior will always be there. No way to dislodge it. I mean hey, this is a game with a 5 level cap on skills, and people still stick to the "I can't catch up!" belief.
Also, GTCs are bad enough. You should not be able to buy your way through this game. Buying ISK and time would just be rediculous. It would create a new perception, that people without money can never catch up with those with money (sort of like people feel about real life ).
In real life theres always a chance you can hit it big, catch up and even surpass the powers and families that be who have generations of wealth to their advantage. Now you take a look at CPP's rendition of a perfect game (life) and you can plainly see how it differs and why it would be a problem. If God designed our game this way, why isnt CCP doing it the same way? Is it even fair to hold CCP to such a high standard of design? I think so. In the meantime while CPP figures out how to make the perfect game, they can put in some stop gaps like mods that let you grind for skill training time, or better boosters that speed up that process, or just open up the market and let us buy them.
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TekNikk
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.19 05:37:00 -
[27]
The amount of stupid in this thread has reached critical mass many times over.
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Maria Kalista
Amarr
Emerald Forest Securities
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Posted - 2009.07.19 05:53:00 -
[28]
Threads like this make me sad. "Instant gratification". Jukk. 
'Me, me, me! Gimme, gimmme, gimme now, now niouw!!
Stop trying to change one of the core mechanics of this great game by turning it into a copy of all the other dumbed down MMO's out there.
No one is forcing you to play. If you don't like it stop playing it.
Originally by: Jacharian
This sounds like a bad idea. I'm in.
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Serpensis
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.07.19 05:57:00 -
[29]
Merging skills huh?
As an older player, I have to say : what is to stop me from buying and merging 7 other chars for 20B each?
I think that would leave the OP with even less chance of catching up.
OP; you fail.
--
"Fear accompanies the possibility of death,
calm sheperds its certainty." |
Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.07.19 06:02:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Khemul Zula on 19/07/2009 06:03:27
Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 05:35:12
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 05:34:21
Originally by: Khemul Zula
The problem with making changes based on perceptions, is that the perception doesn't necessarily change. Perception is how people see things, not necessarily how things are. Not necessarily based on reality.
The idea that someone playing longer is going to be superior will always be there. No way to dislodge it. I mean hey, this is a game with a 5 level cap on skills, and people still stick to the "I can't catch up!" belief.
Also, GTCs are bad enough. You should not be able to buy your way through this game. Buying ISK and time would just be rediculous. It would create a new perception, that people without money can never catch up with those with money (sort of like people feel about real life ).
In real life theres always a chance you can hit it big, catch up and even surpass the powers and families that be who have generations of wealth to their advantage. Now you take a look at CPP's rendition of a perfect game (life) and you can plainly see how it differs and why it would be a problem. If God designed our game this way, why isnt CCP doing it the same way? Is it even fair to hold CCP to such a high standard of design? I think so. In the meantime while CPP figures out how to make the perfect game, they can put in some stop gaps like mods that let you grind for skill training time, or better boosters that speed up that process, or just open up the market and let us buy them.
Oooooooooo***ay.
I can't argue with that logic. I'd try, but by the time I dig a point out of that rambling and figure out what thought process connected A, B, and C together into what appears to be some type of parallelogram (which is quite a feat with 3 parts) of confusion I'd probsably be insane. Atleast more so then usual.
<3 the language filters
"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."
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