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Salvage theft durring Mission

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Xianbei	Posted - 2009.08.03 18:14:00 - [61] again ? eve does not provide free rides unless you buy GTC
Nouva MacGyver Caldari MacGyver Communications	Posted - 2009.08.03 18:31:00 - [62] Originally by: Furb Killer it is obvious that the isk they make with it is a sad ammount, that is just a fact. Sad amount in relation to what? In turn, a fact by taking into account what? You make the mistake of presumably (see? IÆm trying to be honest, IÆm assuming here) comparing isk/time of ninja salvaging to an activity with higher isk/time ratio. I ninja salvage, I think I make excellent ISK out of it without considering ISK/hour, thus I say otherwise. Thus your ôfactö is a personal opinion and experience. Read on. Quote: So if they dont do it for the isk, why do you think they do it? Oh yes, if I donÆt make more ISK/hour doing ninja salvaging than doing [insert activity that gives out more ISK/hour here], I absolutely, surely, without a doubt, MUST be doing it to give someone else a bad day right? Quote: If they would do it for the isk, why dont they just ask in local if they may salvage someones mission? Why should ISK gain be related to X number of times you ask to salvage someoneÆs mission? So now if someone doesnÆt ask and continues to work to scan down a mission site to salvage they are not doing it for the isk? Perchance there may be a corp that has exercised this avenue (of asking) and found it far better to organise a good number of people together in different roles and maximise their efficiency? Quote: Not needing to scan it out + knowing before hand which mission it is + being able to tractor makes it alot more profitable. Again, the fallacious assumption that the enjoyment of EVE has to be tied into a formula with ISK/hour on it. Or perhaps this is a fixation with doing the least amount of work with least amount of risk for most amount of ISK and centering everything about EVE onto this concept? Quote: and when a ninja salvager comes in for sure they will stop doing it IÆve ninja salvaged a mission runner before, looted the wrecks even, and he didnÆt stop to continue making more wrecks. He doesnÆt even attempt to lock me. I guess we can throw ôfor sureö out of the argument now? Quote: and you cant tractor beam Note: Tractors are not the be all end all to salvaging faster. Why? Consider a ninja salvager with a faster ship, better levels in salvaging skill, and in the case of everything else possibly being equal, his/her better chances at having that salvage in his/her hold first. Quote: it is reasonably safe to assume you make less isk salvaging than when i salvage myself, which i do with a dessie with 8 salvagers from a wreck ball. The ninja salvager does not gain ôless ISKö, he simply gains ISK. The moment he gets a salvage into his hold from the mess you made heÆs already in the green. The comparison is irrelevant anyhow as salvage is an added "bonus", apart from the millions you already make off bounties and mission rewards. Quote: Even then the fast majority of the missions dont give more isk/hour salvaging than mission running. So there is no way a ninja salvager makes more than he would when he does missions in a well fitted raven. Stop relating ninja salvaging to the (broken) ISK profitability of L4 missions, and stop relating ninja salvaging to the choice of it being strictly about maximised ISK or if not then it's griefing. One may actually enjoy it, and is doing the (actually bothering to think) mission runners a service by offering YOU the opportunity to exercise varied strategems to outwit, outclass or outplay them. Now, back to OP: Working as intended. Not supported.
Mr Sean	Posted - 2009.08.03 19:28:00 - [63] (adds OP to his address book so he can track him down and ninja more of his missions)
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.03 20:03:00 - [64] Edited by: Furb Killer on 03/08/2009 20:06:14 Edited by: Furb Killer on 03/08/2009 20:04:23 Quote: If it's such a sad amount of ISK, why do so many people care that they swoop in and take it? I wonder the same. Quote: Why should ISK gain be related to X number of times you ask to salvage someoneÆs mission? So now if someone doesnÆt ask and continues to work to scan down a mission site to salvage they are not doing it for the isk? Perchance there may be a corp that has exercised this avenue (of asking) and found it far better to organise a good number of people together in different roles and maximise their efficiency? I have no idea what you are trying to say, since it gave me a headache when i tried to read it. However just try to explain me again, if you do it purely for the isk+fun which is not related to griefing, why scan for a mission runner when you can also ask one to fleet you + have the bonus of being able to use tractor beams. Quote: IÆve ninja salvaged a mission runner before, looted the wrecks even, and he didnÆt stop to continue making more wrecks. He doesnÆt even attempt to lock me. I guess we can throw ôfor sureö out of the argument now? Go go selective quoting taking it completely out of its context. Did he continue making a wreckBALL? Because that was what it was about, wreckBALLS, not wrecks. Of course i also just continue if a ninja salvager is in the mission.
Constable Chang Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.08.03 21:03:00 - [65] Edited by: Constable Chang on 03/08/2009 21:07:05 I'm a 'ninja' salvager. I'm not a thief. I'm not a griefer. I don't abuse the mission runners when I'm salvaging a live mission. I respect the mission runner and their right to the loot. Some ninja salvagers mock and intimidate the mission runner, they get pleasure from hurting the fun of others. They try to get the mission runner into PvP combat. They steal the loot. I was once a member of Suddenly Ninjas but left after it became apparent that they were far too belligerent for my liking. Ninja salvagers need to remember that we need the mission runners. Mission runners generate wrecks. Wrecks generate salvage. Salvage generates rigs. Rigs benefit everyone. And there are many missions that would not be salvaged otherwise. The scanning is a lot of fun, I'd rather do that than ask to be invited to a mission site. I've considered offering my services for supporting mission runners, using Ewar or remote repping. Maybe that could work out too. I just can't stand running missions myself, or mining.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.08.03 22:23:00 - [66] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 03/08/2009 22:26:27 Quote: Some ninja salvagers mock and intimidate the mission runner, they get pleasure from hurting the fun of others. They try to get the mission runner into PvP combat. They steal the loot. It depends, really. The mocking generally doesn't occur until they make idiots out of themselves by getting angry over lost space money in a PVP game. but Chang raises a point people often miss; there's absolutely nothing wrong with the act of salvaging. There are "passive" ninja salvagers who are basically miners that mine wrecks instead of asteroids and fly frigates instead of barges. It's just that we are amused by people getting angry over something so trivial and part of the game, so we do our best to stir it up whenever possible.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.08.03 22:26:00 - [67] haha you said "salvage theft" noob Wherever you went - Here you are.
Chantilly Layce	Posted - 2009.08.04 02:15:00 - [68] Originally by: Viper FW ... steal your salvage If you knew how the game worked... you'd have so much more fun. Back to WoW for you.
Cipher7 No Limit Productions	Posted - 2009.08.04 02:21:00 - [69] First off the attitude. I hate the entitlement attitude that most mish runners seem to have, that they should be able to run L4's in hisec and never ever have any inconvenience of any kind. I loathe that mindset. As far as I'm concerned people like you slipped thru the darwin filter and don't belong in Eve. Secondly Eve is an ECOSYSTEM of entities FEEDING on each other. You feed on rats, someone feeds on your wrecks, traders feed on sellers, it's one big CIRCLE of people drinking from each other's CUP. Where the hell do you get off saying someone shouldn't be able to feed off you? Go die in a fire. This is not a single-player game bub, yes occaisionally someone will loot/salvage the wrecks you killed and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. The "my kills my loot" thing is a WoW carebear mindset and you people need to get OVER it. If someone scans down your mission, just keep blitzing it, eat the tasty rat bounties, finish the mission, and go to the next one. BM the wrecks you leave behind, every 1.5 hours jump in your salvager, and fly around to your BM's, if the wrecks are gone so what, move on to the next BM, and eventually fly back and work on the next mission. Often I don't even salvage my wrecks, I've found it's almost the same income if you loot/salvage or not, mainly I salvage for variety when I get tired of missioning. And yes I also ninja salvage in addition to running missions. I drink from someone else's cup, someone else drinks from mine. That's how you deal with the concept of ninja salvaging. Not sit there like a chode and cry "buhu he took my wreck." Eve is built around the concept that sometimes LOSSES will happen to you, and it will be nonconsentual, the point being stop judging your play experience by the wallet numbers going up. That's not what the game is about and you damn well know it. Honestly how many of the wrecks you made have been salvaged by someone else? %5? So CCP should just get rid of an entire profession so you get %5 more loot? You ****ers. Cry more.
Iria Ahrens Amarr 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.08.04 02:56:00 - [70] Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 04/08/2009 03:00:24 Originally by: Syrian Mettle Originally by: Iria Ahrens If you don't want others salvaging your mission loot, fit a salvager on your ship and salvage it first. Or better yet, ask for someone in local to salvage for you and split the salvage item. You keep them alive and the rats off them and you get at least part of the salvage. A dedicated salvager will be able to clean up most of the stuff before ninja salvagers could arrive on scene in the appropraite ship and take the stuff, it's a team game you know. Not that I disagree with you in any way, I just want to say that there is a difference in attitude between those that figure out ways to solve their own problems, and those that go whining for others to solve their problems. There are several different ways to avoid ninja salvagers, at least 3 have been mentioned on this thread. The problem isn't the ninja salvagers, it's the ones whining for someone else to solve their problems. EVE is not a game for people that want stuff handed to them. You have to take it for yourself and defend from all the others trying to take it from you, and if all your resources are stolen from your hanger because you gave someone access, CCP will pat you on the head and say, "use better discretion next time." -- Nobody expects the Amarr Inquisition!
Willy Pete Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.04 04:30:00 - [71] Quote: it is obvious that the isk they make with it is a sad ammount, that is just a fact. So if they dont do it for the isk, why do you think they do it? Eh? I interact with many, many ninja salvagers on a daily basis (both in my corp and outside) and a huge amount of them started because it was great money (If you do it correctly, of course). Quote: Seeing as that most mission runners wont be making a wreck ball, and when a ninja salvager comes in for sure they will stop doing it, and you cant tractor beam, and you got to scan the mission out, and enough of them will be crappy missions which you wasted time scanning, it is reasonably safe to assume you make less isk salvaging than when i salvage myself, which i do with a dessie with 8 salvagers from a wreck bal Scanning out a missionrunner takes...what, ~2 minutes? If that? A 'good mission' for a ninjasalvager is any one that has an appreciable amount of large/medium wrecks of a good faction. Tractor beams are great for being lazy, but they're not actually as efficient as you'd think unless the wrecks are, beforehand, pulled together...and even then, a ninja can focus his ISK/time towards training Salvaging (t2 salvagers + salvage tackles) whereas a missioner primarily focuses on fitting his ship..so, on average, a ninja will be far superior at salvaging than any missionrunner. Can you make as much as a good level 4 runner? No, because hisec missions are massively overpowered. But that's pretty much irrelevant. The act of salvaging is fun, it provides -enough- income...and yes, hearing people cry about lost spacemoniesÖ that wasn't theirs in the first place is also a big plus. This. Over the last 6 months I've made close to a billion playing on a computer that barely plays Eve, very part time due to RL issues, (of course getting a MR concorded helps), and I've never had so much fun. It's a cat and mouse game. Tears are fun and MR pinatas are the best of all.
Willy Pete Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.04 04:38:00 - [72] As to the efficacy of tractors - Sit at 0 distance to a MR and salvage his wrecks as he tractors them in. Why do I need tractors? Oh, and I make it a point of never smacking. Why insult the goose who lays the golden . . . er. . . wrecks?
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.08.04 04:57:00 - [73] Originally by: Furb Killer And not because i feel sorry for the ninja salvagers, because lets be clear, they just do it to grief and not to make isk. srsly? Do you even know how much salvage/rigs are worth? "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Davos Mal Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.04 05:18:00 - [74] Why would you want to remove salvaging as a profession? If I'm missioning and someone comes in to salvage my wrecks, I shoot each wreck as he arrives at it, just to annoy him. On the other hand, I find it greatly enjoyable to scan down someone in a mission and start salvaging his wrecks. The angry mails I get are more fun than the salvage, TBH.
Gallent Stonewill	Posted - 2009.08.04 05:29:00 - [75] Originally by: Constable Chang Edited by: Constable Chang on 03/08/2009 21:07:05 I'm a 'ninja' salvager. I'm not a thief. I'm not a griefer. I don't abuse the mission runners when I'm salvaging a live mission. I respect the mission runner and their right to the loot. Some ninja salvagers mock and intimidate the mission runner, they get pleasure from hurting the fun of others. They try to get the mission runner into PvP combat. They steal the loot. I was once a member of Suddenly Ninjas but left after it became apparent that they were far too belligerent for my liking. Ninja salvagers need to remember that we need the mission runners. Mission runners generate wrecks. Wrecks generate salvage. Salvage generates rigs. Rigs benefit everyone. And there are many missions that would not be salvaged otherwise. The scanning is a lot of fun, I'd rather do that than ask to be invited to a mission site. I've considered offering my services for supporting mission runners, using Ewar or remote repping. Maybe that could work out too. I just can't stand running missions myself, or mining. I would prefer to be able to keep both the loot and the salvage but if someone is going to ninja the mission I'm on I rather it be someone like you who will let me keep the loot and hopefully the mission item as well. I also accept that the salvage belongs to the first person who gets to it and it's not "theft" for some else to take salvage from a wreak I created but swiping the loot is since the person gets flagged for doing so. I just started salvaging my mission wreaks and seeing the prices for the stuff I pull out I can see why people spend the time looking for them. What I don't really understand is why swipe the loot and the mission item other then to grief.leave the runner the loot and item at least so they can get what ever cash from that and be able to finish the job,that might cut down on these kinds of thread.
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.08.04 05:35:00 - [76] Edited by: Havohej on 04/08/2009 05:36:47 I just think it's awesome when people make characters in video games with these really edgy, tough, aggressive-sounding names like "skullmaster deathscythe" and "killugood" and "VIPER" and then post common carebear whines. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.04 06:07:00 - [77] Originally by: Havohej Edited by: Havohej on 04/08/2009 05:36:47 I just think it's awesome when people make characters in video games with these really edgy, tough, aggressive-sounding names like "skullmaster deathscythe" and "killugood" and "VIPER" and then post common carebear whines. It's a commonly remarked phenomenon. Also, check out titles if they're in a corp; the more grandiose & pretentious the title, the more likely they've never shot at anyone more dangerous than Rachen Mysuna.
Iria Ahrens Amarr 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.08.04 06:08:00 - [78] Originally by: Havohej Edited by: Havohej on 04/08/2009 05:36:47 I just think it's awesome when people make characters in video games with these really edgy, tough, aggressive-sounding names like "skullmaster deathscythe" and "killugood" and "VIPER" and then post common carebear whines. ROFL! My name is Deathdealer Doomslayer, why is everyone always picking on me? -- Nobody expects the Amarr Inquisition!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.04 06:15:00 - [79] Originally by: Iria Ahrens Originally by: Havohej Edited by: Havohej on 04/08/2009 05:36:47 I just think it's awesome when people make characters in video games with these really edgy, tough, aggressive-sounding names like "skullmaster deathscythe" and "killugood" and "VIPER" and then post common carebear whines. ROFL! My name is Deathdealer Doomslayer, why is everyone always picking on me? That's High Star Admiral Deathdealer Doomslay to you, mister!
Cyprus Black Caldari 4 wing Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.08.04 07:02:00 - [80] There's no such thing as salvage theft. /thread ______________ Stupid people are amazingly clever at being stupid. They interpret the phrase "idiot proof" as some sort of challenge.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.04 07:14:00 - [81] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Furb Killer And not because i feel sorry for the ninja salvagers, because lets be clear, they just do it to grief and not to make isk. srsly? Do you even know how much salvage/rigs are worth? When i make a wreckball it is in general less than when i run the mission. Now sure in a marauder i do them quite fast, but then you add up the no tractor, need to scan out, no nice wreckballs, etc, it will also be less than a raven will make missioning. Then you can say you like salvaging better, but in that case again, why not just ask in local
Nouva MacGyver Caldari MacGyver Communications	Posted - 2009.08.04 07:59:00 - [82] Originally by: Furb Killer Edit: Instead of another round of (selective) quoting, why not just answer the simple question: Why scan out random mission runners when you can also ask in local if someone is okay with it if you come to his mission to salvage? (If no one is okay with it you can still scan for them). If I'm purportedly guilty of selective quoting, then you are assumably doing a very good job of selecting reading and comprehension. From an earlier post: Originally by: Nouva MacGyver Perchance there may be a corp that has exercised this avenue (of asking) and found it far better to organise a good number of people together in different roles and maximise their efficiency? So, the real question should be, why NOT? Why not carry on scanning and salvaging as you please when it can potentially make you more ISK as opposed to waiting on a mission runner to give his go ahead to a space and wrecks which he does not even have ownership over? Why not when it can, prior to salvaging the wrecks be used as a practice session to hone one's familiarity with the scanning process? Why not carry on doing it if it is a CCP sanctioned activity, labelled a mini-profession, and is enjoyable enough to the individual above the act of typing and/or begging to get into someone's missions? TL;D(F)R: Because we can, it is allowed, and there is ISK to be made.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.08.04 08:28:00 - [83] It is more efficient in the long run (Marauders may be the exception) to just steamroll missions and hand in, rinse/repeat. Salvaging takes too long for the bonus isk, If someone with enough skills to scan me out does so, and can make more isk/hour ninja salvaging than i can switching between missions and salvaging then i'll leave them to it. Chances are i'll do 2-3 missions in the time it takes to salvage one, and as it stands the lack of ability to filter wrecks by size means sorting whats worth it from whats not is extra hassle i dont need. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2009.08.04 08:33:00 - [84] Originally by: Blane Xero ...the lack of ability to filter wrecks by size.... You can. Just show the type column on the overview and it tells you what size wreck the wreck is. ________________________________________________ For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (Now with added summary!)
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.08.04 08:48:00 - [85] Originally by: Bibbleibble Originally by: Blane Xero ...the lack of ability to filter wrecks by size.... You can. Just show the type column on the overview and it tells you what size wreck the wreck is. Sorry, i meant as in remove small ones completely from the overview. Bad word choice _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Xikuan Minmatar New Furia	Posted - 2009.08.04 08:54:00 - [86] Dear Losers, Please stop whining about ninja salvagers. Your tears are fuel for the ninja salvaging clone producer. Play the fraking game to have fun instead of the ridiculous notion that maximum ISK/Hour = How your suppose to play a VIDEO GAME!!!! Signed All PvE EVE players who are not morons.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.08.04 08:59:00 - [87] They're not allowed to steal your salvage. If they take it out of a jetcan, they're flagged and there's no way they can steal it out of your cargohold or hangar, so they can't really steal salvage. Your problem is that you seem to think other people salvaging wrecks that you consider "yours" to be theft, but it's not, any more than mining asteroids in a belt you're in is stealing ore. Salvage is not yours until it's in your cargo hold.
Lord Wamphyri Amarr Starside Lost	Posted - 2009.08.04 09:35:00 - [88] Edited by: Lord Wamphyri on 04/08/2009 09:35:49 I remember the days when you could take ore/loot from someones can without flagging. Instead of adapting and using secure containers for ore etc the whiners did their thing and criminal flagging got introduced - finally the 'victims' could exact retribution on the theives.. except it didn't quite work out that way did it? Research a bit of EVE history, and hopefully you'll figure out that you really are better off with the way salvaging works now. My EVE Tattoo! My Second EVE Tattoo!
Mashie Saldana BFG Tech	Posted - 2009.08.04 09:51:00 - [89] How much do you actually make from ninja salvaging per hour? Of course the tears are priceless but you can't use it as ingame currency unfortunately.
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.04 09:58:00 - [90] Originally by: Mr Sean (adds OP to his address book so he can track him down and ninja more of his missions) do it for the lulz also post some proof and i send you ISK's Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist EvE FTW

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