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Viper FW
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.02 21:28:00 -
[1]
OK I know its allowed by CCP but I think if your running missions in 0.7+ security that someone should NOT be allowed to come in and steal your salvage and if they do then you should be at least able to shoot at them with out getting concord sicked on you. If you pod them then its should make you go global but if you just attack them or destroy there ship after they take your salvage then it should be ok.
This is how i think it should be.
If someone takes your salvage or loot in 0.7+ sec space, then they don't get attacked by concord
but you can attack them with out going global as long as you are in the mission area and you don't pod them.
MechLink
Open resource Gaming Site
http://www.mechlinkv3.net
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Kyle Langdon
Gallente
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.08.02 21:31:00 -
[2]
CCP has said that no one "owns" salvage therefore anyone can get it.
So...
No.
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Illwill Bill
Svea Rike
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.02 21:31:00 -
[3]
It's not your salvage to begin with, so flagging isn't going to happen. Being a salvage thief is an intended career path.
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Blnukem 192
Amarr
Revilers Cartel
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Posted - 2009.08.02 21:32:00 -
[4]
OP needs to cry harder.
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Sinuous Grace
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Posted - 2009.08.02 21:49:00 -
[5]
Oh dear god plz not this thread again
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.02 21:52:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Sinuous Grace
Oh dear god plz not this thread again
^^This
Also
Originally by: Viper FW
OK I know its allowed by CCP but I think if your running missions in 0.7+ security that someone should NOT be allowed to come in and steal your salvage and if they do then you should be at least able to shoot at them with out getting concord sicked on you.
You can already shoot them if they steal your salvage.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
AstroPhobic
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.02 21:55:00 -
[7]
The salvage isn't yours, therefore I don't know why you think you should own it.
Also, search.
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Treelox
Amarr
Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.08.02 22:04:00 -
[8]
Stop running you missions in a crowded system. Step down a tier of agent, move to a slightly less popular system and what do you know there are no "wreckage thieves".
--
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Celestrias
Gallente
Mid Knights
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.02 22:16:00 -
[9]
Didn't he make this same thread a month or so ago?
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Discrodia
Gallente
Guardian Legion
SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.08.02 22:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Celestrias
Didn't he make this same thread a month or so ago?
___________________________________________
MUFFINS :D |
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Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.08.02 22:18:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Khemul Zula on 02/08/2009 22:18:34
Originally by: Viper FW
...but you can attack them with out going global as long as you are in the mission area and you don't pod them.
 Oh that was good. Not in that "this was a good idea" way but in that "this idea just crossed the border from Serious, invaded the nation of Humorous, and burned the village of Rediculous to the ground" way.
"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."
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testirania
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Posted - 2009.08.02 22:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Viper FW
This is how i think it should be.
If someone takes your salvage or loot in 0.7+ sec space, then they don't get attacked by concord
but you can attack them with out going global as long as you are in the mission area and you don't pod them.
Yes this is a brilliant idea, off course that would also mean that they can shoot at YOU! and not being concorded  , this would bring even more tears on the forum if that was implemented 
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Venko Trenulo
Spelunkers
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Posted - 2009.08.02 22:49:00 -
[13]
CCP has been quite clear on this. Ironfleet has been kind enough to gather together a definitive collection of Dev and GM quotes.
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Scaldo Pwncakes
Gallente
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.08.02 22:52:00 -
[14]
No level 4's in highsec is a better idea.
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Labartu Sumeri
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Posted - 2009.08.02 22:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tippia
You can already shoot them if they steal your salvage.
It keeps coming up because of errors like this. You CANNOT shoot them for salvage; you CAN shoot them for the loot contained within the wreck.
Salvage as you go along, have an alt/friend follow you and do the salvage, or quit whining. Those are the only three options.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.08.02 22:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sinuous Grace
Oh dear god plz not this thread again
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Messoroz
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Posted - 2009.08.02 22:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Labartu Sumeri
Originally by: Tippia
You can already shoot them if they steal your salvage.
It keeps coming up because of errors like this. You CANNOT shoot them for salvage; you CAN shoot them for the loot contained within the wreck.
Salvage as you go along, have an alt/friend follow you and do the salvage, or quit whining. Those are the only three options.
You can also blow the wrecks as you go along, I'm a **** so I do that in dod missions ^^
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.02 23:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Labartu Sumeri
Originally by: Tippia
You can already shoot them if they steal your salvage.
It keeps coming up because of errors like this. You CANNOT shoot them for salvage; you CAN shoot them for the loot contained within the wreck.
It is not an error. If they steal your salvage, you can shoot them. Period. Even the CCP devs have confirmed this.
If you can figure out why I'm right, you find the answer to why these inane threads keep popping up.
FWIW, both the OPs wishes have already come true: not only can you shoot salvage thieves freely, there are sections of space where you're free to blow away anyone who enters your mission area.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Qwert0
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Posted - 2009.08.02 23:23:00 -
[19]
Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
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Tag Heuer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.02 23:50:00 -
[20]
I'd try to salvage what's left of this thread but alas there is nothing.
Is this a run on sentence or my signature? You decide. |
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ExChange
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Posted - 2009.08.02 23:59:00 -
[21]
Nothing against salvaging abandoned wrecks, but taking it right infront of you is just griefing.
Also think its wasteful, most salvage ninjas are poorly trained alts, doubt that they have the skills to access all the salvage...
Think that the wrecks should belong to a player for 1h then be free-for-all for 2h...
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.03 00:02:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ExChange
taking it right infront of you is just griefing.
LMAO.
Quote:
most salvage ninjas are poorly trained alts, doubt that they have the skills to access all the salvage
Yeah. Those 10h for Salving III are murderous.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.08.03 00:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK?
It's not.
It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to high-sec increase mission grinding any further.
Simple solution to the non-issue.
Please don't take this as any bashing just for suggesting ideas. I have nothing against brainstorming on the forums. However, I'm going to let you in on a little CCP non-secret which is: "NPE". 
EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. we never meant for it to be a breeze. However, it's also accepted that, on top of the intended complexity, the tools and rules you play with/by aren't highly intuative. You are suggesting a dual functionality.. one for newbies and another for vets (of course you did not say that, however just because some people chill in newb corps and ain't newbs doesn't mean we should punish the new players) and to compound the inherent confusion in that the newbie functionality is more hostile and more open to griefing than the veteran functionality. It shouldn't be much different.. and if it had to be it should be the other way around.
From a developers mouth no less 
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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Iria Ahrens
Amarr
101st Space Marine Force
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.08.03 00:10:00 -
[24]
If you don't want others salvaging your mission loot, fit a salvager on your ship and salvage it first.
--
Nobody expects the Amarr Inquisition!
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.03 00:13:00 -
[25]
If someone is stealing your salvage, either
a) Stop jettisoning your salvage... You can shoot them if they take it already, however
b) Petition them if they magically take it out of your hangar/cargo hold.
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VoiceInTheDesert
Inroads
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Posted - 2009.08.03 00:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tag Heuer
I'd try to salvage what's left of this thread but alas there is nothing.
You'd be stealing the salvage anyway and the OP has clearly stated their distaste for such behavior.
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Booken Blue
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2009.08.03 00:59:00 -
[27]
wardec them, for the better or the worst.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 06:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Scaldo Pwncakes
No level 4's in highsec is a better idea.
Make mission deadspaces lo-sec is the best idea.
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Nouva MacGyver
Caldari
MacGyver Communications
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Posted - 2009.08.03 07:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ExChange
Nothing against salvaging abandoned wrecks, but taking it right infront of you is just griefing.
"Abandoned wrecks" is a misnomer in this context, since it's free for all the moment it's created. You don't own the wreck itself so it is never abandoned. Working as intended.
Stop trying to make even more resources non-contestable in a way that is against the very nature of what EVE was intended to be, which is player competition in all possible forms. Most of us already know which is the one popular activity that's precisely this.
The sooner new players (including myself who got late into this game) realise this the richer and more fulfilling your EVE experience will become.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.03 07:23:00 -
[30]
Because the pirates in low sec allready have such a hard life...
As a mission runner i am against this. And not because i feel sorry for the ninja salvagers, because lets be clear, they just do it to grief and not to make isk. Their only goal is to ruin the game for others (When goons say that it is suddenly something bad, but when others do it it is apparently good).
Now i dont know why some carebears worry so much about it, since unless you are in a marauder and made nice wreck balls you dont earn more with salvaging than with mission running, and even when you made nice salvage balls it depends on the mission, and for sure isnt significantly more.
Why i dont want them flagged: Because i allready would prefer it that i can change something that loot thiefes dont get flagged. When a loot thief is in my mission i got another red target flying arround, and i am scared i will accidently fire on him (which is of course exactly what they want). Luckily usually their tactic is coming back in another ship, so then i can just warp out and wait 15 minutes docked (after i accidently shot them). But then i rather have salvage thiefes, where if i accidently click to attack them, which is smaller chance due to them not being red, i still got a nice warning popup.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 08:01:00 -
[31]
Move into low sec and this issue is sorted.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.03 08:14:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Labartu Sumeri
Originally by: Tippia
You can already shoot them if they steal your salvage.
It keeps coming up because of errors like this. You CANNOT shoot them for salvage; you CAN shoot them for the loot contained within the wreck.
It is not an error. If they steal your salvage, you can shoot them. Period. Even the CCP devs have confirmed this.
If you can figure out why I'm right, you find the answer to why these inane threads keep popping up.
FWIW, both the OPs wishes have already come true: not only can you shoot salvage thieves freely, there are sections of space where you're free to blow away anyone who enters your mission area.
Seeing as we are nitpicking:
- you can fire at them if they steal your salvage, without GCC (i.e. the salvage component you have already salvaged) from a can you dropped or from the wreck of your ship;
- you can't fire at them without GCC if they salvaged the wrecks you made or even if they salvage the wreck of your ship.
Note that GCC even if not dispalayed exist even in 0.0.
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Dario Wall
Caldari
Corvus Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.03 08:16:00 -
[33]
I just did my first job of ninja salvaging a moment ago. Apparently they didn't even see me in there with them while I was doing it, since they were asking in local who just stole all their salvage.
Just thought I'd share.
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Nouva MacGyver
Caldari
MacGyver Communications
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Posted - 2009.08.03 09:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Furb Killer
As a mission runner i am against this. And not because i feel sorry for the ninja salvagers, because lets be clear, they just do it to grief and not to make isk. Their only goal is to ruin the game for others.
Why, thank you for reading the minds of all ninja salvagers and deciphering their primary intentions.
You can just about expect an alliance, corporation or a player that has ninja salvaging as their regular activity to come along now to post here with detailed reports and relate to you otherwise on its profitability; but having to do that for the umpteenth time and in a lot of cases before (in other threads) in (such) a patient manner, I must admit is very kind of them in the face of repeated gross assumptions.
There are a lot more definable factors that constitute grief play. You feeling grief over an intended game mechanic in this case very likely means your own inability to use available tools and alternative strategies to lessen its occurrence, or you lack the understanding that (in this situation) it is only (emotional) grief when you choose it to be.
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Arrs Grazznic
Pawn Sauce
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Posted - 2009.08.03 10:18:00 -
[35]
As an old time mission runner (I wrote the EON mission running insider guides a while back), the current system is fine and does not need to be changed. GTFO of the mission hubs and problem solved.
Cheers,
Arrs
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Jim Pooley
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.03 11:43:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
If someone is stealing your salvage, either
a) Stop jettisoning your salvage... You can shoot them if they take it already, however
b) Petition them if they magically take it out of your hangar/cargo hold.
I see what you did there 
------------------------------------------
Mines a Pint of Large
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.08.03 12:21:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Viper FW
This is how i think it should be.
I cant share your opinion.
Taking other parties stuff is always robbery, doesnt matter who shot them. So you're actually committing robbery continously during your missions without being flagged to someone serious, why should others do?
Hence, flagging for looting NPC stuff should get removed completely because its ALWAYS robbery of NPC, not robbery of the robber (mission runner)!
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Syrian Mettle
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Posted - 2009.08.03 12:21:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Iria Ahrens
If you don't want others salvaging your mission loot, fit a salvager on your ship and salvage it first.
Or better yet, ask for someone in local to salvage for you and split the salvage item. You keep them alive and the rats off them and you get at least part of the salvage.
A dedicated salvager will be able to clean up most of the stuff before ninja salvagers could arrive on scene in the appropraite ship and take the stuff, it's a team game you know.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.03 12:29:00 -
[39]
This thread makes me want to dust off my ninja-Vigil, now that I'm slowly working my sec. status back up.
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Taram Caldar
GK inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 12:45:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 03/08/2009 12:45:42
Originally by: Kessiaan
This thread makes me want to dust off my ninja-Vigil, now that I'm slowly working my sec. status back up.
No kidding...
Also... OP: be careful what you wish for. Ask miners just how much they like the can flipping code now that they can shoot ships that flip their cans ;)
Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples |
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.03 12:46:00 -
[41]
We definitely needed another thread on this subject.
However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs.
second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
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Enuen Ravenseye
Gallente
Beer of the Month Club LLC
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Posted - 2009.08.03 12:51:00 -
[42]
I had someone ninja loot me the other day - not the same as ninja salvaging, but I really would have liked to have the opportunity to kill the little ***** (without being Concorded) nonetheless. Nothing like clearing a nasty Serpentis complex only to have some little bastard swoop in and steal the key to the next complex before I could reach the container (the last couple of kills took me a fair distance away).
I guess the lesson learned is kill anyone who comes near you, Concord be damned. I would have lost a cruiser (compared to the newb ship he would have lost) but at least I would have had some satisfaction.
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Taram Caldar
GK inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 12:58:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 03/08/2009 12:59:19
Originally by: Enuen Ravenseye
I had someone ninja loot me the other day - not the same as ninja salvaging, but I really would have liked to have the opportunity to kill the little ***** (without being Concorded) nonetheless. Nothing like clearing a nasty Serpentis complex only to have some little bastard swoop in and steal the key to the next complex before I could reach the container (the last couple of kills took me a fair distance away).
I guess the lesson learned is kill anyone who comes near you, Concord be damned. I would have lost a cruiser (compared to the newb ship he would have lost) but at least I would have had some satisfaction.
Uh... if he loots from a wreck you made you absolutely CAN shoot him (he will turn red in your overview). If someone LOOTS a wreck you made they get GCC, to you and your corporation, and can be fired upon without interferance from concord.
Be aware, however, that if you DO fire on them... they can shoot back... or they can come back in a bigger ship (for 15 minutes) and THEN shoot back.... or both.
Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.03 13:32:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Enuen Ravenseye
I had someone ninja loot me the other day - not the same as ninja salvaging, but I really would have liked to have the opportunity to kill the little ***** (without being Concorded) nonetheless. Nothing like clearing a nasty Serpentis complex only to have some little bastard swoop in and steal the key to the next complex before I could reach the container (the last couple of kills took me a fair distance away).
I guess the lesson learned is kill anyone who comes near you, Concord be damned. I would have lost a cruiser (compared to the newb ship he would have lost) but at least I would have had some satisfaction.
No. The lesson learned is: be quick.
A missed opportunity is not the same thing as theft. This goes for salvage and asteroids and free-for-all containers and all other kinds of scrap that's floating around in space: if you want it, get it before someone else does, and stop blaming others for your own slowness.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Salliene
Gallente
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.08.03 13:36:00 -
[45]
Every time someone makes a thread about ninja-salvagers, the problem will just get worse.
I can let out these little secrets cause I know no one will pay attention to them.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 13:51:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Enuen Ravenseye
I had someone ninja loot me the other day - not the same as ninja salvaging, but I really would have liked to have the opportunity to kill the little ***** (without being Concorded) nonetheless. Nothing like clearing a nasty Serpentis complex only to have some little bastard swoop in and steal the key to the next complex before I could reach the container (the last couple of kills took me a fair distance away).
I guess the lesson learned is kill anyone who comes near you, Concord be damned. I would have lost a cruiser (compared to the newb ship he would have lost) but at least I would have had some satisfaction.
Insofar as seeing him loot your ship wreck as well as the mission rat wrecks is satisfying, I guess.
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Doomed Predator
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.03 13:58:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sinuous Grace
Oh dear god plz not this thread again
Salvage whine 6 month forum ban. Problem solved
The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again |
Zartanic
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Posted - 2009.08.03 14:09:00 -
[48]
I was anti salvager, well I wanted them flagged, until someone came up with a sensible post and changed my mind.
The benefits of allowing people to salvage far outweighs the downsides to the mission runners when you take the whole EVE population. It also encourages carebears like me to take the plung and try low or nul sec missions as well as do more exploration, which has turned out to be a lot of fun for me.
So thanks Salvage ninjas you motivated me to do something different and I'm getting more out of the game for that.
Also remember not all mission runners salvage, so if it wasn't for those players doing it the price of rigs would be a lot higher which is even more relevant with the next patch.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.08.03 14:13:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sinuous Grace
Oh dear god plz not this thread again
Well it has been nearly 36 hours since the last one.
lol, unless of course, I've just posted a view opposing somebody who happens to have a friend in the forum moderation brigade. In which case, I meant to agree with you lol |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.08.03 14:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Qwert0
Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
I'm just pasting your entire post into notepad and saving it for convinience.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.03 14:19:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Sinuous Grace
Oh dear god plz not this thread again
Well it has been nearly 36 hours since the last one.
Let's have a new round of "nerf level 4s" threads then. After all it's traditional that the summer schedule is mainly repeats.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.03 14:30:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Nouva MacGyver
Originally by: Furb Killer
As a mission runner i am against this. And not because i feel sorry for the ninja salvagers, because lets be clear, they just do it to grief and not to make isk. Their only goal is to ruin the game for others.
Why, thank you for reading the minds of all ninja salvagers and deciphering their primary intentions.
You can just about expect an alliance, corporation or a player that has ninja salvaging as their regular activity to come along now to post here with detailed reports and relate to you otherwise on its profitability; but having to do that for the umpteenth time and in a lot of cases before (in other threads) in (such) a patient manner, I must admit is very kind of them in the face of repeated gross assumptions.
There are a lot more definable factors that constitute grief play. You feeling grief over an intended game mechanic in this case very likely means your own inability to use available tools and alternative strategies to lessen its occurrence, or you lack the understanding that (in this situation) it is only (emotional) grief when you choose it to be.
Go go selective quoting. Like i said before, but you probably wont read anyway again, it is obvious that the isk they make with it is a sad ammount, that is just a fact. So if they dont do it for the isk, why do you think they do it?
If they would do it for the isk, why dont they just ask in local if they may salvage someones mission? Not needing to scan it out + knowing before hand which mission it is + being able to tractor makes it alot more profitable.
Seeing as that most mission runners wont be making a wreck ball, and when a ninja salvager comes in for sure they will stop doing it, and you cant tractor beam, and you got to scan the mission out, and enough of them will be crappy missions which you wasted time scanning, it is reasonably safe to assume you make less isk salvaging than when i salvage myself, which i do with a dessie with 8 salvagers from a wreck ball. Even then the fast majority of the missions dont give more isk/hour salvaging than mission running. So there is no way a ninja salvager makes more than he would when he does missions in a well fitted raven.
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wickedpheonix
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Posted - 2009.08.03 15:25:00 -
[53]
I had a ninja salvager try to salvage the wrecks in my Angel Extravaganza high-sec L4 mission.
Now I'll admit I had an alt trying to salvage alongside me, but by the time I finished the AE mission, I had 99% of the salvage. The ninja salvager, on the other hand, was out 2 ships, some hours due to boredom, and got banned on top of it. (sorry, no exploits were involved either.)
There's a rather large number of ways to deal with ninja salvagers. I'm not going to share my methods, but if you just sit back and let the ninja salvager get away with it, you deserve to lose your salvage. EVE is a sandbox, use it as such and try to be imaginative.
End result: Working as intended.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.03 15:57:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 03/08/2009 16:05:19
Quote:
- you can't fire at them without GCC if they salvaged the wrecks you made or even if they salvage the wreck of your ship.
Correct, but that's not stealing.
Quote:
it is obvious that the isk they make with it is a sad ammount, that is just a fact. So if they dont do it for the isk, why do you think they do it?
Eh? I interact with many, many ninja salvagers on a daily basis (both in my corp and outside) and a huge amount of them started because it was great money (If you do it correctly, of course).
Quote:
Seeing as that most mission runners wont be making a wreck ball, and when a ninja salvager comes in for sure they will stop doing it, and you cant tractor beam, and you got to scan the mission out, and enough of them will be crappy missions which you wasted time scanning, it is reasonably safe to assume you make less isk salvaging than when i salvage myself, which i do with a dessie with 8 salvagers from a wreck bal
Scanning out a missionrunner takes...what, ~2 minutes? If that? A 'good mission' for a ninjasalvager is any one that has an appreciable amount of large/medium wrecks of a good faction. Tractor beams are great for being lazy, but they're not actually as efficient as you'd think unless the wrecks are, beforehand, pulled together...and even then, a ninja can focus his ISK/time towards training Salvaging (t2 salvagers + salvage tackles) whereas a missioner primarily focuses on fitting his ship..so, on average, a ninja will be far superior at salvaging than any missionrunner.
Can you make as much as a good level 4 runner? No, because hisec missions are massively overpowered. But that's pretty much irrelevant. The act of salvaging is fun, it provides -enough- income...and yes, hearing people cry about lost spacemoniesÖ that wasn't theirs in the first place is also a big plus.
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.08.03 16:05:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
- you can't fire at them without GCC if they salvaged the wrecks you made or even if they salvage the wreck of your ship.
Correct, but that's not stealing.
Quote:
it is obvious that the isk they make with it is a sad ammount, that is just a fact. So if they dont do it for the isk, why do you think they do it?
Eh? I interact with many, many ninja salvagers on a daily basis (both in my corp and outside) and a huge amount of them started because it was great money (If you do it correctly, of course).
I have recently trained up a ninja salvager alt, and I can say that it is making better money than my main did with the same amount of training. You can really make a lot of money if you can find a good mission to salvage.
________________________________________________
For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (Now with added summary!) |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.08.03 16:27:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Go go selective quoting. Like i said before, but you probably wont read anyway again, it is obvious that the isk they make with it is a sad ammount, that is just a fact. So if they dont do it for the isk, why do you think they do it?
If it's such a sad amount of ISK, why do so many people care that they swoop in and take it?
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Professor Tarantula
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Posted - 2009.08.03 16:30:00 -
[57]
If anyone shows up and starts salvaging while you're still there, just keep warping out so the NPCs go after them. The few people who've wandered into my missions always give up after about 4 or 5 of those. I'm also fine with just docking and watching TV or something while they wait for me to come back.
But If someone is salvaging your finished missions, you simply need to learn how to be faster. I had one guy try and outsalvage me and i think he only got one for all his effort. I was mocking him in local. Good times.
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wickedpheonix
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Posted - 2009.08.03 16:43:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Originally by: Furb Killer
Go go selective quoting. Like i said before, but you probably wont read anyway again, it is obvious that the isk they make with it is a sad ammount, that is just a fact. So if they dont do it for the isk, why do you think they do it?
If it's such a sad amount of ISK, why do so many people care that they swoop in and take it?
Because what constitutes a "sad amount" of ISK differs as your SP (and experience in playing) go up. As a new player, you can either spend SP on mission skills or mining skills and make like 500k per hour if you're lucky. Or, you can start salvaging and make, say, 10m per hour depending on the mission you happen in upon.
The problem that a lot of new players who decide to do ninja salvaging is that the 10m per hour doesn't improve over time. As a miner skilltrains more, he'll eventually get into a Hulk, t2 strips, t2 crystals, exhumers 5, etc. etc. and earn more isk especially in a gang. Missioners will eventually train their way up to being able to run L4's, t2 weapons, social skills, etc., so their isk/hour is always increasing as they train more skills. Once the ninja salvager trains salvaging 5, there's really not much else he can do to improve his isk/hour.
At that point, the ninja salvager doesn't really know what to do - start the long, arduous path of training mission skills and bumping standings? To the new ninja salvager EVE has always been and therefore will stay a purely salvage-based game and there's nothing else he can apply his skills to. There's very little risk involved which is highly un-EVE-like, and in the end it just gets really, really boring.
And for the mission runners ourselves, we can do without the 10m in salvage... maybe once or twice. But it definitely adds up over time and it is certainly not chump change, especially for those of us who have an alt/Marauder doing the salvaging at the same time where the salvage really does mean more isk/hour instead of just a different kind of isk/hour when missioners salvage after their mission is over.
TL: DR - Ninja salvaging is a good way to suck people in but not to hold onto them.
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Cyprus Black
Caldari
4 wing
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.08.03 16:55:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Viper FW
OK I know its allowed by CCP but I think if your running missions in 0.7+ security that someone should NOT be allowed to come in and steal your salvage and if they do then you should be at least able to shoot at them with out getting concord sicked on you. If you pod them then its should make you go global but if you just attack them or destroy there ship after they take your salvage then it should be ok.
This is how i think it should be.
If someone takes your salvage or loot in 0.7+ sec space, then they don't get attacked by concord
but you can attack them with out going global as long as you are in the mission area and you don't pod them.
/facepalm
You don't own the salvagable wrecks. Nobody does. They're first come first serve. Stop whining about something you don't own.
______________
Stupid people are amazingly clever at being stupid. They interpret the phrase "idiot proof" as some sort of challenge. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.03 16:59:00 -
[60]
Quote:
The problem that a lot of new players who decide to do ninja salvaging is that the 10m per hour doesn't improve over time. As a miner skilltrains more, he'll eventually get into a Hulk, t2 strips, t2 crystals, exhumers 5, etc. etc. and earn more isk especially in a gang. Missioners will eventually train their way up to being able to run L4's, t2 weapons, social skills, etc., so their isk/hour is always increasing as they train more skills. Once the ninja salvager trains salvaging 5, there's really not much else he can do to improve his isk/hour.
On the contrary...scanning/salvaging skills make you quite a bit more efficient, especially Salvager IIs. Also, you can train up for a gank ship to protect you while you loot (which vastly increases ISK gain).
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Xianbei
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:14:00 -
[61]
again ?
eve does not provide free rides unless you buy GTC
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Nouva MacGyver
Caldari
MacGyver Communications
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:31:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Furb Killer
it is obvious that the isk they make with it is a sad ammount, that is just a fact.
Sad amount in relation to what? In turn, a fact by taking into account what? You make the mistake of presumably (see? IÆm trying to be honest, IÆm assuming here) comparing isk/time of ninja salvaging to an activity with higher isk/time ratio. I ninja salvage, I think I make excellent ISK out of it without considering ISK/hour, thus I say otherwise. Thus your ôfactö is a personal opinion and experience. Read on.
Quote:
So if they dont do it for the isk, why do you think they do it?
Oh yes, if I donÆt make more ISK/hour doing ninja salvaging than doing [insert activity that gives out more ISK/hour here], I absolutely, surely, without a doubt, MUST be doing it to give someone else a bad day right?
Quote:
If they would do it for the isk, why dont they just ask in local if they may salvage someones mission?
Why should ISK gain be related to X number of times you ask to salvage someoneÆs mission? So now if someone doesnÆt ask and continues to work to scan down a mission site to salvage they are not doing it for the isk? Perchance there may be a corp that has exercised this avenue (of asking) and found it far better to organise a good number of people together in different roles and maximise their efficiency?
Quote:
Not needing to scan it out + knowing before hand which mission it is + being able to tractor makes it alot more profitable.
Again, the fallacious assumption that the enjoyment of EVE has to be tied into a formula with ISK/hour on it. Or perhaps this is a fixation with doing the least amount of work with least amount of risk for most amount of ISK and centering everything about EVE onto this concept?
Quote:
and when a ninja salvager comes in for sure they will stop doing it
IÆve ninja salvaged a mission runner before, looted the wrecks even, and he didnÆt stop to continue making more wrecks. He doesnÆt even attempt to lock me. I guess we can throw ôfor sureö out of the argument now?
Quote:
and you cant tractor beam
Note: Tractors are not the be all end all to salvaging faster. Why? Consider a ninja salvager with a faster ship, better levels in salvaging skill, and in the case of everything else possibly being equal, his/her better chances at having that salvage in his/her hold first.
Quote:
it is reasonably safe to assume you make less isk salvaging than when i salvage myself, which i do with a dessie with 8 salvagers from a wreck ball.
The ninja salvager does not gain ôless ISKö, he simply gains ISK. The moment he gets a salvage into his hold from the mess you made heÆs already in the green. The comparison is irrelevant anyhow as salvage is an added "bonus", apart from the millions you already make off bounties and mission rewards.
Quote:
Even then the fast majority of the missions dont give more isk/hour salvaging than mission running. So there is no way a ninja salvager makes more than he would when he does missions in a well fitted raven.
Stop relating ninja salvaging to the (broken) ISK profitability of L4 missions, and stop relating ninja salvaging to the choice of it being strictly about maximised ISK or if not then it's griefing.
One may actually enjoy it, and is doing the (actually bothering to think) mission runners a service by offering YOU the opportunity to exercise varied strategems to outwit, outclass or outplay them.
Now, back to OP: Working as intended. Not supported.
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Mr Sean
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Posted - 2009.08.03 19:28:00 -
[63]
(adds OP to his address book so he can track him down and ninja more of his missions)
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.03 20:03:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 03/08/2009 20:06:14
Edited by: Furb Killer on 03/08/2009 20:04:23
Quote:
If it's such a sad amount of ISK, why do so many people care that they swoop in and take it?
I wonder the same.
Quote:
Why should ISK gain be related to X number of times you ask to salvage someoneÆs mission? So now if someone doesnÆt ask and continues to work to scan down a mission site to salvage they are not doing it for the isk? Perchance there may be a corp that has exercised this avenue (of asking) and found it far better to organise a good number of people together in different roles and maximise their efficiency?
I have no idea what you are trying to say, since it gave me a headache when i tried to read it. However just try to explain me again, if you do it purely for the isk+fun which is not related to griefing, why scan for a mission runner when you can also ask one to fleet you + have the bonus of being able to use tractor beams.
Quote:
IÆve ninja salvaged a mission runner before, looted the wrecks even, and he didnÆt stop to continue making more wrecks. He doesnÆt even attempt to lock me. I guess we can throw ôfor sureö out of the argument now?
Go go selective quoting taking it completely out of its context. Did he continue making a wreckBALL? Because that was what it was about, wreckBALLS, not wrecks. Of course i also just continue if a ninja salvager is in the mission.
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Constable Chang
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.08.03 21:03:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Constable Chang on 03/08/2009 21:07:05
I'm a 'ninja' salvager. I'm not a thief. I'm not a griefer.
I don't abuse the mission runners when I'm salvaging a live mission. I respect the mission runner and their right to the loot.
Some ninja salvagers mock and intimidate the mission runner, they get pleasure from hurting the fun of others. They try to get the mission runner into PvP combat. They steal the loot.
I was once a member of Suddenly Ninjas but left after it became apparent that they were far too belligerent for my liking.
Ninja salvagers need to remember that we need the mission runners.
Mission runners generate wrecks.
Wrecks generate salvage.
Salvage generates rigs.
Rigs benefit everyone.
And there are many missions that would not be salvaged otherwise.
The scanning is a lot of fun, I'd rather do that than ask to be invited to a mission site.
I've considered offering my services for supporting mission runners, using Ewar or remote repping. Maybe that could work out too.
I just can't stand running missions myself, or mining.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.03 22:23:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 03/08/2009 22:26:27
Quote:
Some ninja salvagers mock and intimidate the mission runner, they get pleasure from hurting the fun of others. They try to get the mission runner into PvP combat. They steal the loot.
It depends, really. The mocking generally doesn't occur until they make idiots out of themselves by getting angry over lost space money in a PVP game.
but Chang raises a point people often miss; there's absolutely nothing wrong with the act of salvaging. There are "passive" ninja salvagers who are basically miners that mine wrecks instead of asteroids and fly frigates instead of barges. It's just that we are amused by people getting angry over something so trivial and part of the game, so we do our best to stir it up whenever possible.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.08.03 22:26:00 -
[67]
haha you said "salvage theft" noob
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Chantilly Layce
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Posted - 2009.08.04 02:15:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Viper FW
... steal your salvage
If you knew how the game worked... you'd have so much more fun. Back to WoW for you.
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Cipher7
No Limit Productions
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Posted - 2009.08.04 02:21:00 -
[69]
First off the attitude. I hate the entitlement attitude that most mish runners seem to have, that they should be able to run L4's in hisec and never ever have any inconvenience of any kind. I loathe that mindset. As far as I'm concerned people like you slipped thru the darwin filter and don't belong in Eve.
Secondly Eve is an ECOSYSTEM of entities FEEDING on each other. You feed on rats, someone feeds on your wrecks, traders feed on sellers, it's one big CIRCLE of people drinking from each other's CUP.
Where the hell do you get off saying someone shouldn't be able to feed off you? Go die in a fire. This is not a single-player game bub, yes occaisionally someone will loot/salvage the wrecks you killed and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
The "my kills my loot" thing is a WoW carebear mindset and you people need to get OVER it.
If someone scans down your mission, just keep blitzing it, eat the tasty rat bounties, finish the mission, and go to the next one. BM the wrecks you leave behind, every 1.5 hours jump in your salvager, and fly around to your BM's, if the wrecks are gone so what, move on to the next BM, and eventually fly back and work on the next mission.
Often I don't even salvage my wrecks, I've found it's almost the same income if you loot/salvage or not, mainly I salvage for variety when I get tired of missioning.
And yes I also ninja salvage in addition to running missions.
I drink from someone else's cup, someone else drinks from mine.
That's how you deal with the concept of ninja salvaging. Not sit there like a chode and cry "buhu he took my wreck."
Eve is built around the concept that sometimes LOSSES will happen to you, and it will be nonconsentual, the point being stop judging your play experience by the wallet numbers going up. That's not what the game is about and you damn well know it.
Honestly how many of the wrecks you made have been salvaged by someone else? %5?
So CCP should just get rid of an entire profession so you get %5 more loot?
You ****ers. Cry more.
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Iria Ahrens
Amarr
101st Space Marine Force
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.08.04 02:56:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 04/08/2009 03:00:24
Originally by: Syrian Mettle
Originally by: Iria Ahrens
If you don't want others salvaging your mission loot, fit a salvager on your ship and salvage it first.
Or better yet, ask for someone in local to salvage for you and split the salvage item. You keep them alive and the rats off them and you get at least part of the salvage.
A dedicated salvager will be able to clean up most of the stuff before ninja salvagers could arrive on scene in the appropraite ship and take the stuff, it's a team game you know.
Not that I disagree with you in any way, I just want to say that there is a difference in attitude between those that figure out ways to solve their own problems, and those that go whining for others to solve their problems.
There are several different ways to avoid ninja salvagers, at least 3 have been mentioned on this thread. The problem isn't the ninja salvagers, it's the ones whining for someone else to solve their problems.
EVE is not a game for people that want stuff handed to them. You have to take it for yourself and defend from all the others trying to take it from you, and if all your resources are stolen from your hanger because you gave someone access, CCP will pat you on the head and say, "use better discretion next time."
--
Nobody expects the Amarr Inquisition!
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Willy Pete
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.08.04 04:30:00 -
[71]
Quote:
it is obvious that the isk they make with it is a sad ammount, that is just a fact. So if they dont do it for the isk, why do you think they do it?
Eh? I interact with many, many ninja salvagers on a daily basis (both in my corp and outside) and a huge amount of them started because it was great money (If you do it correctly, of course).
Quote:
Seeing as that most mission runners wont be making a wreck ball, and when a ninja salvager comes in for sure they will stop doing it, and you cant tractor beam, and you got to scan the mission out, and enough of them will be crappy missions which you wasted time scanning, it is reasonably safe to assume you make less isk salvaging than when i salvage myself, which i do with a dessie with 8 salvagers from a wreck bal
Scanning out a missionrunner takes...what, ~2 minutes? If that? A 'good mission' for a ninjasalvager is any one that has an appreciable amount of large/medium wrecks of a good faction. Tractor beams are great for being lazy, but they're not actually as efficient as you'd think unless the wrecks are, beforehand, pulled together...and even then, a ninja can focus his ISK/time towards training Salvaging (t2 salvagers + salvage tackles) whereas a missioner primarily focuses on fitting his ship..so, on average, a ninja will be far superior at salvaging than any missionrunner.
Can you make as much as a good level 4 runner? No, because hisec missions are massively overpowered. But that's pretty much irrelevant. The act of salvaging is fun, it provides -enough- income...and yes, hearing people cry about lost spacemoniesÖ that wasn't theirs in the first place is also a big plus.
This. Over the last 6 months I've made close to a billion playing on a computer that barely plays Eve, very part time due to RL issues, (of course getting a MR concorded helps), and I've never had so much fun. It's a cat and mouse game. Tears are fun and MR pinatas are the best of all.
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Willy Pete
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.08.04 04:38:00 -
[72]
As to the efficacy of tractors -
Sit at 0 distance to a MR and salvage his wrecks as he tractors them in. Why do I need tractors?
Oh, and I make it a point of never smacking. Why insult the goose who lays the golden . . . er. . . wrecks?
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Havohej
Minmatar
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.04 04:57:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Furb Killer
And not because i feel sorry for the ninja salvagers, because lets be clear, they just do it to grief and not to make isk.
srsly?
Do you even know how much salvage/rigs are worth?
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Davos Mal
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.04 05:18:00 -
[74]
Why would you want to remove salvaging as a profession? If I'm missioning and someone comes in to salvage my wrecks, I shoot each wreck as he arrives at it, just to annoy him. On the other hand, I find it greatly enjoyable to scan down someone in a mission and start salvaging his wrecks. The angry mails I get are more fun than the salvage, TBH.
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Gallent Stonewill
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Posted - 2009.08.04 05:29:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Constable Chang
Edited by: Constable Chang on 03/08/2009 21:07:05
I'm a 'ninja' salvager. I'm not a thief. I'm not a griefer.
I don't abuse the mission runners when I'm salvaging a live mission. I respect the mission runner and their right to the loot.
Some ninja salvagers mock and intimidate the mission runner, they get pleasure from hurting the fun of others. They try to get the mission runner into PvP combat. They steal the loot.
I was once a member of Suddenly Ninjas but left after it became apparent that they were far too belligerent for my liking.
Ninja salvagers need to remember that we need the mission runners.
Mission runners generate wrecks.
Wrecks generate salvage.
Salvage generates rigs.
Rigs benefit everyone.
And there are many missions that would not be salvaged otherwise.
The scanning is a lot of fun, I'd rather do that than ask to be invited to a mission site.
I've considered offering my services for supporting mission runners, using Ewar or remote repping. Maybe that could work out too.
I just can't stand running missions myself, or mining.
I would prefer to be able to keep both the loot and the salvage but if someone is going to ninja the mission I'm on I rather it be someone like you who will let me keep the loot and hopefully the mission item as well.
I also accept that the salvage belongs to the first person who gets to it and it's not "theft" for some else to take salvage from a wreak I created but swiping the loot is since the person gets flagged for doing so. I just started salvaging my mission wreaks and seeing the prices for the stuff I pull out I can see why people spend the time looking for them. What I don't really understand is why swipe the loot and the mission item other then to grief.leave the runner the loot and item at least so they can get what ever cash from that and be able to finish the job,that might cut down on these kinds of thread.
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Havohej
Minmatar
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.08.04 05:35:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Havohej on 04/08/2009 05:36:47
I just think it's awesome when people make characters in video games with these really edgy, tough, aggressive-sounding names like "skullmaster deathscythe" and "killugood" and "VIPER" and then post common carebear whines.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 06:07:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Havohej
Edited by: Havohej on 04/08/2009 05:36:47
I just think it's awesome when people make characters in video games with these really edgy, tough, aggressive-sounding names like "skullmaster deathscythe" and "killugood" and "VIPER" and then post common carebear whines.
It's a commonly remarked phenomenon. Also, check out titles if they're in a corp; the more grandiose & pretentious the title, the more likely they've never shot at anyone more dangerous than Rachen Mysuna.
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Iria Ahrens
Amarr
101st Space Marine Force
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.08.04 06:08:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Havohej
Edited by: Havohej on 04/08/2009 05:36:47
I just think it's awesome when people make characters in video games with these really edgy, tough, aggressive-sounding names like "skullmaster deathscythe" and "killugood" and "VIPER" and then post common carebear whines.
ROFL!
My name is Deathdealer Doomslayer, why is everyone always picking on me?
--
Nobody expects the Amarr Inquisition!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 06:15:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Iria Ahrens
Originally by: Havohej
Edited by: Havohej on 04/08/2009 05:36:47
I just think it's awesome when people make characters in video games with these really edgy, tough, aggressive-sounding names like "skullmaster deathscythe" and "killugood" and "VIPER" and then post common carebear whines.
ROFL!
My name is Deathdealer Doomslayer, why is everyone always picking on me?
That's High Star Admiral Deathdealer Doomslay to you, mister!
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Cyprus Black
Caldari
4 wing
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.08.04 07:02:00 -
[80]
There's no such thing as salvage theft.
/thread
______________
Stupid people are amazingly clever at being stupid. They interpret the phrase "idiot proof" as some sort of challenge. |
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.04 07:14:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Furb Killer
And not because i feel sorry for the ninja salvagers, because lets be clear, they just do it to grief and not to make isk.
srsly?
Do you even know how much salvage/rigs are worth?
When i make a wreckball it is in general less than when i run the mission. Now sure in a marauder i do them quite fast, but then you add up the no tractor, need to scan out, no nice wreckballs, etc, it will also be less than a raven will make missioning.
Then you can say you like salvaging better, but in that case again, why not just ask in local
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Nouva MacGyver
Caldari
MacGyver Communications
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Posted - 2009.08.04 07:59:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Edit:
Instead of another round of (selective) quoting, why not just answer the simple question:
Why scan out random mission runners when you can also ask in local if someone is okay with it if you come to his mission to salvage? (If no one is okay with it you can still scan for them).
If I'm purportedly guilty of selective quoting, then you are assumably doing a very good job of selecting reading and comprehension. From an earlier post:
Originally by: Nouva MacGyver
Perchance there may be a corp that has exercised this avenue (of asking) and found it far better to organise a good number of people together in different roles and maximise their efficiency?
So, the real question should be, why NOT? Why not carry on scanning and salvaging as you please when it can potentially make you more ISK as opposed to waiting on a mission runner to give his go ahead to a space and wrecks which he does not even have ownership over? Why not when it can, prior to salvaging the wrecks be used as a practice session to hone one's familiarity with the scanning process? Why not carry on doing it if it is a CCP sanctioned activity, labelled a mini-profession, and is enjoyable enough to the individual above the act of typing and/or begging to get into someone's missions?
TL;D(F)R: Because we can, it is allowed, and there is ISK to be made.
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.08.04 08:28:00 -
[83]
It is more efficient in the long run (Marauders may be the exception) to just steamroll missions and hand in, rinse/repeat. Salvaging takes too long for the bonus isk, If someone with enough skills to scan me out does so, and can make more isk/hour ninja salvaging than i can switching between missions and salvaging then i'll leave them to it. Chances are i'll do 2-3 missions in the time it takes to salvage one, and as it stands the lack of ability to filter wrecks by size means sorting whats worth it from whats not is extra hassle i dont need.
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Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.08.04 08:33:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Blane Xero
...the lack of ability to filter wrecks by size....
You can. Just show the type column on the overview and it tells you what size wreck the wreck is.
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For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (Now with added summary!) |
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.08.04 08:48:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Bibbleibble
Originally by: Blane Xero
...the lack of ability to filter wrecks by size....
You can. Just show the type column on the overview and it tells you what size wreck the wreck is.
Sorry, i meant as in remove small ones completely from the overview. Bad word choice 
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Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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Xikuan
Minmatar
New Furia
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Posted - 2009.08.04 08:54:00 -
[86]
Dear Losers,
Please stop whining about ninja salvagers.
Your tears are fuel for the ninja salvaging clone producer.
Play the fraking game to have fun instead of the ridiculous notion that maximum ISK/Hour = How your suppose to play a VIDEO GAME!!!!
Signed
All PvE EVE players who are not morons.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2009.08.04 08:59:00 -
[87]
They're not allowed to steal your salvage. If they take it out of a jetcan, they're flagged and there's no way they can steal it out of your cargohold or hangar, so they can't really steal salvage.
Your problem is that you seem to think other people salvaging wrecks that you consider "yours" to be theft, but it's not, any more than mining asteroids in a belt you're in is stealing ore.
Salvage is not yours until it's in your cargo hold.
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Lord Wamphyri
Amarr
Starside Lost
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Posted - 2009.08.04 09:35:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Lord Wamphyri on 04/08/2009 09:35:49
I remember the days when you could take ore/loot from someones can without flagging. Instead of adapting and using secure containers for ore etc the whiners did their thing and criminal flagging got introduced - finally the 'victims' could exact retribution on the theives.. except it didn't quite work out that way did it?
Research a bit of EVE history, and hopefully you'll figure out that you really are better off with the way salvaging works now.
My EVE Tattoo!
My Second EVE Tattoo! |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.08.04 09:51:00 -
[89]
How much do you actually make from ninja salvaging per hour? Of course the tears are priceless but you can't use it as ingame currency unfortunately.
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.04 09:58:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Mr Sean
(adds OP to his address book so he can track him down and ninja more of his missions)
do it for the lulz also post some proof and i send you ISK's
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
EvE FTW |
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Giggidy Gank
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Posted - 2009.08.04 10:10:00 -
[91]
Protip to OP: There are already areas where you can defend your mission wrecks from salvagers without Concord interference. Those areas are lowsec and 0.0
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Galvatine
Caldari
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:11:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Galvatine on 04/08/2009 12:13:47
Wrecks belong to no-one. This issue has been raised thousands of times, CCPs response has not changed. You should stop foolishly thinking that if you cry enough about it, that something will be done.
The end.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:52:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Willy Pete
As to the efficacy of tractors -
Sit at 0 distance to a MR and salvage his wrecks as he tractors them in. Why do I need tractors?
Are they really that stupid?! 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:54:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Willy Pete
As to the efficacy of tractors -
Sit at 0 distance to a MR and salvage his wrecks as he tractors them in. Why do I need tractors?
Are they really that stupid?!
Some of them actually are.
Read the OP, and then think about it.
________________________________________________
For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (Now with added summary!) |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:08:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Bibbleibble
Some of them actually are.
Read the OP, and then think about it.
Well… I suppose that would explain why they think ninja salvaging is effortless: they willingly feed the salvager with all the wrecks he wants, rather than force him to work for them… 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:22:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Galvatine
You should stop foolishly thinking that if you cry enough about it, that something will be done that will make you happy.
fyp
CCP have a way of granting whine-nauts with what they asked for in a way that they like even less than the status quo ante...
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Decarus
Amarr
The R.I.T.U.A.L Corp
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:27:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Malcanis
CCP have a way of granting whine-nauts with what they asked for in a way that they like even less than the status quo ante...
THEY DO NOT!!
... wait...
... they do.
Wtf man! Last time I alluded to that in the last salvage ninja thread you tore into me for not being as smart as my mom says. 
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Galvatine
Caldari
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:29:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Galvatine
You should stop foolishly thinking that if you cry enough about it, that something will be done that will make you happy.
fyp
CCP have a way of granting whine-nauts with what they asked for in a way that they like even less than the status quo ante...
With flags....pretttttty please 
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:32:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Decarus
Originally by: Malcanis
CCP have a way of granting whine-nauts with what they asked for in a way that they like even less than the status quo ante...
THEY DO NOT!!
... wait...
... they do.
Wtf man! Last time I alluded to that in the last salvage ninja thread you tore into me for not being as smart as my mom says.
Yeah well she talks about you a lot. I guess she's pretty proud of you.
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Decarus
Amarr
The R.I.T.U.A.L Corp
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:34:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Malcanis
Yeah well she talks about you a lot. I guess she's pretty proud of you.
Well.. I guess that's nice to know. 
I'm assuming you're in the Medium business then?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:40:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Malcanis on 04/08/2009 13:41:17
Originally by: Galvatine
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Galvatine
You should stop foolishly thinking that if you cry enough about it, that something will be done that will make you happy.
fyp
CCP have a way of granting whine-nauts with what they asked for in a way that they like even less than the status quo ante...
With flags....pretttttty please
Well I dont think they'll get flagging - CCP have been rpetty adamant that salvage is free for all, but what the complainers have been asking for is the right to shoot at the salvager. The simplest way to enact while not making salvage flaggable this is to make mission deadspaces lo-sec. That would be a fine example of giving the what they asked for but not what they wanted, dont you think? It would also simultaneously satisfy the "move level 4s to lo-sec" and the "keep level 4s in hi-sec" crowds.
I say lo-sec rather than 0.0 as this has some interesting secondary consequences, not least that any aggressor will have to stay in the deadspace until the global criminal timer expires.
And of course it will lend an element of risk suitable to the reward. People who just want to do missions for standings can safely do hi-sec courier missions.
Personally I'd say it would also make missioning much more fun. Of course it would have to go hand in hand with a reform of the way missions are structured but that's a change that's been overdue for years anyway.
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Sub 7
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:50:00 -
[102]
Quote:
Well I dont think they'll get flagging - CCP have been rpetty adamant that salvage is free for all, but what the complainers have been asking for is the right to shoot at the salvager. The simplest way to enact while not making salvage flaggable this is to make mission deadspaces lo-sec. That would be a fine example of giving the what they asked for but not what they wanted, dont you think? It would also simultaneously satisfy the "move level 4s to lo-sec" and the "keep level 4s in hi-sec" crowds.
I say lo-sec rather than 0.0 as this has some interesting secondary consequences, not least that any aggressor will have to stay in the deadspace until the global criminal timer expires.
And of course it will lend an element of risk suitable to the reward. People who just want to do missions for standings can safely do hi-sec courier missions.
Personally I'd say it would also make missioning much more fun. Of course it would have to go hand in hand with a reform of the way missions are structured but that's a change that's been overdue for years anyway.
I fully endorse this. More stuff to salvage with the added bonus you get to shoot the mission runner at the end!
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Waci
Southern Cross Empire
Flying Dangerous
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:57:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
How much do you actually make from ninja salvaging per hour? Of course the tears are priceless but you can't use it as ingame currency unfortunately.
Something like 10 or 20 mil depending on missions, plus any lucky finds of meta 4 mods and the like. Sure, running level 4s in a marauder is better for isk, but it also takes a year to train for (versus the week or so it takes for salvaging and probing skills) and a marauder costs a bil+ fittings, a salvage boat starts at half a mil including fittings.
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SCE |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.04 14:36:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Waci
Sure, running level 4s in a marauder is better for isk, but it also takes a year to train for (versus the week or so it takes for salvaging and probing skills) and a marauder costs a bil+ fittings, a salvage boat starts at half a mil including fittings.
…and is also completely free of competition. Until missions are made competetive, MRs can't really complain that other professions provide great returns for little training and/or investment (relative to their own), because those returns have to be fought for and earned in a PvP environment.
(Never mind the fact that the training that goes into running missions serves multiple purposes, making it a thoroughly flawed metric to use to justify anything.)
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Salliene
Gallente
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.08.04 14:41:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
How much do you actually make from ninja salvaging per hour? Of course the tears are priceless but you can't use it as ingame currency unfortunately.
I imagine most ninja-salvagers would have a problem answering this question because we do not measure such a thing. I don't login and look to maximize my income, I login to have fun. Sometimes that fun makes money, sometimes it doesn't.
Here is all the anecdotal evidence I can provide you:
I have been in Suddenly Ninjas actively salvaging for about 20 days now (I came back to the game cause of the 5 day thingy). I went to Dodixie with nothing but an Incursus and 237 million ISK in my wallet.
As of right now I am just shy of 400 million in my wallet, 163 million more than I "started" with. I have also purchased a Dominix for stealing mission bounties (about 60 million after fittings), a Stealth Bomber (about 30 million after fittings and whatnot), some implants and some skill books, salvagers, etc.
I play on average 2 hours a night, and I don't salvage every night. I do what I want to do, which has included actually HELPING mission runners on occasion when they are struggling, exploring wormholes, or just sitting in chat shooting the sh*t in Dixie local.
So I can't tell you how much I make per hour. I can tell you that for my play style I make more money than I need as evidenced by my wallet growing rather than shrinking. I am not one to care about having big shiny ships, so I don't have to "save up" for anything. Nothing that I fly or ever have intentions of flying will ever cost me more than 60 million.
A lot of people are going to look at these figures and LOL cause they can't imagine playing EVE for 2+ weeks and only making about 200 million in profit. That's fine cause I look at them poring over eve-survival and calculating their isk/hour and isk/minute and LOL right back at them.
I don't consider ISK to be the "score" of EVE.
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wickedpheonix
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:00:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Salliene
I don't consider ISK to be the "score" of EVE.
That's not the point. Although there will be a few, a good many missioners don't mission because they like missioning but because they either a) need money or b) need standings. Especially for PVP players where a lot of the combat skills they've already trained apply well to missions, stuff like ISK/hour is important because that's what they're doing the missions for in the first place.
But like I said earlier, if you can't deal with ninja salvagers, you don't deserve the salvage in your missions.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:09:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Salliene
I imagine most ninja-salvagers would have a problem answering this question because we do not measure such a thing. I don't login and look to maximize my income, I login to have fun. Sometimes that fun makes money, sometimes it doesn't.
GThanks, guess I should have some fun with my maxed out prober char shortly then.
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Karentaki
Gallente
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:13:00 -
[108]
Cool thread, I'll add it to the stack.
...
Stack overflow error. Stack exceeded 65535 threads.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:31:00 -
[109]
tbh. i am getting so sick of these topics that you know what i say ?
**** YHER, let salvaging there stuff flagg me. you know what would happen? people would just start salvaging in Gangs of PvP fit ships and your golom would go pop in about 10- seconds flat.
give it to them, and then watch them cry to make it go away.
Dark Materials |
Douglas Stroud
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Posted - 2009.08.04 17:10:00 -
[110]
sage
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Durkuh Durka
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.04 20:01:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
The problem that a lot of new players who decide to do ninja salvaging is that the 10m per hour doesn't improve over time. As a miner skilltrains more, he'll eventually get into a Hulk, t2 strips, t2 crystals, exhumers 5, etc. etc. and earn more isk especially in a gang. Missioners will eventually train their way up to being able to run L4's, t2 weapons, social skills, etc., so their isk/hour is always increasing as they train more skills. Once the ninja salvager trains salvaging 5, there's really not much else he can do to improve his isk/hour.
On the contrary...scanning/salvaging skills make you quite a bit more efficient, especially Salvager IIs. Also, you can train up for a gank ship to protect you while you loot (which vastly increases ISK gain).
Not to mention the probing skills are, by themselves, worth some coin if a pilot wants to market that skill-set to other corps.
I don't ninja much but I do look for abandoned probes (there are tons of them floating around). I've blundered into a couple of missions looking for drones and ended up salvaging wrecks after determining they've been abandoned or salvaging active missions when the mission runner was immediately a douche to me for ending up there. I have to say, the money was pretty good.
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