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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Zinta Winter
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Posted - 2009.08.04 18:46:00 -
[31]
Jawhol commandant
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Dex Atherton
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Posted - 2009.08.04 22:15:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Dex Atherton on 04/08/2009 22:16:01 Supported.
I mostly rat in low sec because high sec gets too boring too quick. Adding BS spawns to low sec made ratting viable but I know I could make much more isk (without risk) by missioning in high sec.
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S'hara
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Posted - 2009.08.04 23:27:00 -
[33]
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2009.08.05 00:15:00 -
[34]
I agree with the OP's assessment of the situation, but not his solution. Isk is plentiful enough in the game as it is, without simply printing more of it.
/Ben
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Kim Wilde
Covenant
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Posted - 2009.08.05 00:57:00 -
[35]
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MCHammerdad
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Posted - 2009.08.05 02:12:00 -
[36]
Can't believe I'm agreeing with a goon...
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Plutonian
Intransigent
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Posted - 2009.08.05 02:12:00 -
[37]
You're not going to believe this, but some guy who lives in 0.0 and rats to earn isk is on the forums saying that ratting in 0.0 should be buffed.
Can't imagine why he'd be saying such a thing though...
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2009.08.05 06:01:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Gramtar The thing that makes most 0.0 worthless is its "truesec" rating. Outside of pirate sov npc space, truesec determines the maximum value of BS spawns, whether or not officers can spawn, and to my knowledge the frequency of faction spawns. Lower truesec is better. Change how truesec functions and you change the value of lowsec and 0.0 space when it comes to ratting. Here is my proposal for that change, breaking down the values into 5 categories:
1) Lowsec - increase max BS spawn to triple 1.1M bounties. Essentially make all of lowsec roughly equivalent to what you can get in an -0.4 system today, including any related increase in faction and hauler spawns.
2) All of 0.0 - eliminate all spawns that don't have a battleship. Pruning cruiser spawns out of even perfect truesec systems takes hours and it's completely ridiculous.
3) "poor" truesec 0.0 (roughly 0.0 to -0.3) - Increase max value BS spawn to triple 1.4M.
4) "fair" truesec 0.0 (roughly -0.4 to -0.6) - Increase max value BS spawn to triple 1.85. Permit officer spawns. Basically the same as existing "perfect" truesec. Decrease max respawn time of a cleared spawn to 20 minutes (I believe it is currently 30 min or higher).
5) "good" truesec 0.0 (roughly -0.7 to -1.0) - As above and eliminate spawns below 950K. Significantly increase (triple or quadruple) the rate of hauler and faction spawns. Decrease max respawn time from a cleared spawn to 15 minutes.
I suggest increasing the chance of Officer spawns, as well. Since I've seen exactly one Officer in the 3 years I've ratted, it's hard for me to say by how much. I would need information that isn't currently available, specifically how they currently spawn, whether or not it's true they are more common just after downtime (something which should be obviously be changed if accurate), how long they stay up, whether particular officers favor one region over another, what % that spawn are killed, etc.
Support for this.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2009.08.05 06:06:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Gramtar This is one part of the solution. Nominally, macro ratters aka ninja farmers would stand to benefit the most from these changes by themselves. Ideally, players should be able to improve the quality of space they hold. For that reason, I suggest the introduction of two new items:
1) Spacial Vortex Generator - A POS module, anchored at a control tower, that effectively improves the truesec of that system by -0.4 (basically, one level that I've described above). Requires Sov 2. Fitting requirements - 750K grid and 4000 cpu (same as a jump bridge module, requires a large control tower).
2) Spacial Vortex outpost upgrade - A permanent outpost upgrade that gives the system perfect truesec. Cost in NPC goods 2 to 5 billion isk.
In addition to the truesec changes, this would give incentive to hold and improve space. Suddenly, "worthless" regions like Fade might see a population increase.
What alliances stand to gain the most if these changes were made? Pretty much everyone except GoonSwarm. The reason is simple. Most of Delve is broken. You can get triple 1.85M spawns in systems that arenÆt supposed to generate them. You can get Officer spawns in virtually every system, regardless of published truesec. We knew this years before we finally conquered the region, and itÆs a big part of why we arenÆt currently seeking to conquer other space. ItÆs why an alliance of > 5000 that formerly occupied 5 regions, fits comfortably into two. ItÆs also why you donÆt often see Goon ratters in NPC Delve, despite itÆs perfect truesec (as all pirate NPC sov systems enjoy). If Delve were ôfixedö as a result of these changes, I would have no opposition to it.
In my view, all of 0.0 and lowsec needs a big boost to bring it in line with the most stable, lucrative PvE activity û high sec mission running. There are other, reasonable, ideas to fix what I see as a glaring discrepancy. Some suggest just increasing rat bounties. Others suggest they should drop tags which have to be sold at DED stations. I like this solution the best as it gives the most benefit to those that hold space and would seek to improve it.
I have other ideas in mind to ôfixö mining and 0.0/lowsec mission running, which I may or may not share in the coming week. Suffice it to say that 0.0 mining is much worse today than when I began EVE in 2006, as are 0.0 missions in general.
No support to this. Boo to further consolidation and enrichment of existing 0,0 powerblocs through yet more POS construction.
But I strongly agree with your analysis and the first part of your solution. Lowsec and 0,0 need to become richer.
The biggest problem with your solution is that it makes mining an even worse choice for a non-macro player. Loot would rule the economy. But again, on balance I support. Combining the first part of your proposal with a proposal to reduce mission loot (while keeping mission income the same, by increasing mission rewards) and I would enthusiastically support
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Tiger's Spirit
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Posted - 2009.08.05 06:27:00 -
[40]
Not supported. Enough money have 0.0.
Risk ? Home system always blue. Look local noobs. Where is the most valuable minerals? Where is gas ? Where is commander items, wich have billion ISK prices ? In 0.0, nowhere else. So please, stop the cries.
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KosmikZA
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.05 06:32:00 -
[41]
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 10:07:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Plutonian You're not going to believe this, but some guy who lives in 0.0 and rats to earn isk is on the forums saying that ratting in 0.0 should be buffed.
Can't imagine why he'd be saying such a thing though...
Heaven forbid that fighting over conquerable space should have some individual benefits for the players involved. Lets all stay in highsec and run infinite L4s forever instead.
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Sertan Deras
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:32:00 -
[43]
Supported.
I think it's telling that despite living 99% of my EVE life in 0.0, I don't make money there. I have a neutral L4 mission runner alt that I use to make my money. I've done straight comparisons, and the money available in L4 missions at no risk to yourself is unreal relative to what is available to the average player out in 0.0.
Any talk of 0.0 having tons of money because of moon minerals is stupid. The average player doesn't have the money or infrastructure to run a profitable moon mining chain.
Using officers as an argument is probably the worst counter argument to this yet. officers are just a big lottery, your chances of finding one are one in a million, and if you do, there is a very large chance you'll get a crap mod nobody wants. Rarely does someone find a Draclira's Cap Recharger, or one of the other multi-billion ISK mods. For that matter, with people realizing it's really dumb to spend the money on that stuff to put on a Titan or Mothership that is just going to die if it gets tackled anyway, the demand for those crazy expensive mods is dwindling.
Ratting is the best way for the everyday player to go out and spend a few hours making money in 0.0. The problem is that it's simply not as profitable as the risk free L4 mission running available in high sec. If you have a well trained Raven character, and another alt to loot and salvage all the wrecks, you can make a crazy amount of ISK between salvage, loot, mission rewards and rat bounties.
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:37:00 -
[44]
Lets see. Would I rather
a) log in, run missions for 2 hours and make ~50m isk
or
b) log in, spend 6 hours clearing trash from belts in my harbinger/fighters combo and still not make 50m isk
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
mynnna
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:37:00 -
[45]
Supported.
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Val Streth
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:40:00 -
[46]
I wish ratting was more profitable. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One hand on their junk and the other pounding their keyboard throwing Rifter after Rifter at us every day. |
Kalrand
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:43:00 -
[47]
Agreed.
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Vile rat
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:48:00 -
[48]
Absolutely supported.
I'd like to piggyback on this with the idea that faction mods should have random variable values that could make them a little worse or a little better than their LP store equivalents. Would put potential value on them and make them a bit more interesting.
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torpedan
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:50:00 -
[49]
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Kachiko Sama
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:50:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Kachiko Sama on 05/08/2009 16:50:34 Hey look, a cogent and well argued idea based on the simple premise that greater risk should bring greater reward. Let's do that.
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Qlanth
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:54:00 -
[51]
I am supporting this because it has always been my argument that risk should reflect reward.
Empire mission runners have no reason to leave highsec newbie corps. They can make as much if not more money than any 0.0 player with absolutely no risk, period.
Meanwhile my ratting system sees roaming hostile gangs as high as 40-70 people roll through it on a daily basis. (Hello, Triumvirate, Brick Squad, and Leguina Romana)
Please fix this.
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Oneiros Endlesse
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:55:00 -
[52]
Supporting this topic.
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christmascaveman
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:55:00 -
[53]
Supporting this topic.
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Razel Krieg
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Posted - 2009.08.05 17:11:00 -
[54]
Supported
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Zastrow J
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Posted - 2009.08.05 17:48:00 -
[55]
I will raise this topic at the sunday CSM meeting
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SpiderWebMayhem
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 17:55:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit Not supported. Enough money have 0.0.
Risk ? Home system always blue. Look local noobs. Where is the most valuable minerals? Where is gas ? Where is commander items, wich have billion ISK prices ? In 0.0, nowhere else. So please, stop the cries.
In highsec you never have to stop mining or ratting if someone comes into local. In 0.0 you do. In highsec you never have to worry about your mining ship getting blown up, or your mission running CNR getting ganked. In 0.0 you do. These have drastic affects on isk per hour. Not to mention if you do get ganked, your isk:hour plummets to compensate for a new ship.
AFK-mining veldspar in highsec is safer and more profitable than ninja-mining high ends in 0.0. Gas is worthless because drugs are used by a tiny fraction of people. And the logistics to manufacture drugs is obscene.
The drop rate for Officer spawns is microscopic compared to the number of people living in 0.0. The average ratter living in nullsec may well never see an officer spawn for the entire time they play Eve.
And yet, nullsec players have to constantly live with fighting for their territory. While you merrily pilot L4 missions in Empire with no fear of safety, most nullsec players spend a good portion of their time defending their homeland instead of making money (which involves, gasp, losing ships and therefore money). And when they do have time to make money? They have to put up with options that are worse than L4 missions in highsec or multiboxing veldspar mining hulks. Why should nullsec players be forced to endure the stupid POS grind and fleet fights only for mediocre money making opportunities?
Supporting this heartily. A buff is needed for all nullsec players.
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Zhongchao84
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Posted - 2009.08.05 17:56:00 -
[57]
Supported |
Urich Fiano
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 18:04:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit Not supported. Enough money have 0.0.
Risk ? Home system always blue. Look local noobs. Where is the most valuable minerals? Where is gas ? Where is commander items, wich have billion ISK prices ? In 0.0, nowhere else. So please, stop the cries.
You should probably read the OP before you try responding to it.
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Urich Fiano
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.05 18:11:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Plutonian You're not going to believe this, but some guy who lives in 0.0 and rats to earn isk is on the forums saying that ratting in 0.0 should be buffed.
Can't imagine why he'd be saying such a thing though...
Yes, clearly the merits of an idea depend on who is proposing it.
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Avoida
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Posted - 2009.08.05 18:56:00 -
[60]
I'll support this because I'd too would like to see "true" security status fixed.
I'd also ask that you add one thing to your change: Faction complex escalations never escalate to systems outside regions inhabited by that faction. i.e. Gurista complexes having this stupid habit of escalating to systems out in Drone Regions.
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