| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Endemic Aggression
Exalted.
   |
Posted - 2009.07.19 06:05:00 -
[31]
wait for skills to train like everyone else b.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 07:24:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Lanissum
As I sit here, typing this up, I haven't really played much EvE for the past week or so. This is mainly because I'm waiting for Amarr Cruiser V to finally finish (5 days from now) and let me fly the Curse (Neuting from 30km away? Hell yah)
Well it's your time and money to waste, so you can do that if you like.
But I'd advise fitting out a bunch of arbitrators with neuts in the highslots and going out and having some fun with them.
I'll readily concede that having lots of SP sure is nice, but it's an incontestable fact that, outside of L4 missions, once you have about 5-6M SP in PvP skills, player skill completely dominates character skill. And, as mentioned above, at only a few hundred thousand SP, sufficient player skill can still outweigh lack of skill plus an arbitrary level of SP. All you're really asking for is to end up like those sad individuals who abuse their parents' credit cards to buy a 70M SP "toon" and then come whining to the forums about how unfair it is that "veterans dont get any advantage over new players". I'm serious - there was one in this forum a couple of days ago.
I'm quite serious with my advice above, by the way. A week or two spent losing a dozen arbitrators (one of the best T1 cruisers, btw) will make you a far more effective Curse pilot than any number of skills.
|
Galan Amarias
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 08:16:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 05:35:12
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 05:34:21
In real life theres always a chance you can hit it big, catch up and even surpass the powers and families that be who have generations of wealth to their advantage. Now you take a look at CPP's rendition of a perfect game (life) and you can plainly see how it differs and why it would be a problem. If God designed our game this way, why isnt CCP doing it the same way? Is it even fair to hold CCP to such a high standard of design? I think so. In the meantime while CPP figures out how to make the perfect game, they can put in some stop gaps like mods that let you grind for skill training time, or better boosters that speed up that process, or just open up the market and let us buy them.
Wow,
Where to begin, 1. RL comparisons fail. This is a game.
2. If this god you speak of designed EVE like his RL "game" we'd have had to wait billions of years for there to be players. 3. You admit you are quitting, your opinion ceases to count. 4. You admit you are quitting can I have your stuff?
5. It is possible to surpass the powers that be in EVE with less skill points than they have.
To the OP. Yes in principle buying an old character is like buying said old character's skills. The problem is it can not be balanced. With the old char you buy only the skills they have trained, you also get their reputation and sec status. What you want would provide an out to corp thieves who could erase their rep with a few mouse clicks and a fraction of the loot. This is EVE and actions have consequences. At most I'd agree to let you buy the entire package and change the name with a tab on your show info proclaiming who you used to be and an eve-mail sent to everyone who has you as a buddy when you change your name. No piecemeal skill hunt and peck, all or nothing.
-Galan
|
Drykor
Minmatar
Reform-Revolt
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 09:01:00 -
[34]
Buying chars was a bad thing in the first place and I sincerely hope CCP only implemented it to kill the black market (but I'm guessing they like the 20$ too)
Let's not take it further.
|
Dodgy Past
Amarr
Lollipops for Rancors
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 10:35:00 -
[35]
Just about hitting 8m SP at the moment after 5 months. At this point I'm already of use in a gang, maybe not a 'full' person but definitely more than a half in either an Arbitrator or a Harbie. ( no T2 medium lasers or advanced Weapon Disruption Skills ).
But give it another 4m SP and 2 and a half months and then I should be able to do 80+% of what any other character can do in those ships with all the trimmings ( T2, overheating etc. )
Getting that far within 7 and a half months of joining the game seems pretty fair to me, and allows me plenty of satisfying options.
I do find it interesting that your station spinning while you wait for your ship to train, how come you don't have other stuff that's worth doing?
|
Cypherous
Minmatar
Liberty Rogues
Rally Against Evil
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 11:04:00 -
[36]
As has been posted and pointed out, i have 63 level 5 skills yes that's bad for my age so sue me :P
In any given ship only so many of those level 5's actually do anything, sure i have advanced spaceship command 5 does that help me fly an omen, i have mining 5 does that help me fly a rifter?
The answer is no it doesn't all it does is give me more options in what i fly, i can fly more ships than you but if you max skills for a specific race or ship you'll do just as well as any vet in the game because only so many skills can help you in any given situation :)
So stop whining about not being able to catch up because its a piece of **** to do mate, also don't even think about whining that you can't do anything in PvP because all you need is a frig an MWD and a web to help in PvP and i'm sure you can train those in short order ;)
|
Nemiron
Amarr
Katsu Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 11:23:00 -
[37]
If you don't have the patience to skill up your own char, CCP gives you the opportunity to buy one from another player. Drawback is, that you lose the experience of skilling up your own char and not having the bond one has to a char when he raises the char itself.
All you want is to have all the good stuff without the bad - which will not happen.
As for buying skills with isk: since you can buy isk, you could essentially buy skill with RL money, which would simply kill the game. Just like SWG was killed by NGE.
|
ingenting
20th Legion
Sodalitas XX
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 11:55:00 -
[38]
so let me get this straight, you want to get more SP faster than everyone else who patiently have been training their skills to whatever number.... ok, thats very fair :)
_________________
- "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb."
|
TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 12:04:00 -
[39]
Go post in feature and development forum where we can all ignore crap posts like this.
|
Suey Syder
Alpha Lima Tango INC.
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 13:15:00 -
[40]
I totally agree, you really should stop playing a game that doesnt cater to your taste in insta gratification.
|
Skalet
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 13:23:00 -
[41]
dear OP
evidentally your brain mass is too small to play a game such as eve, as the most anyone can train a thing for is level 5.
i would go on but if you dont understand that, then your too dim to understand what i would say either.
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 13:32:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Lanissum
Currently, there is only one way of 'catching up' with the older players SP wise.
This is the rub of the issue, and why your ideas aren't really useful: they fix a problem that doesn't exist. Total SP is irrelevant, and not something that needs to be "caught up" to. The solution to your perceived problems is simple: change the incorrect perception.
Quote:
1. Instead of transfering the purchased character, the new character's skills (and assets, etc) are merged with yours, and the new character ceases to exist.
Pros: You get your SP's, they get their ISK, CCP gets more disk space, you don't have to trash your precious main.
Cons: You don't get what you pay for due to overlap. Older players will do the same, and to a larger extent since they have to means to do so. Creates radical differences between the haves the the have-nots (new players, by very definition, being have-nots). You will now never catch up.
Quote:
2. Instead of buying a character, you buy individual skills (pay x isk to finish a currently training skill now).[…]
Pros: You get exactly what you want, right now, instant gratification.
Cons: Instant gratification. Older players will do the same, and to a larger extent since they've already decided that they like the game enough to sink money into it. Creates radical differences between the haves the the have-nots (new players, by very definition, being have-nots). You will now never catch up.
Quote:
3. Instead of buying a character, you pay to increase your training rate for a certain amount of time (or SP). Similar to the current noob 'x2 training bonus until 1.6 mil SP'
Pros: You get what you want.
Cons: Older players will do the same, and to a larger extent since they've already decided that they like the game enough to sink money into it. Creates radical differences between the haves the the have-nots (new players, by very definition, being have-nots). You will now never catch up.
All your proposed solutions are to a problem that doesn't exist, and actually only serve to worsen that problem even if it were to exist. If you want to change the skill system (for whatever reason) you need to provide a good argument as to why — "don't wanna!" isn't an adequate reason.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Zartanic
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 14:31:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Zartanic on 19/07/2009 14:32:45
Reminds me a bit of when I played WOW. Many players used to cry for better gear not realising all they had to do was play better. They failed in the game as they were bad but the first thing they used as an excuse is not being able to get better gear. When they got it they still failed of course so then they cried for more gear...and so on, never ending.
Of course at the same time they moaned content was too hard for whatever silly excuse they could bring up (all of which failed on cursory examination, like 'having a life' or 'I want fun not a job')
The fact players where doing content in inferior gear did not seem to factor into their heads as a big hint they were simply bad and needed to learn the game better.
There is considerable evidence in EVE that a low SP player can do a lot, more than most games actually.
|
Pater Peccavi
Minmatar
Cadre Assault Force
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 14:33:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Pater Peccavi on 19/07/2009 14:35:02
Originally by: Khemul Zula
Edited by: Khemul Zula on 19/07/2009 06:03:27
Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 05:35:12
Edited by: Michwich on 19/07/2009 05:34:21
Originally by: Khemul Zula
The problem with making changes based on perceptions, is that the perception doesn't necessarily change. Perception is how people see things, not necessarily how things are. Not necessarily based on reality.
The idea that someone playing longer is going to be superior will always be there. No way to dislodge it. I mean hey, this is a game with a 5 level cap on skills, and people still stick to the "I can't catch up!" belief.
Also, GTCs are bad enough. You should not be able to buy your way through this game. Buying ISK and time would just be rediculous. It would create a new perception, that people without money can never catch up with those with money (sort of like people feel about real life  ).
In real life theres always a chance you can hit it big, catch up and even surpass the powers and families that be who have generations of wealth to their advantage. Now you take a look at CPP's rendition of a perfect game (life) and you can plainly see how it differs and why it would be a problem. If God designed our game this way, why isnt CCP doing it the same way? Is it even fair to hold CCP to such a high standard of design? I think so. In the meantime while CPP figures out how to make the perfect game, they can put in some stop gaps like mods that let you grind for skill training time, or better boosters that speed up that process, or just open up the market and let us buy them.
Oooooooooo***ay.
I can't argue with that logic. I'd try, but by the time I dig a point out of that rambling and figure out what thought process connected A, B, and C together into what appears to be some type of parallelogram (which is quite a feat with 3 parts) of confusion I'd probsably be insane. Atleast more so then usual.
<3 the language filters
I think he's saying he wants implants that allow you to train skills faster. It's about time CCP implemented some of those.
Edit: Khemul left an unclosed Edit tag, messed up my whole post.
______
Why has the number of players online dropped from 50k to 25k?
BECAUSE OF SWINE FLU |
Pepsicor
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 16:27:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Pepsicor on 19/07/2009 16:29:08
As much as I would love to see some of the OP's ideas happen. Sadly they won't unless there is a big change at CCP.
It's obvious that the game company running EVE wants to make more money. Look at all the ads they have. But still subscriptions have been pretty flat. So instead they nickle & dime the current players base.
If CCP really wants to make money and improve the subscription base they will have to make it so in 6 months a player can compete at the highest level with the best ships. There are plenty of great gamers in the MMO community who would love to participate in EVE who aren't going to invest years of their life to compete at the highest level.
Eve is a great game with the potential for some great PVP in regular game play and tournaments. But it shouldn't take years for a player to build skill points simply to fly a ship and compete with others. Right now it has nothing to do with player skill, it's all about skill points. (I know that will make the Eve Elite angry, but it's true.)
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 16:38:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Pepsicor
But still subscriptions have been pretty flat.
Eh… Sure, if by "flat" you mean "continuously rising for the last 6 years".
Quote:
they will have to make it so in 6 months a player can compete at the highest level with the best ships.
What "level" is that? Which are the "best ships"? The beauty of EVE is that neither of those two things exist, unlike the mindless bog-standard level-based MMOs out there. There are specific ships that are better for a particular purpose, but they are universally crap at everything outside of that role.
Quote:
Right now it has nothing to do with player skill, it's all about skill points. (I know that will make the Eve Elite angry, but it's true.)
It won't make them angry — it will just make them laugh as they proceed to create a new alt and blow you to bits with their starting frigs… 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
LiquidSteele
Terminal Impact
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 16:41:00 -
[47]
TBH they should get rid of the skill point system and let everyone be able to use any mod/ship they want.
Also remove isk as some people have more of it than others so obviously unfair, just have everything for free.
Seriously though, I'll always have more skill points than the OP and that makes me happy. |
Taedrin
Gallente
Golden Mechanization Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 16:47:00 -
[48]
To be frank, the distance between new and old players is a LOT closer than you think. Due to the geometric increase of skill training time, you can train most skills to level 3 within a day or two for what is usually a 15% increase in effectiveness. Level 4 takes anywhere from a few days to a week or so to boost that up to 20%. Level 5 takes anywhere from a week to over a month to train for that final 5%.
What this means is that the longer you train skills, the less advantage you gain from training said skills. The only exceptions to this rule are the level 5 skills needed to pilot or use various T2 ships/modules. And capital ships too, I suppose. I dare say that 6 month old character who focuses his/her training can become 90% as proficient as a 4 year old veteran.
|
Zartanic
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 16:53:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Zartanic on 19/07/2009 16:53:59
One problem is many see skilling as levelling, when its very different from that. You can blame most other MMORPG's for this.
Its easy to grasp, you can do a lot with few skill points. There is NO end game. You can be involved in any activity you want in a few months.
If players are really sitting in a station waiting for a skill to finish for most of their time they are in the wrong game as they have a very limited understanding of what they could be doing as viable and fun alternatives.
If you cant fly a ship for a while, so what? Pick one you can and get on with playing.
|
Killer Gandry
Caldari
Red Horizon Inc
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 16:53:00 -
[50]
For the dumbasses out there.
When you fly a HaC, howmany of your skillpoints are related to said HaC?
Same for any other ship, howmany of the total skillpoints are related to that special ship.
A 80 mill SP char might have 80 mill SP total, but someone who specially trained for 1 ship doesn't need 80 mill skillpoints to fly it at the best range.
The only benefit the 80 mill skillpoint guy has is that he might be able to fly more ships with max skills. But in the end you can only fly one ship at a time.
So for those comming with stupid suggestions like buying skillpoints or mergin skillpoints with your current character with a character you bought, go play some kiddie game.
|
Empyre
Domestic Reform
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 16:55:00 -
[51]
As a person that has trained MANY characters in this game, let me tell you.. it's not really that true. I've tried to train a character to do "everything" and that character would get pwned by any one of the characters with a fraction of the skillpoints that are specialized.
Your statement might hold true if the total trained skill times of two characters were laid out side-by-side, but that's not even close to an accurate comparison of skills if you want to determine character worthiness.
I could have one character trained to fly dreads and interceptors and the other character trained to only fly hacs. Most of the situations I could match these characters up in would never put one ahead of the other in abilities.
what the crap just happened? |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 17:00:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Pepsicor
Edited by: Pepsicor on 19/07/2009 16:29:08
As much as I would love to see some of the OP's ideas happen. Sadly they won't unless there is a big change at CCP.
It's obvious that the game company running EVE wants to make more money. Look at all the ads they have. But still subscriptions have been pretty flat. So instead they nickle & dime the current players base.
If CCP really wants to make money and improve the subscription base they will have to make it so in 6 months a player can compete at the highest level with the best ships. There are plenty of great gamers in the MMO community who would love to participate in EVE who aren't going to invest years of their life to compete at the highest level.
Eve is a great game with the potential for some great PVP in regular game play and tournaments. But it shouldn't take years for a player to build skill points simply to fly a ship and compete with others. Right now it has nothing to do with player skill, it's all about skill points. (I know that will make the Eve Elite angry, but it's true.)
The "I'm also one of the new guys. Having only played for about a month." telling people who have played for years how the game works. The truth is, that the longer you play, the more you come to realise it is your knowledge about the game that makes you fail/succeed in it. When you know the game well, the little difference SP makes is of no concern to you.
What you suggest is to make this game something the current subsribers aren't willing to pay for. And for what? To attract mystical phantom subscribers, that might never materialize. Those instant gratification people have dozens of games to choose from already, the companies that have catered for them(most MMOs) have lower subscriber numbers then EVE and usually lose most of those within a year or two. Also why would new players invest their time in a game, when the developer has just screwed over their existing playerbase and completely changed the nature of the game. Who on earth would trust such a developer ever again? The truth propably is, that you like instant gratification and expect everyone to be the same, so EVE should be changed to cater to your needs and false perceptions.
|
Pepsicor
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 17:11:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Originally by: Pepsicor
Edited by: Pepsicor on 19/07/2009 16:29:08
As much as I would love to see some of the OP's ideas happen. Sadly they won't unless there is a big change at CCP.
It's obvious that the game company running EVE wants to make more money. Look at all the ads they have. But still subscriptions have been pretty flat. So instead they nickle & dime the current players base.
If CCP really wants to make money and improve the subscription base they will have to make it so in 6 months a player can compete at the highest level with the best ships. There are plenty of great gamers in the MMO community who would love to participate in EVE who aren't going to invest years of their life to compete at the highest level.
Eve is a great game with the potential for some great PVP in regular game play and tournaments. But it shouldn't take years for a player to build skill points simply to fly a ship and compete with others. Right now it has nothing to do with player skill, it's all about skill points. (I know that will make the Eve Elite angry, but it's true.)
The "I'm also one of the new guys. Having only played for about a month." telling people who have played for years how the game works. The truth is, that the longer you play, the more you come to realise it is your knowledge about the game that makes you fail/succeed in it. When you know the game well, the little difference SP makes is of no concern to you.
What you suggest is to make this game something the current subsribers aren't willing to pay for. And for what? To attract mystical phantom subscribers, that might never materialize. Those instant gratification people have dozens of games to choose from already, the companies that have catered for them(most MMOs) have lower subscriber numbers then EVE and usually lose most of those within a year or two. Also why would new players invest their time in a game, when the developer has just screwed over their existing playerbase and completely changed the nature of the game. Who on earth would trust such a developer ever again? The truth propably is, that you like instant gratification and expect everyone to be the same, so EVE should be changed to cater to your needs and false perceptions.
Finally we have someone who is honest. This is the post I've been waiting for.
So it's not about the new players, screw the new players. It's about the old players and keeping the old player base happy.
I do appreciate your honesty.
It had to be said.
Maybe there is a way to make everyone happy.
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 17:15:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Pepsicor
So it's not about the new players, screw the new players. It's about the old players and keeping the old player base happy.
Way to not read the post.
What he said was: screw the non-existing players — keep the actual players happy.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
ThrashPower
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 17:15:00 -
[55]
Without jumping on the flame bandwagon. Wouldn't these ideas just increase the gap, older players are more likely to have more isk, thus they are the ones who will use your suggested services and gain more sp.
|
Lanissum
The Python Cartel.
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 18:51:00 -
[56]
WoW, I wasn't expecting this post to be so... 'popular'. After skimming through the inevitable flames, I did glean some decent counter arguments... namely:
1. Old players can also do anything that I've suggested, and they'll probably have more resources to do so.
2. Some of my ideas are a bit exploitable (especially the skill merging one)
3. You can get to 90% (I would say more like 80%, but w/e) effectiveness within a few weeks in any particular field (except for mandated level V's)
So, I guess I'd like to know what you guys think of the current system (CCP sanctioned character sales).
-sig-
Check this out!
Get Free Mods! |
Miss MaxxJaxX
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 19:17:00 -
[57]
The math behind it is realy very simple. The reason the old chars have more skills is because the started paying for it 5 years earlier....
|
N'tek alar
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 19:37:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Lanissum
*snip*
Ok, you want a downside to this idea of yours? i'll give you a big one.
Old character with loads of sp does something that trashes his reputation and possibly his sec status as well, leaving him hunted by people, not trusted by just about anyone due to multiple large scams/corp thefts etc and a -10 sec status.
Old character makes a new alt, then "sells" his char to new alt, Thereby effectively resetting his sec status and reputation.
rinse, repeat.
Oh and ofc he will be able to do so for a small fee instead of spending obscene amounts of isk to replace his awesome char, After all, if this service isn't cheap (rl cost that is, it'll obviously be free for him iskwise as he owns both selling and buying char), it's not like CCP could charge a lot for it since noone would use it if they did.
Your idea isn't "a bit exploitable", it's a bad idea because it's nothing more than a way to cheat your way out of taking responsibility for your actions (and yes, i would definitely prefer if char sales were entirely impossible, but at least to buy a competent pvp char you'll have to pay up a large sum of isk instead of a tiny sum of rl money, the way you're suggesting.) |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
Estel Arador Corp Services
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 19:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: ThrashPower
Without jumping on the flame bandwagon. Wouldn't these ideas just increase the gap, older players are more likely to have more isk, thus they are the ones who will use your suggested services and gain more sp.
This.
FREE! jumpclone service: Forum thread|Podlog |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 20:33:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Lanissum
WoW, I wasn't expecting this post to be so... 'popular'. After skimming through the inevitable flames, I did glean some decent counter arguments... namely:
1. Old players can also do anything that I've suggested, and they'll probably have more resources to do so.
2. Some of my ideas are a bit exploitable (especially the skill merging one)
3. You can get to 90% (I would say more like 80%, but w/e) effectiveness within a few weeks in any particular field (except for mandated level V's)
So, I guess I'd like to know what you guys think of the current system (CCP sanctioned character sales).
I'd suggest that most of us dont like character sales as such, but that, as with GTC-for-ISK, it's a question of being the least worst option, with the additional benefit of providing a useful amount of revenue to CCP (thereby averting the evil day when they raise their prices).
And... it does at least provide a genuine, game-legal alternative for a new player who believes he has the personal skill to match an old character's skills.
At the end of the day, I'd say most of us dont worry about it that much because when we say things like "player skill beats skillpoints", we actually mean it. So if some day-1 noob wants to drop ú400 on GTCs to buy a 35M SP character, more power to him; he's still only a day-1 noob. It's just not really a problem. The biggest drawback to character sales is in my opinion that corp thieves &c can recycle their ISK. But even if character sales were outlawed, they would happen anyway (check eBay).
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |