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Giggidy Gank
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Posted - 2009.08.04 10:10:00 -
[91]
Protip to OP: There are already areas where you can defend your mission wrecks from salvagers without Concord interference. Those areas are lowsec and 0.0
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Galvatine
Caldari
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:11:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Galvatine on 04/08/2009 12:13:47
Wrecks belong to no-one. This issue has been raised thousands of times, CCPs response has not changed. You should stop foolishly thinking that if you cry enough about it, that something will be done.
The end.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:52:00 -
[93]
 Originally by: Willy Pete
As to the efficacy of tractors - 
Sit at 0 distance to a MR and salvage his wrecks as he tractors them in. Why do I need tractors?
Are they really that stupid?! 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:54:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Willy Pete
As to the efficacy of tractors -
Sit at 0 distance to a MR and salvage his wrecks as he tractors them in. Why do I need tractors?
Are they really that stupid?!
Some of them actually are.
Read the OP, and then think about it.
________________________________________________
For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (Now with added summary!) |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:08:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Bibbleibble
Some of them actually are.
Read the OP, and then think about it.
Well… I suppose that would explain why they think ninja salvaging is effortless: they willingly feed the salvager with all the wrecks he wants, rather than force him to work for them… 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:22:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Galvatine
You should stop foolishly thinking that if you cry enough about it, that something will be done that will make you happy.
fyp
CCP have a way of granting whine-nauts with what they asked for in a way that they like even less than the status quo ante...
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Decarus
Amarr
The R.I.T.U.A.L Corp
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:27:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Malcanis
CCP have a way of granting whine-nauts with what they asked for in a way that they like even less than the status quo ante...
THEY DO NOT!!
... wait...
... they do.
Wtf man! Last time I alluded to that in the last salvage ninja thread you tore into me for not being as smart as my mom says. 
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Galvatine
Caldari
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:29:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Galvatine
You should stop foolishly thinking that if you cry enough about it, that something will be done that will make you happy.
fyp
CCP have a way of granting whine-nauts with what they asked for in a way that they like even less than the status quo ante...
With flags....pretttttty please 
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:32:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Decarus
Originally by: Malcanis
CCP have a way of granting whine-nauts with what they asked for in a way that they like even less than the status quo ante...
THEY DO NOT!!
... wait...
... they do.
Wtf man! Last time I alluded to that in the last salvage ninja thread you tore into me for not being as smart as my mom says.
Yeah well she talks about you a lot. I guess she's pretty proud of you.
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Decarus
Amarr
The R.I.T.U.A.L Corp
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:34:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Malcanis
Yeah well she talks about you a lot. I guess she's pretty proud of you.
Well.. I guess that's nice to know. 
I'm assuming you're in the Medium business then?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:40:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Malcanis on 04/08/2009 13:41:17
Originally by: Galvatine
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Galvatine
You should stop foolishly thinking that if you cry enough about it, that something will be done that will make you happy.
fyp
CCP have a way of granting whine-nauts with what they asked for in a way that they like even less than the status quo ante...
With flags....pretttttty please
Well I dont think they'll get flagging - CCP have been rpetty adamant that salvage is free for all, but what the complainers have been asking for is the right to shoot at the salvager. The simplest way to enact while not making salvage flaggable this is to make mission deadspaces lo-sec. That would be a fine example of giving the what they asked for but not what they wanted, dont you think? It would also simultaneously satisfy the "move level 4s to lo-sec" and the "keep level 4s in hi-sec" crowds.
I say lo-sec rather than 0.0 as this has some interesting secondary consequences, not least that any aggressor will have to stay in the deadspace until the global criminal timer expires.
And of course it will lend an element of risk suitable to the reward. People who just want to do missions for standings can safely do hi-sec courier missions.
Personally I'd say it would also make missioning much more fun. Of course it would have to go hand in hand with a reform of the way missions are structured but that's a change that's been overdue for years anyway.
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Sub 7
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:50:00 -
[102]
Quote:
Well I dont think they'll get flagging - CCP have been rpetty adamant that salvage is free for all, but what the complainers have been asking for is the right to shoot at the salvager. The simplest way to enact while not making salvage flaggable this is to make mission deadspaces lo-sec. That would be a fine example of giving the what they asked for but not what they wanted, dont you think? It would also simultaneously satisfy the "move level 4s to lo-sec" and the "keep level 4s in hi-sec" crowds.
I say lo-sec rather than 0.0 as this has some interesting secondary consequences, not least that any aggressor will have to stay in the deadspace until the global criminal timer expires.
And of course it will lend an element of risk suitable to the reward. People who just want to do missions for standings can safely do hi-sec courier missions.
Personally I'd say it would also make missioning much more fun. Of course it would have to go hand in hand with a reform of the way missions are structured but that's a change that's been overdue for years anyway.
I fully endorse this. More stuff to salvage with the added bonus you get to shoot the mission runner at the end!
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Waci
Southern Cross Empire
Flying Dangerous
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:57:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
How much do you actually make from ninja salvaging per hour? Of course the tears are priceless but you can't use it as ingame currency unfortunately.
Something like 10 or 20 mil depending on missions, plus any lucky finds of meta 4 mods and the like. Sure, running level 4s in a marauder is better for isk, but it also takes a year to train for (versus the week or so it takes for salvaging and probing skills) and a marauder costs a bil+ fittings, a salvage boat starts at half a mil including fittings.
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SCE |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.04 14:36:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Waci
Sure, running level 4s in a marauder is better for isk, but it also takes a year to train for (versus the week or so it takes for salvaging and probing skills) and a marauder costs a bil+ fittings, a salvage boat starts at half a mil including fittings.
…and is also completely free of competition. Until missions are made competetive, MRs can't really complain that other professions provide great returns for little training and/or investment (relative to their own), because those returns have to be fought for and earned in a PvP environment.
(Never mind the fact that the training that goes into running missions serves multiple purposes, making it a thoroughly flawed metric to use to justify anything.)
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Salliene
Gallente
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.08.04 14:41:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
How much do you actually make from ninja salvaging per hour? Of course the tears are priceless but you can't use it as ingame currency unfortunately.
I imagine most ninja-salvagers would have a problem answering this question because we do not measure such a thing. I don't login and look to maximize my income, I login to have fun. Sometimes that fun makes money, sometimes it doesn't.
Here is all the anecdotal evidence I can provide you:
I have been in Suddenly Ninjas actively salvaging for about 20 days now (I came back to the game cause of the 5 day thingy). I went to Dodixie with nothing but an Incursus and 237 million ISK in my wallet.
As of right now I am just shy of 400 million in my wallet, 163 million more than I "started" with. I have also purchased a Dominix for stealing mission bounties (about 60 million after fittings), a Stealth Bomber (about 30 million after fittings and whatnot), some implants and some skill books, salvagers, etc.
I play on average 2 hours a night, and I don't salvage every night. I do what I want to do, which has included actually HELPING mission runners on occasion when they are struggling, exploring wormholes, or just sitting in chat shooting the sh*t in Dixie local.
So I can't tell you how much I make per hour. I can tell you that for my play style I make more money than I need as evidenced by my wallet growing rather than shrinking. I am not one to care about having big shiny ships, so I don't have to "save up" for anything. Nothing that I fly or ever have intentions of flying will ever cost me more than 60 million.
A lot of people are going to look at these figures and LOL cause they can't imagine playing EVE for 2+ weeks and only making about 200 million in profit. That's fine cause I look at them poring over eve-survival and calculating their isk/hour and isk/minute and LOL right back at them.
I don't consider ISK to be the "score" of EVE.
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wickedpheonix
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:00:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Salliene
I don't consider ISK to be the "score" of EVE.
That's not the point. Although there will be a few, a good many missioners don't mission because they like missioning but because they either a) need money or b) need standings. Especially for PVP players where a lot of the combat skills they've already trained apply well to missions, stuff like ISK/hour is important because that's what they're doing the missions for in the first place.
But like I said earlier, if you can't deal with ninja salvagers, you don't deserve the salvage in your missions.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:09:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Salliene
I imagine most ninja-salvagers would have a problem answering this question because we do not measure such a thing. I don't login and look to maximize my income, I login to have fun. Sometimes that fun makes money, sometimes it doesn't.
GThanks, guess I should have some fun with my maxed out prober char shortly then.
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Karentaki
Gallente
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:13:00 -
[108]
Cool thread, I'll add it to the stack.
...
Stack overflow error. Stack exceeded 65535 threads.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:31:00 -
[109]
tbh. i am getting so sick of these topics that you know what i say ?
**** YHER, let salvaging there stuff flagg me. you know what would happen? people would just start salvaging in Gangs of PvP fit ships and your golom would go pop in about 10- seconds flat.
give it to them, and then watch them cry to make it go away.
Dark Materials |
Douglas Stroud
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Posted - 2009.08.04 17:10:00 -
[110]
sage
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Durkuh Durka
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.04 20:01:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
The problem that a lot of new players who decide to do ninja salvaging is that the 10m per hour doesn't improve over time. As a miner skilltrains more, he'll eventually get into a Hulk, t2 strips, t2 crystals, exhumers 5, etc. etc. and earn more isk especially in a gang. Missioners will eventually train their way up to being able to run L4's, t2 weapons, social skills, etc., so their isk/hour is always increasing as they train more skills. Once the ninja salvager trains salvaging 5, there's really not much else he can do to improve his isk/hour.
On the contrary...scanning/salvaging skills make you quite a bit more efficient, especially Salvager IIs. Also, you can train up for a gank ship to protect you while you loot (which vastly increases ISK gain).
Not to mention the probing skills are, by themselves, worth some coin if a pilot wants to market that skill-set to other corps.
I don't ninja much but I do look for abandoned probes (there are tons of them floating around). I've blundered into a couple of missions looking for drones and ended up salvaging wrecks after determining they've been abandoned or salvaging active missions when the mission runner was immediately a douche to me for ending up there. I have to say, the money was pretty good.
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