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Apocrypha 1.5: Lvl 4 Epic Arcs and You

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CCP Tanis	Posted - 2009.08.12 18:12:00 - [1] Welcome to round two of our epic arc releases. We return from the depths of Atlanta to bring you 4 mighty problems that can only be solved with violence on your part. Things these arcs are/have: Empire specific. Each of the major empires get one arc. Each arc contains at least one path that will not take you out of that Empire's space. Level 4, Quality 16. Balanced with an eye toward total rewards. Missions against enemies with low/no bounties will have higher mission rewards to balance with their high-bounty cousins. Exclusive arc-end rewards. Each arc gives out an exclusive item, often exclusive to the ending your choices bring you to. Difficult deadspace battles. They can kick your face in. New arc illustrations for the Epic Journal (as well as updating the banner for Blood Stained Stars). More choice-based branching. What these arcs are not/do not: Mutually exclusive. Doing one arc does not prevent you from doing the others. Newbie friendly. You will get shot up. Mega-standings. Currently these arcs reward standing as one would normally expect from level 4s. We are pursuing solutions. The arcs themselves are as follows: Amarr Title: Right to Rule First Agent/Mission: Karde Romu in Kor-Azor Prime, "Aiding an Investigator" (Remote Offerable) Caldari Title: Penumbra First Agent/Mission: Aursa Kunivuri in Josameto, "The Intermediary" Gallente Title: Syndication First Agent/Mission: Roineron Aviviere in Dodixie, "Impetus" (Remote Offerable) Minmatar Title: Wildfire First Agent/Mission: Arsten Takalo in Frarn, "A Demonstration" As always, questions/comments most welcome. ____________________________ I break thingsÖ CCP Tanis - EVE Quality Assurance\|EVE Live Team CCP Games

Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.08.12 18:24:00 - [2] Do those arcs feature anti-empire objectives or are they 'standings-safe'? There are people that like to stay on the good side of all empire factions. -------- Ideas for: Mining

CCP Big Dumb Object	Posted - 2009.08.12 18:39:00 - [3] Originally by: Abrazzar Do those arcs feature anti-empire objectives or are they 'standings-safe'? Actual standing loss for fighting faction ships will be infrequent. Most missions have been designed to override the usual NPC-kill penalties. Players should see minimal standing hits after running an arc. Exception: The Amarr arc "Right to Rule" has the player shooting the crap out of Sansha in the first third, but there is an option to turn that around before the end.

Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.12 18:45:00 - [4] Originally by: Abrazzar Do those arcs feature anti-empire objectives or are they 'standings-safe'? There are people that like to stay on the good side of all empire factions. I can't see your point... I too want to be at good side of all empire faction (+Angels if possible) and the main problem... that agents are 4 lvl quality 16 (different corps i suppose) so u actually need 6.8 Faction standing to do Epic Arc... How u suppose to get that without going to bad side with enemy empire factions? ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Aranis Nax Minmatar Seraphim Blades	Posted - 2009.08.12 20:02:00 - [5] Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object Originally by: Abrazzar Do those arcs feature anti-empire objectives or are they 'standings-safe'? Actual standing loss for fighting faction ships will be infrequent. Most missions have been designed to override the usual NPC-kill penalties. Players should see minimal standing hits after running an arc. Exception: The Amarr arc "Right to Rule" has the player shooting the crap out of Sansha in the first third, but there is an option to turn that around before the end. are the arcs safe to run for pilots who are shoot on sight with enemy factions? Like Republic pilots who are -5 to amarr and ammatar (and not much better with caldari), are they OK to run the minmatar epic?
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.08.12 20:05:00 - [6] Originally by: Trimutius III How u suppose to get that without going to bad side with enemy empire factions? Don't know that it would actually be possible short of simply shooting NPCs in belts only. Being that the Empires are in a state of cold war with one another, managing to tread carefully between is something that sounds like it would be necessarily hard.
Englebert Humperdinck	Posted - 2009.08.12 20:25:00 - [7] Before todays test patch, i tried the caldari mission and got the standings refused message off agent: hopefully this was because it was unfinished or cos im a chump somehow. Just so im sure, it is faction standing for epic missions right? as the corporation the agent is in is fairly obscure, and probably not many mission runners would have standings for them. On my way to test now. Any chance that we could get a sisi standings boost to the relevant corps, so we can test all races missions for you? Good work as usual CCP, ignore the whiners, theyre just most vocal...
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.12 21:23:00 - [8] Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 21:26:01 Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 21:25:32 Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 21:24:10 Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 21:22:59 Originally by: Regat Kozovv Originally by: Trimutius III How u suppose to get that without going to bad side with enemy empire factions? Don't know that it would actually be possible short of simply shooting NPCs in belts only. Being that the Empires are in a state of cold war with one another, managing to tread carefully between is something that sounds like it would be necessarily hard. I can't understand... How will u get +6.8 to Amarrs by shooting NPC in belts??? Can u explain what did u mean... Let me explain what i mean: - U need to do Epic Arc for Amarrs for example - then u need +6.8 standing to Amarr faction, since there are many agents from different corporation lvl 4 quality 16 - If u want to make +6.8 to Amarr u need to do a lot of storyline missions. - If u'll try to get +6.8 without spoiling standing to Minmatars then u'll pretty nice will have less then -2.0 somewhere about +5.0-5.5 (even if take diplomacy) - If u have less then -2.0 to Minmatars u can't do missions for them and sooner or later u will spoil relationship with them to -5.0 (especially Epic Arc will little bit do it) - If u try to keep Minmatar standing at -2.0 most likely u will have Amarr standing not more then 5.0-5.5... I tried all that myself... (except having +6.8 as i said i couldn't keep -2.0 or higher to Minmatars with further growth of Amarr standing) So... Oops... :) I'm not really bother about that, i will not do Epic Arc and that's it... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Krem daBrut Marquie-X Corp Atropos.	Posted - 2009.08.12 21:44:00 - [9] Nice, with the latest patch its now clear how to find the Medal to complete the first minmatar epic mission.
Aranis Nax Minmatar Seraphim Blades	Posted - 2009.08.12 23:06:00 - [10] Where do we post feedback on these lvl 4's? Anyway so far I've done the very first part of the minmatar arc and I'm a bit worried about the way you get the medal. You find the tag in an exploration site that has npc's with about 3M in bounties in a constellation of 0.9-1.0 systems(Sveipar, Pator is one system). Isn't that a bit too easy as a source of ISK, even ignoring the tags? I don't know the spawn rate but if it's respawning fast(within an hour of despawning) I think it would be too easy to make ISK "automatically". Why not remove bounties from the rats, or use rats with no bounties, in that site? The only goal of the plex is to seed the tags, not act as an ISK faucet, right? More feedback might follow once I get further along. But I think this is pretty important.

Sade Onyx	Posted - 2009.08.13 00:43:00 - [11] You make no mention about the security of the systems that these missions take you to. Will they go to low sec?
something somethingdark	Posted - 2009.08.13 02:22:00 - [12] id love to give it a whirl unfortunately i try not to get shot by npc navys so my faction standings arnt too high and my corp standings with strange unused corps is well unexistant for the sake of testing can the minimum standings be lowered/removed ?
Jana Tanaka Caldari Tanaka Industries Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.13 02:41:00 - [13] It seems at least the Gallente arc takes us into lowsec. I did not mind lowsec activities before Apocrypha, exploring in hostile space was fun. Yet with the current scanning system, specifically the loss of the deadspace bonus to signal strength, missioning of any kind in lowsec that requires more than a frigate or maybe cruiser sized hull is simply suicidal. If the Arcs lead into lowsec, beyond courier missions or combat ones that could be acomplished in an Assault Frigate, HAC or Recon, nearly on one will run them. Also the systems the missions take place in should be randomly selected from a pool. If the arcs take place in a limited number of fixed systems, those will be 24/7 camped by hordes of pirates, looking for juicy pod ransoms or tears. As a result nearly no one would run them. Unfortunately I cannot test this out first hand myself at the moment, due to time constraints.
ToTheCore Angels.	Posted - 2009.08.13 06:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Jana Tanaka It seems at least the Gallente arc takes us into lowsec. I did not mind lowsec activities before Apocrypha, exploring in hostile space was fun. Yet with the current scanning system, specifically the loss of the deadspace bonus to signal strength, missioning of any kind in lowsec that requires more than a frigate or maybe cruiser sized hull is simply suicidal. If the Arcs lead into lowsec, beyond courier missions or combat ones that could be acomplished in an Assault Frigate, HAC or Recon, nearly on one will run them. Also the systems the missions take place in should be randomly selected from a pool. If the arcs take place in a limited number of fixed systems, those will be 24/7 camped by hordes of pirates, looking for juicy pod ransoms or tears. As a result nearly no one would run them. Unfortunately I cannot test this out first hand myself at the moment, due to time constraints. They call it a Massively MULTIPLAYER game for a reason, you know. Bring friends with you if you're afraid to get ganked by people hunting mission runners. Or, use the new implants plus ECCM to make yourself unable to be probed. As for the systems, I think that most of them will be camped by people looking for easy kills anyway. Again, the suggested course of action would be to bring friends with you if you don't want to risk getting killed. --- BattleClinic sigs aren't allowed now, Zymurgist?
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.13 07:01:00 - [15] Edited by: Trimutius III on 13/08/2009 07:01:28 Originally by: Jana Tanaka It seems at least the Gallente arc takes us into lowsec. There is different ways in Epic Arcs... Some of them may lead even to 0.0 secs as i already heard, as CCP Tamer said there is at least one way, but nobody said that all of them are not leading out of empire space... Quote: Yet with the current scanning system, specifically the loss of the deadspace bonus to signal strength, missioning of any kind in lowsec that requires more than a frigate or maybe cruiser sized hull is simply suicidal. LOL What? Have u tried to scan down BS on a mission? I have done that once... It takes something like minutes... So what do you do, u take ur direct scanner 360 degree and scan with filter disabled, and look scan results for probes (Combat and Deep Space Probes) As soon as u see at least one in 4-8 AU (maximum direct scanner radius is about 14 AU) U just warp to safe spot and turn on ur cloaking device, until hostiles are gone... Quote: If the Arcs lead into lowsec, beyond courier missions or combat ones that could be acomplished in an Assault Frigate, HAC or Recon, nearly on one will run them. Once i saw a neutral running missions in Navy Raven in 0.0 sec, it was after Apocrypha, and believe me, scanning for probes now really works, it takes at least 1-2 minutes after u'll see probes on scanner and before they will scan u down, and this is pretty enough to warp out if u are in BS. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.08.13 07:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Trimutius III Edited by: Trimutius III on 13/08/2009 07:01:28 Originally by: Jana Tanaka It seems at least the Gallente arc takes us into lowsec. There is different ways in Epic Arcs... Some of them may lead even to 0.0 secs as i already heard, as CCP Tamer said there is at least one way, but nobody said that all of them are not leading out of empire space... Quote: Yet with the current scanning system, specifically the loss of the deadspace bonus to signal strength, missioning of any kind in lowsec that requires more than a frigate or maybe cruiser sized hull is simply suicidal. LOL What? Have u tried to scan down BS on a mission? I have done that once... It takes something like minutes... So what do you do, u take ur direct scanner 360 degree and scan with filter disabled, and look scan results for probes (Combat and Deep Space Probes) As soon as u see at least one in 4-8 AU (maximum direct scanner radius is about 14 AU) U just warp to safe spot and turn on ur cloaking device, until hostiles are gone... Quote: If the Arcs lead into lowsec, beyond courier missions or combat ones that could be acomplished in an Assault Frigate, HAC or Recon, nearly on one will run them. Once i saw a neutral running missions in Navy Raven in 0.0 sec, it was after Apocrypha, and believe me, scanning for probes now really works, it takes at least 1-2 minutes after u'll see probes on scanner and before they will scan u down, and this is pretty enough to warp out if u are in BS. After seeing a neutral on directional, I'll have him probed out usually in 30 ses. He may or may not spot my probes that are in his range for 10 secs :) _________________ - Rivqua - --- R.E.P.O. ---
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.13 07:40:00 - [17] Edited by: Trimutius III on 13/08/2009 07:41:17 Originally by: Rivqua After seeing a neutral on directional, I'll have him probed out usually in 30 ses. He may or may not spot my probes that are in his range for 10 secs :) Ohh u're right... i have some trouble finding one BS because it was out of derictional scan range from any object (sometimes missions are faraway) But it may be found fast in some situations. But i have experience of warping out in my Dominix when somebody tries to scan me down on my mission, and i succeded that several times... Just as soon as there are hostiles in local i spam my direct scanner and if i see probes i begin aligning scoop drones and warp out to POS... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.13 08:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Trimutius III - If u'll try to get +6.8 without spoiling standing to Minmatars then u'll pretty nice will have less then -2.0 somewhere about +5.0-5.5 (even if take diplomacy) My alt currently standing are (modified by skills): - Amarr 5.87 - Caldari 4.48 - Gallente 4.48 - Minmatar 3.26 It become harder as standing grow but you can stay in the positive with all factions and get to 6.8 with one if you don't run missions that require killing other empire factions members.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.13 08:26:00 - [19] Originally by: ToTheCore Originally by: Jana Tanaka It seems at least the Gallente arc takes us into lowsec. I did not mind lowsec activities before Apocrypha, exploring in hostile space was fun. Yet with the current scanning system, specifically the loss of the deadspace bonus to signal strength, missioning of any kind in lowsec that requires more than a frigate or maybe cruiser sized hull is simply suicidal. If the Arcs lead into lowsec, beyond courier missions or combat ones that could be acomplished in an Assault Frigate, HAC or Recon, nearly on one will run them. Also the systems the missions take place in should be randomly selected from a pool. If the arcs take place in a limited number of fixed systems, those will be 24/7 camped by hordes of pirates, looking for juicy pod ransoms or tears. As a result nearly no one would run them. Unfortunately I cannot test this out first hand myself at the moment, due to time constraints. They call it a Massively MULTIPLAYER game for a reason, you know. Bring friends with you if you're afraid to get ganked by people hunting mission runners. Or, use the new implants plus ECCM to make yourself unable to be probed. As for the systems, I think that most of them will be camped by people looking for easy kills anyway. Again, the suggested course of action would be to bring friends with you if you don't want to risk getting killed. They call it Turkey shooting for a reason you know. Bring friends don't work if the enemies know perfectly where you are going.
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.13 09:07:00 - [20] Edited by: Trimutius III on 13/08/2009 09:09:27 Edited by: Trimutius III on 13/08/2009 09:07:30 Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Trimutius III - If u'll try to get +6.8 without spoiling standing to Minmatars then u'll pretty nice will have less then -2.0 somewhere about +5.0-5.5 (even if take diplomacy) My alt currently standing are (modified by skills): - Amarr 5.87 - Caldari 4.48 - Gallente 4.48 - Minmatar 3.26 It become harder as standing grow but you can stay in the positive with all factions and get to 6.8 with one if you don't run missions that require killing other empire factions members. Hmm maybe i'm too lazy... Or maybe 3 storyline missions for Angels spoiled picture a little... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius

Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.13 11:07:00 - [21] Edited by: Durzel on 13/08/2009 11:07:41 Originally by: Venkul Mul They call it Turkey shooting for a reason you know. Bring friends don't work if the enemies know perfectly where you are going. And exactly where you're going to be coming from. When will CCP learn that most people aren't going to take their mission ships into lowsec on a good day, let alone to a static system that is guaranteed to be camped. Ah well Level 5 missions redux.
MuffinsRevenger EmpiresMod	Posted - 2009.08.13 11:55:00 - [22] Smells like whoever is going to bring the most remote-boosted hic's are score quite a few easy mission runner kills :D Should seriously reconsider that Mr ark-developers, because it's going to make those particular paths enitrely useless and mostly unused
Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.13 12:09:00 - [23] One thing that bothers me a bit about the first epic arc (the sisters of eve one that is newbie friendly) is that anyone who joins factional warfare early on, something you have mentioned that you would encourage new players to do, is blocked from doing the arc, unless they quit FW before their standings get too bad. It sounds like you guys had this issue in mind when designing the new ones. No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.
Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.08.13 12:44:00 - [24] Terrible about 0.0/lowsec thing. CCP if you want that to workout you need: - random mission system (and I mean really random, not like 2/3 systems). - sleeper AI in missions so NPCs can target and fire the aggressor. - change scanning so it's not so easy. this or a combination of these, no one is going to form a blob to break a camp so you can run your stupid mission. an other option is missions to have several deadspace gates so you have time to prepare or warp out, but IMo teh sleeper AI would be the cool thing, just if the mission is worth it.

CCP Big Dumb Object	Posted - 2009.08.13 13:24:00 - [25] Lowsec missions are something we debated about internally. We understand lowsec is a risky prospect, particularly when your character isn't kitted out specifically for that playstyle. However, it is a major element of EVE. We wanted to have that option available to players. So yes, lowsec missions are in. But we've made two design decisions that we hope will mititgate the problem elements. 1) The vast majority of lowsec missions are tied to particular branches. These branches focus on the more legally dubious options available to the player, making lowsec a natural choice. However, the player will most often be presented with an explicit choice between this and a safer--if lower paying--hisec branch. 2) Lowsec complex sites for these arcs are designed to be completable in interceptors or assault frigs. Get in, make some pretty explosions, get out. These are still level 4 in difficulty, so although you won't be fighting fleets of battleships, you will have a difficult fight for your ship class ahead of you.

Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.08.13 13:46:00 - [26] Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object 2) Lowsec complex sites for these arcs are designed to be completable in interceptors or assault frigs. Get in, make some pretty explosions, get out. These are still level 4 in difficulty, so although you won't be fighting fleets of battleships, you will have a difficult fight for your ship class ahead of you. This soudns cool, thanks for the answer.
Jana Tanaka Caldari Tanaka Industries Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.13 13:58:00 - [27] Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object Lowsec missions are something we debated about internally... 1) The vast majority of lowsec missions are tied to particular branches... 2) Lowsec complex sites for these arcs are designed to be completable in interceptors or assault frigs... Perfect, thank you for the heads ups.
Tamahra Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch	Posted - 2009.08.13 15:35:00 - [28] the question that strikes me the most are each one of the epic arcs repeatable?
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.13 15:45:00 - [29] hey hey thanks for the sticky and i'll quickly ninja some observations about the Gallente Arc The Low sec option was good and at least had some thoughts to it. the second time i had a choice (low road > 3 option branch) the low sec option was flawed as i found that to get to the plantation i didnt actually need to go into low sec i simply found a decent route, the pipe route was well thought out and shouldnt initially cause troubles. i will agree though that the mmissions are waaaay to specific and the low sec entry and exit points being static will put people off. the gallente arc asked me or at least caused me to kill minmatar. this dont make any sense and while i didnt get any faction hits thankfully i just dont ever want to kill or shoot minmatars or gallentes. the cross region thing should be mentioned in the mission notes as again standings have a major impact on playstyle and unfortunatly will cut off another portion of the mission. with no warning whatsoever its instafailreject :/ if there is a specific arc that leads purely in same faction space can that be included in the notes ? the low road option was fun in a stealth bomber (1st part) but the second one aint gonna be done in a af unless you got high skills :) the problem i found was that again the gate was shiptype restricted but not warned about. going into low sec and getting the ship type wrong will ** plenty of poeple off. with the various shutoff points for players some details on these Q's ould be helpfull :) [sugarontop]please[/sugarontop] can i end the arc and restart at any time ? not just remove from the journal. especially if i was cut off and was sent to scumarr space and i had to fail. my whole arc is then over :/ if i complete the arc what are my options for retries and going a different route ? sorta an additional from the first question. if i complete my arc and found i had a taste for more and wanted that other branches shiny do i have to wait to reaccess the agent. even a short turnaround time sucks as doing the arc multiple times could take more than a few months Do i have to finish it or now i rescued the kid im happy that this story has ended. i would happily end here tbh how do i stop the arc ?no bounties and no lastly i noticed that the branching looks to be alot better and indepth do you guys is that shiny toy at the end of each arc only at the end of each arc ? with no bounties and no LP ! the incentive to get to the end of the arc is lessened. maybe at the end of each chapter theres a smaller reward. i killed the head of the pator 6 and he dropped crap (1x 1400 1x armor named hardener) last bug/problem the agent popups and the information windows jump right out at you. pretty cool interaction but 1. the window takes time to read and im getting agressed whilst doing so :/ i cant minimise the window ad read in a bit so i miss the story. the info popups are also good to read but i cant expand the window and the text is to big so i have to scroll and again i cant minimise it and read it when im not getting ass**ed by npc's. i wanna read the story and get drawn in but its difficult when the windows arent User friendly. a possible workaround for the standings boost for epic arc's culd be that at certain chapter/story points your given a inportant mission that directly affects your standings just like a normal storyline does. it adds an incentive for carrying on and could give a better reward for going further down the rabbit hole or choosing the harder branch :) so far ive enjoyed it and only been fustrated a couple of times :) good job guys Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.13 15:58:00 - [30] Edited by: Durzel on 13/08/2009 16:02:00 Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object 2) Lowsec complex sites for these arcs are designed to be completable in interceptors or assault frigs. Get in, make some pretty explosions, get out. These are still level 4 in difficulty, so although you won't be fighting fleets of battleships, you will have a difficult fight for your ship class ahead of you. The problem with that, if I may be so bold, is that mission runners never use interceptors or assault frigs, why would they? Hardcore mission runners grind up to battleships and that's what they live in forevermore. I'd be surprised if the majority of people to whom the arcs would be interesting probably don't even have the skills trained for interceptors/assault frigs. I'm not saying it's not logical to do the missions in smaller ships where possible, but mission runners aren't by a large an amazingly bright bunch - and it's not like the game really penalises them for using anything other than a battleship for all L4s anyway. Furthermore if you don't know what to expect in a mission because you've never done it before, would you take something that could easily pop in most L4 missions? Would someone whos never run Worlds Collide before take a ship they are familiar with and knowledgeable of its tanking capabilities, or a ship they never usually fly and know wont stand up to too much punishment? I appreciate the logic of bad choices taking you to bad locations but the reality of it is that assuming these locations are fixed, or even taken from a relatlvely small pool, those systems will be gate-camped 23/7. Even if that weren't the case I'd wager most hardcore mission runners simply wouldn't enter a lowsec system under any circumstances.



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